Project Old Gen Hackmons Megathread

Official ORAS Hackmons Viability Rankings
Originally ran by Bahamut


Welcome to the ORAS Hackmons Viability Rankings. The goal of this resource is to provide an accurate ranking of used Pokemon in the metagame, and the most common abilities those Pokemon use. Pokemon ranked below A are ranked alphabetically within their tiers. Abilities in Bold are seen very commonly on that Pokemon and are considered staples. Abilities in italics are other abilities that one might need to prepare for or keep in mind if you see the Pokemon in team preview, but are not very common or are more niche.

Why Does Wonder Guard Get Its Own Viability Rankings?
Because of the immense amount of Pokemon that effectively use Wonder Guard, and due to a lot of the roles of said Pokemon overlapping while they run Wonder Guard, we thought it would be appropriate to rank every commonly used Wonder Guard user as well, and put it at the top of the VR.

Feel free to respond with Pokemon you think should be added, or sets that a Pokemon should have.

S Rank
S+
Wonder Guard
S
:beedrill-mega:
Beedrill-Mega
:xerneas:
Xerneas

A
:arceus:
Arceus
:audino-mega:
Audino-Mega
:blissey:
Blissey
:deoxys-attack:
Deoxys-Attack
:ferrothorn:
Ferrothorn
:kyogre-primal:
Kyogre-Primal
:mewtwo-mega-x:
Mewtwo-Mega-X
:sableye-mega:
Sableye-Mega
:slaking:
Slaking

B
:deoxys-speed:
Deoxys-Speed
:escavalier:
Escavalier
:gengar-mega:
Gengar-Mega
:groudon-primal:
Groudon-Primal
:manectric-mega:
Manectric-Mega
:ludicolo:
Ludicolo
:scizor-mega:
Scizor-Mega
:swampert-mega:
Swampert-Mega
:thundurus:
Thundurus

C
:cresselia:
Cresselia
:gardevoir-mega:
Gardevoir-Mega
:gyarados:
Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
:landorus-therian:
Landorus-Therian
:lucario-mega:
Lucario-Mega
:mewtwo-mega-y:
Mewtwo-Mega-Y

S
:giratina:
Giratina ......................... Prankster, Magic Bounce, Poison Heal

S-
:rayquaza-mega:
Rayquaza-Mega ........... Mold Breaker, Gale Wings, Aerilate, Shadow Tag
:mewtwo-mega-x:
Mewtwo-Mega-X ........ Huge Power, Shadow Tag, Wonder Guard, Mold Breaker
:gyarados-mega:
Gyarados-Mega ........... Huge Power, Poison Heal

A Rank
A+
:xerneas:
Xerneas ......................... Wonder Guard, Mold Breaker
:groudon-primal:
Groudon-Primal .......... Mold Breaker, Shadow Tag, Huge Power
:beedrill-mega:
Beedrill-Mega .............. Wonder Guard, No Guard

:audino-mega:
Audino-Mega ............... Wonder Guard
:chansey:
Chansey ........................ Imposter

A
:gengar-mega:
Gengar-Mega ............... Wonder Guard, Mold Breaker, No Guard
:diancie-mega:
Diancie-Mega ............... Pixilate, Mold Breaker
:slaking:
Slaking .......................... Shadow Tag, Huge Power, Wonder Guard
:kyogre-primal:
Kyogre-Primal .............. Wonder Guard, Mold Breaker, Magic Bounce


A-
:regigigas:
Regigias ........................ Shadow Tag, Huge Power
:sableye-mega:
Sableye-Mega ............... Wonder Guard
:latios-mega:
Latios-Mega ................. Mold Breaker, Protean
:blissey:
Blissey ........................... Wonder Guard, Imposter


Reminder that Pokemon after this point are ranked alphabetically~

B Rank
B+
:aegislash:
Aegislash ..................... Magic Bounce, Prankster
:arceus:
Arceus .......................... Wonder Guard, Mold Breaker, No Guard
:deoxys-attack:
Deoxys-Attack ............. Wonder Guard, No Guard
:escavalier:
Escavalier ..................... Wonder Guard
:ferrothorn:
Ferrothorn ................... Wonder Guard
:mewtwo-mega-y:
Mewtwo-Mega-Y ........ Shadow Tag, No Guard, Mold Breaker, Protean, Wonder Guard
:scizor-mega:
Scizor-Mega ................ Wonder Guard

B
:deoxys-speed:
Deoxys-Speed ............. No Guard, Wonder Guard
:dialga:
Dialga ........................... Mold Breaker, Magic Bounce
:gyarados:
Gyarados ...................... Wonder Guard, Magic Bounce, Prankster, No Guard
:ludicolo:
Ludicolo ........................ Wonder Guard
:manectric-mega:
Manectric-Mega .......... Wonder Guard
:registeel:
Registeel ....................... Magic Bounce, Prankster
:swampert-mega:
Swampert-Mega ......... Wonder Guard
:thundurus:
Thundurus .................... Wonder Guard

B-
:garchomp-mega:
Garchomp-Mega ........... Mold Breaker
:metagross-mega:
Metagross-Mega ........... Prankster
:tyranitar-mega:
Tyranitar-Mega .............. Mold Breaker, Huge Power, Poison Heal
:yveltal:
Yveltal ............................. Magic Bounce, Magic Guard, Regenerator
:zekrom:
Zekrom ........................... Mold Breaker

C Rank

:abomasnow-mega:
Abomasnow-Mega ........ Refrigerate
:cresselia:
Cresselia ......................... Wonder Guard
:gardevoir-mega:
Gardevoir-Mega ............ Wonder Guard
:ho-oh:
Ho-Oh ............................. Magic Guard
:kyurem-black:
Kyurem-Black................. Refrigerate
:kyurem-white:
Kyurem-White................ Mold Breaker
:landorus-therian:
Landorus-Therian.......... Wonder Guard
:lugia:
Lugia................................ Shadow Tag
:lucario-mega:
Lucario-Mega................. Wonder Guard


October 20, 2024
  • Fixed Xerneas being at top of A instead of top of A+ by accident
  • Imposter added as bolded ability for Blissey
  • Magic Bounce added as italic ability for Dialga
  • Regigigas added to top of A-
October 25, 2024
  • Moved Mega Beedrill in 3rd in A+, above Mega Audino. This change was to fix an inconsistency related to the WG VR.
  • Moved Mega Gengar to 1st in A, above Mega Diancie.
  • Moved Primal Kyogre to 4th in A-, below Slaking.
  • Made Wonder Guard a bold ability on Slaking.
Regarding the ORAS Pure Hackmons viability rankings, there's a lot of Pokemon I feel are missing and there's many of them who could reasonably serve a niche in the metagame strong enough to be worth ranking, however I'm mostly here today to propose just a few rank changes from the upper end of the viability rankings.

:groudon-primal: Primal Groudon: A+ -> S-
While its counterplay is quite effective at taking down Primal Groudon, the counterplay is highly limited and cannot fit into every team composition. When there's a lack of this counterplay, this Pokemon instantly becomes the most dangerous beast in the game to overcome and can easily overwhelm everything more effectively than either Mega Mewtwo X, Mega Rayquaza, or Mega Gyarados could otherwise. It should be worth mentioning that said counterplay could possibly be pressured and lost early on in games involving Primal Groudon, giving Primal Groudon a much easier time winning under the right plays. One could even per say run Shadow Tag with Fighting STAB, Fairy-type coverages, or any type of move Mega Gyarados is weak to, in order to get rid of it before Primal Groudon sets up a Shell Smash.

Primal Groudon is extremely important to answer in ORAS Pure Hackmons as not doing so renders this the most unstoppable Pokemon in the game imo and Primal Groudon will keep existing to show this. Despite that its best countermeasure by far is reduced to one particular Pokemon, Huge Power Mega Gyarados. The rest aren't as effective in the overall metagame and could add further liabilities to overall team compositions, such as Mega Abomasnow, Chesnaught, Ludicolo, and the likes. This Pokemon is broken and in a way that simply does not compare with the rest of the Pokemon within the A+ range but very easily does with the rest of S-. If this is ordered by viability, Primal Groudon should be the lowest S-, due to its ability to be easily shut down when having the right preparation, but if you lose that preparation early in the game or are unable to bring it, it's genuinely the biggest monster ORAS has to offer. Revenge-killing it is super difficult without that Gyarados as Primal Groudon is a tank who loves running King's Shield to neutralize Attack, and it can run an assortment of items like Lum Berry or Mental Herb to make Giratina frown. Being a tank makes it hard to even appropriately outspeed and KO Primal Groudon when it has x2 Speed x2 Atk and just 0.67x of what's base 160 Defense.

:slaking: Slaking: A -> A+
:regigigas: Regigigas: A- -> A
Shadow Tag fakespeed is absolutely ridiculous and is immensely effective at revenge killing the likes of Mega Mewtwo X and Mega Rayquaza, the two of the most major offense threats in the whole game. Most other attackers not named Primal Groudon or holding Wonder Guard really hate these guys as well as they cannot escape getting heavily chipped/knocked out by fake out + extreme speed. With Silk Scarf, one fakespeed already takes down Mega Mewtwo X or Mega Rayquaza unless they carry the rare King's Shield, but this sacrifices options for coverage or set up in a way that hinders their performance in some games.

I've been given many test games against Glory over the past couple of months and have realized how arkeis managed to reach 97.6 GXE using Regigigas in far more games than any other Pokemon he uses, to the point where it felt like he was carrying that Pokemon around religiously. Its ability to revenge kill the most dominant offense threats in the game and more, outside Primal Groudon and Wonder Guards really, provides these two Pokemon overwhelming effectiveness unlike anything seen in Pokemon below A- rank.

Slaking should still be separated from Regigigas if the base rank continues to include Wonder Guard, as Slaking serves a better role as Wonder Guard than Regigigas. Otherwise there isn't a large inherent advantage in running Slaking over Regigigas in the vast majority of cases.
 

My teambuilding process for my gen4ph Sand team​

Introduction​

Hai! i haven't made a non-resource post for gen4 in a while, so I thought I would take my current team and explain the process I went thorugh with creating and editing it. This post is going to be one of what I hope to be a series for gen4ph- a series where I try to explain how I approach and understand gen4ph, so that way others can (hopefully) learn the meta for themselves. With that being said, onto the first draft of my Sand team. It features Darkrai!

Note- this team is probably not going to become a sample. We already have a Sand team, and it still works to this day.

Drafts​

Draft 1- Darkrai Sand

:deoxys-speed: :bastiodon: :regirock: :ho-oh: :arceus: :darkrai:
This is the first draft, so my explanation is going to be a bit longer than the others.

:deoxys-speed:- My standard lead for most teams. Deoxys-Speed not only provides a lead but also provides a win condition in the case that Darkrai fails to sweep. Using Focus Sash on a Sand team was certainly a choice I made, though.

:bastiodon:- An alternate Sand setter to Probopass. It has an even slower pivot than Probopass, and trades some SpD for some more Def. I honestly don't know why I put Aromatherapy on this, but I didn't really realize it until my last draft. Spoiler alert: Bastiodon doesn't usually stay on the field for very long.

:regirock:- A Pokemon I had wanted to try for a while. It takes Fire Fangs very well with its massive base 200 Def, and gets a 1.5x boost to its SpD in the Sand (and its base SpD is already 100). I have seen this thing shrug off +6 Fire Fangs from Slaking before, but considering I'm also running an Arceus on this team, I should have ran a Swampert over Regirock so that way I didn't lose as hard to Huge Power Close Combat (which was a lesson I had to learn the hard way).

:ho-oh:- I badly wanted a sleep answer, so I chose Toxic Orb + Magic Guard Ho-Oh, a set I had been thinking about for a while. The idea is that since it can almost never be Spored, I can click Aromatherapy on it semi-freely to wake everything up. Psycho Shift lets me spread around Toxic, and U-Turn lets me punish a Latios trying to trap me. I made it Adamant for some reason, though (although it did come in handy once when I was U-Turning on a Latios).

:arceus:- Arceus needs no introduction. On this Arceus I ran a SubPass set I had been using for a while at this point on some other teams, and had quite a bit of success with it. Taunt is a surprise option that helps shut down any annoying mons reliant on their status moves, and it comes in handy almost every battle, even if the opponent knows it is coming. The main thing you want to SubPass to is Darkrai, so it can safely set up and start sweeping, but a SubPass to Deoxys-Speed could also work. This is the only set that received zero changes across all of the drafts.

:darkrai:- I'm not sure when I decided to add Darkrai, but the drafts of this team became how it proved itself to me. Darkrai serves as a Mold Breaker Rapid Spinner that can severely punish Ghost-types attempting to spinblock. It also serves as a wincondition for this team, becoming a sweeper with Nasty Plot. With +Spe you outspeed almost everything you want to, and a +2 Dread Plate Judgment hits rather hard. The main problem this Darkrai set has is that it slowly dies in Sand, but I fixed that in the next draft.

Draft 2- Copy of Darkrai Sand

:bastiodon: :regirock: :ho-oh: :arceus: :darkrai: :skarmory:
Time for my second draft! Here are the changes I made-

:bastiodon:- Deoxys-Speed was removed, and now Bastiodon is the lead. It usually switches out turn 1, though. Bastiodon now also has Stealth Rock over Spikes.

