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np: UU - A New Beginning

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The simplest way to stop hail is to have your own weather. This doesn't mean you have a weather team, it just means that you put Sunny Day on your Uxie. And when Stallrein comes out, you just change the weather. This pretty much forces a switch. You can use that time for a switch of your own or some setup to deal with the inevitable Abomasnow coming out.

Dealing with hail requires a couples moves on a couple of your pokemon. That's hardly overcentralizing.
 
Why is Probopass using his pathetic attack stat? Isn't Flash CAnnon the better option anyway? Or use Power Gem since Rock STAB is better than Steel STAB anytime?

Edit: I saw a Hitmontop set with Foresight some posts back. It had Close Combat. I'd like to ask: Why use Close Combat? Sure it's powerful, but it's not good for Hitmontop to lower his defenses when playing defensively. I'd be using Revenge or Triple Kick instead.

I'd rather use Intimidate over Technician for starters.

Edit:
Well, I suppose my set was using Pursuit/ Stone Edge so... Pursuit/ Revenge (Technician) or CloseCombat/ Stone Edge.
 
The simplest way to stop hail is to have your own weather. This doesn't mean you have a weather team, it just means that you put Sunny Day on your Uxie. And when Stallrein comes out, you just change the weather. This pretty much forces a switch. You can use that time for a switch of your own or some setup to deal with the inevitable Abomasnow coming out.

Dealing with hail requires a couples moves on a couple of your pokemon. That's hardly overcentralizing.

So you're asking every team to carry Sunny Day/Rain Dance? That slot could have been better utilized. For that matter, not everyone uses Uxie/Mesprit. Sunny Day would be absolutely useless in any match against a non-Hail team, unless you pack something like Typhlosion, and since Pokemon suffer from 4 moveslot syndrome, that slot could easily be used in a better manner.

Note that I am not calling for the banishment of Abomasnow, or for that matter, Walrein. I'm just pointing out that if every team is forced to use these tactics, then we have a problem.
 
So you're asking every team to carry Sunny Day/Rain Dance? That slot could have been better utilized. For that matter, not everyone uses Uxie/Mesprit. Sunny Day would be absolutely useless in any match against a non-Hail team, unless you pack something like Typhlosion, and since Pokemon suffer from 4 moveslot syndrome, that slot could easily be used in a better manner.

Note that I am not calling for the banishment of Abomasnow, or for that matter, Walrein. I'm just pointing out that if every team is forced to use these tactics, then we have a problem.

As I see it. Its no different than carrying a Pokemon to counter Staraptor (Luxray, Rotom), or something to take Stabbed Seed Flares (Regis, Crobat), or how bout a Pokemon that can harass Raikou (Steelix, Psy Up Regice).

Also, you don't exactly need to rely on just Uxie/ Mespirit for weather, obviously. How about Rain Dance Toxicroak/ Omatsar/ Ludicolo or Sunny Day Typhosion/ Exeggutor/ Entei?
 
As I see it. Its no different than carrying a Pokemon to counter Staraptor (Luxray, Rotom), or something to take Stabbed Seed Flares (Regis, Crobat), or how bout a Pokemon that can harass Raikou (Steelix, Psy Up Regice).

Point taken. But these counters you mentioned do more than just stop the aforementioned threats, they are effective even against a team without any of the big four. Rotom provides nice support overall, Steelix and Regice stall the whole day, and Crobat... well, does loads of things.
Sunny day as a moveslot will be, more often than not, a waste of a moveslot. And a wasted moveslot can be much more dangerous for you than the absence of a Regi.
 
Why is Probopass using his pathetic attack stat? Isn't Flash CAnnon the better option anyway? Or use Power Gem since Rock STAB is better than Steel STAB anytime?

Edit: I saw a Hitmontop set with Foresight some posts back. It had Close Combat. I'd like to ask: Why use Close Combat? Sure it's powerful, but it's not good for Hitmontop to lower his defenses when playing defensively. I'd be using Revenge or Triple Kick instead.

