np: UU Stage 5 - Every Rose Has Its Thorns

[DetroitLolcat]

Maybe a Kingdra to punish the opponents for setting up the Rain? If that doesn't fit well on your team, see if one of your Pokemon could use Sunny Day to troll opposing Rain abusers.

Rain is good but it can be stalled out pretty easily.

 

[PK Gaming]

Aggron's had a nice run in RU, but it's time for him to come home. Sand teams are still doing their thing, and many people forget to pack a Stoutland check or get their Rhyperior worn down too quickly. The big mineral dino has a much easier time coming in on both Return and Crunch, and takes 28.5% - 33.8% from Wild Charge at worst while Rhyperior has to worry about lucky crits or defense drops on a bad day.

Those who have played him any this gen or last knows what's gonna happen when he starts busting out CB Head Smashes, but another thing I was pleasantly surprised about is how effective Heavy Slam is as a secondary STAB; Hitmontop, a formerly decent counter, can't switch in on one of these to save his life and neither can Hippopotas. I was even tempted to use Heavy Metal on him once but it's not released and Heavy Slam caps at a disappointing 120 BP.

I've been using a LO + SR set. Its not as devastating as CB, and Aggron is easier to wear down, but setting up SR is always nice (I find that there aren't too many reliable SR users) and the freedom to choose your moves is always cool. Heavy Slam is a nice, like you said most of Aggron's checks are lightweights. Even Nidoqueen (oddly enough) gets hit with a base 120 Heavy Slam.

BTW, Heavy Metal is illegal.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

SJ mentioned in his post that HM is unreleased lolol

Aggron is interesting though, aside from SR it also has Head Smash to discourage Xatu from coming in to reflect SR. Nidoqueen being hit by 120BP Heavy Slam doesn't really matter imo when she outruns and OHKOs with Earth Power

 

[alexwolf]

SJ mentioned in his post that HM is unreleased lolol

Aggron is interesting though, aside from SR it also has Head Smash to discourage Xatu from coming in to reflect SR. Nidoqueen being hit by 120BP Heavy Slam doesn't really matter imo when she outruns and OHKOs with Earth Power

PK Gaming mentioned that he was using LO Aggron so i am assuming also max speed, which means that Aggron outspeeds and 2hkoes 100% of the time Nidoqueen with Heavy Slam after SR.

 

[SJCrew]

Not to mention even for slower sets it means she can't just switch in expecting Head Smash all of the time. Playing the guessing game between two STABs does matter when the player is in a position to use both. Of course, we're still dealing with Steel as an attacking type, so it's not like he's going to wreck teams by spamming Heavy Slam; just the targets he really needs to hit without predicting with coverage.

 

[DetroitLolcat]

Okay, you know what sucks?

I'll tell you what sucks, and it's Nasty Plot Mew. It's just so damn good. It's bulky as all hell so it can invest solely in Special Attack and Speed, giving it 328 Speed which is really fast in UU. It also gets every move in existence, such as Psyshock, Fire Blast, and a coverage move. So basically it can get 600 Special Attack with the click of a button, it's as fast as Life Orb Zapdos, and has coverage ad infinitum.

Anyone else use this thing? It's really fucking good.

 

[SJCrew]

You mean the Mew that everyone is using now after they discovered how bad Stallbreaker was?

Nah. Never seen it before.

Personally, I'm more partial to Swords Dance, since Mew's speed is about average in UU and he can't always get the sweep he wants even lategame. It's more of a wallbreaker. The brilliant thing about SD is that you don't have to predict with Sucker Punch if you don't want to. You can just take out a faster check with Drain Punch after they fail to KO. Weakened or less bulky Scarfers simply can't hurt you.

I'm debating using Wild Charge over STAB so that I wouldn't have problems with Slowbro or Deoxys.

 

[FlareBlitz]

I've been using a team that is based around using Agility Zapdos to pass to various things and it's been weirdly successful. Zapdos / LO Nidoking have excellent synergy, as do Zapdos / LO Empoleon, and both of these things absolutely wreck if they get a +2 boost. And really, Zapdos itself has swept quite a few teams, just because offensive teams often rely on forcing it out with faster Pokemon and wearing it down. Its biggest problem right now is maintaining offensive pressure against stall teams (who don't really care about speed boosts).

