Project OM Mashup Megathread

[manu 11]

i'm going to save y'alls the verbose post and just get to the point:

STAAAB melmetal is broken, ban this uber to STAAAB ubers where it belongs

Is melmetal really busted actually ? Sure Double Iron Bash is crazy powerful and melmetal's stats are great but to me it seems tinted lens is the problem. Melmetal is a good poke obviously but what really makes it stand out is tinted lens as it allows melmetal to destroy its usual counters like corviknight, golisopod or cobalion, pokes with huge defensive stats and a typing that should advantage them. Since tinted lens beats the type advantage, you can only use high defense stat to counter melmetal but finding a poke with above 140 defense isn't easy in gen 8. Not only do they need defense, they also need recovery. If not recovery, they need something to KO melmetal directly and that is not easily done when this thing has 135hp/143def/65spdef. All those factors limit the number of viable poke that can switch on tinted lens melmetal.

Tinted Lens Melmetal also benefits from the amount of slow u-turn/volt switch users in staaabmons and come in safely on any poke that can't threaten it. Either you have a physical wall that can tank double iron bash on the switch or you lose a poke. Moreover, even if you have a physical wall, if it's not stamina, it usually just gets overwhelmed. It's not like there is no counterplay either to TL melmetal but being forced to run stamina or some very specific set just to really counter melmetal alone doesn't seems that healthy. Without Tinted lens, melmetal is good but not the busted thing it is right now. Usual counters mentionned above can check it without too much trouble then.

I feel banning melmetal isn't a good thing because Tinted Lens is the obvious broken thing here not the poke. Pokemon is a game based on types and Tinted Lens breaks that balance. Inteleon is another poke that just becomes incredible because of tinted lens but is otherwise just good. In the same way TL melmetal forces you to have stamina, TL inteleon basically forces you to run water absorb/desolate land (and even that isn't always enough due to weather ball). Just to clarify, those 2 pokes are obviously not comparable in terms of stats but TL does the same for both, make them extremely threatening.

So yeah that was my 2 cents on melmetal in staaabmons.

 

[Tranquility]

Going to post some thoughts on TSAAA (Great spotlight btw!)

(Eviolite) - I haven't really had too much of a problem with it being allowed, sure it allows the already boosted NFE/LC Mons become even more bulky, but in general with the amount of offensive threats there is it's not overwhelming right now imo.

- This mon is really good, specifically the electric and flying versions. Electric has stab bolt and paired with sheerforce and life orb it makes it really good as just an all around breaker. Silvally-Flying with also just a nuke, Aerilate is really good paired with ground memory makes it have few switch ins and the ones that can switch in, the siv user can just boom in its face.

- I've found a lot of success with this mon, not any major boosts but with specs + Desolate its an absolute nuke. Access to trick too allows it to cripple any eviolite mons that would be switch ins.

 

[The Number Man]

STAAAB forum tour has finally finished, thank you to Drampa for hosting and to everyone who participated - congrats to Multi for beating Gal and me in finals. This means that I can finally update VR, dump my teams and announce some other stuff. WARNING - very long post ahead, but it will be broken into segments.

1) STAAAB IS GETTING A COUNCIL - I've been the lone tier leader of STAAAB for a while, so I am happy to announce that I am forming a council - joining me are ice-master-523 , manu 11 and Best Gal (sorry i cant seem to tag you reee). Ideally i wanna have an odd number of people on the council, so if anyone else is interested pm me - either here or on discord preferably, cuz on PS i get dcd frequently and I might not see your message.

2) TEAM DUMP - from finals to r3, wont be posting the earlier ones cuz they're outdated

teams

https://pokepast.es/f2fe55f845a5fe91 - eterrain offense (vs multi in finals r2) - i decided to go back to my roots here after using balance the whole tour and neither rain nor sun seemed feasible, so i settled on electric terrain. the team seemed to perform pretty well, altho togekiss turned out to be tougher than i had anticipated - i thought rotom would have to issues 1v1ing it, but perhaps i shoulda chosen a different form. while writing this i realised that my cobalion had a ridiculously good mu - i definitely should have played it better cuz it had 5-0 potential after dragapult was gone.

https://pokepast.es/e1b8321e436e2036 - corvi kommo oven balance feat regenLO weez (vs gal in finals r2) - pretty standard balance, the only real weird set is weezing - i wanted a kommo counter and a tspiker - hence weezing and i wanted it tohave some offensive pressure and possibly catch some steel types off guard hence LO moonblast + fire blast

https://pokepast.es/a5a77b43388cea8a - kommo noivern tspikes (vs multi in finals r1) - im not sure how good this team is. It did perform pretty well in testing but then i ran into adapt band pult + magpull the one time i didnt bring a fairy and got dismantled, so it probably needs a few fixes (maybe weezng over tox lol).