No, Since Iron Head also stops Calm Mind Mismagius from producing Subs, it also does the most damage to Gallade on a switchin.

Attack and Defense are relative. All the things that will want to risk switching into Probopass have lower Defense than Special Defense by a substantial margin. 55 w/STAB vs. 68/65 deals a lot more damage than 75 w/out STAB to 68/115.

Power Gem could go over Thunderbolt I suppose, it still Breaks Walrein Subs.

Raikou gets in a single CM or Sub, then it gets Taunted. If it switches in It's basically asking to try and sweep from either behind a Sub or with +1/+1 and no Sub. If it uses HP Ground (which will not KO without a boost, especially in Sandstorm), it reveals its set. I switch to Uxie, and proceed to Zen Headbutt it or U-Turn to Trapinch. I'm screwed if it's HP Water, but basically I know my damage calcs.

Given I'm also prone to using this with Trick Room and Trapinch, the latter scenario leaves a dead Raikou. Which is the other reason for Iron Head, more reliable damage and flinch during Trick Room.

Thunderbolt is fairly superfluous I suppose. You could replace it with Earthquake. It won't break Walrein's Subs, though if it's The Blizzard variant it doesn't matter much, in Sandstorm Blizzard can barely touch you.

This just happens to be the set I run. It is currently experimental, but has defused some Hail teams. If you have a better one, feel free to suggest it to me. As of now it does what it's supposed to do: End Hail, and Threaten Abomasnow and non-Surf Walrein, as well as break the Subs and threaten a 2HKO of low Defense Calm Minders. I suppose I could replace Iron Head with Rock Slide, but the lower accuracy is a drag.

heck, now that I think about it, since my aim isn't actually to do anything but wall, I could replace Tbolt with Magnet Rise. That should get rid of any Regi problems. Rock is weak to Iron Head, Stone Edge is resisted. With Magnet Pull, basically you just Taunt Registeel after MR and, in my case, switch to a counter for the kill.

Whatever, I'll make a few tweaks and see if it does any better.
 
In regards to hail team, I think SubCM Golduck does a nice job. Walrein can't break the sub with Ice Beam or Surf and substitute blocks Toxic. It also prevents Ice Body. The same goes with Froslass, it prevents Snow Cloak and does a nice job resisting Blizzard. Abomasnow might be a problem, but Golduck has great use with Froslass and Walrein. Most will pack Clefable hail teams, the resistance to Clefable's known attack flamethrower is great so it won't break your sub. Encore versions could be quite a problem though.
 
Gahh i should play this more...

And hail doesnt seem to much of a problem, if your using Mojonbo at least.

Go with the sunny day/ lum set if ya want to, Mojonbo is fierce.
 
Gahh i should play this more...

And hail doesnt seem to much of a problem, if your using Mojonbo at least.

Go with the sunny day/ lum set if ya want to, Mojonbo is fierce.

If you don't mind my asking, what the hell is mojonbo?

edit: Thanks Allen Walker ^__^. So, how exactly does Tangrowth help with Hail? It can't really switch into anything that Hail teams tend to pack aside from Blizzard-less Walrein. I just don't see how it's particularly helpful against Hail teams.
 
Perhaps the nUU metagame is just evolving to the point where commondering the weather is begging to play a bigger role in the game. If you use a Fire type on your team. Then using Sunny Day shouldn't be a wasted moveslot. Likewise with Water types. You just need to lure Abomasnow to his death and then break out the surprise weather change. If the foe thinks that the Hail will be staying. They would be more up for trading him to take out another poke.

@Demon238-
All Deck Knight did was suggest a set on a hardly seen pokemon that he has had success utalizing against Hail. Which is what we are discussing. Counters for hail. To say that Probobass is an utterly useless pokemon altogether would beg the question; " Have you used it yourself? "
I see it can trap steels and take them out with Earth Power becoming the Magnezone of new UU. Its Defenses are incredible however poor its typing may be. Im sure people will be trying that Probobass Deck. I think i will try a Probobass soon.

