OM Mashup Megathread

Ransei

is a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributor
Other Metas Leader
Late announcement but it has been confirmed that Camomons Balanced Hackmons will be our next OM Mashup Spotlight!

Nearly anything that can be hacked in-game and is usable in local battles is allowed but each Pokémon can change type to match their first two moves.

Clauses:
BH Clauses

Banlist:
Pokemon: None

Abilities: Arena Trap, Contrary, Huge Power, Illusion, Innards Out, Magnet Pull, Moody, Parental Bond, Protean, Psychic Surge, Pure Power, Shadow Tag, Stakeout, Water Bubble, Wonder Guard

Moves:
Chatter

Items:
Gengarite

Complex Bans:
Comatose + Sleep Talk

FAQ:
Q: Where can I play this?
A: by tours on the main server
/tour new camomons, elim
/tour setautostart 10
/tour ruleset +illegal, +unreleased, +uber, Pokemon, Ability Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, CFZ Clause, Sleep Clause Mod, Endless Battle Clause, HP Percentage Mod, Cancel Mod, !Species Clause, +Dragonite, +Kartana, +Kyurem-Black, +Latias-Mega, +Shedinja, +Power Construct, +Baton Pass, -Arena Trap, -Huge Power, -Illusion, -Innards Out, -Magnet Pull, -Moody, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Psychic Surge, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Stakeout, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, -Gengarite, -Chatter, -Comatose + Sleep Talk
/tour name [Gen 7] Camomons BH
 
Camomons BH Sets:


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Shedinja @ Protective Pads / Safety Goggles
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Endeavor
- Topsy-Turvy / Pursuit / Knock Off
- U-turn
- Extreme Speed / Foresight

Normal/Dark is the chosen type for Sturdinja to grant it an immunity to both Moongeist Beam and Photon Geyser.


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Kyogre-Primal @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Knock Off
- Clear Smog / Poison Fang
- U-turn
- Revelation Dance

A Dark/Poison regenvest mon.


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Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Focus Sash
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Power Trip
- Shell Smash
- Anchor Shot / "random move"

Its a decent typing, for both offensively and defensively. Can't think of a 4th move for this...


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Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Choice Specs
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Hurricane / Oblivion Wing
- Oblivion Wing / Steam Eruption
- Volt Switch

A rain abuser, Water/Flying is a great offensive typing together.


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Rayquaza-Mega @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Lovely Kiss
- Quiver Dance
- Magma Storm / Strength Sap

Immune to Core Enforcer to keep its ability and Spectral Thief to avoid its boost getting stolen. Fairy STAB alone is strong enough and Lovely Kiss can ruined some counters despite sleep clause.


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Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Nature's Madness
- Extreme Speed
- Shore Up
- Night Shade

Kanga slightly benefits from Camomon mechanics, but still has most of its flaws in BH.

A very late edit: Changed Wonder Guard to Sturdy on Shedinja
 
Last edited:

drampa's grandpa

#BlackLivesMatter
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
In accordance with the LC ban (which happened ages ago :( ), Baton Pass will now be banned by default from LC based mashups. This will effect LC AAA, LC MnM, and LC STABmons, in additions to numerous unofficial mashups. BH LC will retain Baton Pass for the time being.

If any player wishes for the move to be unbanned from one of our LC mashups feel free to make the argument here, and of course any council or leader for a metagame may unban the move if they think it fitting.

Wingull has also been banned from LC, but how exactly we handle that is still to be decided, and will likely be done on a per meta basis. Please give whatever input you can so we can make the best possible decisions ^_^. We are especially looking for input for LC AAA right now so we can get the proper bans in place for the minitour. Pinging Roldski32

In other news...
I have been seeing some requests for a ban of Lucarionite in STABmons Mix and Mega! The addition of higher powered base moves onto Pokemon that gain Adaptability is very clearly extremely potent. Is it too much so? Please discuss!

I am currently on a temporary hiatus with greatly reduced activity but I should be back in about a week. I will make more decisions and updates then, including a possible Lucarionite suspect.

One final thing. As we approach the end of this generation we need to begin ruminating on what mashups we will have next generation. Which should we absolutely keep? Are there any we should lose? Any new ones that seem vital to add to the main list? Feel free to let me know what you think, preferably via Discord PM so I can keep track of what people are saying to me. I won't guarantee your favorites will get in of course, but I will try to convince that grouchy immortal guy ;) to give us the best list possible ^_^
 

Ransei

is a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributor
Other Metas Leader
I think we heard enough of an outcry over this and personally I can't see much development going on for the metagame if we can just spam the same high BST Pokemon several times over with different typings.

Due to the nature of Camomons BH, species clause will be implemented to the metagame. Have fun!

Nearly anything that can be hacked in-game and is usable in local battles is allowed but each Pokémon can change type to match their first two moves.

