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np: UU - Higher Ground

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Exclamation Point said:
Well, speak for yourselves. I can argue that I use the most diverse teams in UU including uses of Jynx (who is freaking amazing), Mixdoom, Wigglytuff... and so on. Last night I had so many sweeps with SD Jumpluff it was ridiculous. With most teams I make I can keep a healthy win record to. From my perspective, everyone realitively uses the same team and its rather boring...
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Original teams and competitive battling never went hand in hand; no surprise to me. Everyone uses the same kind of Roserade/Registeel/Milo/Mega combination because, granted, they work the best. But they've become so fucking boring to play (and face).

Over the last month I used stuff like SD Pinsir, Lead Dodrio, and freakin MAGCARGO who is just awesome burning the likes of Ambipom and Kanga with Flame Body.

I'm really interested in your Wigglytuff set. I always wanted to put one into a team of mine.
 
Yeah, using the same pokes over and over is annoying, i almost never use them except for a few times

I use a Lead Scyther with Substitute/Swords Dance/Aerial Ace/Reversal and it does surprisingly great. 80% of the time he takes 2 pokes out, sometimes even 3.
Not everyone expects that, especially when they try to put me to sleep. And most of the time Registeel comes out thinking he's gonna wall Scyther just to get OHKO by Reversal. Steelix also( but sometimes he can survive a SD Reversal)

In another team i use a Reflect/Roost/Calm Mind/Psychic Xatu, and he does great too (but everytime a dark poke appears and ruins my fun). Synchronize is somewhat useful too.
 
man, mismagius gets nasty plot now via heartgold and soulsilver...Once shoddy updates with those moves, expect lots of those.
 
Theorymon time.

Timid max SpA +2 Shadow Ball vs. 252/116+ Spiritomb = 57.24% - 67.43%

So the most specially defensive Spiritomb you'll likely see is 2HKO'd. You can Sucker Punch, but it'll most likely use Sub.

Timid max SpA +2 HP Fighting vs 252/156+ Registeel = 42.03% - 49.45%

JUST misses out on the 2HKO with SR and Lefties. But Regi is hardly ever at full health, so you can say that Mismagius safely 2HKO's while Registeel cannot OHKO back. Best he can hope for is to paralyze it but if Missy runs sub then you screwed yourself over even more.

Timid max SpA +2 HP Fighting vs 252/252+ Clefable = 52.03% - 61.42%

All Clefable that run Toxic/Flame Orb are 2HKO'd. Lefties variants have a small chance to survive 2 hits. Clefable can atleast surive one hit, Encore, then go to a Pursuiter like Spiritomb, but that's really all it can do.

Timid max SpA +2 Thunderbolt vs 252/4 Milotic = 75.13% - 88.32%

So even Haze variants are fucked. Anyway with the ammount of Thunderbolt Missy's nowadays Milotic makes a shaky check.

Timid max SpA +2 Shadow Ball vs 252/216+ Altaria = 46.05% - 54.24%

2HKO with SR, 3HKO without. It's not like Altaria is gonna do anything back to Missy so it's still not a good check.

Timid max SpA +2 Thunderbolt vs 252/244+ Drapion = 45.35% - 53.49%

Pretty high chance to 2HKO with SR, and with no attack investment, Crunch doesn't OHKO Missy.

So, it seems the only reliable way to take out Nasty Plot Missy is to revenge it with a quicker poke/scarfer/or with priority like Sucker Punch.
 
The impact won't be huge imo, but its definitely gear towards standard. I assume Nasty Plot and three attacks will be standard. Nasty Plot / Shadow Ball / Thunderbolt / Hidden Power Fighting. The bigger problem is BD + aqua Jet Azumarill (if confirmed).

Several things not being disucssed: Brave Bird on Honckrow. Now has potential to rip through Milotic for the clean 2HKO, thoughts?
 
Regarding Missy, a lot may depend on whether Chansey gets Encore through Move Tutor. Still, there may be a rise in the usage of Haze Altaria, Jumpluff etc, and more priority than ever before. Fortunately, HGSS has brought a large increase in that as well.

Pure speculation though. Nobody can truly predict what implications NP Missy will have for the metagame.