:regirock:- Replaced Protect with Magic Coat (so I could counter my own Wonder Guard Belly Drum Slaking set), and I replaced Baton Pass with U-Turn. That choice was (for some reason) reverted in the next draft. Mail was also given to Regirock so that way I don't lose as hard to TrickScarf leads, and even if they Baton Pass to something like a Shadow Tag Latios, Regirock can take a Seed Flare or a Focus Blast if it is in the Sand.

:ho-oh:- Was accidentally made Adamant in the original draft, so I fixed it (it is now Impish). A +SpD nature could also work.

:darkrai:- Swapped out Dread Plate + Judgment for Leftovers + Dark Pulse. Now it no longer slowly dies in the Sand! However, this comes at the cost of no longer OHKOing Latios at +2. For comparison-
+2 252 SpA Dread Plate Darkrai Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Soul Dew Latios: 398-470 (109.3 - 129.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Soul Dew Latios: 290-344 (79.6 - 94.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

:skarmory:- I found I was somewhat struggling against Fire Fang (especially from my own sample team), despite my Regirock, so I decided to run a Flash Fire set with my newly-freed teamslot. Rapid Spin allows me to clear hazards for a weakened Darkrai to come in and receive a Wish, Whirlwind denies setup, and Spikes was moved from Bastiodon onto this. If you can surprise a Fire Fang sweeper with the wrong coverage, you can set up a layer or two of Spikes before you have to Whirlwind them.

Draft 3- Tyranitar Sand

:bastiodon: :regirock: :ho-oh: :arceus: :tyranitar: :skarmory:
:tyranitar:- Only change I really made was swapping out Nasty Plot Darkrai for Dragon Dance Tyranitar. Tyranitar does the same thing Darkrai does, just with sweeping with Crunch and Dragon Dance instead of Dark Pulse and Nasty Plot. My justification for using Tyranitar was that it dealt more immediate damage and was immune to Sand. Unfortunately, I lost all of the benefits Darkrai had because of its speed, which means I now lose even harder to Huge Power + Close Combat.

Draft 4- Updated Sand

:bastiodon: :swampert: :ho-oh: :arceus: :darkrai: :skarmory:
This is the final iteration of my sand team.

I rebuilt part of this team to include a new win condition- Toxic Spikes. Now, even if my Mold Breaker sweeper faints, I can still pull off a win. Failing to sweep has lost me a game before, so having a second win condition is very nice. Also I finally realized I had Aromatherapy twice, and gave Bastiodon Taunt instead (still subject to change).

I noticed (with help from AV Cosmoem and NToTheN) that my Huge Power + Close Combat matchup was horrible. Both of my Wonder Guards couldn't last against it, and depending on the coverage, the rest of my team could be shredded.

:swampert:- Swampert was chosen to replace Regirock for a few reasons- it still resists Fire Fang and still has a Sandstorm immunity. Unlike Regirock, however, it is not weak to Close Combat, and its ONLY weakness is to Grass. This puts a Huge Power in a situation where they either have to sacrifice hitting one of my mons, or they can no longer set up. Leaf Blade/Power Whip is needed to hit Swampert, Close Combat is needed to hit Arceus, Thunder Punch is needed against Ho-Oh, and they need to run Fire Fang or else they lose the ability to hit very many Wonder Guards. This adds up to four moves, which means something has to go, whether it be coverage or a setup move.

:darkrai:- Darkrai returns to replace Tyranitar mainly because of its speed. It crucially outspeeds Infernape, which means I could theoretically pick it off after it takes quite a lot of chip and has some SpD drops from using Close Combat. For reference- 252 SpA Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. -1 252 HP / 252 SpD Infernape: 99-117 (27.8 - 32.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO. Flinches could also save my ass if I get lucky enough. Tyranitar also needs several boosts to start OHKOing things, whereas Darkrai only needs a single Nasty Plot to start OHKOing. Darkrai also doesn't need a boost to outspeed most things- base 125 Spe goes crazy. Since I'm relying more on Toxic Spikes now, I dropped Spore for Recover, so that way I no longer need to pass it any Wishes.

:arceus:- I gave Arceus Mail over Swampert because Swampert will be outsped and OHKOed by Seed Flare from Shadow Tag Latios. Arceus outspeeds Latios and can pivot out with Baton Pass, and can even take a Focus Blast or fish for misses with Substitute.

Conclusion​

This team was a lot of fun to make, and I feel like I learned quite a bit about the format while doing so. I hope this post is helpful for anyone trying to learn teambuilding in gen4ph. I also want to thank lag=bad, AV Cosmoem, and NToTheN for all of the help they gave to me and my team- the team would not have been nearly as good without you three.

Finally, I have no idea what the next post will be about, nor when I will have it ready.

Thank you for reading
-electra​
 
Hello everyone! I don't come here very often, and I was even MIA for the last few years due to drama from another community, but I wanted to share something that I've shared on the Pure Hackmons discord server that I don't think many people are aware of: In Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow, there is a save editor that lets you modify a Pokemon's typing, and more! Here is a proof of concept. I modified a Snorlax to be Ghost/Flying, ran it through a link cable battle, and this is what happens:

Snorlax_Hackmons.gif

As you can see, Snorlax is immune to both Earthquake AND Body Slam. It's pretty incredible, because I thought this was an in-game glitch that would only work vs Gym Leaders and trainers, but you can actually do this against other players via link battles.

Anyway, the program that lets you do this is called Pikasav, created by Ritchie / xJakub on github. It's out there on the internet and can be found via simple online search. The program also lets you modify a Pokemon's sprite, which means you can effectively build-your-own Pokemon, using a Pokemon's sprite, any pre-existing Base Stat spread, and choose whichever Pokemon typing combination you want.

IDK if this would be appropriate to mention, but I thought I'd mention it here. IDK if anyone here is responsible for Pokemon Showdown, but I think there is some level of interest to have this feature of Gen 1 Pure Hackmons accurately reflected on the Showdown servers (since this is technically within the ability of the Gen 1 mechanics and would be within the spirit of what Pure Hackmons stands for). It is unclear how much this actually matters... as I'm sure the Gen 1 PH playerbase is in the dozens.

If this were actually implemented in a tournament setting, I'm sure it would have a lot of interesting consequences. For example, some in the server have pointed out that this basically gives every pokemon immunity to Quick Attack. It also means that any pokemon can have a base speed stat of 140, and more interestingly, every pokemon has some form of Zoroark's Illusion ability (if we implement the sprite hack).

Let me know your thoughts. Thanks for reading,
-IS2L
 
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Let me know your thoughts. Thanks for reading,
-IS2L
This will be Balanced Createmons in 1998

Jokes aside, this is quite the development! So, here are some thoughts from someone way under-qualified

If I recall, isn’t it (supposedly) also possible to start pre-statused in a link battle? This is something not implemented onto showdown, and so it makes me wonder if the type changing will ever be added, either.

If both get added, this leads to some strange implications/impacts on the meta.
Spore becomes wildly less useful because of everything starting with a better status, rest becomes actively bad (especially when everything gets soft boiled), and I’m guessing Ghost/Normal runs amuck, with no weaknesses, two resistances (which don’t matter) and two immunities (of which only one - maybe two if counting HJK - matters, being normal)

Like mentioned, Every pokemon can look like another pokemon - this means that every pokemon will likely do this, to disguise what it is.

Most Pokémon probably run mewtwo stats, or something bulkier like snorlax/chansey, every fast special attacker prefers to start the match burned, instead of paralyzed, and hyper beam Ghost/Normals likely either start poisoned or start without status.

Finally - Psychics beware, for pin missile can be put onto multiple actually viable stat spreads, not just jolteon anymore!

Quick side note: please fact check what I have said here - I’m very unfamiliar with Gen 1 as a whole and probably got something very wrong

Quick question too: why would many pokemon be immune to quick attack? Is that just due to ghost being common or is there some other, more jank reason for it?
 
Quick question too: why would many pokemon be immune to quick attack? Is that just due to ghost being common or is there some other, more jank reason for it?
Pretty much this. I personally have never played Gen 1 PH tbh, but afaik quick attack is the only priority move in the game, so immunity to it would be incredibly valuable. Furthermore, Explosion is also a very common move that you might see on something like an electrode, so immunity to that is also incredibly valuable.

If I recall, isn’t it (supposedly) also possible to start pre-statused in a link battle? This is something not implemented onto showdown, and so it makes me wonder if the type changing will ever be added, either.
I have heard this as well, and it is a shame that this isn't implemented on showdown. From what I know, the reason nobody plays Gen 1 PH is because the best pokemon in the game is effectively Electrode with Spore and Seismic Toss/Night Shade. So when you give all 6 of your pokemon a pre-existing status (probably non-toxic poison, since that's the least harmful), spore becomes almost obsolete, which means the format might actually be a whole lot more balanced than it was.

I also heard that there is some glitch used w/ dig and paralysis, where if a pokemon is underground and cannot move due to paralysis on the turn it would attack, it becomes permanently invulnerable? So maybe that's an option too.

A few other things I want to mention: I have not tested the sprite exploit. I'll let everyone know if I ever get around to testing that, but it should in theory work where a pokemon's sprite can be assigned to a different pokemon's stat spread.

Another thing to note is that, even though the Snorlaxes in my previous post have a Ghost/Flying type, if you view the info on the Snorlax, it will still show up as "Type /Normal", even though mechanically it's a ghost/flying type. This shouldn't matter to your opponent anyway, as they will just see the pokemon sprite, but it's important for the purposes of your own knowledge if you forget what typing you gave your pokemon, or if this ever does get implemented on Showdown, the pokemon's typing should not actually be displayed.

Which brings me to my next point, that if the sprite exploit gets implemented, then you will never really know which pokemon you are actually battling, lol. It is kind of interesting, and if anyone reading this is interested in testing this stuff yourself, you are more than welcome to!
 
Thank you for the responses!
I also heard that there is some glitch used w/ dig and paralysis, where if a pokemon is underground and cannot move due to paralysis on the turn it would attack, it becomes permanently invulnerable? So maybe that's an option too.
Yes, and it’s actually the reason those moves are banned in RBY OU. Though, now im thinking spamming fly/dig on a pre para’d mon might make the meta actually less balanced. Unless you can force them to use dig again, or OHKO them before they move (unlikely considering they’re probably lax stats, making them quite bulky) (trode stats are a bait, halved speed moment), they just. Are immune to damage.
Expanding upon this, the only other counter is your own fly/dig mon, in which neither player wants to switch out, and as such the meta could devolve into PP wars. Makes me wonder if RBY BH Might be worth looking at instead, as a meta (though that’s getting off topic)
Another thing to note is that, even though the Snorlaxes in my previous post have a Ghost/Flying type, if you view the info on the Snorlax, it will still show up as "Type /Normal", even though mechanically it's a ghost/flying type. This shouldn't matter to your opponent anyway, as they will just see the pokemon sprite, but it's important for the purposes of your own knowledge if you forget what typing you gave your pokemon, or if this ever does get implemented on Showdown, the pokemon's typing should not actually be displayed.

Which brings me to my next point, that if the sprite exploit gets implemented, then you will never really know which pokemon you are actually battling, lol.
*Outside of Speed Tiers, and ignoring optimization
Like yes, idk if you’re running jolteon, mewtwo, or Aerodactyl. But i’ll be damned if anyone isnt running mewtwo stats over aerodactyl or jolteon, considering it hits harder than both in the respective stats and matches their speed.
 
Like yes, idk if you’re running jolteon, mewtwo, or Aerodactyl. But i’ll be damned if anyone isnt running mewtwo stats over aerodactyl or jolteon, considering it hits harder than both in the respective stats and matches their speed.
This I agree with. I think the main reason Gen 1 PH was not played at all was because it would come down to a coin flip as to which electrode would spore the other faster. But if we remove spore, and we give every pokemon normal-immunity, I can't really think of any reason to run electrode when mewtwo's stats are simply overall better.

And the dig exploit probably means you would want to be flying. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if every pokemon ended up being some sort of Ghost/Flying Mewtwo or Ghost/something mewtwo, just reskinned with a different pokemon sprite for aesthetics. Mewtwo ironically with an attack stat of 110 is probably also the best physical attacker in the game. Dragonite would also have a unique stat spread but I'm not sure if there's a good enough reason to run dragonite over mewtwo...

Makes me wonder if RBY BH Might be worth looking at instead, as a meta (though that’s getting off topic)
I actually think that, if hypothetically all the Gen 1 mechanics were accurately reflected in PokemonShowdown, one of 2 things would happen: The format would be incredibly fun to play and it brings people back to wanting to play Gen 1. Or it ends up being very monotonous/overcentralized and a Balanced Hackmons comes out of it, where Mewtwo would have to be banned, and maybe a species clause would have to be implemented.
 
I'm not sure if there's a good enough reason to run dragonite over mewtwo...
I’m going to keep this brief (this chat’s been quite lengthy already) but there’s one reason that i could maybe see: Slow speed makes crits less common. That sounds bad, until you realize that It makes it a way more viable swords dance user, as it won’t crit as often, and thereby wont nullify it’s own boosts.
Mewtwo is definitely the top dog though, hands down. Electrode could still be annoying with other disruptive options (fastest seismic toss around, outspeeds mewtwo stats and can probably do something if given opportunity to set up (with amnesia or something))
 
I'm just gonna sum up what i think about this here.