Clauses:
BH Clauses
Species Clause

Banlist:
Pokemon: None

Abilities: Arena Trap, Contrary, Huge Power, Illusion, Innards Out, Magnet Pull, Moody, Parental Bond, Protean, Psychic Surge, Pure Power, Shadow Tag, Stakeout, Water Bubble, Wonder Guard

Moves:
Chatter

Items:
Gengarite

Complex Bans:
Comatose + Sleep Talk

FAQ:
Q: Where can I play this?
A: by tours on the main server
/tour new camomons, elim
/tour setautostart 10
/tour ruleset +illegal, +unreleased, +uber, Pokemon, Ability Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Species Clause, CFZ Clause, Sleep Clause Mod, Endless Battle Clause, HP Percentage Mod, Cancel Mod, +Dragonite, +Kartana, +Kyurem-Black, +Latias-Mega, +Shedinja, +Power Construct, +Baton Pass, -Arena Trap, -Contrary, -Huge Power, -Illusion, -Innards Out, -Magnet Pull, -Moody, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Psychic Surge, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Stakeout, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, -Gengarite, -Chatter, -Comatose + Sleep Talk
/tour name [Gen 7] Camomons BH
 
Roldski32 - For the Normal/Dark Camomons BH Shedinja, why isn't it Sturdy? I'd imagine that plain old Wonder Guard Shedinja would keep dying to stuff like Moonblast.
Whoops,forgot to change the ability, I was in a hurry doing a small, but important thing during posting that, mbad.

As for the upcoming AAA LC mini-tour, I've brought a 4 new sample teams:

Surskit @ Focus Sash
Ability: Mold Breaker
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 20 Def / 196 SpA / 20 SpD / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sticky Web
- Scald
- Icy Wind
- Haze

Gastly @ Life Orb
Ability: No Guard
Level: 5
EVs: 200 SpA / 80 SpD / 200 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Hypnosis
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fighting]

Abra @ Psychium Z
Ability: Psychic Surge
Level: 5
EVs: 240 SpA / 200 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Substitute

Pawniard @ Eviolite
Ability: Adaptability
Level: 5
EVs: 156 Atk / 36 Def / 116 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Stealth Rock

Mienfoo @ Life Orb
Ability: Tough Claws
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 9 HP
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Drain Punch

Vullaby (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 76 Def / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Defog

Vullaby (F) @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 76 Atk / 76 Def / 236 SpD
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Defog

Clamperl @ Deep Sea Tooth
Ability: Swift Swim
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 244 SpA / 180 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Shell Smash

Frillish @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
Level: 5
EVs: 36 Def / 236 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Shadow Ball
- Hydro Pump
- Trick

Mareanie @ Eviolite
Ability: Volt Absorb
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 12 Atk / 100 Def / 92 SpA / 100 SpD
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Sludge Bomb
- Knock Off
- Recover

Ferroseed @ Eviolite
Ability: Flash Fire
Level: 5
EVs: 84 HP / 36 Atk / 108 Def / 228 SpD / 36 Spe
Impish Nature
- Bullet Seed
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave

Pancham @ Eviolite
Ability: Triage
Level: 5
EVs: 180 Atk / 100 Def / 212 SpD / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Zen Headbutt
- Swords Dance

Pancham @ Eviolite
Ability: Triage
Level: 5
EVs: 180 Atk / 100 Def / 132 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Zen Headbutt
- Swords Dance

Mienfoo @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Tough Claws
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Poison Jab

Vullaby (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 76 Def / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Defog

Ferroseed @ Eviolite
Ability: Flash Fire
Level: 5
EVs: 84 HP / 36 Atk / 108 Def / 228 SpD / 36 Spe
Impish Nature
- Bullet Seed
- Knock Off
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave

Nosepass @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 76 Atk / 156 Def / 116 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Volt Switch
- Rock Blast
- Thunder Wave

Ponyta @ Eviolite
Ability: Desolate Land
Level: 5
EVs: 76 Atk / 156 Def / 76 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- High Horsepower
- Wild Charge
- Morning Sun

Elekid @ Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
Level: 5
EVs: 240 SpA / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 9 HP / 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Psychic

Magnemite @ Life Orb
Ability: Surge Surfer
Level: 5
EVs: 240 SpA / 236 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ground]

Chinchou @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 5
EVs: 52 Def / 228 SpA / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Thunder
- Volt Switch
- Ice Beam

Vullaby (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 76 Def / 196 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Defog

Ponyta @ Eviolite
Ability: Desolate Land
Level: 5
EVs: 76 Atk / 156 Def / 76 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Wild Charge
- Will-O-Wisp
- Morning Sun

Mareanie @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 12 Atk / 100 Def / 92 SpA / 100 SpD
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Sludge Bomb
- Knock Off
- Recover
 
Here are some more Camomons BH sets. I've spent a lot of time building for this meta (you can see I use my time wisely). I'll break these down in sections. I hope these can help spark some ideas for building in this meta. I think Camo BH has a lot more potential for creativity than people are imagining, especially with the Species Clause being implemented. Now just ban V-create and we'll have even more diversity in this meta!

