• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

np: UU - A New Beginning

Status
Not open for further replies.
LR's Arcanine has 236 SpA so you're still wrong.

Edit : Turning this into a discussion post now.

I've found that in UU the lead seems particularly important, more so than any other metagame (even the old UU). It seems monumentally important to get the lead advantage right off the bat and it's very difficult to recover if you have a poor lead match-up. Firstly, I'm curious if others agree and secondly, I'm curious if anyone has an explanation if they do agree. I think it might have something to do with the fact that UU seems to be leaning towards bulky offensive set-ups which can be quite difficult to overcome if you give an opportunity to set up. It seems most teams are packed filled with bulkier Pokemon who pack a great deal of offensive power and if they get a free turn from the get-go this could prove quite dangerous. This is particularly true since once they are set up they are so damn bulky you have trouble killing them! This is true in any of the other metagames, but it seems more teams concentrate around bulky offensive set up in UU.
 
it does seem to have bulkier motives, usually couple with a suicide lead such as Froslass, albeit it usually takes a pokemon with it. Arcanine and abomasnow leads have bulk to them, and the majorty of the crazy strong frail sweepers (Rampardos) are reley seen in the battle unless it's trick room. Even the popular sweeprs like Staraptor, Gallade, Shaymin, and Raikou have bulk to them, allowing them to take more hits than OU threats such as Infernape/Azelf/Salamence. It seems to be that bulky is the way to go as of now. The first round of Bl'ing can possibly change that into a 'faster' metagame.
 
Caelum brings up an interesting point. The UU metagame lacks fast Stealth Rock users like OU's Aerodactyl and Azelf, as well as bulky offensive SR layers such as Metagross and Heatran, as well as setup walls like Hippowdon and Swampert. Lacking all of those, the tendency of the "lead" is to utterly shut down your opponent with your lead. The most common lead in UU at this time is one of three things, with an interesting rock-paper-scissors kind of thing. Crobat beats Froslass with Taunt, Froslass beats scarfers with Destiny Bond, Scarfers beat Crobat by being really fast. I'm not sure if this is a good thing or not, but it does lead to some interesting stuff. Now, of course, there's interesting leads like LR's Arcanine, but for the most part it falls into Crobat, Froslass, and Scarfed Anti-lead.
 
I completely agree and i think there is an easy explination.

There are pokemon such as Gallade or Torterra who need one turn to set up, and cause serious damage to most teams, as Gallade in particular has no surefire counter.

The second and probably better explination are the amazingly powerful mixed Wallbreaker pokemon. Blaziken 2HKOs everything in the Metagame. Giving pokemon such as this room to breath results in a very difficult match.

Stall teams also rely on leads to not lock them down from using spikes and Tspikes with SR. Stall teams that get their hazards down quickly will make short work of any Balance/Offensive team.


This is why people i use Crobat as it beats alot of leads easily(LR's Arcanine beats this though :/) and taunts spike/SR leads. Or Roserade for the early sleep Advantage.
 
I used a solrock lead on my team but froslass is fast.

it was the anti lead set

Solrock@ Focus Sash
Adamant
4/252/0/0/0/252
-Sr
-explosion
-Rock Slide
-Earthquake

That and taunt doesnt totally screw this set along with being resistant to 2 of the moves on LR's Arcanine set. Scarfers get exploded, and the best bet is to SR on Froslass then Rock Slide(although you'll go with it)
 
Here's my UU lead:

Electrode@Lum Berry
Soundproof
Hasty 252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 6 HP
-Explosion
-Protect
-Sucker Punch
-Taunt

Here's the idea:

If your up against a taunter, you taunt. Electrode is faster than anything in UU with 252 and Hasty. If your up against an ambipom, Sucker Punch to hit it hard. Fake Out still hits unfortunatly, but it's never OHKO'd me. Protect is for scoting moves or switches, and Explosion is for after you have done your job. If this set becomes popular, please give me credit, as I've been testing this for awhile.




