Metagame np: Stage 7 - Problem

[ryan]

After extensive discussion with the council and countless hours worth of complaining from the community, Sneasel and Gallade are being suspected. As with all previous NU suspect tests, Sneasel and Gallade will be allowed on the suspect ladder so that you can play with and against them and see what the NU metagame is like with them on every single team.

Sneasel is being suspected because it is very strong and fast, gets rid of passive recovery on most of its checks thanks to Knock Off, and Pursuit traps everything weak to Dark because of its high Speed. It is also nearly impossible to check offensively because of its STAB priority and amazing Speed.

Gallade is being suspected because it is very difficult to switch into. Strong STAB Fighting + Psychic moves, as well as a plethora of other coverage moves and utility moves make Gallade a monster for defensive teams as traditional Fighting counters either get demolished by STAB coverage, steamrolled by a Swords Dance-boosted attack, or possibly even hit with a move such as Trick, Memento, Will-O-Wisp, or Destiny Bond.

To attain reqs to vote during this suspect test, you must reach 2400 COIL. The B value for this test is 20.0. For those curious, you can find out approximately how many matches you have to play to achieve reqs by inputting your GXE (shown on the ladder page and when you type /rank into the chat) into the following formula:

20.0/log2(40*GXE/2400)

(Google calculator is awesome for this kind of thing.)

Obligatory The Immortal tag

Also, following suit with RU and UU, we will be introducing separate council suspect requirements. Every member of the council has been vetted by Raseri and me, and we trust them to play the metagame and make an informed decision. As such, council members will only be required to play 30 games or reach 1800 COIL. This is our first time trying out council reqs, so they may be adjusted or removed in future suspects depending on how well they work during this suspect.

We will post an alt confirmation thread towards the end of the laddering period, which will last two weeks until approximately July 8th at 11:59 PM EST. Voting will take place shortly afterward. Feel free to use this thread to discuss all topics related to the suspect test and this metagame. Do not to post any one-liners and remain respectful towards other players. Also refrain from using this thread to complain about the metagame. Trust me when I say Raseri and I have heard enough.

 

[Kiyo]

haha n00bs believed we were gonna suspect knock off,,,

For anyone in need of a team for achieving suspect reqs please feel free to follow this formula (condensing roles can give you the illusion you're being innovative if you're into that):

lanturn + torterra/lilligant + xatu + sneasel + gallade + mawile/mega audino/gurdurr

 

[Disjunction]

This meta will be so fresher if we get rid of Sneasel, I know that, but I don't want to go into this with any bias. I'm looking forward to reading all the pro and anti ban arguments for this threat.

Not sold on Gallade right now, actually. Premiere wall breaker for sure, but it's extremely easy to force out and pivot around. As a more offensive player I'm more on a no ban side right now, but like Sneasel, I want to go into this with no bias. Wanna see what people come up with for this thing's reasoning.

Gotta ladder to reqs before Sunday, holy shit, let's bust out the game face

 

[Dad's Dad]

Can't wait to see pokeaim ladder for this n_n

But seriously I've laddered a bit with a team Oshony gave me and Sneasel is such a huge threat to offense LOL l iterally killed everything... Gallade's also threatening but you have Tauros, Fletchinder, Sneasel, Haunter, Archeops, Mismagius, Swellow, Scyther, and Zangoose to revenge it. So I don't think it's as broken as Sneasel srsly fuck that thing.

 

[Rapture]

props for the sick song choice ngl, should be a fun suspect in my opinion. I've been wanting a Sneasel suspect for a good while since it gives balance a lot of problems due to its speed and powerful stabs, and now that the meta has settled a bit from the last suspect I still feel the same way. Gallade I still have my suspicions about whether it truly is broken, but its versatility might be what pushes it over the edge since it can run stuff like band, LO + SD, Bulk Up sets, etc with relative ease, making it fairly unpredictable.

