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np: UU - Higher Ground

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In terms of completely underrated threats, I'm going to throw this one out there:

Lapras (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 248 HP/8 Atk/252 SDef
Sassy nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Curse
- Waterfall
- Toxic
- Rest
---

Absolutely monstrous. Lapras' 130/85/95 defenses are amazing, and its typing isn't nearly as bad as it seems considering how good Water is defensively. The real magic, however, lies in Lapras' ability: Shell Armor. The fact that Lapras can curse up to essentially impenetrable status, and opponents can't break through it with a lucky critical hit. Toxic is the real magic, though, as it leaves this Lapras walled only by Toxicroak, and prevents anything but ResTalk Milotic from walling it.
 
Leman said:
Actually I've been using NPCroak with NP/Vacuum Wave/Focus Blast/Dark Pulse, it it works really well. It can easily switch into things like Chansey and Milotic, who expect a physical variant and sweep with its near perfect coverage. Its won me a couple matches.
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Why would Chansey switch into a Physical Set? <_<
 
ZandgaiaX said:
Why would Chansey switch into a Physical Set? <_<
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It wouldn't. Maybe I didn't say it clearly enough. I meant, that Toxicroak could switch into Chansey, who would switch out, expecting me to be a Physical variant instead of Thunder Waving or something, while I get a Nasty Plot, and Sweep. From there people don't have much who can take +2 Focus Blast.
 
Which surprises me. I mean, Weezing can stop so many threats. Hitmonlee, Hitmontop, Azumarill, Feraligator, Leafeon, SD Sceptile, Absol, Drapion, Donphan, Honchkrow, Scyther, Torterra, and the list can go on and on. I guess Houndoom screws it over really bad, but is Houndoom the only reason it's not being used a lot?
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I just started playing UU today and I've found Weezing to be a fantastic addition to my team. He teams up with Chansey quite well to make a solid defensive core. Houndoom is not actually that much of a problem as Sludge Bomb hits him quite hard and that's the move I'm generally spamming (Poison is actually quite useful coverage in UU and the 30% Poison chance is handy). The real problem, imo, is Mismagius as most Weezings will be unable to break Missy's Sub, even before a Calm Mind.

I'm using Sludge Bomb/Flamethrower/Will-o-Wisp/Pain Split but I'm considering dropping Pain Split because it's a shit move and Chansey's Wish support is normally enough. Thunderbolt is a potential replacement move as it has a chance to OHKO Honchrkow after SR (well, mine does because I'm running 80 SpA) and would help against the likes of Feraligatr and Azumarill. I'm staying way from Explosion because he's far too important to my team to go throwing away so recklessly but it might be an option on more offensive teams especially if you need a Milotic lure (it loves to switch in on Weezing's weakish Special Attacks and sometimes WoW). But if I had to choose one move to replace Pain Split, it would be Payback. The earlier mentioned Mismagius concerns combined with Weezing's low speed and natural tendency to lure out Psychic types makes Payback a very attractive option.

0 Atk Weezing using Payback vs 4/0 Mismagius -79.39% - 93.89%.

That's a 41% chance to OHKO after SR (I'm aware standard Missy runs a few HP EVs but I assume most people just go 4/252/252). Espeon takes Payback in a similar fashion.

So...

Weezing @ Leftovers
Bold/Relaxed
252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpA
- Sludge Bomb
- Flamethrower
- Will-o-Wisp
- Pain Split / Payback

Give it a go, it could very well be the best physical wall in UU.
 
Seven Deadly Sins said:
In terms of completely underrated threats, I'm going to throw this one out there:

Lapras (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 248 HP/8 Atk/252 SDef
Sassy nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Curse
- Waterfall
- Toxic
- Rest
---

Absolutely monstrous. Lapras' 130/85/95 defenses are amazing, and its typing isn't nearly as bad as it seems considering how good Water is defensively. The real magic, however, lies in Lapras' ability: Shell Armor. The fact that Lapras can curse up to essentially impenetrable status, and opponents can't break through it with a lucky critical hit. Toxic is the real magic, though, as it leaves this Lapras walled only by Toxicroak, and prevents anything but ResTalk Milotic from walling it.
Click to expand...

You know, if Lapras was pure Water, it would probably be an UU staple, perhaps even OU. I mean it's bulkier than Vaporeon, with access to Thunderbolt and some unique support options for a bulky Water.

Anyway the big flaw I see in that set is that, without Ice Shard, you are setup bait for Spikes Roserade, whilst Altaria is free to Perish Song you at leisure. I understand that Toxic is there to beat Haze Milo, but if you ask me I'd rather use something else to deal with it if possible. After all, there are quite a few things that can gain offensive momentum on a Haze Milotic, or just poison it themselves. I dunno, it just seems to me that Toxic > Ice Shard is more trouble than it's worth.

And that's just stall. Offensive teams will probably always have a way to beat or set up on you, even if they aren't carrying a Toxicroak or Roserade / Venusaur.
 
