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I'd like to ask something, from my complete low 1500-1600 ladder ignorance: is Rain good atm? Are weather teams unhealthy for the meta and deserve to stay bad?
I've always really loved and enjoyed running weather teams. Sun seems to be great this generation with the new Proto mons, and snow also seems good thanks to veil. But, ever since Archaludon was banned (for a great reason, don't get me wrong), I have not seen a single Rain team... until now.
If the best Rain abusers you can run are mons like Barraskewda, Overqwil, or the **95** base Special Attack Kingdra... then something is clearly wrong. And other good Rain mons like Raging Bolt just do much better in Sun.
So I'd argue Palafin is neccesary for the tier to help Rain become relevant again. A tier being balanced is important, but ultimately, being fun is even more important, and the more diversity and viable playstyles there are, the better. There's no saving for Sand, but Rain has a chance to be saved, that may never come back again until Gen 10 if we vote Ban.
No, it is not. Fun is a subjective word first of all (I for example find Sun and HO extremely unfun to play and play aganist. Yet a big part of the community find those teams fun). And the objective is to make a competitive tier, not a “fun” one. Heck, define “fun”. Day 1 meta was probably “funnier” than today’s meta. So do we unban Last Respects and Flutter Mane?
It's been quite a while since I played OU let alone take part in any suspect reqs and I wasn't going to take part in this either but I suddenly had the urge to make Luna work in OU and I couldn't get it to no matter what so I just kept laddering and it just turned into seeing whether I could actually get the reqs. Man, the reqs were long this time. Usually takes 35ish battles but it took me 60 something battles this time, definitely out of touch with the tier.
So, I will just recount my experience about Palafin as a player who was playing the tier after a really long time.
When I was running my Grassy Terrain Luna team, I had a Bulk Up Taunt Poison Tera Fin on it. Honestly, it seemed pretty broken to me initially.
Offensively it was only checked by Bolt, Wellspring, Wake, and Pult. It's worth mentioning however that sometimes with Tera and depending on the game state, I have been able to beat them as well. Meowscarda, Rilla, Zama and Kyurem, always lost to Tera Posion so there are not reliable. It just out-stated most other things and with the absurd combined recovery of Terrain and lefties it beat most neutral matchups. Like I remember 1v1ing Bulk Up Quavo despite it having Roost and Stab on it's already stronger fighting move. I set him up so many times on Specs Dracos from Pult, on Atk Booster Headlong Rushes from Tusk, this signifies his immense defensive prowess.
On flip side, defensively, Alo was annoying with Scald burns, Zap was decent, Hydrapple and Sinistcha walled it and Dozo is good into non Taunt sets. However, all these mons can be taken care of with a strong special attacker like Darkrai, Bolt, Crown, Kyurem etc so you can have a nice offensive core there so you definitely have away to play around them, and if you pressure them enough then Palafin can run away with the game very easily which I was able to vs a few Hydrapples and Alomomolas with my Bolt/Ghold core.
And that is just one variation of Bulk up set. Sub Bulk up beats Alo, Ice Punch beats Hydrapple, so even its best answers can be taken down with the right set. Also not to mention that it has a very nice Banded set too with Jet Punch and Wave Crash to forgo all set up and just hit hard right off the bat. Only Wellspring and Alo can check it over the course of a game and Wellspring just drops to single Band CC so there is some risk there. Wave Crash has a lot of recoil so it would eventually fall but I saw it trade positively always in the absence of Mola, Wellspring.
One thing I saw a bit was people comparing Palafin and Wellspring power-wise but you absolutely can't understate the utility of having Jet Punch. It gives it an extremely unmatched utility vs offense. Heck, rather than comparing them, I would literally run them together. Oger takes advantage of Alo all day so you get free Oger attacks, you can even run Ice Punch to really break for each other.
So, these are my impressions of Palafin after playing a bunch. As I told you guys before, my Luna team was not working very well so I switched over to a Dtail Hydrapple stall with Mola and Dozo for my reqs. This core was really Palafin proof together but still I faced a couple Palafin sets that had the capability to get past two of these if not for the third.
All in all I think Palafin is more on the broken side. We are being able to check it because of the monster that is Wellspring and the fact that people were already preparing for Wellspring which is kinda similar to Fin. However, I think it will ultimately end up being too much.
