np: UU - A New Beginning

[Naxte]

^Don't have time to respond to anything else... I just want to point this out:

Edit: And I had done the calcs incorrectly for Stone Edge; I was using the wrong tab, which I had set for something else. The correct calcs are 77.15% - 91.39% without Expert Belt and 92.58% - 109.50% (53.85% chance of OHKO) with.

That's Regirock's Stone Edge with no EV investment and an attack-neutral nature against the first Crobat set in the analysis, which does have a sizable HP investment (104 EVs). So, Stone Edge does make the cut quite well.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Notice he said "carry enough attack." Regirock does have base 100 ATK. It is a good idea for it to be packing a decent attack score.

 

[MagicMaster87]

As for Scarf Espeon, the only one I've ever seen was mine. A lot of Crobats stayed in to die, possibly because Crobat users just click "U-turn" when they think "switch". Obviously if Scarf Espeon became popular this would change. It's certainly a viable anti-lead and a great revenge killer, though. It just sucks if they have a dark typed pursuit user on the team :/.

Did you run max Speed on yours? Sorry to keep asking everyone about this, but the monthly stats don't state which hold items run what amount of EVs...

 

[Stagnant]

Edit:

On second thought I'd shoot for outpacing +1 Base 100 Neutral Scarfers.

Espeon (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 80 HP/176 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Trick
- Psychic
- Signal Beam/ Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
---

Outspeeds Neutral Scarf Raptor and the gang by 2 points. 450 > 448. This is "my own" set I have no clue what others would use.

 

[Relictivity]

Edit:

On second thought I'd shoot for outpacing +1 Base 100 Neutral Scarfers.

Espeon (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 80 HP/176 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Trick
- Psychic
- Signal Beam/ Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
---

Outspeeds Neutral Scarf Raptor and the gang by 2 points. 450 > 448. This is "my own" set I have no clue what others would use.

One thing. Be very, very cautious with choice Psychic moves. And Calm Mind should never be on a Choiced pokemon. So really it is a 50/50 shot. You either will use Psycic, and hit Crobat, or use Psychic and hit a dark pokemon. If you use Signal Beam, it's the same thing, except flipped, you don't want it to hit Crobat.

 

[Stagnant]

Well, as I see it your only going to use 2 attacks.. Psychic or Shadow Ball. Once you Trick your Scarf on to a wall you can calm mind up on switch (or simply attack) and pulverise the incoming Pokemon. Baton Pass is also an option for scouting reasons. Hidden Power anything is a joke if you ask me, at least, on this set.

 

[MagicMaster87]

Edit:

On second thought I'd shoot for outpacing +1 Base 100 Neutral Scarfers.

Espeon (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 80 HP/176 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Trick
- Psychic
- Signal Beam/ Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
---

Outspeeds Neutral Scarf Raptor and the gang by 2 points. 450 > 448. This is "my own" set I have no clue what others would use.

That seems like a pretty plausible spread. I guess I might as well test out for that. Just a note, though: that moveset spread gets COMPLETELY walled by Steels.

 

[Erazor]

Steels are not going to like Choice Scarf.

Anyway, the Espeon does look good, but be sure to use Psychic only after you trick, lest you give Drapion and Spiritomb free switch ins, and let them Pursuit you to oblivion.

 

[Relictivity]

Yes, you definately need Baton Pass, otherwise Pursuiters will kill you! It will also provide some use for the set, so that it isn't solely used for Crobat, but can pass Calm Minds as well.

You shoud run the Psychic/Shadow Ball set, with the Baton Pass, that way you are not totally destroyed by Spiritomb (if you have already used Trick).

That is going to prove to be a problem though - when you are agains Crobat, are you willing to end up face to face with Drapion/Spiritomb if you used Psychic?

 

[MagicMaster87]

Yes, you definately need Baton Pass, otherwise Pursuiters will kill you! It will also provide some use for the set, so that it isn't solely used for Crobat, but can pass Calm Minds as well.

You shoud run the Psychic/Shadow Ball set, with the Baton Pass, that way you are not totally destroyed by Spiritomb (if you have already used Trick).