@Allen Walker-
I can definitly see Golduck giving both Abomasnow and Wailrein a hard time. I would probably go HP fighting. But thats because im an accuracy freak. But CM Golduck could definitly stop Special Abomasnow and its LeechSeed. And definitly set up on a none Roar Wailrein. And since every Wailrein i see is Special ( no doubt to take advantage of Blizzard ) setting up Golduck shouldnt be that hard.

From what ive seen in new UU. Less then 20% of all the teams I've played are Hail teams. Now, I dont know this for sure. But thats what it feels like. Maybe im just not getting lucky enough to fight all the Hail teams. But I usually am on the new UU ladder alot. So if it was overcentralizing, im pretty sure I would have noticed. (Infact, new UU gave me a reason to quit playing OU). But 20% is definitly NOT overcentralizing. I guess we will just have to wait and see the statistics for UU when they are posted and find out how much Abomasnows usage is. Along with his butt buddy Wailrein.
 
I reslly don't see how Golduck counters Abomasnow very well. If it switches into any of Abomasnow's STAB Grass attacks it's dead. It also doesn't resist Leech Seed at all so its a SubSeed target.

Also this would be a case where you pretty much have to use Focus Blast. Relying on Golduck's fairly low base SpAtk with HP Fighting might not even 2HKO Abomasnow while Abomasnow can OHKO back.

Also, someone was probably using CC on a defensive Hitmontop for the sheer power purposes. Revenge is unreliable, Brick Break deals lol damage, and Triple Kick just is not very good.
 
just fought against my first Hail team (on wi-fi), and while he was alive, Clefable absolutely ripped it to pieces. trying to out-stall Frosslass and her Destiny Bond is ultimately what caused me to lose...she was the last remaining mon, and had 2HP left.

but anyway, i killed Obama early on, so i can definitely see how carrying some hidden weather support of your own + Clefable could effectively dismantle Hail teams.
 
Clefably did ruin my team a lot deschain, hidden power fighting on glaceon would have done something but i was afraid it would be faster than me.
Specs froslass might be even better than the sub petaya one. mine had this...with petaya berry
shadow ball
ice beam
destiny bond
substitute

edit - i think it was clefable who took out my abomasnow
 
yeah, Meteor Mash took him out.

paired with Facade and a couple MM attack boosts...

i just need to get better at getting in free Wishes, so i don't get in the position you got me in.

and Encore really messed with Lass, though if you were Specs'd that wouldn't have mattered. but then that would be a whole different ball of wax to deal with.
 
Perhaps the nUU metagame is just evolving to the point where commondering the weather is begging to play a bigger role in the game. If you use a Fire type on your team. Then using Sunny Day shouldn't be a wasted moveslot. Likewise with Water types. You just need to lure Abomasnow to his death and then break out the surprise weather change. If the foe thinks that the Hail will be staying. They would be more up for trading him to take out another poke.

It's often hard enough to cover everything with 4 moveslots as it is. If packing a random weather on your team just to counter the effects of a single Pokemon, who if alive can just switch back in and start it later, is worth serious consideration, I'd be prone to thinking there's a problem.


@Allen Walker-
I can definitly see Golduck giving both Abomasnow and Wailrein a hard time. I would probably go HP fighting. But thats because im an accuracy freak. But CM Golduck could definitly stop Special Abomasnow and its LeechSeed. And definitly set up on a none Roar Wailrein. And since every Wailrein i see is Special ( no doubt to take advantage of Blizzard ) setting up Golduck shouldnt be that hard.

Golduck gets absolutely smashed by Wood Hammer, and since it requires set up to run a CM set it would hate Leech Seed, so switching in is rough unless you are absolutely sure of the set and/or what it's going to do. Switch in against the wrong set and you could be in a world of trouble. Golduck is not a foolproof counter, but it is fairly good if played right.

