★ np: SS UU Stage 8 - Highway to Hell

[Twilight]

Sticky Web

I've been using web teams a good amount on the ladder and have run into a couple more of them as of late. I think they are in a pretty cool spot right now despite a lot of Pokemon like Zeraora running Heavy-Duty Boots. Araquanid and Shuckle have been the main Sticky Web users that I've used or ran into with Ribombee still being a viable option on a couple of teams. Shuckle is a pretty nice Webs user simply because compressing rocks on these types of teams opens up a lot more options.

I've been using these three a good amount on webs as the premier abusers. Thundurus-T providing an Electric immunity helps with playing around Zeraora on these teams + its issues with Speed unlike Thundurus-I is mitigated with Sticky Web support. Gengar is one of the strongest Ghost-types we have now that Blacephalon is gone + it can spin block against Tentacruel fairly well. Bisharp is mainly there as the Defiant abuser and is insanely strong after a boost as Sucker Punch can pick off quite a few Pokemon that resist the hit with minimal chip. The last two slots are honestly filler but I've had success with the above few Pokemon but there are plenty of other offensive threats to opt for.

Weathers

Just wanted to give a more thorough opinion of weather as I think all of them are fine in the tier right now. Sun teams are really reliant on Venusaur to function well otherwise they fall short. Yeah, a Choice locked Charizard, Victini, etc. hits extremely hard under Sun but I haven't found this particularly difficult to play around + these Pokemon are easy to revenge kill. A lot of teams are using priority, which does make handling Venusaur easier, hence why I was using Tapu Lele on the above version. Arctozolt is a pretty fun Pokemon but it is definitely not as potent as Dracozolt was. There are only so many ways you can go about a hail team but it more or less becomes Aurora Veil + Arctozolt (and Alolan-Sandslash if you wanna use that). I still find Drizzle/rain teams to be the worst out of the weather options. There are so many splashable checks to rain teams that it struggles to be consistent. My version is quite bulky but I've seen many attempts at more HO variants and they still have similar issues. A big reason for this is also because Politoed is rather bad and can't provide too much outside of clicking Scald.

A couple of sets/Pokemon I've been using right now

SpD Togekiss

Togekiss @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 56 SpD / 204 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Thunder Wave
- Defog / Nasty Plot
- Roost

Credit to Hogg who shared this set on Discord but I wanted to give more light to it. This bulkier Togekiss is a good pivot into Pokemon like Volcarona, Latias, and Hydreigon. It primarily functions as a Thunder Wave spammer, a move that I think every Togekiss needs to be running right now because it struggles to make much progress. I haven't found it particularly easy to fit removal on a fair amount of teams but this is a fairly good one. Hogg made the spread to outspeed a paralyzed Volcarona at +1.

Despite there being a lot more checks to Keldeo like Primarina, Latias, Tapu Bulu, and Azumarill I think it is probably in the best position it has been in for a while. I'd argue that it is the best Choice Scarf user in the tier being capable of revenge killing foes like Volcarona, Gengar, Salamence, and a weakened Alakazam. Choice Specs sets are also great and strong enough to 2HKO offensive Tapu Bulu and Azumarill with Hydro Pump after Stealth Rock. Flip Turn being a nice tool to let Keldeo pivot out on all the new switch-ins we gained with DLC drops. It's typing also having a lot of defensive utility to switch into foes like Scizor, Jirachi, and Crawdaunt makes it one of the better picks in the meta rn.

I haven't found anything else to be really broken outside of the four Pokemon banned, but I do still believe Gyarados is borderline stupid. I have seen some decent means to revenge kill it though like Thunder Punch Jirachi and Thunderbolt Tapu Lele on Choice Scarf sets. I saw a couple of Glastrier outside of TR with Avalanche capable of stomaching a hit and revenging Gyarados pretty well.

 

[Glitchwood High]

Sticky Web
View attachment 292208
I've been using web teams a good amount on the ladder and have run into a couple more of them as of late. I think they are in a pretty cool spot right now despite a lot of Pokemon like Zeraora running Heavy-Duty Boots. Araquanid and Shuckle have been the main Sticky Web users that I've used or ran into with Ribombee still being a viable option on a couple of teams. Shuckle is a pretty nice Webs user simply because compressing rocks on these types of teams opens up a lot more options.

I've been using these three a good amount on webs as the premier abusers. Thundurus-T providing an Electric immunity helps with playing around Zeraora on these teams + its issues with Speed unlike Thundurus-I is mitigated with Sticky Web support. Gengar is one of the strongest Ghost-types we have now that Blacephalon is gone + it can spin block against Tentacruel fairly well. Bisharp is mainly there as the Defiant abuser and is insanely strong after a boost as Sucker Punch can pick off quite a few Pokemon that resist the hit with minimal chip. The last two slots are honestly filler but I've had success with the above few Pokemon but there are plenty of other offensive threats to opt for.

Weathers
View attachment 292209
Just wanted to give a more thorough opinion of weather as I think all of them are fine in the tier right now. Sun teams are really reliant on Venusaur to function well otherwise they fall short. Yeah, a Choice locked Charizard, Victini, etc. hits extremely hard under Sun but I haven't found this particularly difficult to play around + these Pokemon are easy to revenge kill. A lot of teams are using priority, which does make handling Venusaur easier, hence why I was using Tapu Lele on the above version. Arctozolt is a pretty fun Pokemon but it is definitely not as potent as Dracozolt was. There are only so many ways you can go about a hail team but it more or less becomes Aurora Veil + Arctozolt (and Alolan-Sandslash if you wanna use that). I still find Drizzle/rain teams to be the worst out of the weather options. There are so many splashable checks to rain teams that it struggles to be consistent. My version is quite bulky but I've seen many attempts at more HO variants and they still have similar issues. A big reason for this is also because Politoed is rather bad and can't provide too much outside of clicking Scald.

A couple of sets/Pokemon I've been using right now

SpD Togekiss

Togekiss @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 56 SpD / 204 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Thunder Wave
- Defog / Nasty Plot
- Roost

Credit to Hogg who shared this set on Discord but I wanted to give more light to it. This bulkier Togekiss is a good pivot into Pokemon like Volcarona, Latias, and Hydreigon. It primarily functions as a Thunder Wave spammer, a move that I think every Togekiss needs to be running right now because it struggles to make much progress. I haven't found it particularly easy to fit removal on a fair amount of teams but this is a fairly good one. Hogg made the spread to outspeed a paralyzed Volcarona at +1.

Despite there being a lot more checks to Keldeo like Primarina, Latias, Tapu Bulu, and Azumarill I think it is probably in the best position it has been in for a while. I'd argue that it is the best Choice Scarf user in the tier being capable of revenge killing foes like Volcarona, Gengar, Salamence, and a weakened Alakazam. Choice Specs sets are also great and strong enough to 2HKO offensive Tapu Bulu and Azumarill with Hydro Pump after Stealth Rock. Flip Turn being a nice tool to let Keldeo pivot out on all the new switch-ins we gained with DLC drops. It's typing also having a lot of defensive utility to switch into foes like Scizor, Jirachi, and Crawdaunt makes it one of the better picks in the meta rn.