That is going to prove to be a problem though - when you are agains Crobat, are you willing to end up face to face with Drapion/Spiritomb if you used Psychic?

If he runs Trick/BP/Shadow Ball/Psychic, then most Darks will wall it as well... I think Signal Beam would be better over Shadow Ball.

 

[Relictivity]

I suppose you could also just choose to drop BP and run Signal Beam... but Spiritomb will be Espeon's demise, so... I say Magic Master probably has the right idea. Shadow Ball will have to go.

Anyways, I think that we have kind of gone off topic a tiny bit, so yeah, um... you get the idea. : )

 

[MagicMaster87]

I suppose you could also just choose to drop BP and run Signal Beam... but Spiritomb will be Espeon's demise, so... I say Magic Master probably has the right idea. Shadow Ball will have to go.

Anyways, I think that we have kind of gone off topic a tiny bit, so yeah, um... you get the idea. : )

Haha, well, this is the general UU discussion topic. Doesn't have to be all about Crobat. :P

Speaking of Crobat (LOLIRONY), I've given up on a Scarfbat set... I didn't realize how badly Crobat's physical movepool sucks, and it doesn't have a good enough base SAtk to run a special set effectively... Oh well, guess I'll just stick with my usual Lum Berry lead.

 

[Stagnant]

Pursuiters aren't common so I wouldn't worry to much about them. Speaking of Pursuit Staraptor is the king at forcing switches yet no one utilizes this opportunity to simply pick them off ass they leave. Any reason for this?

 

[Relictivity]

Pursuiters aren't common so I wouldn't worry to much about them. Speaking of Pursuit Staraptor is the king at forcing switches yet no one utilizes this opportunity to simply pick them off ass they leave. Any reason for this?

I don't know though I would guess it would be because of the power of Band and Substitute/Roost versions. People would rather pursuit with things like Tomb (though even that is not to common).

 

[Chou Toshio]

Hidden Power Fighting is always worth a shot imo. I think I'd rather do an impression of Specs-Jolt here. Even without specs, Modest will still hit like a truck with 130 sp.ATK, and Coverage is important.

Espeon
@Choice Scarf
Modest
74HP / 180 Speed / 252 sp.ATK
IVs : 31 / 31 / 30 / 30 / 30 / 30
-Psychic
-Shadowball
-Hidden Power Fighting
-Baton Pass / Trick

I'd rather go Baton Pass I think. Espeon could potentially imitate Azelf's favorite attack set up with grass knot/hp fire as well.

 

[Erazor]

Pursuiters aren't common so I wouldn't worry to much about them. Speaking of Pursuit Staraptor is the king at forcing switches yet no one utilizes this opportunity to simply pick them off ass they leave. Any reason for this?

Staraptor's Pursuit just isn't strong enough, even on fleeing pokemon. Its just an inferior option over U-Turn/Quick Attack, and it doesn't add any coverage, except for hitting Rotom.

On the subject of Espeon... how viable is EspyJump in UU? Or, for that matter, has anyone had experience with Baton Passing teams in UU in general? I'm thinking of trying out one and I'd like help...

 

[Scoopapa]

I just ran
Modest @ Choice Specs
252 Spe / 252 SpA
Psychic
Signal Beam
Hidden Power Fighting
Trick

It doesn't just beat Crobat. It also outspeeds and OHKO's scarf Roserade, Staraptor (edit: only about 1/3 of the time :/), and Swellow. It 2HKO's and usually comes out on top against Typhlosion, Froslass (if it spikes, or only has ice beam), and Electrode. Signal Beam won't stop Uxie from setting up, though, and HP fight won't do very impressive damage to Registeel (I think it 3HKO's if its all physical).

I suppose I could drop some speed. Here is what full speed does that 176 doesn't, so you can decide if it's worth it: It allows you to beat +natured Omastar, Relicanth, and Exeggutor in favorable weather.
It also allows you to outspeed +1 +natured Arcanine, Chatot, Drapion, Furret, Jynx, Kangaskahn, Leafeon, Lumineon, Minun, Moltres, Mr. Mime, Pacharisu, Plusie, Primape, Roserade, Rotom, Sharpedo, Uxie, Venomoth, Xatu, and Zangoose. Most of these things probably run neutral if they are scarfed, but you might run into a salac zangoose or something.

