np: UU Stage 5 - Every Rose Has Its Thorns

[Ace Emerald]

ho is definitely viable in uu nowadays, at least more so now that chansey's out

scarfgon is as good as always, offensive cm suicune is really good right now

hell, i've even gone back to running suicide leads such as azelf/aerodactyl

Imo, ho is merely 'alright'. It can't consistently break through the bulky offense that is everywhere right now. Thats not to say it can't beat the bulky offense pokemon, but it is terribly inconsistent. I've played several ho teams, and the ladder rating trend is a huge spike in rating initially, then it wavers between 1350-1250 pretty much forever. This is true every ho team I've had, and while it very well could be a user error, I feel my ho teams have all been pretty solid.
On a different note, if you want a suicide lead Scolipede is the best. It has spikes, and beats the majority of opposing 'leads'. Swarm Megahorn after sash breaks is pretty fun too.

 

[CommandurrClowncrete]

Has anyone tried volt-turn in UU? I am thinking about scarf flygon and specs raikou. Maybe throw xatu in as well to counter deo-d. will try it out.

 

[GTS]

Has anyone tried volt-turn in UU? I am thinking about scarf flygon and specs raikou. Maybe throw xatu in as well to counter deo-d. will try it out.

I've experimented with Raikou+Azelf and Zapdos+Darmanitan. Both are pretty potent, but I need to try them out a bit more before I can say.

I've also used Rotom-H in the past for it, and he's especially helpful because his volt switch will hit Waters trying to tank Overheats. And even if they don't go to their water, you get the switch advantage anyway. (as long as its not swampert...)

Oh yeah, Cobalion gets Volt Switch! I found that pretty interesting....

 

[Yeah Galo Sengan]

i tried volt-turn a few months ago, uu definitely has enough viable users of the moves

off the top of my head we have crobat, azelf, rotom formes, zapdos, raikou, jolteon, lanturn, cobalion, zoroark, flygon, mew, ambipom and darmanitan

you'd need a solid core that can capitalize on the constant chip damage

e: cobalion is an especially interesting user of volt switch as it is 4x resistant to sr and immune to toxic spikes, making it very easy to switch in repeatedly

 

[Snunch]

stop it

one of the reasons that uu is so good is because there is no voltturn

new topic: KINGDRA IS GOOD!

...ok, while u-turn and volt switch are good moves, and having multiple pokemon with those moves is convienent, it's not worth going out of your way to use inferior sets or weaken your synergy just to include them. The main reason that scizor and rotom work so well together is their amazing offensive and defensive synergy, not the fact that you can mindlessly click a switching move and get to 1300 on the ladder. UU simply doesn't have such a convenient and abusable core and it isn't worth weakening your team just so you can use laughable sets like volt switch Cobalion.

 

[spuds4ever]

Yes, don't bring volt-turn down here too...

Yup, Kingdra is awesome. I personally think the chesto-rest set is the best (super rhyme, poetic genius). Can't really be out-stalled and has 2 great STABs to work with. Especially with the lack of good phazers in UU, with suicune and empoleon being the only viable ones to take him on.

 

[GTS]

I just posted about Kingdra in the Rain Dance thread, but yes he is very powerful in this metagame. Great typing allows him many resistances but also two wonderful attacking STABs. Also, the low number of counters for him make him a threat to any team. If you lose Empoleon early, or the haxgods hate you and Kingdra crits him, it could go on to sweep yr entire team if you have no back up answer.

another mon that can kinda counter him is Blastoise, who can take outrage and roar him out.

Registeel can take his hits, but can't do much more than TWave him, and the Rest variants will lulz the day away. Ferroseed also suffers from 'sit there and do nothing' disease, with only Leech Seed + Protect as a means of damage. (Seed bomb and gyro ball do jack shit 2 kingdra)

 

[jamashawalker]

stop it

one of the reasons that uu is so good is because there is no voltturn

new topic: KINGDRA IS GOOD!