Honestly, adding another OP threat is the last thing the tier needs. The meta is so polarized that balance is heavily struggling already. We got Wellspring that completely changed the entire water and grass type economy, we got Ghold that completely changed the hazards economy to the point that entire tier had to adapt and entire teams carrying 4-5 boots evolved to counter teams which focus on hazard spam with Ghold. Not to mention mons like Gambit, Zama, Bolt, Kyurem which I am not calling broken but always require dedicated checks. With all this throw Tera into the mix and now you require multiple checks to the same mons. So Meta has become this chaotic mess that you have to run some offense or just full stall and even that, people call bad.
In my humble opinion, I would like to see some things go rather than adding more. Balance thriving is that sign of a healthy metagame and in my experience that also tends to be the most fun to play. Also, I can kinda see that if Palafin stays Offense will almost be pigeonholed into running Wellspring always because how else can you survive constant bombardment of Banded Jet Punches especially on Rain or with Tera Water or even both? You might prevent it from getting a KO once but you can't suffer multiple assaults from him which he would be able to do with the pivot heavy teamstyles Band Fin finds itself on. Thus for these reason I want to vote BAN.
Side Note 1 - I didn't see it ever but I think that Special/Mixed Fin could also be pretty decent. Even just Life orb no/minimal investment Boomburst calcs are really good on Alo, Dondozo, Hydrapple etc. It has a pretty nice movepool with Ice Beam, Surf, Hydro, Grass Knot, Aura Spere, Draining Kiss. Heck, you can probably get away with Specs, it literally has a higher SpA than Exploud and with Tera and Specs Boomburst even 2HKoes Slowking G. But still I am moreso interest in mixed LO because you can retain Jet Punch.
Side Note 2 - Please someone remind me to cast my vote when voting starts because I am gonna be quite busy around that time and it will probably slip my mind.
I'm pro BAN on the fake ahhh wannabe superman dolphin. I don't have much to add that hasn't already been discussed by Pais, Storm Zone, Hellom, Maverick Shooters. Bro straight up ripped a young mermaidman's design and that's def a ban-able offense
I do have a visual representation of Palafin being borderline on the Ubers side.
UBERS
UBERS UU
PALAFIN
----------------------------------------------- (separating line between UBERS & OU) KYUREM / WATERPON
I'm pro BAN on the fake ahhh wannabe superman dolphin. I don't have much to add that hasn't already been discussed by Pais, Storm Zone, Hellom, Maverick Shooters. Bro straight up ripped a young mermaidman's design and that's def a ban-able offense
I do have a visual representation of Palafin being borderline on the Ubers side.
UBERS
UBERS UU
PALAFIN
----------------------------------------------- (separating line between UBERS & OU) KYUREM / WATERPON
This is a really weird representation considering Glimmora is banned from Ubers UU and Gliscor and Kingambit are both high tiers in Ubers proper but alright
This is a really weird representation considering Glimmora is banned from Ubers UU and Gliscor and Kingambit are both high tiers in Ubers proper but alright
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Palafin-Hero Wave Crash vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Toxapex in Rain: 260-307 (85.8 - 101.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Palafin-Hero Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo in Rain: 247-291 (49 - 57.7%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Palafin-Hero Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola in Rain: 313-369 (58.6 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
if someone can give me a sufficient amount of counters not named ogerpon to this shit in rain then I will vote no ban but otherwise send this shit back to Ubers
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Palafin-Hero Wave Crash vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Toxapex in Rain: 260-307 (85.8 - 101.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Palafin-Hero Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo in Rain: 247-291 (49 - 57.7%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Palafin-Hero Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola in Rain: 313-369 (58.6 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
if someone can give me a sufficient amount of counters not named ogerpon to this shit in rain then I will vote no ban but otherwise send this shit back to Ubers
Doesn't Walking Wake do the same thing, but without knocking itself out to recoil and helmet chip? Jet Punch would be the more concerning calcs, because that is what differentiates it from other extreme breakers.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Palafin-Hero Wave Crash vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Toxapex in Rain: 260-307 (85.8 - 101.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Palafin-Hero Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo in Rain: 247-291 (49 - 57.7%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Palafin-Hero Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola in Rain: 313-369 (58.6 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
if someone can give me a sufficient amount of counters not named ogerpon to this shit in rain then I will vote no ban but otherwise send this shit back to Ubers
yo there're these funny things called chipping yourself, simply outspeeding and decent prio (literally just thunderclap or maybe gambit sucker into a weakened)
rain palafin as someone mentioned (not sure who, earlier this thread I think it was lily who gave quite a post that made me originally go from unban to ban to unban, tho certainly not comfortably unban) is 1. not as fast as something like floatzel who had a ton of speed and plenty enough power from that rain and 2. having bulk that's basically "I live every decently hitting neutral hit once"
sure you're 2hkoing dozo in rain with ada and CB and tera water but how many times are you going to get that opportunity and are those 2 clicks that worth it over a tera?
