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NU Discussion Thread (Mark II)

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Raikou, Spiritomb and Regirock were never allowed. They have always been UU or BL. While Raikou is now useable in UU, it is not in NU.

Base 84 attack still makes Charizard a rather hard hitter within NU, especially with it's high speed, and Swords Dance. Then STAB Flare Blitz, Blaze, ect. (Although, to be fair, with Blaze, he'll only get off 1 Flare Blitz)

Charizard uses the following moves semi-commonly, or at least, they are viable:

Flamethrower
Overheat (Mixed Sets)
Fire Blast
Flare Blitz
Heat Wave
Fire Punch (If you don't want Recoil)
Hidden Power
Return
Earthquake
Dragon Claw (DragonFire attacking combo, unresisted in NU)
Focus Blast
Crunch (Ghosts and Psychics)
ThunderPunch (Harder hit on Waters)

Support: (Self or otherwise)
Belly Drum
Dragon Dance
Swords Dance
Will-O-Wisp
Roar

I'd say that's a lot wider than 90% of NU. I still say that Charizard is the Salamance of NU. Wide movepool, unpredictable, strong on both sides, mixed sets, DD set, ect. They are even both crippled by rocks, and have a Base 100 speed.

Even then, there's a few moves that could be used. Rock Slide could be used to beat the numerous other Fire types, specifically other Charizards.
 
seds said:
After playing NU ladder about a dozen times on C.A.P I came to the conclusion that regice is a bit rigged. It can take some serious punishment without going down. The rest-sleep talk charge beam-ice beam set is genious. I run calm + 252 HP/defense. There is probably a better spread out there but I am too lazy to find out.

It doesn't seem too good on paper but it gets a good 2-3 KOs per match. STAB ice beam is decent, does about 35%+ to the average non resist switch in. The key to success with it was using rest a lot. Fighting moves are easy to see usually... and the only NU fighters are hitmonchan and poliwrath. Regice absorbs status, kills stuff after a boost or two, and is really underestimated. The type is bad but... it still is really good.

I see some serious changes have gone on since I played it last, like there is no Raikou, spiritomb or Regirock allowed... Were they ever? I was allowed to use the last 2 in C.A.P.!

At first I was amazed at how many strong pokemon and ledgendaries were allowed, but moltres is gone too. (the staller gave me trouble without my rester REGIROCK) Seems that has been since fixed. I will be there if an NU ladder is opened. Sadly, I imagined an NU with things like lumineon, masquerain and whiscash being more viable. Maybe it is time for Never ever used. (maybe not) Glad NU is getting some attention!
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The tier below NU, if it ever gets played, should contain Pokemon like Tropius, Marowak, Lunatone, Lopunny, Piloswine, etc. if that makes you happier.
 
Actually, NU could theoretically be split into 3, maybe 4 more teirs, of roughly equal size to the current ones.

Which is scary.

This is because of:
1. Vast numbers of fully evolved pokemon. That's over 150.
2: All of the NFE's. Some are viable in the current NU meta, but as you get lower down, more and more will be viable.

This is also the reason where some things are still not viable. When any other water type is around, who'd use Lumeion?

But yes, there could be a split like this, if we ever get enough players:

1: NUbers: NU pokemon by Smogon, Uber in NU. Before it moved up, Aggron would have made this, by my guesses, as a Head Smash destroyed EVERYTHING. Gastrodon and Quagsire were 2HKO'ed, and Gligar couldn't beat RP sets. Hippopotas's sand stream also helped greatly. As it stands, there are a few possible suspects, be it due to any of the three Uber characteristics. (Walrein may qualify, because of it's Stallrein set, and Super Fang, under Defence)

2: NU: Teir 1: This would be the OU of NU. Things like Gastrodon, Medicham, Primape, Haunter and Skuntank.

3: NU: Teir 2: This would be like our UU. Things like Vileplume, Phione, ect, could be here.

4: Forgotten: This is the teir where the rubbish reign superme. The NU of NU! Chatot, Pachirisu, Luvdisk, Farfeched, and a lot of NFE's would be here. Needless to say, this teir would be chaos. A place where Farfeched could actually pull off a Swords Dance Sweep, and Luvdisk's Aqua Jet is the Scizor? Madness.

Of course, for this, we'd need our own server. Can't expct CAP to run four ladders for us, and Doug to keep stats on another three than he already does, can you?
 
Hahaha. Luvdisc can already counter Groudon; don't take it lightly.

But yeah. I came into NU thinking "Yaaaay I can use Sableye, Farfetch'd, Kecleon, and Leafeon~" and then I got smashed down.
 
Linkshot said:
Hahaha. Luvdisc can already counter Groudon; don't take it lightly.

But yeah. I came into NU thinking "Yaaaay I can use Sableye, Farfetch'd, Kecleon, and Leafeon~" and then I got smashed down.
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Leafeon is still a potent threat. With Tangrowth being UU, there is no reason not to use Leafeon.
 
I accidentally implied Leafeon is not viable, but I know it is.

I still feel like it got trolled. It was given intensive Def but terrible SpD, and Grass type.
 
Leafeon is good because its the best bulky SDer in NU. It has great defense, decent HP, and 95 Speed. All which make it good for Swords Dancing.

Leafeon @ Leftovers/Meadow Plate/Life Orb
Swords Dance
Leaf Blade
Return
Synthesis/Quick Attack/X-Scissor

You can go with 252 Attack/252 Speed or 252 HP/252 Speed. Jolly nature for both. Leafeon is one of the best NUs by far imo
 
Linkshot said:
I accidentally implied Leafeon is not viable, but I know it is.