Several things not being disucssed: Brave Bird on Honckrow. Now has potential to rip through Milotic for the clean 2HKO, thoughts?
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Brave Bird would certainly help Honchkrow in the stallbreaking department, even if it means it will be killing itself a lot more in the process. I think LO Brave Bird + Superpower can 2HKO Regi too, so a bit less prediction required in certain circumstances too maybe.
 
Between recoil, SR damage and Krow's sub-par speed and defenses, I'm thinking Brave Bird won't help all that much. Sure it gets the 2HKO on Milotic, but it is still susceptible to the same bunch of counters as before (Donphan, Regirock/Steel, anything faster with Sub) and even after it kills Milo it is going to be in shit condition. Basically a one for one deal, which is kind of a double-edged sword. Still, makes things a little scarier switching into it, I suppose.

Also: Agility Parasect means super fast Spore! Broken yet?
 
Any thoughts on our potential UU Pokemon Aggron? Speculation right now, Aggron is a potent force in the UU tier now thanks to Head Smash. Adamant + Polish with Life Orb is deadly as Head Smash deals a max of 77.92% on 252 / 252 Milotic. Deals a minimum of 52.23% on 252 / 252 Slowbro. It has Aqua Tail to hit Donphan who resist Head Smash - although not a wise idea to attack it when its HP is high. Whats worst is that its 180 Def can take priority from Azumarill and such.

Aggron
@ Life Orb
Adamant Nature (Atk+ / SpA-)
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

- Rock Polish
- Head Smash
- Aqua Tail
- Earthquake / Bullet Punch
 
Curious to know why we are even bothering with Bold Voting when the next process is probably going to be letting in several BL's at once.
 
Any thoughts on our potential UU Pokemon Aggron? Speculation right now, Aggron is a potent force in the UU tier now thanks to Head Smash. Adamant + Polish with Life Orb is deadly as Head Smash deals a max of 77.92% on 252 / 252 Milotic. Deals a minimum of 52.23% on 252 / 252 Slowbro. It has Aqua Tail to hit Donphan who resist Head Smash - although not a wise idea to attack it when its HP is high. Whats worst is that its 180 Def can take priority from Azumarill and such.

Aggron
@ Life Orb
Adamant Nature (Atk+ / SpA-)
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

- Rock Polish
- Head Smash
- Aqua Tail
- Earthquake / Bullet Punch
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I also see simple Choice Bander being quite effective with Head Smash. Some damage calculatios by Libelldra Calculator.

Adamant Head Smash vs Max/Max Milotic
76% - 90% 15% to OHKO with SR up. Wow, this has a chance to OHKO Max/Max Milotic. Even CB Rhyperior looks sad compared to this. And with Max Speed you outspeed Max/Max Def Milotic by... 1 point ;).

Adamant Head Smash vs Standard Defensive Tangrowth
56% - 65% - Clear 2OHKO and you can easily outspeed defensive Tangrowth.

Adamant Head Smash vs Max/Max Slowbro
61% - 72% - Clear 2OHKO and Slowbro is slower then you, so... yeah ;).

Adamant Aqua Tail vs Max/Max Donphan
47% - 56% - 2OHKO with SR up and there's still a chance for 2OHKO even without SR. Like with Tangrowth, you can easily outspeed defensive Donphan.

Adamant Earthquake vs Max HP Steelix
49% - 58% - 2OHKO with SR up and still a good chance for it without SR up. Also, you're faster then Steelix ;). With Aqua Tail, you still have a really good 77% to 2OHKO Steelix with SR up.

Nidoqueen also is 2OHKOed like Steelix by both Aqua Tail and Earthquake. Also 40 speed variants are slower then Max Speed Aggron. Heck, Aggron needs only 172 Speed EVs with Adamant nature to outspeed 40 speed Relaxed Nidoqueen.

Hmmm... for me in other words if you'll get Aggron on battlefield (and with his titanic defence and really good resistances it won't be that hard) you must predict or something will die ;). I prefer to use Aggron with Head Smash as a Choice Bander then CB Rhyperior if it drops to UU.
 
tbh I don't see what the fuss about Aggron is. Relicanth has slightly less attack in exchange for arguably better UU typing (resistance to fire while still keeping normal and flying resist plus no awful fighting and ground 4x weaknesses) and STAB waterfall. 100/130 defenses are comparable to 70/180 too.
 