Leman said:
Actually I've been using NPCroak with NP/Vacuum Wave/Focus Blast/Dark Pulse, it it works really well. It can easily switch into things like Chansey and Milotic, who expect a physical variant and sweep with its near perfect coverage. Its won me a couple matches.
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I've used NP Croak since before it got "popular" and I can tell you no one expects a physical set anymore. Always the straight switch to Chansey whenever he comes out. I also always run Sludge Bomb over Focus Blast/HP Fighting. Running max speed Timid is nearly required for some threats (glares at stall Moltres, Milotic, Blaziken, Support Roserade, Magmortar, and Mespirit) and dropping a Speed IV (and I think SpA but don't quote me on that) is terrible. Sludge Bomb enjoys relatively good coverage in UU and has the added benefit of having 10 more Base Power than HP Fighting, 30% better accuracy than Focus Blast, and a 30% Poison chance that screws over people that manage to kill it.

/me goes back to tinkering with off-kilter specs.
 
Would a mixed Nasty Plotting Toxicroak be viable? Maybe Naughty natured with Nasty Plot, Shadow Ball, Vacuum Wave/Sludge Bomb and Cross Chop to dispose of their special wall of chioce.

I think I'm going to run some calcs and try it out.
 
I've actually have been thinking the same thing. Only thing is that Cross Chop will fail to OHKO Registeel, Steelix, and Regirock all of whom with KO or TW or what have you.
 
I don't like the sound of that idea personally. Relying on consecutive hits with an unboosted Cross Chop is worse than relying on Focus Blast. Come back to me when Toxicroak gets Close Combat and it may be worthy of consideration.
 
I haven't been playing much UU, but in the few matches I have played I've found Cloyster to be really useful. It sets up Spikes rather easily on Donphan, Dugtrio, and defensive Milotic (though the first two are scared off anyways), and can 2HKO Donphan with Surf to prevent it from spinning. Best of all, its Ice Shard can nearly OHKO offensive Roserade and Dugtrio, and take out a 50% Yanmega (I'm using a variation of the offensive Cloyster set heysup posted a while ago).
 
Lemmiwinks MkII said:
You know, if Lapras was pure Water, it would probably be an UU staple, perhaps even OU. I mean it's bulkier than Vaporeon, with access to Thunderbolt and some unique support options for a bulky Water.

Anyway the big flaw I see in that set is that, without Ice Shard, you are setup bait for Spikes Roserade, whilst Altaria is free to Perish Song you at leisure. I understand that Toxic is there to beat Haze Milo, but if you ask me I'd rather use something else to deal with it if possible. After all, there are quite a few things that can gain offensive momentum on a Haze Milotic, or just poison it themselves. I dunno, it just seems to me that Toxic > Ice Shard is more trouble than it's worth.

And that's just stall. Offensive teams will probably always have a way to beat or set up on you, even if they aren't carrying a Toxicroak or Roserade / Venusaur.
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That's why you have an entire team backing you. Roserade gives you a free switch to something scary like Yanmega if it goes with its Grass STAB. Also, if opposing Roserade *really* wants to spike, you can let it spike... and then kill it with Trio. Also, Spikes are pretty ephemeral in this metagame anyway given how well Donphan spins.
 
Boingo said:
Would a mixed Nasty Plotting Toxicroak be viable? Maybe Naughty natured with Nasty Plot, Shadow Ball, Vacuum Wave/Sludge Bomb and Cross Chop to dispose of their special wall of chioce.

I think I'm going to run some calcs and try it out.
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I actually played around with one awhile back and it was quite good; Cross Chop OHKOs Chansey and allows your unresisted Fighting/Ghost special combo to sweep.
 
I'm liking how the lead metagame has become even MORE diverse, with the alot less Moltres and Roserade leads then I remember (although Ambipom is now the most common easily), and more creative leads like Absol, Donphan ect.
 
Leads aren't more diverse IMO. The only real creative lead I've seen is the new Pursuit + Taunt Houndoom lead, which is only really there to prevent the setup of Spikes / SR by slower, bulkier leads like Roserade and Registeel. In all of my UU matches, I've seen the same leads over and over, which include Ambipom (probably the most common), Roserade (usually the Life Orb variant, the Spiker is slowly losing usage IMO, or being saved for late-game), and the aforementioned Houndoom. Not so diverse IMO.
 
even though Ambipom is the highest used, it's useage is also going down. And yeah, one month ago. I only saw as lead either: Ambipom/Moltres/Roserade. And that's it, I like the new leadage! Although my poor donphan doens't usually stand a change :(
 
Boingo said:
Would a mixed Nasty Plotting Toxicroak be viable? Maybe Naughty natured with Nasty Plot, Shadow Ball, Vacuum Wave/Sludge Bomb and Cross Chop to dispose of their special wall of chioce.

