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np: UU - Can't Touch This
- Thread starter reachzero
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I'd suppose because Smurf has done it as well
That's right, with a 32 Atk / 252 SpA / 224 Spe Rash spread. With this set almost any (bulky) Water barring Lanturn (and some Ludicolo) can be 1-2HKO'd with SR or Spikes without the need to boost. Ice Beam 2HKOs Quagsire, whilst Thunderbolt can OHKO Omastar and Kabutops, and 2HKO all the others. Ice Beam also OHKOs 252 / 0 Venusaur, in addition to the other Grass types like Leafeon and Tangrowth. Even Toxicroaks can be OHKO'd if slightly weakened (~80% or less). Really cool set.
Yes you can nominate damp rock.
There is a plus to public nom paragraphs. Namely, you get a very good idea of what the arguments are for saying that a certain Pokémon is BL material. This can help a lot when trying to translate your own experiences into arguments against the opposing view.
While I doubt that thread was sactioned, it does pose a good question:
Can we vote for retiering BLs? Instead of having them all randomly dropped in on us like last time.
On top of that, if we're voting for an item (Damp Rock) why not be able to vote for a move?
For example, Honchkrow was voted BL almost exclusively due to his Brave Bird being extremely powerful. Before he got that move he wasn't even a suspect. For me, banning Damp Rock would open a pandora's box as to what we can vote for and what we can't. Before it was a clear line of whole pokes, for better or for worse, now we can ban one specific kind of team, why not one specific move?
Can we vote for retiering BLs? Instead of having them all randomly dropped in on us like last time.
On top of that, if we're voting for an item (Damp Rock) why not be able to vote for a move?
For example, Honchkrow was voted BL almost exclusively due to his Brave Bird being extremely powerful. Before he got that move he wasn't even a suspect. For me, banning Damp Rock would open a pandora's box as to what we can vote for and what we can't. Before it was a clear line of whole pokes, for better or for worse, now we can ban one specific kind of team, why not one specific move?
I would like to actively discourage anyone who claims a certain Pokemon isn't broken based on the fact that they "haven't had any trouble with it" without considering their own skill level, the skill level of their opponents, and their own experience using the Suspect. Though I have my reservations on more than just Porygon-Z and Cresselia, those were the only two I've used extensively all throughout the testing phaze, so I can only effectively evaluate those two.
I've never considered Froslass broken by any means, mostly because my main team is a straightforward hard-hitting offense that racks up KOs before the residual damage shifts the match in my opponent's favor, but I can't speak for everyone else and I know that other teams will have problems with her.
Basically, all I'm saying is that people should know what they're talking about before they make heavy-handed claims. This is an entire metagame we're talking about, after all.
I've never considered Froslass broken by any means, mostly because my main team is a straightforward hard-hitting offense that racks up KOs before the residual damage shifts the match in my opponent's favor, but I can't speak for everyone else and I know that other teams will have problems with her.
Basically, all I'm saying is that people should know what they're talking about before they make heavy-handed claims. This is an entire metagame we're talking about, after all.
It could possibly get back up to popularity, but one thing it isn't as capable of is being such an awesome mixed sweeper. I'm sad Honchkrow got voted out, but it really deserves to be. That thing rapes even certain OU teams if used in the right moment. Plus that Insomnia ability is just plain awesome. Using it as a lead, being able to destroy spore users? Please and thank you!
I used to use Froslass as well, but it gets annoying to use. The whole point of UU/NU is to be able to have more versitality and more strategy than the OU metagame, and Froslass requires little to no strategy to use. After you dominate everything every time, wouldn't you get tired of winning? Most people would say no, but you would get bored because you would have nothing to work on, and nothing to try to overcome. What would be the point of playing Pokemon without challenges to overcome? That's what the whole game is based on. By winning all of the time and never losing, you would just end up sitting on a snowy mountain like RED in G/S/C and never come down until you lose and you have something to work for. Don't get me wrong, winning is definitely a great thing, but not having anything to beat is just plain boring.
The point of UU is to have an environment where Pokemon that aren't as strong as others have some chance to shine. There will be good Pokemon no matter what tier you're in.
