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np: UU - A New Beginning

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...Your doing it wrong. If you want an anti-crobat lead, and you don't want it to be specilized, this is the definitive anti-crobat lead.

I'ts called... (drumroll begins) BumBumBumbumbumbum...

Trick room lead Pory2.

Yep, that is how crobat dies. If it taunts, it dies to thunderbolt (and might get paralized) and ice beam, and if it dousn't, Pory 2 gets of trick room, and can switch to Rhydon/cloyster to get up spikes, or regice/slowking to kill it, or all sorts of others to do what they do.
 
This kind of thing has been covered mattman. Crobat taunts, roosts (if you didn't trick room) and then U-turns, saving itself with enough health to get a roost in later, and nerfing your setup.
 
Curious to know if anyone is having trouble with Spike teams. When I say Spike Teams I mean like...

Froslass - Crobat - Spiker #2 - Ghost - Filler - Filler

Where Suicide Froslass does her thing, Crobat phases via Whirlwind, "Spiker #2" sets up SR and even more Spikes, and of course the Ghost Spin Blocks. Whirlwind until entire team is annilated...

Anyone else share this concern?
 
Yeah its a nice idea...but this sort of thing usually fails pretty quick. With a negative priority, Whirlwind and Roar usually get about 2 pokemon out until the opponent catches on and attacks the Phazer. Once the Phazer is down, a spinner can come in and rape away all of your spikes which you worked so hard to setup. Usually Spike Teams that hope for pokemon to die from SR damage and Spike Damage fail not because of the negative priority but because you are just hoping for too much to happen.
 
Exclamation Point said:
Curious to know if anyone is having trouble with Spike teams. When I say Spike Teams I mean like...

Froslass - Crobat - Spiker #2 - Ghost - Filler - Filler

Where Suicide Froslass does her thing, Crobat phases via Whirlwind, "Spiker #2" sets up SR and even more Spikes, and of course the Ghost Spin Blocks. Whirlwind until entire team is annilated...

Anyone else share this concern?
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Somebody must have because Crobat and Froslass are Suspects.
 
If you are really having trouble against "spike teams," lead a fast taunt or try a spinner with Foresight, i.e., Blastoise or any of the Hitmons. Anyway, it's not like this strategy is new, unbalanced, or exclusive to the UU game.
 
Wyzra said:
If you are really having trouble against "spike teams," lead a fast taunt or try a spinner with Foresight, i.e., Blastoise or any of the Hitmons. Anyway, it's not like this strategy is new, unbalanced, or exclusive to the UU game.
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Well, seeing that Crobat generally hides behind a Sub when phazing you would have to carry a bulky Taunter not weak to Brave Bird. Also you cannot phaze him out because he is THE fastest phazer in UU.

I've been using a team similar to the team I posted earlier and I've lost like twice in 20 matches. Includes every kind of team... Hail, Sun, Rain, Offensive, Stall, and pretty much everything else... the ones I lost I won on the following rematches and so on.

Well, Frosslass isn't even needed and truely Crobat is what makes it so deadly. At least they are suspects I suppose.
 
I used Crobat on a stall team for this purpose (but without Sub) a few weeks ago. You are right, it gives you amazing control over the game and can be hard to beat: keep Whirlwinding until you meet someone you can KO with Brave Bird or need to Sub/Roost. Crobat's control this way is probably one of the main reasons it is a suspect. I'm just saying by no means is it unbeatable (a simple way is just to use a Rapid Spinner).

In other news, I discovered a while ago that Rivalry Nidoking is a pretty good mixed sweeper. With LO the damage output is incredible. It's got a giant mixed movepool boasting Thunderbolt, Megahorn, and EQ. Don't worry: it will OHKO Chansey despite her being female. He's a great Toxic Spikes absorber for the offensive-minded team.
 
In other news, I discovered a while ago that Rivalry Nidoking is a pretty good mixed sweeper.
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Which is why I ensure that all my pokemon are female, to take advantage of Nidoking/Luxray using Rivalry.

I hope that the ladder is reset soon, I've already rebuilt my team and have been losing to those teams that still have Raikou/Staraptor/Hail
 
Erazor said:
Which is why I ensure that all my pokemon are female, to take advantage of Nidoking/Luxray using Rivalry.

I hope that the ladder is reset soon, I've already rebuilt my team and have been losing to those teams that still have Raikou/Staraptor/Hail
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You may not want to do that, the pokemon are commonly used with attract. So either way, you will be either infatuated, or hit with 1.25 boosted attacks. You may want to try more of a half/half gender rounding to the female side.
 
Relictivity said:
Woops, I was trying to not make an error and I guess I did. :0. I meant Attract. I was thinking of an infatuated pokemon, so you can see where my mind was going. Thanks. I'll edit it.
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Ah, ok, didn't think about Attract at all. That's not a bad plan, really, never thought of that before... Perhaps I'll look into one of these guys in the future.

As an alternative to using a all-female/mixed gender team, you could always use a team of all non-gendered Pokemon. They don't get the Rivalry boost (although I don't think they lose Attack either), and Attract will not work. There's plenty of non-gendered Pokemon in UU as well; the three Regis, Shaymin, Raikou (unless he's a Suspect, I can't remember atm), Magneton, Electrode, etc..
 
Yeah rivalry Nidoking can be fun, but I wouldn't use it in a battle that "matters" (lol) like a tournament or building a main team or something. 458 in both attack stats (life orb + rivalry) can do some pretty nice wallbreaking, and sucker punch makes it harder to revenge kill. Unfortunately, some people will use all female pokes and it will have no boost, and still lose 10% on attacking.