 

[Jim E. Russler]

I've had very little experience with Gallade in the meta compared to most players because I didn't play NU for ~weeks after it dropped. I think I've played games in the current meta on 4 days at most. I'm very much undecided about Gallade because of this. The things that stand out to me the most are its ability to muscle through stuff like Vileplume, Garbodor and Weezing with STAB (its also really cool to be able to use Psycho Cut and avoid contacting Garbodor) and the nice utility movepool it gets from being part of Gardevoir's line. I'm excited to get a better picture of how Gallade fits into the metagame during the suspect.

My opinions about Sneasel are more clearly defined, but I will need to spend more time playing this version of the meta to confirm them.

Also: I think it's important for people to remember not to go into this suspect with bias against Gallade because of why it dropped. It's in this metagame right now and that's the only thing that matters.

 

[Quite Quiet]

Using pretty much the same np name twice? smh.

I'll go into this test with the hopeful expectation that it won't turn into a test like Magneton's, where everyone had their mind made up before the test even began and the test wasn't as obvious as people made it out to be.

Some early pointers: Gallade didn't actually do what I thought it would in NU. It's really good at breaking down walls and punishing slower teams, but that can be said for a lot of Pokemon. Low physical bulk + weaknesses to types everywhere in the meta doesn't really doesn't help it any. Adding a less-than-epic speed tier, and most offensive teams don't have that much trouble outspeeding even the Scarf sets... I dunno, it's a threat for defensive teams, but being good against one or a few styles doesn't make it broken.

 

[Syncrasy]

Sneasel seems like a bigger threat than Gallade imo as sneasel with its good speed tier(which makes it way harder to revenge kill then gallade w/o priorty) and strong stabs make it p hard for HO and balance teams to handle which makes me lean more towards a ban atm

Gallade honestly wasn't as broken as i thought it out to be many thing outs speed and OHKO gallade in NU ,the problem i see is its a p hard mon to switch into which makes it a bigger threat to balance teams but the problem with HO handling gallade is that Scarf gallade can handle Ho if played right. These qualities of Gallade make me on the fence with the mon and would love to see how it does during suspect and what the community thinks of it

 

[Evan.]

im gonna get my initial thoughts out there before I go away for a bit.

: I'll make this one longer b/c my thoughts on sneasel are pretty well thought out as I posted about it before. Sneasel is just stupid in this metagame and needs to leave. Although Sneasel might not seem like the textbook "broken mon" that has practically 0 switch-ins, i still feel that it can definitely be considered broken because of how efficiently it breaks down its own checks and counters due to Knock Off. Practically every reliable Sneasel answer in the tier requires leftovers in order to maintain passive recovery, or needs an eviolite in order to maintain the bulk to check Sneasel. There's also the point that Sneasel has practically 0 offensive checks due to its incredible speed tier and lack of relevant priority that hits it in the current metagame (don't say mach punch cause its literally gurdurr and magmortar). I think the thing that puts it over the edge, and the thing that people tend to forget is that even if you do pack a buch of Sneasel counters, it has the option of hitting (insert offensive mon here) with an 80 BP attack coming off a choice banded base 95 attack as it switches out. Even if you have counters, it's risky to switch into them without letting your offensive mon take huge damage in the process. All of these factors lead me to wanting sneasel gone ASAP.

: Gallade is in a weird place for me. On one hand, you have one of the most fearsome wallbreakers that the tier has ever seen that can 2HKO pretty much every defensive answer in the tier depending on its coverage moves. While on the other hand, it sits at a very mediocre 80 base speed with very few type resistances and 68/65 physical bulk that is revenge killed by the a lot of the more common offensive pokemon in the tier. I personally think that people are severely underrating Gallade's versatility. The fact that it has a ton of under-utiltized sets such as Band, Scarf, Bulk Up as well as Subsitute sets (that can prevent it from being revenge killed by say a fletch or sneasel) is what really makes it scary imo. Speaking from personal experience, i remember playing my Nugget bridge match against Waters and t-waveing a gallade w/ xatu and thinking that it wasnt a problem, only to reveal bulk up and end up taking out 3+ team members. Im still on the fence about what im going to vote, but i am leaning towards voting ban on Gallade as well.

