Basically. Well that and Rotom (awesome utility tool) and Manectric (UU's very own rising star)
AND the fact that Electric types won't be able to break Milotic anytime soon (Elective beats all of them at 1+) further irks me.
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NP: UU - Silent Night
- Thread starter reachzero
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Basically. Well that and Rotom (awesome utility tool) and Manectric (UU's very own rising star)
AND the fact that Electric types won't be able to break Milotic anytime soon (Elective beats all of them at 1+) further irks me.
I don't think anyone thinks Weezing is a counter to Sub/CB Rhyperior. If they do they must have never faced one.
The problem with Fire-types is that they only really get one chance at a sweep. All but Blaziken have a SR weak and they can't keep coming in. Most of the time Moltres can't even get a hit off because all it does it take 50% from rocks, and Roost as the counter switches in. Double Fire is really beastly though, but it's only really good against stall/balanced, since Fire-types aren't really all that fast and can't switch in on much. Houndoom is my favorite though. Against stall teams that run Bold Milotic, Passho Beat-Up Houndoom can 6-0 it on his own.
I really like the idea of Miltank as a curser, but it really doesn't have the right build for it. An ideal curser would have really good special defense and good enough defense to become too big to exploit after 1-2 curses, but Miltank has rather paltry spDef. The only good news is that its only weakness is primarily a physical attacking type.
I haven't tested a set yet, but in theory Munchlax has much better stats for exploiting a curse strategy. It lacks reliable recovery and scrappy, but a rest chesto set would probably be very good. Would anyone be willing to test this out with me? obviously I would be using the same defensive suite that every similar clefable, miltank, or umbreon team would use: Weezing, Spiritomb, Milotic, Rock Laying filler, Spike Laying filler.
EDIT: Yeah I suppose you are right Legacy Raider. It even gets Wish!
EDIT 2: I did some Lickilicky vs Munchlax calcs and Munchlax doesn't have the defense to take many physical attacks before several curses, however it does set up much more easily against Moltres.
Modest Life Orb Moltres Air Slash to 164 / 96 + SpD Munchlax: 35.4% - 41.8%
Modest Life Orb Moltres Fire Blast to 164 / 96 + SpD Munchlax (Thick Fat): 28.1% - 33.4%
Max Attack Adamant Leftovers Hitmontop to 164 / 248 Def Munchlax at +1 Def: 67.7% - 80.1%
Modest Life Orb Moltres Air Slash to 252 / 164 + SpD Lickilicky: 32.5% - 38.4%
Modest Life Orb Moltres Fire Blast to 252 / 164 + SpD Lickilicky: 51.7% - 60.8%
Max Attack Adamant Leftovers Hitmontop to 252 / 24 Def Lickilicky with +1 Def: 55.7% - 65.6%
I haven't tested a set yet, but in theory Munchlax has much better stats for exploiting a curse strategy. It lacks reliable recovery and scrappy, but a rest chesto set would probably be very good. Would anyone be willing to test this out with me? obviously I would be using the same defensive suite that every similar clefable, miltank, or umbreon team would use: Weezing, Spiritomb, Milotic, Rock Laying filler, Spike Laying filler.
EDIT: Yeah I suppose you are right Legacy Raider. It even gets Wish!
EDIT 2: I did some Lickilicky vs Munchlax calcs and Munchlax doesn't have the defense to take many physical attacks before several curses, however it does set up much more easily against Moltres.
Modest Life Orb Moltres Air Slash to 164 / 96 + SpD Munchlax: 35.4% - 41.8%
Modest Life Orb Moltres Fire Blast to 164 / 96 + SpD Munchlax (Thick Fat): 28.1% - 33.4%
Max Attack Adamant Leftovers Hitmontop to 164 / 248 Def Munchlax at +1 Def: 67.7% - 80.1%
Modest Life Orb Moltres Air Slash to 252 / 164 + SpD Lickilicky: 32.5% - 38.4%
Modest Life Orb Moltres Fire Blast to 252 / 164 + SpD Lickilicky: 51.7% - 60.8%
Max Attack Adamant Leftovers Hitmontop to 252 / 24 Def Lickilicky with +1 Def: 55.7% - 65.6%
I would probably try Lickilicky as a Curser before Munchlax. It has better rounded defenses and a better movepool, with access to stuff like Aqua Tail for good neutral coverage and Power Whip to punish Haze Milotic. Thick Fat is cool though, and a Munchlax sweep would be pretty amazing to watch as well :P.
Lilckilicky would be the prime Curser.. if it could use Wish+Heal Bell without the restriction.
110/95/95 incredibly bulky for a poke.
It would be like Umbreon, but without the bug weakness.
Well, it still works out with a Curse Sleep Talk set (or 2 attacks + Rest if you're greedy enough. Power Whip is the best option).
