NU Discussion Thread

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PS: Totally off topic but I'm pretty sure that "of" from "be of" in your signature is not supposed to be there.

well from a writer's standpoint the "be of" could actually be used in that case but it's like, antiquated english. essentially you're inferring be "a member" (or whatever) of the first (where the first is the noun that's being referenced) .. something that was common in older forms of english and writing. but yeah lol.

anyway i'd like to say that stall can work and work well in NU. brighT's well built team of walls thumped me twice in a row. i also enjoyed watching an arbok sweep earlier .. and folgorio's all-beedrill team ...
 
Anyone has tried Dustox? he's an awesome wall, at least in ou.

Hows he a good wall, even in nu his weakness to everything (including stealthrock) holds him back.

I also want to know how lopunny is more broken than medicham, entei and tauros, im sick of people thinking that nu= bad, people see something has power and declare it "broken for nu". For instance almost everyteam has grumpig, slowking, munchlax, poliwrath, flareon, rapidash, ninetales, wailord, hypno, relicanth or gastrodon. Not to mention priority, so why is entei broken? A threat definatly but not broken.
 
Trick Room can be quite decenty with many overpowered slow shit such as Rampardos, Marowak, Exeggutor, Camerupt, Cacturne, etc.. feck, even Clampearl and Trapinch can be usefull.
 
Trick Room seems to be quite tricky to pull off sometimes though, like if the opponent has a ton of priority, or a medium speed powerful sweeper like Medicham to hold you back.
 
That's what happen with Chomp and wobby, right? :3

Anyone has tried Dustox? he's an awesome wall, at least in ou.

What set?

P.s. You being annoying is only serving 1 purpose.

Jynx is a great sweeper, I find her better than Glaceon due to higher Speed and movepool and when Scarf Glaceon is Timid and Scarf Jynx is Modest, Jynx has higher Special Attack. In Hail her Blizzards are a force to be reckoned with, Forewarn is actually pretty useful.
 
What set?

P.s. You being annoying is only serving 1 purpose.

Jynx is a great sweeper, I find her better than Glaceon due to higher Speed and movepool and when Scarf Glaceon is Timid and Scarf Jynx is Modest, Jynx has higher Special Attack. In Hail her Blizzards are a force to be reckoned with, Forewarn is actually pretty useful.

I've only seen one Jynx so far, and it dies to priority fast with its glorious 35 def.
 
A sand team with a hippopotas lead would work wonders. With some decent walls benifiting from sand (shuckle, cradily)

It also gives Relicanth and Rhydon some "decent" SpDef.

Trick Room can be quite decenty with many overpowered slow shit such as Rampardos, Marowak, Exeggutor, Camerupt, Cacturne, etc.. feck, even Clampearl and Trapinch can be usefull.

I tried out a Trick Room team once, with Marowak, Clampearl, and Rampardos.


I think one thing we should try to do is get NFE Pokemon like Gligar bumped up to NU.
 
Off the top of my head:

Dusclops
Elecabuzz
Gabite
Gligar
Haunter
Kadabra
Misdreavus
Munchlax
Rhydon
Sneasel
Togetic
Yanma

EDIT: lol Cleffa was used more often than Clefairy in Standard ladder last month. Go FEAR!
 
I haven't seen many Gabite, Electabuzz, Kadabra, Misdreavus, Togetic and Yanma, to be honest. Even Magneton is more common than any of those.

I'd suggest we wait until we get usage statistics. The NFEs in the 'OU of NU' can be actually tiered as NU on the site.
 
I haven't seen many Gabite, Electabuzz, Kadabra, Misdreavus, Togetic and Yanma, to be honest. Even Magneton is more common than any of those.

I'd suggest we wait until we get usage statistics. The NFEs in the 'OU of NU' can be actually tiered as NU on the site.

I was using Yanma. But that doesn't matter. I guess that list goes for pokemon that can be used without problems in NU. If that's so Magmar needs to be there also.

Hows he a good wall, even in nu his weakness to everything (including stealthrock) holds him back.

Dont see his weakness, use it's resistances.

Stealth rocks drops back at least 50% of all the viable NU pokemon, so isn't an only-dustox problem, still, it's ability to clean toxic spikes and wall special hits plus P-passing it's awesome.

As I said I used him in OU, but I don't think there are many bug, poison, fighting attacks in NU. But at least I guess there should be some special attackers.

What set?

I use Light screen, Roost, Whirlwind, Toxic. The idea it's so switch in resisted hits or special non-super effective hits and do whatever you could. If the foe have something like probopass or aggron predict a switch and use something that can counter them, like digglet (or dugtrio in OU)

I wish he could learn Toxic spikes like... beedrill O_o but whatever.

P.s. You being annoying is only serving 1 purpose.