You do have a challenge: your opponent. You have another human sitting at the other end of the computer playing against you trying to win also. That's the challenge. If you can gain an advantage, then you use it, unless you intentionally want to lose, in which case why play? It's one thing to be outplayed but there is absolutely no point in intentionally gimping your chances on "principle". If a strategy is being abused to the point of "brokenness", then let players ban it. Until then, abuse it as much as you can.
Yeah except that unlike the Pokemon canon there are always new players and with the general unpredictability of the metagame nothing is certain. That's what you have to work for: keeping your place upon the top, since there is always another challenger.
Is there any way to know if we can vote after the nomination's?
If it comes down to Sexp I might be screwed because I refused to ladder with Cress (even though I have more then enough experience after the amount of times I've faced it)
If it comes down to Sexp I might be screwed because I refused to ladder with Cress (even though I have more then enough experience after the amount of times I've faced it)
After nominations, they'll put up a list of eligible voters. Then it's essay time.
There are two reasons that immediately pop into my head without giving it much thought.
Firstly, Brave Bird does not completely "UUify" Honchkrow. It still has Sleep immunity, STAB Sucker Punch, and a STAB Drill Peck to boot.
Second, banning Brave Bird is simply illogical when it clearly isn't the problem. You know a move is a problem when every Pokemon with that move is broken. For example, in Little Cup Dragon Rage is banned because it OHKOes every single Pokemon in Little Cup and has no resists or immunities etc. This would make every Pokemon with Dragon Rage broken. Brave Bird simply doesn't apply because you have Pokemon like Swellow who aren't broken and use Brave Bird.
1) I was talking about Brave Bird specifically on Honchkrow.
2) Then why was he voted UU once and not even a suspect in several other tests?
3) My point is not so much that we SHOULD do it as that banning Damp Rock and the fact that 1 move makes the difference between BL and UU shines the light on how we're taking an already ridiculous (look at it from an objective perspective) tiering system and making it even more ridiculous.
Um, just throwing this out there, Honchkrow's vote was very controversial. Brave Bird just made it unquestionably broken. Anyway, I don't get your point. Latios probably wouldn't be Uber if you just ban Draco Meteor, but we choose to ban the Pokemon over specifically banning the move and letting the Pokemon hang around. Same with Swords Dance on Garchomp and Tail Glow on Manaphy. We don't do this because it's a lot easier to just ban the Pokemon than it is to cherry-pick which moves make them broken and then ban those moves specifically for those Pokemon. Read the Policy Review post on the "Ideal Metagame", particularly the part about not having needlessly complicated clauses.
You see, if we were to go this route, then just about any Pokemon can be molded to be acceptable in their respective tier (lets ban Encore on Wobbuffet only, lets ban Swords Dance on Garchomp only etc). But that would just be silly; we don't just arbitrarily ban certain moves on certain Pokemon to get them to fit fairly into the metagame. This is completely different to the Damp Rock issue (or Soul Dew in OU). They are items that are only used for a specific concept / Pokemon, but arguably happen to break that concept / Pokemon in the process. It is a more sensible option because the absence of Damp Rock does not make Rain unusable (similar to how a lack of Soul Dew does not make Latias unusable), just nerfed enough to no longer be broken. No other viable Pokemon or concepts are affected either way.
No, it was only a suspect before that time. It was removed from the metagame for a while because we used to have a suspectless metagame as part of the Suspect Test process.FlareBlitz said:
well I meant any way to find out now. but looks like I'll just have to wait
Not at the moment. Usages determine tiering (unless said pokemon is banned from a tier)
I could name like 5-6 perfectly usable OU pokes in UU. But as long as they are getting used, they aren't dropping.
EX: I could see: Dusknoire, Weavile, Flygon, Smeargle and Tentacruel being fine in UU.
I could name like 5-6 perfectly usable OU pokes in UU. But as long as they are getting used, they aren't dropping.
EX: I could see: Dusknoire, Weavile, Flygon, Smeargle and Tentacruel being fine in UU.
Sorry what weavile has access to SD along with a massive speed stat priority stab ice and dark?
Flygon is used a huge amount in OU and with scarf U-turn and only registeel being able to "wall" it even thou it can use STAB EQ or fireblast to put a large dent in it.
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