Some people find it "cheap" due to it being unreliable and completely luck based. It's horrible because when it DOES work, it's not fair and you're a scrub for using it. When it doesn't work, lol at you and you're a scrub for using it.
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- Thread starter reachzero
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Some people find it "cheap" due to it being unreliable and completely luck based. It's horrible because when it DOES work, it's not fair and you're a scrub for using it. When it doesn't work, lol at you and you're a scrub for using it.
Parafusion is bad for the same reason OHKO moves and Double Team is bad, they reduce the game to coin flips.
for some reason I am loving Alakazam right now (note, i play on wifi)
absolutely have to scout for the dark types first actually (i have been drawing them out using espeon or haunter right now) but damn that f'er hits hard.
I run cm + 3 attacks btu i am finding cm worthless as i generally don't bring it oout until late game when everything si already weak enough to kill without it.
absolutely have to scout for the dark types first actually (i have been drawing them out using espeon or haunter right now) but damn that f'er hits hard.
I run cm + 3 attacks btu i am finding cm worthless as i generally don't bring it oout until late game when everything si already weak enough to kill without it.
This metagame has definitely took a huge U-turn -- teams in the top 10 leaderboard are extremely diversity unlike the previous rounds where the teams looked mad similar. With this much diversity, I believe that stall can be the most dominating style of play this round. However, I haven't seen one solid stall team yet from stalking games. Umbreon would be a nice addition back though to stall teams since its just difficult running a special wall without being trapped by Dugtrio and being beaten by Misdreavus. Often times, stall teams nowadays run Clefable/Chansey + Spiritomb/Drapion to check Misdreavus. Also, with the parafusion disucssion, ironically enough, they give stall plenty of troubles if they lack a cleric.
And for something completely different, has anyone found any useful Stealth Rock leads this format?
I've been having trouble finding these kind of leads, with the notable exception of Dugtrio, who is basically the Aerodactyl of UU. But I'm looking for a lead more like Swampert, Metagross or Heatran. Anyone got any ideas?
I've been having trouble finding these kind of leads, with the notable exception of Dugtrio, who is basically the Aerodactyl of UU. But I'm looking for a lead more like Swampert, Metagross or Heatran. Anyone got any ideas?
There's always Regirock, which is a great mixed wall and can survive pretty much anything to get rocks up while doing large amounts of damage to Taunters. Rhyperior is another good one, and it can also Phaze if you need it to. There's also my current lead, but I'm not willing to post it in the megathread. Most of the people who post here stalk me so they know what it is anyway.
Just wondering, is there a current list of most common lead-offs in UU right now? (If so, could you post a link?)
The problem with Parafusion isn't it's viablity. (I think making the opponent move only 37.5% of the time is pretty damn good)
It's just annoying as fuck. Nobody likes losing to a fucking Lanturn with SpD Venusaur when you keep slapping your self. Especially when they know they SHOULDN't win (Ice beam wasn't even used) but they stay in just to fuck with you.
1. Your opponent now knows that you run Dugtrio, and invaluable tool of a pokemon revealed this early?
2. It's frail. It'll die to anything.
It's just annoying as fuck. Nobody likes losing to a fucking Lanturn with SpD Venusaur when you keep slapping your self. Especially when they know they SHOULDN't win (Ice beam wasn't even used) but they stay in just to fuck with you.
Your kidding right? Dugtrio is an AWFUL lead. Sure it can get the rocks up but it has 2 major flaws.
1. Your opponent now knows that you run Dugtrio, and invaluable tool of a pokemon revealed this early?
2. It's frail. It'll die to anything.
Houndoom Lead FTW! Nobody ever seems to know that if they U-turn and I counter, it still hurts their next poke...
No particular order:
Hariyama: Can Fake Out and activate a Toxic/Flame Orb at the end of the turn, activiting guts and dealing out heavy damage with Close Combat. Is a pretty good lead counter to Omastar and has the bulk to survive later.
Ambipom: Can Fake Out / Taunt set up leads, sometimes carries Technician boosted Grass Knot for Omastar, and can smack things around with STAB Return. High Speed makes it an excellent revenge killer thanks to Fake Out. Because it can be used for revenge later, it often uses U-Turn. The most common set is likely "Fake Out/U-Turn/Taunt/Return or Pursuit or Grass Knot.
