Official Smogon University Simulator Statistics — August 2012

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I personally run focus sash and between setting SR and you can always find a good situation where you can hang to a sash to OHKO a Terrakion or the like. As you said, LO provides much of band power but with freedom.

Edit: Your team statistics show that BW2 doesn't suffer from imbalance, quite the contrary this is as about balanced as you can get. We should focus our efforts to remove mons that centralize the game and don't care about weather or team type like Genesect.
 
VarunR said:
Or perhaps not. Lightningrod Zapdos, and Volt Absorb Raikou are bound to be released sometime in the future, and I feel that then Jolteon's usage will take a dip.
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It's usage may decrease some, but Jolteon probably won't drop to UU. It'll get some stiff competition once DW Zapdos and Raikou are released, but outspeeding Dugtrio and Tornadus-T is a HUGE selling point.
 
@Antar

Yeah, I've always used Jolly LO Mamoswine and I find it has just enough power to do what I need and the extra speed and ability to switch moves means it actually finds opportunities to sweep surpringly often. Remove Scizor and weaken Skarmory, Rotom-W and faster foes that aren't weak to Ice Shard and suddenly Mamoswine becomes very hard to stop. The ability to switch moves is invaluable when you're stabs are Ice and ground, which have spectacular super-effective coverage but also have things that take absolutely nothing from them. It means that Mamo can stay in when it'd otherwise have to switch, and that means keeping momentum in your favor!
 
CB Mamoswine could definitely cost you a game. Ice Shard gives your opponent a perfect opportunity to switch into Volcarona, SD Scizor, Lucario. And there are some games where you make the wrong prediction and you lose all momentum. That's why I prefer LO. you might lose out on some power, but at least you don't sacrifice momentum.
 
one thing that might be worth mentioning about volt absorb raikou is that it wont have access to the event moves, this limits its abilities in the ou tier.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, someone, but I believe that more people use the non-event Raikou because that 115 base speed is extremely useful, instead of only being able to just outspeed base 100s with the Rash event one.
 
Chimpakt said:
CB Mamoswine could definitely cost you a game. Ice Shard gives your opponent a perfect opportunity to switch into Volcarona, SD Scizor, Lucario. And there are some games where you make the wrong prediction and you lose all momentum. That's why I prefer LO. you might lose out on some power, but at least you don't sacrifice momentum.
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That's why I love to use Expert Belt on Mamoswine. You fool the opponent in thinking that you are using Choice Band, and when they switch their Volcarona or Lucario, you destroy them with Stone Edge and Earthquake, respectively. This is assuming that they use setup moves rather than attacking directly, but not only you do not lose momentum, but also get rid of another problem for your team! Sadly, this does nothing to stop Scizor, but Expert Belt is a fairly effective item considering Mamoswine's great coverage with only it's STABs.
 
Ames said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, someone, but I believe that more people use the non-event Raikou because that 115 base speed is extremely useful, instead of only being able to just outspeed base 100s with the Rash event one.
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Definitely! Raikou's speed tier is one of his more dangerous aspects the speed drop done by using rash is not to his advantage, even more so with the drop down and popularity of Meinshao. Moreover, Raikou's more popular set at the moment tends to be sub-cm, so Aura sphere really won't be getting much use out of that set since it usually just carries Thunderbolt and HP ice as bolt-beam provides good SE coverage.
 
Dark Fallen Angel said:
That's why I love to use Expert Belt on Mamoswine. You fool the opponent in thinking that you are using Choice Band, and when they switch their Volcarona or Lucario, you destroy them with Stone Edge and Earthquake, respectively. This is assuming that they use setup moves rather than attacking directly, but not only you do not lose momentum, but also get rid of another problem for your team! Sadly, this does nothing to stop Scizor, but Expert Belt is a fairly effective item considering Mamoswine's great coverage with only it's STABs.
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I'm sorry but this is really one of those bluffs that should never work. Not only is there an enormous damage roll difference between the two sets, but focus sash endeavor Mamoswine is a very common set, significantly more common than CB. So yeah unless you get a OHKO that you couldn't have got without the expert belt, and the opponent notices somehow, then it shouldn't work. Also, Mamo gets great neutral coverage between its two stabs, but hitting stuff neutrally doesn't help much. EB goes well on pokemon with lots of coverage moves like Genesect, not Pokemon with unstoppable STABs.
 
I know that there is a difference. Obviously you aren't going to use Expert Belt on the Endeavor set when it's main draw is setting up Stealth Rock. For that you need to use Focus Sash. The main use of Expert Belt is to feign a Choice Band, but the lack of power on neutral hits can prove to be a letdown sometimes. The Life Orb is still the recommended item, I use Expert Belt solely because I can afford to sacrifice the power on neutral hits to fool my opponent.
 