 

[nv]

Ok so here's my initial thoughts on the two suspects:

Sneasel

Strangely I haven't found trouble with this thing as while it has a decent amount of power, priority, and one of the fastest mons, I always have never had a real problem with it, but I think may be because I always make sure it can't either switch in or that Rocks are up taking a chunk of its HP every time it does. I do realize though that literally there are no offensive checks because it has priority and power while its defensive checks rely on Leftovers for recovery or Eviolite to tank hits reliably. Overall I am on the fence about this one (like 60% ban %40 no ban), so hopefully I can find a clear decision with this suspect.

Gallade

Gallade is a beast. Everyone is saying that its lack of type resistances and "abysmal" Speed tier means it isn't as threatening as it looks, but sadly the thing is most slow things have to fear Gallade and almost always switch out as it can force most of them out. However, almost all offensive teams can pivot around it and force it out, which forces Gallade to not be able to do what it wants, which is break walls. I am a bit on the fence too for this one (like 60% no ban 40% ban).

Again, I hope this suspect can give me a clear idea on "where my loyalties lie" and can make an informed decision on both these suspects as right now I am leaning slightly towards ban for Sneasel and no ban for Gallade, but I can easily be convinced either way.

 

[Steakburgers]

Hey guys, hope everyones day is going well
Um, someone said don't go into the suspect with the mindset that it should've been ru to begin with, and I completely agree. But I can very well see why gallade should and probably will be ru in the future
It's pretty simple, we simply don't have the tools to break it, or we don't have a mon that can 100% beat it. Even digging in the nfe bin yields no answers, and lets all admit it, when we've found something broken in this tier before, we always would go to nfe, and bam, something was there
This time, there is no such thing. Gallade has a good amount of sets, all of them pretty solid. Lo personally is my most hated set, because after an SD, you can wave your checks goodbye, because gallade is going to run right through them.
Its kinda funny how sneasel zoomed up to broken rank though, we never really thought of using banded sneasel but when we did, we realized what kinda monster was unleashed
Anyway, like you guys say, its good to keep an open mind on the suspect, I feel as though we all have something valid to contribute as we've all faced these mons, so no one is coming in with a late guy to the party view on things

 

[Aladyyn]

That's cool bro, but Sawk hasn't been a metagame defining threat since BW2.

Sneasel's effect on the current metagame is through the roof. Colbur Berry has been on a steady rise and it became basically the standard item on all Psychic- and Ghost-types. I honestly hate it, since using Ghost types has become a liability to most teams, since they're not going to do anything 90% of the time unless you're using Scarf or something like that. Spinblocking is impossible against Sneasel teams, there are almost no unboosted pokemon faster than it, its STABs are insanely spammable and it warps the meta incredibly. Most people end up just slapping a Mawile on their teams, which is good but also easy to take advantage of and promotes formulaic teambuilding. I hope we can start finding ways around Sneasel during this suspect test and it becomes more manageable.

Gallade is more interesting as a mon, its main draw is versatility and many sets it can run. Not one of those sets is "broken" and Gallade is generally checked by a lot of pokemon at the top of the viability ranking, so I'm going to wait until I play on the suspect ladder for some time before I form a proper opinion on it.

 

[Smellyman]

I feel like Sneasel suffers the same exact problem Weavile had with UU. Sneasel is incredibly fast and with excellent Attack. With Swords Dance, it can absolutely wreck teams as long as it outspeeds everything else in the opposing team. Even if Sneasel may be outsped by Swellow, Sneasel also has access to Ice shard.

I've experimented with Gallade, and scarfed Gallade works really well. I found the only problem with Gallade is that he has mediocre speed. Giving him a choice scarf may hinder his ability to use Sword Dance, but scarfing him makes an unbelievable revenge killer.