Edit: I forgot to mention this, but my team is weak to SR, and this is to stop them from going up. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
 
^^^ For that Solrock lead; Meh, useless vs. Froslass really. It gets 2 layers of spikes down, then takes you down with it, unless you predict well and do something like Rock Slide, SR, Rock Slide. Even then, it gets both 1 layer of spikes and takes you down.

Most good scarfers can force it to settle with 1 layer of spikes or killing you, which is really nice. Unfortunately, Staraptor is not one of them. However, Staraptor still does other stuff well. Otherwise, Staraptor is great.
 
nizik said:
Here's my UU lead:

Electrode@Lum Berry
Soundproof
Hasty 252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 6 HP
-Explosion
-Protect
-Sucker Punch
-Taunt

Here's the idea:

If your up against a taunter, you taunt. Electrode is faster than anything in UU with 252 and Hasty. If your up against an ambipom, Sucker Punch to hit it hard. Fake Out still hits unfortunatly, but it's never OHKO'd me. Protect is for scoting moves or switches, and Explosion is for after you have done your job. If this set becomes popular, please give me credit, as I've been testing this for awhile.
Click to expand...

199 Atk Sucker Punch vs. 4/0 Ambipom: 23.29 - 27.74% (Ouch?)

Also, what's Soundproof for? Unless you're worried about Specs Venomoth or something, Static would be better for the chance to paralyze those Pokemon that attack you with contact moves. Ambipom for example.

Then there's the fact that I have no clue what this set is trying to achieve. Electrodes normally pack Rain Dance because that is just about the only useful support they can reliably provide.
 
Sadly, if you SR first with Solrock, Froslass will get up 3 layers of Spikes before you can do anything to it.

Electrode might shut down other leads, but it can't set up anything on its own. It's like asking Steelix to come in and set up Stealth Rocks, while doing absolutely nothing.
 
Bulky-Sweep is just the safest way to go when building a team, and UU is still very uncharted territory. I think it just so happens that there are also a lot of top-notch bulky sweepers in UU.

@Solrock-- why doesn't that thing learn rapid spin? I always thought it should have, and would have been great if it did. :(
 
@ Syberia
Sometimes, sometimes not. LR's Arcanine packs Toxic, which allows him to beat Froslass usually with one layer of spikes. Froslass will spike as Focus Sash is activated, then Destiny Bond to try to KO Arcanine. Arcanine uses Toxic, which kills Froslass. So usually one layer of spikes. I guess if the opponent expected that, they would spike again, but if they are unfamiliar with the set, its just one layer.

-friar04-
 
Gahh i forgot Froslass usually come with FS, the ones ive seen been carrying Lum for some reason...

And i have decent prediction skills :) I mena i play Torkoal for christ's sake :D

edit:

I was just notcing how nobody likes Slowbro ro Milotic...so wjhy not use Lanturn? Resists their surf/hp electric and has it's own stab Thunderbolt to blast them back. Just saying...
 
Lemmiwinks MkII said:
199 Atk Sucker Punch vs. 4/0 Ambipom: 23.29 - 27.74% (Ouch?)

Also, what's Soundproof for? Unless you're worried about Specs Venomoth or something, Static would be better for the chance to paralyze those Pokemon that attack you with contact moves. Ambipom for example.

Then there's the fact that I have no clue what this set is trying to achieve. Electrodes normally pack Rain Dance because that is just about the only useful support they can reliably provide.
Click to expand...



The Calcs are for 199 ATK, my set uses 252. Not a big difference, but a difference regardless. Soundproof is changable, I didn't know there was another option lol. I edited my post, this set is to stop SR from going up, as it's a big hinderance to my team. It also stops the lead from doing anything else really, and I end up killing something with explosion. It works for me.
 
nizik said:
The Calcs are for 199 ATK, my set uses 252. Not a big difference, but a difference regardless. Soundproof is changable, I didn't know there was another option lol. I edited my post, this set is to stop SR from going up, as it's a big hinderance to my team. It also stops the lead from doing anything else really, and I end up killing something with explosion. It works for me.
Click to expand...