I highly doubt that they will ever implement this, or the ability to come into battle pre-statused/damaged (the clause preventing this is called cleric clause, and it exists for every rby format) because it's way too much work to implement something that only affects 1 format with like 2 active players (removing cleric clause technically affects every rby format but idk enough about them to comment).

Without cleric clause it would be a completely different meta so I can't comment on it too much, but no matter what you do there is always a bug or a stupid mechanic that will make gen 1 uncompetitive, such as wrap/bind/fire spin not allowing you to move while under its effect. However the biggest reason I can't comment on it much is because idk how the dig/fly glitch actually works.

EVERYTHING I SAY NOW IS ASSUMING CLERIC CLAUSE IS KEPT

This would obviously be a big deal, mostly the type changing, allowing you to become immune to both quick attack and fissure. Quick attack is one of the most common moves in rby ph because it allows you to hit your opponent before they can put you back to sleep with spore, allowing you to chip down their pokemon (probably just trode) and potentially force a second coin flip or just reverse sweep depending on the team. Making everything immune to quick attack removes pretty much all skill required in rby ph and makes it quite literally just a coin flip. The best type would likely be ghost/flying because it immunes both quick attack and fissure, with fissure being an option over seismic toss/night shade as your main attacking move. Seismic toss and night shade ignore type matchups, which means that now there will be very little reason to ever use anything else over them.

Not showing your sprite technically matters but it's whatever since this already kills team variety, and you can probably figure out what hp stat it's using after 1 seismic toss also every lead matchup is just trode vs trode so who cares if they know that it's a trode. Personally, I think the biggest impact this has will be allowing weedle to outspeed mewtwo, because weedle is simply the funniest gen 1 mon.

Gen 1 would likely go back to the pre-quick attack meta, where it was just trode + chansey which maximizes the odds of your opponent getting a gen 1 miss (moves in gen 1 have a 1/256 chance to miss, even if they're 100% accurate), because quick attack now does 0 damage. Chansey is used because it can take the highest amount of seismic tosses, since it has the most hp, and now fissure doesn't matter anymore because it's flying type.


I'm NOT the most knowledgable person on gen 1 pure hackmons, not even close, but I still thought that I would share my thoughts on this, because no one who knows more about it has commented yet.​
 
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DP
Pt Pure Hackmons Role Compendium
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Welcome to the DPPt Pure Hackmons Role Compendium. Due to the nature of Pure Hackmons, this role compendium will focus on the most viable Pokemon for each role, with the understanding that more niche Pokemon can still fill some roles. As always, if you think something should be added/changed, let us know! Evidence backing up your statements is always welcome. The placements within the roles are in alphabetical order.


Defense​

Flash Fire: :registeel: :scizor: :skarmory:

Magic Guard / Poison Heal / Unaware​

  • Magic Guard: :giratina: :ho-oh: :lugia:
  • Poison Heal: :aerodactyl: :cresselia: :giratina: :lugia:
  • Unaware: :cresselia: :heatran: :lugia:

Walls​

  • Physical: :arceus: :bastiodon: :giratina: :groudon: :metagross: :probopass: :registeel: :rhyperior: :scizor: :skarmory:
  • Special: :arceus: :blissey: :dialga: :giratina: :ho-oh: :latias: :lugia: :probopass: :regice: :registeel:

Toxic Spikes Absorbers: :ariados: :drapion: :gengar: :tentacruel:

Wonder Guard​

  • Fast Pivots: :arceus: :electrode: :gengar: :jirachi: :jolteon: :raikou:
  • Physically Defensive: :arceus: :bastiodon: :giratina: :gyarados: :metagross: :palkia: :probopass: :regigigas: :relicanth: :regirock: :slaking: :spiritomb: :suicune: :swampert:
  • Resists Fire Fang: :gyarados: :kyogre: :palkia: :regirock: :relicanth: :suicune: :swampert: :tentacruel:
  • Sandstorm-immune: :bastiodon: :dialga: :jirachi: :metagross: :probopass: :regirock: :registeel: :relicanth: :scizor: :skarmory: :swampert:
  • Specially Defensive: :arceus: :blissey: :dialga: :giratina: :kyogre: :regice: :regigigas: :regirock: :registeel: :spiritomb: :suicune: :tentacruel:

Offense​

Wallbreakers:​

  • Huge Power: :blaziken: :deoxys-attack: :weavile:
  • Mold Breaker: :deoxys-attack: :dialga: :groudon: :kyogre: :latios: :mewtwo: :rayquaza: :regigigas: :slaking:
  • No Guard: :aerodactyl: :arceus: :deoxys-speed: :electrode: :jolteon: :latias: :latios: :mewtwo:

Setup Sweepers​

  • Huge Power: :blaziken: :giratina-origin: :groudon: :ho-oh: :infernape: :regigigas: :slaking:
  • Magic Guard: :deoxys-attack: :giratina-origin: :ho-oh:
  • Mold Breaker: :darkrai: :dialga: :groudon: :latias: :latios: :mewtwo: :palkia: :rayquaza: :regigigas: :slaking:

Utility​

Hazard Removal​

  • Rapid Spin (non-Mold Breaker): :arceus: :deoxys-speed: :regigigas: :scizor: :skarmory: :slaking:
  • Mold Breaker Rapid Spin: :darkrai: :gengar: :giratina-origin: :latias: :latios: :mewtwo: :rayquaza: :regigigas: :slaking: :tyranitar:

Hazard Setters​

  • Spikes: :aerodactyl: :arceus: :bastiodon: :deoxys-speed: :dialga: :jirachi: :latias: :latios: :metagross: :probopass: :registeel: :skarmory:
  • Stealth Rock: :aerodactyl: :bastiodon: :deoxys-speed: :dialga: :probopass: :regirock: :relicanth: :rhyperior: :scizor: :swampert:
  • Toxic Spikes: :gengar: :jirachi: :palkia: :spiritomb: :tentacruel: :venusaur:
Disclaimer: almost anything that is not meant to be a sweeper or a Mold Breaker can run hazards

Trappers: :arceus: :groudon: :latias: :latios: :rayquaza: :regigigas: :slaking: :weavile:

Weather Setters​

  • Sun: :gliscor: :latias: :latios:
  • Rain: :latias: :latios: :metagross: :registeel: :scizor: :skarmory: :venusaur:
  • Sand: :bastiodon: :gliscor: :probopass: :registeel: :regirock: :rhyperior:
  • Hail: :cloyster: :regice:
 
Gen 1 PH!



Electrode puts the entire meta to sleep then beats them with damaging moves.

Use Spore. Then, Agility. Never use Agility again for the rest of the game. Use Spore again when they wake up. Use Chansey in the back, because it has the highest hp and has the highest chance for the miss if your electrode loses the speed tie in turn 1.

You can also try quick attack chipping the opposing Electrode every time you wake up if you lost the turn 1 speed tie and try to predict when they swap.



https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-gen1ubers-2298618607-56gtickm31psl58ebp2n6wi3gbmpp2xpw



Wonderful meta, a shame it isn't in PHPL... Leaders Electra and Test Rex, y'all don't know fun.




(Note: To newbies, please don't take this post seriously.)
 
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I highly doubt that they will ever implement this, or the ability to come into battle pre-statused/damaged (the clause preventing this is called cleric clause, and it exists for every rby format) because it's way too much work to implement something that only affects 1 format with like 2 active players (removing cleric clause technically affects every rby format but idk enough about them to comment).
Actually, this was successfully implemented on the now-defunct (?) rby.psim.us server. The way it worked was that the statuses were equipped in the item slot, which works out quite nicely because RBY has no items. Pre-damage would be more difficult to implement on top of that, but also it’s pre-damage so who cares.

Anyway, if someone’s able to dig up the code for the RBY server (or just rewrite it—I imagine the implementation isn’t too complicated for someone familiar with PS’s backend), it’d probably be possible to transfer it over to a maintained one like Dragonheaven, and RBY PH could be played without Cleric Clause there.

Don’t get me wrong, having played RBY BH I can say that this meta would be absolutely insane. Haze has extremely strange effects where it kind of cures the opponent’s status (I don’t even remember how it works), boosts are a lot less relevant than you think because of the cap being 999 and everyone being level 255, and many mechanics are extremely silly. It’s better than the current state of affairs, though. Next step obviously is implementing glitch moves.
 
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GSC PH
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i wanna shine some light on an underappreciated tier - gsc. this tier gets clowned on a lot because of the rng, mainly from people who want ph to be chess for some reason. but if you're in the know, you know it's one of the best ph gens. this post is gonna have 2 sections: one on the top 5 mons and one on everyone else. the top 5 section will have a lot more detail per mon, mainly cause the top 5 is a lot more diverse.


---The Top 5---
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big mewtwo is the reason for everything, easily best mon. its insane statline (tied for 2nd fastest mon, the best mixed offenses in the game, good mixed bulk) means it can run literally anything and be good. mewtwo can cover mus super easily cause there's no abilities and almost no good items, so if it wants to hit you super effective there isn't much you can do about it. you can run anything but im gonna showcase my fave sets. i'm also going to get the one big negative out of the way first, so bear with me for a bit.

:mewtwo:
Mewtwo @ Miracle Berry
Ability: No Ability
- Psychic
- Thunder / Blizzard / Hydro Pump / Sacred Fire / Megahorn / Cross Chop / Rock Slide / ...
- Thunder / Blizzard / Hydro Pump / Sacred Fire / Megahorn / Cross Chop / Rock Slide / ...
- Explosion

all out attacker, or boom2 as i call it. boom, especially boom2, is turbo broken and it's the only thing i don't like about gsc. the bulkiest non-resist, lugia, is gonna take 80-90% from boom2 and fat resists will take 45-50%. the fat resists do not want to scout mewtwo when it can always just run coverage for them. missy and gar also don't want to come in on boom because of psychic. even aero takes like 80%. the huge problem with boom is that this breaking power is not exclusive to boom2; anything with a decent attack stat can decide to 2hko the whole tier. the silver lining is that you CAN outplay boom with a resist or a fast sub. boom2, though, can chunk the resists and can outspeed everything trying to sub, so there's a high chance you just have to take the hit. the risk reward is so skewed in boom2's favor it's not even funny. worse, fast boom immediately ends the turn, so anything that took boom now has to immediately face another breaker after they're already weakened. it's of my belief that every team should bring a boom2, and i brought one every single game in my phpl set. i imagine the "optimal" gsc team is just spamming boom2 and trading the game down, but there's risk involved to such a team style since there's much more room to neutralize boom2 than, say, rby trode or adv slak.

:mewtwo:
Mewtwo @ Miracle Berry
Ability: No Ability
- Growth
- Psychic
- Thunder / Blizzard
- Spore / Substitute / Hydro Pump

growth2 is one of the best wincons cause +1 psychic 2hkos basically everything. thunder is to hit lugia, ho-oh, and aero, who growth2 wants dead as soon as possible. thunder's also really good for the mirror cause of the 30% para. you can run blizzard to goob grounds and celebi but you'll lose to ho-oh and do worse in the mirror. spore gives you growth turns and it's also really good for mirror. sub is generally one of the best moves on anything because it dodges spore and makes double ohko mons into setup fodder. pump hits grounds, ttar, aero, and ho-oh. it's also nice for mirror since it has more acc than thunder. there's a lot of less viable 4ths for growth2 like sacred fire, recover, and explosion but i just didn't bother mentioning them.

:mewtwo:
Mewtwo @ Miracle Berry / Leftovers
- Spider Web
- Perish Song
- Substitute
- Spore

trapsong mewtwo, or song2 as i call it. no shed shell means manual trap isn't a joke. this mon exists to neutralize other wincons. the main victims are double ohko, since you can sub on them, and growth boosters, since mewtwo is one of the best special tanks around. leftovers without sleep talk is risky, but it gives you more resilience vs double ohko if needed. the full trap sequence doesn't actually happen that often. song2 will find itself used more to get a fast psong or spore off for setup control. as setup control, song2 is pretty nice for anti-growth when you don't wanna lose to sub.

there are a lot of more sets for mewtwo. some examples are sub + horn drill, swords dance, and belly drum. but i think those sets are just worse than the ones i listed here, so i left them alone.

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consistency king. this mon's just. sooo bulky and it's faster than most stuff in the game. conveniently, it also resists the stab of the best mon in the game. not counting boom, there's very few unboosted attacks that 2hko lugia and it also survives most boosted hits. this means lugia is the best setup control you will find anywhere.

:lugia:
Lugia @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Horn Drill
- Whirlwind / Fissure
- Rest / Recover
- Sleep Talk

like mewtwo, lugia can run a lot of stuff. in fact, all of the good mons have like 10 sets that work, so don't take anything i say as a hard set of rules about what's viable or not. but for me, there's no doubt that this is the best lugia, and it's the one i run 9/10 times. horn drill is 100% the move over fissure cause there's a lot of top flying types, but both the usable ghosts are flawed. because ghosts are easily exploitable, running whirlwind is surprisingly more consistent than double ohko. because lugia can live most boosted hits, whirlwind is the best setup stopper in the game. whatever move you think ohkoes lugia, it doesn't. nothing without sub wants to boost on lugia due to the threat of horn drill. because so little moves can threaten lugia, it makes it an incredible scout. if your team has comfortable setup control already, then double ohko is an option to use ohko moves out of sleep talk more consistently and hit ghosts. double ohko lugia is a lot more of a wincon, but you can use it all game since nothing is immune to both ohkoes.

