That is quite the good check to both Venusaur and Rhyperior, 2 big Raikou counters.
Just a question: Has anyone tried Sandstall in this metagame?
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np: UU - The Boys Are Back in Town
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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Just a question: Has anyone tried Sandstall in this metagame?
Agreed, on what you said about this metagame's diversity. So many viable threats in this metagame keep battles fresh and make team-building difficult.
As for Froslass always suiciding, I noticed this as well and actually played Froslass this way when I used her as a lead. In hindsight, it doesn't seem like a mistake to always let Froslass die. Because of her frail defenses and SR weakness, she can't switch in to attacks and setup like other bulky Spikers. Her Normal immunity is almost useless as she won't switch in on Ambipom, and all the other usable Normal attackers have Scrappy. Her fighting immunity is the only viable opportunity for a switch-in.
The last option for bringing in Froslass midgame is after one of your pokes dies, but then you're giving up momentum just to set another layer of Spikes and most likely be OHKOed that turn. If you forego Spikes to Dbond, any other revenge killer would've been a better choice to switch-in rather than Froslass.
Unless you're using a Hail set, Froslass only seems to work as a suicide lead.
About Sceptile, on a new team I've been trying him as a late game sweeper, and he is working out pretty well. His only real obstacle is Venusaur, but if that can be removed there aren't many Pokemon in UU that can reasonably take him on, especially in the later game. Besides the extra speed, the main reason to use him over Leafeon and Venusaur is that awesome Rock Slide/Earthquake coverage which takes out almost everything that counters the other two (Registeel, Moltres, Altaria). It requires a bit of support if you're looking for a full-on sweep (and it lacks the raw firepower of Gallade), but if you can get it going it can be really hard to stop with that 120 Base Speed and great type coverage.
About Honchkrow, I agree that it is really powerful. If it weren't for Rhyperior it would be seriously, seriously broken. However, should Honchkrow run Jolly or Adamant? I love how Jolly outspeeds neutral nature Base 80 Pokemon (in other words, Gallade and Venusaur - two Pokemon that it's great to have a faster Brave Bird against). However, it seems that whenever I run Jolly, it falls just short of so many KOs, like Lucario in OU. Jolly is probably better overall though.
About Honchkrow, I agree that it is really powerful. If it weren't for Rhyperior it would be seriously, seriously broken. However, should Honchkrow run Jolly or Adamant? I love how Jolly outspeeds neutral nature Base 80 Pokemon (in other words, Gallade and Venusaur - two Pokemon that it's great to have a faster Brave Bird against). However, it seems that whenever I run Jolly, it falls just short of so many KOs, like Lucario in OU. Jolly is probably better overall though.
I used a similar set "last" metagame. It was really effective there, but not so much now. TBH, I think you are better off... Adamant 252Hp 252Atk with Taunt.
Adamant, everyone is going +Speed. Give him enough Speed ev's to wall common walls and give him Hp Ev's. At least, that is how I do it.
That is true to some extent, however, I find with Honchkrow these days that it isn't too debilitating to give up a slot for HP Grass. Brave Bird and Superpower are pretty much the only 'power' attacks it needs, so after slotting in Sucker Punch for the strong priority, Honchkrow basically has a 'bonus' slot for whatever you think fits best. Even with only 250 Special Attack, HP Grass does over 80% to most Rhyperior, an easy KO after absorbing Brave Bird. It is also helpful for OHKOing Omastar where Superpower may not and you don't have to lose your Attack power. Sure, Roost would be helpful sometimes, but not as often as HP Grass IMO. I often don't care if Honchkrow faints early so long as it has punched a couple of holes into the opponent's team along the way, which it almost always does.
This is really interesting Lemmiwinks... I need to try this out when I decide to play UU ladder again. Its true that Honchkrow's final slot depends on what the team needs to fill in, and most Rhyperior will be casual when staying in on Honchkrow, giving Honckrow a free kill with Hidden Power Grass. With a bunch of teams using Rhyperior to check Swellow, Swellow can work well to sweep lategame. However, 2 Flying-types won't be good, but its worth a shot.