I haven't found anything else to be really broken outside of the four Pokemon banned, but I do still believe Gyarados is borderline stupid. I have seen some decent means to revenge kill it though like Thunder Punch Jirachi and Thunderbolt Tapu Lele on Choice Scarf sets. I saw a couple of Glastrier outside of TR with Avalanche capable of stomaching a hit and revenging Gyarados pretty well.

The sticky web team has a problem with boots but I think you understated the issue a tiny bit; I run into plenty of teams where nearly every other Pokemon has boots, is flying, or has levitate. From the looks of it Bisharp is your only Pokemon with knockoff, meaning that it's not going to be easy getting rid of all the boots flying everywhere. It's an interesting playstyle but what do you do if 5/6 mons on the other team don't care about it?

The sun team posted is pretty cool, although as you mentioned without venusaur they suffer badly. Venu in general is nigh-impossible to deal with on the switchin, although against sun I just keep incineroar alive 24/7 and force switchouts.

The hail team...kek. I'm not sure if it's really that good of a playstyle, honestly. Alolan sandlash is kind of shitty even with slush rush active, and arctozolt gets revenge killed by pretty much all priority. Ninetales-A also being forced to run light clay means your weather doesn't stay up nearly as much as you want it too, and you don't want your fragile ninetales to be coming in often.

Rain teams really took a fat one with the loss of barreskewda (and, to a lesser extent, nidoking). I wouldn't say they're worse than hail but definitely a lot less consistent than sun. Rain's main advantage is flexibility; sun teams are very rigid in comparison to rain. It's just rain teams, no matter, are pretty weak. They can patch any chink in their armor but only have so many patches.

The Togekiss set seems interesting but it's seems like complete chow for the rotoms, thundurus, zeraora, magnezone, etc. Probably needs some work because I see those Pokemon a lot.

Keldeo as the best scarf user? Interesting! I personally don't know what to think of it, but water/fighting is pretty hard to fight back against. I think Jirachi is also solid as it spread paralysis everywhere, is a decent pivot, and has healing wish. I see a lot more subcm than scarf, tho.

Gyarados can be pretty stupid if it gets going. Although I don't see it as considerably more stupid than Salamence.

 

[PlusC]

With Web support CM Keldeo is a beast. It's really hard to check offensively when you're slower than it and it's behind a sub.

 

[Twilight]

The sticky web team has a problem with boots but I think you understated the issue a tiny bit; I run into plenty of teams where nearly every other Pokemon has boots, is flying, or has levitate. From the looks of it Bisharp is your only Pokemon with knockoff, meaning that it's not going to be easy getting rid of all the boots flying everywhere. It's an interesting playstyle but what do you do if 5/6 mons on the other team don't care about it?

Well if this is the case then you simply don't prioritize setting up Sticky Web. Araquanid is a Pokemon that isn't complete deadweight compared to Shuckle for example, though setting up SR as a lead is fine enough. The listed Pokemon I was using don't require you to have Sticky Web up to get their job done in wallbreaking, it just makes it easier. You have to play smarter around more offensive threats if you are in a scenario where you can't set them up (too many boots or levitate Pokemon) or they get removed via Spin/Defog.

As for a response to the Togekiss comment, yeah it has issues with Electric-types but that is where teambuilding comes into play. Most of the ones you listed also lack recovery. If Zeraora has to take 20% chip every time it switches in then that is decent enough imo. Togekiss usually always has this issue unless it can afford to run Flamethrower, which is only hitting Magnezone from your list, and without SpA investment it can only do so much against Steel-types. That's just how the Pokemon functions, you can always double switch in these cases for momentum too.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

https://pokepast.es/b73e27f290387002

So this team I have been using, is the CB victini team. Obviously the main abuser is victini and everyone else supports victini via setting up hazards, removing rocks from your side of the field, pivoting it in via volt switch. Basically everything that victini is "walled by" (means something that can take 1 hit and retaliate or you are a phys def rhyperior who can take 2 hits) is abused by its other teammates, like rhyperior is easy entry for tangrowth and rotom who can hit it with 4x super effective stabs or knock it off, or something such as hydreigon is easy entry for zeraora because it doesn't fear the ohko from scarf and it just needs 1 rounds of rocks to put it into range for Close combat to kill. Kommo-o job is to serve as a rocker, I didn't want to use rhyperior due to exploitable weaknesses, Hippowdon because I don't want to screw victini over with even more sand chip hindering it, and diancie because I don't generally like diancies slow nature, also I needed a dark resist. Celesteela is the main special wall towards pokemon like hydreigon without flamethrower, salamence barring fire fang (slightly more common these days), and a decent check to tapu lele due to resisting its stabs. I feel that this team may not last since victini is a total nuke and has 0 switches and only has temporary ones in swampert, rhyperior, rotom wash and heat, and diancie

 

[Glitchwood High]

View attachment 292219So this team I have been using, is the CB victini team. Obviously the main abuser is victini and everyone else supports victini via setting up hazards, removing rocks from your side of the field, pivoting it in via volt switch. Basically everything that victini is "walled by" (means something that can take 1 hit and retaliate or you are a phys def rhyperior who can take 2 hits) is abused by its other teammates, like rhyperior is easy entry for tangrowth and rotom who can hit it with 4x super effective stabs or knock it off, or something such as hydreigon is easy entry for zeraora because it doesn't fear the ohko from scarf and it just needs 1 rounds of rocks to put it into range for Close combat to kill. Kommo-o job is to serve as a rocker, I didn't want to use rhyperior due to exploitable weaknesses, Hippowdon because I don't want to screw victini over with even more sand chip hindering it, and diancie because I don't generally like diancies slow nature, also I needed a dark resist. Celesteela is the main special wall towards pokemon like hydreigon without flamethrower, salamence barring fire fang (slightly more common these days), and a decent check to tapu lele due to resisting its stabs. I feel that this team may not last since victini is a total nuke and has 0 switches and only has temporary ones in swampert, rhyperior, rotom wash and heat, and diancie

Victini doesn't quite like Incineroar switching in to it and none of the Pokemon on your team appreciate losing a knockoff to it. Aside from that this seems a like pretty solid team. Not sure why you have defog rotom-w and kommo-o as a rocker on the same team, pretty bad anti-synergy. I'd suggest making kommo-o a non-rocker or just putting something else in it's place altogether.

Also worth noting the only pivot move in your team is vswitch, so Thundurus and opposing Zeraora are going to make things tougher. Otherwise good job, I like it!

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

Well, it carried me to top 16, yeah my mons dont like their lefties getting knocked off and usually the most expendable member of my team is rotom wash when it comes to reliance on items, pain split is a decent recovery option and it helps, yeah volt switch is my only pivoting move but you can threaten a pump on thundurus and zeraora, while zeraora can knock their boots of and just make it harder for them to switch in. Kommo-o and rotom are there to prevent opposing v create nukes while performing their roles fairly well and is worth to mention that thundurus-t and zeraora aren't exactly common in my eyes, so I usually don't prep, but i have tangrowth to hard wall them both it comes down to that. Also...

-1 252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 248 HP / 108 Def Incineroar: 118-140 (30 - 35.6%) -- 32.2% chance to 3HKO

Yes it isn't a 2HKO, but considering u can just switch out and repeat the process while incineroar struggles with recovery it isn't easy to wear down to 2hko it, since most incin aren't ev'd to outspeed victini at -1 and you can just 2 turn nuke it. Plus, incineroar are used very aggressively to force opponents out. Also you can just trick it, snatch the boots for yourself while it is choice locked and is now taking rocks damage.