Another thing that could be said about Aggron is that, should it become popular, there will be a HUGE increase in Brick Break use on Ambipom. I mean, giving such a powerful threat free hits on your team consistently will not be smart in any player's book.

Also, all this excitement regarding the new moves from HGSS has kinda quenched my desire to keep laddering until the changes are made. I know I shouldn't feel like that, but I do. I was probably going to abstain from the voting anyway, but it is weird how something like this can have that effect on you. Is it just me that feels this way?
 
whistle said:
tbh I don't see what the fuss about Aggron is. Relicanth has slightly less attack in exchange for arguably better UU typing (resistance to fire while still keeping normal and flying resist plus no awful fighting and ground 4x weaknesses) and STAB waterfall. 100/130 defenses are comparable to 70/180 too.
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Mainly cause' some of the physical wall in the tier carry a Grass-type move, which screw around with Relicanth.
 
Aromatherapy Clefable would make the influx worse because no longer can you rely on prediction on countering these new threats by simply statusing them.

Either way, it's now the god of support since it can now be a cleric.
 
Garganator said:
I also see simple Choice Bander being quite effective with Head Smash. Some damage calculatios by Libelldra Calculator.

Adamant Head Smash vs Max/Max Milotic
76% - 90% 15% to OHKO with SR up. Wow, this has a chance to OHKO Max/Max Milotic. Even CB Rhyperior looks sad compared to this. And with Max Speed you outspeed Max/Max Def Milotic by... 1 point ;).

Adamant Head Smash vs Standard Defensive Tangrowth
56% - 65% - Clear 2OHKO and you can easily outspeed defensive Tangrowth.

Adamant Head Smash vs Max/Max Slowbro
61% - 72% - Clear 2OHKO and Slowbro is slower then you, so... yeah ;).

Adamant Aqua Tail vs Max/Max Donphan
47% - 56% - 2OHKO with SR up and there's still a chance for 2OHKO even without SR. Like with Tangrowth, you can easily outspeed defensive Donphan.

Adamant Earthquake vs Max HP Steelix
49% - 58% - 2OHKO with SR up and still a good chance for it without SR up. Also, you're faster then Steelix ;). With Aqua Tail, you still have a really good 77% to 2OHKO Steelix with SR up.

Nidoqueen also is 2OHKOed like Steelix by both Aqua Tail and Earthquake. Also 40 speed variants are slower then Max Speed Aggron. Heck, Aggron needs only 172 Speed EVs with Adamant nature to outspeed 40 speed Relaxed Nidoqueen.

Hmmm... for me in other words if you'll get Aggron on battlefield (and with his titanic defence and really good resistances it won't be that hard) you must predict or something will die ;). I prefer to use Aggron with Head Smash as a Choice Bander then CB Rhyperior if it drops to UU.
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Yeah, Torterra says hello.
 
Yeah, Torterra says hello.
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As Age of Kings said Aggron learns Ice Punch :D. And it's worth a shot, even if only for Torterra. I didn't even bother to post calculation for this as it's a clear kill. So yeah, nothing defensive can switch safely on CB Aggron if you predict right.
 
Garganator said:
As Age of Kings said Aggron learns Ice Punch :D. And it's worth a shot, even if only for Torterra. I didn't even bother to post calculation for this as it's a clear kill. So yeah, nothing defensive can switch safely on CB Aggron if you predict right.
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My last post explains why this will rarely be the case, and this can be said for many pokemon in UU atm.
 
My last post explains why this will rarely be the case, and this can be said for many pokemon in UU atm.
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Yeah, I get your point, but nothing hurts you for taking Ice Punch into your moveset when you have a free moveslot anyway (as Head Smash/Aqua Tail/Earthquake OHKO or 2OHKO everything you need with only little exception of Torterra, which Ice Punch easily fixes in last slot).
 
Let's not forget that Quagsire gets Recover now, so it may well be a more viable defensive Pokemon. Besides, the whole 'no safe switch' thing can apply to many Pokemon in some form or another, and most of the time it doesn't turn out the way it has been hyped.
 
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