Before the last changes, I used a very effective UU team with Moltres, Swellow, and Honchkrow, to resounding success (#17 peak, my best is #15, but this one had a higher rating - 1580 peak).
I had Roserade, Regirock, and Blastoise as well.
It would be harder today, but I'm sure a Flying-type team would still be effective.
Which brings me to a question: What do you guys think is the best all-round type in UU?
My answer is obvious: Flying.
I had Roserade, Regirock, and Blastoise as well.
It would be harder today, but I'm sure a Flying-type team would still be effective.
Which brings me to a question: What do you guys think is the best all-round type in UU?
My answer is obvious: Flying.
Saving Froslass for midgame in hopes that your opponent has the rare CB Hitmonlee doesn't make sense. Just suicide Froslass.
I think with Raikou now fliers have a lot more to worry about.
Water.
One Pokemon that I've had some fun with is TrickScarf Gallade. Even without Swords Dance and a boosting item, it still packs a fair amount of power with 349 (or 383 if you run Adamant, but I prefer Jolly simply because it outspeeds Jolly Rock Polish Rhyperior) Attack, and it makes a great Raikou check, though be careful about sending it into a full health Raikou while it Calm Minds, because it will survive the Close Combat and OHKO with Thunderbolt even without Life Orb. It also gets surprise kills on things like Mismagius, Swellow, and Ambipom that expect to outspeed. However, what's so great about it is that completely screws over its usual checks, especially those damn Spiritomb I've been seeing a lot of. 4 out of 5 times I Trick right away, no matter what Pokemon is out, and it works almost every time.
Which do you think would be more effective, Trickscarf Gallade, or Trickscarf Manectric?
I'm having the same trouble. I'm going with Adamant as the time being, as Sucker Punch already packs solid priority (although I know of it's risks) and it provides more powerful to its insane Brave Bird and Superpower. In the last moveslot I'm using Roost to restore recoil and LO damage and its working pretty well.
With Raikou and Gallade around? Hell no. I'd say the best typing right now is Grass/Poison for countering Gallade, Raikou and Perior.
May I ask how grass/poison as a type alone "counters" any of these? Gallade has access to both Psycho Cut and Ice Punch, Raikou runs CM and the only grass/poison w/EQ is Venusaur(so you will actually be set up on), and both of Rhyperior's STABs(ground and rock) are neutral. Does grass/poison serve as a check against Rhyperior? Sure. Against the other two? Hell no.
I too think flying is the most effective type in UU. Raikou doesn't quite fit the bill as a flying counter, as Swellow outspeeds and OHKOs with Guts boosted Facade(w/prior damage from switching into Brave Bird). Honchkrow has the quite obvious Night Slash, though Brave Bird hurts a ton. Altaria, while it doesn't use flying STAB and lost set up fodder in Roserade, is still quite solid, being able to go mixed or pure physical/special.
That, and about half of all Raikous have HP Ice or Fire. But yeah, that's besides the point.
But while some Flying types are dominant (Honchcrow being chief among them), the type in and of itself is underwhelming. Weaknesses to rock, ice, and electric (all common attacking types) PLUS whatever the secondary type tacks on is never good. No, I'm gonna have to go with Normal. To put it bluntly, some of the normal types (the aformentioned Swellow, Tauros, Miltank, ect.) of this tier, while not always used, are AMAZING. Rocks and steels are basically Steelix, Registeel, Rhypereor, and Regirock: All of which are taken out by Dugtrio.
Well to be fair, Venusaur is the most viable Grass / Poison type in the tier, like, by far. There is almost no reason to run any other right now, and if my own experience is anything to go by, it will be in the top 10 for the coming months, if not top 5 even. Seriously, it is everywhere!
Right now, Honchkrow, Swellow, and Moltres are the only decent fliers in UU. Maybe Altaria, possibly Drifblim.