Mesprit: Can set up Stealth Rock and U-Turn out, and has the bulk to take a few hits, serving as a Torterra counter later. Can run Choice Scarf or Choice Band sets with Trick/U-Turn/Zen Headbutt/Stealth Rock, which can completely ruin other leads. With a Choice Scarf, it is fast enough to outpace most leads, but still slow enough to be able to U-Turn away from Uxie if it carries a Choice Scarf itself.
Uxie: Has the general bulk, as well as a wide array of support moves. Stealth Rock/U-Turn/Memento/Yawn/Toxic/Thunder Wave/Reflect/Light Screen can all be used on sets, making Uxie extremely difficult to stop. Has a decent variety of attacks such as Thunderbolt and Psychic, and can run Choice Specs/Band/Scarf. The Scarf set is primarily focused on Trick early.
Venusaur: Mainly used for Scarf Sleep Powder, but can be used to play "mindgames" as well, including Leaf Storming turn 1. Is an excellent stopper to Cloyster, Omastar, and Kabutops, preventing Spikes or Stealth Rock. Can carry Hidden Power Rock or Psychic for Moltres or Toxicroak, and with a Choice Scarf, can outspeed them both.
Moltres: Mainly the Life Orb variety are used, purely on how strong it is. Hidden Power Grass OHKOs Omastar and Kabutops, and Fire Blast can O-2HKO most other leads. Air Slash hits Hariyama fairly hard, maybe enough for a OHKO. The reason for using this as a lead early is to beat stall teams easily; They will likely bring in Chansey, giving you an easy chance to bring in Dugtrio, who will OHKO with Beat Up. Another positive is that it won't have to take SR damage (50% off its health) if it wants to play.
Omastar: Classic Spikes Lead, can beat Ambipom easily if it doesn't have Hidden Power Grass, although Amb can Taunt back preventing Spikes. The selling point is obviously Spikes, which can be invaluable to Stall or Offensive teams. Also beats Lead Arcanine.
Spiritomb: Mainly Choice Banded, as it can Pursuit Ambipom, who will likely Taunt, for a 3 or 2HKO, depending on your spread. This leaves Ambipom useless. Uxie and Mesprit can do almost nothing, and Shadow Sneak can revenge kill lategame. The main selling point here is Trick, rendering many Pokemon - such as Cloyster or Omastar - useless. Will not prevent a full layer of Spikes.
Alakazam: Can OHKO Omastar, Cloyster, Kabutops, Nidoqueen, Hariyama and almost any other lead (with a few exceptions such as Spiritomb) with a moveset of Psychic/Grass Knot/Counter/Focus Blast. Alakazam's "Inner Focus" prevents Fake Out from flinching, allowing it to defeat Ambipom fairly easily, usually using Counter on turn 1. Uxie and Mesprit that use U-Turn, expecting Taunt, will find the next switch-in being blasted by Counter, usually weakening it enough to be killed with Zam's next move.
Cloyster: Can Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Rapid Spin, and Explode. Usually not all 4 moves will be found on the same set though. With a higher speed than Omastar, as well as higher Defense, it can withstand a bit more of a beating. However, it's Ice typing gives it horrible weaknesses to Rock and Fighting. Low Special Defense makes it a risky lead to try and get 3 Spikes with.
Kabutops: Swift Swim allows it to combat Rain Dance teams almost right away, and can spin away Stealth Rock fairly safely, as Stone Edge will severely dent any Ghost-types. Aqua Jet can be used for revenge killing purposes and Kabutops usually has Stealth Rock itself so it can do something.
Rhyperior: A good ability and good stats, as well as STAB Earthquake, allow it to combat many leads such as Omastar and Ambipom. Can Stealth Rock as a lead and not be useless. Stone Edge also receives STAB.
Arcanine: Not as common now but still sometimes used, with Fire Blast/Toxic/Hidden Power Grass/ExtremeSpeed. Intimidate weakens many of the Fake Out users too much to do any real damage and the Fire-type can lure Omastar into a false sense of security as HP Grass OHKOs. Toxic is used to weaken the really bulky Waters, as well as Uxie or Mesprit, as the rest of the team usually thrives with these 2 gone. ExtremeSpeed is used mainly for Focus Sash purposes. Morning Sun can be used over Toxic for survivability. Like Moltres, won't have to fear Stealth Rock right away.