Also I'd say that Superpower is far more useful in today's metagame than Stone Miss. The former gives you super-effective damage on Ferrothorn and Chansey/Blissey, whereas the latter is really only useful against Volcarona, who outspeeds anyway.
 
Dark Fallen Angel said:
I know that there is a difference. Obviously you aren't going to use Expert Belt on the Endeavor set when it's main draw is setting up Stealth Rock. For that you need to use Focus Sash. The main use of Expert Belt is to feign a Choice Band, but the lack of power on neutral hits can prove to be a letdown sometimes. The Life Orb is still the recommended item, I use Expert Belt solely because I can afford to sacrifice the power on neutral hits to fool my opponent.
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The point was that your opponent should never be fooled unless they are really, really, terrible. If a mamo takes no LO recoil it is probably assumed to be sash rather than band - you completely missed the point.
 
jc104 said:
The point was that your opponent should never be fooled unless they are really, really, terrible. If a mamo takes no LO recoil it is probably assumed to be sash rather than band - you completely missed the point.
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Well, forgot what I've said, you are right. What is happening is that this set was effective back on B1W1 when Superpower was illegal with Icicle Crash (and that's why everyone used Stone Edge) and the Focus Sash set wasn't the standard. Bulky Volcarona and Adamant Lucario were outspeed when Mamoswine was using a Jolly nature with max speed. This set wasn't really meant to be used as a wallbreaker; it was to get surprise kills on the opponent. It's gimmicky, but can be effective.

I forgot to explain this, sorry. Nowadays I don't know if this set is effective, because I never tried to use Expert Belt with Mamoswine.
 
Dark Fallen Angel said:
Well, forgot what I've said, you are right. What is happening is that this set was effective back on B1W1 when Superpower was illegal with Icicle Crash (and that's why everyone used Stone Edge) and the Focus Sash set wasn't the standard. Bulky Volcarona and Adamant Lucario were outspeed when Mamoswine was using a Jolly nature with max speed. This set wasn't really meant to be used as a wallbreaker; it was to get surprise kills on the opponent. It's gimmicky, but can be effective.

I forgot to explain this, sorry. Nowadays I don't know if this set is effective, because I never tried to use Expert Belt with Mamoswine.
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Focus sash set was never so much the "standard", but it's the most commonly used secondary set, and has been since mamoswine's introduction. Since E-belt, even assuming you hit SE, is still pretty close to sash in terms of damage (Equal if NOT se), most people with metagame knowledge would just assume it's sash, which causes a bluff condition i like to call "SE against stupid." Of course, stupid people aren't hard to beat in the first place. Not to mention that this is not the easiest condition to set up, because they've got to switch into ice shard in the first place.

And if you never tried to use e-belt with mamoswine, then what are you even talking about? If you're going to pimp out a questionable set, at least use it a few time.
 
tehy said:
Focus sash set was never so much the "standard", but it's the most commonly used secondary set, and has been since mamoswine's introduction. Since E-belt, even assuming you hit SE, is still pretty close to sash in terms of damage (Equal if NOT se), most people with metagame knowledge would just assume it's sash, which causes a bluff condition i like to call "SE against stupid." Of course, stupid people aren't hard to beat in the first place. Not to mention that this is not the easiest condition to set up, because they've got to switch into ice shard in the first place.

And if you never tried to use e-belt with mamoswine, then what are you even talking about? If you're going to pimp out a questionable set, at least use it a few time.
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You misunderstood what I've said. I've used the e-belt Mamoswine on B1W1, and it was effective. Now in B2W2, where I don't yet tried to use him, I don't know if that's effective. With Focus Sash as the most commonly used item, and now that Superpower is legal with Icicle Crash, it may be not as effective as it was in the past.

Note to myself: Never talk about sets that you used in B1W1 if they weren't tested in B2W2.
 
No, what you said was just incorrect. You literally said this: "Nowadays I don't know if this set is effective, because I never tried to use Expert Belt with Mamoswine. " NEVER means NEVER, not NEVER in this gen. Also, focus sash is STILL not the standard, and NEVER has been. Also, what does superpower being legal with ice crash have to do with it? You can still USE stone edge if you so desire, not to mention it would make stone edge legitimately surprising, INCREASING this set's usability.
 
But why you would use Stone Edge? It would serve only to defeat Volcarona and Gyarados, and the latter still outspeeds and defeats Mamoswine anyway, and Stone Edge otherwise has redundant coverage with Mamoswine's STABs. Superpower is much better as a user said above. It catches the pink blobs and things with Air Balloon. So, people will almost always prefer to use Superpower, especially considering the shaky accuracy of Stone Edge. Before the B2W2 tutors, people had to use Stone Edge because Superpower was illegal with Icicle Crash, and if you wanted to use Superpower, you had to forgo Icicle Crash for another Ice-type attack, but there aren't any good alternatives to Icicle Crash. Blizzard is a special attack and Icicle Spear is inconsistent.
 