 

[KSt3ve]

I would like to have the opinion of the people here on Aegislash, I find that these 3 sets: Choice Band, Choice Specs and SubToxic are really problematic for the tier at the moment. The Choice Specs and Choice Band sets force 50/50 which can easily go wrong for the opponent, who is perfectly obliged to lose a pokemon when he doesn't know the Aegislash set.
I'm going to tell you a little bit about my impressions of this pokemon.

Choice Band

Aegislash @ Choice Band
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Claw
- Iron Head
- Close Combat
- Shadow Sneak

This set has no solid answer, with the combo Iron head + Shadow Claw + Close Combat, Aegislash is able to hit the whole third. To stop him, you either have to be a genius and succeed all his 50/50, or have a very solid pokemon on the physique, like Def Tangrowth, or Def Skarmory :

252+ Atk Choice Band Aegislash-Blade Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 141-166 (34.9 - 41%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Aegislash-Blade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 130-153 (38.9 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
But neither of them wants to take Shadow ball !

I did a lot of games where Aegislash came for free on Spdef Tapu Bulu, and my opponent had to in Victini (or another pokemon that is not a check to Aegislash) on an Iron Head/Flash Cannon to not lose a pokemon.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1225522320-kyqoy3fv2v1m1g5p4m3pqdhvhyus5vfpw

I only have a replay with this set, on the other hand, I play this set often and it is very, even too powerful for the tier, in my opinion.

Choice Specs

Aegislash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Shadow Sneak
- Toxic

I find the Choice Specs set easier to counter, but also much more threatening than the Choice Band set. With 2 moves capable of lowering the Spdef, no pokemon can really stay on Aegislash.
Aegislash's strength is his ability to fool his opponent. Thinking of playing against a set choice band, what was the surprise of my opponent to lose his defensive wall on a shadow ball.
Here are some replays that show how Aegislash is able to pressure easily and to come freely on a lot of pokemon of the tier thanks to its bulk

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1219244094-o90flw94byab9a99sg0z4h1nzx6o03dpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1225363452
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1224162824

Sub + Toxic

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- King's Shield
- Shadow Ball
- Toxic
- Substitute

This horrible set is capable of 6-0 a lot of team, only some pokemon like zarude jungle heal, Bisharp, (maybe Celestila and Chansey can totally free on this set. On the other hand, once under sub, thanks to his bulk and his access to King's Shield, Aegislash can totally win by himself, being able to drug the whole opposing team.
To sum up, Aegislash seems to me to be a breaker far too strong for the third. He's able to come too easily on a lot of pokemon and doesn't have a real in, forcing too much 50/50. The other non choice lock sets are also very strong.

I'm not going to talk about the other sets like the life + Autotomize able to turn Aegislash into a cleane, the Mixed lo or the SD set. I let you debate about it.

Ladder :
I arrived at the top of the ladder (alt: congelateur-sama) without too much difficulty with several teams using Aegislash Specs or Band, here are my teams (They are not necessarily good, but Aegislash is just too strong.) :

Teams

https://pokepast.es/f091e40254e2f5dd
https://pokepast.es/07fdb368562cafa7

 

[Glitchwood High]

I would like to have the opinion of the people here on Aegislash, I find that these 3 sets: Choice Band, Choice Specs and SubToxic are really problematic for the tier at the moment. The Choice Specs and Choice Band sets force 50/50 which can easily go wrong for the opponent, who is perfectly obliged to lose a pokemon when he doesn't know the Aegislash set.
I'm going to tell you a little bit about my impressions of this pokemon.

Choice Band

Aegislash @ Choice Band
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Claw
- Iron Head
- Close Combat
- Shadow Sneak

This set has no solid answer, with the combo Iron head + Shadow Claw + Close Combat, Aegislash is able to hit the whole third. To stop him, you either have to be a genius and succeed all his 50/50, or have a very solid pokemon on the physique, like Def Tangrowth, or Def Skarmory :

252+ Atk Choice Band Aegislash-Blade Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 141-166 (34.9 - 41%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Aegislash-Blade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 130-153 (38.9 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
But neither of them wants to take Shadow ball !

I did a lot of games where Aegislash came for free on Spdef Tapu Bulu, and my opponent had to in Victini (or another pokemon that is not a check to Aegislash) on an Iron Head/Flash Cannon to not lose a pokemon.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1225522320-kyqoy3fv2v1m1g5p4m3pqdhvhyus5vfpw

I only have a replay with this set, on the other hand, I play this set often and it is very, even too powerful for the tier, in my opinion.

Choice Specs

Aegislash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Shadow Sneak
- Toxic

I find the Choice Specs set easier to counter, but also much more threatening than the Choice Band set. With 2 moves capable of lowering the Spdef, no pokemon can really stay on Aegislash.
Aegislash's strength is his ability to fool his opponent. Thinking of playing against a set choice band, what was the surprise of my opponent to lose his defensive wall on a shadow ball.
Here are some replays that show how Aegislash is able to pressure easily and to come freely on a lot of pokemon of the tier thanks to its bulk

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1219244094-o90flw94byab9a99sg0z4h1nzx6o03dpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1225363452
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1224162824

Sub + Toxic

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- King's Shield
- Shadow Ball
- Toxic
- Substitute

This horrible set is capable of 6-0 a lot of team, only some pokemon like zarude jungle heal, Bisharp, (maybe Celestila and Chansey can totally free on this set. On the other hand, once under sub, thanks to his bulk and his access to King's Shield, Aegislash can totally win by himself, being able to drug the whole opposing team.
To sum up, Aegislash seems to me to be a breaker far too strong for the third. He's able to come too easily on a lot of pokemon and doesn't have a real in, forcing too much 50/50. The other non choice lock sets are also very strong.

I'm not going to talk about the other sets like the life + Autotomize able to turn Aegislash into a cleane, the Mixed lo or the SD set. I let you debate about it.

Ladder :
I arrived at the top of the ladder (alt: congelateur-sama) without too much difficulty with several teams using Aegislash Specs or Band, here are my teams (They are not necessarily good, but Aegislash is just too strong.) :

Teams

https://pokepast.es/f091e40254e2f5dd
https://pokepast.es/5b643cbcc40e40ef
https://pokepast.es/07fdb368562cafa7

View attachment 292228

I frequent this forum too much, but anyways:

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Aegislash-Blade Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Incineroar: 72-85 (18.2 - 21.5%) -- possible 5HKO
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Aegislash-Blade Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Incineroar: 83-98 (21 - 24.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
0- SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Incineroar: 40-48 (10.1 - 12.1%) -- possible 9HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Incineroar: 88-104 (22.3 - 26.3%) -- 13.9% chance to 4HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Incineroar: 88-104 (22.3 - 26.3%) -- 13.9% chance to 4HKO

To me at least, Aegislash is much more manageable unless it's running a choice band, because other incineroar beats it effortlessly. The specs set is completely blanked by incineroar and basically gives it a free knockoff or pivot.

The subtox set can be pretty scary, but all it needs is one hit and...
0 Atk Incineroar Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Blade: 408-482 (125.9 - 148.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 0 Atk Incineroar Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Blade: 272-324 (83.9 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Even with King's Shield up it does an average of 92%. On a game to game basis you're pretty much forced to switch out.

