OM Mashup Megathread

With OMotM April reaching voting stage, there should be some new bootleg mashups arriving soon. This may be a good opportunity to introduce a new, experimental feature of Iolanthe: automated mashup tour code generation! This feature will try to create tour codes for new mashups by analysing the server's format data and (in general) adding the unions of bans and added rules between formats, and the intersection of their unbans.

This is the basic command for this feature:-

¥gentourcode [Base format name], [Add-on formats, separated with | ]

Examples:-

[21:45:10] ~We Wuz Nidokangz: ¥gentourcode camomons, stab|uber
[21:45:10] *Iolanthe: !code
Code:
/tour new gen7camomons, elimination, 32,1
/tour autostart 10
/tour rules Mega Rayquaza Clause, STABmons Move Legality, -Thundurus-Base, -King's Rock, -Razor Fang, -Acupressure, -Belly Drum, -Chatter, -Extreme Speed, -Geomancy, -Lovely Kiss, -Shell Smash, -Shift Gear, -Spore, -Thousand Arrows, +Uber, +Arena Trap, +Power Construct, +Shadow Tag, +Kartana, +Kyurem-Black, +Shedinja
/tour name [Gen 7] Camomons STABmons Ubers
Only Thundurus's ban is reflected from STABmons because the other banned mons should be OU and legal in Camomons, while Kartana and Kyurem-Black are unbanned from Camomons because they're legal in Ubers. As well as the Uber tier being unbanned, other uber base unbans like +Shadow Tag are also added.

[21:45:00] ~We Wuz Nidokangz: ¥gentourcode megamons, aaa|cap|uu
[21:45:00] *Iolanthe: !code
Code:
/tour new gen7megamons, elimination, 32,1
/tour autostart 10
/tour rules Ability Clause, Ignore Illegal Abilities, Allow CAP, -OU, -UUBL, -Drizzle, -Drought, -Kommonium Z, -Mewnium Z, -Uber, -Arena Trap, -Power Construct, -Shadow Tag, -Archeops, -Regigigas, -Shedinja, -Slaking, -Terrakion, -Comatose, -Contrary, -Fluffy, -Fur Coat, -Huge Power, -Illusion, -Imposter, -Innards Out, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Pure Power, -Simple, -Speed Boost, -Stakeout, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, -Crucibelle + Head Smash, -Crucibelle + Low Kick, -Tomohawk + Earth Power, -Tomohawk + Reflect, +Crucibellite
/tour name [Gen 7] MegAAAmons CAP UU
In this case we have downgraded the base tier to UU instead of upgrading it. CAP brings some complex bans as well. Even though some of the AAA bans such as Slaking are legal in UU, they wouldn't be unbanned unless the mashup tier were to surpass AAA's base tier of OU (i.e. an Ubers or AG mashup).

It's questionable whether UU should ban Drizzle and Drought in an AAA mashup, as the context is very different; I might change the default behaviour so that AAA-legal abilities won't be banned/unbanned by tier changes. Regardless, these debatable bans/unbans demonstrate that automated tour codes still need human oversight and judgement.

[21:44:18] ~We Wuz Nidokangz: ¥gentourcode chimera, mixandmega
[21:44:18] *Iolanthe: !code
Code:
/tour new gen7chimera, elimination, 32,1
/tour autostart 10
/tour rules -Shadow Tag, -Gengarite, -Baton Pass, -Electrify
/tour name [Gen 7] Chimera n Mega
[21:44:18] *Iolanthe: Code generation triggered 1 warning:-
[21:44:18] *Iolanthe: !code
Code:
Mod Conflict: "mixandmega" in add-on "[Gen 7] Mix and Mega" conflicts with base mod "gen7"!
Wait, this isn't a real mashup, rip...

Iolanthe will try to give warnings when a tour most likely won't be able to function properly and explain why. However, there will also be some false positives (like Partners in Crime AAA, which basically works fine even though it mashes doubles and singles formats together) and many cases where it is impossible to predict that a mashups won't work just from a static analysis of format data, so be careful.

