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np: XY UU Stage 1 - Reload [Salamence: BL | Next: DROPS!!!]
- Thread starter kokoloko
- Start date
- Status
unanimously banned... very good
Venomoth going hmm. I'm not sure how I feel about this..
Salamence retest is going to be interesting to say the least. AssVest slowbro seems a pretty good stop being able to tank the physical hits and able to tank the special hits. But, it's Salamence's 100 base speed that separates it apart from other moxie users like Hera and Honch. It's ability to Dragon Dance and force out threats will be interesting. I think Hydreigon will face some serious competition now as premier scarfer....
Venomoth going hmm. I'm not sure how I feel about this..
Salamence retest is going to be interesting to say the least. AssVest slowbro seems a pretty good stop being able to tank the physical hits and able to tank the special hits. But, it's Salamence's 100 base speed that separates it apart from other moxie users like Hera and Honch. It's ability to Dragon Dance and force out threats will be interesting. I think Hydreigon will face some serious competition now as premier scarfer....
Actually scarf jirachi could be a good check. Last gen it was revered as a dragon killer and it could do the same in UU. It just needs to watch out for earthquake and it should be fine.
If you're using Scarf Hydra, you're doing it wrong (to me anyway). It's such a powerful wall breaker, and those extra two points in speed make a huge difference. It doesn't really have cleaning potential either since it's best attack effectively halves it's power after each use.
Moth is getting retested after Salamence.
Hydra's Base 98 speed and excellent coverage allows it to spam Dark Pulse late game and pick off weakened foes. Scarf Hydra checks Moxie Hera with Fire Blast, Scarf Darm, Nidoking has a 50% of being OHKO with SR (252 SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Nidoking: 262-309 (86.1 - 101.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock), etc..
Hydreigon could go for Specs, but it can be RK so easily then and Florges is STILL a problem. It's immune to spikes and t-spikes, neutral to SR, resists fire, water, grass, ghost, dark and immune to ground moves. DM sp attack drop stinks, but it can afford to hit and run due to it's number of resistances and immuniy.
Pro-Venomoth changes since gen5:
Florges(full counter)
Mega blastoise(check)
Hydreigon New special sweepers of good defensive synergy
Anti-Venomoth changes since gen5:
Grass immunity (Roserade and Amoonguss are now full counters)
Sturdy and sash users (Cloyster, Donphan, Forretress, Aggron, Crawdaunt)
Priority (Entei, Metagross,Crawdaunt, Zygarde, Diggersby)
Hydreigon and Jirachi General elevation of the speed tier
Assault Vest/Safety Goggles
Florges(full counter)
Mega blastoise(check)
Anti-Venomoth changes since gen5:
Grass immunity (Roserade and Amoonguss are now full counters)
Sturdy and sash users (Cloyster, Donphan, Forretress, Aggron,
Priority (Entei, Metagross,
Assault Vest/Safety Goggles
you seem to be neglecting the point that the mons that venemoth can pass to are greater in number and the ones it had last gen have only gotten better such as nidoking. Other than king moth can pass to hydrei and exploud who are only held back by their speed tiers, which venemoth boosts while bringing their attacking moves earth shattering power. though venemoth isnt a sweeper on its own it has the ability to set up a number of mons to absolutely faceroll the metagame without much difficulty.
Venomoth isn't dangerous because of its sweeping prowess, but it's because everytime it cannot OHKO something, it will baton pass its boosts to a more dangerous wall breaker like Azelf or Nidoking/Queen.
kokoloko you won't hear any bitching from me, Venomoth totally deserves the ban hammer.
On another note, I don't really wanna see Hippo and MegaMan banned as they are completely fine in UU and are far from broken.
kokoloko you won't hear any bitching from me, Venomoth totally deserves the ban hammer.
On another note, I don't really wanna see Hippo and MegaMan banned as they are completely fine in UU and are far from broken.
That's not being banned, that's moving up through OU usage.
I agree with what you said about vene but you seem to misunderstand the hippo mega man talk. They wont be banned as they aren't broken but the problem is that these mons may receive enough OU usage to move up a tier effectively making them illegal in UU.
EDIT: fucking ninjad gg rotom gg
>grass immunity
ok because moth can't just pass to a different mon ?_? i dont know how in hell you think those two are counters because they are clearly not
Death to the moth! Anyways, just wanted to answer something here:
Nope, Gothitelle made this record back in BW2.
Nope, Gothitelle made this record back in BW2.
The only grass type that Venomoth can pass into is .. Shaymin?
your missing the point he said pass out to any mon as a grass type comes in, and you seem to be forgetting roserade as a grass type possibility though i dont recomend dedicated quiverpassing to rose, just sayin
that's not including the fact that moth also has the option of giving up a STAB move for substitute. what is spore lmao. now it can safely pass into nido/whatevershit that you run as a recipient.
tbh av is like the only thing relevant since moth can survive a priority hit and bp out (it's actually more advantageous because recipient takes zero damage lol)
tbh av is like the only thing relevant since moth can survive a priority hit and bp out (it's actually more advantageous because recipient takes zero damage lol)
Glad about the ban of Venomoth, good job chef kokoloko and the UU council.