https://pokepast.es/bfd531fe86ec1232 - prima lax corvi balance (vs gal in finals r1, g1) - again a pretty standard balance team. corvi prima and lax cover a lot of threats. regen kommo w meteor can lure dragapults that expect no dragon stab by ID on the switch and clicking meteor on their thief/darts. the team is completed by a ghostspam of specsgar + scarfpult, the latter of which serves as speed control vs stuff that cant be answered defensively.

https://pokepast.es/03ae3496642c7817 - slowpivot bulky offense (vs gal in finals r1, g2) - similar to my above team - featuring the normal steel water/fight resist defensive core, except that this one sacrifices pheal longevity uturn momentum into strong breakers like gengar and ttar, with togekiss or cobalion acting as a wincon in the lategame

https://pokepast.es/7cff3a682a62162f - triage kiss + dragonspam BO (vs drampa, r4, g3) - the coba pod null core shows up again - it works pretty well vs a lot of stuff. this time i decided to support it with "dragonspam" - hydra and pult work pretty well together, as once you kill a fairy with either of them the other can click dragon stab much more freely. they also chip down fat normals which are the best togekiss answer, so lategame kiss can find sweeping opportunities.

https://pokepast.es/f9a8204ad14fa0db - grass spam + magpull (vs drampa, r4, g2)- this team isnt very good either. i might be biased cuz i got smashed by trip hydra the one time i didnt bring kommo/cobalion, but i still dont think this is a good team.

https://pokepast.es/422af123e076e385 - noivern pult dragon spam (vs drampa, r4, g1)- again, fat balance feat dragonspam. in hindsight i think this team needs a magpuller like rotom heat, but other than that its pretty decent. not my best though - i lucked into a pretty much unlosable matchup.

https://pokepast.es/1b7940bc5fb3fb44 -noivern pult dragonspam + magpull (vs riceman, r3) - this team is a better version of the above one as i can draw out corvis and stuff with pult/vern, trap em and freely spam attacks w noivern/pult. Primarina and cobalion are both terrifying wincons in their own right.

3) THOUGHTS ON THE META

With the tour over I feel like I've got a good grasp on the metagame. Let's start with individual mons:


I know i havent used this thing once in a tour game, but trust me when i say this thing is a monster. Granted, most of it's power comes from tinted lens, but it still has amazing bulk and terrifying breaking potential, as well as the ability to run defensive sets.


This has no switchins barring AV escavalier. SFLO is the most common set and it 2hkos the premier two special walls null/lax w focus blast and isnt really threatened by anything they can do back to it due to its Uber statline. Spdef Syl can tank it, but that goes out of the window if Kyu runs Icicle crash, Iron head or Flash cannon, all of them kill after an ice beam.


Pretty much the same as Kyurem. Has multiple viable sets - SFLO, adapt choice, no guard nasty plot etc. The only things that switch in are chople/bproof Ttar, bproof bish (lmao), snorlax and mandibuzz. The only thing holding it back is its bad bulk and lack of speed boosting but it still manages to get at least one kill every game if played well and your +2 focus blast actually hits the damn tyranitar.

i lost to this in finals so I am quickbanning it, effective immediately! Jk

This thing continues to impress. At first i was just using the regen body press variant as a budget Kommo-o, but it actually turned out to be better than kommo in certain situations. This thing has an insane speed tier, and after an ID nothing physical is beating it 1v1. This means that the only real offensive checks are Gengar, Noivern, Inteleon, Triage mons and Dragapult (to an extent and depends on the set). But it turns out that MGLO special Cobalion (credits go to Gal for showing me just how terrifying it can be) can be just as good if not better. Fighting + Steel is great coverage when a lot of people are opting for normal + fairy defensive cores due to the presence of Dragapult and the 108 speed tier makes a big difference when it comes to beating out its competitor Lucario. In a meta where Kyurem is such a big deal, being slower than it means you kinda need webs support to function as a breaker.

This is another extremely powerful mon. Ironically, its best set is the standard AAA pheal primarina, but the lack of strong physical mons that hit it SE means that it can put enormous pressure on unprepared teams after 1 or 2 calm minds. It also has a great defensive typing that lets it naturally check a lot of powerful mons (kommo, pult, cobalion, hydra...).