Hopefully this can be a helpful feature to enable Drivers to generate new mashups with reduced time and effort. In future, more options will be added, such as automatically generating complex banlists for cases like STAB; unfortunately, that will cause tour codes to become too long to preview using !code, as the character limit (around 8000 currently) is much lower than what the actual tour code parser can accept, and could only be used to directly create tours.
 
While the Emboar suspect is still here, I would like to discuss this popular defensive pokemon i'm seeing.


Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers / Toxic Orb
Ability: Flash Fire / Unaware / Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psystrike
- Moonblast / Heart Swap
- Toxic / Heart Swap
- Moonlight

It also gets a new interesting moves in Heart Swap, which allows it to steal stat changes. Although, the common ability she uses was Flash Fire to check Emboar. But what's interesting to me is that it can run certain spread to deal with some mon, an example would be:

EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 44 SpA / 44 Spe - The Speed investment allows Cresselia to outspeed max speed Adamant Pangoro and combined with 44 SpA, Moonblast will have a decent 50% chance to OHKO it.

EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe - 96 Speed EVs is used to outspeed max speed Adamant Emboar when using Flash Fire variants.

Specially Defensive can also be run with the same spread, but moving the defense investment.

Unfortunately for Cresselia, her inability to hit Steel-Types such as Escavalier, Metagross and Registeel allowed them to switch into it quite easily. The former one is quite problematic, as Hidden Power Fire is almost never used on Cresselia, mostly due to Escavalier running potential Flash Fire.(it also sucks in general). Escavalier can also U-turn out on what's coming in or hit Cresselia hard. I also feel like she would benefit a lot from Magnet Pull users, though I haven't seen it being used much.

Anyways, as always:

AcroGar (Gligar) @ Berry Juice
Ability: Hyper Cutter
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 236 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Agility
- Earthquake
- Acrobatics
- Stone Edge

This Agility set comes from DPP LC, which i felt have more similarities to MnM LC in terms of offensively playstyle. Despite its 75 Atk, it has a great offensive typing and its naturally good bulk allows it to find some set-up opportunities. Hyper Cutter is used over Immunity to prevent the Attack Drop coming from Manectite users and Toxic isn't that common nor great in this format. Berry Juice is also used over Eviolite to regain its health while not wasting your time Roosting your health back, and it also allowed Gligar to double Acrobatic's power. This is mostly used as a late game cleaner, so don't used this if its checks are still alive and aren't worn down yet.
 

Ransei

Garde Mystik
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderatoris a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
It's been a couple months since our last VR change. Lots of new changes were made to the Pure Hackmons Viability Rankings! Check them out!

Rises
Gengar-Mega: S- -> S
Deoxys-Speed: A -> S-
Groudon-Primal: A -> A+
Audino-Mega: A- -> A
Slaking: UR -> A
Deoxys-Attack: UR -> A-
Greninja-Ash: B -> A-
Gyarados: B+ -> A-
Metagross-Mega: B- -> B+
Gyarados-Mega: B- -> B+
Magearna: B- -> B
Arceus: C+ -> B
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: C+ -> B

Drops
Regigigas: A+ -> A
Muk-Alola: A -> A-
Garchomp-Mega: C+ -> UR
Palkia: C+ -> UR
Ludicolo: C -> C-
Shedinja: C- -> UR
Froslass: D -> UR


Unlike the first revision of the original viability rankings, this new revision involved council activity and decision, rather than just my own input. Below is a list of each nominated Pokemon, the rank the were nominated to change into, and a response from each of the council members resembling an agreement, a disagreement, or an abstain.