;_;

If we are talking about powerhouse NU pokemon I guess everyone here is forgetting Kingler. I once did 50% to a blastoise with +0 Crabhammer.
 
Off the top of my head:

Dusclops
Elecabuzz
Gabite
Gligar
Haunter
Kadabra
Misdreavus
Munchlax
Rhydon
Sneasel
Togetic
Yanma

EDIT: lol Cleffa was used more often than Clefairy in Standard ladder last month. Go FEAR!

I've only seen Dusclops, Gabite, Gligar, Haunter, Rhydon, Misdreavus, and Sneasel.

Dusclop is decent, but it really doesn't doesn't constitute much of a threat because, well, it is more of a wall than anything else. Most teams have good ways of getting past him so eh.

The only Gabite I've seen is the one I've been using before. I was using a Scarfed version with Outrage/Dragon Claw/EQ/Stone Edge. Dragon is a good attacking type in NU due to unpopularity of steels, but Gabite's base attack is a real letdown, and its speed isn't too high either. It either lacks power or speed, and it can't even pull a subsalac set like Garchomp due to lack of swords dance. Also it doesn't take hits very well.

Gligar is really good as most people already know. Ground/flying is a good typing that walls many physical presence, and its stats let it do that as well. It's also the fastest Taunt/SR user in NU (which is why it's my current lead), but sadly 85 speed is still lackluster in that job.

I've only seen one Haunter but it raped me with a Sub/Shadow Ball/Sludge Bomb/Something (prolly HP Fighting) set :( though I probably would've won anyways if it weren't for the fact that it scored a critical hit on the last Shadow Ball on my Magneton, but yeah. It makes as good use of substitute as Gengar in OU at least. Haven't seen it doing other jobs.

I *think* I saw Rhydon once, but that was when it switched in my Magneton expecting to sponge TBolt and instead had to face a sub and promptly went down freezing :(

I've tried using Misdreavus too. My conclusion - Drifblim does Missy's job much better except perish trapping, which Missy's stats don't lend itself to doing anyways.

Sneasel... well, you've seen sneasel leads I'm sure, and it does make a decent one, but I was looking for something that can set up rocks. The only Sneasel I faced was outsped and KO'd by a Scarf Glaceon's HP Fighting so I can't comment on that.
 
Pinsir has made a great anti-lead I found. Great coverage, and it often takes out at least 1 pokemon in a match. You can give it SR as well.

"Be of" is meaning, you'll be part of the first set of people, since other people are already there.
 
I've only seen one Haunter but it raped me with a Sub/Shadow Ball/Sludge Bomb/Something (prolly HP Fighting) set :( though I probably would've won anyways if it weren't for the fact that it scored a critical hit on the last Shadow Ball on my Magneton, but yeah. It makes as good use of substitute as Gengar in OU at least. Haven't seen it doing other jobs.

If it has HP Fighting, why would it Shadow Ball? With Magneton's terrible Special Defense, nobody should switch Magneton in.
 
If it has HP Fighting, why would it Shadow Ball? With Magneton's terrible Special Defense, nobody should switch Magneton in.

By the sounds of it, Magneton was his last Pokemon, so he probably didn't have a choice.

I've been using Magneton though. It's awesome. It's not OU anymore, like it was in Advance, but it's still great.

13 resistances (14 if it's levitating) is incredible, as is a whopping 120 Special Attack, which gives it the strongest Electric attacks in NU, I believe.

Talking about Electric types, what should I use out of Electabuzz and Raichu. Well, Electabuzz does have better HP, Defense, Special Attack, Special Defense AND Speed, I guess.
 
That's what happen with Chomp and wobby, right? :3
No, Ubers is not usage based, Chomp and wobuffet were voted into ubers because they were broken.

Anyone has tried Dustox? he's an awesome wall, at least in ou.
I really hope you're kidding, Dustox is absolutely worthless in OU. 60/70/90 defenses suck for a wall, stealth rock also takes 25% of your HP each time you switch in and it has no real useful support moves.
 
By the sounds of it, Magneton was his last Pokemon, so he probably didn't have a choice.
Huh?
What I meant was that if Haunter had HP Fighting, he definitely would have used it against Magneton instead of Shadow Ball, it has nothing to do with the last pokemon or anything else.
 
By the sounds of it, Magneton was his last Pokemon, so he probably didn't have a choice.

I've been using Magneton though. It's awesome. It's not OU anymore, like it was in Advance, but it's still great.

13 resistances (14 if it's levitating) is incredible, as is a whopping 120 Special Attack, which gives it the strongest Electric attacks in NU, I believe.

Talking about Electric types, what should I use out of Electabuzz and Raichu. Well, Electabuzz does have better HP, Defense, Special Attack, Special Defense AND Speed, I guess.

That would be Ampharos.