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incredible wincon with a really strong matchup vs the good mons in this tier, especially mewtwo, since lax walls growth2 for days and pressures + survives boom. due to really high bulk and attack, it can run a ton of roles well, making it really unpredictable, and just like OU it can wreck even the most prepared comps. also, don't run bonemerang + espeed lead lax because 1) it doesn't guaranteed kill trode and 2) anyone with a brain at least switches out after the bonemerang.

:snorlax:
Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Curse
- Double-Edge / Rock Slide
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

this set doesn't see much usage, probably because it's a rip from OU, but this is THE set to watch for. edge is stronger and usually better but slide hits more mons if you need that. mewtwo is basically useless against this thing, and it tanks + sets up on every offensive threat in the book. every team needs a good answer to it. the main strats are boom, phaze, and bulky resists with curse/ohko. but none of these are enough on their own. you'll need multiple to consistently answer curse lax, and even then it can always snowball. luckily curse lax answers are pretty easy to include since they often answer the metagame at large.

:snorlax:
Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Body Slam / Horn Drill
- Whirlwind
- Rest / Recover
- Sleep Talk

support lax is really underrated. spreading paralyze is really important, since so many games end up coming down to mewtwo / aero speed ties. similar to lugia, lax lives most boosted hits and phazes them right out. this set puts insane pressure on offense when you have spikes up, because mewtwo can't touch it and it phazes into them constantly. horn drill isn't as good as body slam but if you really hate fatty rocks and steels then you can run it.

:snorlax:
Snorlax @ Miracle Berry
Ability: No Ability
- Belly Drum
- Extreme Speed
- Explosion
- Recover

this set SUCKS!!!
i see this lax set the most, probably because it's the most "ph" set and because ransei advocated for it. i'm really not a fan of bd lax, it never sweeps cause most mons tank +6 espeed from full in this game. +6 espeed doesn't even ohko mewtwo after spikes. usually people run a coverage move over rest but there's genuinely no point, missy and gar are hard stopping you no matter what you run. recover is way better to avoid revenge killing. not rest since you don't want to get phazed. so in the end, the point of this set is to ohko normal resists with +6 booms. in other words, you put teams without ghosts in a really bad situation. in other words, you are doing literally what curse lax does but worse.
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best lead in the game, no questions asked.

:electrode:
Electrode @ Miracle Berry
Ability: No Ability
- Spore
- Spikes
- Substitute
- Baton Pass

it's hard to justify spin in this tier since every one of your 24 moves counts dearly, and several of your mons will probably be immune to spikes anyway. mewtwo also tends to run miracle berry over leftovers a lot. it is also obvious that offense will spam mewtwo. this means that spikes trode is one of the easiest ways to debilitate offense. but spikes are useful vs every team, even if they miss a lot of popular fliers. clicking spikes turn 1 is really easy because the only unboosted moves that ohko trode are boom and marowak eq / bonemerang. having the fastest spore and sub is also great to get momentum before the opponent, as well as for mid-game setup control. subpassing to a setup mon is a really great way to start the game off in your favor. i see some people running recover over spikes but i think spikes are too good to pass up.

:electrode:
Electrode @ Miracle Berry
Ability: No Ability
- Spore
- Spikes
- Thunder
- Recover / Growth / Explosion / Whirlwind / Perish Song / ...

this lead variant trades subpass for a fast and surprisingly hard hitting thunder. trode's thunder will do 40-45% to lugia and ho-oh, 75-90% to aero, and 30-35% to mewtwo which is really good for an unboosted move. it's particularly useful vs aero, whose offensive power actually goes toe-to-toe with mewtwo's, so having a revenge killer for it can give you a huge advantage. you can still click spikes turn 1 because nothing ohkoes you. there's a lot of options for the 4th but you're not clicking it most times, just use whatever you want.

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aero looks kinda stupid but do NOT be fooled. i'm not kidding when i say this mon does not have a single consistent wall. it also has an annoyingly good defensive profile that lets it take any non-rock phys hit, even boom. speed tying with mewtwo and rock slide's 30% flinch chance make this one a hax legend.

:aerodactyl:
Aerodactyl @ Miracle Berry
Ability: No Ability
- Swords Dance / Belly Drum
- Rock Slide
- Megahorn
- Substitute / Spore / Explosion / Earthquake

unless you run something ridiculous like donphan or poliwrath, aero is going to ohko / 2hko you. +2 megahorn ohkoes mewtwo after spikes which is one of the biggest reasons to get spikes up. mewtwo cannot ohko aero unboosted in return, though thunder and pump do tons and thunder has that nasty 30% para chance. aero is also the only good belly drum user. bd isn't really a good move in this gen cause your boosted hits just get tanked anyway, but aero is one of the rare mons that can ohko lugia at +6 with rock slide, making bd actually worth it. eq should only be used on bd, +2 eq doesn't do enough damage to beat curse lix. generally it's just really good against everything as long as you don't lose too many speed ties, you get it behind sub, or you paralyze the mewtwos beforehand.


---Other Guys Who Are Cool Too!---

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ho-oh's basically like lugia from temu. you mainly use this to tank blizzard from growth2 and to use fire stab.

:ho-oh:
Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Horn Drill
- Fire Blast
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

the big advantage to fire blast is destroying steels and breaking mewtwo's sub. because of sleep talk you also get a million pp on it. fire blast also lets you hit ghosts for good damage so you can afford mono ohko. ho-oh's way less consistent than lugia because of less defense + 4x weakness to maybe the best physical type in the game. but he's a crazy strong breaker so it's worth it to support him.

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ttar has an amazing dual stab and can actually dodge a majority of his weaknesses, so he's surprisingly consistent. if you fight pump mewtwo it's ggs though.

:tyranitar:
Tyranitar
Ability: No Ability
- Rock Slide / Horn Drill
- Crunch / Curse
- Rest / Recover
- Sleep Talk

ttar's mixed offenses are insane for gsc so rock slide hits like a bitch if you don't resist. crunch 2hkoes mewtwo after spikes, so crunch ttar matches up great into growth2 and even boom2 as long as they don't run pump. or cross chop, but that's pretty rare. curse ttar is awesome, he's like curse hp rock lax but you get stab on it. i would not recommend horn drill and curse together, but you can mix and match everything else.

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incredible physical blanket check and one of the best curse checks around. completely useless into mewtwo though.

:skarmory:
Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Horn Drill
- Fissure / Acid Armor / Hidden Power Steel
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

basically every time i run this i run double ohko and pray for no rock slide flinches vs aero, but if you run acid armor you can actually tank it when it's boosted, and you can also make sure lax and ttar don't snowball on you. i don't feel skarm is consistent enough to be relied on as setup control so i don't run ww or haze on it, but they're probably viable. hp steel beats sub aero but it's also really stupid.

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the most consistent aero wall around. doubles as a great curse check and boom absorb, and is better into mewtwo than skarm since it can tank unboosted non-pump hits decently well.

:steelix:
Steelix @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Curse / Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

it's hard to want to run curse on this mon cause it does no damage, but if you get rid of the pump mewtwos then nothing kills you. you can keep eq if you just wanna chunk mewtwo and ttar. one time i ran hp steel because i actually hate aero so bad.

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missy should suck but it's actually good. normal immunity is turbo broken, you can invalidate a lot of stuff like lax and hdrill ww resttalk lugia. the bulk is surprisingly decent because it's gsc.

:misdreavus:
Misdreavus @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Thunder / Shadow Ball
- Recover
- Haze / Encore
- Sleep Talk

this is not a mon you can slap onto a team, cause you get broken open too easily. instead you run it alongside other setup control like support lax and ww lugia, and you use those guys to bait booms for missy to absorb. sball seems better than thunder cause you 3hko mewtwo, but if you run it you can't spread para and you have to pp stall curse lax.

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a neat anti-lead to trode, since it's the only mon to ohko it with unboosted bonemerang. if you run this you have to have a spiker in the back though, usually your own trode.

:marowak:
Marowak @ Thick Club
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 26 Atk
- Swords Dance
- Bonemerang
- Rock Slide
- Sleep Talk

you need to lower your atk iv so you don't overflow at +2. this only works as an anti-lead because nothing wants to 1v1 it. at +2 it 2hkos the whole tier, and it can tank a hit or two. in fact, its bulk is just high enough to live an unboosted pump from mewtwo. this thing is not consistent cause spore is a lottery and if sleep talk makes you boost over +2, you overflow and have to switch out.

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outspeeds lugia and 2hkos with unboosted thunder, which is honestly enough of a reason to pick it.

:raikou:
Raikou @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Thunder
- Surf / Substitute
- Rest / Recover
- Sleep Talk

thunder / surf coverage is basically impossible to wall longterm outside of lax. considering it outspeeds everything relevant except mewtwo / aero / trode, it's a good revenge killer. it's especially good after boom2 blows up cause it can 2hko a lot of stuff and it does really well into boom absorbers. substitute is to dodge ohko and capitalize on switches.

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big fan of this guy. it can sit on a lot of the curse users it walls growth2 using only thunder / pump as coverage moves, which are its best coverage moves imo. if only aero didn't run megahorn on every set, it would wall that too...

:celebi:
Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Spider Web
- Perish Song
- Recover
- Sleep Talk

celebi's stab combo is terrible for killing stuff so trapsong is the most consistent way to beat curse and growth boosters. celebi isn't fast enough to forgo sleep talk like song2, so it has to buckle down and hope that they didn't boost too much before it starts the trap. luckily, celebi is good at taking boosted hits from its targets.

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this mon would be really good if it was pure ghost but gsc poison is the worst type ever. you fold to mewtwo and you can die to random eqs from aero lix and the gang. it's still decent because it's a ghost with 110 speed and you really can't be bad with that combo.

:gengar:
Gengar @ Miracle Berry
Ability: No Ability
- Sacred Fire
- Thunder
- Encore
- Substitute

if you're gonna use this over missy you have to take advantage of the speed and special attack increase to spread status around. the burn and para combo makes it hard to switch into, especially with encore. substitute is only really there so you can capitalize on forced encore switches. growth isn't a good idea since mewtwo sends you to hell.

don't limit yourself to the mons i posted about or the sets i showcased them with. there is room for a lot of diversity in this tier and limiting yourself is never a good idea in a tier with endless possibilities. limiting yourself is actually never a good idea, but it's an even worse idea here. so let your creative mind run free! :altaria-mega:
 
SS teamdump: https://pokepast.es/4646773c6f63d211
(Most of these are unoptimized/were speedbuilt but the structures are solid)

Notes on the new (no Sub Eternamax) metagame:

- In general the meta is more centralized than before. Sub Eternamax was a balancing factor against other would-be broken mons and is departure means offensive counterplay is actually feasible against the Sub users in the format
- Zacian-C is the clear #2 in the format imo, with a sizable lead over Regieleki (which I consider to be #3). The overall best set is Sub/DIB/Bolt Beak/Fissure, though Glory likes Jungle Healing over DIB and you can run Comatose/Shadow Tag as alternative Abilities
- Regieleki is still broken with the usual Sleep/Bolt Beak/Fissure/hazard lead and variants of that set. Glacial Lance over hazards is viable, and you can run Shadow Tag as an alternative Ability over Neutralizing Gas
- Cramorant-Gorging, Giratina, and Lando-T are the next best mons. The combination of these 3 handles opposing Zac-C acceptably well, and you can sack one to OHKO and still have Fissure/Horn Drill switch-ins. If Giratina's the Magic Bouncer Lando can run Wonder Guard (good vs opposing Bouncers/non-NGas Zac-C/Eternamax) or Comatose (reliable vs. non-Ice move Regieleki)
- Aromatherapy/Heal Bell remains difficult to fit, but is particularly justifiable on WG Lando-T
- Shadow Tag cheese is more dangerous than before, and you need careful play in-game regardless of prep due to innate trapping not self-revealing against Neutralizing Gas users. Reasonably bulky Ghost-types (preferably with Spectral Thief/Whirlwind) should be enough though
- For related reasons, Shed Shell is the best item on non-Ghosts/Bounce/Zac-C imo (even on Cramorant)
- The best overall comp imo is Zac-C/PhysDef Eternamax/SpD Eternamax/Cramorant-Gorging/Landorus-T/Giratina. This 6 collectively handles opposing Zac-C, OHKO, Regieleki, most Neutralizing Gas sweepers, and STAG cheese well enough (might need Shed Shells though)
- Spiritomb/Yveltal are viable but significantly worse than before imo. Zac-C means Giratina's bulk is more highly appreciated than before, and Zac-C generally functions well enough as a StoredTrip sweeper check
- Scarf Zac-C is still kinda mid, might become better with time as Regieleki stop having consistent defensive checks via slotting Glacial Lance though
- NGas sweepers are about as niche as they were before – while they no longer have to contend with Sub Eternamax, Zac-C's defensive utility is about as troubling for them. For similar reasons, SubPass remains bad (except maybe on Zac-C) unless paired with STAG cheese in a good matchup. Shell Smash Caly-S/Indeedee specifically may be usable due to generally less common Dark-types (thanks to Zac-C) but are still fundamentally a matchup fish
- Lava Plume Eternamax is viable again. Thunder Cage is also nice in theory but if you want a reliable Spinner that can also break Zac-C's Substitute, you'd need all of Thunder Cage/Lava Plume/Rapid Spin/OHKO. This makes individual Spinners not individually completely effective, though you can mitigate passivity issues with Cram
- Sheer Cold is viable but not really worth using outside of Ice-types imo. 20% vs. 30% is a huge difference. Eiscue hasn't really gotten worse imo so I rate it higher relative to everything else than before as the meta's gotten more top-heavy

Eternamax Rank
Eternatus-Eternamax

S Rank - [Tip: Consider these on most if not every team.]
S
Zacian-Crowned

A Rank - [Tip: Consider these on plenty if not most of your teams.]
A+
Regieleki
Cramorant-Gorging
Landorus-Therian
Giratina

Everything below A+ is niche. HUGE difference between A+ and A

A
Spiritomb

A-
Eiscue
Calyrex-Shadow
Yveltal

B Rank - [Tip: Usable but difficult to pull off effectively.]
B+
Drifblim
Kyurem-Black
Regigigas
Zapdos

B
Articuno
Giratina-Origin
Grimmsnarl
Indeedee
Urshifu

B-
Ho-Oh
Rayquaza
Zarude
 
DPPt team dump from phpl:



Week one, against NToTheN



https://pokepast.es/537ce7a98becdcca

:Umbreon: :Suicune: :Rayquaza: :Latios: :Arceus: :Palkia:



https://pokepast.es/fb48ed780b7d11b1

:Aerodactyl: :Arceus: :Swampert: :Latios: :Palkia: :Dustox:



https://pokepast.es/35b5bd4a7840f70c

:Latias: :Infernape: :Regigigas: :Palkia: :Dialga: :Swampert:



These were the first teams I built for this tier ever and ultimately I was not prepped for huge power coverage mons.



