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np: UU - A New Beginning

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Kabutops makes a decent hail team counter, especilly one with Rain Dance. Not many Hail teams carry a poke that resists both Rock and Water. If Abomasnow switches in to get rid of your rain, you can outspeed and KO with Stone Edge.

This is partially theory; I started playing with a Bold SR/spin Kabutops with no Atk EVs and even it kicks hail's ass, dealing OHKOs to Abomasnow and spin-blocking Froslass switch-ins.
 
I've been looking through the UU tier, and the only pokemon with the stats to run a good mixed set are stuff mostly Fire types, which kinda sucks because Milotic is not 1hkoed very easily. Charizard would be sick, but his 4x weak to SR is bleh. Shaymin could too, since it does have Seed Flare but it's best physical attacks are Seed Bomb and Return.
 
I've been looking through the UU tier, and the only pokemon with the stats to run a good mixed set are stuff mostly Fire types, which kinda sucks because Milotic is not 1hkoed very easily. Charizard would be sick, but his 4x weak to SR is bleh. Shaymin could too, since it does have Seed Flare but it's best physical attacks are Seed Bomb and Return.

Well, it gets Zen Heatbutt and Swords Dance too. I think it could be somewhat decent-ish as a mix sweeper.
 
I added a tentative mixed sweeping shaymin to the new/creative EVs and movesets.

Basically, it uses Seed Bomb, LO, and Atk EVs to 2hko Chansey on the switch. Then, you are free to rampage through the rest of the team, as Seed Flare will tear through everything that doesn't resist. Regice still walls it, and so does registeel to an extent (Earth Power is a 3-4 HKO -_-) Still, Registeel can't heal and Regice takes 25% from switching in sooo....

The other problem is that it can't heal.
 
I added a tentative mixed sweeping shaymin to the new/creative EVs and movesets.

Basically, it uses Seed Bomb, LO, and Atk EVs to 2hko Blissey on the switch. Then, you are free to rampage through the rest of the team, as Seed Flare will tear through everything that doesn't resist. Regice still walls it, and so does registeel to an extent (Earth Power is a 3-4 HKO -_-) Still, Registeel can't heal and Regice takes 25% from switching in sooo....

The other problem is that it can't heal.

Blissey don't you mean Chansey?
 
I added a tentative mixed sweeping shaymin to the new/creative EVs and movesets.

Basically, it uses Seed Bomb, LO, and Atk EVs to 2hko Chansey on the switch. Then, you are free to rampage through the rest of the team, as Seed Flare will tear through everything that doesn't resist. Regice still walls it, and so does registeel to an extent (Earth Power is a 3-4 HKO -_-) Still, Registeel can't heal and Regice takes 25% from switching in sooo....

The other problem is that it can't heal.


People dont use Chansey to permanently "wall" Shaymin, it seriously lacks the offensive Typing/Power to pull this off. Ill write more in the other thread.

And EVERYONE always says Blissey and means Chansey, get used to it=p
 
Regice still walls it, and so does registeel to an extent (Earth Power is a 3-4 HKO -_-) Still, Registeel can't heal and Regice takes 25% from switching in sooo....

The other problem is that it can't heal.

Isn't this why Registeel often runs Rest-Talk? Regice can too I suppose.
 
Anyone ever tried a SubPunching Magmortar? Its surprisingly effective in scaring off stuff, works best with entry hazards as it forces switches like no tomorrow. Its not the best defensive poke, but with the resists Fire packs, its easier to get in as one would expect.
 
Anyone ever tried a SubPunching Magmortar? Its surprisingly effective in scaring off stuff, works best with entry hazards as it forces switches like no tomorrow. Its not the best defensive poke, but with the resists Fire packs, its easier to get in as one would expect.

I don't understand why anyone would use SubPunch Magmortar to be honest. You are taking 50% damage after just one turn (25% for Substitute + 25% for Stealth Rock). I guess Leftovers can help but it just seems so self-defeating.


As a side note, it's nice to see the tier settling down a bit rather than random experimentation. I have a few things I'd probably like to see become BL but so far it's a surprisingly calm metagame.
 
Mixed sweepers... Abomasnow can go mixed, but it doesn't have the speed, or arguably power, to pull off a sweep.

Doesn't Absol have a mixed sweeper set that was used in the days of old UU?

Sharpedo is one of the best mixed sweepers in my opinion. Too bad it dies in one hit and has just 95 speed. But Fire got all the good mixed sweepers.
 
I don't understand why anyone would use SubPunch Magmortar to be honest. You are taking 50% damage after just one turn (25% for Substitute + 25% for Stealth Rock). I guess Leftovers can help but it just seems so self-defeating.

Well, I can think of better reasons not to run SubPunch Magmortar, but it's notable that SubRoost Staraptor does pretty well, even when it 'starts off' at 50% hp. Of course, the kicker is 'Roost'.

As a side note, it's nice to see the tier settling down a bit rather than random experimentation. I have a few things I'd probably like to see become BL but so far it's a surprisingly calm metagame.

It is surprising how settled things are, yes. The top tier threats seem to be mostly keeping each other in check. Without certain pokemon, I'm not sure how people are dealing with the key threats (obvious example: Gallade - Spiritomb) Even with that considered, it's tough to say how 'centralized' things are right now though.

As for random experimentation, so far the most 'effective gimmick' type sets I've seen have been in the form of random grasses who are usually special attackers going physical with Swords Dance. I mean, pokemon like Shaymin who attempt to go physical are walled endlessly by steels, but others like Abomasnow, Ludicolo, Venusaur, etc actually have decent physical movepools.
 