...ok, while u-turn and volt switch are good moves, and having multiple pokemon with those moves is convienent, it's not worth going out of your way to use inferior sets or weaken your synergy just to include them. The main reason that scizor and rotom work so well together is their amazing offensive and defensive synergy, not the fact that you can mindlessly click a switching move and get to 1300 on the ladder. UU simply doesn't have such a convenient and abusable core and it isn't worth weakening your team just so you can use laughable sets like volt switch Cobalion.

this! you could try volturning UU but it wont be good pretty much at all because the two main abusers in OU are threats within their own rights. Scizor has bullet punch, great bulk and a great attack power while rotom can threaten any ground that wants to switch into volt switch. The strongest U-turners that sorta have the strength of scizor are SR weak and the volt switchers provide borderline no synergy with anything. Unless someone wants to test volturning here in UU lol cause personally i dont see it being nearly as productive as in OU

 

[GTS]

this! you could try volturning UU but it wont be good pretty much at all because the two main abusers in OU are threats within their own rights. Scizor has bullet punch, great bulk and a great attack power while rotom can threaten any ground that wants to switch into volt switch. The strongest U-turners that sorta have the strength of scizor are SR weak and the volt switchers provide borderline no synergy with anything. Unless someone wants to test volturning here in UU lol cause personally i dont see it being nearly as productive as in OU

so zapdos and darmanitan are not threats in their own right? or flygon or raikou?

I agree with parts of what you said, but just because the mons who abuse it in OU are borderline broken, does not alter the viability of the strategy in UU at all.

It's hitting a whole myriad of different mons there than it would be here, and its dealing with totally different playstyles etcetera. Another reason its such a potent strategy is because Drizzle neuters Scizors fire weakness and boosts Rotom's Hydro Pump to god levels.

You are right about the majority of the good turners being weak to rocks, etc. but, you -can- play around it. Xatu makes it very hard to get rocks up, and ironically gets u-turn too, so it works in the overall strategy.

Most people liken volt turn to just mindlessly clicking u turn or volt switch, and thinking they have made a great play because they get the chance to switch on you, but... any strategy is stupid if you click mindlessly, be it HO or stall or anything else. A good player will know when to switch, when to turn, etc. etc.

But, I think the overall consensus is to forget about volt turn, and i'm not rly trying to defend it.

 

[Heysup]

So just to clarify, we are actually talking about Voltturn in the most entry hazard-heavy metagame since gen 4 old UU. Sure Spikes and Stealth Rock has great synergy with Voltturn but hazards make any sort of switching a mistake.

 

[Super Mario Bro]

So does anyone use Toxic Spikes? I really haven't seen much of them, but that's probably because there are so many Toxic Spikes absorbers around.

 

[spuds4ever]

So does anyone use Toxic Spikes? I really haven't seen much of them, but that's probably because there are so many Toxic Spikes absorbers around.

Roserade is a very popular toxic spiker, as it can have sleep powder if it takes toxic spikes. Nidoqueen and qwilfish do also do good jobs of it but are seen much more rarely. Toxic spikes are still very good in my opinion so long as you get rid of the opponent's roserade/nidoking first.

 

[Dewhinifier]

So does anyone use Toxic Spikes? I really haven't seen much of them, but that's probably because there are so many Toxic Spikes absorbers around.

Meh, in my opinion...spikes are just more useful in the long run. Yes, t spikes can debilitate the opponent, but spikes is gonna rip up the opponent everytime they switch in a poke that isn't a flier.

 

[NirvanaR]

Yes, there are many poison-types (that are grounded) in UU so obviously TS are pretty useless.

 

[Yeah Galo Sengan]

you can count in roserade being on pretty much 90% of teams on ladder so toxic spikes are a no go

 

[Meru]

Toxic Spikes weren't used in last gen's UU because Venusaur was such a dominant pokemon. The same can pretty much be said for gen V replacing Venusaur with Roserade

 

[Razza]

things i love about BW UU:
losing games i should be winning because of sand veil :]]]]]]]]]]] XD XD

 

[FlareBlitz]

things i love about BW UU:
losing games i should be winning because of sand veil :]]]]]]]]]]] XD XD

Everyone started whining when we suggested banning the ability based on evasion clause, even though it's pretty clearly uncompetitive. It's just something we'll have to deal with :\

Speaking of which though, I'm a little amused at the resurgence of sand in the tier. I think many of the top players are using sand, at least sporadically, but it seems that there's not nearly the outcry over it that we had when big hippo was around.