The 199 is the actual stat, you have 252 EVs. 199 is your attack stat WITH the 252 EVs.
 
Seven Deadly Sins said:
Crobat beats Froslass with Taunt,
Click to expand...

How does Crobat beat Froslass? I guess it can, but Froslass has a decent chance.

Froslass has about two options against Crobat: Ice Beam and Spikes. If Crobat Taunts, Ice Beam beats it. If Crobat U-Turns to, say Houndoom, Froslass gets a layer of Spikes down. If Crobat Brave Birds, Froslass wins both ways, but it eliminates much of the guess work for the Crobat user.

Taking Ice Beam further: If Crobat Brave Birds or Taunts, Froslass wins via Ice Beam.

If Crobat Brave Birds, Froslass will kill it. It then can be killed by a Scarfed Pursuiter, which will make the score 1 - 1, but then your opponent is in control of the battle and has the opportunity to set up Stealth Rock with their Steelix or hit something hard with their Blaziken. If the Pursuiter is not Scarfed, Froslass gets a layer of Spikes down and dies, unless you happen to be using Ambipom, Sceptile, Swellow, Floatzel, or Tauros. Swellow is pretty outclassed by Staraptor, Sceptile and Floatzel are not common, nor are they commonly seen with Pursuit. Tauros is dependant on a Speed tie. Ambipom is the only one I would expect to see win in this case. A non-choiced, non-STABbed Pursuit isn't very viable in my eyes as well; again, only Ambipom looks to apply to this example.

If the opponent chooses not to use a scarfed Pursuiter, Froslass switches out if the opponent is faster and has priority, or Spikes/Destiny Bonds slower opponents. Taunt if it doesn't want Stealth Rock up.

If Crobat Taunts and Froslass Ice Beams, Froslass can still switch out. The opponent will have to Pursuit it to prevent it from easily coming back in. Pursuiters who don't really mind Ice Beam are specially defensive Drapion, Floatzel, Hitmons, Houndoom, Spiritomb, and Umbreon. Of these, only Houndoom, Floatzel and Spiritomb are really apt to the task. The others lack reliable recovery, and will not appreciate being hit by Ice Beam, or are weak, like Umbreon.

If Crobat U - Turns and Froslass Ice Beams, we come to a similar scenario with Brave Bird, only Froslass has more health and Crobat is alive. This is basically the only situation in which the Crobat user is in the advantage spot. Again, Froslass can switch out, unless in the face of Pursuit. Choice Scarfed Pursuits again will let stuff like Steelix set up Stealth Rock, but in the previous scenario, it would be 5 - 5 with your opponent in control.

No unboosted Pursuit has a chance of killing Froslass if it stays in, even after U-Turn. Absol does, at max, 81.85%. Jolly Crobat's U-Turn is 16.73% max. No banded Pursuiter can KO a Froslass and outspeed it, except for Ambipom who has a bit less than a 1 / 3 chance of doing so. The other Pursuiters have a 50% chance of winning; Pursuiting the switching Froslass or killing it with a better attack as it stays in. Whatever Pursuiter you use is pretty irrelevant.

Basically, Banded Pursuiters are outsped and one layer of Spikes is laid down. Scarfed Pursuiters have a 50% chance of winning.

Summary: The team with Froslass will generally have an advantage if it Ice Beams. For Crobat to win a matchup vs Froslass, there must be a Pursuiter.

Addressing Froslass Spiking: If Crobat Taunts, Froslass loses...sort of. Team Crobat gains control of the battle, but Froslass can still switch out unless said Crobat has Pursuit (and Froslass may choose to stay in, though that's probably unlikely and not a very good idea.)