Nominated PokemonNominated Rank ChangeDisciple 1Ranseimanu 11Result
Gengar-M​
S- -> S​
Yes​
Yes​
Abstain​
Raise to S​
Deoxys-S​
A -> S-​
Yes​
Yes​
Yes​
Raise to S-​
Groudon-P​
A -> A+​
Yes​
Yes​
Yes​
Raise to A+​
Yveltal​
B -> A+​
No​
No​
Yes​
Remains B​
Audino-M​
A- -> A​
Yes​
Yes​
Abstain​
Raises to A​
Slaking​
UR -> A​
Yes​
Yes​
Yes​
Added to A​
Deoxys-A​
UR -> A-​
Yes​
Abstain​
Yes​
Added to A-​
Greninja-A​
B -> A-​
Yes​
Yes​
Yes​
Raise to A-​
Gyarados​
B+ -> A-​
Yes​
Yes​
Yes​
Raise to A-​
Metagross-M​
B- -> B+​
Yes​
Yes​
Yes​
Raise to B+​
Gyarados-M​
B- -> B+​
Yes​
Yes​
Yes​
Raise to B+​
Magearna​
B- -> B​
Yes​
Yes​
No​
Raise to B​
Arceus​
C+ -> B​
Yes​
Yes​
Yes​
Raise to B​
Necrozma-DM​
C+ -> B​
Yes​
Yes​
Yes​
Raise to B​
Regigigas​
A+ -> A​
Yes​
Yes​
Yes​
Drop to A​
Muk-A​
A -> A-​
Abstain​
Yes​
Yes​
Drop to A-​
Garchomp-M​
C+ -> UR​
Abstain​
Yes​
Yes​
Removed​
Palkia​
C+ -> UR​
No​
Yes​
Yes​
Removed​
Ludicolo​
C -> C-​
Yes​
Yes​
Yes​
Drop to C-​
Shedinja​
C- -> UR​
Yes​
Yes​
Yes​
Removed​
Froslass​
D -> UR​
Yes​
Yes​
Yes​
Removed​


This post is also a reminder. Anyone is allowed to make a nomination for a rank change on the Pure Hackmons viability rankings, but there is a set of rules you must follow.

Rules for Nomination:

1) Be reasonable - Your post should be able to explain why you want a Pokemon's rank to change based on how effective it is against standard Pokemon in the metagame with their competitive sets. Don't just say Entei should be S rank because Burn Up is a "cool" move used to remove every weakness.

2) Come with a general understanding of the metagame - This goes along with the first rule. In order to make a nomination as accurate as possible, you require the ability to distinguish between what's good to use and what isn't good to use. A decent amount of experience playing the metagame in a fairly high level of competitive play is mandatory! An example of where you can find games of this field are games against council members!

3) Provide evidence - Post with evidence of your Pokemon's performance by showing replays and giving details about what Pokemon its greatest sets can and cannot properly deal with. Replays posted should be of games shown with each team made at least in a fairly high level of competitive play. Preferably ones against standard teams.

4) Be civil when debating with other users - Don't start to insult or name-call other users for having a differing opinion. It makes your own opinions look subjective, which is what we don't like to see.

You can also suggest for abilities to be added or removed from the Pure Hackmons VR. The abilities are intended to stay temporarily, but I try to condense the amount of abilities on each Pokemon to a maximum of three, depending on their effectiveness on the Pokemon.

That is it! If you have any questions or concerns, contact either me or the other two council members on Smogon, Pokemon Showdown, or Discord. If there seemed to be any errors on the VR that don't match the result of these changes, contact me immediately,
 
Edit: According to users on the bug report thread, this isn't a bug!

Recently people playing and watching Pure Hackmons tours have been surprised and confused by Protect-like moves failing to reduce damage from CFZs. At first I thought this may have been an undocumented property of King's Guard, but it occurs even with regular Protect, and I think now there is enough evidence to call this as a major (for PH) bug:-

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...t-before-posting.3634749/page-36#post-8081158
(Please correct me if anyone has tested this behaviour on an actual 3DS and it isn't a bug.)

If this is a recent change, it might go some way to explaining the explosive growth of Harvest meta... <_<'
 
Last edited:

Denial

formerly Lunala
is a Past WCoP Champion
Ehya, i played mnm lc a lot today and i had a lot of fun playing it, but the metagame looks pretty bad rn. Dratini seems too much centralizing in my opinion, forcing you to run random steel + blue orb, and even then its not hard to find Pokèmons that force youre opponent to get the check chipped.

