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np: UU Stage 5 - Every Rose Has Its Thorns
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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Last I checked Top is slow as hell and gets taunted.....-_-
last i checked top wasnt switching into deo-d
I don't carry a spinner. Spinning isn't worth it right now.
Stop making stupid points. You can't say Top handles Deo-D then later preface it with "Oh only if Deo-D switches into Toxic" that's retarded.
Deo-D beats Top...period. There's generally very little reason to switch Deo into Top anyway....most Tops that people are using have very little offensive presence and Deo-D can't really force it out...
how is spinning not worth it when spikes defines the meta? yea, i'll admit it takes some work to pull a spin off against a quality team, but once you do spin it makes it a whole lot easier for the rest of your team to function. some teams are better off w/o having to cram a spinner on, i'll give you that as well seeing as your team probably falls under this category, but to make a general statement that spinning isn't worth it is borderline absurd when it's the only thing stopping slower based teams from being swept by everything and their mother w/ a shit ton of entry hazards on the field.
Magic Coat says hi! Magic Coat is a wonderful move for Deoxys-D, allowing you to beat other non Magic Coat Deoxys-D and any faster Taunter. Put a Rocky Helmet on Deoxys-D and you will find that even without any attacking move you can kill or stall out most physical attackers and some special attackers too.
I find it sad that most stuff that threaten Deoxys D are usually only late game sweepers(when deoxys D is an early-mid game poke) or can easily be walled. CB heracross is a special case though. Man when it comes down to switching in and threatening deoxys D, the team synergy it has with anything is just amazing more than its walling capabilitiies. Its bulk pretty much means you need to have a high attack power to 2HKO or hit it with a super effective attack all which is easy to wall with something else.
On a side note I recently played in game BW and found archen to be a BEAST! Im trying to make archeops work but it is soo hard to make it work. I ask myself why? a 140 base attack power with 110 spe is just too good but offensively its been completely underwhelming. Then I realized what this metagame is turning into, a miniature state of what OU is now. A bulky powerful metagame. Most of the top sweepers and hitters in this metagame can take a hit or two before dying, unlike archeops who shouldnt be touched at all. Idk its just something ive noticed shifting in this metagame and right now I cant wait for an OU drop to shake things up again
On a side note I recently played in game BW and found archen to be a BEAST! Im trying to make archeops work but it is soo hard to make it work. I ask myself why? a 140 base attack power with 110 spe is just too good but offensively its been completely underwhelming. Then I realized what this metagame is turning into, a miniature state of what OU is now. A bulky powerful metagame. Most of the top sweepers and hitters in this metagame can take a hit or two before dying, unlike archeops who shouldnt be touched at all. Idk its just something ive noticed shifting in this metagame and right now I cant wait for an OU drop to shake things up again
I know you're replying to Flare, but I'll just say I've never, ever used a spinner in UU, ever. It's just not worth it when the spinners themselves have little offensive presence whatsoever. You're only going to be vulnerable to Spikes if you team is relatively slow and defensive. If all you're team is offensive enough, opposing teams wouldn't dare to set up Spikes on you because that's just time they're wasting. Putting Levitators and Flying-types also decreases the need to spinners, I've seen heaps of people try and set up Spikes against my teams when I only have, what, one Pokemon that is susceptible?
While that is true, teams like the one I use and I am sure other people use, impose such pressure that I almost always prevent the opponent from switching in their spinner safely and even when they manage to spin, its a tad to late...also if they do I set up on them, simple as. reaching no.1 a week ago with 3 Pokemon weak to SR i can say for sure that with the right amount of pressure and by that I mean carrying Pokemon that sweep so easily (I mean come on Magnet Rise magneton+kingdra+yanmega is a winning trio?). I don't need a spinner, nor do I need a spinblocker because my 5 other mons bar Deoxys-D set up on all types and kinds of spinners making it too easy to sweep.
On a sidenote, has anyone been using SD Weaville lately...that thing sweeps whole teams once hazards are down and I don't even use LO not to mention that it also takes out the top threats such as Roserade, Flygon and other weakened sweepers. People bring in their only 'check' a.k.a registeel only to be hit by a +2 low kick which demolishes them.