Pursuiters are kind of rare, but they are out there (Spiritomb is usually crotomb, but Honchcrow usually has it.) It only got Pursuited once when I used it. Unfortunately when it happens, it blows. Might be good to have a fighter that can force out a dark and take advantage of the switch, so you can try to salvage momentum if this happens.

 

[Stagnant]

From what I've seen Baton Pass an Agility to Ursarang, Marowack, and even Belly Zard and it's pretty much gg.

Edit:

I'm liking this Scarf Espeon :3

 

[Chou Toshio]

I've seen Swords Dance + Agility Gligar --> Bibarel a couple of times (and even got swept by it once xD)

 

[Relictivity]

All this talk about Agility makes me wonder if Trick Room is the most efficient way to run my pokemon : D. I'll check it out.

 

[Vrolok]

Has anyone thought of Sneasel as a lead? It has base 115 speed and Inner Focus, which could help against Fake Out if used with a sash. I'm thinking:

Sneasel @ Focus Sash/Lum Berry
252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 SpD
Fake Out/Taunt
Sword Dance
Pursuit
Ice Shard

 

[Stagnant]

All this talk about Agility makes me wonder if Trick Room is the most efficient way to run my pokemon : D. I'll check it out.

Mesprit @ Life Orb/ Leftovers/ Lum
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SAtk
Quiet nature, 0 Spd IV
- U-turn
- Psychic
- Trick Room
- Healing Wish
---

She's Bulky and has high attack stats.. the perfect Trick Roomer. What makes her even better is that she can "pass" the Trick Room via U-Turn OR Healing Wish. Healing Wish worked nicely for me when I used my Trick Room team that ended being based around Ursarang. Life Orb Psychic hurts as well.

Edit:

Has anyone thought of Sneasel as a lead? It has base 115 speed and Inner Focus, which could help against Fake Out if used with a sash. I'm thinking:

Sneasel @ Focus Sash/Lum Berry
252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 SpD
Fake Out/Taunt
Sword Dance
Pursuit
Ice Shard

Looks good on paper, but with low base power moves, even when stabbed and given Swords Dance, can only take you so far and also lets not forget to mention the type coverage is pretty bad (Hello, Registeel), unless you somehow saved it for late game. Also your not making use of his wonderful ability, Inner Focus. I was thinking something like.. (I don't mean to sound mean... if I come off that way)

Sneasel @ Focus Sash
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 SDef
Jolly nature
- Fake Out
- Taunt/ Pursuit
- Counter
- Ice Punch/ Ice Shard
---

Fake Out breaks Sashes, Taunt or Pursuit for Froslass, Counter + Inner Focus = Dead Ambipom, and finally Ice Punch or Ice Shard for attacking purposes. Couple this with Flash Fire Pokemon and/ or Bulky Water Poke and Anti-Lead Arcanine is no longer a problem.

 

[Chou Toshio]

froslass is going to be history soon anyway. xD

 

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

Again, U-Turn to another pokemon is not really "predictable". You now have to deal with that pokemon instead. It's kind of useless to predict U-Turn if you don't know what it is going to switch too.

That's a point in favour of the move U-turn itself, not Crobat. Plus, if you look back to what I said earlier in the post, there is no such thing as a risk-free scout with U-turn when the opponent has an Ampharos to bring in comfortably every time.

I'm not sure "overcentralization" is considred an OK argument now, because of vagueness, however i would have to say that if you are being forced to run something (Steelix would be OK, but not Kabutops as a lead) this unusual to deal with Crobat, I would say that meets the definition.

No, it's called 'playing the metagame'. I'm using these Pokemon because they work well and help me win a high proportion of my matches. And I'm not being 'forced' to run anything. Different Pokemon suit different teams. Nothing wrong with using Kabutops either, whether it be leading or otherwise, as it has obvious unique selling points in its typing and combination of offensive / support moves.

 

[Mattman324]

Mods, could you kill this post for me