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np: UU Stage 5 - Every Rose Has Its Thorns
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
- Start date
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I'd like to raise a major concern I think need discussing and it's about time too the most significant of which is Keldeo.
For those who have been following Keldeo is due to be released upon Wifi soon, however those who play DW will know how this thing utterly rips entire teams almost solo. What will UU's stance be on this? Auto-ban until stats come out to affirm it is OU? Allow into UU and possibly watch all hell break loose?
Secondly is please I'd like some serious consideration and verdict on Deoxys-D, this thing is fucking obnoxious. UU has enough issues with it being completely controlled and revolving around hazards. I'm not sure I have ever seen an actual official verdict on the thing even though it was brought up along with Roserade at times.
For those who have been following Keldeo is due to be released upon Wifi soon, however those who play DW will know how this thing utterly rips entire teams almost solo. What will UU's stance be on this? Auto-ban until stats come out to affirm it is OU? Allow into UU and possibly watch all hell break loose?
Secondly is please I'd like some serious consideration and verdict on Deoxys-D, this thing is fucking obnoxious. UU has enough issues with it being completely controlled and revolving around hazards. I'm not sure I have ever seen an actual official verdict on the thing even though it was brought up along with Roserade at times.
The reason we didn't do it previously was because once we brought up the idea, a very large number of people immediately started complaining about it. And while the higher ranked players almost exclusively supported giving it the boot (with notable exceptions like Heysup) I think the overall community sentiment was that it was balanced in the tier. I believe we've had enough time for its ridiculousness to sink in now, and given its absurd usage level, I don't see why we wouldn't put it to a vote. Xatu's existence isn't enough to invalidate the fact that, if you're not using Xatu, deo-d is probably going to wall half your team and get full hazards on them.
I'm totally for Deo-D being banned, and I normally think the bannings are way too rash.
Deo-D is too good to pass up to use. If you use him you are at a huge advantage if your opponent isn't, however if you are both using it, the game can often decided by who wins the taunt speed tie...it sucks.
I've been using Deoxys-D a lot, and against better opponents it's hard to beat. I need to test it more (thanks insane server lag), but I understand the argument for its brokenness and would support giving it a vote.
My God, Deo-D is unbearable right now.
This is literally how games go.
Player 1 sent out Deo-D!
Player 2 sent out Deo-D!
Player 2 used Taunt!
Player 1 sends out (insert something that threatens Deo-D here for this example I'll use CB Heracross) CB Heracross
Player 2 uses Spikes!
Now from here, two things can happen, either Heracross uses Mega Horn and hits a switch in for like 10 damage and the player who won the taunt battle gains offensive momentum and spikes to his opponent's nothing or the Heracross attempts to predict and nail the switch in for an OHKO.
Problem? People have literally decided that they can just stay in and in that case, you hit Deo-D for 20-30 damage and have to switch again, meanwhile the 2 wasted turns let him get full spikes up and possibly rocks on that...from there it's essentially GG. Therefore it's almost always correct to simply Megahorn and put yourself in a guaranteed negative position then take a risk and try to gain offensive momentum.
Man....what an ugly, ugly gamestate Deo-D causes. Literally speed ties determining games from the onset.
This is literally how games go.
Player 1 sent out Deo-D!
Player 2 sent out Deo-D!
Player 2 used Taunt!
Player 1 sends out (insert something that threatens Deo-D here for this example I'll use CB Heracross) CB Heracross
Player 2 uses Spikes!
Now from here, two things can happen, either Heracross uses Mega Horn and hits a switch in for like 10 damage and the player who won the taunt battle gains offensive momentum and spikes to his opponent's nothing or the Heracross attempts to predict and nail the switch in for an OHKO.
Problem? People have literally decided that they can just stay in and in that case, you hit Deo-D for 20-30 damage and have to switch again, meanwhile the 2 wasted turns let him get full spikes up and possibly rocks on that...from there it's essentially GG. Therefore it's almost always correct to simply Megahorn and put yourself in a guaranteed negative position then take a risk and try to gain offensive momentum.