very funni tho that staraptor and palafin rain r both gonna be ordering "1 cb please along with stab(s) a pivot move close combat (and a priority for pala, idt quick attack is that worth it on starap)"
the suspect system has changed so there will be no voter requirement thread. What you need to do is make sure your alt is registered, then on showdown, type in /linksmogon while being logged onto your alt then follow the steps after.
the suspect system has changed so there will be no voter requirement thread. What you need to do is make sure your alt is registered, then on showdown, type in /linksmogon while being logged onto your alt then follow the steps after.
I have a lot of thoughts on this suspect. I think it is one of the most complicated suspects of the generation because it is much less about whether Palafin itself is broken in an obvious way and more about its effect on the metagame, which is often hard to correctly judge in the span of two weeks.
Firstly, I disagree slightly with teams having to overly warp themselves to deal with Palafin. I we look at the sample teams, many of them are already running multiple soft checks to it. Here is some examples based on the HO offense teams, since many people (for example srn and lily) have said palafin is best against this playstyle.
For example, the Latias HO has zama, latias, dragonite, and even upper hand weavile. While none of these mons counter Fin on their own, the team does alright against it. Pecha HO has Pecha, Bolt, and prim. Storm Zone's HO has prim, iron hands, and trick meow (for bulk up sets). One step weaker to palafin than these teams is the Manaphy HO, but it still has has volt, mana (note: spef bulk up doesn't die to a +3 energy ball, which is a wild calc, but only does 17% back), ghold, and lando (tera grass).
And lets check some OUPL teams
Fusion has a Pecharunt, Dragonite, and prim; all decent against Fin.
Jikozaru has pech, wellspring, and srn has bolt, pult, and wellspring (note: srn did use a similar team to get reqs for the suspect, and struggled with it against BO at higher ELO, see his post for a break down of their thoughts on the state of the meta with palafin).
Dugrio has DNite and wellspring
Lilly has acro alo, pult
etc.
Teams are already roughly prepared for Palafin, and meta teams might just have to shift a bit in order to adjust to its presence more fully.
I also wanted to reply to Storm Zone's very insightful comment about the current shifts in the meta from palafin.
1. Kyurem - substitute protect kyurem is disgusting in the current metagame due to the effects of palafin lowering glowking and iron crown usage, the extra water resists teams now have make it super easy for Kyurem to have its way with specs or subtect, and tear apart palafin meta teams sometimes from preview, we saw this a bit with gouging fire, where people kept running alomomola, which indirectly buffed waterpon and raging bolt, and we cannot have those on every team, this is a very unhealthy dynamic that we sometimes cannot see unless the meta progresses over time.
2. Raging Bolt - an already high usage pokemon, becoming even better by being the best palafin check out there, second to none, adds onto this pokemon's already oppressive attributes, which maybe even pushes it into suspect territory
3. Ogerpon-Wellspring - any meta where tera water mons are forced, will buff this pokemon due to the nature of its strong stabs and diverse movepool, you need to have the freedom of tera choice to check this while having the freedom of tera choice to check palafin, which cannot happen under these circumstances, we have a strong water forcing tera grass and dragon which loses to ice punch palafin and one forcing tera water which loses to waterpon, and having to choose between losing to waterpon, and losing to palafin, is an unhealthy dynamic.
4. Dragonite - Use this as the most notable example as its the only one on this list that wasnt controversial before, with everyone running tera water now, and lots of water resists, this buffs dragonite even further, possibly breaking it, due to its already insane offense matchup, being able to check palafin now takes it a step further, possibly shifting it to suspect territory.