 

[Teddeh]

Sneasel isn't the problem in my opinion, before this suspect I've used it a tonne, faced it even more and it's not a problem that our tier can't deal with it and I honestly feel like that because it faces the slate of the suspect that people will just convince themselves that it will improve our metagame if it's banned (just like every other suspect test NU has had :O). I've mentioned before that I believe that it improves our meta, it's healthy to have a threat that takes thought to use, a threat which has some extremely easy counters to use which can also be used as setup bait for every shell smasher in the tier. Weak to stealth rocks, vulnerable to priority from poliwrath, gurdurr, hariyama + hard countered by several mons that are GOOD pokemon, it's not like you're forced to run mantine or spdef torterra? I will agree saying that knock off is a spammable stab move, icicle crash is also powerful, but it's just a fast, paper thin threat.

Now I turn to gallade... For a fighting type that beats poison types with its stab, it's a lot more problematic for every team structure excluding offense due to its average speed of base 80 which is a rather crowded speed tier. However, with that said it's probably the most centralizing threat the tier has ever seen, up there with the likes of camerupt except with an 80 base speed + boosting options, knock off to remove recovery, options such as will-o and trick as well as priority in shadow sneak. It's truly the best wall breaker i've ever seen in NU. There really is one set that stands out more than others, however it's too good to be in NU for the sake of centralisation and lack of true answers it has, the dreaded 4th move that can be anything from sub to thunderpunch / will-o / poison jab / sd / shadow sneak.. I intend to ban gallade.

I also highly suggest to those that think sneasel is broken, i suggest you just try and run shell smash barbaracle and then see the other player magically not be able to spam its stabs or even bring sneasel in for the fear of being setup fodder.

tl;dr no ban sneasel, ban gallade

 

[Facts]

I'm glad this is finally happening, getting rid of Sneasel and Gallade will only improve the tier (mainly Sneasel). Despite me only being average at NU and only play every once in a while, I can clearly see these two are a huge problem but my main focus is on Sneasel. Sneasel's impact on the current metagame is ridiculous, causing you to run Colbur Berry on all Ghost-Types and Psychic-Types even if you would prefer not to. Using Ghost-Types is almost necessary for every team and the fact that Sneasel has the ability to make that wanted Ghost-Types irrelevant and useless is ridiculous. Lets take a look at Rotom for example; Rotom is a great pivot and great for crippling your enemy but becomes useless if you are not running a Colbur Berry or Scarf. It's either survive one knock off from Sneasel or outspeed and hope that you can burn it or get some relevant damage off. This is a problem for every Ghost-Type, they're already pressured as it is to spinblock which is pretty much impossible to do if there is a Sneasel on the opposing team. Sneasel outspeeds a large majority of the tier causing you to use speed boosting moves or, as I mentioned above, a Choice Scarf. It's able to spam it's STAB's with little to no penalty. The only way to counter Sneasal is by using Mawile, which is a great Pokemon but forces limited and close-minded teambuilding.

As for Gallade, Gallade is a very versatile Pokemon. It can run many different sets and be effective, it's able to handle it's own and do massive damage to the opposing team. With that being said, I don't really see it as a "broken". Sure it's great at what It does and is definitely top tier, but I just don't see it as "cancerous for the metagame" unlike Sneasel.

 

[Aasgier]

Well, my initial thought about this suspect was "why" because I find Knock Off being a bigger problem and I have seen little valid reasoning against a Knock Off suspect over Sneasel and Gallade. That being said, I never actually believed it would happen, I'm not that delusional. However, I hoped for it regardless.


Sneasel - disregarding Knock Off - is probably even healthy for the tier, checking things like Archeops and being pretty manageable itself.
Revenging it looks difficult at first until you realize Fake Out (Kangaskhan) and Extremespeed (Pikachu, Raichu, CB Linoone) and faster Quick Attacks (Swellow) compounded by a weakness to all hazards will make sure it won't live long.
With Knock Off, the possibility to revenge it obviously remains but the possibility to switch into it is suddenly restricted to Mega-Audino, Granbull, defensive Mawile and to a lesser extent, Thick Fat Hariyama.

Gallade is in the same boat, though not as extreme - I don't see it having many positives in the current metagame, but not many negatives either. Sure, nothing counters it except of Granbull, but Magmortar is pretty similar - and there are a gazillion things that check it.

