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np: UU Suspect Test Round 1 - Sunny Days
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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Are you high? Venusaur isn't UU, you twit. Sawsbuck, Tangrowth, Exeggutor, Jumpluff, and Victreebel are the only (to my knowledge) Chlorophyll using Pokemon in UU at the moment. If you're going to bitch about Smogon, at least bitch about something that you aren't making up.
Oh, and as for Staraptor, I feel that it's broken. With a Scarf and Reckless, it's hitting just as hard as it would if it had a Life Orb with Brave Bird and Double-Edge. 100 base Speed is also pretty damn fast for UU. I'd like to see it tested next suspect period.
Smogon UU does not have Venusaur.
And while what the individual above me said is a little harsh, I would definitely say that laddering on PO is a different beast to laddering on Smogon. I got to the top 50 in UU with a new account from 30 minutes of laddering yesterday...
But all that doesn't matter. What matters is that your arguments against Staraptor are not up to par. Staraptor is actually quite fast in UU, and its defenses, combined with its immunity to Earthquake and neutrality to Mach Punch, are good enough that it does its job just fine.
Ok, replace venasaur with any one of those that you mentioned. It hardly makes a difference. Just sleep powder + growth and gg.
The point I was trying to make is that Smogon's UU is hardly worth playing right now because of vulpix. Lol, I didn't realize the intense hatred for PO on this site.
Sorry about that. I was trying to name them off the top of my head, and I forgot about Shiftry cause I've never used it.
But yeah, Shiftry too is on that list. I don't think Venusaur is even close to UU. But, um, speaking of stat rankings, it looks like Tornadus might be dropping down. With Prankster Rain Dance + STAB Hurricane, along with Kingdra, I could see a resurfacing of Rain Dance in UU.
Victreebel is too frail for using Sleep Powder, Sawsbuck doesn't get it, Jumpluff can't attack for dick, Shiftry doesn't get it either. The only two viable offensive Chlorophyll Sleep Powder users are Exeggutor and Tangrowth, both of which need 252 EVs and +Spe nature just to fucking out-speed anything with a Scarf, meaning you can't invest in bulk, meaning they're getting their shit slapped that much faster.
And yeah, it must be shocking, coming onto Smogon, calling its tier a clusterfuck (I'm paraphrasing), citing PO as your experience, and then getting called out on it. Really shocking, that is.
first of all, thats pretty rude. remember youre arguing over an arbitrary digital boundary...
its pretty important. its why kyurem is such a bitch to take down. victinis solid 100/100/100 defenses are pretty damn good for something that hits like a truck. not to mention defensive tanks like slowbro, milotic, suicune, chansey, and many others.
I was #1 on the smogon uu ladder when testing ended. I think Staraptor is broken because its best set, which I believe is scarf, 2hkos everything into oblivion. It 2hkos 252/252+ donphan with brave bird after stealth rock damage. I will vote it bl.
and im pretty sure ladder ranking doesnt matter regardless of server
and im pretty sure ladder ranking doesnt matter regardless of server
I'd like to see you name something that can outspeed starptor and take a hit from it since its "not fast"...If you look back read back a page or so..Alexwolf was trying to find a counter for it but we couldnt...
85 HP and 70 Defense isnt the best but hey he's not a 1 hit wonder like some other sweepers..it's special defense isnt something to write home about i'll agree..
Right now in UU the highest used mach punch user is hitmontop..and its easy to tell if its technitop or not..(intimidate or revenge killing you)
V-create is of course what we all are staring at, but victini's main assest is it's wide movepool..Victini has something to get past all those bulky waters that darmitian does not, and that's fusionbolt/wild charge....Those two moves make bukly waters think twice about switching into Victini unlike Darmitian who only has superpower/EQ which will fail to 2HKO most bulky waters..
I think people are bashing you because you come in saying "I play UU on PO so it's the same metagame as the one on smogon", no they are different in many ways..and yes I play on both and I have to make seperate teams for both of them because of the different styles, different pokes that can be used...(IE: in PO toxicroak and Virizion aren't OU)
And also I would like to hear from you about the Sleep powder + growth? name some movesets and pokes that could sweep from being limited to now two moves without certain flaws as we mentioned..bulk and speed
Hmm. Well aside from ice shard users, who can easily counter staraptor, there are a few walls that are not 2HKOd by a none-CB staraptor, so it is countered in that sense. As for CB staraptor, I think it is an amazing stallbreaking set but is killed by anything that has higher than base 100 speed, no?
I haven't played with fusion bolt victini (which may change things... currently thinking of how to counter a mixedtini), but wild charge can barely touch my alomomola (not a 2HKO). The lack of STAB prevents it from killing a number of bulky waters; most would not even have to worry about wild bolt/fusion bolt since most victini are choiced. Come in on the V-Create and tank it and then victini will have to switch out.
Chlorophyll Grass sweepers are limited because their movepool is such crap (thinks of Lilligant), but it doesn't prevent them from wrecking. After a growth, only neutral coverage is needed for sweeping, leaving maybe a couple pokemon resisted both attacks.
V-Create in Sun Vs a Water: 202.5 BP
Fusion Bolt Vs a Water: 200 BP
V-Create actual is stronger than Fusion Bolt in most cases under the sun. The only cases where FBolt is stronger are lolPelipper, Flash Fire Houndoom and Arcanine, Kabutops, Armaldo and Crustle. Unless you're facing one of those mons, you would generally be using V-create I feel.