Week 2, against Highlord:





https://pokepast.es/8423d4421c30f5b6

:Umbreon: :Suicune: :Latios: :Arceus: :Deoxys-Attack: :Regigigas:



https://pokepast.es/9be452b68517300a

:Probopass: :Aerodactyl: :Darkrai: :Skarmory: :Swampert: :Giratina-Origin:



https://pokepast.es/6ef597fcfd524ea2

:Scizor: :Arceus: :Rayquaza: :Arceus: :Deoxys-Attack: :Dialga:



I just remember thinking that I really wanted to resist normal attacks against Highlord so I ended up building a sand team and some other general teams.



Week 3, against Tony



https://pokepast.es/d8f963e8cc7de471

:Giratina-Origin: :Giratina-Origin: :Latias: :Gyarados: :Rayquaza: :Deoxys-Attack:



https://pokepast.es/db9d74eb9a8cb286

:Deoxys-Speed: :Skarmory: :Hariyama: :Deoxys-Attack: :Blissey: :Giratina:



https://pokepast.es/d2c18208cd9607f3

:Aerodactyl: :Arceus: :Tentacruel: :Latios: :Deoxys-Attack: :Registeel:



I had prepped for Blahpy and ended up against Tony who I had an amazing mu against in game 1 but had horrible matchups the next couple games. The double tina team is probably my favorite team I’ve made for this tier tho.



Week 4, against Planet:



https://pokepast.es/09f6384cc2664441

:Arceus: :Spiritomb: :Palkia: :Gyarados: :Latios: :Latios:



https://pokepast.es/ea26b9cd85876605

:Giratina-Origin: :Giratina-Origin: :Giratina-Origin: :Slaking: :Deoxys-Attack: :Gyarados:



https://pokepast.es/ac5bdd3433492ec2



:Deoxys-Speed: :Regigigas: :Palkia: :Swampert: :Arceus: :Latios:





I wanted some very offensive teams this week but I ended up playing terribly.



Week 5 against Highlord:



https://pokepast.es/7ab3369232d494ea
:Giratina-Origin: :Giratina-Origin: :Giratina-Origin: :Slaking: :Deoxys-Attack: :Gyarados:


https://pokepast.es/a8b8406e0f2b8f30
:Spiritomb: :Deoxys-Speed: :Rayquaza: :Arceus: :Tentacruel: :Aerodactyl:


https://pokepast.es/14cb7dce10f1f4bd
:Darkrai: :Jirachi: :Kyogre: :Arceus: :Regigigas: :Deoxys-Speed:


This week genuinely made me mald with the long sleep turns and the raw sheer colds connecting but I also didn’t play well and ultimately lost. MY motivation was pretty low this week which shows with me basically reusing one of my week 4 teams.



Week 6 I had Ransei build me two teams but I ended up accidentally taking a nap and missed the game. I did build one team for this week tho.



https://pokepast.es/7aa2449b2226c8bc
:Aerodactyl: :Regigigas: :Regigigas: :Deoxys-Attack: :Tentacruel: :Giratina-Origin:



Really fun tour, big thanks to Ransei for providing me support with my teams and big thanks to Electra and Rex for hosting this tour.
 
Hello! PHPL has given me a chance to spam use a team... Alright, straight into it.
Sample submission :p
https://pokepast.es/4b01b9aa68933889

Successor (Thundurus) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 100 HP / 160 SpD / 248 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Substitute
- Chatter
- Baton Pass


The reason I went for this EV spread was to beat MRay:
252+ SpA Rayquaza-Mega Oblivion Wing vs. 100 HP / 160 SpD Thundurus: 92-108 (28.3 - 33.3%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO
248 Speed with Timid has reached the "352" stat tier, which is faster than MLatios that can abolish it with a single Protean Freeze Dry.
This set has proven to be very good against mons like Giratina (Taunt shuts it down), and people generally don't run Ice/Rock coverage on their HP/Priority mons, allowing Thundy to safely swap in every time after their Mold User is down.
As seen in this battle: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen6purehackmons-819862
Thank you lag=bad for thinking of this mon when I was thinking of WG Pdon.


Boss Battle (Rayquaza-Mega) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Mold Breaker
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 92 HP / 252 SpA / 164 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Oblivion Wing
- Earth Power
- Dark Void




The only sweeper in this team, 164 Speed, is fine for most of the meta threats. Shed Shell prevents it from getting chipped in the Stag Slaking or getting OHKOed by a Stag Ice Punch MMX. This can core break loads of teams if they do not prep well for it, especially because it can set up with no defense downsides, unlike Shell Smash. MRay is the best Pokémon (imo maybe even better than Giratina), and it should be in any team that can only fit 1 Mold Breaker. After week 2, I changed Sub to Earth Power, mainly due to the fact that Probopass and Aegislash are seeing a bit of use to counter Mega Ray. I also secretly brought Chatter > Void in one of my games due to the fact that DVoid keeps missing.


Iron Patrol (Registeel) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Baton Pass
- Chatter
- Whirlwind
- Recover



My team clearly struggles against Rocks, as seen from my dual flying types. If people try to send in their Mold Breaker and be greedy on Registeel, they will be immediately punished by Whirlwind. This is mainly my MRay check; Chatter also provides decent pressure on their set up mold users.


Ransei (Audino-Mega) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soft-Boiled
- Aromatherapy
- Defog
- Chatter


I just needed a WG left. MAud, as much as I hate saying it, is the best Wonder Guard in the entire generation. It does not stack weaknesses with Thundurus and Registeel and can also Chatter when it is taunted by mons like Mbee, which then forces them to swap.



KILL THE CODE (Gyarados-Mega) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ice Shard / Gear Grind
- Water Shuriken
- Beat Up
- Pursuit


I needed something to deal with Primal Groudon. The only sensible answer would be PRIM SEA swadloon! I mean, Mgyarados, with Beat Up + Ice Shard, can take out Prankster Giratina (being faster helps). Just Pursuit it and kill it when it swaps. I used Gear Grind once against Iguana because he seems to like using WG Deer. 96 Speed on Gyarados basically guarantees it to outpace any Speed-Creep Aegislash/Giratina.



Overlord (Mewtwo-Mega-X) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 Atk / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Ice Punch
- Close Combat
- Surf


I gave it 212 defense to tank moves from other MMX and revenge with DAscent or just tank some random moves. From the replay shown above, this MMX tanked a Sacred Fire from a Shell Smash-ed Pdon, which saved the game. Ice Punch traps the usual Sky Plate MRay and OHKOs it with Ice Punch. Close Combat punishes WGs like Arceus and Blissey that choose to run Goggles/Lefties. Surf under Naughty nature OHKOs Pdon no matter what.

This team has very good synergy and worked really well in PHPL.

Thank you, users Ransei, lag=bad, Hallward and Aerobee for helping me improve this team.

Max for helping me with other teams,
Test Rex, Electra for hosting.


Farewell.
 
Last edited:
Posting a "brief" guide to ORAS PH I wrote for mayopockets at the start of PHPL Week 6 to introduce them to the metagame.

General Description of ORAS PH

This meta most fundamentally revolves around Wonder Guard (WG), since you can't viably bypass it without Mold Breaker (Struggle exists but is unviable). However, it also revolves around No Guard to a lesser extent. Rule 1 of ORAS PH: you (almost always) need 2 Wonder Guards that aren't weak to Ice, since No Guard OHKO moves KO everything viable without Wonder Guard (WG), and they usually run ability removal (Gastro Acid). Fissure exists so being weak to Ground is also bad but you can pair with a Flying type and No Guards will only rarely run 2 OHKO moves (opportunity cost is usually too high), so not impossible to justify. You'll also want your Wonder Guard to not be weak to common coverage, since as I'll explain later coverage spam is one of the most potent means of making progress. 2 Wonder Guards is usually optimal – any more and you run into role compression issues.

What do Wonder Guard users like to run? The four main set types are support (typically Defog, a support move like Chatter, Whirlwind, or hazards/Aromatherapy or anything in moveslot 1/Baton Pass, Parting Shot, or anything in the previous 2 moveslots/recovery), SubPass or SmashPass (Substitute or Shell Smash/Baton Pass/2 of hazards, misc. support, Dark Void, Chatter, and Taunt), utility (the most common being Taunt/Chatter/hazards/Gastro Acid), and offensive. Basically every team wants at least one support WG, since basically all teams want Defog and most want Aromatherapy – other hazard control methods are unreliable and spreading impactful status is relatively easy. Sub/SmashPass can support Mold Breaker sweeper teammates (more on that in a bit), and SubPass can form chains with teammates that happen to DryPass for pivoting. Utility sets can act as a wincon by setting hazards and rendering opposing support sets ineffective with fast Taunt. Offensive WGs either complement another mon of the same species on coverage spam archetypes (more on that later), in which case they run either 4 attacks or 3 attacks + hazards, or act as a sweeper/wincon on their own, in which case the set is usually Shell Smash + 3 coverage moves. The latter is fundamentally a matchup fish and I'd avoid relying on it as your sole progress maker. Support Wonder Guards are typically bulky and run minimum Speed if they have pivoting, Xerneas and Mega Gengar are the most common Sub/SmashPassers (a bunch of less common examples also exist, feel free to ask), Mega Beedrill and Thundurus are the most common utility WGs (again, other niche examples exist), and anything with a good WG typing (not weak to much/usually isn't Ice-weak) and good attacking stats can function as an offensive WG.

One really weird viable WG set is Level 2 Mega Sableye with 15 raw HP, Flame Orb and Psycho Shift/Curse/Pain Split, which can annoy or potentially solo teams without a means to hit it.

The classic No Guard set is Sheer Cold/Sing or Spore/Gastro Acid/Stealth Rock. This takes advantage of No Guard OHKO forcing Wonder Guard in (and therefore forcing Magic Bounce users out), setting hazards, and spamming Gastro Acid to force chip on the opposing WGs and potentially force mindgames. You can also run No Guard SubPass (Sheer Cold/Sing or Spore/Substitute/Baton Pass) to pass to an offensive teammate, though I haven't seen other players run this set very much even though it's potent.

Rule 2: Don't lose to Shadow Tag. Most elements you can outplay or mostly mitigate in-game even with a bad matchup, but not innate trapping. Unfortunately the only reliable preparation in the builder is Ghost types or Shed Shell, so you'll be seeing the item on Wonder Guards and non-Ghost Magic Bounce users a lot. Any support mon that doesn't have some means to escape Shadow Tag (Ghost typing, Shed Shell, the combination of Shell Smash + Baton Pass) is inherently inconsistent. Any offensive mon vulnerable in that way is also inconsistent without adequate support.

Now let's go back to Wonder Guard. The main two ways to offensively threaten Wonder Guard are by spamming strong enough coverage or threatening with offensive Mold Breaker users to ignore the Ability.

The first takes advantage of the fact that you only need 8-9 coverage moves to threaten every Wonder Guard in the game – this means you can pair two of the same mon (usually Mega Mewtwo X (MMX) but can be other mons as well) with different coverage moves on each, and as long as their HP% are the same you'll keep the opponent guessing. Physical coverage spam abuses Huge Power to either OHKO foes with SE coverage or be able to run moves w/ convenient secondary effects (for example, Thousand Arrows over Precipice Blades for 100% accuracy and to hit Air Balloon Electric-type WGs). Special coverage spam is less potent due to the lack of a special Huge Power equivalent, but it does offer Freeze-Dry as a potential coverage move and faster/bulkier abusers like Mega Mewtwo Y/Mega Latios (which is affected by Soul Dew). Besides pairing two of the same mon together to essentially construct one attacker with perfect coverage, you can also fish with Wonder Guard sweepers (Shell Smash with 3 coverage moves), though they're less consistent overall because you don't want two Wonder Guards weak to the same attack.