If Crobat Brave Birds, Froslass switches out, and is probably more of a nuisance than a real threat if you can set up SR quickly enough.

If Crobat U-Turns, see scenario 3 above. Only Froslass is probably in a better position.

Yeah, I got tired as I was getting to the Spikes part.

TL, dr: I don't really see how Crobat wins against Froslass. I probably went a bit too far in depth into this. Your post intrigued me when I first read it because of the whole "beat Froslass thing." Anyway, my point is, I just wanted to know what your method is of dealing with Froslass whenever you encounter it, because I haven't really had much success in terms of Crobat vs Froslass, and as shown by my spiel above, I can't fathom how.
 
has anyone experimented with metang yet?

Metang @ Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 80 HP/252 Atk/176 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Meteor Mash
- Explosion
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch

nets 180 speed + 409 attack which is still somewhat impressive and metang has the attack power to make it work.

I'm somewhat curious about making a uu dual screen pass team with memento uxie, rock polish + swords dance + taunt + bp gligar, and a ice punch, earthquake, meteor mash, thunderpunch metang with a lum berry. without rotom-h, cresselia, celebi, ect. stopping this strategy, it should be able to work decently.

if anyone has tried this yet, do you mind sending a pm my way and discussing this team with me on shoddy or aim? it seems like the dual screen baton pass combo has undiscovered potential in uu and I would like to find that "potential".

if anyone has used this very effectively in uu, do you mind sharing some stories with us about how well it worked and what can properly stop it?
 
About Anti-Leads, how about Scrappy Fake-Out Kangaskhan? It is the only thing that can Fake Out that bitch Froslass . . . Also has a huge movepool to pick from to smack around the common leads for super-effective damage. It even has a set in the analysis already (though that set does not look effective now).
 
Sudo said:
Crobat can carry Focus Sash too, so it Taunts first turn, U-Turns the next. In any case Froslass can't set up Spikes, so it's "beaten" in a sense.
Click to expand...

Focus Sash and Brave Bird? Max Attack Jolly Aerial Ace does 36.30% - 43.06%, Max SpA Air Slash does 38.79% - 46.26%. Admittedly, Ice Beam fails to KO an 80 HP Crobat unless it Brave Birds, so I guess it could just Taunt and U - Turn/Roost, but Crobat will end up low on health or Taunt will run out.

Crobat is also beaten in a sense, even moreso since Froslass can just switch out.
 
Crobat sets up Rain Dance for my team, so I often find myself in this situation, and 100% of the time I just Taunt Frosslass. I run 120 Hp on my Crobat, so Ice Beam never OHKOs. If Frosslass tries to set up Spikes, that's completely awesome, because now I can set up Rain Dance and still be left with 15 - 25 % health. Or I can switch to Registeel who owns Froslass and sets up SR and Rain Dance while Froslass is taunted.

However, a Crobat that isn't starting in weather, then it's just taking that Ice Beam for nothing, which is really silly.
 
Sad to say, but even though I used to destroy Froslass leads through scarfers (I just traded), my Staraptor now fails miserably since I fear Ice Beam, and the rest of my team is outsped. Only Mismagius can 1hko, but she fears Shadow Ball T_T and Azumarill can only 2hko with Aqua Jet. Fail at life.
 
I was just thinking to myself while putting a new team together, how many people are going to start using Dodrio if Staraptor gets sent to BL?

It's only got 10 less base power, same nice dual typing. The two biggest downsides are a relatively useless ability in Early Bird (even though Staraptor is usually a little to frail to effectively use Intimidate) and a lack of U-turn for nice scouting.

Dodrio - Adamant w/Choice Scarf
252 Attack/252 Speed
Brave Bird
Return
Pursuit
Quick Attack

And actually after glancing at Serebi, I'm seeing that Dodrio gets Taunt which means as far as leads are concerned, Dodrio may actually have a little more utility Staraptor.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top