I prefer LO with Ice Shard over SD, but both variants are downright devastating. He can really come in any time and cause problems for your opponent, be it a revenge or a late game sweep job.
He is afraid of Mach Punch, and fighting types in general, but if you can rid your opponent of that, he doesn't have much standing in his way.
He is afraid of Mach Punch, and fighting types in general, but if you can rid your opponent of that, he doesn't have much standing in his way.
Spinning is a waste of offensive momentum as long as deo-d exists. Do you think I care when someone brings in their fat water turtle to spin? No. I just take the opportunity to massively weaken / kill it, and then get easy hazards with deo-d again.
Obviously, stall can't function without a spinner...but that's just another reason why stall is extremely difficult to play in this metagame.
Heck, I almost forgot weavile was in UU for a sec there. I never see it any more...I'd say it's because of how common hitmontop is, but that would just expand the fact that I am a noob...
Meh, I run Sub-Split Chandy along with a spinner, and he loves him some Deoxys-D to switch in on and set up a sub.
On a related note, has anyone else noticed more people using non-choiced Heracross lately ? I've been caught with my pants down a few times by switching Deoxy-D out and my bug resist in only to have him use SD or Substitute.
Yeah, they've ditched Choice items lately. I, personally, am seeing more Life Orbed Heracrosses, but that's just the terrible rating field I'm in.
Spikes is an irritance as there are some really good setters in the tier. It's not impossible to get around though. I find that just keeping them off the field early in the game is very important. A fast taunter like mew will have the opponent fumbling over what to do next while you can set up something nasty yourself.
Personally, I think it's just a matter of maintaining strong offensive presence to keep them off. I don't think it's really worth taking a slot out for a spinner in offensive teams as pressure isn't hard to maintain in this tier with power-houses like chandelure, heracross, darmanitan and the like, as well as some really dangerous set-up sweepers like kingdra, houndoom, sawsbuck (don't under-estimate this thing), and raikou.
Spikes offense is a popular tactic. I've said it once, and I'll say it again, it's not actually that hard to get around.
Personally, I think it's just a matter of maintaining strong offensive presence to keep them off. I don't think it's really worth taking a slot out for a spinner in offensive teams as pressure isn't hard to maintain in this tier with power-houses like chandelure, heracross, darmanitan and the like, as well as some really dangerous set-up sweepers like kingdra, houndoom, sawsbuck (don't under-estimate this thing), and raikou.
Spikes offense is a popular tactic. I've said it once, and I'll say it again, it's not actually that hard to get around.
I catch how good weavile was before the last tier shift, and with the come of 2012 it's just even better. A lot of teams are weavile weak (the only common things that stops weavile are hitmontop and somewhat bronzong) and when I used it I had great success, reaching 1400 points without much difficulty... Oh, and spinners are not necessary if you play correctly from what I have seen. I haven't played UU for 3 weeks though
Has anyone been using Grass-types other than Roserade? I've tried out Tangrowth and I'm really happy with the results. It takes pretty much any physical hit apart from Megahorn from Heracross, has sleep powder, leech seed, and regenerator. Definitely shouldn't be overlooked because of Roserade!
I've seen rotom cut every once in a while. I haven't used anything but roserade cuz of the special bulk it has...which comes in handy a lot. I guess the secondary poison tying does have its advantages too.
I haven't rly considered tangrowth...I might try it the next time I play UU, idk. I haven't thought much about it...
The problem with using Tangrowth as sort of a physically defensive alternative to Roserade is that most of the physical attackers in the tier can outspeed and 1hko or 2hko Tangrowth with their stabs, run mixed or special sets that accomplish the same thing, or setup on him.
Roserade can outrun and threaten many of the special attackers who can 2hko him. Tangrowth can do that with.......Rhyperior or Azumarril, maybe ( they both speed tie him ). Tangrowth is in that weird position Pory2 was in last gen where he works better in OU than in UU.
Roserade can outrun and threaten many of the special attackers who can 2hko him. Tangrowth can do that with.......Rhyperior or Azumarril, maybe ( they both speed tie him ). Tangrowth is in that weird position Pory2 was in last gen where he works better in OU than in UU.