1. SubTect has gotten better, and I'd add that roar molt is also much worse than it was too, however, a number of traditional counters to subtect also do well or at least okay against palafin, such as infiltrator pult, liquid voice prim, roar zama, latios (can tera steel for kyurem or stay psy/drag for fin), rotom-w can kind of fill the same roll as latios. I think that right now Kyurem seems broken because people are Over Prepping for palafin, and once teams find a better balance it will be at a similar level to the second kyurem suspect on the verge of broken/not broken. However, I would argue that this is not because of palafin at all, since there was even a thread in policy review about suspecting kyurem again very soon.
2. Yeah, raging bolt is just everywhere. I will be interested to see if the increase in other dragons (to resist palafins jet punch) does keep it in check considering its low speed for its type.
3. Ogerpon-Wellspring. I believe this to be much like kyurem, where it seems overbearing now because of over preparation. I think there is potential to find mons good against both that can serve different purposes for role compression. For example, defensive volcanion, pivot/banded ogerpon, hydrapple, zama, rilla. I think that it is much like dark spam, where instead of being so many powerful dark types you can try to just muscle through the checks it will be like that for these water types, but I'm not sure that it will be an overwhelming problem.
4. I'm just bad at using dragonite, so I have nothing to contribute here.
I believe that Storm Zone is correct in that the main concern is how strong kyurem is against palafin-prepped teams. I think the main crux of the whole ban/do not ban argument might come down to if palafin breaks the meta for kyurem or not more than if palafin itself is overpowered. I disagree, however, with:
Ranked from best to worst playstyles, this is the definition of a metagame warp, where a single pokemon changes the activity of an entire metagame, and this is the most unhealthy thing that can happen, you may not feel it now, but you would feel the cancerous after-effects over time.
I think if a meta game is already imbalanced, a pokemon that "warps" (changes) the meta game and reduces the distance between the styles, even if it reorders the strength of them, could be healthy. For example (these are made up numbers as an example), if stall wins 60% of the time and HO wins 30% of the time and balance wins 30% of the time, but a mon is introduced that makes balance win 50%, Stall win 25%, and HO win 25%, the distance between the playstyles has actually shrunk. Even though the styles have been reorder, and two styles have grown worse, the outlying style was reduced by 10% (vs 5% for the other styles) which has lead to an overall more balanced metagame. Now, this is purely hypothetical and really bad numbers to make a point. We can also say that sometimes mons can really hold a metagame together, such as gambit or zama, and that their presence or not would completely change the meta game apart from whether they are overpowered or not.
Some thoughts just for fun:
Some things that we could see more of tentatively.
Iron hands: drain/thunder/ice punch does pretty well into many of the mons talked about surrounding palafin.
Comfey: speed ties with priority gigadrain. Might be a niche tool for HO
Hydrapple: good against wellspring without fairy attack and palafin without icepunch. leafstorm OHKO max sdef bulk up palafin and has a 87.5% chance to OHKO wellspring.
Latios: can resist water/fighting or tera steel to counter subtect kyurem or resist choice locked ice punch.
Pecharunt: already been rising but a great pivot for HO and BO good against wellspring and fin.
Sinistcha: rose incredibly quickly following the kyurem ban and then fell a bit again, but seeing it a bunch more again.
Iron Leaves: almost certainly bad, but resists jet punch and rocks the extra water types in the tier.
Water Immunity + tera ghost/poison/bug: Tera ghost is already a fantastic defensive tera type, and completely shuts down bulk up palafin sets currently, as well as being good for Press Zama. Volcanion has been very fun to use and shuts down a ton of physical threats with the right support while breaking rather successfully. Its possible that other water immunities besides wellspring because of its flexibility of tera might end up being better once the meta adapts more.
Personally, I am not pro Ban or Do Not Ban as of yet. I am waiting to see how the meta re adapts to kyurem's presence before making my decision.
Doesn't Walking Wake do the same thing, but without knocking itself out to recoil and helmet chip? Jet Punch would be the more concerning calcs, because that is what differentiates it from other extreme breakers.
yo there're these funny things called chipping yourself, simply outspeeding and decent prio (literally just thunderclap or maybe gambit sucker into a weakened)
rain palafin as someone mentioned (not sure who, earlier this thread I think it was lily who gave quite a post that made me originally go from unban to ban to unban, tho certainly not comfortably unban) is 1. not as fast as something like floatzel who had a ton of speed and plenty enough power from that rain and 2. having bulk that's basically "I live every decently hitting neutral hit once"
sure you're 2hkoing dozo in rain with ada and CB and tera water but how many times are you going to get that opportunity and are those 2 clicks that worth it over a tera?