I still feel like it got trolled. It was given intensive Def but terrible SpD, and Grass type.
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Well, as an Eevee evolution, it had limited stats. The smogon analysis is right, there is really no better distribution given its movepool/typing IMO.
 
Articuno @Lefteovers
Nature: Careful/Impish
252 hp 96 def 160 sdf
~Heal Bell/Reflect
~Roost
~Roar/Reflect
~Avalanche/U-turn
Articuno is great wall, but why not use a physical one for better utility? U-turn is great for getting Articuno of a situation he has no business in after he "sets up". Or why not use avalanche, think about it, articuno is probably going to be slower then a lot of things attacking it since it lacks any speed investment.
 
Hey guys, maybe we should try an Entei set like this?

Entei @ Leftovers
Nature: Timid
252 Speed, 248 HP, 8 SpA
~ Calm Mind
~ Flamethrower/Fire Blast
~ Hidden Power Grass/Ground
~ Rest

A CM Entei is deadly, but like Raikou, it depends on the type of Hidden Power. Solarbeam is not useful, by the time you get to attacking, the sun would be gone.
 
Near max HP investment is so wasteful on Entei given its base stat distribution, unless you are intent on maximizing one particular defense stat, which a sweeper isn't.

If that much bulk is necessary, a good portion of it is better off invested in the Defenses. Though I would probably want at least a bit more special attack anyway.
 
Mattman324 said:
Hey guys, maybe we should try an Entei set like this?

Entei @ Leftovers
Nature: Jolly
252 Speed, 248 HP, 8 SpA
~ Calm Mind
~ Flamethrower/Fire Blast
~ Hidden Power Grass/Ground
~ Rest

A CM Entei is deadly, but like Raikou, it depends on the type of Hidden Power. Solarbeam is not useful, by the time you get to attacking, the sun would be gone.
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Sorry man, but you've been beaten by a very long shot. There have been Calm mind Enteis hovering around Nu since its beginning. Most ones I've seen run max Speed with a timid nature (why are you using jolly?) with enough EVs to generate 101 subs (aids when setting up on seismic toss Regice, or anything with seismic toss for that matter) with the rest in Special Attack. Also, Entei is not nearly as bulky as Suicune and is weak to earthquake, so he won't typically be enduring his resting period with his boosts. Substitute is a lot better in this case.
 
Sceats said:
Also, how does that entei beat other fire types? Stone edge is far more useful than rest.
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Thats just the thing. You can choose HP Ground for Fires, or HP Grass for those Waters and Grounds (and Rocks).

Also, Yeah, it should have been timid. Fixed.
 
You ALWAYS want hp grass, otherwise quagsire, gastrodon, poliwrath, relicanth and rhydon shit all over you. Also remember that fthrower and hp ground is not doing anything to charizard.
 
'Salamance of NU' is an understatement.

Salamence sets:
Mixmance (x2)
Dragon Dance
CB
Choice Scarf
Choice Specs (Gimmick only, fails other than shock value)

Charizard Sets:
BellyZard
Swords Dance
Dragon Dance
Choice Specs
Choice Band
Choice Scarf
Mixzard (Physical and Special based, some also carry Boosting move +2 Physicals + Overheat)
Subzard (Subpunch would even be viable!)

All of the above sets cause havok in NU, or could at least have to potentual to. The only thing stopping Charizard in Nu, is the same thing that makes people doubt Salamance being Uber... Stealth Rocks, and even then, it's 50%, and still perfectly useable. People are resorting to putting rocks on multiple pokemon per game now, I've seen leads, (Handled by my Floatzel) use SR (And Fail), and then something like Gligar later in the game, which uses SR.

If NU ever does suspect tests, I'm backing Charizard... that thing is seriously hard to stop, and has no 'hard counters'. The bulky waters are dealt with by Boosting Versions, and everything dies to Bellyzard, no questions asked, unless it's got insane (For NU) Speed, Scarf, or Priority strong enough to actually take it out.

Even then, Shell Bell would actually work for BellyZard... not like it needs more power, but healing tons of HP per turn... nice, and helps counter priority.
 
I have been having a good amount of success with Nidoqueen. Just the standard tspikes/sr/roar/eq set. seems to get the entry hazards down I want, useful to phaze, and is a pain to take down. I don't lead it (want to see the team a bit to see if tspikes even hae a point) but it is easy to send in on electric attacks and fighting moves.

Its also been working well in UU as well...
 
I've been using Nidoqueen Lead with Super Fang; it is pretty bulky and usually can take most hits from other leads. Trying to see what else I can do with it.
 
You know; I'd really love to get back to the 'old' NU-tier, where almost no pokémon had a base stat over 85-90(save for HP, which was sometimes even over 100)

It was a fast-paced metagame, it was way more fun than it is now, because sometimes, it's just a lot of fun to use pokémon that are fairly weak and put 'em against each other.
And every pokémon(or almost every pokémon) had WAY more choices for movesets than the regular OU/UU pokémon that fit 1,2, maybe 3 niches. Most of these pokémon have really bad stats, but amazing movepools (take corsola, it can be supporter with dual screens, special sweeper, physical sweeper, physical wall or special wall)

That's why I support the idea of a tier between UU & NU, and ban all the pokémon that are too strong, so the weaker pokémon can "run rampant" again in the metagame.
 
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