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np: UU - Can't Touch This

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Bluewind said:
RestTalk couldn't care less about toxic. The same applies to any Sub set.
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Then i use my SubCMRoar Entei. It's a question of what team you have. Mine benefits more from Articuno than Altaria. Or not, seeing that i made the team to be all NU.

And how many RestTalk Cresselias are there? With CM and Psychic, it''s set up fodder to any dark poke. With CM and any other attack, it's somewhat weak. With no CM and two attacks, it's even weaker. So... Reflect+Psychic?
 
I personally think RestTalk Cresselia is the least viable set it can run. That is when Pokemon like SD Drapion, Absol, and possibly even Shiftry get dangerous; the last thing you want to do is give them a free turn.
 
Havent played UU recently, done a good bit of spectating tho. But for many people saying Chansey has a shot at beating Porygon-Z i'm surprised there has been no mention of Mixed Download sets, or even Choice Band. A Choice Banded Return I remember calcing if using Download for the +1 boost will hit harder than a Choice Band Outrage from the Dragons... A neutral natured +1 Porygonz CB Return does 91% min to Chansey. Positive nature does 100% min. Have a nice day.
 
Heysup said:
I personally think RestTalk Cresselia is the least viable set it can run. That is when Pokemon like SD Drapion, Absol, and possibly even Shiftry get dangerous; the last thing you want to do is give them a free turn.
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I do know it's an arguably inferior set, but it's existant, and viable with support, even if it happends to be extreme. Also being swept by someone that's crazy enough to run that because you rely on a poké to beat it and incidentally it can't just sucks.
 
Bluewind said:
I do know it's an arguably inferior set, but it's existant, and viable with support, even if it happends to be extreme. Also being swept by someone that's crazy enough to run that because you rely on a poké to beat it and incidentally it can't just sucks.
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Hmm... that really sucks.
But my example(Toxic Articuno)was placed on a team who can reliably take Cressy out without many problems. If someone relies on Toxic Articuno(or anything like that) to beat Cresselia, knowing that Cressy is everywhere...
 
i am not seriously playing again until we do something about cresselia, i think we can all agree that this is the worst any metagame it has been since the garchomp suspect test. #stark reckons cm moonlight is the best set, but i hate all of cresselia's sets (except for restalk)

M BLADE said:
Hmm... that really sucks.
But my example(Toxic Articuno)was placed on a team who can reliably take Cressy out without many problems. If someone relies on Toxic Articuno(or anything like that) to beat Cresselia, knowing that Cressy is everywhere...
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your toxic articuno may beat cresselia but if i have to use a crappy pokemon to beat cresselia then there's something wrong. drapion and skuntank aren't even surefire counters, since you NEED a boost to take it out
 
Thorns said:
your toxic articuno may beat cresselia but if i have to use a crappy pokemon to beat cresselia then there's something wrong. drapion and skuntank aren't even surefire counters, since you NEED a boost to take it out
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Articuno is crappy? You didn't used the Subroost set yet.
If you saw the team i posted, you can see that Skuntank is used to counter ghosts, not Cresselia(who is 2HKOed by the LO Adamant one... yes it is).

Again, for the last time: you want a surefire counter to Cresselia? Use Umbreon. Said that various times, that's the last one.
 
Yeah, like I said before Encore is the best move in the game.
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I disagree wholeheartedly, Trick/ Switheroo is by far the most useful move. It is less situational and royally screws over a good majority of its targets and/or its switch-ins. What good is Cress if it can't CM? Recover, etc... Even sweepers won't enjoy a Choice Item. Even if it gives them a temporary boost, they are still substantially easier to play around.

One team that I enjoyed using lately was a 2 Trick wonder (obvious play on words). It consisted of Switcheroo Band Persian and Trick Scarf MisMag. Switcheroo with Persian... Switch to Mismag and Trick something else. Followed by a few setup sweepers with access to Sucker Punch and sheer raw power... was just good.

Long story short... Trick is the best move in the game as it "prevents" all setup moves and is like a permenant Encore. This of course is assuming that you are tricking a choice item.


Edit:

Also, a hell of a lot more pokemon learn Trick/Switcheroo than Encore.
 
yeah, but trick can be seen coming, and also limits your pokemon until they trick. Encore can be used as a filler (on, say, a poliwrath), whereas the whole set has to revolve around trick to be effective
 
If you see Jumpluff, Clefable, Lopunny, or Poliwrath you should expect Encore. Sure Trick 'limits' the users moveset but by how much? Mismag can run Trick-SB-TB-NP with little to no issues, Clefable can run Trick-Softboiled-W/E-W/E, or (Bulky) Froslass can run Trick-Spikes-W/E-W/E.

