np: Stage 3 - Family Reunion ("This Is Why I Created" Remix)

[Philip7086]

This statement here just proves how much of a crock of shit the suspect metagame is right now... still a few days into it and its not slowing down yet. I mean no disrespect to the test because I am very grateful for it, I just can't wait for obviously uber things like Deoxys-E to go. When people are Scarfing the fastest pokemon in the game just to win speed ties and screw itself over, the game is getting completely out of hand. I've seen teams with 3-4 scarfers that are actually doing well, because of how absent and utterly raped stall has been in the current tier. Rain absolutely blows... the only time I tried it I ended up losing to a team of ScarfLatios / Scarfchomp / Scarf Shaymin-S which is absurd, but effective... *shaking my head*

Anyone have any idea on how to help me make a viable team thats not cluttered with bullshit?

A few people, including myself, have been running stall really successfully actually. We'll try to slow the metagame down to your liking... or people can just ignore us stall users and keep using teams that get owned by our stall. A lot of people really enjoy this "crock of shit" metagame and how fast it is, so they won't be changing their fast-paced teams any time soon.

 

[Nachos]

So I've finally got back into Pokemon by playing on the Suspect ladder, and I must say, this is quite fun!

I'm running a Triple Steel, Double Dragon and Deo-S as my late-game sweeper for a team. So far, I haven't really had any problem with the suspects, bar Skymin which fucks me over with crits. The lead Deoxys which everyone keeps mentioning is fairly manageable, with Bronzong taking out more then half it's health with Gyro Ball on the first turn.

I've seen a support Latias once, which never actually got to do anything thanks to Scizor and Bronzong. Latias is so outclassed now, it's not even funny.

Garchomp in this metagame is just another Pokemon you think "Might as well get it over with", unlike the power it was in DP. The 110 Speed Dragons, in this case Latios, are putting a dent in Garchomp's armour. Scizor also loves to come in on Outrage and Bronzong just sits there and just laughs while spamming Gyro Ball.

A Garchomp set I've been using is Adamant Choice Band. Anything that isn't steel type takes heavy damage, enough to make sure it doesn't cause mayhem again.

So far, I'm liking this metagame. It reminds me of DP, with Deoxys-S and Garchomp around, and the action is fast paced and cautious, if you make one mistake it can cost you the game.

 

[tab]

This statement here just proves how much of a crock of shit the suspect metagame is right now... still a few days into it and its not slowing down yet. I mean no disrespect to the test because I am very grateful for it, I just can't wait for obviously uber things like Deoxys-E to go. When people are Scarfing the fastest pokemon in the game just to win speed ties and screw itself over, the game is getting completely out of hand. I've seen teams with 3-4 scarfers that are actually doing well, because of how absent and utterly raped stall has been in the current tier. Rain absolutely blows... the only time I tried it I ended up losing to a team of ScarfLatios / Scarfchomp / Scarf Shaymin-S which is absurd, but effective... *shaking my head*

Anyone have any idea on how to help me make a viable team thats not cluttered with bullshit?

Offense and stall still work perfectly well without loading up on scarfers. Offense with 3 steels, Deoxys, and either two dragons or a dragon+Skymin is more or less the meta. Scizor, Metagross and Bronzong in particular are amazing at countering most of what people are running. Stall with a specially defensive Skarmory works wonders, most people are focusing on Deoxys and the other suspects so much that they can't break through stall properly.

 

[Bad Ass]

I guess someone deleted my other post (it deserved to be deleted). Stall is perfectly viable in suspect. The problem is that you can prepare for offense, or you can prepare for stall-but with all the scarfers and dxs, it's nearly impossible to have a good team that can consistently beat both. Since offense is much more common than stall (well, at least it is now), people are using the scarfers that excel versus offense...but are almost auto-lose versus stall.

 

[remlabmez]

I guess someone deleted my other post (it deserved to be deleted). Stall is perfectly viable in suspect. The problem is that you can prepare for offense, or you can prepare for stall-but with all the scarfers and dxs, it's nearly impossible to have a good team that can consistently beat both. Since offense is much more common than stall (well, at least it is now), people are using the scarfers that excel versus offense...but are almost auto-lose versus stall.

Pretty much what I was about to say, sums up the metagame perfectly at this moment, who knows how it will change though.

 

[Diana]

Pretty much what I was about to say, sums up the metagame perfectly at this moment, who knows how it will change though.

The scary part about it is that you go to bed one night, get up in the morning and there's about ten times as many stall teams. I had to make a whole new team today..

Now that I think about it Trick gets around a lot of teams on both sides, I might need to try that more, marginal success so far.

All I know is that if I don't find a way to take on both well then there's no way I'll be able to vote here, this metagame is insanely broken at this point.