168263

https://pokepast.es/d6f5b20807f4867c
168264

im still mad af that i chocked that one
This is the team that ive used all day long, and honestly it works pretty damn well. Sticky web helps you winning most of the priority wars, and makes me able to just click frustation and win games. Rn i think the only viable playstile is hyper offense, its really hard for balance to find mons that can avoid the 2hko from literally every mon with Diancite or an -ate ability. As i said, i really had fun playing this meta so im curious to see how it develops.
 

drampa's grandpa

cannonball
is a Community Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnus
Mix and Mega LC is the Leader's Choice for April!

drampa's grandpa
Yay mashup LCotM!

Ehya, i played mnm lc a lot today and i had a lot of fun playing it, but the metagame looks pretty bad rn. Dratini seems too much centralizing in my opinion, forcing you to run random steel + blue orb, and even then its not hard to find Pokèmons that force youre opponent to get the check chipped.

View attachment 168263
https://pokepast.es/d6f5b20807f4867c
View attachment 168264
im still mad af that i chocked that one
This is the team that ive used all day long, and honestly it works pretty damn well. Sticky web helps you winning most of the priority wars, and makes me able to just click frustation and win games. Rn i think the only viable playstile is hyper offense, its really hard for balance to find mons that can avoid the 2hko from literally every mon with Diancite or an -ate ability. As i said, i really had fun playing this meta so im curious to see how it develops.
This metagame is and will likely always be extremely hyper-offensive. LC and MnM both skew towards the offensive side of the spectrum so it's little wonder than something that combines both of them is as HO heavy as it is. You can try running standard Eviolite Pokemon, including Pokemon that are banned from standard LC. Pokemon like Scyther, Gligar, Tangela, and Misdreavus are legal in MnM LC, just can't hold stones. These will likely not make the meta bulky by anyone's standards, but they can actually usually tank a hit at least.

In my first dip into ladder I didn't find Dratini that centralizing or overpowered. Extreme Speed is obviously an amazing tool in this metagame but it's not strong enough to OHKO everything it wants to, it has ~as much trouble setting up as everything else in this metagame (IE predict the switch right or you're probably dead), and there are resists such as Red Orb abusers and Steel types to its Espeed STAB. I certainly won't close the door on it yet but I don't think it's QB-worthy.

What In do think merits discussion is Archen. I've found Archen to be on nearly every team. It is extremely strong, has priority, pivoting, hazards, and a good attacking type that renders it resistant to some common forms of priority. The only thing I see holding it back is its lack of an astounding speed tier and its reliance on an -ate stone for its primary STAB. Lati@site steels can take it on (unless Heat wave lol) and some things can check it once, but Archen's overwhelming power and the loss of the one thing that really held it back in LC (Defeatist and/or lack of great Flying STAB) really make it difficult to deal with in a game.

Sticky Web also seems incredibly good but I think I'll wait to see if anyone else wants to discuss that being overpowered because I'm not convinced it is yet.

As for resources this month I think the first resource I'm going to develop is a Speed Tier guide because idk about you guys but I get really confused about what hits what speed in this metagame what with things changing speed stats and being at level 5. So y'all can look forward to that.

In other news....
We now have the ability to add Tier Shift to mashups! We had a Mix and Mega Tier Shift tour last night and it was pretty awesome
We can also add Camomons, Almost Any Ability, and I believe STABmons directly to formats, which will change and improve the way we make some tours.

Let's make this month great guys :D
 


Type:
/

Stats: 41 HP / 104 Atk / 65 Def / 90 SpA / 50 SpD / 50 Spe


Type:
/

Stats: 41 HP / 94 Atk / 65 Def / 60 SpA / 70 SpD / 70 Spe

Alright, gonna say something about Dratini. Extreme Speed alone is what makes it so powerful, especially when getting STAB from either Altarianite or Pinsirite. It was strong that Dratini won't need to used Dragon Dance most of the time, unless you wanted to break through bulky mons. Altarianite is commonly used over Pinsirite for a reason; Fairy STAB is a good move and its 90 SpA were useful for its special movepool. In terms of
movepool, despite rather lacking to hit Fairy resist, STAB Outrage and Draco Meteor was so powerful enough to deal with some Poison or Fire mon. Though switching in is rather difficult given to how heavy offensive MnM LC meta is, even Dratini itself struggles to find some switch-in opportunities.