Spikestacking has really died down recently. I think all the people who have been bad at using it have...stopped. Unfortunately, this means the metagame is starting to become unprepared for the strategy again. I'm not seeing nearly as many levitators or Xatus around.
I have, over time, tested various spikestack abuse Pokemon, and I think I have an idea of the kind of team I want to build around the concept. I think I will do that once the agility team ceases to satisfy me.

In general, anyone have any opinions on individual Pokemon that may appear broken? I've heard a lot of half-hearted complaining about Kingdra, for example.

 

[Scoopapa]

Maybe a solid bulky choice bander would help that kind of team against stall. Even though it may seem like a waste to pass your speed off to a Choiced mon, if it's a bulky nuke with spammable STAB it could still receive boosts pretty well. Aggron, Rhyperior, or Heracross could probably work well. Too bad Escavalier is too slow!

 

[PK Gaming]

SJ mentioned in his post that HM is unreleased lolol

Aggron is interesting though, aside from SR it also has Head Smash to discourage Xatu from coming in to reflect SR. Nidoqueen being hit by 120BP Heavy Slam doesn't really matter imo when she outruns and OHKOs with Earth Power

Hide

Everybody knows I only read 20% of posts anyway.

In general, anyone have any opinions on individual Pokemon that may appear broken? I've heard a lot of half-hearted complaining about Kingdra, for example.

Happens all the time. Its one of those Pokemon that doesn't get used nearly as much as it should be. I'm glad though, Kingdra is mad bullshit (guessing the set... urgh) but I wouldn't consider it broken. Maybe at the peak of UU dominance, idk.

 

[SJCrew]

I've noticed Spikes stacking lose a bit of flavor among the worse players too, Flare. However, I'm still seeing Deoxys-D constantly, so I'm still well-prepared for it.

Another alternative I've discovered to Rapid Spinning is Wish passing. Instead of feeding my paranoia and carrying a Blastoise on literally every team I make, I'm trying out Alomomola to simply pass around HP with Heracross around to fend off Deoxys-D and Froslass. This is the first time I've really attempted to work around Spikes without resorting to Rapid Spin or Xatu (sometimes both). Fortunately, we're not exactly short on Levitate users either.

 

[alexwolf]

Or just use a specially defensive Xatu with U-Turn in a very offensive team that doesn't let most SR users set it up and you are fine.
This means that almost any of your offensive mons must be able to ohko the most common SR users which are Mew, Rhyperior, Azelf, Swampert and Empoelon. And if you want also put Deoxys-D, which however is seem more often with only Spikes.
The common thing about those mons is that they either get wrecked by grass moves or are handled by Xatu, which means that if most of your attackers carry a grass move and you have a Xatu, most of the times hazards will be no problem, since Xatu takes care of any relevant Spiker in UU (Deoxys-D, Roserade, Qwilfish) except for Froslass.

 

[SJCrew]

This is the first time I've really attempted to work around Spikes without resorting to Rapid Spin or Xatu

The point I'm trying to make is that while we may seem confined to the tried and true methods of dealing with Spikes, it helps a little to simply make your team not quite as vulnerable to them. Wishpassing is a mostly forgotten method of support with Chansey gone, but Alomomola is the next best HP tank we have. You can't count on much else to heal a Snorlax.

 

[Heysup]

Froslass usually bypasses Xatu pretty easily, I'm surprised at how often i see it.

 

[fatty]

umbreon rivals aloma as a good wish passer atm. it checks a shit ton of special attackers like raikou and mismagius, and can help wear down almost anything not steel typed. this is why hitmontop is a really good partner because together they check different threats for eachother and make spikestacking a non issue with wish + rapid spin.

 

[TLCJR4LIFE]

I think stall in general is falling out of favour with Chansey going up....hence less Spike stacking...however Deoxys D certainly hasn't.