 

[WJC3688]

Agreed with the above posts entirely. I'm already sick of seeing stall teams. The worst part is that an offensive team geared to beat stall will lose vs the majority of the other offensive teams, and despite the disturbing increase in stall usage there's still enough offensive teams out there that you need to be prepared for offense, aswell. Ofcourse, if you use the standard offense with scarfers and such though, you just get owned by stall. The only solution I can find at the moment is to just run stall, but I hope there's a better answer out there somewhere, cause it's disgusting that one would be forced to use stall in order to be successful.

I tried a team with two Trickers to use against stall but it failed miserably. Stuff like Forry and Bronzong really don't give two shits if they get tricked.

 

[Aiklap]

Agreed with the above posts entirely. I'm already sick of seeing stall teams. The worst part is that an offensive team geared to beat stall will lose vs the majority of the other offensive teams, and despite the disturbing increase in stall usage there's still enough offensive teams out there that you need to be prepared for offense, aswell. Ofcourse, if you use the standard offense with scarfers and such though, you just get owned by stall. The only solution I can find at the moment is to just run stall, but I hope there's a better answer out there somewhere, cause it's disgusting that one would be forced to use stall in order to be successful.

I tried a team with two Trickers to use against stall but it failed miserably. Stuff like Forry and Bronzong really don't give two shits if they get tricked.

yes, I have the same problem. You need at least 2 pokemon designed to tackle stall, and in doing so you are a target for offence, although offense alone is beatern by stall.
The only solution is to go stall, and have 30 hour matches, or 1 hour on shoddy.

 

[panamaxis]

The only solution is to go stall, and have 30 hour matches, or 1 hour on shoddy.

Are you really that unmotivated to think you have to use stall, rather than trying to build a team that can fare well against both? You really don't need scarfers of your own to beat other offense, I've been running an offensive team with zero scarfers and It doesn't auto-lose vs either offense or stall.

 

[supermarth64]

K, I changed my mind and continued to use my team. (KD24 may be picking up on this)

I would've stopped, but DJD said "Play to win", so I'm playing to win(ish).

One thing though. This seems just like a faster version of OU now... except a lot more full offensive teams.

 

[thechocolatebunny]

Are you really that unmotivated to think you have to use stall, rather than trying to build a team that can fare well against both? You really don't need scarfers of your own to beat other offense, I've been running an offensive team with zero scarfers and It doesn't auto-lose vs either offense or stall.

same. Bulky offense fares against both. It can take unboosted hits from scarfers and hit hard enough to break through stall. I too am running a team that has no scarfer that doesn't auto-lose to either type. There are many solutions to handle these scarf teams. Right now the 3 biggest scarfers I've heard of are scarfchomp. scarflati, and scarfmin. Is there really no thing that can stop these? Something as simple as an SDscizor can use resistant and maybe even weakened attacks and SD. Now the scarfs don't help out all.

 

[Philip7086]

lol, and everybody was saying stall was impossible in this meta. Now that stall's catching on, I'm going to stop using stall just to show people that you don't need one or the other to be successful. Already have an idea in mind.

 

[reyscarface]

Just a comment, Roost SD Scizor rapes the metagame if you have SR and 1 layer of Spikes (thanks Deoxys).

Garchomp falls, Skymin falls, Latios and Latias fall, Manaphy hurts with Surf but Scizor survives and KOs with +2 X-Scissor, Deoxys falls too.

And the best part is you can set-up on every Bronzong (one of the most common pokes) and other "walls" thanks to Roost.

 

[StarmanXL]

Just a comment, Roost SD Scizor rapes the metagame if you have SR and 1 layer of Spikes (thanks Deoxys).

Garchomp falls, Skymin falls, Latios and Latias fall, Manaphy hurts with Surf but Scizor survives and KOs with +2 X-Scissor, Deoxys falls too.

And the best part is you can set-up on every Bronzong (one of the most common pokes) and other "walls" thanks to Roost.

Huh, I might try that out, as I absolutely hate CB Scizor. Yeah, it's powerful and all but being locked into one move has screwed me over so many times. I'm guessing it's SD/Roost/Bullet Punch/X-Scissor, correct?

 

[reyscarface]

Huh, I might try that out, as I absolutely hate CB Scizor. Yeah, it's powerful and all but being locked into one move has screwed me over so many times. I'm guessing it's SD/Roost/Bullet Punch/X-Scissor, correct?

I run that, though you could use Brick Break over X-Scissor if steels are a pain or Dual Screens really destroy your team. I use X-Scissor because all the steels i see are Neutral to Bug, but Brick Break can help in some scenarios.