Lol, Rhyperior is far more threatening. Except for Moltres. Honchkrow can BB thru the Subs, but you'll need prediction for the Sucker Punch KO. Bulky waters are the only other real problem, but with three flyers, you can easily rape them.
Honestly, Swellow is far better as a check nowadays. Moltres, I find, has a tougher time keeping up, for whatever reason, and Honchkrow is more of a brute force Pokemon than anything. And most of their secondary typings are extremely useful. Swellow loves taking over from Venusaur, and coming in with impunity on Missy Shadow Ball. Honchkrow laughs at Venusaur, before running thru it like a knife. And Moltres comes in on shit like Blaziken and Gallade and Toxicroak, and hell, even some Arcanine, and just rams them into the ground.
Depending on the team, you could use Leafeon. And I've seen a few Tangrowth.
Lol, Rhyperior is far more threatening. Except for Moltres. Honchkrow can BB thru the Subs, but you'll need prediction for the Sucker Punch KO. Bulky waters are the only other real problem, but with three flyers, you can easily rape them.
Honestly, Swellow is far better as a check nowadays. Moltres, I find, has a tougher time keeping up, for whatever reason, and Honchkrow is more of a brute force Pokemon than anything. And most of their secondary typings are extremely useful. Swellow loves taking over from Venusaur, and coming in with impunity on Missy Shadow Ball. Honchkrow laughs at Venusaur, before running thru it like a knife. And Moltres comes in on shit like Blaziken and Gallade and Toxicroak, and hell, even some Arcanine, and just rams them into the ground.
Depending on the team, you could use Leafeon. And I've seen a few Tangrowth.
Grass / Poison
With Arcanine and Alakazam around? Hell no. See what I did there? Just because Raikou and Gallade can set up on Milotic doesn't make Water any worse. He said the best typing in UU overall and I strongly believe it is Water. It's an excellent defensive type giving us strong walls like Slowbro and Milotic which cover threats like Arcanine and Moltres who would be much more threatening if they weren't present, while also having strong offensive powerhouses such as Azumarill and Feraligatr. Btw, Water STAB is probably the best you're gonna get at getting rid of Rhyperior, and he's on your little list of threats.
It's getting annoying. A few people are saying how "diverse" the metagame is but I keep seeing the same pokemon over and over. Froslass/Venusaur/Gallade/Raikou/Spiritomb/Rhyperior.
Old UU standards like Toxicroak, Drapion, and Clefable are rare, atleast to me.
In all seriousness, can one claim that a metagame is ever truly diverse? Top 10 are Top 10 for a reason. There is always going to be top-notch Pokemon that need to be checked and there is going to be Pokemon that function well at checking those threats as well as be a flexible enough to check other Pokemon. I agree, as of right now top ten is probably looking very centralized like (in no specific order)...
Froslass
Gallade
Raikou
Spiritomb
Rhyperior
Venusaur
Ambipom
However, this being a relatively new metagame it's hard to say what is over the top. There was comment previously saying something like "Well, its proven that you can't just slap the new Pokemon on a team and expect to win," I personally feel that this is a good sign.
As of right now, nothing has that BL feel.
Froslass
Gallade
Raikou
Spiritomb
Rhyperior
Venusaur
Ambipom
However, this being a relatively new metagame it's hard to say what is over the top. There was comment previously saying something like "Well, its proven that you can't just slap the new Pokemon on a team and expect to win," I personally feel that this is a good sign.
As of right now, nothing has that BL feel.
Looking back at old UU norms will lead you into a whirlwind of confusion.
I've ran a Stall Team. Gallade was hardly a threat compared to Grass Types. Admittedly, I could of ran Venusaur on that team... not the point. Gallade has to be very careful about when he switches in because soooo many things will happily put the hurt on him. I didn't even carry a check a check for him and I did fine. I dunno...
I've ran a Stall Team. Gallade was hardly a threat compared to Grass Types. Admittedly, I could of ran Venusaur on that team... not the point. Gallade has to be very careful about when he switches in because soooo many things will happily put the hurt on him. I didn't even carry a check a check for him and I did fine. I dunno...
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