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np: UU Suspect Test Round 2 - Cold As Ice

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Gotta say, been using SmashPass for a while while generally tweaking the sweepers bit by bit. Smeargle is one of the most dangerous bastards with Shell Smash, just because it's faster with +2 than Gorebyss, meaning it can outspeed a few more Scarfers and Spore them, which leads to an easy Substitute, which leads to an easy Baton Pass.

P.S: Fuck Chansey.
 
Gerard said:
Staraptor is broken, yeah, you HAVE to sacrifice something just to have the option of taking him out, no the normal suicide set is just stupidly hard, but easy to revenge (really easy if you get him trapped in a immunity and he has to deal with rocks + hail), but the SubRoost set hits estupidly hard and has reliable recovery, the few thing that can actually wall him are zapdos and rotom, and both will take some damage (thanks SR) before forcing him out, just stupid
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You know, just for shits and giggles, I decided to do calcs on SubRoost Staraptor.

Staraptor @ Life Orb
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk | 4 Def | 252 Spe

vs.

Rotom @ Leftovers
Nature: Bold
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP | 252 Def | 4 SpA

Brave Bird: 40.5% - 47.4%. That has got to be the largest fuck you I can think of. With only Rest being Rotom's recovery (you could try SubSplit, but if Staraptor gets a Sub up, you're pretty fucked), that a 3HKO. Even if you're just firing off Brave Birds, the average amount of damage you're doing is 43%/44%, so with Stealth Rock down you're doing over 90% damage. Max/Max Rotom has to be in peak form if it even wants a chance at beating SubRoost Staraptor. And as for Physically Defensive Zapdos...

51.7% - 61.1%. With Rocks, guaranteed 2HKO. That's with Double-Edge. Someone remind me why Staraptor wasn't banned, because I think I forgot.
 
Told you it was the most dangerous set (and yeah, i knew that staraptor was riduculous for something) the worst part, only stuff like heavily invested riperior with rock blast can OHKO with sub (since most icicle spear users are, well, ice themselves and OHKO by CC), the only chance you have is predict correctly the turn he'll have to roost thanks to his suicide attacks or revenging his sub and then killing raptor
 
Gerard said:
Told you it was the most dangerous set (and yeah, i knew that staraptor was riduculous for something) the worst part, only stuff like heavily invested riperior with rock blast can OHKO with sub (since most icicle spear users are, well, ice themselves and OHKO by CC), the only chance you have is predict correctly the turn he'll have to roost thanks to his suicide attacks or revenging his sub and then killing raptor
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Actually, that set that I used as an example doesn't carry Close Combat. Substitute | Roost | Brave Bird | Double-Edge. That's the move-set, meaning you need something to take care of Steel-types (Magneton) and Rock-types (majority have shit SpD, so probably something like Suicune).

Edit: Holy shit, never mind, doesn't even matter regarding Zapdos. Brave Bird does 30.5% - 36%, meaning that, on average (with Rocks), you're doing just over 90%. Is it just me, or does all of Staraptors "counters" have to be at complete 100% to even beat it? Jesus...

So, yeah, run that Close Combat. Double-Edge is still good if you deal with Rock and Steel-types earlier though.
 
You could go DE + CC if you have a good pursuiter (like Banded Ninja)
But yeah, you already rape the entire UU
 
emergency ban either smashpassing or the move batonpass in general.

shits more broken than kyogre in ou
 
Juice! said:
Staraptor was already BL in Gen IV, and that was before Reckless. How it's still UU now is beyond me.
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How does a pokemon does in one Gen has nothing to do on how it will do next, many BL pokes now are UU (or even RU), and Uber Mew and Deoxys-D are UU (but yeah, raptor has to go)
 
to everyone nominating smahspass:
i am not questioning whether or not it is a broken strategy,'cause i have no experience with it,but(just saying)if it was,wouldn't the smashpass users be very popular?
but this is not the case as all of its users are not even in uu...so what's the point???
 
Gerard said:
How does a pokemon does in one Gen has nothing to do on how it will do next, many BL pokes now are UU (or even RU), and Uber Mew and Deoxys-D are UU (but yeah, raptor has to go)
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Stop parroting that stupid phrase everywhere. He's obviously not using it as a sole argumentative basis for why Staraptor deserves to be BL, he's just making a power level analogy as to how broken Staraptor truly is in the lower tiers. I've actually heard a lot of comments in discussions along the lines of "Staraptor is BL? Again?"
 
The only thing that stands out as pretty broken is Tickle Wobb + Dugtrio. Sure you can avoid it from happening but its still far too easy to kill something like Chansey for absolutely no effort.

However, Staraptor is also quite scary and I don't like switching things into him. :/ Fortunately, Zapdos is my favorite toy right now in UU and he makes a decent check while also being quite useful in other fields, such as checking dangerous guys like Heracross and Togekiss while also being a threat to Suicune and Empoleon, especially defensive variants.