Kabutops makes a decent hail team counter, especilly one with Rain Dance. Not many Hail teams carry a poke that resists both Rock and Water. If Abomasnow switches in to get rid of your rain, you can outspeed and KO with Stone Edge.

This is partially theory; I started playing with a Bold SR/spin Kabutops with no Atk EVs and even it kicks hail's ass, dealing OHKOs to Abomasnow and spin-blocking Froslass switch-ins.

Abomasnow will just come in and go out again. It's a shame that nothing can trap it apart from Trapinch, who dies to Abomasnow's attacks anyway.

Mixed sweepers... Abomasnow can go mixed, but it doesn't have the speed, or arguably power, to pull off a sweep.

Doesn't Absol have a mixed sweeper set that was used in the days of old UU?

Sharpedo is one of the best mixed sweepers in my opinion. Too bad it dies in one hit and has just 95 speed. But Fire got all the good mixed sweepers.

What about Floatzel in rain? It has pretty good physical attack, decent special attack, a decent movepool on both ends and, when rain is up, it oustpeeds every UU scarfer without any EV investment in speed.
 
i've never tried an offensive Floatzel...been trying to use the Taunt/Bulk Up/Baton Pass set, but i can't seem to pull it off with any regularity.

so perhaps i'll look in to reworking his place in my team...

EDIT: the MixDance set looks very nice, though i may opt for a second attack or keep Bulk Up since i already have a lot of Rain support on my team.
 
None of the Trapinch/Digletts I've encountered have ever been worth a damn. Twice I've had someone try and trap my Steelix with Trapinch, only to be 2hko'd easily by my Steelix with EQ, while retaining about 45 % of it's health.

Also I just wanted to note some of my feelings about things that have been discussed as potential BLs. Spiritomb is not BL. I've found that many pokemon can easily 2Hko it with boosted attacks and that most of it's sets are rendered useless by the abundance of Taunt users out there. The WoW set is annoying, but it's nothing that can't be dealt with, while the Calm Mind set is really neutered by Crobat especially who is on 1/3 of everyone's teams and doesn't take much from unboosted Dark Pulses.

Abomasnow is a problem however. Personally I've done a lot of testing with a Rain team, and that's prevented me from having much trouble with hail teams, but it seems to me that you need weather to beat hail teams. I've definitely had issues when using non-weather teams against Hail teams. To me it really seems like you need opposing weather to beat hail, which in my eyes makes it centralizing enough to be deemed BL. I personally think that Abomasnow should be banned, but Snover left in for a month or so, to see if Hail is still centralizing. The only reason I think there is a chance that Snover will be deemed UU is because your essentially using five pokemon rather then six, because Snover is mainly cannon fodder. However if hail then proves to be to much for UU we'll have to ban Snover as well, but they should be given seperate testing periods.

Staraptor, Roserade, Gallade and Raikou are all heavy hitting top tier UU in my mind, they all have their weaknesses and all have decent checks with the possible exception of Staraptor, but I've found that the presence of so many other Staraptors and priority users really keeps it in check, without having to have a specific counter, such as Raikou is stopped by Steelix 90% of the time.

Shaymin has really annoyed the teams that I've used, but I'm still undecided about it. It's very bulky and the strong chance of Seed Flare getting the special defense drop are annoying, but which Registeel/Ice in the metagame I feel like it can be stoped. I'd like it in BL, but only because it annoys me, not because I'm convinced it's BL.
 
Cb Diglet kills Raikou ^^. I need to see if scraf does aswell. It should though.

Oh, I've pretty much found the best Wall counter EVER! ... But I'll never give my secret!











Sableye.
 
Damage Calcs from 252+ Natured attacker Vs. 252/252+ Defender (Registeel, Steelix)

Magneton (Life Orb)- Regi- 31.59% - 37.09%, Lix- 55.65% - 65.54%
ProboFails (Life Orb)- Regi- 29.95% - 35.16%, Lix- 52.54% - 61.86%

Trapinch (Choice Band) - Registeel- 67.58% - 79.40%, Steelix- 55.65% - 65.54%

Diglet (Choice Band) - Registeel- 47.53% - 56.04%, Steelix- 39.27% - 46.33%

Trapping and killing Lix/ Registeel is very imprbable and best achieved through Mean Look/ Block/ Whirlpool (etc) and someone with access to Taunt. So...

Sableye (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP/120 Def/136 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Seismic Toss/ WoW
- Taunt
- Recover/ WoW
- Mean Look

WoW, works just fine with the exception Clefable who of course is Immune. However, she can easily be PP Stalled through Taunt and Recover.
 
Yeah the (ability based) trapping in UU is very disappointing. I suppose (and this is theorymon) Probopass could trap and kill a Roar-less Steelix with Magnet Rise + Earth Power if it came in on Stealth Rock. Unforunately it can't do much else, at least in OU Magnezone still functions as a powerful Choice User/Special Attacker once it's Steel killing job is over.

Salem - I never understood why people thought Trick Room + Trapinch worked really well. Especially because it's only five turns.

Turn 1: Set of TR
Turn 2: Switch to a trick room sweep (Camerupt? There are plenty of better Trick Room Sweepers then Trapinch)
Turn 3 - 4: These turns you'll definitely want to be attacking.
Turn 5: I'd think you'd want to be using your last opportunity to attack, rather then hoping you sweeper dies/explodes on turn 4 and the pokemon you opponent switches in can't stand up to Trapinch.

If there were items to extend Trick Room, like there are for Rain/Sun/Screens then maybe Trapinch would be more viable.
 
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