The Choice Band set is the only one of these three that can actually put a dent with incineroar due to close combat being an excellent option, but it could be argued that since it's a pure fifty/fifty it's easy to switch into a mon that can take a close combat, amongst other things. Togekiss is a good example:

252+ Atk Choice Band Aegislash-Blade Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Togekiss: 162-192 (43.3 - 51.3%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO
0- SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Togekiss: 93-109 (24.8 - 29.1%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Aegislash-Blade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Togekiss: 46-54 (12.2 - 14.4%) -- possible 7HKO

With 96 speed evs, Togekiss can switch in, press thunder wave, and just stall Aegislash out till infinity even on a shadow law. If it gets into a shadow ball and close combat, it barely cares anyways. Once again it has the one move that can actually cause problems, but 3/4 times it gets walled. Examples of mons that also handle CBand well include:

1. Amoonguss: Physically defensive amoonguss at most has a 30% to be 2hko'd from iron head and cleanly takes everything else, so amoonguss is a consistently good switch-in.
2. Bisharp, though you mentioned it already, is also pretty solid.
3. Hippowdon takes 38% max from shadow ball so there's a second mon that handles all moves from CBand.
4. Skarmory actually takes a Shadow Ball from the cband set nearly as good as it takes shadow claw:
   1. 0- SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 138-163 (41.3 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Sidenote, but on the topic of Tapu Bulu, it should not be a free switchin if they speed creep:
248+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Blade in Grassy Terrain: 362-426 (138.6 - 163.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Hell even without band you're in trouble
248+ Atk Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Blade in Grassy Terrain: 242-285 (92.7 - 109.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
248+ Atk Tapu Bulu Horn Leech vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Blade in Grassy Terrain: 152-179 (58.2 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain

An actual switchin is pretty impossible if they have 136 or more evs, and even pivoting in you're flipping the dice as to whether aegislash gets ohko'd by wood hammer or not, and if it doesn't, it dies from hazards for the rest of the game.

Then there are the replays, which I watched in full:

1. In the first one I actually didn't see too much of a problem at hand with aegislash. It seemed like you just outplayed your opponent for the most part with good switchins and pivoting. It also didn't hurt that the opponent was running physical zolt, because the mixed set would have most likely caused you to lose (or at least, have a much more uphill battle). Aegi also kept on running into issues with celesteela and to an extent nihilego, which, again, shows that it's not omnipotent. It's a strong mon but I didn't see it as particularly problematic. I would also argue he had a sort of shitty matchup against it in the first place. Applying a lot of pressure and being strong are not banworthy traits.
2. In the second one, again, aegislash wasn't as oppressive as you claim it to be. If anything I think that replayed showed off Jirachi (and how without tang tapu bulu would'e run through the team). Also quick shoutout to overcoat Reuniclus LMAO. Anyways, your opponent also thought he was going to fail to KO aegislash blade with two calm minds boosts for some reason? That was a gigantic misplay on his part and Aegislash surviving past that was due to your opponent making a big oof. You also capitalized on this blunder extremely well. Then Aegislash dies at Turn 57 without having really done much.
3. In the third one, the first thing from Aegislash we see is it becoming setup fodder, and if you didn't have zarude you would be in a mountain of trouble. It did some impressive damage to suicune with shadow ball and...that's it! Your opponent forfeited on turn 29 when he had 4 mons left. I'm not sure why you included this replay because I didn't gleam much of anything from it.

Overall, while Aegislash is a solid Pokemon, I think you really didn't take into account defensive counterplay from other Pokemon. Making a correct guess against Aegislash is oftentimes not even a coinflip. I could be totally wrong-I'm nowhere near top 500 on my main-but I don't think Aegislash is bordeline.

 

[KSt3ve]

I think there is a lot of lack of understanding on your part. I will try to explain a little more.

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Aegislash-Blade Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Incineroar: 72-85 (18.2 - 21.5%) -- possible 5HKO
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Aegislash-Blade Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Incineroar: 83-98 (21 - 24.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
0- SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Incineroar: 40-48 (10.1 - 12.1%) -- possible 9HKO

don't forget this one :
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Aegislash-Blade Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 108 Def Incineroar: 294-348 (74.8 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Incineroar: 88-104 (22.3 - 26.3%) -- 13.9% chance to 4HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Incineroar: 88-104 (22.3 - 26.3%) -- 13.9% chance to 4HKO

To me at least, Aegislash is much more manageable unless it's running a choice band, because other incineroar beats it effortlessly. The specs set is completely blanked by incineroar and basically gives it a free knockoff or pivot.

Certainly, Inci is a "check" to specs Aegislash, even if taking 22.3 - 26.3% without being able to heal himself behind, Inci comes only twice, the third time he is in line of a 4th shadow ball which will kill him. I don't call this a check.

The subtox set can be pretty scary, but all it needs is one hit

The principle of the sub toxic set is to come once, do sub, toxic, then King's Shield and if you can't do sub again, you leave and come back on any pokemon that is too passive or that doesn't touch Aegislash (and there are many of them) to start again and end up killing the whole of the opposing team.
Inci comes once in front of Aegislash which toxic it, then the next time Aegislash spam sub + King's Shield then finished by winning its 1v1.

The Choice Band set is the only one of these three that can actually put a dent with incineroar due to close combat being an excellent option, but it could be argued that since it's a pure fifty/fifty it's easy to switch into a mon that can take a close combat, amongst other things. Togekiss is a good example:

Togekiss can switch in, press thunder wave, and just stall Aegislash

That's the biggest problem, Aegislash is a very powerful pokemon that forces only 50/50, good anticipation, and you lose a pokemon, if you don't, you just have to leave and come back later and your oppo is trap into another 50/50. The example here of Togekiss reminds me of the one I said in my post where someone was forced to in Victini on Aegislash to take Flash Cannon, a bad anticipation, and it's over.
Also : 252+ Atk Choice Band Aegislash-Blade Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Togekiss: 372-438 (99.4 - 117.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Every pokemon should have its answer, but how can you get a correct answer when you don't know whether the pokemon in front is Physical or Special?

1. Amoonguss: Physically defensive amoonguss at most has a 30% to be 2hko'd from iron head and cleanly takes everything else, so amoonguss is a consistently good switch-in.
2. Bisharp, though you mentioned it already, is also pretty solid.
3. Hippowdon takes 38% max from shadow ball so there's a second mon that handles all moves from CBand.
4. Skarmory actually takes a Shadow Ball from the cband set nearly as good as it takes shadow claw:

1) Amoonguss is getting 2hko by both specs and Band :

CAlC

252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Amoonguss: 189-223 (43.8 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Aegislash-Blade Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 205-243 (47.5 - 56.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

2) Bisharp was just a wall vs the sub Toxic set, it is getting 2hko by The specs Set and 3 by band
3) True, Hippo can wall the Cb set but a flinch and it's over, and it's getting OHko by the specs.
4) With Rocks and and some chip, Skarm just died from cb Aegi :
252+ Atk Choice Band Aegislash-Blade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 130-153 (38.9 - 45.8%) -- 16.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Next for bulu, ok i should have say that i was talking about the Spdef Set, which is very common :
0 Atk Tapu Bulu Horn Leech vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield in Grassy Terrain: 50-59 (19 - 22.5%) -- possible 6HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
And Aegislash is getting 2 turns of grassy terrain

Not going to talk about the replays, I just don't agree with your analysis.