244+ Atk Pixilate Dratini Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagrossite Elekid: 19-24 (90.4 - 114.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
(19, 19, 19, 21, 21, 21, 21, 21, 21, 22, 22, 22, 22, 22, 22, 24)

Though, like Drampa mentioned,
Extreme Speed is obviously an amazing tool in this metagame but it's not strong enough to OHKO everything it wants to
244+ Atk Pixilate Dratini Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Pawniard: 16-19 (76.1 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Also, Dratini requires Stealth Rock support to put them in range of Espeed KOs

244+ Atk Pixilate Dratini Extreme Speed vs. 76 HP / 0 Def Archen: 16-21 (69.5 - 91.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

And of course, most Diancite user can't live STAB Espeed, i mean why would they survived it with their pitiful 1-5 Def stat anyway.

244+ Atk Pixilate Dratini Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Diancite Gastly: 18-22 (94.7 - 115.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
(18, 18, 19, 19, 19, 20, 20, 20, 20, 21, 21, 21, 21, 21, 21, 22)

I think the problem regarding dealing with Dratini is that most of its checks were surprisingly hard to fit on team,hindered by a lack of speed or little usefulness outside of checking Dratini. Some of them are also quite rare to find on the ladder. I rarely find some offensive Poison or Steels and Fire-Types couldn't do much in return due to Dratini's Dragon typing.

The one thing I need to mention was the Arena Trap being allowed on the ladder, with Diglett trapping all Fairy resist except those with Levitate, Ghost/Flying or Bug/Grass typing that let it take immune or neutral to Earthquake. Although, Diglett is not the main problem and Dratini can still able to do its job even without Diglett.

As for resources this month I think the first resource I'm going to develop is a Speed Tier guide because idk about you guys but I get really confused about what hits what speed in this metagame what with things changing speed stats and being at level 5. So y'all can look forward to that
Rip, I've already made the MnM LC Speed Tier here below my post. Though, I'm gonna update it soon to include others.
 
Wrk5646

A couple of questions about the Emboar suspect test in STAAABmons RU:-

1. When I run friendly tours in my timezone (usually around 13:00-17:00 UTC) sometimes people ask for more suspect tours. Is it permissible to run extra suspect tours, and if so are there rules about limiting frequency or needing to advertise the time slot in advance?

2. When will the ban/non-ban decision be reached?

Thank-you.
 
Wrk5646

A couple of questions about the Emboar suspect test in STAAABmons RU:-

1. When I run friendly tours in my timezone (usually around 13:00-17:00 UTC) sometimes people ask for more suspect tours. Is it permissible to run extra suspect tours, and if so are there rules about limiting frequency or needing to advertise the time slot in advance?

2. When will the ban/non-ban decision be reached?

Thank-you.
Alright, sorry about answering a bit late, school ends at 2:15 for me. I feel that as long you a moderate amount of people in a room, you can have a suspect tour. The tour has to have at least 4 people tho. Also save the final reply for me if possible.
 

Funbot28

Banned deucer.
Me and Averardo theorized a potential VR off of the MnM LC metagame based on our opinions solely. Here it is for context:

S-Rank:

Archen (Pinsirite, Lucarionite, Diancite)
Dratini (Altarianite, Pinsirite)

A-Rank:

A+

Gastly (Diancite, Lucarionite)
Pawniard (Lucarionite, Metagrossite)

A

Abra (Diancite, Altarianite)
Buneary (Lopunnite)
Elekid (Diancite, Red Orb, Pinsirite, Altarianite)
Surskit (Focus Sash, Gyaradosite, Choice Scarf)