Really though, I think once the dust settles, Kingdra will reign supreme for a while. It isn't ridiculous until it gets that DD in, but that's not very hard with nice resistances and fearsome STAB Outrage.
 
I still say Chansey should've been gone, what I've found is with Drought & Kyurem gone its actually buffed stall even more as there are even less things to threaten her now. Throw in that some defensive partners such as Celebi, Mew and Milotic make her an absolute nightmare to take out.

Wobbuffet also needs to gtfo out of UU. I'm flabbergasted not enough people are using him because every match I've had or watched, Wobbuffet + Dugtrio/Staraptor guarantees at least 1-2 KO's every time in the right hands. Fact alone that Chansey is a nightmare to deal with all they need to do then is just have Wobb pick off whatever attempts to kill Chansey, not to mention Chansey + Wobb make a great defensive core.

I'm having to make teams with the sole purpose of picking off Chansey and isolating it from its defensive partners and this is just retarded because it takes at least 2-3 to do this. Sure I can take advantage of the fact she doesn't do much to pull off my own setups like laying my own hazards etc.

But I should like to think my opponent is able to have their own ways of dealing with them too and it still doesn't address the problem shes still alive and still able to support.

Durant is just extremely underrated in general, and I'm sad to see so few people using it.
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I think its for good reason, fact alone is that it can almost be threatened with a 1HKO by a Luvdisc of all things and that at the very best it only ever has 80% chance of connecting with its attacks. Its can be somewhat unreliable.

I'm also running CB Rhyperior, which has exceeded my expectations by a pretty large amount (protip: Pair with CB Escavalier for lulz). Use with Rock Blast for sub-breaking fun.
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I do like Rhyperior though I have abit of trouble fitting it into teams, not too convinced on CBperior though. Personally I'm a bigger fan of Subperior.
 
Bah, for some reason I'm on an awful run of form right now. I think I just need to start making new teams cause I'm getting a bit frustrated. Not seen that many Hail teams, but then again I've not played many high ranked players in this round.

Sub CM Raikou is a complete monster once you eliminate your opponent's fat pink blob (or pair it with Toxic Spikes so you can even beat that)
 
Honestly the only thing I've really found that stops Chansey+Wobb is a Taunt+SD Cobalion...and he gets screwed by Scarf Staraptor after a defense drop from CC.
 
SJCrew said:
Stop parroting that stupid phrase everywhere. He's obviously not using it as a sole argumentative basis for why Staraptor deserves to be BL, he's just making a power level analogy as to how broken Staraptor truly is in the lower tiers. I've actually heard a lot of comments in discussions along the lines of "Staraptor is BL? Again?"
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I might have misunderstood the point, but that argument remains for some current suspects, Wobbuffet was suspect because people has an idea that he is broken, just because it can counter a lot of the Choiced pokemons, he is good, but really, he NEEDS prediction, just like virtually anything good can sweep with prediction, anything that 2HKOs wobb is in a great place, and even 3HKOes, since many pokes run one mixed attack for not being completely walled, he also doesn't have reliable recovery so at max he is likely to take down one poke unless you let him, and with many good set up sweepers he has to predict were to use Encore or when to use MC/Counter to avoid being OHKOed, he was Uber ast gen so he must be Broken in UU this one, that to me seems like people is overestimating tiering, i'm fully aware that many pokes got a great boost (just look at Chansey), and if you've read my post you'll see that i fully support raptor being banned since he has really monstrous sets that can tear teams appart (and the things that counter SubRoost don't get near close to countering CB)
 
Forsety said:
I do like Rhyperior though I have abit of trouble fitting it into teams, not too convinced on CBperior though. Personally I'm a bigger fan of Subperior.
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Agreed! subperior for some reason has been AMAZING for me (lol now just need to find the right team combination for him)...It really makes staraptor think twice about spamming Brave bird..and close combat leaves it set up bait for other pokes like Mismagius

Mr_br_kill said:
^feeling the same way. Anyways has anyone elese been using Jolteon? It's been awesome for me
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I agree, but ppl are fraying away from special attackers thanks to chansey lol but LO jolteon can sweep a chanseyless team with ease..it's so easy a caveman can do it

EonX- said:
Honestly the only thing I've really found that stops Chansey+Wobb is a Taunt+SD Cobalion...and he gets screwed by Scarf Staraptor after a defense drop from CC.
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and taunt mismagius and stall Mew...after watching so many battles from flareblitz and utilizing stall mew myself..ppl have been beyond annoyed and frustrated it made me a huge believer
 
Forsety said:
I think its for good reason, fact alone is that it can almost be threatened with a 1HKO by a Luvdisc of all things and that at the very best it only ever has 80% chance of connecting with its attacks. Its can be somewhat unreliable.
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Blaziken is outsped and OHKOed by luvdisc in the rain, so obviously it should be RU. Oh wait...

Simisear outspeeds and OHKOS Ferrothorn, so Ferrothorn sucks. Alakazam gets OHKOed by Farfetch'd, so it sucks too. Unfortunately dude, it just doesn't work like that.