The last thing I want to say is that this pokemon restricts Team Building in my opinion :
You need a check for the Cb set, a check for the Specs set, a check for the sub+toxic set ... or your team can be break by an Aegislash set if you don't have an answer pour ses 3 sets.

 

[shadowpea]

I would like to have the opinion of the people here on Aegislash, I find that these 3 sets: Choice Band, Choice Specs and SubToxic are really problematic for the tier at the moment. The Choice Specs and Choice Band sets force 50/50 which can easily go wrong for the opponent, who is perfectly obliged to lose a pokemon when he doesn't know the Aegislash set.
I'm going to tell you a little bit about my impressions of this pokemon.

Choice Band

Aegislash @ Choice Band
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Claw
- Iron Head
- Close Combat
- Shadow Sneak

This set has no solid answer, with the combo Iron head + Shadow Claw + Close Combat, Aegislash is able to hit the whole third. To stop him, you either have to be a genius and succeed all his 50/50, or have a very solid pokemon on the physique, like Def Tangrowth, or Def Skarmory :

252+ Atk Choice Band Aegislash-Blade Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 141-166 (34.9 - 41%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Aegislash-Blade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 130-153 (38.9 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
But neither of them wants to take Shadow ball !

I did a lot of games where Aegislash came for free on Spdef Tapu Bulu, and my opponent had to in Victini (or another pokemon that is not a check to Aegislash) on an Iron Head/Flash Cannon to not lose a pokemon.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1225522320-kyqoy3fv2v1m1g5p4m3pqdhvhyus5vfpw

I only have a replay with this set, on the other hand, I play this set often and it is very, even too powerful for the tier, in my opinion.

Choice Specs

Aegislash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Shadow Sneak
- Toxic

I find the Choice Specs set easier to counter, but also much more threatening than the Choice Band set. With 2 moves capable of lowering the Spdef, no pokemon can really stay on Aegislash.
Aegislash's strength is his ability to fool his opponent. Thinking of playing against a set choice band, what was the surprise of my opponent to lose his defensive wall on a shadow ball.
Here are some replays that show how Aegislash is able to pressure easily and to come freely on a lot of pokemon of the tier thanks to its bulk

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1219244094-o90flw94byab9a99sg0z4h1nzx6o03dpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1225363452
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1224162824

Sub + Toxic

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- King's Shield
- Shadow Ball
- Toxic
- Substitute

This horrible set is capable of 6-0 a lot of team, only some pokemon like zarude jungle heal, Bisharp, (maybe Celestila and Chansey can totally free on this set. On the other hand, once under sub, thanks to his bulk and his access to King's Shield, Aegislash can totally win by himself, being able to drug the whole opposing team.
To sum up, Aegislash seems to me to be a breaker far too strong for the third. He's able to come too easily on a lot of pokemon and doesn't have a real in, forcing too much 50/50. The other non choice lock sets are also very strong.

I'm not going to talk about the other sets like the life + Autotomize able to turn Aegislash into a cleane, the Mixed lo or the SD set. I let you debate about it.

Ladder :
I arrived at the top of the ladder (alt: congelateur-sama) without too much difficulty with several teams using Aegislash Specs or Band, here are my teams (They are not necessarily good, but Aegislash is just too strong.) :

Teams

https://pokepast.es/f091e40254e2f5dd
https://pokepast.es/5b643cbcc40e40ef
https://pokepast.es/07fdb368562cafa7

View attachment 292228

Isn't there a Swords Dance set? Or is it not viable?

 

[Chicknemacnchez]

I frequent this forum too much, but anyways:

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Aegislash-Blade Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Incineroar: 72-85 (18.2 - 21.5%) -- possible 5HKO
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Aegislash-Blade Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Incineroar: 83-98 (21 - 24.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
0- SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Incineroar: 40-48 (10.1 - 12.1%) -- possible 9HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Incineroar: 88-104 (22.3 - 26.3%) -- 13.9% chance to 4HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Incineroar: 88-104 (22.3 - 26.3%) -- 13.9% chance to 4HKO

To me at least, Aegislash is much more manageable unless it's running a choice band, because other incineroar beats it effortlessly. The specs set is completely blanked by incineroar and basically gives it a free knockoff or pivot.

The subtox set can be pretty scary, but all it needs is one hit and...
0 Atk Incineroar Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Blade: 408-482 (125.9 - 148.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 0 Atk Incineroar Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Blade: 272-324 (83.9 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Even with King's Shield up it does an average of 92%. On a game to game basis you're pretty much forced to switch out.

The Choice Band set is the only one of these three that can actually put a dent with incineroar due to close combat being an excellent option, but it could be argued that since it's a pure fifty/fifty it's easy to switch into a mon that can take a close combat, amongst other things. Togekiss is a good example:

252+ Atk Choice Band Aegislash-Blade Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Togekiss: 162-192 (43.3 - 51.3%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO
0- SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Togekiss: 93-109 (24.8 - 29.1%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Aegislash-Blade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Togekiss: 46-54 (12.2 - 14.4%) -- possible 7HKO

With 96 speed evs, Togekiss can switch in, press thunder wave, and just stall Aegislash out till infinity even on a shadow law. If it gets into a shadow ball and close combat, it barely cares anyways. Once again it has the one move that can actually cause problems, but 3/4 times it gets walled. Examples of mons that also handle CBand well include:

1. Amoonguss: Physically defensive amoonguss at most has a 30% to be 2hko'd from iron head and cleanly takes everything else, so amoonguss is a consistently good switch-in.
2. Bisharp, though you mentioned it already, is also pretty solid.
3. Hippowdon takes 38% max from shadow ball so there's a second mon that handles all moves from CBand.
4. Skarmory actually takes a Shadow Ball from the cband set nearly as good as it takes shadow claw:
   1. 0- SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 138-163 (41.3 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Sidenote, but on the topic of Tapu Bulu, it should not be a free switchin if they speed creep:
248+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Blade in Grassy Terrain: 362-426 (138.6 - 163.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Hell even without band you're in trouble
248+ Atk Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Blade in Grassy Terrain: 242-285 (92.7 - 109.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
248+ Atk Tapu Bulu Horn Leech vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Blade in Grassy Terrain: 152-179 (58.2 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain

An actual switchin is pretty impossible if they have 136 or more evs, and even pivoting in you're flipping the dice as to whether aegislash gets ohko'd by wood hammer or not, and if it doesn't, it dies from hazards for the rest of the game.

Then there are the replays, which I watched in full:

1. In the first one I actually didn't see too much of a problem at hand with aegislash. It seemed like you just outplayed your opponent for the most part with good switchins and pivoting. It also didn't hurt that the opponent was running physical zolt, because the mixed set would have most likely caused you to lose (or at least, have a much more uphill battle). Aegi also kept on running into issues with celesteela and to an extent nihilego, which, again, shows that it's not omnipotent. It's a strong mon but I didn't see it as particularly problematic. I would also argue he had a sort of shitty matchup against it in the first place. Applying a lot of pressure and being strong are not banworthy traits.
2. In the second one, again, aegislash wasn't as oppressive as you claim it to be. If anything I think that replayed showed off Jirachi (and how without tang tapu bulu would'e run through the team). Also quick shoutout to overcoat Reuniclus LMAO. Anyways, your opponent also thought he was going to fail to KO aegislash blade with two calm minds boosts for some reason? That was a gigantic misplay on his part and Aegislash surviving past that was due to your opponent making a big oof. You also capitalized on this blunder extremely well. Then Aegislash dies at Turn 57 without having really done much.
3. In the third one, the first thing from Aegislash we see is it becoming setup fodder, and if you didn't have zarude you would be in a mountain of trouble. It did some impressive damage to suicune with shadow ball and...that's it! Your opponent forfeited on turn 29 when he had 4 mons left. I'm not sure why you included this replay because I didn't gleam much of anything from it.