very funni tho that staraptor and palafin rain r both gonna be ordering "1 cb please along with stab(s) a pivot move close combat (and a priority for pala, idt quick attack is that worth it on starap)"
Palafin doesn’t need to do it all in one turn once he absolutely tears through his wall he can just jet punch sweep. Once his “counter” is dead absolutely nothing I switching in
This comment is hard for me to understand, but I'm thinking you mean Jet Punch. A Palafin locked into Wave Crash definitely feels its own speed tier. Adamant Palafin is outspeed by most Great Tusk. And Palafin locked into Jet Punch is much easier to handle for bulkier teams.
Palafin in rain is scary, but it doesn't seem like a ban worthy set. There are enough Pokémon on offensive teams that can take a hit and strike back. The bulkier the team the more issue they will have with Palafin, but that is the same issue that they have with the other extreme breakers. Recoil is a huge issue for Banded Palafin, on top of hazards and possible burns, it really limits how much it can do in practice compared to in theory.
I have to agree pretty largely with MAVERICK SHOOTERS in his assessment of Palafin's effect on the metagame. Palafin does not really do anything for the meta other than exacerbate some of its already existing issues such as the overwhelming power and utility of Pokemon such as Ogerpon-Wellspring and Kyurem. Palafin being a mon that checks a lot of the common counters to Kyurem and that also makes Ogerpon-Wellspring much better. I would also say that despite claims that it does not put an unfair amount of pressure on the teambuilder– those claims being based in the idea that a lot of teams already had multiple Palafin checks– in actuality the situation is a little different. There is a big reason that in response to surging Palafin usage in response to its unbanning on the ladder we have seen a resurgence of previously niche pokemon such as Hydrapple and the further proliferation of already strong pokemon like Raging Bolt, Alomamola, Ogerpon-W, and Kyurem. Depending on its set, Palafin is able to muscle past basically all of these mons with some support. Bolt, Wellspring, and Kyurem to an extent are hazard weak and can be chipped down, especially if they have to come in on Palafin multiple different times. And Palafin is fairly easy to position out, especially with eject pack close combat and flip turn being excellent pivoting options (especially with how eject pack pairs with acrobatics in order to give it a way to hit Ogerpon-Wellspring super effectively). Palafin makes Bulky Offense, HO, and balance better, both by its own offensive presence and by extension making already powerful offensive mons even stronger. This comes in the face of a metagame already favoring offensive teams.
I do not think there is a reason to bring back a pokemon that would destabilize an already unstable metagame. Broken does not check broken, and, in my opinion, adding another broken pokemon to an already extremely offensive metagame would not actually solve anything or make it better.
Palafin isn't that good. Honestly, I might use Quaquaval over it. Quaquaval, while not able to pull the same Jet Punch shenanigans, it is however able to pull Aqua Step with Moxie, and Bulk Up is still good thanks to access to Roost. They’re both just as good
Overall, Palafin doesn’t need to be banned
Palafin isn't that good. Honestly, I might use Quaquaval over it. Quaquaval, while not able to pull the same Jet Punch shenanigans, it is however able to pull Aqua Step with Moxie, and Bulk Up is still good thanks to access to Roost. They’re both just as good
Overall, Palafin doesn’t need to be banned
not thinking it's broken? Fair. It's not a cut and dry mon like people originally thought (though I ultimately don't find its presence positive for a few reasons and will be voting to ban it). But suggesting that it's as bad as Quaq (who is fringe at best) or Quaq is as good as Palafin just doesn't make any sense to me when Palafin has a laundry list of good qualities while Quaq is much too flawed to be reliably used. Fin is much more instantly threatening in Hero form, pressures faster foes well and its multitude of Bulk Up set variations are potent in their own ways, having different counterplay.