Gen8 Chansey basically, plus it gets u-turn.

CORES:

If you've watched my replays or checked my dump, you'll see that some of my teams look pretty samey. They often feature a fat normal + steel type + water type that resists fighting defensive core. This is because the combination really lets you check pretty much anything not named kyurem. Examples of this defensive core are:

/

Another good balance core is rotom-oven + kommo + corviknight, although it does usually need support from a fat normal type.

+ havent used this in a tour game but was considering bringing it. this is a nice steelspam core that lets melmetal break down bisharp checks which enables bisharp to just mow through teams with Adapt+LO boosted stabs.

4) CLOSING THOUGHTS

I feel like the meta is in a decent place right now, excluding some obvious offenders. I've been putting a lot of thought into the earlier bannings and it's possible that banning Vcreate was not the right move, as Fire types other than rotom oven are pretty much nonexistent right now - there is just no payoff for using them that justifies the rocks weakness and possibility of getting blanked by FF mons.

The things that need to be looked at are Tinted Lens/Melmetal, Kyurem and Gengar and possibly some other stuff. Personally, I firmly believe that Tinted Lens is the issue, not Melmetal. Even steelworker melmetal can be walled by resists, but tinted lens just breaks everything that isnt Stamina/Intimidate. We will either quickban or suspect all three of these things - the suspects won't be concurrent, ideally we get to suspect one thing at a time. The following week will be used to evaluate our priorities and the first suspect can hopefully start next Sunday.

If you have anything to add on the issues I've brought up please do, as I'd love to hear your input on what you believe are problematic elements in the metagame. Also post so I can post the updated STAAAB VR tomorrow without doubleposting.

 

[Tranquility]

This is just my own Opinion but I'd hold off on Suspecting Gar when Chansey and the Rest of DLC wave 1 shows up then, and besides then a potential tinted Lens can open up some team building space towards checks to Gar. I think Kyu should get the hammer or suspected either way as it can run a physical move to Bop any spdef fairy's or w/e.

I think what Manu said in his post regarding melm is 100% right, What makes Melmetal so good is an ability that breaks a central mechanic in type-weaknesses and we've seen other abusers such on the special side such as intel use it to great success too.

Anyways some things I'd like to comment on:

- This mon is already pretty great now with triage and SFLO, and once DLC drops and access to O-Wing it might be over the edge. In my experience the SFLO set can just 6-0 bulky team's and Triage is good vs more offensive teams. It could be something to look into too especially after the DLC.

- The thing with this mon is that it's natural bulk and access to a lot of good abilities makes it one of the best Pivots. Only thing is idt it's that great of a spinner since it allows ghosts to come in super freely with that, and in a lot of times just loses momentum when it can be running other options to support the team.

(Thank me later for u not double posting tnm :p)

 

[drampa's grandpa]

This is just my own Opinion but I'd hold off on Suspecting Gar when Chansey and the Rest of DLC wave 1 shows up

I think what most metas are doing is resuspecting possibly unban worthy mons / moves / abilities / other things when the DLC drops. This seems more in line with Smogon tiering policy as a whole, and is what I would in general encourage mashups councils to do.

EDIT: To clarify: if more than one thing is an issue it's ok to prioritize suspects and bans of stuff that will likely still be issues post DLC, however refusing to ban something based on theorymon and possibilities can leave us with problems for months.

 

[InvalidOS]

Salazzle is very similar to Chandelure. Its Desolate Land set can deal massive damage with Eruption and Blue Flare, even to anything that resists. Here are some calcs, including some against mons not present in Gen 8:

252 SpA Choice Specs Salazzle Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Primarina in Harsh Sunshine: 160-189 (43.9 - 51.9%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252 SpA Choice Specs Salazzle Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Primarina: 270-320 (74.1 - 87.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252 SpA Choice Specs Salazzle Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rhyperior in Harsh Sunshine: 398-468 (91.7 - 107.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Salazzle Blue Flare vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rhyperior in Harsh Sunshine: 344-405 (79.2 - 93.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Salazzle Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex in Harsh Sunshine: 138-162 (45.3 - 53.2%) -- 91.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Salazzle Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Harsh Sunshine: 313-370 (44.4 - 52.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

The only Pokemon I know of that can safely switch in are Flash Fire mons, Primordial Sea mons, and Coalossal.