I think I'm going to run some calcs and try it out.
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It's not worth it. Focus Blast has 10% less accuracy and is far more powerful to a special based set. Also, it only gets rid of Chansey which a +2 Focus Blast or a +4 HP Fighting will 2HKO anyway, and with all Chanseys running Toxic nowadays, they may get an Aromatherapy or Stoss off, but you're still getting boosts on them.
 
relicanth should be used more! it's got 100/130 defenses on the physical side which is useful for stopping ambipom, swellow, and kangaskhan while its useful resistances to fire and ice let it come in on some special attackers too. it almost always gets SR down for me early game and with rock polish it can clean up late game with head smash (god that move is powerful) and waterfall when everything is weakened.
 
Its always going to be good, but sometimes you'll find that the Speed is such a huge let down, it forces too many switch-outs. Tried Relicanth so many times at the start of Crobat and Shaymins removal. The Speed is a let down..
 
Seven Deadly Sins said:
That's why you have an entire team backing you. Roserade gives you a free switch to something scary like Yanmega if it goes with its Grass STAB. Also, if opposing Roserade *really* wants to spike, you can let it spike... and then kill it with Trio. Also, Spikes are pretty ephemeral in this metagame anyway given how well Donphan spins.
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What you said about Yanmega actually brings up an interesting calculation:

Timid Specs Yanmega (496 SpA) Air Slash vs. 252 / 136 Calm Roserade:

262-309 HP (80.86 - 95.37%)

286 SpA Roserade Sludge Bomb vs. 4 / 0 Yanmega:

188-222 HP (59.87 - 70.7%)

Air Slash never KOs the standard Spikes Roserade whilst Sludge Bomb always does more than 50% back, so Yanmega isn't always that free a switch even if you do get in on the right move.

Also, is everyone really having problems with Donphan consistently spinning away entry hazards easily. Because I don't. It is 1-2HKO'd by almost any strong special attack, and even has problems with strong physical Water / Grass attacks (especially when boosted by Swords Dance) and powerful Explosions. It is also dirt slow, meaning it almost never gets to spin first before you blast it. If your idea of preventing spin is to keep switching to your Ghost type, then you're doing it wrong.
 
In other news, Dual Screen Mr. Mime is a beast. I've been using him as a lead, and while the rest of the team sucks, he always gets screens up and beats Yanmega 1 on 1 easily.
 
Yeah I don't understand the overhype of Donphan as a spinner, I use a single spinblocker and have not had any trouble with it at all.

But on to the reason I came to this topic. What is up with all of these Toxic Registeel? I mean I think it's pretty stupid because all it is doing is hitting spinners, most of which don't really care and you STILL lose to sub charge beam rotom. I'd much rather just use Shadow Claw or something.
 
august said:
But on to the reason I came to this topic. What is up with all of these Toxic Registeel? I mean I think it's pretty stupid because all it is doing is hitting spinners, most of which don't really care and you STILL lose to sub charge beam rotom. I'd much rather just use Shadow Claw or something.
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Yeah I don't get Toxic on Registeel either. It doesn't really do much to anything that can't be handled by an extra coverage attack.

I've had most success recently with a semi-offensive Regi. Max Attack, a tiny bit of speed, rest in HP with SR and three attacks (Hammer Arm, Ice Punch and Explosion), holding a Chople Berry. Almost never fails to set up SR and get at least one kill in a match, and it still has enough defense to wall a lot of things. Rotom can't set up on it, and neither can Magneton. Various physical threats such as Absol, Honchkrow, Kangaskhan, Torterra etc take a huge (and often fatal hit) from Ice Punch / Hammer Arm, whilst Chople Berry ensures survival in most situations. Best of all though, Explosion deals about 75% to bulky Donphans, whilst often outrunning. This leaves it in easy KO range for anything else, meaning no spin opportunity.

I love semi-offensive Registeel.
 
I understand Moltres is by no means a new threat, but I haven't seen many, if any lately, using Specs. It plays very similar to Specs Yanmega and I have even used them on the same team, one powering through on its way down to open up holes for the other. Obviously it needs Rapid Spin support, help with Chansey, blah blah etc. (Although it does a respectable amount to standard Calm Chansey with Fire Blast, averaging 33% when Timid and 37% Modest.) Anyway, I've been using this:

Moltres @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Def/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Fire Blast
- Air Slash
- U-turn
- Flamethrower

The last slot is obviously up for grabs with Hidden Power, Overheat, or Sleep Talk the other possibilities, I guess. I personally like the 100% accurate option for certain situations. I usually use Timid to outspeed plus natured base 80s, Modest SpecsMegas, and to at worst tie with any non-Scarf Roserades. The main benefit of Modest that I found is the ability to 2hko standard Milotic if it's taken any prior damage after Stealth Rock with Air Slash (41.12% - 48.73%) and the ability to always 2hko standard Slowbro or Azumarill with Fire Blast. If you choose to use Hidden Power and have perfect prediction, those KOs would mean very little.
 
d2m said:
In other news, Dual Screen Mr. Mime is a beast. I've been using him as a lead, and while the rest of the team sucks, he always gets screens up and beats Yanmega 1 on 1 easily.
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This is interesting because Soundproof grants him immunity to Yanmega's Bug Buzz, and I'm sure his good special defense lets him take a couple Ais Slashes.
 
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