EDIT:Nvm it's base 115, I always thought it was base 125. >_> But now that I think about it that title belongs to Pikachu. xD
 
I've been playing quite a bit of NU on the ladder for the past few days, so I guess I'll post some of my experiences.

First off, the team I've been using is Gligar/Relicanth/Shelgon/Golbat/Magneton/Golduck. The lead spot started out as Hippopotas, but changed to Bibarel, and then to Gligar.

Yes, it probably does look extremely weird to be using 4 NFEs in a NU team, but they seem to be able to pull their weight extremely well. I'm not going to say that the team itself is good, and I really don't actually care, but it seems to manage somehow.

Now, as for my experiences with using these pokemon:

Gligar is a very sturdy physical wall, and since there are very few Ice Punch or Ice Shard users here, he can take quite a beating (though he's not too hot on the special side obviously). His high Speed is very helpful for setting up Stealth Rock quickly, and also for Taunting the many setup sweepers who are extremely dangerous if set up. Having reliable recovery helps him a lot as well.

Shelgon is amazing IMO, though not many others seem to think so. Many people try using him as a DDer, so I can see why they think he sucks. I, however, use him as a sturdy Wish staller. With max HP and max Def, he actually rivals Gligar in terms of physical walling, while actually having a lot of special resistances to compensate for his bad Special Defense. He can go mono-attack much better than Gligar, since Dragon Claw isn't resisted by much in NU besides the Steel pokemon which are all ridiculously weak to Earthquake from Gligar. I use Wish/Toxic/Protect/Dragon Claw, and it works very well most of the time. I used to have Roar over Toxic, and it worked pretty well too. Just to demonstrate how sturdy Shelgon is: an Adamant Choice Scarf Medicham's Ice Punch only has a 25% chance of a 2HKO with Leftovers recovery, which is pretty good considering it's a super effective hit.

Relicanth as a Rock Polish sweeper works very well in every tier bar ubers (yes it works very effectively in OU). Rock Polish/Head Smash/Waterfall/Earthquake with a Life Orb is the set that I like to use, and EVs are 112 HP/252 Atk/140 Spe/4 SDef with an Adamant nature. This lets it outspeed even a Jolly Floatzel after a Rock Polish, though I suppose 196 Speed EVs are fine too if you want to outspeed Adamant Choice Scarf Medicham and Timid Choice Scarf Magneton. It should be noted that LO Head Smash from max attack Relicanth hits with just 1% less power than a Choice Band Tyranitar's Stone Edge, which is a lot of power to be packing in NU.

Golbat is an odd choice, but he's great against slower things that can't 2HKO him (which oddly enough, is quite a bit thanks to his resistances). I use 252 HP/252 Spe/4 Atk Jolly with Leftovers, which allows him to take hits very well (just as a note, his defenses are only 10 under each of Crobat's). Only having 90 base Speed is a bit annoying, but that's still pretty good in NU. Taunt/Roost/Toxic/Brave Bird is a lethal combination, because if something can't 2HKO him they're easily Toxistalled, and they can't recover their health either. His attack isn't that high, but Brave Bird is still quite painful to the frail pokemon in NU.

Choice Scarf Magneton is a nice revenge-killer and lategame sweeper in NU, and he's pretty easy to switch in as well thanks to the 13 resistances. Trapping steels unfortunately isn't the easiest thing in this tier though. Aggron usually packs Earthquake, Probopass has Earth Power, Bastiodon has Metal Burst, and Mawile can Baton Pass out. I'd still choose Magnet Pull over Sturdy though, just to trap other Magnetons.

Golduck has been a pretty good sweeper for me, and he isn't hindered by the annoying Rain Dance teams, or even the Sunny Day ones while still recovering health in Sandstorm thanks to Cloud Nine. I use the SubCM set with Surf/Ice Beam as my attacks. I just use a sweeper EV spread, since after a couple of CMs the Substitute is still pretty damn strong, though if this were in UU I'd probably use a bit more bulk. Golduck is pretty bulky for a sweeper in NU though. I find that a SubCM user doesn't really need immunity to Seismic Toss or 101 HP subs, since the only one who really uses it is Dusclops (or Noctowl using Night Shade). Neither of them enjoy boosted Surfs or Ice Beams, in fact, they hate them. This has always been a good lategame sweeper for me since I started NU, so I hope people give Golduck an actual chance.