A-

Scyther (Eviolite, Choice Scarf)
Sneasel (Life Orb)
Zigzagoon (Altarianite, Pinsirite, Lopunnite)

B-Rank:

B+

Aipom (Scizorite, Pinsirite, Altarianite)
Carvanha (Lucarionite, Sharpedonite, Blue Orb)
Doduo (Lopunnite, Salamencite)
Ferroseed (Blue Orb)
Ponyta (Red Orb, Altarianite)
Spritzee (Aggronite, Sablenite)

B

Diglett (Lucarionite, Gyaradosite, Lopunnite)
Gligar (Eviolite, Choice Scarf)
Honedge (Blue Orb, Latiosite, Latiasite)
Onix (Gyaradosite, Berry Juice, Pinsirite)
Vullaby (Lucarionite, Sablenite, Venusaurite)

B-

Foongus (Aggronite, Banettite)
Klink (Altarianite, Pinsirite, Scizorite)
Salandit (Diancite, Altarianite)
Taillow (Altarianite, Salamencite)
Trapinch (Altarianite, Pinsirite, Lucarionite)

C-Rank:

C

Corpish (Blue Orb)
Magby (Lopunnite)
Mienfoo (Altarianite, Pinsirite, Lopunnite, Manectite)
Riolu (Banettite)
Shelder (Heracronite, Scizorite)
Spinarak (Gyaradosite)
Vulpix (Light Clay, Banettite)
Basically -atespeed on a Dragon with decent power and DD = amazing mon in such an offensive meta, who knew! Anyways I felt this was worth sharing in order to discuss the top dogs and underrated threats currently.
 
Last edited:
Carvanha need a up because the Lucarionite is one of the best set of this meta. I see it A+.

Had Speed Boost before the mega evolution, allow to get +1, maybe a +2 on speed to outspeed a lot of pokemon (Diancite and co). Had Protect to set-up Speed Boost and dodge Fake out user. Had also a STAB priority move , Aqua-Jet. it will be hard to Revenge kill this pokemon. only Extreme speed can outspeed it.

Lucarionite give a boost on attack (+35) and on speed (+22) and the huge ability in this meta Adaptability.
Water / Dark is a good coverage (only 4 mons in LC who resist to that), Waterfall and Crunch will hit hard.

The only way to revenge Kill is Extreme Speed Pixilate (Altarianite)

This set is too powerful to deserve a B+ rank.

Also didn't agree with all ranking of Diancite (like Abra) because too much priority (all -ate stones)
 

Denial

formerly Lunala
is a Past WCoP Champion
In a meta where a fairy stab prio is in every team, I dont see how Carvanha is A+ worthy. It also needs to sacrifice coverage cause ure forced to run protect, so the opponent will always find something that walls you. It also touches ground, which makes it weak vs Sticky Web teams (the best playstile rn). Even Gligar and Schyter can reveng kill you if they use Choice Scarf.

Every diancite user can run another stone, so I dont see anything wrong here. I can agree with Abra, but Gastly himself posses Sucker Punch, which makes it a great diancite user, since it can deal with priority users.
 
Well,rip all my work on the mnm lc vr Ransei posted here hmm.... this VR seems great.

Heres my one thought so far:
I don't know why Noibat was even ranked there. If I have to guess, it has similar to Noivern but, Noibat doesn't get Boomburst :psycry:
But let me know why

Edit: Trapinch has been banned in Little Cup, this will affect our LC OMs as well.
And again, MnM LC and BH LC aren't affected. But feel free to discussed it here.
 
