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np: UU - The Boys Are Back in Town
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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I made a new team a few days ago when I was waiting for the ladder to get updated, but I wasn't expecting Froslass, Gallade and Raikou so it'll be interesting to see how well it fares against them. I can't wait to make a team abusing Gallade now.
It's nice to see them back
And it's even nicer to see that, despite those additions, RP Aggron is still damn hard to take out. Of all the pokes i've seen throughout UU, Aggron was the only one people needed to actually spend seconds to minutes thinking what to do to not get sweeped. It should be easily a top 10 UU with a good chance of becoming OU...
Alakazam is good, fast, hits hard. Easily sweeps late game.
Rhyperior is damn bulky and powerful. Never sweeps, but takes out pokes by brute force.
Umbreon with Curse and Taunt actually decimates teams without fighting attacks or Encore/Toxic. And it's one of the better support pokes.
Gallade is gonna have good time here, ditching out powerful Close Combats and spreading status all over.
Raikou is like a bulkier Alakazam without fear of Pursuit and better attacking type.
Froslass will be the number one lead. Easily.
With the exception of Umbreon and Rhyperior, Dugtrio is able to revenge pretty much everyone(Gallade is 50/50 if they use SD+Shadow Sneak). Yes, now Duggie usage will go above the skies.
Spiritomb also will be seen on nearly every team, capable of dealing with Alakazam and Gallade 100% of the time.
And it's even nicer to see that, despite those additions, RP Aggron is still damn hard to take out. Of all the pokes i've seen throughout UU, Aggron was the only one people needed to actually spend seconds to minutes thinking what to do to not get sweeped. It should be easily a top 10 UU with a good chance of becoming OU...
Alakazam is good, fast, hits hard. Easily sweeps late game.
Rhyperior is damn bulky and powerful. Never sweeps, but takes out pokes by brute force.
Umbreon with Curse and Taunt actually decimates teams without fighting attacks or Encore/Toxic. And it's one of the better support pokes.
Gallade is gonna have good time here, ditching out powerful Close Combats and spreading status all over.
Raikou is like a bulkier Alakazam without fear of Pursuit and better attacking type.
Froslass will be the number one lead. Easily.
With the exception of Umbreon and Rhyperior, Dugtrio is able to revenge pretty much everyone(Gallade is 50/50 if they use SD+Shadow Sneak). Yes, now Duggie usage will go above the skies.
Spiritomb also will be seen on nearly every team, capable of dealing with Alakazam and Gallade 100% of the time.
I'm scared of these new UU changes although, it'll be fun. Finally milotic will have huge threa in Raikou.
Calm Mind + Encore Zam has been working well. Outspeeds so many things it's crazy, Raikou isn't even a threat cause predicting the Sub is so easy and then you can just Encore it. I've been going with Psychic/Signal Beam cause i'd rather hit Spiritomb then Registeel. I'm a bit worried about Gallade though, cause the only things that can "consistently" take it on are Spiritomb and Slowbro with Thunder Wave. With Spiritomb you're gambling with a 75% chance cause all you can do is burn it, and Gallade 2HKO's after an SD with Stone Edge/Night Slash. Slowbro is also 2HKO'd by a +2 Night Slash but he can atleast Thunder Wave it before going down, or if you get lucky parahax and Gallade runs LO you can slowly wear it down. It's not a problem for offensive teams really but stall teams are completely owned by it. If it doesn't sweep it atleast opens a vital hole in the team that can be exploited. I wanna run one on one of my teams as well, but i'm tempted to make it Choiced. With it's awesome coverage it can be a great revenge killer with a Scarf, but the raw power of Band is hard to give up.
Btw, does anyone know the iv's for Hidden Power Water on Raikou? I really want to try it atm.
Btw, does anyone know the iv's for Hidden Power Water on Raikou? I really want to try it atm.
I didn't think it was that popular before this xD, but I pray to god that it dies for good in UU lol.
Thank you!
I was about to run a mantine until raikou came back
this should be interesting
this should be interesting
It took all of about 5 minutes to realize froslass is too good as a lead. Its either getting a ko(provided blizzard hits) or its setting several layers of spikes. Why run a different lead when you can run froslass?
Alakazam also has proven to be a nice lead with dual screens and encore, but it begs for spiritomb to come in and pursuit it repeatedly until it switches out.
Speaking of spiritomb, its actually proving to be a nice tank and revenge killer in the same set. Its hard to tell how common he will become.