Now, the second approach involves just breaking stuff with Mold Breaker. Two approaches: setup (usually with Shell Smash as the setup move and a disruption move like Dark Void or Taunt), or with a Choice item. The first is generally better because Mold Breaker Dark Void is unblockable without situational moves like Magic Coat or inconsistent defensive counterplay like Poison Heal (remember, defensive non-Ghost without Shed Shell = inconsistent). Shell Smash is usually the setup move of choice because +2 offenses/Speed in one turn is crazy, but some Mega Rayquaza sets specifically might opt for Quiver Dance instead. Glory and I have tried Belly Drum Primal Groudon before as well but that's otherwise nonexistent. The ones to watch out for are Mega Rayquaza (Dark Void/Substitute, King's Shield, or Ground coverage/Shell Smash or Quiver Dance/Oblivion Wing) and Primal Groudon (Dark Void or Taunt/Shell Smash/Thousand Arrows/King's Shield, Extreme Speed, or niche options like Ice Shard/Recover/Substitute), though other less potent setup Mold Breakers also exist. Choiced Mold Breakers, in contrast, hit harder without setup but are also more susceptible to revenge killing (particularly by Shadow Tag and Huge Power Pursuit; more on the latter later). The most common one is Choice Band Primal Groudon (V-create/Thousand Arrows/U-turn/Extreme Speed, Pursuit, or Ice Shard), but Choice Band/Specs Mega Rayquaza (STABs/Fire coverage, Extreme Speed if physical, or Chatter if special/U-turn or Volt Switch) are also viable. You might see people run other Choiced Mold Breakers but they either struggle to break or are overly susceptible to revenge killing imo.

So how do you answer offensive threats? Prankster Giratina is the best mon in the game because you survive hits from Choiced Mold Breakers acceptably well, can lock setup Mold Breakers into inconvenient moves with priority Encore, and are innately immune to Shadow Tag (so you can run items like Leftovers or Safety Goggles to improve various matchups). Against coverage spam, you can also infer what coverage moves each mon has (and crucially, which Wonder Guards they can't hit) with smart switching. Worst case scenario, if you're Destiny Bond and aren't asleep you can trade with opposing attackers. Imposter Chansey (which keeps its HP and Eviolite boost even after Transforming, so can force most offensive mons out if healthy) is also great for scouting and a decent check to most Mold Breaker users. However, there are two problems with these approaches. One is Dark Void being unblockable – Prankster Giratina or Imposter can just get lucked by Sleep in a 1v1. The second is mon specific. Giratina is unable to safely switch into Mold Breakers with a favorable matchup into it, like Mega Latios or Mega Diancie, and is vulnerable to Pursuit trapping from Huge Power Mega Gyarados if the trapper has a Lum Berry intact or Giratina isn't Spore/Will-O-Wisp. Imposter might just not prove to be reliable, due to various Imposter-proofing methods like Plate + Judgment or simply having defensive checks to their own sweepers.

You'll see people spam resists to common Mold Breaker mons in an attempt to beat them – this is bad. These types of teams lose to unconventional Mold Breakers, and are inherently a matchup fish.

This means (close to) every good team has robust revenge killers that can preferably eat a hit if a hard switch is necessary. The most viable priority revenge killer is Huge Power Mega Gyarados with Pursuit/Sucker Punch or Beat Up/Water Shuriken/Beat Up, Spore, Ice Shard, Stealth Rock, Gastro Acid, etc, though Shadow Tag Slaking/Regigigas (Fake Out/Extreme Speed/Low Kick, Encore, or Taunt/Spikes), Gale Wings Mega Rayquaza (Chatter/Oblivion Wing/Taunt [if Sky Plate] or Trick [if Choice Specs]/Spikes or Baton Pass), and Pixilate Mega Diancie (Fake Out/Extreme Speed/Pursuit, Boomburst, or Spore/hazards or Gastro Acid) are very common. On coverage spam, Huge Power users can also run priority that's strong enough to be impactful. Choice Scarf Shadow Tag (STAG) users are good non-priority revenge killers, but should usually be paired priority revengers imo. The best ones are Primal Groudon (V-create/Thousand Arrows/misc. coverage or Spikes/Trick) and MMX (Low Kick/2 misc. coverage/misc. coverage or Trick), but you might occasionally encounter some other offbeat Scarf STAGs (they're not good though). Besides those, Choice Band Mold Breakers can run priority as previously mentioned, but they require opposing offensive mons to be weakened to KO.

Stealth Rock is close to necessary imo (and Spikes are also high value). The most common hazard users are revenge killers, disruption/utility WGs, and support WGs, though occasionally Mold Breakers might run the move instead to bypass Magic Bounce.

Ghost-type Magic Bounce SubPass (Substitute/Baton Pass/Curse/recovery with Leftovers) is also common and good, as Prankster Giratina cannot force you out via Encore (Curse is still annoying though), you can check miscellaneous defensive mons, and you can Ghost Curse the opponent to semi-reliably make progress. The main two mons are Giratina and Aegislash. Best on coverage spam offense imo, since physical variants can compress priority and strong coverage into singular sets, reducing the opportunity cost that Magic Bounce often has on offense of having to forgo a Prankster user. Can run the same set on Mold Breaker balances as well, though it faces competition from Prankster Giratina. (Semi)stall also basically requires Magic Bounce (usually a Steel-type, to complement Prankster or Poison Heal Giratina) imo because Defog alone is not going to win you hazard wars. On that archetype, instead of SubPass you'd run recovery, misc. utility, and typically and attacking move.

To summarize:

- In-game, offensive mons tend to set the tempo in this meta
- Offense (NOT hard HO), balance, and stall are all potentially workable in a tournament setting
- Every consistent team has 2 Wonder Guards that aren't Ice- or Ground-weak (or 1 Wonder Guard that's neither Ice- or Ground-weak, 1 Ground-weak and a Flying-type teammate)
- No Guard users can run Gastro Acid + Stealth Rock to attempt to force progress or Substitute + Baton Pass to function as support
- Every consistent team also adequately preps for innate trapping (Shadow Tag)
- Basically every team wants at least 1 support Wonder Guard; essentially every team wants Defog and most teams want Aromatherapy
- Fast Utility WGs are difficult to handle without Magic Bounce, and can be considered a wincon
- The overall best archetypes are 2 coverage spam users with an adequate defensive backbone + support (requires good piloting; hard to learn in a week) and Mold Breaker bulky offense (1-2 offensive Mold Breakers, 1 support WG, usually 1 SubPass mon, 1-2 revengers, 1 Prankster or SubPass Magic Bounce)
- Mold Breakers can be either setup or Choice Band/Specs; setup generally more common
- Prankster Giratina is the overall best mon in the game; serves as a blanket check to offensive mons on most teams
- Imposter is also a good blanket check if healthy, but is generally harder to fit
- Almost every team wants at least 1 revenge killer; purely defensive checks are either fake (broken through with bad sleep luck) or inconsistent (ex. Poison Heal non-Ghost types, which are potentially threatened by Shadow Tag)
- Substitute + Baton Pass users are one of the most effective ways to support offensive teammates; Wonder Guards and Ghost-type Magic Bounce mons are the most common examples
- Common revenge killers include Huge Power Pursuit/Sucker Punch Mega Gyarados, special Gale Wings Mega Rayquaza, Choice Scarf Shadow Tag users, Shadow Tag Slaking/Regigigas, and Pixilate Mega Diancie
- The most common hazard setters are revenge killers, No Guard users, and support/utility WGs. Mold Breakers can also less commonly run them
 
Personal ORAS VR at this point in time. I've added short explanations below for mon/set placements that may seem weird at first glance; feel free to ask questions if you'd like. Regular S-A ranks are ordered within ranks, B-C and the WG VR are not.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

S Rank
S+
Wonder Guard
A+
:xerneas:
Xerneas

A
:arceus:
Arceus
:beedrill-mega:
Beedrill-Mega
:mewtwo-mega-x:
Mewtwo-Mega-X
:kyogre-primal:
Kyogre-Primal
:slaking:
Slaking

A-
:ferrothorn:
Ferrothorn
:sableye-mega:
Sableye-Mega

B+
:audino-mega:
Audino-Mega
:blissey:
Blissey
:deoxys-speed:
Deoxys-Speed
:gengar-mega:
Gengar-Mega
:ludicolo:
Ludicolo
:scizor-mega:
Scizor-Mega
:swampert-mega:
Swampert-Mega
:thundurus:
Thundurus

B
:deoxys-attack:
Deoxys-Attack
:escavalier:
Escavalier
:groudon-primal:
Groudon-Primal
:manectric-mega:
Manectric-Mega

B-
:cresselia:
Cresselia
:gyarados:
Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
:lucario-mega:
Lucario-Mega
:mewtwo-mega-y: Mewtwo-Mega-Y
:arceus:
Rotom-Fan
:arceus:
Skuntank

C
:gardevoir-mega:
Gardevoir-Mega
:ho-oh:
Ho-Oh
:landorus-therian:
Landorus-Therian
:cresselia:
Meloetta
:cresselia:
Zapdos

S
:giratina:
Giratina ......................... Prankster (S), Magic Bounce (A), Poison Heal (B)
:mewtwo-mega-x:
Mewtwo-Mega-X .......... Huge Power (S), Wonder Guard (A-), Shadow Tag (A-), Fast Support Mold Breaker (B), No Guard (C)
:rayquaza-mega:
Rayquaza-Mega ........... Mold Breaker Oblivion Wing (S), Gale Wings (A), Choice Band Mold Breaker (C+), Aerilate (C), Shadow Tag (C-)
:gyarados-mega:
Gyarados-Mega ............ Huge Power (S), Poison Heal (B+)

A Rank

A+
:groudon-primal:
Groudon-Primal ............ Shell Smash Mold Breaker (A+), Shadow Tag (A), Choice Band Mold Breaker (A), Belly Drum Mold Breaker (B), Wonder Guard (B-), Choice Band Huge Power (C+)
:chansey:
Chansey ........................ Imposter (A+)

A
:xerneas:
Xerneas .......................... Wonder Guard (A), Mold Breaker (B)
:slaking:
Slaking .......................... Shadow Tag (A), Wonder Guard (A-), Huge Power (B+), Belly Drum Mold Breaker (C+)
:regigigas:
Regigigas ....................... Shadow Tag (A), Huge Power (B+), Belly Drum Mold Breaker (C+)
:diancie-mega:
Diancie-Mega ................ Pixilate (A), Mold Breaker (A-), Huge Power Coverage (B-), Choice Band Huge Power (C)
:kyogre-primal:
Kyogre-Primal ................ Wonder Guard (A), Magic Bounce (C), Mold Breaker (C-)
:aegislash:
Aegislash ....................... Magic Bounce (A), Prankster (C-)

A-
:beedrill-mega:
Beedrill-Mega ................ Wonder Guard (A-)
:arceus:
Arceus ........................... Wonder Guard (A-), Shadow Tag (B), Mold Breaker (B-), No Guard (C)
:ferrothorn:
Ferrothorn ..................... Wonder Guard (A-), Magic Bounce (C-)
:sableye-mega:
Sableye-Mega .............. Wonder Guard (A-)
:blissey:
Blissey .......................... Imposter (A-), Wonder Guard (B+)


Reminder that Pokemon after this point are ranked alphabetically

B Rank

B+
:audino-mega:
Audino-Mega ................ Wonder Guard (B+)
:deoxys-speed:
Deoxys-Speed .............. Wonder Guard (B+), No Guard (B-)
:escavalier:
Escavalier ..................... Wonder Guard (B+)
:gengar-mega:
Gengar-Mega ............... Wonder Guard (B+), No Guard (B-), Mold Breaker (C+)
:ludicolo:
Ludicolo ........................ Wonder Guard (B+)
:scizor-mega:
Scizor-Mega ................. Wonder Guard (B+)
:swampert-mega:
Swampert-Mega ........... Wonder Guard (B+)

B
:deoxys-attack:
Deoxys-Attack .............. Wonder Guard (B), Huge Power (C-)
:latios-mega:
Latios-Mega ................... Protean (B), Mold Breaker (B-)
:metagross-mega:
Metagross-Mega ............ Prankster (B)
:registeel:
Registeel ....................... Magic Bounce (B), Prankster (C)
:thundurus:
Thundurus ..................... Wonder Guard (B)
:yveltal:
Yveltal ............................ Poison Heal (B), Magic Bounce (B-), Huge Power (C+), Magic Guard (C)

B-
:dialga:
Dialga ............................ Mold Breaker (B-)
:gyarados:
Gyarados ....................... Wonder Guard (B-), Magic Bounce (C+), Prankster (C-), No Guard (C-)
:manectric-mega:
Manectric-Mega ............ Wonder Guard (B-)
:mewtwo-mega-y:
Mewtwo-Mega-Y ............ Protean (B-), No Guard (B-), Shadow Tag (C+), Wonder Guard (C), Choice Specs Mold Breaker (C), Huge Power (C), Setup Mold Breaker (C-), Parental Bond (C-)
:tyranitar-mega:
Tyranitar-Mega ............... Poison Heal (B-), Huge Power (B-), Mold Breaker (B-)