I'm actually using both mons in the suspect now so I can get a more accurate feeling of them, but neither of them really feels broken. They both have a ton of flaws (being stupidly frail - both of them - and especially Sneasel can't switch into anything whereas Gallade can only switch into some special attackers)
I still believe Knock Off is the cancer, and not either of these two mons.

 

[cyanize]

k i'm a bit biased on both of these but here goes nothing

: Personally, I don't actually have any problem with this thing. I'm not exactly even sure how it suddenly became a problem in the first place; Banded was a thing when Fletch/Magnet/Kabu dropped and no one complained,but now Magnet (arguably one of its best partners, it destroys everything that stops Sneas) is gone and there's a lot of asking for a suspect. I can, however, see why this thing is a HUGE problem for offense because it beats most offensive mons with band with no problem, which can allow it OR some of its teammates to sweep. However, it doesn't really pose too much of a threat to balance as balance can easily fit one of its checks/counters (poli/costa/regirock/def mawile etc.) as can stall, but stall dislikes Knock Off more than balance I would think. I'm a bit on the fence, given that I haven't had trouble, but I might end up voting ban if i can even get reqs lol

: This is another case where I can SEE the problem, but it doesn't really exist for me as much for other people, although this is more of my playstyle just naturally beating out Gallade. It has 80 base speed which is slower than most of the things on offense, and it also has no priority outside of Shadow Sneak which is kinda weak, forcing it to run Jolly which gets rid of some of its power. It also has awful physical defense which lets it be revenged by pretty much every physical attacker in NU that outspeeds it unless it's Bulk Up (more on that later.) However, it has a crazy huge support movepool including Taunt, Will-o, Trick, Encore, Disable, Magic Coat... you get the point. Stuff like this and it's crazy coverage/damage output allow it dismantle Stall easily and cause huge problems for Balance, where its speed isn't as much of an issue. It also gets good setup options in Swords Dance and Bulk Up which allow it to beat those two playstyles even better. Personally I think that alone deserves a ban, but at the same time offense is probably the most common playstyle in NU rn and it's SD set gets beat by most offensive teams with no real problem due to it's subpar priority and low speed, and it's other sets bar Bulk Up don't have a way to straight up 6-0 or really do too much to offense unless it was a REALLY bad offense team. I'm also on the fence about this one, but I'm leaning a bit towards no ban because it isn't THAT bad.

Another huge problem is the offensive core of Gallade+Sneasel. That is easily the best offensive core in NU atm because it literally just destroys everything with no problem. It's kinda like the case of MRupt and Typh where they are (less in MRupt's case) fine alone but absolutely terrifying together.

personally i say RU gives us back tomb and skunk so this won't be a problem

 

[Punchshroom]

Sneasel isn't the problem in my opinion, before this suspect I've used it a tonne, faced it even more and it's not a problem that our tier can't deal with it and I honestly feel like that because it faces the slate of the suspect that people will just convince themselves that it will improve our metagame if it's banned (just like every other suspect test NU has had :O). I've mentioned before that I believe that it improves our meta, it's healthy to have a threat that takes thought to use, a threat which has some extremely easy counters to use which can also be used as setup bait for every shell smasher in the tier. Weak to stealth rocks, vulnerable to priority from poliwrath, gurdurr, hariyama + hard countered by several mons that are GOOD pokemon, it's not like you're forced to run mantine or spdef torterra? I will agree saying that knock off is a spammable stab move, icicle crash is also powerful, but it's just a fast, paper thin threat.

Sneasel is actually one of the most brainless offensive threats I've ever used in the tier, due to how spammable and risk-free its STABs are. Sneasel's best attack is a ~100 BP STAB move that further cripples the foe by removing their hold item; there is practically zero drawback to this attack. "But Liepard has this too!", some may ask. However, Sneasel has other ways of beating down foes via its Ice STAB, whose great coverage allows Sneasel to feasibly threaten even more Pokemon in the meta and give it alternate killing power, which Liepard does not have. Couple that with its blistering Speed which puts it ahead of nearly every other offensive threat in the tier, plus the fact that you don't need me to tell you just how amazing STAB Dark and Ice coverage is in this tier, and its fraility honestly becomes less of a deal, as it's not very easy to capitalize. Sneasel can even take additional advantage of its sheer offensive presence with Pursuit.