Palafin isn't that good. Honestly, I might use Quaquaval over it. Quaquaval, while not able to pull the same Jet Punch shenanigans, it is however able to pull Aqua Step with Moxie, and Bulk Up is still good thanks to access to Roost. They’re both just as good
Overall, Palafin doesn’t need to be banned
Okay, since I'm not doing a one liner, palafin to me feels broken, and what it adds to the tier isn't enough. We have quite a bit of priority in the tier (Lokix, Dragonite, Kingambit, Raging Bolt, Cinderace (libero sucker punch does hit decently hard), Rillaboom, Hamurott, Weavile) that can do well with HO teams (nevermind that it fits pretty well on veil and webs teams as well, so it does benefit HO a bit). It also can just rip through most supposed answers with its coverage or tera types. Pecharunt being annoying? Tera Poison. Sinistcha being a pain in the ass? Acrobatics or Ice Punch. Yes, it can't have everything for every matchup, but its very difficult to tell what it is. Combine that with it causing meta trends like Raging Bolt, Waterpon and Kyurem to be even better, which can be a pain for defensive teams, and this mon is no beuno in the tier.
Palafin isn't that good. Honestly, I might use Quaquaval over it. Quaquaval, while not able to pull the same Jet Punch shenanigans, it is however able to pull Aqua Step with Moxie, and Bulk Up is still good thanks to access to Roost. They’re both just as good
Overall, Palafin doesn’t need to be banned
Okay, since I'm not doing a one liner, palafin to me feels broken, and what it adds to the tier isn't enough. We have quite a bit of priority in the tier (Lokix, Dragonite, Kingambit, Raging Bolt, Cinderace (libero sucker punch does hit decently hard), Rillaboom, Hamurott, Weavile) that can do well with HO teams (nevermind that it fits pretty well on veil and webs teams as well, so it does benefit HO a bit). It also can just rip through most supposed answers with its coverage or tera types. Pecharunt being annoying? Tera Poison. Sinistcha being a pain in the ass? Acrobatics or Ice Punch. Yes, it can't have everything for every matchup, but its very difficult to tell what it is. Combine that with it causing meta trends like Raging Bolt, Waterpon and Kyurem to be even better, which can be a pain for defensive teams, and this mon is no beuno in the tier.
Heatranator is the greatest normalposter of all time. And he's right. Palafin can't have everything for every matchup, but it's EXTREMELY difficult to tell which set it is, far harder than Kyurem may be. Sure, it's not Band most likely, but if it's Taunt BU, what if it's Acro? Ice Punch? Close Combat? Wave Crash? Taunt? Lum? Lefties? Cloak? Mystic? You really can't tell.
not thinking it's broken? Fair. It's not a cut and dry mon like people originally thought (though I ultimately don't find its presence positive for a few reasons and will be voting to ban it). But suggesting that it's as bad as Quaq (who is fringe at best) or Quaq is as good as Palafin just doesn't make any sense to me when Palafin has a laundry list of good qualities while Quaq is much too flawed to be reliably used. Fin is much more instantly threatening in Hero form, pressures faster foes well and its multitude of Bulk Up set variations are potent in their own ways, having different counterplay.
Nah it's too obvious. Gotta make it actually believable, like saying Palafin is overpowered because of its insane TB Poison choice Scarf set with TB, wave crash, ice punch, and flip turn.
Palafin isn't that good. Honestly, I might use Quaquaval over it. Quaquaval, while not able to pull the same Jet Punch shenanigans, it is however able to pull Aqua Step with Moxie, and Bulk Up is still good thanks to access to Roost. They’re both just as good
Overall, Palafin doesn’t need to be banned
the younger folks in the audience won't get this joke but i remember. i always remember
but to keep things on track, i did soften quite a bit on palafin over the course of this suspect, but ultimately i have to say i think it's still broken. the set diversity of it has ballooned over the course of the suspect from "band set and lefties taunt bu" to "ok now it's using a bunch of items on bu and loading coverage instead of taunt, and acrobatics is a thing now so there are sets with a bunch of different consumables, and now it's starting to unlock the full potential of tera blast" and so on and so forth. the item versatility on this mon is like nothing i've ever seen—band, lefties, boots, mystic water, cloak, punching glove, grassy seed, balloon, lorb, av, lum, no item at all, and i even saw one lure a raging bolt with tera grass cell battery. only a matter of time before someone slaps eject pack or sitrus or something and starts mowing down teams with it. it's unreasonable to have to prepare for this much nonsense on a mon this strong, especially while also being forced to prepare for kyurem and other crap on top of it. i'm probably not getting reqs because this is a busy time of year and the ou reqs process is hell on earth (seriously stop trying to be all fancy and change it to coil), but if i were to get reqs i would vote to keep palafin banned. this tier's like a can of tuna, let's keep it dolphin-free