252 SpA Choice Specs Salazzle Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Coalossal in Harsh Sunshine: 95-112 (22.4 - 26.4%) -- 96.5% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Salazzle can just poison Coalossal, however. Flash Fire steel types are safe against Salazzle.
Rotom-Heat can also do similar things, with much better coverage backing it up, but is slower compared to Salazzle. Overall, I'd say both are equally threatening.

Inteleon is also an extremely powerful weather abuser, this time with Primordial Sea.

252 SpA Choice Specs Inteleon Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Primarina in Heavy Rain: 174-205 (47.8 - 56.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Need I say more?

 

[Tmi489]

alazzle is very similar to Chandelure. Its Desolate Land set can deal massive damage with Eruption and Blue Flare, even to anything that resists. Here are some calcs, including some against mons not present in Gen 8:
snip
The only Pokemon I know of that can safely switch in are Flash Fire mons, Primordial Sea mons, and Coalossal.

Salazzle can just poison Coalossal, however. Flash Fire steel types are safe against Salazzle.

Rocks reduce Eruption's effectiveness and prevent the times Salazze can switch in. Salazzle also gets hardwalled by Regenvest TTar, which I don't think is a huge stretch to see, and the amount of walls increase after Rocks removes Eruption (such as Lax, Null, and Pex).

What I think Salazzle does best is SFLO Nasty Plot. It pretty has no coverage, so you can run status moves like Wisp, Sub, and Encore for little opportunity cost. These moves let you set up for free at times, or at least punish your switchins. You still get hardwalled by the same mons but can sweep through teams instead of breaking them.

 

[Roldski32]

With STAAABmons forum tour came to an end, here is the overall usage stats:
If you want to check a certain round usage stat, then check it on the discord.

Top 10

STAAABmons Tour Overall Usage Stat
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Dragapult          |   55 |  45.08% |  56.36% |
| 2    | Corviknight        |   39 |  31.97% |  51.28% |
| 2    | Kommo-o            |   39 |  31.97% |  53.85% |
| 4    | Ferrothorn         |   29 |  23.77% |  48.48% |
| 5    | Golisopod          |   27 |  22.13% |  55.55% |
| 5    | Rotom-Heat         |   27 |  22.13% |  48.15% |
| 7    | Sylveon            |   25 |  20.69% |  48.00% |
| 8    | Zeraora            |   24 |  19.67% |  50.00% |
| 9    | Snorlax            |   23 |  18.85% |  65.22% |
| 10   | Type: Null         |   22 |  18.03% |  45.45% |
| 11   | Tyranitar          |   21 |  17.21% |  38.09% |
| 12   | Gengar             |   19 |  15.57% |  68.42% |
| 13   | Togekiss           |   17 |  13.93% |  52.94% |
| 14   | Mandibuzz          |   16 |  13.11% |  68.75% |
| 15   | Mew                |   15 |  12.30% |  46.67% |
| 16   | Hydreigon          |   14 |  11.48% |  64.26% |
| 17   | Cobalion           |   13 |  10.66% |  53.84% |
| 18   | Celebi             |   12 |   9.84% |  41.67% |
| 18   | Hippowdon          |   12 |   9.84% |  50.00% |
| 18   | Melmetal           |   12 |   9.84% |  25.00% |
| 21   | Jirachi            |   11 |   9.02% |  45.45% |
| 21   | Primarina          |   11 |   9.02% |  45.45% |
| 23   | Cinderace          |   10 |   8.20% |  60.00% |
| 23   | Inteleon           |   10 |   8.20% |  20.00% |
| 23   | Toxapex            |   10 |   8.20% |  50.00% |
| 26   | Darmanitan         |    8 |   6.56% |  25.00% |
| 26   | Escavalier         |    8 |   6.56% |  75.00% |
| 26   | Noivern            |    8 |   6.56% |  50.00% |
| 29   | Excadrill          |    7 |   5.74% |  42.86% |