Overall, while Aegislash is a solid Pokemon, I think you really didn't take into account defensive counterplay from other Pokemon. Making a correct guess against Aegislash is oftentimes not even a coinflip. I could be totally wrong-I'm nowhere near top 500 on my main-but I don't think Aegislash is bordeline.

I'm sorry, what. Incineroar maybe be a good switch in, it has its flaws. This thing has no recovery. If your gonna run leftovers, rocks are gonna mess you up. Also Aegislash can easily sub on the switch, toxic you, and stall you out for a couple turns. Now, you are much weaker against monsters like Victini, Latias, etc. Incineroar is not the most popular among the new people and isn't used as much with the immediate power of so much of the meta. I ran a max specially defensive Politoed on my rain team and got cleany 3hkod by a shadow ball (non specs). This thing is like Jirachi. Plenty of checks to one set, but falls to another. Skarm dies to specs, Bisharp dies to band and specs with proper prediction, amoonguss falls to specs, and Hippowdown does too. I realize you stated it checks the banded one, but you can't just run 1 of these 4 mons and be safe against Aegislash. You couldn't just run Incineroar and be fine against Jirachi. Also, who switches a Togekiss on an Aegislash who hasn't locked into there move?

252+ Atk Choice Band Aegislash-Blade Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Togekiss: 372-438 (99.4 - 117.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Togekiss: 404-476 (108 - 127.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Togekiss: 202-238 (54 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And, no Aegislash should not get stalled out. Sub toxic ruins it it and the offensive ones just click their steel move. I've been scrolling through this UU list here and I'm not seeing reliable Specs answers.

-1 0- Atk Aegislash-Blade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Incineroar: 152-180 (38.5 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Amoonguss: 189-223 (43.7 - 51.6%) -- 68.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Also, the king shield 3 attacks shreds Bulu.

248+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield in Grassy Terrain: 156-184 (48.1 - 56.7%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery

Then, you just King's shield and now.

-1 248+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield in Grassy Terrain: 104-123 (32 - 37.9%) -- 76.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery

So know you're giving it grassy terrain, you can still run sub toxic and be in this position. You still have enough HP for a sub and wreck some more havoc. Also, if you think the damage is specs with a Close Combat on Incineroar, you just die to Iron Head/Flash Cannon with Togekiss if it's King Shield 3 attacks. And if you just scout that just adds to the point of the ban. You have a defensive core designed for this thing and you still have to scout? Not good.
Now let's take at some other defensive fighting resists. Amoonguss?

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Amoonguss: 183-216 (42.4 - 50.1%) -- 34.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

Not that safe. You can weaken it with lets say, Banded Bulu zen headbutt. Now, its not a check. Amoonguss is not hard to lure. Tentacruel?

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 130-154 (35.7 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

And once again no reliable recovery. Primarina?

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 44+ SpD Primarina: 118-139 (32.5 - 38.2%) -- 97.7% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

No recovery.

 

[KSt3ve]

Isn't there a Swords Dance set? Or is it not viable?

Swords Dance set is viable, but i don't like, too slow for me (personal thought)

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

there are many sets, mixed life orb, SD, specs, sub toxic, choice band. These all exist and have carried over from OU. mixed is nice because CC busts incineroar even at -1 CC, sub toxic beats it 1v1 after it toxic's it on the switch because it should be brought in as your "check". Specs dosent have much but shadow ball is doing to much to be a long term check and both its stabs can defense drop incineroar. Choice band head smash SLAMS it, and SD CC is a straight up ohko

 

[Glitchwood High]

How is Incineroar not a check if it can consistently come in multiple times and threaten a ohko? That is the very definition of a check, perhaps even a counter. Your argument against it being a check is that it gets worn down very slowly, despite the fact that everytime you switch out, it gains momentum or knocks something off.

With the subtox set, you literally say "yeah it's forced to switch out, but it'll probably win the 1v1 with little health left". That's no good; the fact that you're forced to switch out after one turn is already great news for the other team.

"Powerful Pokemon that forces painful 50/50s or you lose a mon" I stated several Pokemon that don't suffer from a 50/50. You mentioned "how do you know if it's specs or band", but then you don't mention that Incineroar can switch in into literally everything but close combat and then just do a damage calc from there. Or if one is lazy, if they used flash cannon, they're special, if they used claw or sneak, likely physical.

Also. You said Amoonguss gets 2hko'd by both specs and band.

Amoonguss getting 2hko'd only occurs with rocks chip. And if it doesn't die beforehand, Aegi gets spored. Amoonguss also does have recovery, in case you're interested.

Bisharp getting 2hko'd doesn't count for much when it has priority that kills. Unless you click toxic, which would be the strangest thing you could do.

"4) With Rocks and and some chip, Skarm just died from cb Aegi :"
252+ Atk Choice Band Aegislash-Blade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 130-153 (38.9 - 45.8%) -- 16.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
With rocks (skarmory has defog) and some chip (stkarmory has roost), skarmory gets 3hko'd. ?? Half health is not "some chip", that's a large amount of damage.

You need a check for the Cb set, a check for the Specs set, a check for the sub+toxic set ... or your team can be break by an Aegislash set if you don't have an answer pour ses 3 sets.

You not commenting on the replay analysis feels more like you couldn't be assed to explain what they actually showed off about Aegislash because they didn't show off much. At the very least tell me what the 3rd one was supposed to say about Aegislash.


As for Chicknemacnchez...

Your argument against Incineroar versus Aegislash is that Incineroar is weaker against other threats, which honestly to me is such a strange argument. Using this logic, I could say that since subtox Aegislash takes a fat one from knockoff, it's bad because it can't switch into attacks anymore. You also it's like jirachi, where it's sets have no checks, but all of them struggle against Incineroar and Incin alone. Bisharp only loses to specs if you predict it coming in and use close combat, else you get ohko'd with minimal chip. You also say you can't just run incin against Rachi but I'd like to know what jirachi doesn't u-turn out of incineroar.

Also you said "who would raw switch togekiss into band aegislash" despite the fact that I showed calcs showing the defensive set can handle damage from 3/4 moves from cband? Okay.

You said King Shield 3 attacks shreds bulu, which is true, but then none of the sets posted feature King's Shield, despite the fact that I was addressing his sets.

I don't understand your logic for the most part. I keep saying there are mons that aegi struggles against in the 1v1, and then you prove me right by saying "well if it's weakened by strong attacks..." By this same logic, Zeraora is overpowered because if it's walls are all sufficiently damaged, and scarfers dead, then it'll sweep!

I also don't get why you bring up how it wears down primarina and tentacruel considering I never bothered to mention them because they don't even do all that well against it to begin with.