I also highly suggest to those that think sneasel is broken, i suggest you just try and run shell smash barbaracle and then see the other player magically not be able to spam its stabs or even bring sneasel in for the fear of being setup fodder.

How would Barbaracle, or any Shell Smasher for that matter, stop Sneasel from using the more commonly spammed of its STABs, Knock Off? They can't switch in directly without risking having a huge chunk ripped out (hell, Barbaracle stands a very nearly guaranteed chance to get 2HKOed by CB Knock Off), and even then they would lose their item which hampers their effectiveness, particularly White Herb users. It would certainly deter Choice Band Sneasel from being locked into anything other than Knock Off, but considering it is Sneasel's most spammed attack it's not really a huge deal for Sneasel in the first place.

I get that Sneasel isn't impossible to handle since it's a one-trick pony, but it's just so damn good at its role, and arguably covers several roles at once (has the speed, power, and STABs to threaten a vast swathe of Pokemon in the meta, can Pursuit, has priority), that it's becoming a notable inhibitor for the meta.

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Now Gallade....Gallade is anything but a one-trick pony. Gallade made its mark on the meta by threatening everything slower than it (bar Granbull and Colbur Gourgeist) with its famed Swords Dance set, which resorted to many players resorting to faster teams (which incidentally are preyed on by Sneasel for the most part). Sure, Gallade's notable flaws, as many have pointed out, would be its poor physical bulk, minimal resistances, and middling Speed. However, Gallade's immense movepool gives it a worrying capability to adapt. Common ways to dispatch of Gallade involve faster physical attacks, including Psyshock, or relying on Close Combat defense drops, but just this hour ago I was pushed back by a more offensive variant of Bulk Up + Drain Punch Gallade that evaded KOes much more easily than the standard SD Gallade and still presented itself as a very noteworthy threat. Gallade can attempt other sets, such as a Choice Scarf variant that takes down would-be revenge killers and can reaccess its coverage via Trick, play around with Substitute sets, or even as a lure with Destiny Bond that you will almost never see coming because you're too focused trying to get rid of the massive threat at hand. Gallade's flexibility combined with its offensive prowess is the most concerning trait it has, and I would make haste to evict it from this meta.

 

[Cheryl.]

Yay, the time has come. Sneasel is WAY too powerful for this meta and Gallade is sort of a problem too. Sneasel is very fast and has a deadly STAB combinations and Gallade has a lot of versatility and power, although it is sort of slow and easy to force out. Sneasel for ban and Gallade is on the fence for me

 

[Adaire]

Sneasel is just simply put a brainless offensive threat. It requires little skill to use , the closest you will come to a predition with it with pursuit lol. So anyways let me state my opinion on this thing. One thing I can see being used to defend sneasel in NU is the amount of checks it has, costa, regirock, mawile etc. Then when you realise none of these have reliable recovery outside of leftovers and drain punch on regi it begins to sink in how devastating sneasel can be. It's very easy mon to use as it's absurdly high speed can almost guarentee it a spot on every team and with the banded set growing in popularity, you have a base 115 strong mon with the best offensive move in the game, pursuit, and priority. It even has a swords dance eviolite set which can still put holes in teams. Another thing sneasel does is break down offensive teams easily, being able to outspeed almost everything in NU barring swellow (which just takes ice shard) it can easily devour offense as the previous 'checks' don't fit on offense without losing there ability to check sneasel. It also affects so many teams right now, almost every balanced team runs sneasel, costa or regi and before I get the one guy saying "Running checks for S rank mons, who knew?" The check to sneasel are so exploitable to beat in teambuilding as they can all be beat by certain mons. Not to mention the amount of colbur berrys psychic's. You have colbur berry xatu, musharna, mesprit, uxie, claydol all just to avoid certain pursuit trapping by sneasel and yache berry lilligant. Overall I think that with very limited offensive checks to sneasel (the only ones that come to mind are poli and gurdurr), I will most likely be voting ban. Kinda makes me sad since sneasel is one of my favorite mons in the tier :(