Rotom-Cut is a decent Grass Pokemon, but he really doesn't "fit" in the UU metagame.
Because of Grass being a mediocre type and Rotom-C not being able to be strong and bulky at the same time, it just isn't worth using for most UU teams. It's definitely a decent Pokemon, but before using it, you want to ask yourself:
1. Why am I using this over Rotom-H?
2. Why am I using this over another Grass type?
Grass is not a good typing in the current meta. Victini, Bronzong, and the Electric types (who all use a Fire or Ice move) kind of rain on the mower's parade, and that's really just the tip of the iceberg. Though there's plenty of Bulky Waters to set up on, other Grasses like Shaymin (who has a sweet 100 base Speed) and Roserade (stronger and can Spike) are better in most cases. For those reasons, I don't see Rotom-cu(n)t being a staple, or even a major threat, in UU.
Tangrowth, however, is a totally different story. Tangrowth, though hazard weak, is a simply fantastic defensive Pokemon. It has good mixed attacking stats, Sleep Powder, and Regenerator which restores more than Spikes (level 1 or 2) and SR combined. It walls nearly any physical threat, can't be easily set up on (though a few mons can set up on it, so be careful!), and works decently enough in this meta. Steels kind of deep six it though.
Because of Grass being a mediocre type and Rotom-C not being able to be strong and bulky at the same time, it just isn't worth using for most UU teams. It's definitely a decent Pokemon, but before using it, you want to ask yourself:
1. Why am I using this over Rotom-H?
2. Why am I using this over another Grass type?
Grass is not a good typing in the current meta. Victini, Bronzong, and the Electric types (who all use a Fire or Ice move) kind of rain on the mower's parade, and that's really just the tip of the iceberg. Though there's plenty of Bulky Waters to set up on, other Grasses like Shaymin (who has a sweet 100 base Speed) and Roserade (stronger and can Spike) are better in most cases. For those reasons, I don't see Rotom-cu(n)t being a staple, or even a major threat, in UU.
Tangrowth, however, is a totally different story. Tangrowth, though hazard weak, is a simply fantastic defensive Pokemon. It has good mixed attacking stats, Sleep Powder, and Regenerator which restores more than Spikes (level 1 or 2) and SR combined. It walls nearly any physical threat, can't be easily set up on (though a few mons can set up on it, so be careful!), and works decently enough in this meta. Steels kind of deep six it though.
I've found that Tangrowth, while having an outstanding ability and the defensive stats to complement it, just doesn't have the physically defensive typing needed for UU. Think of the top physically offensive threats: Victini, Darmanitan, Arcanine, Heracross, Weavile, Escavalier, Kingdra, Flygon, Rhyperior. All of these pokemon except Kingdra, Rhyperior, and Flygon possess STABs that destroy Tangrowth. Slowbro, however, resists the first three, as well as Heracross's Fighting-type. Slowbro is just as good at countering Rhyperior as Tangrowth. Kind of ignoring Kingdra and Flygon since they can easily get around both of them with Draco Meteor and U-turn respectively.
Tangrowth really excels at tanking physical Ground- and Water-types, which haven't been prominent in OU since the Garchomp and Excadrill metas. Even the Gliscors he used to counter are now shifting to Acrobatics, losing his niche as one of the more resilient Gliscor counters. (Not to mention Gliscor plummeted in usage after those metas ended.)
It's unfortunate because all of his nemeses in the upper tiers have STABs that get around his typing. Hence why he's well at home in the RU tier, where he can stop physical threats like Feraligatr, Sharpedo, Rhydon, and Golurk cold. (Or in Sharpedo's case, make him run an inferior set)
Tangrowth really excels at tanking physical Ground- and Water-types, which haven't been prominent in OU since the Garchomp and Excadrill metas. Even the Gliscors he used to counter are now shifting to Acrobatics, losing his niche as one of the more resilient Gliscor counters. (Not to mention Gliscor plummeted in usage after those metas ended.)
It's unfortunate because all of his nemeses in the upper tiers have STABs that get around his typing. Hence why he's well at home in the RU tier, where he can stop physical threats like Feraligatr, Sharpedo, Rhydon, and Golurk cold. (Or in Sharpedo's case, make him run an inferior set)
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