| 29   | Gyarados           |    7 |   5.74% |  71.42% |
| 29   | Lucario            |    7 |   5.74% |  14.29% |
| 32   | Dracovish          |    6 |   4.92% |   0.00% |
| 32   | Heliolisk          |    6 |   4.92% |  33.33% |
| 32   | Obstagoon          |    6 |   4.92% |  83.33% |
| 35   | Chandelure         |    5 |   4.10% |  60.00% |
| 35   | Decidueye          |    5 |   4.10% |  60.00% |
| 35   | Grimmsnarl         |    5 |   4.10% |   0.00% |
| 35   | Mamoswine          |    5 |   4.10% |  80.00% |
| 35   | Rotom-Mow          |    5 |   4.10% |  80.00% |
| 40   | Coalossal          |    4 |   3.28% |  75.00% |
| 40   | Rotom-Wash         |    4 |   3.28% |  50.00% |
| 42   | Bewear             |    3 |   2.46% |   0.00% |
| 42   | Braviary           |    3 |   2.46% |  66.67% |
| 42   | Gardevoir          |    3 |   2.46% | 100.00% |
| 42   | Kyurem             |    3 |   2.46% |  33.33% |
| 42   | Polteageist        |    3 |   2.46% |  33.33% |
| 42   | Shuckle            |    3 |   2.46% |   0.00% |
| 42   | Weavile            |    3 |   2.46% |   0.00% |
| 49   | Arctovish          |    2 |   1.64% |  50.00% |
| 49   | Bisharp            |    2 |   1.64% |   0.00% |
| 49   | Dhelmise           |    2 |   1.64% | 100.00% |
| 49   | Doublade           |    2 |   1.64% |  50.00% |
| 49   | Goodra             |    2 |   1.64% |   0.00% |
| 49   | Incineroar         |    2 |   1.64% |   0.00% |
| 49   | Pangoro            |    2 |   1.64% |  50.00% |
| 49   | Rotom-Fan          |    2 |   1.64% |  50.00% |
| 49   | Runerigus          |    2 |   1.64% |  50.00% |
| 49   | Sirfetch'd         |    2 |   1.64% | 100.00% |
| 49   | Toxtricity         |    2 |   1.64% |  50.00% |
| 49   | Vikavolt           |    2 |   1.64% | 100.00% |
| 61   | Appletun           |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Arcanine           |    1 |   0.82% | 100.00% |
| 61   | Arctozolt          |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Aromatisse         |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Barbaracle         |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Barraskewda        |    1 |   0.82% | 100.00% |
| 61   | Clefable           |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Corsola-Galar      |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Crawdaunt          |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Duraludon          |    1 |   0.82% | 100.00% |
| 61   | Durant             |    1 |   0.82% | 100.00% |
| 61   | Flareon            |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Gastrodon          |    1 |   0.82% | 100.00% |
| 61   | Glaceon            |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Hatterene          |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Indeedee           |    1 |   0.82% | 100.00% |
| 61   | Lanturn            |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Necrozma           |    1 |   0.82% | 100.00% |
| 61   | Oranguru           |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Reuniclus          |    1 |   0.82% | 100.00% |
| 61   | Rillaboom          |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Shiinotic          |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Stunfisk           |    1 |   0.82% | 100.00% |
| 61   | Umbreon            |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Vaporeon           |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Vespiquen          |    1 |   0.82% | 100.00% |
| 61   | Virizion           |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Weezing-Galar      |    1 |   0.82% | 100.00% |
| 61   | Wobbuffet          |    1 |   0.82% | 100.00% |

