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np: UU Suspect Test Round 2 - Cold As Ice

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SJCrew said:
I just started laddering for reqs today and I'm having a ton of fun with some classing Gen 4 sets. Flare was definitely on the money a while ago when he said Roserade was basically a better Moltres. Imagine how hard Venusaur dominated Gen 4 UU and multiply that by "holy shit."
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I'm glad someone remembered that ^__^ I was really expecting a lot more from many of the Pokemon that are now languishing in low UU/RU, but it's rather telling that they are almost all special attackers. Hopefully, if Chansey gets banned, they will be allowed to shine again.

Speaking of which, try the Agility/NP set I posted in the creative movesets thread too, if you're into hard hitting special attackers.

Edit:

Eternal said:
Though the big problem with Chansey is that too many things can easily set up on it. It's not that great.
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There are actually very few offensive Pokemon that do not fear Thunder Wave or Toxic and are capable of setting up on Chansey. This wasn't such a big deal back when Chansey was immediately threatened with a 2hko from anything physical, but now it very much is, given that even the strongest unboosted physical hits in the tier get wish-stalled...
 
After playing with smashpass and Baton pass on the PO ladder(where espeon doesnt exisst) It has been much harder to use and with way more counters and easier to handle...

I know the PO UU is not the same as Smogons..but it is still sort of the same type of game

All in all it is not as threatening without espeon..even the smogon ladder will do better to counter than PO
 
bread said:
It's getting a little wearisome to see donphan or hitmontop on almost every single team. At the same time, I find myself forced to run a rapid spinner and those are undoubtedly the best.
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You can try Blastoise he actually isn't half bad and maybe whenever Sandslash gets its DW Sand Rush ability he'll be an excellent offensive spinner too.

But this can be blamed on the game itself and Gamefreak's design choices for Gen 5, the pool of RS users is absolutely pathetic. We literally got only TWO new Rapid Spinners this gen one high OU and the other virtually unusuable due to shitty stat distribution. (Yes I consider Cryogonal's problem stat distribution not his typing).

Hopefully when the new Gen 5 game rolls round they'll be smart enough to at least spread the Rapid Spin love or at least change some other move to do the same thing. Rapid Spinners are too vital and there is literally no choice in this department.
 
Not sure what the big deal about Wobbufett and Dugtrio is. I tried that combo today with various types of teams and it's really not that great.

Things that stop Wobbufett:

Substitute
Status
Non Attacking Moves

Basically Wobbufett is only useful against choice pokemon or pokemon with 4 attacks.

Dugtrio also isn't that great. Not powerful at all and I just fail to see how the Wobbufett + Dugtrio combo is difficult outside of certain situations.

Maybe I was just using the wrong type of team with the combo, or didn't know how to use it well, but I feel that Wobbufett isn't worthy to be banned.
 
Ness said:
Not sure what the big deal about Wobbufett and Dugtrio is. I tried that combo today with various types of teams and it's really not that great.

Things that stop Wobbufett:

Substitute
Status
Non Attacking Moves

Basically Wobbufett is only useful against choice pokemon or pokemon with 4 attacks.

Dugtrio also isn't that great. Not powerful at all and I just fail to see how the Wobbufett + Dugtrio combo is difficult outside of certain situations.

Maybe I was just using the wrong type of team with the combo, or didn't know how to use it well, but I feel that Wobbufett isn't worthy to be banned.
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ever hear of encore? thats like the first move EVER wobb does unless they know its a choice set. cb dugtrio stlil hits hard enough and trapping weakened pokes always works.
 
Ness said:
Not sure what the big deal about Wobbufett and Dugtrio is. I tried that combo today with various types of teams and it's really not that great.

Things that stop Wobbufett:

Substitute
Status
Non Attacking Moves

Basically Wobbufett is only useful against choice pokemon or pokemon with 4 attacks.

Dugtrio also isn't that great. Not powerful at all and I just fail to see how the Wobbufett + Dugtrio combo is difficult outside of certain situations.

Maybe I was just using the wrong type of team with the combo, or didn't know how to use it well, but I feel that Wobbufett isn't worthy to be banned.
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Wobbuffet + Dugtrio + Raikou. Wobbuffet Tickles Chansey until it's -6. Dugtrio uses Pursuit. Raikou sweeps unimpeded.
 
Dugtrio doesn't need to Pursuit Chansey...

But yeah Wobbuffet also means auto good game to Hitmontop/Donphan aka free Stealth Rocks for rest of battle!!! Fuck off Yanmega!
 
Well i decayed from 1359 to 1286.........

Wobba is not that hard to beat in my opinion because you know it's there. I don't spam Close Combat (or even use it on a Choice attacker) until it's gone.
 
Screw hazards, i'll just stomp all over the opposition that's all
Seriously: No new spinners makes me worried. We even lost Cloyster...

And the only spinner i have some use for is offensive Blastoise (which it's a nice bait for any uncoming ghosts since Hydro Pump will 2HKO every ghost outside of Dusclops. Well, it doesn't make Blastoise totally outclassed too, i guess); i just suck with everything else.

About Wobbtrio: i faced the combo two times, once it did gave me a slight problem. The other time, Jolteon played with both (LO Volt Change to my dark typed poke.Duggie came in, HP Ice is an easy OHKO).
Oh this combo is annoying if you're not prepared.

