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np: UU - Rain Drops Keep Falling on my Head

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Good catch actually shrang, I didn't do calcs before I posted this and I was thinking maybe it'd be possible that Pokemon A can't 2HKO Pokemon B with Ice Beam, but after putting up Hail it becomes possible to 2HKO with Blizzard. Looks like the best special wall in UU is impervious to this strategy, while thinking about others ... Milotic, Slowking and Registeel all resist Ice, so without doing calcs I doubt anything would work there.

That said, I did want to avoid using Snover because 1) Snover's stats are heavily NFE and 2) using Snover practically forces you into a hail team. Sunnybeam Moltres doesn't force you into a Sun team, and there's always the element of surprise - by far the most common Moltres set after all is the LO + 3 attacks set, and Milotic is a good switch in to that, but Sunnybeam Moltres would beat Milotic easily. But even this doesn't work for Hail; after all, Ice Beam and Blizzard are the same attacking types.

Guess the idea is unworkable then ...
 
^Absolutely. SubRoostToxic Moltres just DOES. NOT. DIE. I suppose people are just preferring its massive offensive power in this period, especially with Froslass' Spikes everywhere.
 
Stall is really good, but I find the problem is that there are too many choices. Bulky Lass, Omastar, Registeel, Rotom, Spiritomb, Chansey, Altaria, SubRoost Moltres, Torterra, Blastoise, Hitmontop, and a ton more. It's difficult to choose which to put on your team.
 
I just don't know how to make stall teams.

I rather use the pokes eligible for a stall team... and make them as offensive as possible.

For example, all pokes Lonewolf mentioned:

Specs Froslass
Curse Registeel
CM Spiritomb
LO Moltres
Most offensive Torterra sets
Bulk Up Hitmontop

And so on...

Ok, Chansey needs to be defensive.
 
At the risk of seeing it on every single team now, I really have to say that Houndoom is an absolute beast. Whoever mentioned that it rips apart stall wasn't kidding. Really its only safe switch-in is Milotic, who is 2HKO'd by +2 Dark Pulse or +2 Fire Blast followed by +2 Dark Pulse. It solves the Froslass issue quite handily, and puts a ginormous dent in Swellow with Sucker Punch. It also OHKO's threats at +2 like Moltres, Rhyperior, and Torterra. It can be a bit hard to get +2, though. Also, Flash Fire boosts just make it more insanely awesome.

Also, has anyone else seen a bunch of Haunter lately?
 
Narulyg said:
At the risk of seeing it on every single team now, I really have to say that Houndoom is an absolute beast. Whoever mentioned that it rips apart stall wasn't kidding. Really its only safe switch-in is Milotic, who is 2HKO'd by +2 Dark Pulse or +2 Fire Blast followed by +2 Dark Pulse. It solves the Froslass issue quite handily, and puts a ginormous dent in Swellow with Sucker Punch. It also OHKO's threats at +2 like Moltres, Rhyperior, and Torterra. It can be a bit hard to get +2, though. Also, Flash Fire boosts just make it more insanely awesome.

Also, has anyone else seen a bunch of Haunter lately?
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Yes... screw this thing. It's a top tier threat and pisses me off every step of the way. a(I mean usually outclasses Typhlosion as a sweeper...) It's a good thing this thing is frail because I would be pissed off.

Correct me if i am wrong, but paragraph/upp req submission is due by the 29th right
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I think so, well the upp req's for sure.
 
I like Ninetales over Houndoom sometimes.

Ok, it doesn't hit nearly as hard, or has priority. But the boost on speed and defenses are nice, while Ninetales often tricks people thinking you're going to use Hypnosis just to be KOed by a NP HP Rock.

And hey, you can try a CM Pain Split Ninetales if you want (you won't...).

But yeah, Houndoom is very nice now. Anyone tried SubNP Doom yet?
 
M BLADE said:
I like Ninetales over Houndoom sometimes.

Ok, it doesn't hit nearly as hard, or has priority. But the boost on speed and defenses are nice, while Ninetales often tricks people thinking you're going to use Hypnosis just to be KOed by a NP HP Rock.

And hey, you can try a CM Pain Split Ninetales if you want (you won't...).

But yeah, Houndoom is very nice now. Anyone tried SubNP Doom yet?
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Ninetails ftw. I absolute detest houndoom so using something like her (hey that extra bulk can come in handy) is always nice.

Anyone try SubNP RAICHU? Double the badass factor for double the fun. I think Substitute is proably Raichu's best friend and it can really make the different. Bolt beam isn't even THAT bad either, but the loss of Encore hurts.
 
I thought I was the only one using Haunter despite the fact it's better offensively than Mismagius with power equivalent to LO Raikou's but with way better coverage. -__-

Oh, and use that Haunter set I posted in the NFE pokemon thread. It really pisses off Sucker Punch users without resorting to Substitute. Haunter is too frail to be using Pain Split unlike Gengar who actually has a decent Special Defense stat.

Houndoom does rip apart Stall, but I fixed that issue on my Stall team. Stall teams aren't that hard to build. I actually view the wide array of choices as a helpful tool when building my Stall teams.

Edit: I just kicked my old alt off the leaderboard as Chokmi with it having been 50. I guess I won't have 2. :(
 
CB Scyther and RP Rhyperior are an amazing dou.
Scyther itself is a great lure for many pokemon that Rhyperior can set up aka Rock and Steel Types. With U-turn Scyther can lore them in and ditch them only to find themselves (rocks and steels) staring down at Rhypeior. Rhyperior can then set up and do his work. It also works the otherway around as Rhyperior can take the rocks and steels allowing Scyther to Aerial Ace for clean up. They also cover eachothers weaknesses decently.