We should probably just ban this thing for how horrible that sprite is... I think a lot of what I think about gallade has already been said. It's an incredibly strong mon with around 8 viable sets you can, all serving a purpose. It's bulk up set is particually devastating. While yes it can be very easily revenge killed, that doesn't stop it from hitting something extremly hard/setting up. It's great special defense makes it even more versatile by allowing it to run even more sets. The sets for gallade can range from Swords dance, AV, Choice band, choice scarf, LO, bulk up, taunt/will-o-wisp and even special. The question is though, does this make gallade broken? This comes down to opinion but in mine, yes it does. With such viability it is incredibly difficult to tell what the set is when it comes in. Gallade chooses it's own counters which is incredibly difficult to deal with. Granted some sets are worst to deal with than others but that's only after you've seen what set it is. I think I will vote Ban.

Whether you agree with me or not, one thing we can agree on is NU isn't very fun right now and the impact both gallade and sneasel have are the main reasons for that. :l

 

[Deej Dy]

Quick Thoughts:

Gallade:
First off I've always been biased favoring semi-stall and balance teams and in this meta they are completely extinct. Gallade is a huge part of the problem. Although it has "only 80" speed it is enough to severely threaten balance and stall teams that usually have only 1 or 2 scarfed or speedy pokemon. Also all of its sets are pretty much viable:

Scarf with Memento/Trick- Hello free Klingklang/Lilligant Sweep with Memento if a 125 base attacking scarfer isn't enough.
Life Orb Swords Dance - RIP anything slower than 80 Jolly to take this perfect coverage
Band with Trick- Nothing can really take on these hits much like Sawk, but are also threatened by Trick/ and Dual STAB
Assault Vest with 4 attacks- Yes, this is viable and strong and can tank 2 modest Samurott Hydro Pumps, also priority with Shadow sneak
Sub/Bulk up (Max Special defence and attack)- Literally destroys all of Stall teams and subs are extremely hard to break with 115 Special Defense.

Also no more "Gallade is just like Sawk" arguments, they are completely different Pokemon and both just happen to have the same Attack Stat.
Ban overall

Sneasel:
Not entirely sure where I stand at the moment, I find myself switching back and forth from both sides, but Sneasel AND Gallade in the meta is extremely unhealthy so at least one of them needs to leave. I cannot run my Sneasel checks like Carracosta/Quagsire/Regirock, when all them are also demolished by Gallade. For now I'm going to say a tentative No Ban because checking it isn't so hard and it is extremely frail, weak to Stealth Rock, and choice locked the majority of the time as well (Choice locked Pursuit= Free Lilligant/Malamar/KlingKlang setup).

 

[Teddeh]

Sneasel is actually one of the most brainless offensive threats I've ever used in the tier, due to how spammable and risk-free its STABs are. Sneasel's best attack is a ~100 BP STAB move that further cripples the foe by removing their hold item; there is practically zero drawback to this attack. "But Liepard has this too!", some may ask. However, Sneasel has other ways of beating down foes via its Ice STAB, whose great coverage allows Sneasel to feasibly threaten even more Pokemon in the meta and give it alternate killing power, which Liepard does not have. Couple that with its blistering Speed which puts it ahead of nearly every other offensive threat in the tier, plus the fact that you don't need me to tell you just how amazing STAB Dark and Ice coverage is in this tier, and its fraility honestly becomes less of a deal, as it's not very easy to capitalize. Sneasel can even take additional advantage of its sheer offensive presence with Pursuit.


