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NU Discussion Thread (Mark II)

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Hitmonlee may rise as the ultimate soft counter to mortar. 4 Hp variants are only 2KO'ed by focus blast, its strongest move bar FB(which does kill, by the way) so it can absorb a TB hurled at the expected slowking or an FB aimed at Miltank. it outspeeds (modest if adamant, all if jolly) and easily KO's back with Stone Edge. Or Close Combat if you're worried about SE's accuracy. Mag may have to start using Fire Blast more often. Assuming it drops down, of course, and from the looks of it, it could go either way.
 
Problem is, Lee can do nothing to stop Mortar just switching out. They bring in their Slowking and suddenly you're B2S1 with a badly damaged Hitmonlee.
 
First is that DDShelgon is a pretty good Pokemon. Thanks to its good typing and decnet defenses, Shelgon has an Easy time getting off a DD, and beating the crap out of stuff with Outrages. I think the reason it really shines is because of the general lack of steals besides Magneton. Fire Blast can deal with that though.
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Having used Shelgon in UU and had decent success with it, I would like to say Shelgon is good (Although I only used a defensive tank version in UU because it's a lot harder for him to sweep there). Don't use Fire Blast on him, since his Special Attack sucks big time. If you want to kill off Steels, Brick Break is probably the best option (Especially since heaps of Steels in NU are Steel/Rock as well).
 
I'm worried that DD Shelgon isn't bulky enough and that it wouldn't be able to set up on many pokes. It certainly can't set up on resisted Fire attacks from the likes of Typhlosion or Magmortar.
 
I ran Dodrio/Magneton way back when on the original NU Server, and it was a great combo. I haven't used it in this new metagame mainly because of all the priority, stealth rock, and I thought Magneton was still UU. >_>

Relicanth is still an excellent choice bander, despite Miltank being able to outstall it for the most part. It outspeeds and 2HKOs almost every wall (Miltank not withstanding) and is a fairly decent stall-breaker (keeping an eye out for quagsire of course).

If Hitmonlee drops, will he be used as a scarfer over Primeape, or will he fill another role? I mean, Hitmonlee is much stronger than Primeape, but he's also slower, and he lacks U-Turn.
 
Shrang, you are right. +1 Brick Break OHKOs Magneton and Fire Blast doesn't.

Ice-eyes said:
I'm worried that DD Shelgon isn't bulky enough and that it wouldn't be able to set up on many pokes. It certainly can't set up on resisted Fire attacks from the likes of Typhlosion or Magmortar.
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It has a really cool 100 base defense though. It can set up on shit like Rapidash and Sandslash. That and its 95 base ATk are its bigest selling points over something like Dragonair.
 
I agree that Primeape is probably a better Scarfer than Hitmonlee. However, Lee's extra power is useful for LO + 4 and SubLO sets, as it has access to Sucker Punch for priority and the increased power is more evident. Also, it can double up with Scarf alongside Primeape, though I would prefer to complement Ape with an LO set (and my Cham lead).
 
Ice-eyes said:
Dodrio
Dodrio takes advantage of the scarcity of Rock-types (Golem/Rhydon are nowhere, Relicanth doesn't have enough power and is commonly used as a lead anyway and Cradily doesn't resist Flying).

I've been testing Dodrio a little and I've found it to be extremely potent. It's basically, '2HKO their Normal resist/physical wall with Brave Bird, switch out, clean up with Return late-game'.

It helps a lot if you have a strong core to switch into would-be revenge-killers. Magneton is a fantastic partner, resisting Rock, Ice and Electric while Dodrio can get a rare free switch-in on Ground attacks in return. Maggie also Subs easily on Miltank, which is one of the few pokes that can capably wall Dodrio. Another good poke to pair with it is Scarf Primeape, which easily cleans up once physically bulky pokemon are gone and can threaten Rock- and Steel-types with its powerful Close Combat. Medicham is really useful in the same vein - it can bring in potential revenge-killers to be damaged and blows holes in physical walls to help Primeape and Dodrio.

A bulky Ground-type like Quagsire or Gligar can also help - Dodrio comes in on Grass moves while Quagsire resists Rock and is immune to Electric as well as being able to switch into Skuntank and Scarf Primeape.

There's definitely the potential for a really good team here - if anyone wanted to test it I'd be interested to see the results.
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Yeah, back at the start of NU, I used Dodrio, and this was before HG/SS. I used it with a Choice Band, nd it has Return/Drill Peck/Quick Attack/ Persuit, making it a little like CBScizor, in terms of trapping but also with cleaning power with Base 100 Speed, and some powerful STABS. I paired it quite well with Gastrodon, and Raichu.
 
What about LO Pidgeot?

Ok, the only thing it has going for it is U-Turn (and better defensive stats over Dodrio)... but that's something to consider.