-Ates aren't dead in Camomons


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Rayquaza-Mega @ Life Orb
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Rash / Lonely Nature
- Hail / Ice Hammer
- Precipice Blades
- Boomburst
- Extreme Speed

Mixed Refrigerate Mega Rayquaza hits very hard with a great Ice/Ground STAB combination. Hail is kind of a meme move to get Ice-typing but it could also come in handy for chip. Nature can be tweaked but I find that a strong Boomburst is usually more worth it.


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Rayquaza-Mega @ Life Orb
Ability: Galvanize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Volt Switch
- Oblivion Wing
- Boomburst
- Extreme Speed

Still testing this one out, but Electric/Flying is an interesting type combination that can catch some walls off guard and potentially revenge kill faster threats with Extreme Speed. Volt Switch lets it serve as a strong pivot while Oblivion Wing lets it heal up and last a little longer.


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Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Rash / Lonely Nature
- Play Rough
- Precipice Blades
- Extreme Speed
- Boomburst

Fairy/Ground is another great STAB combination that has impression neutral coverage. Gaining the Fairy-typing is tough due to an unfortunate movepool to choose from, but Play Rough can still be utilized. I went with a +SpA nature to help Boomburst hit even harder, but +Atk is definitely an option.

Triage could actually be borked


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Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Oblivion Wing
- Earth Power / Moongeist Beam / Giga Drain / Secret Sword
- Tail Glow
- Filler

Triage gets even scarier in this meta. 194 Base SpA Life Orb boosted STABs makes this a tough mon to wall. The second move slot can be tailored to almost anything, depending on what you want to beat and what your improof is. Luckily for all of us, Unaware is a viable stop to this mon usually and Dazzling/Queenly Majesty can also give it trouble.


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Groudon-Primal / Mega-Mewtwo-X @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike / Photon Geyser
- Leech Life
- Swords Dance
- Precipice Blades

Move over Heracross, a mon with better typing is coming through. Physical Triage sets shouldn't be slept on in this meta. Access to moves like Sunsteel and Photon let physical Triage users overcome the struggles they face in normal BH. This isn't too tough to improof using a teammate with a Steel resisting typing and/or the Dazzling Queenly Majesty Ability.

Fur Coat Chansey has a plethora of options for defensive typing


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Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed / Sassy Nature
- Roost / Heal Order / Shore Up / Moonlight / Synthesis
- Metal Burst
- U-turn
- Defog / Topsy-Turvy / Whirlwind

Chansey has a ton of nice defensive typings to choose from, with most of them being part Steel-type. However, this opens it up to weaknesses that normal Chansey is not use to and it is still crippled by losing its item.


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Chansey (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Thousand Waves
- Volt Switch
- Soft Boiled

This set gives Chansey another interesting typing that has only one uncommon weakness. It plays a little differently than Metal Burst variants, but can still be annoying and very tough to take down.

Wait, who said there was no diversity in this meta??

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Aerodactyl-Mega @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spore / Strength Sap
- Anchor Shot
- Taunt / U-turn / Encore
- Stealth Rock

Aerodactyl outspeeds everyone else and messes with your walls. He gets rocks up, can trap you, can sleep you, or just pivot out. This set isn't the greatest, but it can be an asset depending on your team needs.


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Deoxys-Attack @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Mind Blown
- Light of Ruin
- Endeavor
- High Jump Kick / Volt Tackle / Other

This mon is incredibly fun to use. It is faster than the Mewtwos and hits very hard with its choice of high BP STAB moves. Another great part of this set is Focus Sash with Endeavor, though. Even without being at 1 HP, Deoxys-A with no HP investment has minimal hit points and can bring opponents down to range of being KO'd. EVs are minimized to help it activate sash and to hit imposter hard even through resisted hits.


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Beedrill-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Sunsteel Strike / High Horsepower / Bolt Strike / Knock Off
- Filler
- Filler

Beedrill is still faster than almost anything in this meta and still has a very strong pivot with STAB U-turn. Now it just gets the ability to have a nicer secondary STAB option to go along with a great ability in Tough Claws. There are lots of great options and here are a few. The last two slots are customizable and team dependent.

Offensive abilities you might be sleeping on


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Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Fightinium Z
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 52 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Focus Blast
- Blizzard
- Grass Whistle
- Magma Storm

This MMY takes advantage of No Guard by firing off high BP STAB moves that would usually miss. It can serve as a stall breaker thanks to Sleep and Magma Storm. The Z-move gives it some extra power in a pinch.


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Mewtwo-Mega-X @ King's Rock
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Bone Rush
- Taunt
- Filler

Skill Link + King's Rock + Taunt = a wall's worst nightmare. The typing can be tweaked if you want to use some of the more niche mutli-hit moves but this STAB combination is very desirable. Adamant nature gives it more power rather than speed so that it hits harder on the walls it is built to pester.


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Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Choice Specs
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fleur Cannon
- Leaf Storm / Psystrike
- Moonblast / Trick
- Giga Drain / Photon Geyser / Volt Switch

I'm still tweaking the typing I want on this set, but the idea is clear. Tinted Lens seems like it has potential to do some damage in this meta. MMY boasts the highest SpA stat and can choose from many strong special attacking moves while ignoring resists.
 