 

[Head Smash]

I absolutely hate CB Scizor. Yeah, it's powerful and all but being locked into one move has screwed me over so many times

The trick to using CB Scizor is basically just to U-turn out every single time until you've scouted most of your opponent's team or it's near the lategame. Even if your U-turn is predicted, there's really not much an opponent can do to you if you're using U-turn (short of something faster using a surprise HP Fire on you, such as Latias). And STAB, CB U-turn shears off a huge chunk of health from anything--I recall my Bronzong taking ~40% from it once.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

lol, and everybody was saying stall was impossible in this meta. Now that stall's catching on, I'm going to stop using stall just to show people that you don't need one or the other to be successful. Already have an idea in mind.

Who in their right mind was saying that ?___?

SkarmBliss walls every one of the suspects. I've been using a Stall team on the ladder and I've basically been destroying everything on the leaderboard with it (I'm RainbowWarrior, if you see me around).

Skarmory (M) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Brave Bird
- Spikes
- Roost
- Whirlwind

Is currently the best pokemon in the metagame right now, with all of the ScarfChomps, Bronzongs, Latiases, Scizors, Skymins, etc running around. Thunderbolt from LO Deoxys-S and non Specs Latios can't even OHKO this thing with SR up. And did I mention its one of the sturdiest pokemon in OU? It comes in all day and sets up Spikes, then just pisses over anything your opponent could try with Roost and WW. I've gotten more KOs with this guy than with the sweeper Deoxys-S that I'm using as the anchor of my Stall team (after everything is worn down, Deoxys-S doesn't care how good your defenses are ^___^). The lack of Leftovers doesn't make much of a difference because its defenses are so good anyways, and lots of people are using the same rehashed Magnezone + Dragon teams anyways...so Shed Shell is worth it.

Although I'm kinda lacking on suspect exp at the moment, since im only using the least important one, its worth it to have the huge win ratio that Stall is getting me.

 

[Darkerkrai]

Hm, I guess I can switch back to my good ol' ScarfAzelf lead, just to beat the DXS leads.

So anyway, this is essentially what I think of the suspects so faaaaaar:

• Deoxys-S: Okay, this thing isn't much offensively overwhelming as it is as a support. Dual Screens, Stealth Rock and Spikes can set the playing field up for a chuck of offensive teams and that's the most common set I've seen this thing using imo. I've had to run something faster with either Taunt or, a move that kills this thing instantly as a lead if I ever wanted to stop it let alone kill it. Oh yeah and it's kinda really versitle, if you know what set it's running, it's going to demolish you anyway. If we were to eventually get to a Deoxys-D test, I'd rather see that in OU rather than DXS.

• Garchomp: Above any other suspect, Garchomp surprised me the most. SD Yache Garchomp hasn't really become as much as an annoyance as I thought that it would be. With the abundance of Dragon typed moves in the metagame now that Latias became OU and Outrage and Dragon Pulse users began to flourish, the Yache Berry is pretty much not as useful to put on Garchomp now, imo. Sure, player "A" may have to drop Pokemon "A" to kill Garchomp after a Swords Dance, but without a reliable way to kill a powerhouse Pokemon, the same can be said for any other Pokemon that demolishes teams. The Electric immunity and the Rock/Fire resistances don't really Phaze me much (haha, like that pun? I thought not) seeing as how the Pokemon that use those moves have a way of taking it down. By the way, I'm currently using SubSD Chomp with really great sucess right now; setting up a Substitute, Swords Dance a few times and let the Salac Berry activate, you'll be surprised how many people are caught off guard by this set. My opinion of Garchomp will change throughout the suspect test if something big with it happens, though. Otherwise, I'm all for this guy to be OU again >.>.

• Shaymin-S: I never wanted him Uber in the first place seeing as how "hax" isn't much of a reliable way to win with Skymin. I've been screwed over by relying on flinches and Seed Flare's shakey accuracy for a while now. When pitted against Skymin, I tend to be revenge killing it... a lot. If Skymin has Choice Specs and has a Modest nature, it's pretty much the same way I'd deal with Latias, bring in something to sponge the obvious move and kill it like that. Any way I want to see it, Choice Specs Skymin is a very powerful Pokemon that nets 2HKOs and OHKOs on slower Pokemon while faster Pokemon are the only ones who have any hope against it and it's manged to put my opinion of Skymin in limbo for a while.

• Manaphy: I've rarely seen it, but my opinion of it stands as it's always been: Too powerful, even without the rain... oh and not to mention that even if Manaphy faints, it will have damaged the opposing team enough to allow another Pokemon to sweep.

• Latios: It's the same deal as Manaphy. It just trades good typing for power and a better movepool.

• Latias: I think that it's already been proved that she doesn't overpower the OU metagame as it is. I don't even consider Latias as much of a threat anymore >.>.

imo, most of the suspects don't bother me at all.

 

[StarmanXL]

So far, I've got to say that the SubSeed set of Skymin is the most frustrating one, although it can be beaten. I personally think CS Skymin is kinda stupid but whatever.

