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np: UU - A New Beginning

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Why don't we keep Wynaut, and ban Tickle?

Because Tickle is only broken on Wynaut/Wobbuffet. And it's not just Tickle. Shadow Tag and Encore give you an absolutely free set-up, and it's incredibly easy to abuse. Why ban something that multiple Pokemon can use just so one broken Pokemon can see the light of day?

Again, if you want to see the reasoning check the Wynaut thread in Policy Review. It was a contested subject, and anything said here would likely just be a repeat of what was already said there.
 
The thing is. The main part of the Trapping is from U-Turn. To switch in before they setup rocks. After which Registeel/ Steelix will setup rocks regardless of whos in thus allowing me to Trap. If I send in a Fire-Type they will inevitably switch out bar Occa Berry. I send in Umbreon who is known for Trap Passing.. in most cases they will switch out. Point is.. I don't care about rocks being up its the fact that these 2 wall a significant amount of my team members.

I'll try out PT MissMaggy

MissMaggy@ Lefties/ Lum
Taunt
Sub
Perish Song
Mean Look

Taunt beats Lix's Roar and Sub should beat out Registeel.

Lets see how it works..
 
We don't ban one move or item from a pokemon. Either we ban the move/item from every pokemon, or we don't use it.

Either way, Wynaut is staying Uber.
 
We don't ban one move or item from a pokemon. Either we ban the move/item from every pokemon, or we don't use it.

Either way, Wynaut is staying Uber.

Soul Dew and Lati@s? Soul Dew was specifically meant for Lati@s yet its banned on ladder. :/

Edit:

Though I'm not quite sure how it works..
 
Why do people want to play with Gimmick pokemon such as Wynaut?


Also, has anyone come across Hail teams with Lvl 1 Clefable/Clefairy/Cleffa? Those are just crazy annoying. They autokill Minimum one pokemon each barring Hail immune pokemon.
 
Why do people want to play with Gimmick pokemon such as Wynaut?


Also, has anyone come across Hail teams with Lvl 1 Clefable/Clefairy/Cleffa? Those are just crazy annoying. They autokill Minimum one pokemon each barring Hail immune pokemon.

Ghost pokemon also stop it since they are immune to Endeavor. It's basically FEAR without the entry hazard weakness. Breloom should also stop it. Spore + Sub eats the fairies alive.
 
I can assure you HeYsUp, Wynaut is in no way a gimmick. I was sceptical of it's useage initially, but because of that me and Legacy Raider built a team designed to completely abuse Wynaut to it's fullest, it was actually banned the next day, but early results from that team were very VERY promising. It could easily do the old Wobbuffet trick of switching into slower walls on their turn of set up, encore and then switch to a sweeper for a turn of "free set up." Even if the opponents Pokemon was faster, it is easy enough to encore an attacking move and then switch to the appropriate Pokemon on nicely placed resistances. Although Wynaut was not as powerful as Wobbufett, it could still carry out similar tactics at least in UU, and if by no means a gimmick. I cannot say how well Wynaut would perform in OU as I have never experienced it myself.

I have faced someone using a Hail team with those Lv1 Clefable, Cleffa and Clefairy. I came out on top "just." The trick is to identify that they are Level ones when they come out, as switching is impossible. You basically have to sacrifice one Pokemon to each of them, but just make sure it isn't more than one! I guess if you're opponent was clever enough they would decide which Pokemon to sacrifice for you, (the ones that threaten his Stallrein perhaps.) The problem with playing with one of those teams, I would assume, is that you really only have 2 / 3 Pokemon you have to play with properly, unless you can find a good time to bring in the angels on set up moves. That may work once, but eventually your opponent will cotton on and not allow them to come in, there is very little wiggle room and it will have to be played extremely well.
 
Man, Stall teams can be pretty damn tough to crack, since so there are so few good mixed attackers.

Anyone know what kind of spread people use for Chansey? I need to run calcs for a mixed Shaymin sweeper lol.
 
Since when was Wynaut a gimmick? Just because it's an NFE...

Also, if we ban Tickle and Encore from only Wynaut, in an attempt to make it OU or UU, we'll soon be banning all special moves on Kyogre to make it OU, then we'll ban Arena Trap on Dugtrio to make it UU, then we'll ban Earthquake on Donphan to get it into UU, and so on.

See where I'm going with this? I don't think it's a good idea, at all.

I don't know what people do to their Chansey. I was wondering the same thing, because I've finally come to realize that it'll probably be better for my team than Regice (Ice is such a bad type when you want to play defensive). I've been messing with it's EVs constantly, and I don't really know what is best. It's Defense is hurrendous, but over 700 HP allows it to survive a hit or two. Chansey is very easy to set up on though (not that Regice wasn't)...
 
To me Shuckle is one annoying thing. Only when all of it's counters are gone. A simple Toxic Rest set paired with Sand Storm, it is probably going to stay there forever. Even critical hits don't stand a chance. When your left with a team with boosting. You won't take down Shuckle unless you net 3 critical hits in a row.
 