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Rayquaza-Mega @ Life Orb
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Rash / Lonely Nature
- Hail / Ice Hammer
- Precipice Blades
- Boomburst
- Extreme Speed

Mixed Refrigerate Mega Rayquaza hits very hard with a great Ice/Ground STAB combination. Hail is kind of a meme move to get Ice-typing but it could also come in handy for chip. Nature can be tweaked but I find that a strong Boomburst is usually more worth it.
Would you ever actually use Ice Hammer? It's not as strong as Extreme Speed, so unless you lose your ability, it would only help against special walls with Dazzling/Psychic Surge, or if you run out of PP. There are other Ice moves which seem like they could be more useful (though admittedly you're not likely to use any of them often), such as Haze, Glaciate, Freeze Dry, or (if for some reason you're running a hail team) Aurora Veil.
 

Funbot28

Banned deucer.
:Deoxys-Attack:
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Deoxys-Attack @ Life Orb
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Secret Sword
- Ice Beam
- Moonblast / Blue Flare / Sunsteel Strike

Beast revenge killer that can abuse common Triage users and in general can be a pain to properly defensively check. Deo-A in general finally gets to shine as an offensive threat due to the power of STAB moves making it much more of an unmanageable threat to deal with compared to vanilla BH.

:Mewtwo-Mega X:
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Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Choice Band
Ability: Tinted Lens / Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Thousand Arrows
- Trick / Sunsteel Strike
- U-turn

This mon has legit no switchins lollll. V-Create in general is really dumb in this format and should be looked into but this set basically necessitates Water / Ground Zygarde-C or Giratina on nearly every team or else it becomes a sack war each time this monster has a chance to come in.

:Mewtwo-Mega Y:
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Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Mind Blown
- Fleur Cannon
- High Jump Kick / Sunsteel Strike
- Earth Power / Shell Smash

Another fun offensive mon that lacks much counterplay unless you go with some fat ass FF bulky steels. Could run a wide array of coverage options depending on what the rest of the team needs to be taken out, while the first two STAB moves cover the majority of the meta already.

Camo BH is really fun and a nice twist on the general BH formula. However, there are some things I would like to be addressed :

1) V-Create: Basically gives anything with a moderately good Attack stat the "Pdon Syndrome" (aka a nuke of a stab move) that can be extremely hard to deal with especially when combined with abilities such as Tinted Lens and Desolate Land. Multiple abusers can be found, with the most common being MMX and Mega Ray of course and I generally feel that the move pushes way too many threats to an unhealthy degree to warrant a ban and centralizes the meta too much towards specific mons such as Water / Ground Zyg-C or Gira of FF / Psea mons in general.

2) Shedinja: Less sold on this, but the fact that Shed can modify its typing to avoid two common moves to counteract it (ie: a Dark / Normal typing that avoids Photon Geyser and Moongeist Beam) can make Shed way more difficult to deal with. You can still deal with it via other means mainly being Sunsteel Strike, Mold Breaker (esp paired with Pursuit), entry hazard, weather, etc... but I feel Shed is pushed over the edge in this meta due to the fact that it just becomes way more harder to counterplay a mon that already lacks much counterplay.

And that is all, really enjoy the meta besides the two aforementioned factors!
 
:Deoxys-Attack:
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Deoxys-Attack @ Life Orb
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Secret Sword
- Ice Beam
- Moonblast / Blue Flare / Sunsteel Strike

Beast revenge killer that can abuse common Triage users and in general can be a pain to properly defensively check. Deo-A in general finally gets to shine as an offensive threat due to the power of STAB moves making it much more of an unmanageable threat to deal with compared to vanilla BH.

:Mewtwo-Mega X:
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Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Choice Band
Ability: Tinted Lens / Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Thousand Arrows
- Trick / Sunsteel Strike
- U-turn

This mon has legit no switchins lollll. V-Create in general is really dumb in this format and should be looked into but this set basically necessitates Water / Ground Zygarde-C or Giratina on nearly every team or else it becomes a sack war each time this monster has a chance to come in.

:Mewtwo-Mega Y:
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Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Mind Blown
- Fleur Cannon
- High Jump Kick / Sunsteel Strike
- Earth Power / Shell Smash

Another fun offensive mon that lacks much counterplay unless you go with some fat ass FF bulky steels. Could run a wide array of coverage options depending on what the rest of the team needs to be taken out, while the first two STAB moves cover the majority of the meta already.

Camo BH is really fun and a nice twist on the general BH formula. However, there are some things I would like to be addressed :

1) V-Create: Basically gives anything with a moderately good Attack stat the "Pdon Syndrome" (aka a nuke of a stab move) that can be extremely hard to deal with especially when combined with abilities such as Tinted Lens and Desolate Land. Multiple abusers can be found, with the most common being MMX and Mega Ray of course and I generally feel that the move pushes way too many threats to an unhealthy degree to warrant a ban and centralizes the meta too much towards specific mons such as Water / Ground Zyg-C or Gira of FF / Psea mons in general.