Now, I haven't really found that much to be annoying in this tier, except one pokemon, and that's Jumpluff. I absolutely despise fighting this thing, especially since there's only like 3 pokemon faster than it. You basically have to let something take the sleep, already crippling a pokemon, which in turn lets it get a free sub. Then it can just Encore whatever you do and switch to the appropriate pokemon. It's rather difficult to set up on it at all, because if it Encores a setup move, the opponent can now bring in a setup sweeper, or it can just SubSeed you to death. Let me remind you that when you have a faster Encore, and if the person kept their pokemon in through the Encore, it can be absolutely lethal to the opponent. The turn that it says the Encore has ended, you're able to just Encore it again, and they're forced to repeat the move for another 4-8 turns. Not to mention the Memento/switch to sweeper strategy. If this thing wasn't here, things like Linoone wouldn't even have a chance at pulling Belly Drum sweeps. Seriously, I think that if anything in this tier is going to get banned on the support characteristic, this one is going to be the first one banned.
 
461 Medicham
455 Gardevoir
369 Skuntank
351 Pinsir
335 Gligar
332 Jumpluff
323 Magneton
311 Sandslash
300 Hitmonchan
295 Slowking
275 Dusclops
270 Flareon
254 Manectric
249 Exeggutor
235 Drifblim
219 Relicanth
219 Poliwrath
217 Entei
212 Primeape
208 Lickilicky

these are the top 20 most used pokemon from the nu server. these are very biased, as there arent many people still on the server, but they give you something to chew on.
 
Talking about Electric types, what should I use out of Electabuzz and Raichu. Well, Electabuzz does have better HP, Defense, Special Attack, Special Defense AND Speed, I guess.

Definitly electabuzz. I cannot tell you people enough how great electabuzz is doing for me. Besides, pikachu is better than raichu.
I also fing that scarf machoke is quite good.
 
No, Ubers is not usage based, Chomp and wobuffet were voted into ubers because they were broken.

*sigh*

Prove it.

I really hope you're kidding, Dustox is absolutely worthless in OU. 60/70/90 defenses suck for a wall, stealth rock also takes 25% of your HP each time you switch in and it has no real useful support moves.

Blah, blah, blah. you haven't tested it.

I got a warstory (my 2nd one if im not wrong) where I used dustox and did pretty well against an OU team, whatever.

Anyways, I was testing dustox in NU and he does pretty well also, with some support (because I've seen so many Stone edges today)
 
*sigh*

Prove it.
Prove what? that they were tested or that they were broken?

Proving that they were tested is easy just look up the old voting threads, If you mean prove that they were broken then that is impossible because brokenness is a subjective quality that cannot be proven, however a large portion of eligible voters thought that they were broken.

Blah, blah, blah. you haven't tested it.

I got a warstory (my 2nd one if im not wrong) where I used dustox and did pretty well against an OU team, whatever.

Anyways, I was testing dustox in NU and he does pretty well also, with some support (because I've seen so many Stone edges today)
I haven't tested luvdisc either but I still know it's crap.

I've read some of your warstories you're opponents are always very incompetent players, I highly doubt that dustox has ever done anything on your team that another pokemon couldn't have done better.
 
I did a little bit of tinkering with NU/NFE Base Stats on a spreadsheet so I could see some average base stats and draw my own conclusions.

Just a couple of notes before I tell you what I got - I used Marowak, Pikachu, Azurill, Marill and Medicham's MODIFIED base stats. The reason being that they're never ever going to be used without those (Marowak will always have Thick Club, Pikachu will always have Light Ball, Azurill, Marill and Medicham will pretty much always have Huge/Pure Power).

Azurill and Marill both have the equivalent of 88 base Attack
Marowak has the equivalent of 209 base Attack
Clamperl has the equivalent of 196 base Special Attack
Medicham has the equivalent of 168 base Attack
Pikachu has the equivalent of 158 base Attack, and 148 base Special Attack

Here's the average base stats:

NU Pokemon only

HP 73
Attack 84
Defense 77
Special Attack 76
Special Defense 77
Speed 68

NU and all NFEs together

HP 61
Attack 67
Defense 64
Special Attack 61
Special Defense 62
Speed 58

NU and competitive NFEs*

HP 68
Attack 77
Defense 73
Special Attack 70
Special Defense 72
Speed 65

*Competitive NFEs, for the purposes of this spreadsheet are at least 1 of the following:

- 2nd stage evolution (in the case of 3 stage chains)
- Not a NFE of a current NU (unless they're a special case)
- Distinct to their evolution

An example of a 2nd stage evolution is Charmeleon, meaning that Charmander wasn't counted in this average. A NFE of a current NU would be something like Flaafy, since Ampharos is currently also NU. An exception to this would be Anorith, who is much different than Armaldo due to a huge speed difference. In most cases, if something is distinct to its evolution, it's already counted as NU, but just in case they weren't, they're still listed.

---------------------------------------

What we can gather from this, is that the pokemon in this tier are pretty damn slow, but that the tier is very physically based, with average base Attack being much higher than base Defense, while average base Special Attack is actually lower than base Special Defense. If anyone wants to draw anymore conclusions from these, you're welcome to.
 
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