From what ive seen in new UU. Less then 20% of all the teams I've played are Hail teams. Now, I dont know this for sure. But thats what it feels like. Maybe im just not getting lucky enough to fight all the Hail teams. But I usually am on the new UU ladder alot. So if it was overcentralizing, im pretty sure I would have noticed. (Infact, new UU gave me a reason to quit playing OU). But 20% is definitly NOT overcentralizing. I guess we will just have to wait and see the statistics for UU when they are posted and find out how much Abomasnows usage is. Along with his butt buddy Wailrein.

Useage =/= Brokeness. Look at Wobbuffet. Hardly used, yet overwhelmingly considered broken. I don't find usage to necessarily be a factor, since there could be plenty of reasons why it is/isn't being used besides brokeness or lack therof.
 
Golduck gets absolutely smashed by Wood Hammer, and since it requires set up to run a CM set it would hate Leech Seed, so switching in is rough unless you are absolutely sure of the set and/or what it's going to do. Switch in against the wrong set and you could be in a world of trouble. Golduck is not a foolproof counter, but it is fairly good if played right.

In regards to hail team, I think SubCM Golduck does a nice job. Walrein can't break the sub with Ice Beam or Surf and substitute blocks Toxic. It also prevents Ice Body. The same goes with Froslass, it prevents Snow Cloak and does a nice job resisting Blizzard. Abomasnow might be a problem

Like I said, Abomasnow might be a problem. It gets access to grass moves which is a pain to Golduck. Golduck fairs well with Froslass and Walrein without Roar.
 
the thing is that every single Walrein has Roar to abuse SR/Spikes/whatever. Golduck is stupid against Hail teams, period.
 
It's often hard enough to cover everything with 4 moveslots as it is. If packing a random weather on your team just to counter the effects of a single Pokemon, who if alive can just switch back in and start it later, is worth serious consideration, I'd be prone to thinking there's a problem.

but if you're using something like Rain Dance Ludicolo or Sunny Day Arcanine, putting up the weather is akin to using a stat-up move.

Rain Dance gives Colo +2 speed and +1 sp. A, while Sunny Day boosts Arcanine's super effective attack of choice.

once Obama is gone, something that benefits from their own weather could do very nicely.
 
but anyway, i killed Obama early on

o.o

Edit:

I'm really having trouble finding time to setup Spikes/ Stealth rock on my team. More than likely my play style but I would like to hear suggestions on a Spiker not named Lass or Rose. Omastar? Yea I think I'll test him.
 
What, so people are defending Hail now?

In the past 10-15 battles I didn't see a single hail team. Maybe usage is waning and it really won't end up being a problem for anyone after all.

I've used Trapinch before, but gave him up for more bulk on my team. I'm back on the Trapinch train now, though. Some things of note:

Trapinch is like a Steel-type delete button, and without its Steel-type, pretty much every team is majorly Swellow weak. (Yes, just like old UU.) Of course a lot of other pokes enjoy Steellessness just as much. Ambipom, Honchkrow, Raikou, Slaking, BD Linoone...and many more.

Clefable + Trapinch is the best failsafe Raikou counter. Switch Clefable in on Raikou and Encore Thunderbolt, then trap.

Substitute on Trapinch, since most of the time you'll want to come in on a helpless (locked into support/Electric) Pokémon. I really wish it learned SR.

On a related note, Scarfed Sleep Powder Roserade dies.
 
Aof a sudden steels are getting trapped like crazy because they are depended on so much by everyone's teams. I know on my team, Registeel is oh so important (but I let him die a lot anyway lol).

Time to run Shed Shell a bit more?....Unfortunately, there is no reliable recovery move for stuff like Registeel beyond rest, so Leftovers are important. Hum.
 
I think that since Magneton gets an analyis, and Kakuna too, I think that one thing that I would like to see more often is Grotle. That thing could work in UU.
 
I agree regarding Regirock. Trapinch certainly can't take on a healthy one; though, with water and grass weaks, I'll more often get a chance to trap and kill a weakened Regirock.

Edit: Don't be silly, BlueGroudon. Kakuna gets an analysis because it's hilarious, and Magneton gets one because Magnezone isn't allowed in UU.
 
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