How would Barbaracle, or any Shell Smasher for that matter, stop Sneasel from using the more commonly spammed of its STABs, Knock Off? They can't switch in directly without risking having a huge chunk ripped out (hell, Barbaracle stands a very nearly guaranteed chance to get 2HKOed by CB Knock Off), and even then they would lose their item which hampers their effectiveness, particularly White Herb users. It would certainly deter Choice Band Sneasel from being locked into anything other than Knock Off, but considering it is Sneasel's most spammed attack it's not really a huge deal for Sneasel in the first place.

I get that Sneasel isn't impossible to handle since it's a one-trick pony, but it's just so damn good at its role, and arguably covers several roles at once (has the speed, power, and STABs to threaten a vast swathe of Pokemon in the meta, can Pursuit, has priority), that it's becoming a notable inhibitor for the meta.

Yes it has knock off which is spammed a lot since it's stab O: but the fact that if you lock yourself into knock off, you're then setup fodder for any shell smasher in the tier as well as it can't do anything. Hence sack -> free switch into barb = massive holes in the team that sneasel is on.
And as far as i am concerned, sneasel is only used to kill weakened threats since it's 99% of the time not having enough power to break the shit that counters it as well as a weakness to hazards making it not so easy to spam its moves. The only thing that it has going for it is an extremely high base speed; which yes it outspeeds most of the tier but i doubt it can kill most of the tier with knock off and icicle crash unless every time sneasel comes in, it's against a xatu or an ice / dark weak pokemon. Also, pursuit is 50/50 but most of the time not good for the team sneasel is on if the opposing team has mons that enjoy setup, hence it takes skill to use this pokemon effectively and hence how I believe it to be healthy rather than unhealthy for the metagame! it's a fast threat that checks a lot of pokemon in the tier and can spam stabs. But it's paper thin, has a LOT of viable counters and is setup fodder for a lot of the tier making it a risk to use and which also means you have to use it effectively.

 

[Gorechomp]

THANK YOU!. Bout time people realized how broken Sneasel is in NU. Get this thing up out. Its too fast and hits WAAAAAY too hard when paired up with Choice Band. As for Gallade. since the only reason he is in NU to begin with is because of a error on showdown, I think its safe to say Gallade had no buisness being in NU to begin with. Thats just my 2 cents tho.

 

[Dundies]

Now, I don't have much experience at all with Gallade, but I'll give my initial thoughts on Sneasel, as I've used it a lot in NU and PU (before the ban ofc).

Overall, Sneasel is relatively predictable, as it doesn't have a lot of different moves it uses, but what it does, it does so well. It completely destroys offense with its high Speed that beats almost the whole unboosted metagame, and what it doesn't outspeed, it can pick off with Ice Shard after prior damage (Swellow). Most of its few checks have to lose their item to Knock Off, meaning its checks can't even switch in reliably multiple times. It even completely eats balance. The amount that Sneasel limits is horrible and unhealthy for the metagame, and because of it, teams are starting to get reallllyy stale (refer to Kiyo 's post). For now, I'm gonna have to say ban Sneasel.

As for Gallade, I'll have to ladder more with it, but from the sounds of it, its insane versatility and extreme power seems to make it hard to take on, but we'll see.

 

[Hootie]

THANK YOU!. Bout time people realized how broken Sneasel is in NU. Get this thing up out. Its too fast and hits WAAAAAY too hard when paired up with Choice Band. As for Gallade. since the only reason he is in NU to begin with is because of a error on showdown, I think its safe to say Gallade had no buisness being in NU to begin with. Thats just my 2 cents tho.

Can we please not bring up this point? Saying Gallade shouldn't be in the tier in first place is horrible reasoning to why it should be banned and should be looked at without that biased mindset. When you compare to Sawk for instance, it has worse abilities and a worse (crowded as well) speed tier, while the only advantages it has is STAB on Psychic-type attacks to hit Poison-types such as Garbodor and Weezing (hint Sawk can do that too with Mold Breaker Earthquake) and the ability to set up with Swords Dance. In terms of wallbreaking both have next to no switch ins and 2HKO the whole tier so Gallade is not immediately a broken threat.