Venomoth actually is RU (also should be NU by usage) but is broken at every low tier, even in UU; in this tier have some extra really good points like an easier way to deal with hazards so almost you have guarantee to keep their focus sash; Quiver Dance + Sleep Powder + Baton Pass with Wonder Skin and a decent typing is pretty obscene for tiers which are supposed to be competitive tiers, basically have no counters because have some great receivers Venomoth and depending on the opponent team you can play differently depending on their team, a few are the universal checks like Snorlax Restalker WW (which 1. not good 2. relies on Sleep Talk).
Venomoth actually is RU (also should be NU by usage) but is broken at every low tier, even in UU; in this tier have some extra really good points like an easier way to deal with hazards so almost you have guarantee to keep their focus sash; Quiver Dance + Sleep Powder + Baton Pass with Wonder Skin and a decent typing is pretty obscene for tiers which are supposed to be competitive tiers, basically have no counters because have some great receivers Venomoth and depending on the opponent team you can play differently depending on their team, a few are the universal checks like Snorlax Restalker WW (which 1. not good 2. relies on Sleep Talk).
thanks for taking venomoth from nu <3 also mence test happening get hyped totally gonna stay uu
Poor Venomoth. Didn't even get to pledge guilty or naw. Anyway I am ready for Salamence to join the tier. The scarf set is probably going to see some usage, because it outspeeds hydreigon. Most scarf set will probably be moxie, since it could probably get a late game sweep. Intimidate would also help against the physical dark and fighting types in UU. Dragon Dance set is also going to be used a lot, but florges is everywhere. The mixed set would be helpful, since you could take out Florges with a surprise Iron tail, but hydreigon is probably better at running mixed.
Another thing that could be used is something like special Salamnece. Probably the most stupidest thing you could, but it will be pretty funny :]
Another thing that could be used is something like special Salamnece. Probably the most stupidest thing you could, but it will be pretty funny :]
If Salamence and Starapter also get voted BL (which I think they will) it's probably time to retest klefki before anything else if you ask me, it did only get BL by a minority vote and it seems like a good check to a lot of the things to be tested in the future.
Once a mon is voted bl it stays there unless the meta shifts in a major way as far as i know
God damn it I had a Staraptor thread ready to copy paste as soon as we finished Crawdaunt... Oh well, maybe another time.
Anyways, Salamance is pretty damn good. Unlike Hydreigon who has less speed and can't bring his stats up, Salamance gets perfect 100 speed, moxie to get more attack for each kill and Dragon Dance to make it even faster. His special attack is ok so he can build for mixed along with Moxie boosting. He even gets steel wing to have a chance at ruining Florges if it tries to switch in.
+1 252 Atk Salamence Steel Wing vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Florges: 324-382 (90 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
Ice Shard is still uncommon but Salamance still has the x4 to that specific priority move, Florges still blocks all dragon attacks including Outrage, it has and it has a small rock weakness so you can't switch it around too much without roost to heal you. Other than that it can hit really hard, especially after one kill and unlike Hydreigons dark typing with 98 speed Salamance's flying type weaknesses are mostly covered by his dragon type and isn't as easily out sped, especially if you have to move someone in while he Dragon Dances or gets a free kill allowing Moxie to start snowballing.
Anyways, Salamance is pretty damn good. Unlike Hydreigon who has less speed and can't bring his stats up, Salamance gets perfect 100 speed, moxie to get more attack for each kill and Dragon Dance to make it even faster. His special attack is ok so he can build for mixed along with Moxie boosting. He even gets steel wing to have a chance at ruining Florges if it tries to switch in.
+1 252 Atk Salamence Steel Wing vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Florges: 324-382 (90 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
Ice Shard is still uncommon but Salamance still has the x4 to that specific priority move, Florges still blocks all dragon attacks including Outrage, it has and it has a small rock weakness so you can't switch it around too much without roost to heal you. Other than that it can hit really hard, especially after one kill and unlike Hydreigons dark typing with 98 speed Salamance's flying type weaknesses are mostly covered by his dragon type and isn't as easily out sped, especially if you have to move someone in while he Dragon Dances or gets a free kill allowing Moxie to start snowballing.
Agreed, Salamence is a true threat in this tier. However, it can't counter Florges and probably shouldn't even considering Steel Wing and the fact that this is at +1. It's really fucking bulky though, I've used a 252 HP/252+ SDef set and it fucking works. It can take Florges's moonblast, and it takes no more than mostly half health, which can be roosted away. It can take Suicune's Ice Beam (really rare, and only with 4 EVs) as a rough 2HKO, and can be roosted away. Of course, more offensive threats are such a pain, even with all the special investment. In very situational cases, it can take a +0 Ice Shard from cloyster with only 252 HP investment, at 15% health left, so yeah, Ice Shard is a real pain. Anyways, I'll just include this really weird set here, just to show it has defensive traits
Salamence @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Atk
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Roost
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Atk
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Status