As for spike teams, foresight Hitmontop can stop spin blocking attempts reliably. Use foresight, then rapid spin, and it will hit the ghost and remove the spikes. If they switch after foresight, it will remove the spikes (unless they switch to another ghost). It only leaves two slots for other moves, though, which might make him dead weight in against non-layer teams. He also might not live to do this more than once, but by then hopefully you've done enough damage that they can't get them back up.
 
I've used Rivalry Nidoking a bit for kicks. It's really nice having the attack boost to Nidoking's fairly mediore attacking stats, effectively making giving him 115 atk and 106 SpA. Still, Poison Point's reliability is better I guess.

Great wall breaker though; nothing is a safe switch in really and he easily beats all the walls. Fairly quick, but I really wish Rivalry would always work to boost his relatively mediocre attack stats. That would really let him use use powerful attacks and great movepool.

Nintendo needs to make a new Nido family member from breeding Nidoking and Queen, and make it look cool and kick ass.
 
I've noticed that Claydol is still a very popular choice for the bulky Psychic role, along with Slowbro and Uxie. This really screams out to me that Honchkrow ought to see a lot more use, and I'm sure it will once the Suspect-less metagame comes into play and Staraptor is banned.

I've recently replaced Staraptor with Honchkrow on my latest team in preparation for the next round of testing, with surprisingly effective results. Although Staraptor is overall the more useful with higher speed, Intimidate and U-turn, Honchkrow has quite a few noteworthy advantages that has allowed it to make much more of an impact on my team. For one, it has more utility in being able to almost guarantee a kill far more often, particularly against the likes of Claydol who often cannot do much back at all, as well as being an excellent anti-Tricker with its Dark STAB and Psychic immunity.

It is also a bit harder to wall in a way, believe it or not, mainly due to its perfect type coverage with three moves. Whereas Staraptor can technically be walled by a bulky Rotom, Honchkrow obviously has no such issues, and as far as bulky Intimidators like Luxray and Arcanine go, Honchkrow can often just power through thanks to Super Luck Night Slash and its ridiculous crit rate. There was actually this one time when I managed to kill a Registeel that switched in on Night Slash with ~70% health because of two consecutive crits. An extremely lucky case of course, and something I wouldn't have risked if not backed into a corner, but worth mentioning nonetheless. You can also use Insomnia as an alternative, which helps to pick off annoying Scarf sleepers like Roserade if they give you problems, but personally I find Super Luck too useful to give up.

I've found that it pairs up well with Ampharos, who lures Earthquakes and other Ground moves (sometimes choiced) and Static-haxes certain fast physical attackers to aid Honchkrow's mediocre speed, but in theory it would also work well alongside strong Fighting types. So has anyone else had a lot of success with Honchkrow in this metagame?
 
Lemmiwinks MkII said:
I've noticed that Claydol is still a very popular choice for the bulky Psychic role, along with Slowbro and Uxie. This really screams out to me that Honchkrow ought to see a lot more use, and I'm sure it will once the Suspect-less metagame comes into play and Staraptor is banned.
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I actually use Super Luck Honchkrow @ Razor Claw with both Night Slash and Sucker Punch. It's like my trump card for nearly hopeless situations, and it works great.
 
I've tried a special-based Honchkrow, and it reallys owns switch-ins, because even after it hits something with a special attack, they'll assume it's mixed, and they'll be short another Pokémon. I found the most effective item was Scarf, but if it runs it, it's simply outclassed by standard ScarfKrows, and running other items gave me too little speed.
 
Something really really stupid good for countering Shaymin is Roserade. It's not 2HKOed by LO Air Slash with max hp max special defense, and if you get a special fall you took like 10% from the grass attack and can switch to something like Hypno to take the Air Slash that would finish you.

Other than the Honchkrow weak, Drapion / Lapras / Hypno / Roserade / Hariyama / Spiritomb is shaping up nicely. If only Spiritomb could run THunderbolt or something. Or if any Pokémon on the entire team learned SR.
 
ap13095 said:
I've tried a special-based Honchkrow, and it reallys owns switch-ins, because even after it hits something with a special attack, they'll assume it's mixed, and they'll be short another Pokémon. I found the most effective item was Scarf, but if it runs it, it's simply outclassed by standard ScarfKrows, and running other items gave me too little speed.
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Special-Based krows are really difficult to use, it's very hard to drop one Nasty Plot, without getting hurt badly. With pathetic speed it does alright.
But yes, Mix Scarfed version is something I found really effective.
 
Are Hippopotas, Snover and Abomasnow going to be banned? Hippopotas teams seem like they could be deadly, Stallrein pisses me off to no end, and what happened to the whole no Auto-Weather in UU idea?
 
No, Kaleidoscope. You can try Hippopotas out if you want, it's pretty viable. I guess hail teams will still work but with Snover they will be super easy to break. Try testing these things out for yourself.
 
Chris is me said:
Other than the Honchkrow weak, Drapion / Lapras / Hypno / Roserade / Hariyama / Spiritomb is shaping up nicely. If only Spiritomb could run THunderbolt or something. Or if any Pokémon on the entire team learned SR.
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I've always griped that about Spiritomb, but that's just the way he is. Shock Wave will KO Honchkrow after a Nasty Plot, that's about it.
 
Wyzra said:
No, Kaleidoscope. You can try Hippopotas out if you want, it's pretty viable.
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That's the thing, it seems too viable to me. Then again I've just had a few bad cradily and probopass experiences. I'll give it a try.

On another note, this whole thing happened because banning all these pokemon on theory was seen to be a bad idea. Will the same thing happen with uber/ou then? Will obvious ubers like Kyogre, Arceus and Deoxys-A be tested? Will ubers like Ho-oh and mewtwo (I'm serious, he seems like he could be countered by tyranitar and blissey super easily), who might not be broken in OU be tested? Or are they going to keep doing the same suspect process that they're currently doing with Lati@s.
 
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