 

[NirvanaR]

Then I am going to try out MixKingdra with Rain Dance.

 

[TheBaron]

Yeah, I use sand (Hippopotas-Stoutland-Rhyperior-Cobalion-Empoleon-Clefable), but I do seem to have problems with Rain Dance teams. If they have a Kingdra that can set up weather, I am toast. Many of the other sand players I have talked to have this problem. I am not saying that Rain Dance is broken or even needing to be checked. I am just saying that it prevents sand from being broken.

 

[jamashawalker]

I've been trolling around with hippo+Stout and 4 other gimmicky but viable pokes paired with them and Ive always ended up on the top of the ladder. CB Lopunny,Switcheroo Whimiscott anyone? Whitequeen got me with a TR Slowking which Ive been trying with rampardos and sandteams and still im consistently finding myself on the top of the ladder. It's amazing the types of creativity you can have with Hippo+Stoutland

 

[Forte.EXE]

but it seems that there's not nearly the outcry over it that we had when big hippo was around.

I'd assume that's because Hippopotas is pretty terrible for anything other than setting up sand and tanking a few physical hits.

 

[casey90]

Man having no suspects is starting to get really.......boring, I miss the turmoil of broken mons. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying lets bring back raptor or hail, but I can't wait till We get a third version, UU needs a good shake up, or at least some more important DW abilities like SR Sandslash.

 

[Scoopapa]

Yeah, I use sand (Hippopotas-Stoutland-Rhyperior-Cobalion-Empoleon-Clefable), but I do seem to have problems with Rain Dance teams. If they have a Kingdra that can set up weather, I am toast. Many of the other sand players I have talked to have this problem. I am not saying that Rain Dance is broken or even needing to be checked. I am just saying that it prevents sand from being broken.

Personally when I see Kingdra in team preview I never let my Hippopotas die until I am sure that it isn't going to use Rain Dance. That may be easier said than done but I think the fact that you have to play a little riskier to save hippo is counterbalanced by the fact that your opponent is probably going hold off on setting up until hippo is dead and thus won't be utilizing Kingdra as early (or they will set up prematurely and you get your weather back later).

Shell Smash Omastar is another pretty underrated sand mon that can turn the tables on teams with a single Rain Dance user. It benefits from the SpD boost in sand but with Swift Swim you can turn the tables on a team that uses a standalone rain sweeper. If you set up in sand, note that Kingdra can revenge kill you, but will die to sand after SR, so if you're worried about it setting up rain that can be a good trade.

I would also highly recommend fitting Roserade onto a sand team. It may not help as much against specifically Kingdra but it handles other water- and grass-types really well. A special defensive set may even be decent at dealing with Rain Dance Kingdra specifically, though I don't know exactly how much damage they do to each other.

Man having no suspects is starting to get really.......boring, I miss the turmoil of broken mons. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying lets bring back raptor or hail, but I can't wait till We get a third version, UU needs a good shake up, or at least some more important DW abilities like SR Sandslash.

SR Slash will be sweet but I hope it doesn't lead to banning hippo. I don't want to have to make a new team. What we really need is a third game and some tutors! I'm personally hoping that they hand out Quiver Dance and Shell Smash like candy on halloween. Flygon has bug wings, give that guy QD. Shelgon has shell in his name, lets have some Smashmence plz.

 

[Razza]

Man having no suspects is starting to get really.......boring, I miss the turmoil of broken mons. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying lets bring back raptor or hail, but I can't wait till We get a third version, UU needs a good shake up, or at least some more important DW abilities like SR Sandslash.

The whole point of testing and bans is to provide a stable metagame, we now have that (or close enough) and your complaining there isnt enough broken stuff? i guess you can never please some people...