PS: Beaten. I hate this lol
PS2: Considering stats and all, Muk and Gastrodon also does a good job on Curse as they are immune to Trick (and they are also very bulky).
110/95/95 incredibly bulky for a poke.
It would be like Umbreon, but without the bug weakness.
Well, it still works out with a Curse Sleep Talk set (or 2 attacks + Rest if you're greedy enough. Power Whip is the best option).
PS: Beaten. I hate this lol
PS2: Considering stats and all, Muk and Gastrodon also does a good job on Curse as they are immune to Trick (and they are also very bulky).
Just today on the ladder 6 or 7 different people tried to switch ResTalk Weezing into SubPerior and WoW it -.-. My rating wasn't even that low, but I digress. Ladder isn't exactly filled with good players now anyhow.
Yes, fire types are hindered greatly by SR, but with an aggressive lead or spinner, it's not hard to delay or stop rocks from getting up and get something like Doom in once for free, at least in my experiences. I usually don't have too much trouble with switching Doom into rocks only once, and that's really all you need to do if you scout and weaken Milotic properly. Houndoom really only wants one oppurtunity to sweep, so SR shouldn't be that big of a detractor. You'd be surprised at how many chances it gets to come in when rocks aren't up early, at least against stall (Weezing, Tomb, etc.)
edit: as for Lickilicky, someone tell jamasha to bring back Support Lickilicky. what a fucking beast.
It's hard to say how Salamence will affect UU. I doubt any of the aforementioned mons will drop, though. Also, keep in mind that if OU were determined purely off June's suspect statistics, Snorlax, Mamoswine, and Hippowdon would also find themselves in UU.
However, more concerning is...
There is the very large possibility that Uxie will be leaving UU. Mesprit can probably replace her in a lot of roles, but it still won't be the same.
However, more concerning is...
There is the very large possibility that Uxie will be leaving UU. Mesprit can probably replace her in a lot of roles, but it still won't be the same.
Besides what everyone else said, don't you think cursing is kind of a waste of Miltank's surprising 100 base speed? I mean, it's only five points behind its best stat, and is only 5 points behind Scyther. Hell, it's the eighth fastest Pokemon in the tier.
I still like to use Uxie over Mesprit, I mean that bulk is no joke! Uxie in OU would piss me off to no end.
Ironically, one of the "OU peeps" who voted to legitimize Suspect as canon is reachzero. XD Also I'm incredibly uncertain as to whether I'll get the time to get my deviation back down, so GL I guess.
If I was going to use one normal type as a curser in this tier I would definitely agree that Lickilicky is the premier choice because of its 110/95/95 defenses and its access to moves like aqua tail, and stab return. Munchlax has better hp, but its poor stats everywhere else kind of make it so he has few chances to set up. Unappealing for a set up poke that needs a few curses.
Uxie OU, and Cresselia BL... strange...
Also about Lickilcky... because Explosion KO Lickilicky as well?
I rather use SD Explosion with Licky.
Eh, don't consider the Suspect Ladder statistics, as the number of.. hmm... let's name them as "clueless people"... that play the OU ladder but don't play the Suspect one is considerable. Long story short, OU ladder is filled with noob and Suspect not to much; so once the ladders are merged the reflects of that change should appear.
And Tyranitar doesn't beat Uxie nearly as easily as you make it sound...
And Tyranitar doesn't beat Uxie nearly as easily as you make it sound...
The reason that people use Miltank as a Curser is because it has a reliable STAB that nothing is immune to. Also, the Rock/Steels that resist Body Slam are almost assuredly physical attackers that will have trouble breaking through Miltank once it gets a Curse up. Miltank's speed actually helps it here, as it will be faster than the aforementioned wall even at -1, and will be able to Curse again before it gets hit. Not many physical hits can break though Miltank at +2. Then, for the special attackers that can actually kill Miltank, none of them enjoy eating Body Slams because of both their frailness and the paralysis chance. Miltank's average 70 base SpD and Normal typing are still enough to avoid being OHKOd by most special attacks, so it will always get a chance to smack the attacker with a Body Slam.
Possibly because some people don't want the fire and ground weakness. Or an easily resisted STAB.
Yeah, Registeel can net you some embarrassing wins, but overall it's just really bad. It's not so much the resisted STAB (Rotom is 2HKOed after a couple of Curses) as the weaknesses that make it hard not to be 3HKOed. Not to mention you're a sitting duck against every special attacker as opposed to statusing them like with regular Registeel.
Because they don't want to use something that, to quote one of the posts in QC about OU Milotic: "Sits there and jerks off".
DID SOMEONE SAY SOMETHING ABOUT LICKILICKY!?!!?!
In fact, QC wants you to reveal the secrets of your support Lickilicky.
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