2) Shedinja: Less sold on this, but the fact that Shed can modify its typing to avoid two common moves to counteract it (ie: a Dark / Normal typing that avoids Photon Geyser and Moongeist Beam) can make Shed way more difficult to deal with. You can still deal with it via other means mainly being Sunsteel Strike, Mold Breaker (esp paired with Pursuit), entry hazard, weather, etc... but I feel Shed is pushed over the edge in this meta due to the fact that it just becomes way more harder to counterplay a mon that already lacks much counterplay.

And that is all, really enjoy the meta besides the two aforementioned factors!
Is that Mewtwo-Y supposed to be using Light of Ruin instead?
 
In order to enjoy Camomons BH while we have it in the spotlight, I believe that swift action should be taken to ban V-create.

The move is extremely over-centralizing and gives mons with the highest available attacking stats STAB on a very spammable move with sky-high BP. When combined with abilities like Tinted Lens, Mold Breaker, Tough Claws, or Desolate Land (or more niche ones like Normalize or Cloud Nine) V-create has very limited switch-ins.

As seen in the replay below, you can run multiple variants of V-create mons to bypass would be checks. Here my opponent ran Fire/Ground typing with V-create and Thousand Arrows on MMX and Mega Rayquaza with what looked like Adaptability and then Mold Breaker for abilities. This combination would allow him to spam Adaptability boosted V-creates with one mon and take out Flash Fire or Fur Coat users with its Mold Breaker teammate.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7camomons-978555147

While Flash Fire and Primordial Sea are definitely options to wall opposing V-create users, the idea of having one of these on every team you make is way too restricting. In a meta where the most powerful attackers can pick and choose their STAB coverage, there are tons of offensive sets to prepare for and having a dedicated V-create sponge on every team makes you more vulnerable to other threats. Lets say you choose a Primordial Sea wall to stop V-create but your opponent brings Choice Specs Water Spout MMY to partner with a V-create user. Now you are powering up their Water Spout user while still trying to keep your wall healthy enough to stop the V-create user. The opponent might not even bring V-create and then you'd have a mon with a mostly useless ability. Abilities like Flash Fire and Primordial Sea would maybe see some usage without V-create in the meta, but would be much, much less common since there are many more valuable defensive abilities than could be run.

I honestly can't think of one good reason to keep V-create around. There are plenty of other viable and powerful offensive moves to choose from that will keep this meta from being stale. V-create's presence takes away from the creativity this meta provides and is also not fun to play against.
 
I do agree with banning V-create in Camo BH

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It forces teams to run a Fire-resist types and Fire-Immune abilities, or at worst, at least 2 or even 3 checks just to cover almost all V-create variants. It also has to take account about their secondary STAB, especially those who uses Primordial Sea or Flash Fire:

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Mewtwo-Mega-X Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 272-322 (42.7 - 50.6%) -- 44.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Mewtwo-Mega-X Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 362-428 (56.9 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Switching to a wrong move can lead to a destruction. And It just not only Adaptability that abuses V-create, but also the abilities other users mentioned above such as Tinted Lens, Mold Breaker, Tough Claws and Desolate Land.

Fire / Psychic, while rather rare, has a niche with Adaptability because of STAB Photon Geyser, which ignores Fur Coat.

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Mewtwo-Mega-X Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 302-356 (47.4 - 55.9%) -- 80.9% chance to 2HKO

It does have few drawbacks. Like it often requires user to run Adamant Nature, which they have to forgo Speed and get outsped by mons slower than them. For example, Adamant MMX has 359 Speed, which is slower than Jolly/Timid Mega Rayquaza, which had 361 Speed. Since it often uses Choice Band, King's Shield can help you scout what move they locked into while also punishes contact moves.

Despite this, V-create really needs to go.

And an announcement:


Kommonium-Z is now banned from Camomons and will affect our Camomon-based mashups such as CAAAmomons ( Camomons Uber and Camomons BH are not affected ).
 

Ransei

is a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributor
Other Metas Leader
About a week ago there was a poll ran for whether V-Create should be looked at or quickbanned with a fair amount of people wanting a suspect. Despite this, everyone's reaction towards V-Create were made pretty clear. V-Create is an incredibly splashable attack that gives nearly every meta-defining offense Pokemon the opportunity to break everything else without much of a drawback and when put especially with Thousand Arrows, realistically has have very few walls. All the best physical attackers have become the normal BH equivalent of Primal Groudon. The entire metagame is forced to have to build with or around it without being able to provide any real checks for these types of Pokemon. For example the biggest users have 180-190 Attack and could give even Zygarde-Complete a hard time after being given a combination of Choice Band or Firium Z and Desolate Land, Tinted Lens, etc. Anyone who brings Flash Fire could just as easily be punished by Mold Breaker or Thousand Arrows, anyone with Primordial Sea could expect to struggle against Desolate Land, and any resistances can still get a 180 BP attack in the face with Tinted Lens on Pokemon having insurmountable attack stats. In summary...

Due to an ongoing unanimous discussion regarding V-Create's ban serving better purpose for the metagame, V-Create will now be quickbanned from the Camomons BH metagame. Have fun!