Regardless, Durant is great. Honestly, the only reason noone uses it is because he doesn't get EQ. Like, look at this:

+1 X-scissor Durant vs. 4/0 Victini: 98.2% - 100% So you can't switch him in.

+0 Iron Head Durant vs. 252/4 Hitmontop: 77% - 90% clean 2HKO, and only has to fear CC. Still 2HKOs 252/252+ variants, and they fail to 2HKO back.

Kyurem - Banned so whatever.

+0 Stone Edge Durant vs. 4/0 Arcanine: 100% Although this shouldn't really be considered.

+0 X-scissor Durant vs. 252/0 Donphan: 50.3% - 59.4% A clean 2HKO, while he can't kill since Durant outspeeds.

+1 X-scissor Durant vs. 4/252 Chansey: 75% - 89% I find this funny, but I think Chansey should be banned anyway so whatever D:

+0 Iron Head Durant vs. 4/0 Heracross: 94.4% - 100% while Heracross can't OHKO back unless it's guts boosted.

Zapdos: Walls it, but he's the only exception.

+0 Iron Head Durant vs. Nidoking: 92.1 - 100% This wouldn't go well if nido is scarfed, but otherwise he's destroyed if he switches into a hone claws.

Vulpix: Probably won't face anymore since drought's gone, but +0 iron head does 99-100.

you do realize that he destroys about 70% of the top ten, right? How does he suck in any way?

Well anyway, back on topic. Chansey should be banned simply because it can do too much too easily. I mean unless you have like a steelix you can't avoid status, so it screws you over like that, and just when you've whittled it down with repeated physical moves on this special wall, it softboils and you've gotta do it all over again.

I've only faced SmashPassing once, and the guy rage quit after I wild-charged his gorebyss to death with my arcanine, so I couldn't possibly have an opinion on it.

Staraptor has to go too. I like him and all, but SubRoost is pretty damn cheap. I mean I've been using it and so far I haven't lost yet, which sure as hell didn't happen before I slapped him on. (then again this is on PO so I don't know if it's very credible information :/).
 
I find Haze Miltoic to be an excellent counter to Smash Pass. As soon as Gorebyss comes in, Milotic can switch in and Haze straight away. Gorebyss can't really do much except for the rare HP Electric (I have seen on which threw me off a bit, but Milotic is such a beast that it can take it).

Obviously this doesn't suggest it's not broken as we can't expect everyone to run a Haze Milotic, but it's very reliable and it beats Sub Gorebyss unlike Dragon Tail.

Also, Zapdos doesn't counter Durant. A +1 Stone Edge KOs even the most defensive Zapdos with SR and has a good chance of 1HKOing 100% health Zapdos.
 
TLK said:
I find Haze Miltoic to be an excellent counter to Smash Pass. As soon as Gorebyss comes in, Milotic can switch in and Haze straight away. Gorebyss can't really do much except for the rare HP Electric (I have seen on which threw me off a bit, but Milotic is such a beast that it can take it).

Obviously this doesn't suggest it's not broken as we can't expect everyone to run a Haze Milotic, but it's very reliable and it beats Sub Gorebyss unlike Dragon Tail.

Also, Zapdos doesn't counter Durant. A +1 Stone Edge KOs even the most defensive Zapdos with SR and has a good chance of 1HKOing 100% health Zapdos.
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Yay, more love for Durant :D

I didn't want to consider stone edge though, since you can pretty much only use it at +1, and heat wave is a kill and a half :/ (well since it breaks the 200% mark, I guess it's two kills >.<).

Haze Milotic sounds cool though. I've always wanted to try using an entry hazards abuser but I couldn't think of a good one in UU, so yay :D

Seriously though, is SmashPass really that bad? I mean if you run Phaze, haze, taunt, an elec move, t-wave, will-o-wisp (for physical sweepers), a grass move, somebody faster than 75 speed (better yet mach punch), hail, wobbuffet, or trick, then can it really do much to you? It doesn't sound like these things are particularily out of the way in terms of team building.
 
To avoid complex bans, I'd like whoever is capable of doing so to change the current suspect of Shell Smash+Baton Pass to individual suspects of Smeargle, Gorebyss, and Huntail.

I honestly thought that Smogon had enough uniformity to avoid silly bans like Shell Smash+Baton Pass.
 
Downf4ll said:
Yay, more love for Durant :D

I didn't want to consider stone edge though, since you can pretty much only use it at +1, and heat wave is a kill and a half :/ (well since it breaks the 200% mark, I guess it's two kills >.<).
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Haha, sometimes when I feel ballsy I just go straight for Stone Edge if I see an Arcanine or Zapdos on the team. Sometimes it hits, most of the time it doesn't but when it hits its always a great result.

Durant is one of the best sweepers in UU, no doubt. If you don't have a good steel type like Cobalion, Empoleon or Registeel, you are generally gonna have something die.
 
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