In regards to Aggron, I used to be a fan of the set that Gaming has been promoting; however after finding Rhyperior I found him still easy to set up, better dual Stab, better coverage, better power and doesn't fear fighting as much. Aggron still is a good pokemon

RP set and not that good are you crazy. A Rock and Ground type should be made that can hit hard and fast with its fantastic coverage. Not only does he have the coverage but he also has the power to back it up. I don't see why use him with his slow speed or defensively for that matter as defensively he is lacking. Overall Rhyperior is probably the superior RP. He has the bulk of the others the best Stabs and the highest attack.
 
LoveHate said:
CB Scyther and RP Aggron are an amazing dou.
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Fixed. Okay not really, but I can see Aggron working well too. (Not AS effective as Rhyperior)
[I like how they cover some each other's weaknesses]

but why not use a different Rhyperior set? The RP set isn't that good.
 
LoveHate said:
CB Scyther and RP Rhyperior are an amazing dou.
Scyther itself is a great lure for many pokemon that Rhyperior can set up aka Rock and Steel Types. With U-turn Scyther can lore them in and ditch them only to find themselves (rocks and steels) staring down at Rhypeior. Rhyperior can then set up and do his work. It also works the otherway around as Rhyperior can take the rocks and steels allowing Scyther to Aerial Ace for clean up. They also cover eachothers weaknesses decently.

In regards to Aggron, I used to be a fan of the set that Gaming has been promoting; however after finding Rhyperior I found him still easy to set up, better dual Stab, better coverage, better power and doesn't fear fighting as much. Aggron still is a good pokemon

RP set and not that good are you crazy. A Rock and Ground type should be made that can hit hard and fast with its fantastic coverage. Not only does he have the coverage but he also has the power to back it up. I don't see why use him with his slow speed or defensively for that matter as defensively he is lacking. Overall Rhyperior is probably the superior RP. He has the bulk of the others the best Stabs and the highest attack.
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Ah to each one's own. Still, my only beef with Rhyperior is that he NEEDS to run Jolly or he is just to slow.

Jolly Rhyperior maxes out at 379, slightly above Aggron's (+ atk)
350 attack. Aggron's Headsmash outdamages both of Rhyperior's moves by miles, and his Rock polish Adamant still outspeeds Jolly Rhyperior.

Really Headsmash is all he needs but I'll admit that Rhyperior has some nice coverage. I'm more inclined towards Steel/Rock when it's immune to ground imo. (Fighting types can easily worked around with)

To me, Rhyperior is better of running a CB set.
 
Narulyg said:
At the risk of seeing it on every single team now, I really have to say that Houndoom is an absolute beast. Whoever mentioned that it rips apart stall wasn't kidding. Really its only safe switch-in is Milotic, who is 2HKO'd by +2 Dark Pulse or +2 Fire Blast followed by +2 Dark Pulse. It solves the Froslass issue quite handily, and puts a ginormous dent in Swellow with Sucker Punch. It also OHKO's threats at +2 like Moltres, Rhyperior, and Torterra. It can be a bit hard to get +2, though. Also, Flash Fire boosts just make it more insanely awesome.

Also, has anyone else seen a bunch of Haunter lately?
Click to expand...

Which is exactly why I run Quick Attack on my Swellow. Because we've been discussing it, I'm guessing every Houndoom on the ladder now runs Sucker Punch, so I won't have to think twice about using Quick Attack instead of Facade.

I still cannot believe I haven't tried CB Scyther yet, it seems so good, but I never got around to using it. After going against Narulyg's team with three Pokemon with U-turn, I kind of want to make a team based around just spamming the move until you scout out their entire team. I've made one in OU and it worked really well (and I love imagining the look on people's faces when they switch Latias into my Infernape and get hit with a CB Super Effective U-turn). Only problem is that you end up with way too many choice users. Still, I think it might work.
 
Lonewolf9196 said:
Which is exactly why I run Quick Attack on my Swellow. Because we've been discussing it, I'm guessing every Houndoom on the ladder now runs Sucker Punch, so I won't have to think twice about using Quick Attack instead of Facade.
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I think the best part about QA is that it deals:
43.6% - 51.9% to Houndoom at the same time, it cancels it's sucker punch.
Seriously, Sub Dugtrio may be considered *bad* (beatup is generally run there) but running a sub just to beat down Houndoom is priceless.
 
I don't care about how much damage it does, I care about the fact that it cancels Sucker Punch. Although the fact that it 2HKO's in common battle conditions means you can't be outpredicted.
 
Just for 'the heck of it' I searched who learned Beat Up... turns out Charizard does. Which was very surprising... seems like he doesn't need Focus Punch/ Brick Break to beat Chansey after all.
 
Failll. Why is everyone running Toxicroak + Houndoom now??? ;_; It's made me stop using my best offensive team because it's too similar to everyone else.

Luckily a new team with Lopunny, Jynx, and Specsken is in the works! Specsken is actually pretty beast. 2HKOing Milotic ftw.
 
Too bad SpecsMortar is better on this regard.
Well, at least Ken doesn't suffer from SR damage that much. And has priority, i guess.


I'm trying LO/Specs Weezing just for the lulz. And hey, it isn't that bad.

Fire Blast/Thunderbolt/Sludge Bomb/Explosion. It catches many stall teams off guard for sure.
 
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