Nearly anything that can be hacked in-game and is usable in local battles is allowed but each Pokémon can change type to match their first two moves.

Clauses:
BH Clauses
Species Clause

Banlist:
Pokemon: None

Abilities: Arena Trap, Contrary, Huge Power, Illusion, Innards Out, Magnet Pull, Moody, Parental Bond, Protean, Psychic Surge, Pure Power, Shadow Tag, Stakeout, Water Bubble, Wonder Guard

Moves:
Chatter, V-Create

Items:
Gengarite

Complex Bans:
Comatose + Sleep Talk

FAQ:
Q: Where can I play this?
A: by tours on the main server
/tour new camomons, elim
/tour setautostart 10
/tour ruleset +illegal, +unreleased, +uber, Pokemon, Ability Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Species Clause, CFZ Clause, Sleep Clause Mod, Endless Battle Clause, HP Percentage Mod, Cancel Mod, +Dragonite, +Kartana, +Kyurem-Black, +Latias-Mega, +Shedinja, +Power Construct, +Baton Pass, +Kommonium Z, -Arena Trap, -Contrary, -Huge Power, -Illusion, -Innards Out, -Magnet Pull, -Moody, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Psychic Surge, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Stakeout, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, -Gengarite, -Chatter, -V-Create, -Comatose + Sleep Talk
/tour name [Gen 7] Camomons BH
 
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drampa's grandpa

#BlackLivesMatter
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
Updates!

First; Drampa's back (again) this time for good!
Next;

Over the next week or so I plan to make a schedule with all of the popular suspects I (yes I take the blame I've been inactive af) have been putting off. Make sure to let us know if you think something is broken or banworthy in any of our metagames! Some specifics on bans that have happened or are being discussed below.
  • Kommonium Z is BANNED by default from CAAAmomons due to its ban from Camomons (link). This will also effect a number of 'unofficial' mashups. (Yes this is exactly what Roldski said.) The OP is now updated.

    If you believe Kommonium Z should not be banned please let us know in this thread.

  • We are discussing a possible Absol suspect in Tier Shift Almost Any Ability. There is currently a poll running in the mashups room, so feel free to drop by and vote and let us know your opinions on Absol.

  • Landorus-Therian was BANNED from Mega Evolving in Mix and Mega (quite awhile ago). We are taking input as to whether to carry over this ban into STABmons Mix and Mega, where it can carry out a similar role with Salamencite but more frequently runs Lucarionite or Dragon Ascent.

    ALSO

    We are debating suspecting Lucarionite from STABmons Mix and Mega. I have received several requests for this, so please let us know what you think. Expect to hear more about both of these later in the week. The more feedback I receive the sooner and more easily I can make my decision on how to proceed ;)

  • Araquanid has been banned from STABmons. It will NOT be banned from mega evolving in STABmons Mix and Mega, because it is significantly debuffed by doing so due to its viability stemming entirely from its ability and it is not in fact a notable threat in that metagame. Araquanid will also remain unbanned from StAAAbmons for the time being, due to the larger number of Pokemon capable of handling it in that metagame. However we will be keeping an eye on it there.

    Code should be updated.
If I missed anything hopefully I'll remember it and edit this post with it. Until later ^_^

EDIT:[00:28:12] +The Number Man: Btw drampa with aerodactyl banned in stabmons
[00:28:21] +The Number Man: How does it affect staaab

Aerodactyl will remain unbanned in both STAAABmons and STAB n Mega. If it causes problems in the future we can suspect it, but there are new ways to handle it provided by both metagames and the tools it gains aren't that potent compared to what it has in STABmons. Shoutout The Number Man

EDIT2: Shuckle will remain unbanned for the time being in Stab n Mega. There are more Sticky Web setters in Stab n Mega than normal Mix and Mega, so Shuckle loses part of its leg up on the competition. If webs proves to be a problematic playstyle we will discuss solutions.
 
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One other newsworthy event for Camomons BH is that Camomons council came to a decision on how Arceus (and Silvally) should be fixed: it will still continue to not have its type changeable outside of Multitype + Plate/Z-Crystal, but its actual typing will now be displayed correctly regardless of what moves are set in the first 2 slots (its inability to change is a quality of Arceus, not Multitype).

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/camomons.3598418/page-11#post-8234970

This change is now effective on main, so please be aware that you can't bluff Normal/Ghost anymore! Thanks again to Urkerab here.

  • Araquanid has been banned from STABmons. It will NOT be banned from mega evolving in STABmons Mix and Mega, because it is significantly debuffed by doing so due to its viability stemming entirely from its ability and it is not in fact a notable threat in that metagame. Araquanid will also remain unbanned from StAAAbmons for the time being, due to the larger number of Pokemon capable of handling it in that metagame. However we will be keeping an eye on it there.

    Code should be updated.
Thanks for rounding these up! As a footnote, Araquanid is incapable of setting Water Bubble under the current tour code anyway, due to it being STABmons-based with hard bans on AAA restricted abilities.
 