Raikou is a terror. He has been on nearly every team I have faced (all have been hp grass version I believe). He has little trouble sweeping, even without setup thanks to all the spikes and SR that are generally on the field.
Alakazam also has proven to be a nice lead with dual screens and encore, but it begs for spiritomb to come in and pursuit it repeatedly until it switches out.
Speaking of spiritomb, its actually proving to be a nice tank and revenge killer in the same set. Its hard to tell how common he will become.
Raikou is a terror. He has been on nearly every team I have faced (all have been hp grass version I believe). He has little trouble sweeping, even without setup thanks to all the spikes and SR that are generally on the field.
Alakazam outclasses Froslass as a lead. Faster Taunt, kills U-turned pokemon and Honchkrow/absol/Dugtrio switch ins with Counter, Encores attempts to setup, and hits back with a very powerful STAB Psychic.
To Froslass, he Taunts and 2HKOs with Psychic before she can do jack. Alakazam anti-lead prevents Rocks 100% of the time (alright, maybe Scarf Mespirit) and beats every lead with prediction.
Rhyperior, on the other hand, is extremely underwhelming. Despite his high attack, he can't neutrally OHKO much of anything in the tier. RP Set is outclassed by Torterra, SD set is outclassed by Absol and several others. He has potential as a defensive tank, but Donphan has slightly worse stats without the horrid 4x weaknesses Rock/Ground have AND Rapid Spin.
Tomb is great, though. I run a trick/band priority tomb with pursuit. Never had any trouble with Alakazam.
what if froslass just uses shadow ball and ice shard o_O
After getting 6-0'd by Gallade repeatedly (very shadow sneak weak), I made a team with it. It seriously is broken, I know it needs to be tested, but without Crobat he just wrecks people.. This thread will be spammed with posts to make him BL again, and i agree..
Edit: Nice Thin Lizzy reference btw ;)
Edit: Nice Thin Lizzy reference btw ;)
ive never played Uu before and i decided to give it a try. I use a simple offensive team with DD feraligatre, SD gallade, SD absol, and RP rhyperior with DS support and it is working wonders. Gallade is really destroying teams. 3 games in a row ( different people) milotic came in mid game to wall and kill my feraligatr. I send in gallade, SD, game over.
So is anyone else noticing gallade is absurdly powerful?
EDIT: beat me by a bit Class
So is anyone else noticing gallade is absurdly powerful?
EDIT: beat me by a bit Class
I didn't want to show this set yet, but you forced me to
Froslass @ focus sash
Naive; 252 Sp Atk/ 40 Atk/ 216 Spe
Spikes/ Blizzard/ Ice shard/ Shadow ball
-This lead set I made because almost everyone assumes ambipom beats froslass when in all actuality it will lose ~70% of the time if it has life orb. I figured froslass, ambipom, and alakazam would all be top leads and I wanted to be able to beat their standard builds. I know Im relying on bluffing taunt + destiny bond which actually hasn't been hard to do at all (think back to the crobat days when crobat didn't have to use taunt to make the opponent not use SR) and its a small price to pay to beat the leads that "counter" froslass.
*Note* I kept it with a + spe nature simply to outspeed missy as a secondary check for my team though it rarely lives that long anyway. It in no way needs this much speed if you have a missy counter already; it could easily be a rash nature with more ev's in attack for ice shard and work better. I'll have to test.
How it beats ambipom-
Blizzard -> Ice shard (if ambipom has LO, and I don't see why it wouldn't, it loses as long as blizzard hits. W/ silk scarf it will be at ~4%)
Ambipom will either
A) Pursuit/ Payback and fail to ko
B) Taunt and give me an extra chance to nail them with blizzard (I dont mind to set spikes later at all if I can kill and ambipom early)
How it beats other froslass-
They are faster, I know this and they dont.
They will either
A) taunt resulting in them dying before they lay any spikes
B) Shadowball resulting in them dying before they lay any spikes
C) Lay one layer of spikes which is all they will get
How it beats alakazam-
shadowball -> ice shard
Alakazam will-
A) Psychic in hopes to ko making it lose
B) Taunt expecting ice beam making it lose
C) Light Screen making it lose (though it does get a screen T-T)
Alakazam, like ambipom believes it has the upper hand when it's actually a free kill.