Dark Fallen Angel said:
But why you would use Stone Edge? It would serve only to defeat Volcarona and Gyarados, and the latter still outspeeds and defeats Mamoswine anyway, and Stone Edge otherwise has redundant coverage with Mamoswine's STABs. Superpower is much better as a user said above. It catches the pink blobs and things with Air Balloon. So, people will almost always prefer to use Superpower, especially considering the shaky accuracy of Stone Edge. Before the B2W2 tutors, people had to use Stone Edge because Superpower was illegal with Icicle Crash, and if you wanted to use Superpower, you had to forgo Icicle Crash for another Ice-type attack, but there aren't any good alternatives to Icicle Crash. Blizzard is a special attack and Icicle Spear is inconsistent.
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I never said you would, but since it's now no longer standard, if you DID, it would be even more effective. So Superpower being available doesn't actually STOP you from using stone edge, and doesn't make E-belt any less effective, rather MORE, because even if they do suspect a bluff, volcas won't be expecting stone edge.

I'm quite aware of all the rest of the things you said, but they have nothing to do with what i'm talking about, except to reinforce it. I do like the misunderstanding of arguments and usage of strawmen, very effective!!
 
Im also seeing a shit-ton more of Alakazam, which is seen with its #30 place statistically. I am wondering why though, one would think that Tornadus and scaf-genesect would bring it down, but no. There could also easily be the "man its cool" factor for new people I guess, that explains why Charizard is oddly high.
 
I'm pretty sure alakazam outspeeds tornadus-t, and while i guess you could argue tornadus-t takes its role of "fast special attacker that's also hard to wear down", the extra power on other moves is nice, and with SR down, tornadus can still be worn down eventually, although it takes longer. It's also less weather-dependent, and the sash makes it a great check to just about anything.
Genesect does force it out, but then again it can be smacked with an HP fire or a focus blast. Sort of like scizor, except without that whole "pursuit" thing.
Well, never mind about the outsped thing, but still.
 
Alakazam effectively has 2 opportunities to deal major damage with sash provided no priority or faster pokemon. And Tornadus-T has a trollish base speed of 121 while Alakazam hits 120, so unfortunately Tornadus is faster.
 
| 17 | Crobat | 12480 | 10.797% | 10840 | 11.311% |

Now am I the only one who is surprised this piece of shit is so popular? If you ask me, Crobat is possibly the most overrated Pokemon in UU. Why hasn't he dropped to RU all this time? Now before I get any hate on this post, let me take some time to say this; I've used Crobat recently, and it was just so....Weak. That's all to say. Weak and pathetic. This piece of shit is so bad it's not even funny.

One negative aspect of Crobat is (this also applies to other Flying-types): Stealth Rock weakness. Every time Crobat switches in, he loses 1/4 of his health. I don't like that. Not when to make matters worse; Crobat has little to no offensive presence, not to mention his dismal movepool makes him walled real easily. That's bad. That's more than enough to offset the 130 Base Speed.

Also, his bulk is pretty average at best. It allows him to get KO'd easily by Zapdos and Raikou, two of the most dangerous Pokemon in the tier. Hell, I'm pretty sure I can beat this weak shit with a Scarf Froslass if I tried hard enough.

Now not only that..but Yanmega, Togekiss, and Honchkrow are simply better Flying-types in general. They have much more offensive presence, have better coverage, and have a niche that makes them good..Yanmega has Speed Boost and Tinted Lens, letting it either be fast, or unwallable. Togekiss's claim to fame is Parahax with Air Slash and Thunder Wave. Honchkrow can ambush things with Brave Bird and Sucker Punch. What does Crobat have to stand out? Nothing. So tell me, how has Crobat managed to stay UU this long? No really, when from my experience he's turned out to be an overall mediocre Pokemon. He is weak, pathetic, and lame. Everything Crobat can do, the other Flying-types do better. So why is Crobat the most popular of the Flying-types? Really.
 
Why use Crobat ? Just Heracross & Roserade ...Resists *4 MegaHorn, Close Combat, Leaf Storm, and Resists *2 Sludge Bomb. Faster than the 2 pokemon, nice stab and moveset (Brave Bird, Taunt, Roost, U-Turn for example)

A good anti metagame UU
 
Crobat is an excellent anti-metagame poke in UU-checking Scrafty, Mienshao and Heracross. If you need some more power, go with the CB set. Brave Bird is incredibly powerful-1HKOing Scrafty at +1. Crobat's main selling point is his excellent speed. Yanmega has an awful defensive typing, and is 4X weak to SR, and Honchkrow is no-where near as fast. Togekiss is a great stall-breaker, but still isn't capable of taking out Heracross or Mienshao like Crobat is. Crobat makes a great anti-lead, thanks to Taunt and U-turn.
 
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