Camo BH thoughts:
:mewtwo-mega-y:
Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Moonblast
- Quiver Dance
- Taunt

This is easily one of the best sets in the meta. Great speed tier outspeeds most relevant offensive threats. Typing is phenomenal as no relevant move hits it SE. Self Improof. Taunt shuts down stuff like recovery, entrainment, hazards, Topsy, etc. Fairy typing blocks Core. Scald just burns physical attackers which covers its weak defense and also burns Spectral users. Also improofs some defensive mons like RegenVest by burning and setting up. Another crazy thing about it is only comatose is consistent against it as PH mons cannot resist dual STABs while others get burned.

:rayquaza-mega:
Rayquaza-Mega @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
- Bolt Strike
- Filler (Ice Beam / Seed Flare / Night Daze / Blue Flare / Focus Blast etc)

Very scary breaker which helps other stuff sweep late game. I prefer this over Deo-A because Imposter doesn’t like coming in anyways and bulk is helpful esp with decent typing. Neutral Moonblast 2HKOs stuff of Arceus bulk and coverage is mainly to smack bulkier targets SE so Seed Flare hits Water Ground Night Daze hits Normal Ghost. Has no problem with guess work or shield moves because you are not locked.

:lugia:
This mon is actually very good. I personally rank this the third best wall after Zygarde and Giratina. You should probably always run +speed Nature on this as it’s speed tier is very good, outspeeding stuff like neutral MMX.

:chansey:
Imposter is still imposter so not much to say there but it can get great pre-transform typings. Steel from Metal Burst is very good to block Tspikes and resist rocks while being a good typing if against like sub. Roost as recovery gives Flying to avoid Spikes and Tspikes which is nice and works well with Steel. Uturn/Heal Order gives Bug to get Bug Steel. Other moves can give normal, Psychic, Dark, fairy, Ground.

Prankster is interesting because it has a limited choice of typing. Haze is kinda mandatory and Ice is trash as a typing. If you only run Haze then you have great flexibility but otherwise you kinda have limited options. Decent typings possible are Recover Spectral, Anchor Roost, Anchor Shore, Anchor Heal Order, Anchor Thunder Wave, Anchor Strength Sap, Scald Roost, Topsy/Taunt Roost, Recover Encore?, etc.

Thats basically all I have, surprised though that no one has used Shedinja yet? Its a pretty broken mon since you can have Rock Dark Normal Flying all pretty easily which give it immunity to Sand Photon Moongeist Spikes/Tspikes.
 

Best Gal

Formerly GΔCT
Camo BH thoughts:

Zygarde-Complete @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Anchor Shot
- Toxic
- Shore Up
- Defog

As far as Camo BH sets go, this works well as a defensive wall. My thought process was something along the lines of "if I just give up on fighting MMX with this mon and just run a ground/water type for it I can accomplish so much more" and thus this monstrosity was born. You can switch in on special grounds with impunity and solo ground/water chansey easily. You also have good matchups against a lot of other stall mons since they cannot Toxic you. Your only weakness is to fire which is admittedly a measurably difficult choice to make since a ton of threats run Blue Flare or Sacred Fire but you kinda have to take it in stride.

This set works best alongside a Water/Ground type along the lines of Fur Coat Chansey.

Here's the team I've been using to moderate success, despite it having been cobbled together using a bunch of random sets I found in this thread:

https://pokepast.es/a4171317d40bef4a

Seemingly every time I set a spotlight tour it only gets about 2-3 players, which is sad. The meta seems kinda fun.

Admittedly, I don't operate during peak hours, but past spotlights have attracted larger crowds even during less traffic'd times so it's a bit disappointing to see camo bh struggle. I hope to see a bit more activity in the coming couple of weeks!
 
Due to major changes to main today, it seems like many, if not most previous tour codes have been invalidated. In particular, it seems that AAA-based metas that used the 'Ignore Illegal Abilities' rule will need to have that changed to '!Obtainable Abilities'. However, it's unclear if even the base OM formats are stable at this point, so it might be jumping the gun to try to remake them at this point.

Here is some info about the rule changes:-

https://github.com/Zarel/Pokemon-Sh...245e1c0#diff-791169e8e004f1c472a40eb12906ea15

Ransei

In the meantime, I think this should work for PH (might have some small differences to previous behaviour?)

Code:
/tour new ag, elimination, 32,1
/tour autostart 7
/tour autodq 3.5
/tour rules !Obtainable Moves, !Obtainable Abilities, !Obtainable Formes, !Obtainable Misc, +Unreleased
/tour name [Gen 7] Pure Hackmons
 

drampa's grandpa

#BlackLivesMatter
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
Due to major changes to main today, it seems like many, if not most previous tour codes have been invalidated. In particular, it seems that AAA-based metas that used the 'Ignore Illegal Abilities' rule will need to have that changed to '!Obtainable Abilities'. However, it's unclear if even the base OM formats are stable at this point, so it might be jumping the gun to try to remake them at this point.