I've also been trying to find a useful set for Manaphy. Right now I'm testing out Sub on it and it hasn't been doing badly in my brief experience. Can usually come in on Heatran then Sub on the switch, usually to Skymin or something. Still needs work, though.

On a side note, I never thought something would make me play Singles over doubles. I will say, if Skymin does become OU, that shit's going straight on my Gravity team.

 

[Philip7086]

Who in their right mind was saying that ?___?

Pretty much every mention of stall on the first few pages were about how it's nonexistent and can't flourish, lol. Also just by talking to people before the test started, everybody talked about how stall will no longer be viable.

 

[JLei2k]

The reason Stall works so well right now is because everyone playing offense is trying out metagame the other offensive teams with random scarfs and substitutes which leave them easy to wall because they are locked into NVE moves or using the sub instead of a move that provides coverage. It's the natural progression of what I thought the suspect metagame was gonna be. Once people start destroying with stall the crazy one upsmenship on the offensive teams will cease and people will start to run some wall breaking sets which all the suspects have and I feel why most all of them were banned from OU in their testing (too hard to wall/ they punch a hole where something can sweep). Skymin wasn't banned because of the Scarf set (the most effective right now) it was banned because of the Sub Seed set. Chomp was not banned because of the Scarf set (most common) it was banned because of the SD set.

 

[XxBlueCleric.xX]

Wow this ladder is great fun: Fast paced and invigorating. I basically switched just a few things in my old ladder team (example: DDMence for SDChomp and Suicune for Manaphy) and won numerous games on an alt. I won't reveal yet. My thoughts on the suspects:

Deoxys S: I don't use him but I've certainly played against him! I haven't found the sweeper version nor the spiker particularly fearsome. Unboosted 95 base sp.atk can only take you so far......The DS-DS is extremely annoying and has a chance to survive 2 CB Bullet Punches from Scizor if it tosses up a Reflect after the first, which nearly cost me the match!

Garchomp: Garchomp is still an awesome sweeper, but definitely not as threatening as D/P days (I was actually playing Shoddy back then but was only lurking Smogon....) It's still the same old 2 pokes to remove the Yache Berry and KO with (insert Ice move). Lati@s and Scizor also help keep it in check.

Manaphy: Tail Glow Manaphy is a force behind Dual Screens....this is definitely not Manaphy's metagame. The other suspects bear great influence on Manaphy so I believe it shouldn't be voted out immediately.

Skymin: Skymin makes a great revenge killer but still, the suspects influence it quite a bit. If Deoxys-S becomes Uber (which it is likely to be based on prior posts) then Skymin could be a much greater force that could actually sweep (unless something like Jolteon becomes popular, but w/e)

Latios: Definitely annoying. Specs Draco Meteor is a bitch. For this reason, I run a special defensive Bronzong. Latios is probably the second largest influencial factor in the metagame as it can switch in on Skymin and easily revenge Garchomp. Even sweeper DXS fails to OHKO it while it can OHKO back.

Lastly, I haven't faced a single Stall team but it does seem viable. Crophy and CM Refresh Latias, which could break stall, aren't seen in this metagame. I really don't see what stall component handles SDChomp though. I mean, Hippowdon and Skarmory still fall especially the specially defensive version like posted above.....Would someone explain to me what effectively handles SDChomp in Stall?

 

[Loki]

I use a pretty defensive/stally team on suspect and while SDChomp is certainly scary, I've been able to handle it pretty well so far. I use both skarm and bronzong as initial switch-ins and sweeper Deoxys-s to kill it off in the end if need be. With spikes+sr up, chomp just cant keep coming in and picking things off. IMO "pure" stall does not work that well on this ladder, you need at least some speed whether it's deoxys-s or some scarf pokemon.

 

[Syberia]

If you're having trouble beating stall, you should really consider a Substitute/Tail Glow Manaphy. I've been using Modest with 404 HP, enough speed to bring me to around 250 to outspeed Celebi, and the rest in Special Attack. At +6, it does 65% to even Calm Blissey with Surf, and Ice Beam takes care of common annoyances like Celebi, Garchomp, and the Latis. If you've got to use it to counter Garchomp it does a good job, only taking 50% from Outrage.

And now I remember why I hate Garchomp. Sand Veil is just plain gay.

 

[Fabbles]

Attesting to Skarmory's dominance as Jrrrrrrr mentioned. With the relative lack of things commonly seen in the Platinum metagame such as Heatran/Infernape/Jolteon, and with some special defense, Skarmory walls a great porton of the Suspect metagame. Countless times I won the match because between Bronzong and Skarmory, my opponent was unable to break through. As the spikes add up, it becomes much easier for things like Garchomp and Azelf to sweep through teams.

So far, I would not say anything is Uber, although Deoxys-S is getting pretty close. I can't say I enjoy this more than DP, but it is a step above the old Platinum metagame.