Anyway, step off, Quagsire is da boss
 
M BLADE said:
And the only spinner i have some use for is offensive Blastoise (which it's a nice bait for any uncoming ghosts since Hydro Pump will 2HKO every ghost outside of Dusclops. Well, it doesn't make Blastoise totally outclassed too, i guess); i just suck with everything else.
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Which happens to be the best Spinblocker in the tier, altough i agree, quagsire is pretty nice and i really don't get why is not used more often (try stockpile to wall every non-grass type in the tier)
 
I hate chansey. In a battle, our last two pokes were chansey and it is not fun seismic tossing a pokemon with 700 hp and soft boil. Its also not fun when it stalled me out of heal bells and proceeded to toxic me. The sole reason mismagius entered my team.
BTW has anyone tried smeargle as a spinner? I wall the dusclops night shade and I can taunt it or get behind a sub to dodge its WOWs and I can toxic or WOW it. Only seismic toss clops give me trouble but surprisingly I see night shade more often.
 
panamaxis said:
I'd love to know how the last couple of guys who posted their suspect opinions "get around" or "prepare" for wobbufett cause I haven't seen many teams where wobbufett doesn't get a kill or do something very useful. (That probably sounded condescending but I'm just curious)
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I seriously love wobbuffet. Against stall it tears cores apart together with duggy. Against offense it usually takes down two pokes. here's the team i've been using:

Duggy / KEVIN Durant / Raikou / Espeon / SharpRaptor / Wobb

give it a try. fun guarenteed.
 
Why is everyone nominating Snow Warning? Is it too "Gen IV" to actually nominate a Pokemon anymore? Can't we nominate ABomasnow or Snover?
 
Well Abomasnow has a unlreleased DW ability, it think it's soundproof, would only be useful against bugs carrying bug buzz and other sound type moves.

If you're gonna ban a hail I reckon just ban Snow Veil, that's the main reason why people lose to hail (I'm guess), ice body is just poison heal in the hail really and Walrein can hit opponents with with Stab 100% accurate blizzard but I Don;t think all Walrein's carry Blizzard.
 
Why wouldn't you nominate Snow Warning as a opposed to nominating the individual pokemon? IMO Hail is broken in UU, and unlike gen IV there are a ton of hail abusers this time around, so banning Abomasnow alone would not solve the problem. Technically you could nominate both Pokemon, but again its the same case with banning vulpix vs drought. Abomasnow will eventually get a DW ability too.
 
Wait, what? Since when did we decide hail was broken? I'd sooner vote for sand than I would vote for hail. Everything being SR weak and ice being a shitty typing means that hail is not particularly difficult to handle at all.

I will say that froslass is a complete bitch, but maybe we need to be looking at her separately. Or just ban snow cloak under evasion clause >_>
 
Hail is not broken at all.

People said the same last generation in UU, and tried to ban Hail. Instead we just banned Absomasnow, and it got little usage when people had to use Snover for it.

Heck, Snover is in RU, and people are coping there. I'm sure UU can cope. Or at least it's worth a try.
 
Can some explain where this "Hail is broken" movement came from? It can't be coming from Froslass, can it?
 
SHUCKLE MAN said:
Hail is not broken at all.

People said the same last generation in UU, and tried to ban Hail. Instead we just banned Absomasnow, and it got little usage when people had to use Snover for it.

Heck, Snover is in RU, and people are coping there. I'm sure UU can cope. Or at least it's worth a try.
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I'm pretty sure UU has much more powerful Hail abusers than RU, so I'm not very surprised that RU can cope with Snover's being there.
 
And even so, sure, I'm open to Snover being broken. But should we at least see what it's like when Hail teams have to use Snover instead of Abomasnow first? It might end up like UU last generation, where it turns out to be fine. But if it's still broken, fine, ban Snover aswell.
 
Yeah I really don't get the hail thing. There really aren't that many hail abusers, and the ones with the strongest Blizzards suck. Jynx doesn't have a defense stat, Froslass only has 80 special attack. Cryoganal is in the same boat as Jynx. Glaceon is too slow. Mamoswine? Lol @ Base 70 SAtk. Add in the fact that everything is weak to SR. Add in the fact that Hitmontop / Gurrdurr / Hitmonchan / anythingwithbulletpunchvacuumwaveormachpunch. Then add Empoleon, who sets up all over every hail abuser except Rotom-H. And Snorlax, who can set up Curses against entire Hail teams. Also, Abomasnow sucks. It has SOOOO many exploitable weaknesses, poor speed, and it's not very powerful. I really don't see hail as broken at all this gen (or last gen for that matter). If it is going to be nominated (which it shouldn't), then we should at least be able to discuss it first.
 
Since when everyone got a little to ban-happy and though that annoying playstyles were broken, i agree hail is really powerful if played right (and it has arguably the best weather starter in UU), but look at RU vs UU the only difference is frosslass (and mamo but he is another bote) in that she can avoid attacks while setting spikes, that's the only one i think wmight be broken since 60% chance of hitting behind a sub let's you plenty of time to put 3 layers wile Top can't do anything about it and you OHKO donphan), i really don't think hail is broken nor that it deserves to even be suspect since really how many hail abusers there are, walrein is a bastard but anything faster (or with pryority) can deal with him (he owns anything slower still), nidoking is to slow, an chansey can wall hail teams all day (well my froslass can deal with her, an most of my pokes have something fo when chansey is up, but still i could never break her by pure offense), hail is powerful in uu, but IMO all of his abusers are to frail or slow to actually be broken
 
Nidoqueen shows up on almost every hail team, while Hitmontop shows up on a ton of them too. Victini is also a big asset to Hail teams in UU, though I don't know if it was common or just one I kept running into. All of these have combinations of typings and utility options that are great for hail and unavailable in RU.

So combine that with the aforementioned Froslass (and Abomasnow) and I'd say there's plenty to differentiate UU hail and RU hail teams.
 
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