Here is some info about the rule changes:-

https://github.com/Zarel/Pokemon-Sh...245e1c0#diff-791169e8e004f1c472a40eb12906ea15

Ransei

In the meantime, I think this should work for PH (might have some small differences to previous behaviour?)

Code:
/tour new ag, elimination, 32,1
/tour autostart 7
/tour autodq 3.5
/tour rules !Obtainable Moves, !Obtainable Abilities, !Obtainable Formes, !Obtainable Misc, +Unreleased
/tour name [Gen 7] Pure Hackmons
I'll work on fixing these this evening. After about 8 PM EST I'll be looking for volunteers to test mashups that have been messed up!

in other news... nobody has messaged me about what mashups they'd particularly like to see next generation! Message me on here with anything you'd like to see stay / become official, so we can plan for next generation.
 

Best Gal

Formerly GΔCT
https://pastebin.com/zQBjn5Nu

/tour new aaa, elimination
/tour autostart 10
/tour rules -Alakazam-Mega, -Blacephalon, -Buzzwole, -Celesteela, -Chansey, -Ferrothorn, -Garchomp, -Genesect, -Gengar, -Golisopod, -Gyarados, -Gyarados-Mega, -Heatran, -Hippowdon, -Kommo-o, -Landorus-Therian, -Magearna, -Mamoswine, -Manaphy, -Metagross-Mega, -Mew, -Minior, -Muk-Alola, -Naganadel, -Noivern, -Ribombee, -Skarmory, -Snorlax, -Suicune, -Swampert-Mega, -Talonflame, -Tapu Fini, -Tapu Koko, -Thundurus, -Toxapex, -Victini, -Volcarona, -Xurkitree, -Zapdos, -Zeraora
/tour name [Gen 7] Almost Any Ability UU
/tour new gen7STABmons, elimination, 32, 1
/tour autostart 10
/tour rules -Amoonguss, -Buzzwole, -Celesteela, -Chansey, -Charizard-Mega-X, -Charizard-Mega-Y, -Decidueye, -Ferrothorn, -Garchomp, -Greninja, -Greninja-Ash, -Gyarados, -Heatran, -Jirachi, -Keldeo, -Kingdra, -Landorus-Therian, -Lopunny-Mega, -Magnezone, -Manaphy, -Mawile-Mega, -Meloetta, -Mimikyu, -Minior, -Pelipper, -Pidgeot-Mega, -Rotom-Wash, -Scizor, -Scizor-Mega, -Serperior, -Suicune, -Swampert-Mega, -Sylveon, -Talonflame, -Tapu Bulu, -Tapu Fini, -Terrakion, -Thundurus-Therian, -Toxapex, -Tyranitar, -Tyranitar-Mega, -Zapdos
/tour name [Gen 7] STABmons UU
/tour new gen7STABmons, elimination, 32, 1
/tour autostart 10
/tour rules -Archeops, -Dragonite, -Hoopa-Unbound, -Kartana, -Keldeo, -Kyurem-Black, -Regigigas, -Shedinja, -Slaking, -Terrakion, -Victini, -Weavile, -Comatose, -Contrary, -Fluffy, -Fur Coat, -Huge Power, -Illusion, -Imposter, -Innards Out, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Pure Power, -Simple, -Speed Boost, -Stakeout, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, +Aegislash, +Landorus, +Metagrossite, +Naganadel, -Alakazam-Mega, -Amoonguss, -Buzzwole, -Celesteela, -Chansey, -Charizard-Mega-X, -Charizard-Mega-Y, -Decidueye, -Ferrothorn, -Garchomp, -Gengar, -Golisopod, -Greninja, -Greninja-Ash, -Gyarados, -Gyarados-Mega, -Heatran, -Hippowdon, -Jirachi, -Kingdra, -Kommo-o, -Landorus-Therian, -Lopunny-Mega, -Magearna, -Magnezone, -Mamoswine, -Manaphy, -Mawile-Mega, -Medicham-Mega, -Meloetta, -Mew, -Mimikyu, -Minior, -Muk-Alola, -Noivern, -Pelipper, -Pidgeot-Mega, -Ribombee, -Rotom-Wash, -Scizor, -Scizor-Mega, -Serperior, -Skarmory, -Snorlax, -Suicune, -Swampert-Mega, -Sylveon, -Talonflame, -Tapu Bulu, -Tapu Fini, -Tapu Lele, -Tapu Koko, -Terrakion, -Thundurus, -Thundurus-Therian, -Togekiss, -Toxapex, -Tyranitar, -Tyranitar-Mega, -Volcarona, -Xurkitree, -Zapdos, -Zeraora, !Obtainable abilities, Ability Clause

I made tour codes for STAB UU and STAAAB UU (AAA UU was already kinda made, insofar as at least the banlist) using the usage stats from the month of September. Let me know if you guys spot any problems, please!

EDIT: Pastebin has at least one error, in that STAAAB UU is missing Hippowdon ban. This post has the fixed version, though!
EDIT 2: Mega Pidgeot and Terrakion have both been banned from STABmons UU! This change will also affect STAAAB UU.
 
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