 

[Lily]

Okay, that's enough discussion on Incineroar for now. Please stop flooding the thread with posts about whether or not it's an effective Aegislash check. I shouldn't have to keep saying this stuff, so I'll make it clear once more.

This thread is not for arguments over what checks what and whether or not something is the best mon in the meta or the second best mon in the meta. Those types of posts are better suited for the VR thread when it's up, or just not at all - please just use the UU Discord or personal DMs/etc. if you want to chat about that kind of thing. I'm not going to be making another one of these and I will start infracting if this stuff continues. Seriously, don't do it.

 

[Amane Misa]

In the current metagame I find what was considered to be cheese pretty consistent.

I peaked top 10 with this team yesterday while waiting for the bus so you know I wasn't paying full attention to the game. Today I laddered with another alt and got it to mid-1600s but I had to stop because the bus came. This shows how powerful this playstyle is.

importable

Krookodile @ Focus Sash
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock

Ninetales-Alola @ Light Clay
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aurora Veil
- Freeze-Dry
- Hail
- Hypnosis

Gengar @ Salac Berry
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 12 HP / 244 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot

Celesteela @ Power Herb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Flamethrower
- Autotomize
- Meteor Beam

Gyarados @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Bounce
- Dragon Dance
- Power Whip

Volcarona @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Bug Buzz
- Quiver Dance
- Psychic

Honestly, this playstyle has a lot of potential because UU has a lot more cheesy Pokemon I haven't tried yet; BD Azumarill, BD Kommo-o, BD Linoone, SD + Scale Shot Haxorus and Double Dance Thundurus are on the top of my mind but there are probably more Pokemon to abuse with success.

The bus is coming soon so I have to end this but I might make a post about how broken Gengar is someday.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

Why not lead cobalion, it is faster so support mew cant just taunt it, and cobalion can just pivot to members as well

 

[Amane Misa]

Why not lead cobalion, it is faster so support mew cant just taunt it, and cobalion can just pivot to members as well

I wanted an Electric immunity and a Knock Off user. Besides, I haven't seen lead Mew much but I might just be lucky I guess.

 

[pokemonisfun]

Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex
- Sludge Wave
- Substitute

I think this Gengar set innovated by Ramolost is broken right now and needs to be banned ASAP. Frankly, it just doesn't have counterplay even compared to Blacephalon:

• STAB Sludge Wave lets you 2HKO offensive versions of Hydreigon, Kommo-o, and Incineroar and at worst you're going to get a 3HKO vs them so you don't really care about these mons unlike Blacephalon after a single switch in
• You have access to Will-o-Wisp so things that "normally" check you like Celesteela are going to lose if they switch into a Sub or WoW and can even lose 1v1 if you Substitute on a predicted Leech Seed
• Your speed tier is superior enough compared to Blacephalon that you don't need to worry about several extra revenge killers like Keldeo, Terrakion, and tying Latias (which you don’t OHKO unless statusing it)
  
  

There’s another mon I’d like to shout out: Tentacruel.

Liquid Ooze, Water and Fairy resistances, and a decent stat spread make it shine right now in the metagame as it denies Celesteela recovery and it lets you strongly check Azumarill and Primarina without the need for Amoonguss. And you actually can check Scizor unlike Amoonguss who lacks Hidden Power this gen. You’re an okay spinner as the top hazard setter Hippowdon can’t switch in and you beat it 1v1 30% of the time (Scald). Plenty of teams are legit weak to Tentacruel after it gets a Rapid Spin boost as Sludge Bomb plus Scald is getting great coverage right now. The only big downside is needing Wish/Grassy Terrain support and bad defense stat. You don’t even have 4mss right now - STABs plus Spin plus Haze is all you ever need, Knock Off isn’t needed for anything tbh as often just Burn/Poison is better than item removal and Toxic Spikes is always nice but never needed.

On another note, I do think Celesteela needs to be banned still but I don’t think we’re really exploiting options to beat Celesteela very well. Even Gastrodon is a great counter to the standard defensive Celesteela as it freely fishes for Scald burns.

 

[BigFatMantis]

Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex
- Sludge Wave
- Substitute

I think this Gengar set innovated by Ramolost is broken right now and needs to be banned ASAP. Frankly, it just doesn't have counterplay even compared to Blacephalon:

• STAB Sludge Wave lets you 2HKO offensive versions of Hydreigon, Kommo-o, and Incineroar and at worst you're going to get a 3HKO vs them so you don't really care about these mons unlike Blacephalon after a single switch in
• You have access to Will-o-Wisp so things that "normally" check you like Celesteela are going to lose if they switch into a Sub or WoW and can even lose 1v1 if you Substitute on a predicted Leech Seed
• Your speed tier is superior enough compared to Blacephalon that you don't need to worry about several extra revenge killers like Keldeo, Terrakion, and tying Latias (which you don’t OHKO unless statusing it)
  

There’s another mon I’d like to shout out: Tentacruel.

Liquid Ooze, Water and Fairy resistances, and a decent stat spread make it shine right now in the metagame as it denies Celesteela recovery and it lets you strongly check Azumarill and Primarina without the need for Amoonguss. And you actually can check Scizor unlike Amoonguss who lacks Hidden Power this gen. You’re an okay spinner as the top hazard setter Hippowdon can’t switch in and you beat it 1v1 30% of the time (Scald). Plenty of teams are legit weak to Tentacruel after it gets a Rapid Spin boost as Sludge Bomb plus Scald is getting great coverage right now. The only big downside is needing Wish/Grassy Terrain support and bad defense stat. You don’t even have 4mss right now - STABs plus Spin plus Haze is all you ever need, Knock Off isn’t needed for anything tbh as often just Burn/Poison is better than item removal and Toxic Spikes is always nice but never needed.

On another note, I do think Celesteela needs to be banned still but I don’t think we’re really exploiting options to beat Celesteela very well. Even Gastrodon is a great counter to the standard defensive Celesteela as it freely fishes for Scald burns.

IMO go make this same post (the Gengar part) in the RU thread and see what becomes of that tier the next few days with this Gengar set running amok there.

On Celesteela, it is really troublesome. I am talking about the defensive Leech Seed variant. It wins the 1v1 against most of its "checks" if they get seeded upon entry. This includes things like Magnezone (even Specs) and Volcanion. It will protect scout choice Victini and other banded mons and let you switch to something that eats its attack (fat Mence eats V-Creates quite well, even banded ones). Things like Thundurus-T (who have 145 base Special Attack) do 60% to it w/ TBolt unless boosted or specs (specs usually doesn't KO either). If it kills something and boosts its Special Defense it's even worse. In fact the only way to 100% guarantee kill it without letting it bail is a 0 speed Eviolite Magneton to Volt Switch into a Magnezone to finish it off.

Since there seem to be some mixed feelings on it though, maybe not best to QB it and just slate it first for a Suspect in December. But I do think it is the most problematic and centralizing thing in the tier ATM. There's some fun strong stuff in the tier right now but I wouldn't say anything necessarily should be outright quickbanned.

 

[ramolost]

IMO go make this same post (the Gengar part) in the RU thread and see what becomes of that tier the next few days with this Gengar set running amok there.