Fusion Bolt Vs a Water: 200 BP
V-Create actual is stronger than Fusion Bolt in most cases under the sun. The only cases where FBolt is stronger are lolPelipper, Flash Fire Houndoom and Arcanine, Kabutops, Armaldo and Crustle. Unless you're facing one of those mons, you would generally be using V-create I feel.
Ok, much as I hate posting in the Megathreads, this just forces me to do so...
None of the Ice Shard users in UU right now can counter Staraptor. Mamo, Abomasnow, and Weavile, the main ones, are OHKO'd by BB or Close Combat. Donphan can't OHKO with Ice Shard and is 2HKO'd by BB, so not a counter.
And just cause something with more than 100 base speed can outspeed it doesn't make it a counter, since basically nothing in UU with over 100 base speed is capable of switching into CBRaptor...
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None of the Ice Shard users in UU right now can counter Staraptor. Mamo, Abomasnow, and Weavile, the main ones, are OHKO'd by BB or Close Combat. Donphan can't OHKO with Ice Shard and is 2HKO'd by BB, so not a counter.
And just cause something with more than 100 base speed can outspeed it doesn't make it a counter, since basically nothing in UU with over 100 base speed is capable of switching into CBRaptor...
Does not being able to switch into a pokemon really qualify it as OP?
I mean, I'm not going to debate technicalities, but it's just never been a problem for my UU teams. I might have to sacrifice a pokemon, but I guess the reason why I can beat off most Staraptor's is because I abuse alomomola's regenerator.
What I usually do is tank a brave bird with Alomomola, if I am not 2HKO'd I can toxic or soak, but if I see that I am, then I switch into my scarfed rotom which can survive a Scarf-Raptor's brave bird without any bulk investment. Would not any scarfed electric pokemon be able to switch into brave bird?
v guy below me summarizes what I initially said. yay.
I mean, I'm not going to debate technicalities, but it's just never been a problem for my UU teams. I might have to sacrifice a pokemon, but I guess the reason why I can beat off most Staraptor's is because I abuse alomomola's regenerator.
What I usually do is tank a brave bird with Alomomola, if I am not 2HKO'd I can toxic or soak, but if I see that I am, then I switch into my scarfed rotom which can survive a Scarf-Raptor's brave bird without any bulk investment. Would not any scarfed electric pokemon be able to switch into brave bird?
v guy below me summarizes what I initially said. yay.
I voted Staraptor UU. Sure it looks great on paper, but it's the definition of a glass cannon. It's SR weak and its best moves take massive amounts of HP from it. This means it's almost impossible to switch in, even more so since you have to give up Intimidate. Every hit point it has is precious and it only has one real move to switch in on. At best, you're getting 3 attacks off with Staraptor over the course of a match and if you predict wrong once you pretty much just lost your 'raptor. If it was Fighting/Flying it would probably be banworthy IMO, but it just gives up too much momentum for one strong attack.
but then your scarf rotom is 2HKOed because you said that staraptor is scarfed as well..also any OTHER(meaning not counting rotom) scarf electric type is KOed by double edge or Close combat
Alomomola's dream world hasnt came out yet...
Does not having any counters really qualify? I would say yes to this but only in staraptors for UU...reason said is that it is too easy for Staraptor to come in and fire off BB or Double edge..prediction wise you know what its gonna do, but the question is how are you gonna stop it from taking out a poke or two
this whole thing was your experience from PO server which AGAIN IS DIFFERENT from smogon..please do play on smogon first before you make claims about how a pokemon is played in smogon lol
Implying its not so great in practice, which is wrong.
You're over-exaggerating how difficult it is to get Staraptor into play. Switching into something is difficult yes, but that can be alleviated by U-turn scouting, spinners, ect. But even without that, the CB set can come in after a kill and still outspeed most of UU. And once it does, something is going to die. What outspeeds him is OHKO'd, what avoids the OHKO is 2hko'd and outspeed. CC and Double Edge takes care of what little falls outside those two categories.
Its not that hard to snuff out two of your opponents Pokemon with just three attacks quite frankly.
Predict wrongly on the switch-in or on the attack ? The former goes without saying and can be said of anything, the latter is a bit laughable since you can reliably tear holes in your opponents team with just BB spam.
Wrong. Ice Shard checks Raptor as zero users of Ice Shard can switch in with any sort of safety. As most Raptors are run alongside spikes users, wht do you do when you bring in your Mamo, take 25 and Raptor switches out? And later when Raptor comes in again what is Mamo doing? Raptor at this point has removed 2 of your team (even with rocks) and cut your Mamo's HP in half just by its presence irrespective of your other team members (only qualification Ive mentioned is the presence of a Spikes user).
And Mamo is the best Ice Shard user in the first place. Weavile and Abomasnow are even worse options as Weavile die to anything and can't kill that much and if Aboma runs Ice Shard it is running a generally inferior set that will usually be a detriment to your team.
EDIT: Eh, this is why you read every page in a thread I guess. ^Repeat of first post on page.
Actually both Armaldo and Crustle are neutral to fire (which makes them both be hit the same no matter the attack), i think you meant Carracosta and Omastar (and lol corsola), which 4x ressist fire attacks, and even then they are all vulnerable to Fusion Bolt/Grass Knot, or U-turn (bar Arcanine)
Not doing them right.
252 HP/252 DEF Impish Rhyperior takes 38.25%-45.16% from a Close Combat
252 HP/252 DEF Impish Rhydon with Eviolite takes 38.16%-44.93% from Close Combat
Calcs based off a Jolly nature as this is what the CB set should have.
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