Feel free to post your thought on this thread.

 

[Tmi489]

| 1 | Dragapult | 55 | 45.08% | 56.36% |

the king of staaab
at least when zeraora was banned, imagine the usage without 'ora

| 7 | Sylveon | 25 | 20.69% | 48.00% |

surprisingly high (and none of them other than mine were specs?)

| 18 | Melmetal | 12 | 9.84% | 25.00% |

pretty low (esp. wr) but this was either bc tinted wasnt used as much as it was or people overprepped with magpull

| 35 | Chandelure | 5 | 4.10% | 60.00% |

also low, even with the ban i thought it would be used more

| 42 | Kyurem | 3 | 2.46% | 33.33% |

even lower but again people didnt catch on until the end

| 14 | Mandibuzz | 16 | 13.11% | 68.75% |

why does this thing have such a high wr

 

[Tranquility]

Ferrothorn being 4th despite being walled by like half of the current meta is pretty hilarious.

 

[InvalidOS]

With STAAABmons forum tour came to an end, here is the overall usage stats:
If you want to check a certain round usage stat, then check it on the discord.

Top 10

STAAABmons Tour Overall Usage Stat
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Dragapult          |   55 |  45.08% |  56.36% |
| 2    | Corviknight        |   39 |  31.97% |  51.28% |
| 2    | Kommo-o            |   39 |  31.97% |  53.85% |
| 4    | Ferrothorn         |   29 |  23.77% |  48.48% |
| 5    | Golisopod          |   27 |  22.13% |  55.55% |
| 5    | Rotom-Heat         |   27 |  22.13% |  48.15% |
| 7    | Sylveon            |   25 |  20.69% |  48.00% |
| 8    | Zeraora            |   24 |  19.67% |  50.00% |
| 9    | Snorlax            |   23 |  18.85% |  65.22% |
| 10   | Type: Null         |   22 |  18.03% |  45.45% |
| 11   | Tyranitar          |   21 |  17.21% |  38.09% |
| 12   | Gengar             |   19 |  15.57% |  68.42% |
| 13   | Togekiss           |   17 |  13.93% |  52.94% |
| 14   | Mandibuzz          |   16 |  13.11% |  68.75% |
| 15   | Mew                |   15 |  12.30% |  46.67% |
| 16   | Hydreigon          |   14 |  11.48% |  64.26% |
| 17   | Cobalion           |   13 |  10.66% |  53.84% |
| 18   | Celebi             |   12 |   9.84% |  41.67% |
| 18   | Hippowdon          |   12 |   9.84% |  50.00% |
| 18   | Melmetal           |   12 |   9.84% |  25.00% |
| 21   | Jirachi            |   11 |   9.02% |  45.45% |
| 21   | Primarina          |   11 |   9.02% |  45.45% |
| 23   | Cinderace          |   10 |   8.20% |  60.00% |
| 23   | Inteleon           |   10 |   8.20% |  20.00% |
| 23   | Toxapex            |   10 |   8.20% |  50.00% |
| 26   | Darmanitan         |    8 |   6.56% |  25.00% |
| 26   | Escavalier         |    8 |   6.56% |  75.00% |
| 26   | Noivern            |    8 |   6.56% |  50.00% |
| 29   | Excadrill          |    7 |   5.74% |  42.86% |
| 29   | Gyarados           |    7 |   5.74% |  71.42% |
| 29   | Lucario            |    7 |   5.74% |  14.29% |
| 32   | Dracovish          |    6 |   4.92% |   0.00% |
| 32   | Heliolisk          |    6 |   4.92% |  33.33% |
| 32   | Obstagoon          |    6 |   4.92% |  83.33% |
| 35   | Chandelure         |    5 |   4.10% |  60.00% |
| 35   | Decidueye          |    5 |   4.10% |  60.00% |
| 35   | Grimmsnarl         |    5 |   4.10% |   0.00% |
| 35   | Mamoswine          |    5 |   4.10% |  80.00% |
| 35   | Rotom-Mow          |    5 |   4.10% |  80.00% |
| 40   | Coalossal          |    4 |   3.28% |  75.00% |
| 40   | Rotom-Wash         |    4 |   3.28% |  50.00% |
| 42   | Bewear             |    3 |   2.46% |   0.00% |
| 42   | Braviary           |    3 |   2.46% |  66.67% |
| 42   | Gardevoir          |    3 |   2.46% | 100.00% |
| 42   | Kyurem             |    3 |   2.46% |  33.33% |
| 42   | Polteageist        |    3 |   2.46% |  33.33% |
| 42   | Shuckle            |    3 |   2.46% |   0.00% |
| 42   | Weavile            |    3 |   2.46% |   0.00% |
| 49   | Arctovish          |    2 |   1.64% |  50.00% |
| 49   | Bisharp            |    2 |   1.64% |   0.00% |
| 49   | Dhelmise           |    2 |   1.64% | 100.00% |
| 49   | Doublade           |    2 |   1.64% |  50.00% |
| 49   | Goodra             |    2 |   1.64% |   0.00% |
| 49   | Incineroar         |    2 |   1.64% |   0.00% |
| 49   | Pangoro            |    2 |   1.64% |  50.00% |
| 49   | Rotom-Fan          |    2 |   1.64% |  50.00% |
| 49   | Runerigus          |    2 |   1.64% |  50.00% |
| 49   | Sirfetch'd         |    2 |   1.64% | 100.00% |
| 49   | Toxtricity         |    2 |   1.64% |  50.00% |
| 49   | Vikavolt           |    2 |   1.64% | 100.00% |
| 61   | Appletun           |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Arcanine           |    1 |   0.82% | 100.00% |
| 61   | Arctozolt          |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Aromatisse         |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Barbaracle         |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Barraskewda        |    1 |   0.82% | 100.00% |
| 61   | Clefable           |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Corsola-Galar      |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Crawdaunt          |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Duraludon          |    1 |   0.82% | 100.00% |
| 61   | Durant             |    1 |   0.82% | 100.00% |
| 61   | Flareon            |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Gastrodon          |    1 |   0.82% | 100.00% |
| 61   | Glaceon            |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Hatterene          |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Indeedee           |    1 |   0.82% | 100.00% |
| 61   | Lanturn            |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Necrozma           |    1 |   0.82% | 100.00% |
| 61   | Oranguru           |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Reuniclus          |    1 |   0.82% | 100.00% |
| 61   | Rillaboom          |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Shiinotic          |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Stunfisk           |    1 |   0.82% | 100.00% |
| 61   | Umbreon            |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Vaporeon           |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Vespiquen          |    1 |   0.82% | 100.00% |
| 61   | Virizion           |    1 |   0.82% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Weezing-Galar      |    1 |   0.82% | 100.00% |
| 61   | Wobbuffet          |    1 |   0.82% | 100.00% |