C Rank
C+
:aegislash:
Aerodactyl-Mega ............. No Guard (C+)
:cresselia:
Cresselia .......................... Wonder Guard (C+)
:lucario-mega:
Lucario-Mega................... Wonder Guard (C+)
:rotom-fan:
Rotom-Fan ...................... Wonder Guard (C+)
:arceus:
Skuntank ......................... Wonder Guard (C+)
:zekrom:
Zekrom ............................ Mold Breaker (C+)

C
:abomasnow-mega:
Abomasnow-Mega .......... Refrigerate (C)
:gardevoir-mega:
Gardevoir-Mega .............. Wonder Guard (C)
:garchomp-mega:
Giratina-Origin ................. Mold Breaker (C)
:kyurem-black:
Kyurem-Black................... Belly Drum Mold Breaker (C), Refrigerate (C)
:landorus-therian:
Landorus-Therian ............ Wonder Guard (C)
:rotom-fan:
Zapdos ............................ Wonder Guard (C)

C-
:kyurem-black:
Banette-Mega .................. Belly Drum Mold Breaker (C-)
:garchomp-mega:
Garchomp-Mega ............. Mold Breaker (C-)
:ho-oh:
Ho-Oh .............................. Magic Guard (C-), Wonder Guard (C-)
:lugia:
Lugia ................................ Shadow Tag (C-)
:garchomp-mega:
Meloetta ........................... Wonder Guard (C-)
:landorus-therian:
Probopass ....................... Magic Bounce (C-)
:garchomp-mega:
Umbreon .......................... Poison Heal (C-)

_____________________________________________________________________________________

Explanations:

:mewtwo-mega-x::rayquaza-mega::gyarados-mega:
Giratina's the worst it's been in a long time – Prankster is harder to fit on teams these days as Magic Bounce users are more valuable due to Taunt Gale Wings Rayquaza (and WG Beedrill though that's a tad less popular than it was in HPL). Magic Bounce doesn't actually check a lot of what you'd like it to, with WG Xerneas/Pixilate Diancie setting hazards by forcing it out and Gale Wings Rayquaza doing the same with a bit of luck. Not large enough a gap from MMX/Ray/Gyara to warrant a rank separation imo.

:aegislash:
Easily a top 10 non-WG imo. Best Bouncer on coverage spam (most potent archetype in the hands of a good pilot) and is justifiable on balance – while I used to dismiss it on this archetype as I believed Giratina's generally better on them, it's close to a sidegrade these days when (both Mold Breaker and Gale Wings) Mega Rayquaza are spammed. See this post for more clarification.

:beedrill-mega:
Inherently a matchup fish since Gale Wings Mega Rayquaza is very strong vs. most Beedrill structures and you're OHKOed by Fire Scarf STAGs from full. Also won't easily break down good structures unless the opponent actively trolls, since if you're weak to Taunt Beedrill you're probably vulnerable to almost any other Taunt mon. From a teambuilding standpoint this mon's cancer, though, and Trick sets can make progress vs. almost anything, so A- is where I'd rank this for now.

:blissey:
Leftovers Imposter is optimal on (semi)stall since the mitigation of passive damage is overall more valuable than Eviolite on that archetype. It's also sometimes justifiable on balance though in general I find Eviolite to be more worthwhile. Wonder Guard is inconsistent as a Mega Rayquaza check since you can't really do much besides Chatter, Whirlwind, or successfully Magic Coat stuff and Rayquaza will eventually get the sleep luck necessary to break through (as with basically every Wonder Guard). WG Blissey's still fine on bulkier structures with a second more reliable Rayquaza check, though.

:audino-mega:
Negatively affected by the prevalence of both Mega Rayquaza and dual MMX. The former means that optimal teams are faster-paced in general and Audino's defensive qualities are less meaningful overall, while Audino doesn't fit well on the latter since the most effect permutations of coverage can usually hit both WG Audino and WG MMX (and HP MMX-WG MMX-Imposter-Support WG-Aegislash-HP Gyarados is the most effective dual MMX structure out there). Definitely not bad still, and can be argued to be A- rank imo, but the current VR ranks Audino too highly.

:gengar-mega:
While Wonder Guard is good, A is definitely an exaggeration of its viability – it'll always be limited by Fissure/Beat Up/Pursuit/Shadow Sneak weaknesses and 4MSS. No Guard SubPass is decently solid imo, just mostly relegated to tournament play since those kinds of sets are inherently inconsistent. Trick (Black Sludge) No Guard is also potent and something only Gengar can really excel at. Mold Breaker is frankly just terrible. In this metagame setup Mold Breaker sweepers' potency hinges on the three main factors of their matchup against Prankster Giratina (all viable Mold Breakers win with Sleep luck, of course, but how little RNG you need to rely on in what situations), resilience against revenge killing, and general defensive utility. Gengar pretends to beat Giratina (Spore/Glare are valid vs. unscouted Gengar since it relies so heavily on Spooky Plate when in reality it needs to both chip Giratina and win an unfavored 5050 on potential switches, loses to every revenge killer when boosted bar STAG Slaking/Regigigas, and only counts some Wonder Guards (or passive defensive mons on non-stall without means to pivot or harass it, i.e. garbage) as valid entry points in practice.

:deoxys-attack:
Was A/arguably A+ worthy a while ago but is significantly worse now with sets like Shadow Sneak MMX/Beat Up HP Gyarados/Scarf Shadow Tag being generally more popular and WG Beedrill becoming less common. A main competitor in WG Gengar being Fissure-weak is also less impactful these days since Mega Rayquaza's immune to the attack. Choice Scarf STAG Primal Groudon in particular also means Deo-A faces serious competition from Deo-S, which outspeeds it and therefore escapes safely.

:latios-mega:
A reliably strong Freeze-Dry and good special bulk (mainly vs. Gale Wings Rayquaza) are genuine reasons to run Latios over MMX, but dependence on Soul Dew makes status Prankster Giratina a much more acute consideration when clicking buttons. An inability to run Shed Shell means Shadow Tag's much scarier on preview. Mold Breaker's also mostly outclassed by Mega Rayquaza and, for the most part, lacks defensive utility against anything that isn't Gale Wings Rayquaza. Sub + Grass Knot 3A is the most justifiable set these days imo, since you at least beat Gyarados and potentially position yourself so STAG Slaking/Regigigas have to go through Sub to revenge kill, but still not great. B- is generous

:registeel:
Close to unviable on balance imo, but a central piece to stall since its defensive profile synergizes with that of Giratina and it can stave off Mold Breaker Mega Rayquaza (and Mega Diancie/Xerneas to an extent) in tandem with other defensive mons. Stall is a genuine consideration in tournament play and B- and below are what I'd say are comprised of memes.

:thundurus:
Well-played, can be very annoying for dual MMX and is a potent fast SubPass/support WG in its own right. More relevant in tournament play than on teams demanding consistency since aside from stall you can't really fit 3 Wonder Guards without compromising your structure's offensive power, matchup against most Mold Breaker users, or overall consistency.

:yveltal:
Poison Heal is risky to use due to an inherent vulnerability to Shadow Tag, but the ability to soft-check most Mold Breakers if healthy makes it a genuine consideration in tournament play. That's better than like every mon below it. The other sets are either relegated to stall (and not on the best structures imo) or are super specific in general.

:mewtwo-mega-y:
WG is outclassed by Deo-A unless you're running a strictly offensive set, so basically only justifiable on dual MMY. Protean's the most solid set since an actually strong Freeze-Dry allows you to hit all three of Kyogre/Gyarados/Swampert/Ludicolo in one slot, unlike good HP MMX sets. In comparison Parental Bond's close to unviable imo – Psychic STAB is unjustifiable on strictly offensive sets and I find Protean MMY's ability to change type as convenient more worthwhile than, for example, fishing for Freeze-Dry freezes slightly more effectively. The other sets are just super mid in general and either don't take advantage of MMY's statspread or can do nothing to mitigate the threat of Pursuit/Sucker Punch/alternative revenge killing.

:kyurem-black::banette-mega:
Mold Breaker Belly Drum/Ice Shard/Extreme Speed/Filler 6-0s a fair number of teams (especially ones reliant on Gyarados/Gale Wings Rayquaza for revenging) once set up (though it's rather difficult when you need Icicle Plate to OHKO Giratina at +6). Banette can run a similar set with Shadow Sneak and you're immune to raw Extreme Speed, but one King's Shield nerfs Shadow Sneak to the point where opposing Giratina survives. Refrigerate Kyurem-B is also honestly near complete outclassed by HP Gyarados/Pixilate Diancie these days imo, depending on exactly what you want it to accomplish.

:lucario-mega::gardevoir-mega::xerneas:
While being immune to most revenge killing is honestly very nice, these are fundamentally limited by having to choose which WGs you're hardwalled by. This is fine on dual MMX since you can role compress your revenge killing to fit everything you'd like to and can actually threaten almost everything, but that's not possible with most offensive WGs so your structures are less potent as a result.

:probopass:
Way more garbage than people seem to think (PHPL usage is that of a ~high B rank mon) but still deserves a place imo. Outside of checking Rayquaza semi-reliably (still unreliable if you get bad Sleep luck or get it significantly chipped), Registeel is strictly better and it shows – without King's Shield or consistent correct predictions HP Gyarados deals 75 and then Probopass' positive qualities don't mean shit. Also takes 40 from Magic Bounce Fusion Bolt/Sacred Fire MMX which is too much to reliably bounce back hazards, especially when considering Sacred Fire burns. Rank worthy but not higher than C- imo.
 
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- PHPL - Teamdump -
I built 70+ 65+ teams over the course of phpl, so I won't be going over all of them in depth, these are the final versions of each team, and a big amalgamation of everything I played or passed, and I passed a lot.
Pre-tournament -
https://pokepast.es/bdb60e058674dd3f - sabl stall
https://pokepast.es/cd3d6ddaeca0acd7 - heatran offense
https://pokepast.es/d9b9a6dbc95a9282 - Doom Desire Dialga Hazardstack
https://pokepast.es/740b0a780318ae2e - Future Sight Deo-A
https://pokepast.es/10f760c474d675a8 - Band Stag MMX + support mold Mray
https://pokepast.es/f1fc2a1a87c825d3 - Band Pdon + QD Mlati
https://pokepast.es/420f7f5ca76a8ba2 - Shell Smash Mray (should be shed shell over lorb)
https://pokepast.es/f8ce48a30e348c9d - Qd mray + No guard Mgross
https://pokepast.es/e6359af9dc7ba416 - No guard Subgross BO
these were mostly things I made in the buildup to the tour, all gen6 so I won't bother sorting by tier, many of these were relatively untested and mostly served as either just a place to hold ideas, or a place to pull sets from, all of them had some interesting concept I was building around, but not all of them turned out great
Week 1 -
Wildcard - gen8
https://pokepast.es/75bbbe050333fd2b - regigigas sweeper, some very questionable sets overall, would highly recommend looking past w1 g8 teams.
https://pokepast.es/2754deb3f676b4b2 - subspore zacian C, Indeedee won the game outright though, but the rest of the team wasn't absolute garbage
https://pokepast.es/116e2c4556bd7ecd - as basic as I could get, aerobee made a point mentioning I often went a little too far off the deep end while cooking, so I wanted something more normal looking
Gen 6 -
https://pokepast.es/511ba64f3de0f299
https://pokepast.es/bd88bce5114ab25f - lycanrock ended up modifying the team heavily, but the core was kept
https://pokepast.es/e0c1013147cb2e8c - physdef imp in case of stag slak or gyar or something
https://pokepast.es/d952c969b20dc928
gen 4 -
https://pokepast.es/018c004d951408c6