(Its a ko 100% on 252 Spe/ 252 Sp Atk/ 4 Hp alakazam with the above spread, but it they begin to run more bulk, then the froslass can just run the rash nature to beat it)
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About Spiritomb-
I would rather run a bulky one to help with gallade as well. Sucker punch always ko's 4 Hp/ 252 Sp Atk/ 252 Spe alakazam with no attack evs meaning pursuit will as well if it switches. Its much easier to trap this way. At the same time I run enough spe to outrun 8 spe rhyperior and WoW + pain split for gallade and rhyperior while still maintaining a decently powerful sucker punch. Ah spiritomb...
Then it's not running the Taunt/Spikes/Ice Beam/Destiny Bond build everyone is bitching about.
Edit: BnE: You still get 0 layers of spikes. So an anti-lead set beats another anti-lead set, not the end of the world. At best it'll trade SR for Spikes with things like Uxie and Regirock. It also loses to lead Trickband Tomb.
A few things I've found from paying a few matches.
--Dual screens is really popular. Makes me wonder if I should run Brick Break on something.
--SD Pass Leafeon is fun fun fun. Pass a sub and a +2 to Gallade or RP Rhyperior and you have yourself a roaring good time. Heck, even +2 Ambipom is quite the threat, OHKOing Steelix with Low Kick.
--Dual screens is really popular. Makes me wonder if I should run Brick Break on something.
--SD Pass Leafeon is fun fun fun. Pass a sub and a +2 to Gallade or RP Rhyperior and you have yourself a roaring good time. Heck, even +2 Ambipom is quite the threat, OHKOing Steelix with Low Kick.
This was not the arguement btw. You said Alakazam outclasses froslass when it doesn't. You also claimed that it beats every lead with prediction which it doesn't. THAT was what I was proving to you.
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Now about the other stuff you brought up.
actually you do get spikes more often than not. You can lay one after you kill your opponents alakazam if they psychic or ambipom if they dont taunt OR you can just come in later and lay some while they set rocks. This means froslass has ko'd an opponents pokemon and gotten a layer or two of spikes. Yes please! (basically its still doing the same thing the taunt destiny bond froslass does, but it counters its counters)
About the tomb comment-
You cannot know the froslass' set and 99% of them aren't the one I made. Either way, Spiritomb wont hinder froslass' primary function and could very easily die to it if you assume it doesn't have DB when it does.
A) you trick and they get at least 2 layers of spikes (not running the calc because 2 is more than enough)
B) you pursuit and they spike, and since 99% of froslass carry destiny bond, more often than not, they will try to take the spiritomb with them
C) froslass taunts and you pursuit, they either DB you or lay spikes
D) froslass taunts and you trick, multiple layers of spikes and a froslass packing DB at max health
*Spiritomb is actually a worse lead against the more popular version and since you wont know what version it is until it taunts you, you may very well make a wrong move.
Also, I dont count getting multiple layers of spikes up as a loss when thats its job in the first place. I get 2 layers or more and you kill a suicide lead. Thats kind of the plan.
CB Tomb runs Shadow Sneak. That's 1 layer tops.
Turn 1:
Alakazam used Taunt!
Froslass used Shadow Ball!
Alakazam loses 100% of it's health!
Alakazam hangs on with it's Focus Sash!
Turn 2:
X sends out Spiritomb! (or anything else with priority/pursuit and isn't too badly hurt by Ice Shard)
Long story short: Froslass dies, no spikes. If Alakazam used Psychic instead, Froslass gets 1 set of spikes and less of a chance to damage another teammate. Regardless, I always keep Ala alive even at 1HP so I can switch in and encore stat uppers lacking priority.
AGAIN, NOT the argument. Stop trying to prove your point with stuff that has nothing to do with what you originally said and also has nothing to do with what you said in your last post either. You said alakazam AS A LEAD or spritomb AS A LEAD prevent spikes/ beats froslass, and neither do alone which WAS your argument. If the person runs ala and spiritomb on the same team then they can kill my froslass with no spikes up, but the SR I get to set up for free thanks to your CB pursuit/ shadow sneak forces alakazam back into the match for the final time meaning it wont be able to encore any stat up sweepers I may have.
I made a Floatzel lead with Taunt/Aqua Jet/Waterfall/Crunch a little before the update, but it has actually been doing pretty well against froslass leads. outspeeds with taunt, crunch + aqua jet beats focus sashers, you need a little prediction though, due to destiny bond and spikes needing to be taunted and shadowball having a shot to OHKO (I think, not 100%). Worst case he gets 1 layer of spikes, best case he dies and you only take LO recoil + 30ish% from ice beam
If you taunt, they switch and come in later... it can force them out, but wont really stop the spikes from getting set in the long run.
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