Even if you see it coming... you still have to essentially give-up a Pokemon to stop it. I don't want to dive to far into the what-ifs. Scouting, Leads, Pokemon seen, and previous moves are all accountable... assuming perfect plays... the Trick Pokemon should come out on top.
 
meh, I haven't had problems with trickers (outside of trickspecs Z and Zam), cause i just switch a choiced poke in when they show up.

sure, you can switch out of encore, but the other guy isn't stuck on encore if he messes up
 
I found a way to COUNTER cress!
Mismagius@leftovers
nature timid
EVs108 HP / 180SpA / 220 spe
-shadow ball
hp fighting
calm mind
pain split
This mon can swich in on standerd cm cress sub and calm mind and beat it.
the calc everyone wants
+6 mismagius shadow ball vs +6 cress 37.8% - 45%
then assuming a special def drop
+6 missy vs +5 cress
43.7% - 51.8%
so we have here a 6.25% chance of killing cress constantly. cress meanwhile does damage back to us
26% - 30.6%
enough for a 4-5ko but we have pain split so if we predict right we could re heal back to full or nearly full by wasting a turn calm minding and then pain splitting.
EDIT I stupidly pressed the button before finishing my post... here we go for the finishing parts


pain split calm mind mismagius has many obvious drawbacks. like being revenge killed by absol or any other priority move. not named mach punch or bullet punch. HOWEVER it is a reliable way to check cresselia IF you can predict right and your oppnonent doesnt see the obvious pain split coming. for some random reason.
 
... just after posting this I realized that pain split should be slashed with taunt.

w/e countering cress is a acomplisment in my book perhaps more HP with sub could be run to beat cresselia. since one would need 356 hp to never have a sub broken by cress it may not be viable
 
you missed somethings on that

first, if you switch in, cress is going to start with 1 more boost than you have. you'll take a free hit while you're catching up in cm's, those hits do 37.5% - 44.1% by the way, not 26-30

second, cress has moonlight, so it can heal why you just pain split

third, psychic has just as much of a chance to drop SpD as shadow ball does

basically it's a mirror fight, but you take one free hit and don't have as good of a healing move (in return you have more speed).

anything with taunt, encore or trick can force cressy out, i don't think magius does it as well as some others though (like spiritomb, who's immune to everything cm/moonlight cressy has except weird hidden powers)

anyway, with all the ghost/status/special walls flying around I'm having a field day with SD Ursaring. bulky enough to take a few hits, especially with everything running dual screen, and dishes out a lot of pain with a STAB (body slam for para is fun), Crunch and EQ
 
Honestly, I find that I've been winning more with my good old Shaymin-era team than with any of my other teams. The threat of Cresselia seems to be waning fairly quickly for me, now that I have a better idea of how to deal with the various sets. The fact that I can sometimes fearlessly switch in Nidoking is telling... Porygon-Z's threat has been more consistently present, but it's also been fairly easy to beat for the most part. I did meet a few bulky Porygon-Z and those variants are absolute monsters.

There should also be more love for Moltres because that thing can melt opponents like crazy. Life Orb has terrible power and Scarf is just an awesome lead and revenge killer.
 
God Bless Atheism said:
If you see Jumpluff, Clefable, Lopunny, or Poliwrath you should expect Encore. Sure Trick 'limits' the users moveset but by how much? Mismag can run Trick-SB-TB-NP with little to no issues, Clefable can run Trick-Softboiled-W/E-W/E, or (Bulky) Froslass can run Trick-Spikes-W/E-W/E.

Even if you see it coming... you still have to essentially give-up a Pokemon to stop it. I don't want to dive to far into the what-ifs. Scouting, Leads, Pokemon seen, and previous moves are all accountable... assuming perfect plays... the Trick Pokemon should come out on top.
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Both moves are completely different and work differently. Imo Trick is most useful on switch-ins or if you're weak to a certain poke and you have to stop it or else it'll end up sweeping you.

I prefer Encore because it's consistent and reliable. And Encore is useful against all kind of teams while in my experience Trick is very difficult to use against offensive teams because most pokemon can abuse the rise in power/speed.
 
lol your fav poke lopunny abuses these two things....Lopunny is one of the best supporting pokemon out there to the point if you predict wrong assuming trick or encore it can always just sub pass...
 
IMO both trick and encore have in dividual merits. However, I prefer encore as trick is extremely situational, and can backfire pretty bad if the opponent predicts correctly. The worst that can happen with encore is you give up a free switch.
 
Thund91 said:
Which you can Encore :P
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I was going to say that as soon as I saw his post.

Encore is a free switch in, but only for pokes that don't need setup, as everyone who does needs setup runs the risk of being trapped as well. this is especially true for bulkier encore users like poliwrath, since they won't be OHKO'd by most unboosted setup sweepers
 
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