https://pokepast.es/baacb211e722402b - blahpy didn't really like coverage spam, and it wasn't the best team either, so I never really passed something like it again
Week 2 - sheep played earlier than I expected them to, so I didn't have time to build all the teams​
Wildcard - gen9
https://pokepast.es/9372623594252fd0
https://pokepast.es/8189409e24a8d3bf
https://pokepast.es/253888935df3f1e3
gen 6 -
https://pokepast.es/c0f29deade1dd81e
https://pokepast.es/75a0b5b809dab809 - schizo, never used.
gen 4 -
https://pokepast.es/6b7a7abea564cb95
https://pokepast.es/cd74f23f0ea454ae - I don't think this was brought either, people pulled stuff from it though
Week 3 -
gen 7 -
https://pokepast.es/8705876efe4c2ea6
https://pokepast.es/678b8748f9c272b6
https://pokepast.es/8211fea43284a0a4
https://pokepast.es/357b61429208d78b
gen 6 -
https://pokepast.es/6623f97420378b77
https://pokepast.es/1740f165de0ac10c
https://pokepast.es/f7b126f9e9232882
https://pokepast.es/c723a81457c0c9b2
gen 4 -
https://pokepast.es/327c8ec057f15758
Week 4 -
Wildcard - gen 2
https://pokepast.es/efced6c620128b24 - wasn't happy with my wildcard teams this week
https://pokepast.es/b837460fa55936bb
https://pokepast.es/2327acf13bc8da55
gen 7 -
https://pokepast.es/76b9f77c8f54c12a
Gen 6 -
https://pokepast.es/5861fa9edbe39105
https://pokepast.es/9822e697bd298ada
https://pokepast.es/e010d168eaaf4cb1
Week 5 -
Wildcard - Gen 3
https://pokepast.es/c50be8c7b5000c3a
https://pokepast.es/a2fe163c86c18b8e
https://pokepast.es/35b909f38f1ca93e
gen 6 -
https://pokepast.es/4063ee54a987e9b2
https://pokepast.es/798efe63da5a60d5
https://pokepast.es/5dde651e11f3dfa6
https://pokepast.es/6596f22d8549ba88
Gen 4 -
https://pokepast.es/2ae3ac18aad3ec3d - I don't think we actually brought this one, but it was interesting.
Week 6 -
Wildcard - gen 8
https://pokepast.es/a99c2de1b50af954
https://pokepast.es/01a1461049038efa
https://pokepast.es/01febf3767acfb7b
https://pokepast.es/7df9d4876809c76a - hallward cooked this mad devious team, much love to our goated manager once again
Gen 6 -
https://pokepast.es/3c48c7ec3853d204
https://pokepast.es/81a7b69ffbc664e0
https://pokepast.es/9f736c56fdb534cc
Finals -
Wildcard - Gen5
https://pokepast.es/bce2c2214b9a8e26 - goated hallward team once again, a shame I didn't get to bring it. It felt a little much for post-tour friendlies as well, so I never pulled it out.
https://pokepast.es/55bb248a703b68de
https://pokepast.es/3e5bd335f77e1662
https://pokepast.es/8dc74ad5701c359b
https://pokepast.es/343c54fa2e988240
gen 6 -
https://pokepast.es/89e0c358243d5256
https://pokepast.es/364d702b862c4aa5
https://pokepast.es/4c3a37d1230dd435 - bad revamp of don spam I made, pretty terrible
https://pokepast.es/6e786c56eac068f2 - made to cteam wg's, so lati set is weird
https://pokepast.es/e4e060172aee421e
https://pokepast.es/eddfd9931a839ae4
Again huge shout out to glory for all the sets I stole from you, you were great to test or build with when we did. Loved doing all this, but I'll def be taking a short break, this took a bit out of me seeing as I was doing this on top of a bunch of irl work. G9 updates will come at some point, and more resources will be added. Had a lot of fun y'all
 
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Post-PHPL Teamdumps for BW/ORAS/BDSP PH. I speedbuilt most of these teams so they might be flawed

BW Teamdump

I played a couple friendlies with lag=bad (whom Fc was supposed to play in finals but that matchup was deadgamed), so I'll link games next to each team used. Click on mons for pokepaste.

:deoxys-speed::deoxys-speed::dialga::slaking::landorus-therian::giratina:Game
BW Sleep mechs mean No Guard is completely ridiculous – Hypnosis (out-PPs Magic Coat) + Entrainment (more PP than Gastro Acid) means you can Sleep --> remove Ability --> OHKO with absolutely no consequence, at least until the OHKO move threatens to run out of PP. Substitute No Guard also doesn't care about Magic Coat. Running status orb WG to counter sleep means you'll be chipped anyway (from Burn/Poison), meaning you don't address the mindgames issue. The rest of the team aims to support Sub Deo-S, with guaranteed Stealth Rock, (very) soft Improofing, SubPass, and clerics. Lando-T outspeeds Groudon (i.e. is a reliable Prank Groudon check) and doesn't actually care about sleep because half the time you call Heal Bell and the other 50% you force them out via Encore. Free momentum in most situations, though sometimes not always calling Heal Bell is detrimental.

:giratina::deoxys-speed::electrode::slaking::deoxys-speed::chansey:
You also need Shed Shell, or you lose to this crap. Curse + BP lets you potentially pass to ESpeed Mold Slaking, though there's not much you can do to Improof unless you run Imprison on the receiver. No Guard can basically always Trick one of their WGs so they will always be vulnerable. If you change STAG Deo-S to Infernape you also fully wall Level 2 Spiritomb, though you're outsped by Electrode and +Spe Arceus then. This is unoptimized so sets can probably be improved.

:deoxys-speed::spiritomb::giratina::regigigas::dialga::groudon:Game
Same idea as the first team, set Rocks + Sub No Guard them. Except in the actual game I didn't even need hazards since I won the mindgame vs. a 2 WG core with one of them poisoned. Sleep Talk doesn't call Nature Power, meaning if you run Sleep Talk/Nature Power/uncallable move (like Copycat)/Heal Bell or Psycho Shift you function as a genuine status absorber. Heal Bell is better support while the latter is more proactive.

:deoxys-speed::aerodactyl::rayquaza::regigigas::spiritomb::deoxys-speed:
No Guard SubPass into Mold Breaker. STAG Aerodactyl also traps non-Shed Shell WG and Huge Power normals (which deal 51% max with no boosting item). Bounce Deo-S is objectively inconsistent but Prankster-immune SubPass and going first are both broken

:blissey::spiritomb::giratina::gengar::arceus::skarmory:
First team I built and it's awful – No Guard takes advantage of any remotely slow team and there's essentially nothing you can do if hazards are up, bar repeatedly winning mindgames.

tldr Deo-S is insanely broken (S/S+ worthy) and completely warps the meta. Level 2 Spiritomb does to a lesser extent (strongly incentivizes Mold Breakers on teams), Prankster Grounds can status absorb, and Magic Coat (and hazard removal) is at best a temporary stopgap to No Guard, and at worst straight loses. While coverage spam is inherently inconsistent, the WG meta is centralized enough that as fishes they may be potentially worthwhile.

Also unfinished idea: :deoxys-speed::gengar::landorus-therian::slaking:
Mold HP Ice Lando-T is one of the only mons that can self-Improof whilst running Lum Berry.


ORAS Teamdump

Only built 2 teams and mostly contributed by tweaking teams created by my ORAS starters. Not pasting because they're not mine and I can't be bothered to find them.

:chansey::rayquaza-mega::ludicolo::talonflame::aegislash::gyarados-mega:Game
Built for Excaliju vs. Maxouille, week 5. They had essentially only used coverage spam and the occasional Mold Breaker balance until then so I passed WG Talonflame (annoying for most MMX) and Imposter. Unfortunately Excaliju choked vs. Prankster MMX and lost Talonflame towards the end.

:blissey::aegislash::groudon-primal::gyarados-mega::audino-mega::deoxys-speed:Game
Leftovers Imposter is very good into passive stuff (and WG Gastro Thundurus, as shown in the game) and still deters most Mold Breaker setup. Deo-S is also an underappreciated SubPass WG since you outspeed Scarf Primal Groudon. Unfortunately had terrible matchup but Excaliju still somehow won



BDSP Teamdump

Fc built both of these (with edits from me) but he took inspiration from samples so they're basically mine

:arceus-steel::arceus-electric::arceus-ghost::deoxys-speed::mewtwo::arceus-grass:Game

Deo-S lead HO. Deo probably should've been Lum, though the item usefulness fundamentally depends on the opponent's initial move (Taunt vs. Sleep vs. Magic Coat)

:arceus-flying::arceus-grass::arceus::mewtwo::arceus-fairy::spiritomb:Game
HO with a usually advantageous lead matchup vs. opposing HO. Not much to say
 
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Drafted this post a few days ago, but forgot to send it until now.

I would host PHPL again in a heartbeat, but it was an experience unlike any other to see the format I revived be thrown back into the grave. Even if usable solutions are found, DPPt Pure Hackmons will forever be tarnished by Taunt, Sleep, Baton Pass, and Shadow Tag, and under the current definition of Pure Hackmons, there is nothing I can do other than watch the format die.

My main hope for Pure Hackmons, and one of the reasons why I tried to revive DPP Pure Hackmons, was for us to have new formats to expand to. The future is not looking good- we have few formats left to explore, and we likely won’t really get any new ones that are playable. Even the stable formats we have now are at risk- ORAS always has had Dark Void, Chatter, Taunt, and more to deal with. USUM has CFZ spam and various unwallable sweepers. Those two are pretty much all we have left, and we can’t survive forever on just two formats. To be blunt, we need to expand somehow, or the Pure Hackmons community will die. However, I believe I might have a solution to this. A solution that will not only allow us to expand, but will ensure the survival of formats with improved versions of these kinds of metagames.

We need to add bans

First off, a lot of these “bans” can be in the form of very standard clauses. Sleep Clause and Species Clause would immediately open up ADV, BW, BDSP, potentially LGPE, and would greatly improve GSC, DPPt, ORAS, and USUM. RBY would need a Dig/Fly clause, and adding an OHKO clause would benefit it, GSC, and ADV. Baton Pass clause would improve ADV, DPP, BDSP, SV, and more. Adding a CFZ clause could improve USUM, and would remove strategies commonly known to be nearly unstoppable, such as Harvest Slaking or the unwallable Kartana set (Huge Power with Shell Smash + Searing Sunraze Smash).

As for outright bans, very few would actually need to be necessary- banning Taunt alone would greatly improve DPPt, but all formats from ADV onwards (except for maybe USUM) would benefit. Banning Chatter would be very good for ORAS, and banning Neutralizing Gas would open up so many possibilities for SwSh, BDSP, and SV (although SV would potentially also need the Ability Shield to be banned). Banning Revival Blessing would completely overhaul SV, and would make the format (and crucially all future formats) far more playable. We really do not need to ban that much- the bare minimum in terms of bans will breathe so much new life into Pure Hackmons as a whole.

All of this, however, comes at a risk

All of this is assuming these bans do not outright kill Pure Hackmons. The biggest problem with banning anything in Pure Hackmons is that the entire identity of the format is based around no bans. However, and I hate to say this- this was doomed from the start. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was known all along that a format with truly no bans and no restrictions would have a limited lifespan. It is truly marvelous that we made it this far, but I think we are at the end of the life of Pure Hackmons. We need a new name- one that clearly separates us from Balanced Hackmons, but doesn’t convey the same meaning as Pure Hackmons, and the community should be in charge of choosing this name (although I have suggested the name "Wondrous Hackmons" and that is what it is being called for now). The Pure Hackmons we know today can remain Pure Hackmons, but if our new format goes under a new name and a new series of rules, we could ensure the healthy development of similar-feeling but much healthier metagames for the foreseeable future.

I believe this is worth the risk, for even if this turns out to be a mistake, did we truly lose anything other than time, which was already running out?

Based on the community response, there seems to be quite a bit of interest in the format, so much so that the Discord server for it now has 15 members (not counting me and the bot), and it has been out for only an hour or two. I'm planning on keeping an eye on Wondrous Hackmons, with the hope that it can be the format that saves this community.
 
This will be Balanced Createmons in 1998

Jokes aside, this is quite the development! So, here are some thoughts from someone way under-qualified

If I recall, isn’t it (supposedly) also possible to start pre-statused in a link battle? This is something not implemented onto showdown, and so it makes me wonder if the type changing will ever be added, either.

If both get added, this leads to some strange implications/impacts on the meta.
Spore becomes wildly less useful because of everything starting with a better status, rest becomes actively bad (especially when everything gets soft boiled), and I’m guessing Ghost/Normal runs amuck, with no weaknesses, two resistances (which don’t matter) and two immunities (of which only one - maybe two if counting HJK - matters, being normal)

Like mentioned, Every pokemon can look like another pokemon - this means that every pokemon will likely do this, to disguise what it is.

Most Pokémon probably run mewtwo stats, or something bulkier like snorlax/chansey, every fast special attacker prefers to start the match burned, instead of paralyzed, and hyper beam Ghost/Normals likely either start poisoned or start without status.

Finally - Psychics beware, for pin missile can be put onto multiple actually viable stat spreads, not just jolteon anymore!

Quick side note: please fact check what I have said here - I’m very unfamiliar with Gen 1 as a whole and probably got something very wrong

Quick question too: why would many pokemon be immune to quick attack? Is that just due to ghost being common or is there some other, more jank reason for it?
Also, why doesn't Gen 1 Hackmons have level 0 - 255 (Glitchable in RBY, but IDK if it works in link battles)?
 
:groudon: NEW ADV VR!!! :kyogre:
:rayquaza:
S Rank
1. :slaking: Slaking

A Rank
2. :kyogre: Kyogre
3. :gengar: Gengar
4. :ninjask: Ninjask
5. :latios: Latios
6. :aerodactyl: Aerodactyl
7. :groudon: Groudon


B Rank
8. :dugtrio: Dugtrio
9. :deoxys-attack: Deoxys-Attack
10. :deoxys: Deoxys
11. :tyranitar: Tyranitar


C Rank
12. :mewtwo: Mewtwo
13. :skarmory: Skarmory
14. :banette: Banette
15. :wobbuffet: Wobbuffet
16. :lugia: Lugia
17. :blissey: Blissey

D Rank
18. :tauros: Tauros
19. :machamp: Machamp
20. :breloom: Breloom
21. :metagross: Metagross
22. :chansey: Chansey
23. :omastar: Omastar
24. :gyarados: Gyarados
25. :starmie: Starmie
 
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