Something like that:

Pidgeot @ Life Orb
Adamant/Jolly
252 atk/252 speed/6 HP

U-Turn
Brave Bird
Return
Roost

It can also be your choice of switch into any confusion move, giving Pidgeot a huge boost on evasion for a couple of turns.
 
M BLADE said:
What about LO Pidgeot?

Ok, the only thing it has going for it is U-Turn (and better defensive stats over Dodrio)... but that's something to consider.

Something like that:

Pidgeot @ Life Orb
Adamant/Jolly
252 atk/252 speed/6 HP

U-Turn
Brave Bird
Return
Roost

It can also be your choice of switch into any confusion move, giving Pidgeot a huge boost on evasion for a couple of turns.
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I'm not sure if I'd go with that. Most Pokemon don't carry Confuse Ray so chances are, you won't be switching into confusion moves. The thing is that Dodrio pulls that set off better so you'd only be using Pidgeot for personal favorites. Pidgeot only has 5 Defense higher than Dodrio and 10 SpcDefense higher. That set does work though and having 23 base HP higher is something, I guess...
 
Pidgeot only thing going for it is U-Turn, like i said.
U-Turn alone is enough to consider Pidgeot... but that alone maybe isn't enough.
 
Khyl said:
If Hitmonlee drops, will he be used as a scarfer over Primeape, or will he fill another role? I mean, Hitmonlee is much stronger than Primeape, but he's also slower, and he lacks U-Turn.
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I recently want to try NU, so I've been lurking this thread. Just want to chip in here and say sorry but I use a Hitmonlee on my main team in UU and I've seen a lot of em lately so I doubt it's gonna drop to NU...but you never know. =P
 
M BLADE said:
Pidgeot only thing going for it is U-Turn, like i said.
U-Turn alone is enough to consider Pidgeot... but that alone maybe isn't enough.
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Damn, i needed to quote myself just for that. Contradiction FTW

Anyway: I think Hitmonlee should be more offensive, while Primeape concentrates on the revenge killing.

Let's see:

Primeape is the better scarfer/Revenge killer (Elemental Punches + U-Turn + better speed),
Hitmonlee should concentrate on LO/CB sets.

The less used Hitmonchan is the Bulk Up poke of choice.
Sub + 3 attacks are divided between the Hitmon pokes (Chan has the Iron Focus Punch, while Lee has more atk and speed).
 
I think probably the best way to run Pidgeot without getting outclassed by pretty much every Normal/Flying Pokemon out there except Farfetch'd is to run something like a physically defensive set like:

Pidgeot @ Leftovers
Ability: Whichever
EVs: 248 HP/52 Def/208 Spe
Nature: Timid
-Roost
-Featherdance/Toxic
-Substitute
-Air Slash

Just theorymoning here. If you can some hazards up, this set can get quite annoying, especially against physical attackers who get an equivalent of Will-O-Wisp as they come in (Should you use Featherdance). The Speed allows you to outrun Jolly Pinsir, but you guys could probably think of a better Speed number to hit.
 
You'd need Toxic Spikes support or Toxic to make sure you're actually doing something instead of waiting for a Nasty Plot Raichu to switch in.
 
M BLADE said:
What about LO Pidgeot?

Ok, the only thing it has going for it is U-Turn (and better defensive stats over Dodrio)... but that's something to consider.

Something like that:

Pidgeot @ Life Orb
Adamant/Jolly
252 atk/252 speed/6 HP

U-Turn
Brave Bird
Return
Roost

It can also be your choice of switch into any confusion move, giving Pidgeot a huge boost on evasion for a couple of turns.
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Even if it has to run Drill Peck, Fearow soundly outclasses that. It's a lot harder hitting, expecially since Normal (Return's what you are going to be mainly using.) and Flying get redundant type coverage.
 
Pidgeot is faster than Noctowl, which is probably the main attraction of that set. Pidgeot isn't going to get one-shotted by Stone Edge or something like that when you can Sub before the opponent launches one at you. It's more of a QuickStaller than an actual bulky staller (Articuno does do the job better though).
 
M BLADE said:
What about LO Pidgeot?

Ok, the only thing it has going for it is U-Turn (and better defensive stats over Dodrio)... but that's something to consider.

Something like that:

Fearow @ Life Orb
Adamant/Jolly
252 atk/252 speed/6 HP

U-Turn
Drill Peck
Return
Roost

It can also be your choice of switch into any confusion move, giving Pidgeot a huge boost on evasion for a couple of turns.
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I just made that set better. Even then I don't think that it should be used over Dodrio. U-turn doesn't have that much utility if you are using it as a physical wallbreaker. Dodrio does get Baton Pass to us as a psuedo U-turn.
 
I believe Brave Bird from Pidgeot would be more powerful than Drill Peck from Fearow, I think. But then again, Fearow is faster and has a stronger Return.
 
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