 

[D4RR3N]

I think stall in general is falling out of favour with Chansey going up....hence less Spike stacking...however Deoxys D certainly hasn't.

yeah, stall is very hard to pull off in the current metagame, considering Spike stacking offense is a really common strategy and most teams carries spinners nowadays.

 

[Nysyr]

I feel that Deo-D is more of a problem than roserade when it comes to free spikes, since the only thing that really ohkos is a boosted megahorn from heracross. If you don't do more than 60% you are probably going to get PP stalled out from recovering.


Roserade really can't stay in on as many things once on of their pokes is asleep due to being so frail on the defensive side.

 

[shofly12]

I would disagree. Deo-D has absolutely no offensive presence, so if it's running seismic toss, any ghost can set up on it for free. If its running night shade, normal types (togekiss anyone?) can set up on it for free. rosie, on the other hand, can actually hit decently hard with STAB giga drain and sludge bomb.

 

[SJCrew]

You're going to set up for free on a 90-base speed Taunt with Togekiss?

Deoxys-D doesn't need an offensive presence. He is an infamous staller, known to wear down many teams by simply attacking, Taunting, and recovering. It really doesn't matter which move you choose between Night Shade and Seismic Toss; neither Normal nor Ghost types alone are dangerous enough to where him not being able to hurt one could ruin the entire match. I'm a lot more partial to Night Shade though, since it makes it harder for Sableye to get in with layers up and Froslass can't just have her way with you.

 

[Avira]

Why are people using Claydol in UU? Honestly, Hitmontop and Blastoise are the two that will get spins. Claydol will only set up SR and then probably be useless for the rest of the match.

 

[spuds4ever]

Why are people using Claydol in UU? Honestly, Hitmontop and Blastoise are the two that will get spins. Claydol will only set up SR and then probably be useless for the rest of the match.

Probably because they don't realise their potential or they desperately need claydol's resistances. He's still vastly out-classed though in UU and even in RU where every spin-blocker to every exist walls him to kingdom come.

Why are we discussing spikes again? What can we actually gain from a topic that's been talked to death? Why not discuss something different, like how HO fares in UU?

I personally think it's a very viable playstyle seeing as there are some really tough hitters in UU now with Darmanitan and chandelure roaming about and there are enough bulky things with good offensive presence, like suicune and rhyperio. It would also have a pretty easy time on stall seeing how easy hazards are to set up with deoxys and roserade.

 

[Dewhinifier]

Probably because they don't realise their potential or they desperately need claydol's resistances. He's still vastly out-classed though in UU and even in RU where every spin-blocker to every exist walls him to kingdom come.

Why are we discussing spikes again? What can we actually gain from a topic that's been talked to death? Why not discuss something different, like how HO fares in UU?

I personally think it's a very viable playstyle seeing as there are some really tough hitters in UU now with Darmanitan and chandelure roaming about and there are enough bulky things with good offensive presence, like suicune and rhyperio. It would also have a pretty easy time on stall seeing how easy hazards are to set up with deoxys and roserade.

HO seems very viable in UU and is a tier in which I haven't tried it. I don't see why it wouldn't--UU has many menacing sweepers like the previously mentioned darm and chandy.

i can see trouble with it only due to the presence of suicune, registeel, and deo d...but, if played correctly, those can be removed quickly. Phazing also seems very popular in this tier in my experience, so set up sweepers would have to beware.

(pardon me if this sounds dumb, i'm posting this while sick so i ain't thinking straight :p might edit this to say something smarter later.)

 

[Drawler]

SD Mew is a bitch. Most of things that outspeed Mew are murdered by Sucker Punch at +2 and/or can't get the KO. Mew breaks through a ton of slower mons with SD and Drain Punch.

Choice Band Weavile and Scarf Heracross are the only faster checks I can think of that can reliably OHKO Mew and not be killed beforehand with a Sucker Punch.

 

[Yeah Galo Sengan]

ho is definitely viable in uu nowadays, at least more so now that chansey's out

scarfgon is as good as always, offensive cm suicune is really good right now

hell, i've even gone back to running suicide leads such as azelf/aerodactyl