Last edited:
about MNM LC
drampa's grandpa whats the actual reasoning behind unbanning all of the lc ubers?
just because mnm is ubers based doesnt changed anything and doesnt force u to unban ubers for lc
lc ubers isnt usage based or is it anything like ubers where u just dump mons like the normal ou.
literally half those mons are used in higher tiers, gligar literally UU. THOSE mons are banned for very complex reasons and mashing with a ubers based meta isnt going to "unban" them because they are ubers. this isnt just for mnm lc, this should be for every lc based mash up there is
this has nothing to do with usage. and every LC meta should be treated the same wa

everyone is talking about dratini etc, but none of those lc ubers should be allowed.
this isnt about how good or how bad there are. they are influencing the meta more than any lc mon in the tier with or without mega stones.
the stats added onto a mon from a mega literally dont matter at all besides new speed tiers and new abilities. evio is still better for most mons
and evio on any lc uber is still better than any mon with a mega stone or at least more centralizing.

also a comment about the vr.
i know there's always going to be criticisms but scyther/sneasel/tangela are all s rank mons and even more lc ubers
archen is def not s. they are faster/stronger mons than archen. vull/abra/gasta/pawn/darm and lots more. nothing is special about archen all it gets is stronger stab and thats it. donkey/tirg/star/baby pex literally shits on this mon.
surskit is not a A mon.
why is vull so low
WHY IS GLIGAR NOT S
i understand that vr is probably not perfect, but its not a good representation of the meta at all.
anyways
i believe that this meta have to start at ground zero and work its way up. (banning all lc uber --> potentially unbanning some lc ubers that arent problematic and also banning the broken mons with stones-->thus making a meta that has its own balance and not literally having BROKEN CHECKING BROKEN EVERY TIME) because apparently people think drantini is the best mon in the tier when there's wack shit like zconversion baby pz/ bolt beam pony/literally goth that traps literally every mon in the tier and kills it, also lives and kills dratini
everyone's talking about how good dratini is and how its a must to have prio, which isnt true, already topped/undefeated on the ladder without it. i think the focus should be shifted elsewhere because no one is talking about these lc ubers WHICH ARE CLEARLY the best in the tier.
all of those lc ubers if not most are too centralizing and puts way too much stain on teambuilding but no one is going to complain because there's already no point in defensive checks to those mons and teambuilding has already gone to shit. there's checks to every mon that can hold a mega stone all of them are fine and balanced however, the lc ubers dont need stones because they are bulkier/stronger and have better abilities. the only reason the meta is lc ubers, they prevent u from running the checks to the mons people think u need. example: espeed. espeed is great but its not something u need or something thats "broken" or centralized. we have the checks so use them however those checks arent viable at all. no one is running tirg in a meta with tangela

i guess its just a mash up but man this should be handled much better, im probably only one of the few who played this back then
 
Last edited:

Denial

formerly Lunala
is a Past WCoP Champion
Well,rip all my work on the mnm lc vr Ransei posted here hmm.... this VR seems great.

Heres my one thought so far:
I don't know why Noibat was even ranked there. If I have to guess, it has similar to Noivern but, Noibat doesn't get Boomburst :psycry:
But let me know why
Ups thanks for letting us know kek
 
Alright, sorry about answering a bit late, school ends at 2:15 for me. I feel that as long you a moderate amount of people in a room, you can have a suspect tour. The tour has to have at least 4 people tho. Also save the final reply for me if possible.
Thank-you! We generally have around 5 people playing in STAAAB RU friendly tours at that time so it shouldn't be a problem to reach 4 in a suspect tour I think.

So I plan to run a STAAABMons RU Emboar suspect test tour tomorrow (April 4th) at 15:00 UTC. Since this is a suspect tour, scouting will be banned and there will be a 5 min autodq timer to fairly deal with potential time-stalling, so please build beforehand if you plan to participate.

about MNM LC
drampa's grandpa whats the actual reasoning behind unbanning all of the lc ubers?
just because mnm is ubers based doesnt changed anything and doesnt force u to unban ubers for lc
lc ubers isnt usage based or is it anything like ubers where u just dump mons like the normal ou.
literally half those mons are used in higher tiers, gligar literally UU. THOSE mons are banned for very complex reasons and mashing with a ubers based meta isnt going to "unban" them because they are ubers. this isnt just for mnm lc, this should be for every lc based mash up there is
this has nothing to do with usage. and every LC meta should be treated the same wa
Neither Ubers nor LC Ubers have any relation to usage in the tier below them, being defined as banlists for OU and LC respectively. I believe they are, as the names suggest, analogous as tiers. If you want to argue in favour of a ban for Gligar or another LC Uber that is fine, but the logical basis of using LC Ubers as an Ubers tier for LC mashups seems coherent.