On Celesteela, it is really troublesome. I am talking about the defensive Leech Seed variant. It wins the 1v1 against most of its "checks" if they get seeded upon entry. This includes things like Magnezone (even Specs) and Volcanion. It will protect scout choice Victini and other banded mons and let you switch to something that eats its attack (fat Mence eats V-Creates quite well, even banded ones). Things like Thundurus-T (who have 145 base Special Attack) do 60% to it w/ TBolt unless boosted or specs (specs usually doesn't KO either). If it kills something and boosts its Special Defense it's even worse. In fact the only way to 100% guarantee kill it without letting it bail is a 0 speed Eviolite Magneton to Volt Switch into a Magnezone to finish it off.

Since there seem to be some mixed feelings on it though, maybe not best to QB it and just slate it first for a Suspect in December. But I do think it is the most problematic and centralizing thing in the tier ATM. There's some fun strong stuff in the tier right now but I wouldn't say anything necessarily should be outright quickbanned.

ive been experiencing with the same gengar set in ru and its broken in both tiers. not because it is ru we shouldnt look at it here.
3 replays :
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1225582428-o6je2yi9ec80qlrgr0lg1of9dgigyg1pw
me playing pif for fun and totally smashing him.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1226542629-lvw4grorr5qxn4abczrfynp6tcvc3iepw
my uu blitz game against eifo.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1227497878-n67eckcih5uia23y4m8m3z8mfl6etx7pw
my good friend / uu snake player winning against a random on ladder coz of gengar even after major hax
i believe that gengar has no counterplay against fat : umbreon and chansey will lose the 1v1 against np variants. gengar had already very limited counterplay last gen but just ended up being suited by maero.
although, i believe that theres other problem in the tier who are more broken than gengar but its def worth at looking at it.

 

[Highways]

I'd like to start this post by saying I'm very offended by the title of this thread. Disgusting stuff really.

I usually don't write in these kinds of threads asking for a ban to happen, but there are two Pokemon that are limiting teambuilding to the point it's just unbearable. In a tier with limited Ghost resists and a limited amount of consistent defensive Pokemon, Gengar and Aegislash are obviously destined to thrive, but I feel like they were given more than enough time in the tier. I won't develop on their versatility or breaking power because they're noticeable by any expectator. Some might even argue that Steela's and Hippo's presence are enough to keep them at check and that the tier has enough viable revenge killers to make up for the absurd offensive pressure they apply, but this is just not true: Celesteela and Hippowdon can't afford to switch into Specs Shadow Ball from Aegislash or get wisped by Gengar, especially if rocks are up, and the fact that Game Freak murdered Pursuit make revenge killing them really hard since there's no way to punish them directly. Only Krook resists Gengar's STABs while Incin is the only Pokemon that resists Aegislash's STABs, and both get punished by a status move or coverage, while also being really easy to wear down. The amount of free turns they get against Grass-types, which are basically a must have at this point, is also ridiculous.

My main issue with both is that they are, simply put, unhealthy. We already have healthy wallbreakers, stallbreakers, setup sweepers, Fairy resists, and the list goes on. Keeping two Pokemon that are too much for the tier and aren't necessary for any kind of balance to keep the tier flowing (e.g Jirachi in DLC1 UU) makes the tier feel limited and teambuilding feel awful. There are obviously many other Pokemon that I think are too much for the tier (Gyarados, Volcarona, Diggersby, Venusaur, Azumarill are probably on my list), but as far as teambuilding goes, Aegislash and Gengar are definitely the most restrictive at the moment and should be, at the very least, in the next voting slate.

 

[Glitchwood High]

although, i believe that theres other problem in the tier who are more broken than gengar but its def worth at looking at it.

Primarily this. There are still a lot of things running amok in the tier right now so it's hard to say that one mon needs to be banned immediately over the other because that's honestly hard as heck to judge.

 

[Lily]

Note: My opinions in this post don't necessarily reflect those of the council; some of them agree with me, some don't. I haven't been playing a ton, but over the past week or so in the new meta I've come to realise that we have a few issues. This is largely the same as my old post lol but I figured I'd give some slightly updated opinions.

I don't have too much to say, Highways pretty much got it all already. These two are very, very restrictive and only have one or two reliable answers that are either a) worn down quickly or b) not really good mons in the current meta. I don't expect them to last too much longer in the current meta, they're just far too silly.

Talked about the water snake a bit before in my other post, but I think it's even more ridiculous now. Losing Dracozolt was unsurprisingly huge for this thing, since it was pretty much the best offensive check in the tier, but honestly the lack of mons that can actually handle its hits and threaten it at the same time is such an issue. Stuff like Tangrowth and Amoonguss w/ Protect can check it, yes, but they can barely even do anything in return other than just stall it out of Bounce PP, and while we have some great scarfers like Latias and Rotom-W that can take it on it just feels really restrictive and silly in teambuilding, especially with Screens support. I would definitely vote ban on it rn.

Terrakion has gotten better, strangely enough. The things we used to check it in the old meta - Slowbro, Mudsdale, GWeezing, RKing with Noivern/Heliolisk/friends - all pretty much nonexistent now. Palossand doesn't exist either. Hippowdon is a reasonably good check but it needs to be max/max to even stand a chance at surviving a +2 CC, and revenge killing Terrak isn't even the easiest thing right now with the ubiquity of sand making it quite resilient against things like Scarf Hydreigon. It just feels beyond stupid whether it's running SD or CB, and Scarf has been popping up too as a Volcarona answer. I'm on the fence about it rn but I'd probably lean towards ban.

one day i will get a good gif of u

I said before that Azu might get overbearing as time goes on. Time has gone on and it's kinda overbearing. Ice Punch has emerged as a way to slap its best checks in Tangrowth and Amoonguss, so nothing's really safe from the bunny anymore. +6 Jet resists are reasonably easy to come by with things like Tapu Bulu, Latias, and Hydreigon fitting the bill, but Latias needs Thunderbolt to even have a shot at RKing and Hydreigon can't do it no matter how hard it tries unless it's like, Belch??? so yea not really ideal! It's a bit of an unhealthy presence imo, I don't think it's worth keeping anymore and would probably vote ban given the chance.


Some other things:

I think Volc's okay right now but if we were to ban all of the Pokemon I listed above there would be no doubt in my mind that it'd end up being broken. We'd need to see to be 100% sure, obviously, but I can't see it being healthy unless there's a massive rise in Lycanroc-Dusk and Crawdaunt to account for the departure of Terrakion and Azumarill.

V-Create go brr, a lot of people both on this thread and on the council have expressed their feelings that Victini might be too much for the tier to handle right now. I personally disagree, all of its sets are either limited by hazard damage or lack of immediate power, but I guess CB is kinda silly on Sun. Idt it's that good but I guess it's worth looking at.

Still really dumb, still really hard to kill, but it hasn't felt as silly lately. The meta might shift away from it. I don't know what I'd vote if we were to hold a vote on it right now, but I think I'm leaning towards DNB.

I've seen some talk about Lele lately, and I don't really get it. Like yeah it absolutely smashes teams without strong Psychic resists but I don't think those are hard to fit right now thanks to the excellence of bulky Scizor, Celesteela, Jirachi, and Tapu Bulu which can remove the Psychic Terrain that makes Lele so scary. I'd be interested in hearing more opinions on this thing bc I really don't know if I'm just missing something but it feels alright atm.