Nidoqueen: Still being used, but not very useful. Can Taunt/Toxic Spikes to threaten Stall teams, and has a high enough Defense/Poison Point to threaten Ambipom. Earth Power does enough to Omastar to stop it quickly. Is not able to even scratch Uxie or Mesprit really.
Hippopotas: Not very common, sets up Sandstorm and Stealth Rock.
Houndoom: Not very common, but is very powerful. With a Scarf set, it can Dark Pulse/Fire Blast/Hidden Power Rock most of the other leads right away and KO them. Protect/Sucker Punch/Fire Blast/Dark Pulse can scout Fake Out and hit very hard back. Can also use Taunt and Counter, similar to Alakazam.
Snover: Not very common, sets up Hail.
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Many more, I'll work on those later.
Technician doesn't boost Hidden power grass. HP Grass will not OHKO without significant SpA investments. (dealing: 55.8% - 66.3%)
Your better off taunting Omastar (taking 50-60% from surf) and switching out. Other than that the moveset looks good and I'm glad you didn't mention Low Kick. (Just a terrible move on Ambipom)
*Magmortar* serves as an excellent lead. It's power should not be underestimated because it can literally hurt anything on the switch in. The fact that it beats so many common leads (same as Moltres) yet has 0 safe switch in's is astounding.
Edit: Oh my mistake then. The OHKO is not present without at least:
180 SpA ev's and a Hasty Nature to deal (84.9% - 101.2%) Not even worth it.
Grass Knot only has 60 base (90 with Technician) and is in the same boat as HP Grass. Just don't even bother. And this is my main beef with Ambipom as a lead nowadays, sure it stops SR but does it really stop the opposing *leads?* Even then Alakazam has access to a faster taunt.
Lead Hitmontop seems okay. It has a good matchup against Ambipom, Omastar, Cloyster, and Kabutops, but losing to Mespirit and Uxie is killer unfortunately. Otherwise I might be using it.
well it also breaks sashes which can be useful and somethign alakazam cant due (break sash and stop rocks)
it is a great lead for "certain" teams... i have no idea why it is the #1 lead though. not a fan of giving those rock (rhyperior) or steel (aggron) or ghosts (missy) a free switch into fake out.
As for the whole parafusion "cheapness" topic, I don't find it cheap at all. It is still a tactic worth looking into since it does shut down a ton of stuff, forcing switches and allowing other pokemon to set up. Regigigas' best set includes parafusion and with its fantastic bulk for UU it can take a couple of hits as it cripples the opponent's team. I'm not saying it is the greatest tactic ever or anything, but it really shouldn't be disregarded.
Take OU for example, people generally don't think using Machamp to be "cheap", and with paralysis support isn't that the same thing? Or even stuff like Iron Head Jirachi can be extremely annoying as well. Often people will rely on the flinch factor as a last resort so I don't see why parafusion can't be relied on in that sense as well. Should those be frowned upon because they are in the same level of "cheapness" as parafusion? Luck is part of the game, and so is abusing it at times.
Take OU for example, people generally don't think using Machamp to be "cheap", and with paralysis support isn't that the same thing? Or even stuff like Iron Head Jirachi can be extremely annoying as well. Often people will rely on the flinch factor as a last resort so I don't see why parafusion can't be relied on in that sense as well. Should those be frowned upon because they are in the same level of "cheapness" as parafusion? Luck is part of the game, and so is abusing it at times.
When taking into consideration the characteristics of a desirable metagame, ParaFusion completely wrecks the importance of skill and, in turn, removes the 'fun' aspect, at least for me.
Pokemon like Jirachi and Machamp are on a different spectrum than Parafusion. They have a 60% chance of Flinching or 100% chance of confusing, respectively. These moves can and should be accounted for when deciding on how to deal with them. On the other hand, ParaFusion is simply a lucked based game of bullshit.
Pokemon like Jirachi and Machamp are on a different spectrum than Parafusion. They have a 60% chance of Flinching or 100% chance of confusing, respectively. These moves can and should be accounted for when deciding on how to deal with them. On the other hand, ParaFusion is simply a lucked based game of bullshit.
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