Eviolite is the main circumstantial difference from vanilla MnM (and the reason the likes of Gligar can be used in UU), so perhaps that could be considered for a ban or restriction to mons that are allowed to mega-evolve, if Ubers are shown to be overwhelming (this wasn't the case during spotlight, however).
 
Last edited:
I think I'm starting to convinced myself a little. If we were going to start banning LC Ubers, then it would be Scyther, Sneasel and Gligar first, Tangela would be left untouched but might joined too, if its Chlorophyll sets or something still proved problematic ( I haven't encountered Chlorophyll Tangela yet ). Because they were still hard to check.

Scyther is just so fast and it U-turns out on whats going to stop it if they're slower than it
Sneasel has its strong STAB and a priority.
Gligar was rather hard to check too. This isn't about defensive set. It can still run its offensive AcroGar set.

The few LC Uber i've seen that aren't problematic was like Vulpix, Wingull, Drifloon and the recent Trapinch.
 

Best Gal

once upon a time wont last forever
I genuinely cannot see LC Ubers needing a ban. Any of them. You could not convince me that they need to go prior to getting rid of the far more problematic mons (Archen and Dratini, even Abra are far more prevalent)

Eviolite Scyther, Band Sneasel, Eviolite Gligar- they all get absolutely bodied by the current metagame threats. Calling them a problem is nothing short of silly.
 

Deleted User 350996

Banned deucer.
Hey guys, any thoughts on the following sets?

Gastly @ Diancite
Ability: Levitate
Level: 5
EVs: 36 Def / 196 SpA / 76 SpD / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Dazzling Gleam
- Destiny Bond
>> Weak to any priorities but fast and powerful.

Doduo @ Lopunnite
Ability: Early Bird
Level: 5
Happiness: 0
EVs: 236 Atk / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Frustration
- Jump Kick
- Quick Attack
- Swords Dance
>> This is basically a M-Lopunny but with SD...

Totodile @ Charizardite X
Ability: Torrent
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Dragon Claw
- Superpower / Crunch
>> Water/Dragon is a very cool type even if Dragons are terrible in LC. It doesn't like Dratini tho.

Klink @ Altarianite
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 5
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 0
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shift Gear
- Gear Grind
- Frustration
- Magnet Rise
>> Excellent typing. It acts as a Dratini check and can be immunised to Earthquake. It doesn't hit Ferro' unfortunately.

Geodude-Alola @ Mewtwonite X
Ability: Magnet Pull
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Rock Blast
- Fire Punch
- Autotomize
>> Talking about Ferro, this may be the solution since Magnemite can't hit it with HP Fire because of Blue Orb. Geodude hits very hard with a STABd Superpower. Fire Punch is for Bronzor but I haven't seen it so much...

Smoochum @ Cameruptite
Ability: Forewarn
Level: 5
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 156 HP / 236 SpA / 76 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
>> I know that TR isn't a thing in LC but that set looks nice: spammable dual STAB boosted with Sheer Force.
 

Best Gal

once upon a time wont last forever
A couple of MnM LC sets

168497

Phanpy @ Sablenite
Ability: Sand Veil
Level: 5
EVs: 116 Atk / 196 Def / 196 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Shard

Somehow this thing, despite being just a random mon I tried out, has actually been pretty clutch

Nobody uses Gyaradosite for some reason, there aren't many things that OHKO this and pretty much everything that tries is frail enough to die to EQ (Dratini, Abra, Carvanha, etc.)

and also this thing

168498

Bulbasaur @ Blue Orb
Ability: Overgrow
Level: 5
EVs: 236 SpA / 236 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Weather Ball
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Sleep Powder

Definitely the inferior weather to run but it catches a lot of people off guard and hits really hard
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top