Feel free to post your thought on this thread.

sirfetch’d goat

 

[The Number Man]

As promised, Im posting the updated STAAAB VR. Thanks to everyone who provided input during its creation. Each rank is sorted alphabetically.

And if anyone is interested in the rationale behind the S and A+ rank mons, click the box below.

Reasoning

Corviknight - Great bulk and defensive typing make this into an amazing defensive pivot. The variety of viable abilities means you are never really sure what it's running, making it hard to pressure it properly - you don't wanna click specs Eruption on it until you are sure it's not Flash Fire. The threat of VA/FF means that there's few mons that actually reliably force it out when you dont know the ability yet (meaning it has to switch out, not just uturn out) and those are Specs Inteleon, Specs Gengar, Hydreigon, Rotom Heat and Kyurem to an extent. It's extremely splashable and extremely customizable.

Dragapult - The king of STAAAB as Tmi said. This mon is the fastest mon in the meta excluding unmons like ninjask and accelgor. With Band/Specs it's an amazng wallbreaker. With Scarf it's the best speed control option since Ditto. It can run many different sets and all of them are very easy to fit on a team.

Kyurem - The best wallbreaker in the meta currently. Not gonna say much else as I've covered it in my previous post.

Null + Lax - Chansey's successors. Fat normal types are insanely strong, as they only have one weakness making them perfect unaware walls as long as you can handle fighting types with something else. Both have inflated stats, letting them wall special attackers through sheer bulk - which makes them autoincludes on balance teams that need to cover a wide variety of threats in one slot. Null's advantage is better physical bulk and access to U-Turn, whereas Lax gets to run Pheal, hit Ghosts more reliably and doesn't fear Knock off/Trick as much. I don't know why Null has such a low winrate, but Lax's 65% winrate with an almost 20% usage rate is very indicative of its power.

Cobalion, Gengar, Primarina and Memetal I've already talked about so I'm not gonna add anything here, except that gengar has a 65% winrate LOL.
Golisopod - the second best defensive pivot in the meta, after Corviknight. Possibly even better (as a slow pivot), as it has close to the slowest U-Turn in the meta while surviving even SE physical hits like MGLO Gyara Brave Bird. Provides hazard support while slow uturning out of/scald burning/knocking bouncers. The bouncers that rely on teleport dont really wanna eat a knock/uturn, esp if they predict incorrectly and get uturnd on the switch.

Gyarados - Water/Flying is insane coverage so this thing can easily run away with games after even 1 DD. It struggles to break unaware Null/Mandi/Corvi unfortunately, so it needs to rely on team support to do that. But other than that, not much walls this thing, especially with the absence of Triage Ferrothorn. Also, low usage but 70% winrate is still insane.

Kommo-O - One of the 2 best rockers in the meta as it gets up rocks on Null/Lax, forces out non unaware foggers with ID + Press and can easily win games after special based checks are removed from the picture, since not even play rough is killing it at +2 defense. Not to mention it can also run offensive sets like DrumBurden, DrumTriage and special Clangorous soul sets.

Rotom-Heat - Desoland Rotom is a great wallbreaker and pivot. It comes in for free on Corviknight and most fairies, so it's a great partner for Kommo-O. With Nasty Plot+Sap it can break through quakeless snorlax, altho roost is better if you wanna check Primarina reliably. Beating Unaware Null isnt that hard either, as long as you keep rocks up and keep chipping it with Rocks+Volt - eventually it will be brought into range of 2 blue flares. The only hard counters to this are FF Ground types, but Tyranitar is also pretty close. It can obviously also run other sets - offensive prankbond (get a kill then dbond the rkiller), defensive prankbond and magnet pull (worry seed lets you break FF steels). Overall a very versatile and easy to include mon.