Man....what an ugly, ugly gamestate Deo-D causes. Literally speed ties determining games from the onset.
"hits a switch in"
....
....
I love Deoxys-D vs Deoxys-D lead matchups.
Turn 1:
Deoxys-D used Magic Coat!
Deoxys-D is surrounded by a Magic Coat
The opponent's Deoxys-D used Magic Coat!
The opponent's Deoxys-D is surrounded by a Magic Coat
(x24)
Turn 25:
Deoxys-D used Taunt!
The opponent's Deoxys-D cannot use Taunt after the Taunt!
Best feeling ever.
Turn 1:
Deoxys-D used Magic Coat!
Deoxys-D is surrounded by a Magic Coat
The opponent's Deoxys-D used Magic Coat!
The opponent's Deoxys-D is surrounded by a Magic Coat
(x24)
Turn 25:
Deoxys-D used Taunt!
The opponent's Deoxys-D cannot use Taunt after the Taunt!
Best feeling ever.
I would support a vote on Deoxys-D as well. It's hindering team diversity to a significant extent, since many people aren't even bothering to seek out other options for entry hazards. It's just too damn good for the tier.
fast leads with taunt completely ruin it though?? also yeah xatu, foresight top
Yeah, taunt outright stops Deoxys. The biggest problem lies within switching something in without getting taunted, but if you are lucky it will just be Spikes or maybe a status move.
But a number of things outspeed and can taunt him, not limited to Crobat, Sabeleye/Whimsi, etc.
it's not just leading deo-d that's an issue. the problem lies with deo-d's immense bulk and good speed allowing it to switch into countless mons, offensive and support mons alike, and set up sr + spikes with exceptional ease. in order combat this in a tier where the blockers outshine the spinners, you almost need to run a ho team with every mon able to 2hko deo or run xatu. obviously this isn't ideal and just totally ruins the meta.
Yeah no.
People aren't going to be stupid about it. Most people with Deo-D play something that doesn't care about Megahorn.
Rhypherior for example, takes like 12 percent from him for an awesome 9 hit KO or whatever it is, then forces him out.
It's really not that. It's that, yes of course if you have a faster taunter it stops THAT aspect of Deo, but then you still have to deal with one of the best walls in the tier, and then once you switch out, if you switch into Taunt, he's still stacking on you, just not turn 1.
Top loses to Deo unless it's Magic Bounce Deo with no attacks.
last time i checked standard top carried toxic
but yes i agree, deo-d is way too good at what it does
but yes i agree, deo-d is way too good at what it does
I don't know about you but 90 speed is pretty fast in UU, about all that can taunt him and regularly run Taunt amounts to only Crobat, Cobalion, Azelf, Froslass, Murkrow, Sableye, Aerodactyl, Mismagius. This also ignores the fact it sometimes could simply Magic Coat you and of the Taunters only Sableye and Mismagius are actually scaring it offensively.
I run Mental Herb Deo-D to screw faster Taunters.
Also, Specs Yanmega is awesome. 317 Speed outspeeds more than you'd expect, and Bug Buzz alone 2HKOs the entire tier with 2 exceptions-Registeel and Cobalion. It's also one of the best Deoxys counters in the tier since only those 2 can switch in safely, and Cobalion is killed by Air Slash anyway. Needs Rapid Spin support, but anyone not carrying a spinner in the current metagame is not a good player.
Also, Specs Yanmega is awesome. 317 Speed outspeeds more than you'd expect, and Bug Buzz alone 2HKOs the entire tier with 2 exceptions-Registeel and Cobalion. It's also one of the best Deoxys counters in the tier since only those 2 can switch in safely, and Cobalion is killed by Air Slash anyway. Needs Rapid Spin support, but anyone not carrying a spinner in the current metagame is not a good player.
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