Just like to add that Wynaut can't be considered gimmicky by any means. As Imran rightfully said, Wynaut was extremely easy to set up on any wall up to and slower than Clefable, allowing set up sweepers on your team to wreak havoc. Free turns and weakened walls are exactly what they need in order to sweep a team, and Wynaut provides that wrapped up with a ribbon on top. Things like DD Altaria and Feraligatr, CM Raikou and Mismagius, and SD Gallade are ridiculously easy to abuse in conjunction with an Encoring Wynaut.
 
I'm not even sure the Lv. 1 Cleffa, Clefairy, Clefable combo should even be allowed under the species clause. They are in the same evolutionary line of pokemon and are functionally identical.
A team with CB Slaking running Pursuit and Encore should help the team beat any subber/ghost type. Yawn/U-turn Uxie makes switching in Clefable/Cleffa/Clefairy very easy and yawn can cripple a pokemon late game. If the Clefables takes out the right walls, Slaking is pretty much guaranteed to sweep the opposing team.

can someone explain to me what this trick with clefable + hail is?
Clefable has magic guard, which allows it to keep its focus sash until it is hit, so Lv. 1 Clefable with Endeavor and Focus Sash is basically guaranteed a kill against anything that is not a ghost/ice type or a clefable.
 
I'm not even sure the Lv. 1 Cleffa, Clefairy, Clefable combo should even be allowed under the species clause. They are in the same evolutionary line of pokemon and are functionally identical.

They have different base Stats and movepool (I believe), so they're just completely different pokémon, competitively speaking.
 
For pure trapping purposes, umbreon is probably strongest like this:

Umbreon
@Leftovers
-Mean Look
-Baton Pass
-Taunt
-Moonlight

Granted moonlight gets totally nerfed by abamasnow, but against the many non-hail teams it works great. If it bugs you, just carry a sunny day users somewhere (yeah I know packing one on a non-sunny day team is a bit meh but . . .)
 
I'm not even sure the Lv. 1 Cleffa, Clefairy, Clefable combo should even be allowed under the species clause. They are in the same evolutionary line of pokemon and are functionally identical.
A team with CB Slaking running Pursuit and Encore should help the team beat any subber/ghost type. Yawn/U-turn Uxie makes switching in Clefable/Cleffa/Clefairy very easy and yawn can cripple a pokemon late game. If the Clefables takes out the right walls, Slaking is pretty much guaranteed to sweep the opposing team.

Clefable has magic guard, which allows it to keep its focus sash until it is hit, so Lv. 1 Clefable with Endeavor and Focus Sash is basically guaranteed a kill against anything that is not a ghost/ice type or a clefable.

I'm not really sure that 2 or more of the Clefairys using that strategy on a team would be breaking species clause.

I mean, would we ban Spiritomb and Sableye from being used on a team by someone who wants to have 2 Pokemon with no weaknesses (I know this would be stupid, but I can't think of anything better)? These Pokemon could have the same movesets, be functionally identical, but with Sableye weaker than Spiritomb.

If we don't allow the first situation, we also probably shouldn't allow anybody to use Sableye and Spiritomb with the same moveset.
 
Using Cleffa, Clefairy, and Clefable on the same team does not break Species Clause; they are considered different Pokemon. The same holds for situations with other evolutionary lines.
 
This brings me to the point, if Sandstorm or Hail teams remain in the UU tier, these pokemon should become suspects(More so the combination of their ability and Endeavor should be tested, not the pokemon themselves). They hinder the "competetive" aspect of the game, while being rather impossible to stop, and we should not be FORCED to use an Ice Pokemon/Clefable on our teams.


Edit: At post Below, read my first sentance.
 
If people are so annoyed about all this, I personally think the best route would be testing Abomasnow. It will solve more problems than banning Endeavor on weather teams. I personally haven't had a huge problem with either yet to be honest, but I think banning Abomasnow would be the best route.
 
Using Cleffa, Clefairy, and Clefable on the same team does not break Species Clause; they are considered different Pokemon. The same holds for situations with other evolutionary lines.

Is there a list of this somewhere? That might be useful to me.

HeYSuP me and you always seem to disagree.. on everything. Anyways...

Also, If UU get a suspect test for Auto Hail/ Sand I would like to request a OU suspect test for Auto Hail/ Sand. Sand is damn hard to work with (if only Tentacruel was UU..) and at the moment I don't even think it could be considered a threat. Hail, however, is very hard to counter but at you (heysup) mentioned previously fire types 2hko every pokemon in UU so... why not use them. I mean Magmotar, Charizard, Moltress, uhm... Blaziken. So with that in mind use 2 of them, 2 walls to soak up hits, a stealth rocker, and a spinner/ support and you essentially can beat everyteam, including hail. Soo...

Wynut stats may be awful but his ability and access to encore is what makes him so great. He works great with and against perish trappers. He is a great pokemon...

Another thing. You are not FORCED to use Ice Pokemon or Clefable. As I mentioned previously perhaps people are unwilling to try new things is why you think you are FORCED to use those 2. Point being you are not forced to use any certain pokemon. Get creative, build around obsticals. If you fail, re-evaluate your team and try again.

Edit:

On a side note regarding Hail teams. Carry a Pokemon no named Crobat with Taunt. That should help prevent stalling.. Hrm.. Poliwrath seems to be an ideal Ice Team counter.
 
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