S
Dragapult (Adaptabiity, Dazzing, Regenerator, Poison Heal, Tinted Lens, Sheer Force, Technician)
Type: Null (Unaware, Regenerator, Magic Bounce, Stamina)
Cobalion (Regenerator, Magic Guard, Scrappy)

A+
Corviknight (Magic Bounce, Unaware, Regenerator, Intimidate, Thick Fat, Delta Stream, Stamina, Flash Fire, Volt Absorb, Water Absorb)
Snorlax (Poison Heal, Unaware, Prankster, Scrappy)
Gengar (Sheer Force, No Guard, Adaptability, Merciless, Regenerator)
Golisopod (Regenerator, Poison Heal, Triage, Tinted Lens)
Melmetal (Tinted Lens, Steelworker, Regenerator, Flash Fire)
Primarina (Poison Heal, Regenerator, Sheer Force, Tinted Lens, Primordial Sea, Adaptability)
Rotom-Heat (Desolate Land, Prankster, Magnet Pull. Storm Drain)

A
Escavalier (Regenerator, Tinted Lens, Steelworker, Flash Fire)
Gyarados (Magic Guard, Motor Drive)
Hippowdon (Intimidate, Stamina, Unaware, Magic Bounce)
Hydreigon (Poison Heal, Sheer Force, Mega Launcher, Unburden, Dazzling)
Inteleon (Tinted Lens, Primordial Sea, Swift Swim)
Jirachi (Regenerator, Magic Guard, Prankster, Tinted Lens, Dry Skin)
Mandibuzz (Stamina, Magic Bounce, Unaware, Delta Stream, Volt Absorb)
Noivern (Aerilate)
Salazzle (Desolate Land, Sheer Force)
Sylveon (Pixilate, Unaware, Poison Heal, Triage, Soundproof, Prankster)
Togekiss (Triage, Magic Bounce, Sheer Force, Tinted Lens)
Toxapex (Prankster, Corrosion, Volt Absorb, Levitate)

A-
Kommo-o (Poison Heal, Regenerator, Unburden, Triage)
Celebi (Poison Heal, Triage, Tinted Lens)
Decidueye (Triage)
Ferrothorn (Flash Fire, Triage, Pranskter, Regenerator, Magic Bounce)
Gallade (Triage, Adaptability, Tough Claws)
Lucario (Magic Guard, Tough Claws, Scrappy, Tinted Lens, -ate abilities)
Mew (Unaware, Magic Bounce, Regenerator, Poison Heal, Surge abilities, Weather abilities)
Tyranitar (Regenerator, Bulletproof, Magic Guard)

B+
Bisharp (Adaptability, Buletproof, Regenerator, Tinted Lens, Dry Skin, Water Absorb, Magic Bounce)
Hawlucha (Magic Guard)
Blastoise (Poison Heal)
Darmanitan (Desolate Land, Turboblaze, Tinted Lens, Unburden)
Doublade (Regenerator, Unaware, Flash Fire, Levitate)
Dracovish (Poison Heal, Swift Swim, Tinted Lens)
Durant (Tinted Lens, Tough Claws)
Excadrill (Steelworker, Tinted Lens, Flash Fire)
Mamoswine (Adaptability, Tinted Lens)
Obstagoon (Poison Heal, Guts, Harvest)
Rotom-Wash (Regenerator, Sheer Force)
Sirfetchd (Triage, Sniper, Tough Claws)
Weavile (Dazzling, Adaptability, Tinted Lens)

B
Aegislash (Stance Change)
Arcanine (Desolate Land, Turboblaze, Tinted Lens, -ate abilities)
Braviary (Magic Guard)
Cursola (Prankster, Sheer Force)
Dhelmise (Triage)
Gardevoir (Tinted Lens, Sheer Force)
Glaceon (Refrigerate)
Grimmsnarl (Regenerator, Poison Heal, Dazzling, Pixilate, Adaptability)
Oranguru (Magic Bounce, Prankster, Psychic Surge, Harvest)
Pangoro (Triage, Tinted Lens, Guts)
Rhyperior (Magic Guard)
Umbreon (Unaware, Regenerator, Magic Bounce, Stamina, Poison Heal, Prankster)
Weezing-Galar (Regenerator, Prankster, Water Absorb, Sheer Force, Unaware)

B-
Avalugg (Scrappy, Dauntless Shield)
Bewear (Guts, Triage, Scrappy)
Cinderace (Desolate Land, Turboblaze, Tinted Lens, Magic Guard)
Coalossal (Poison Heal, Magic Bounce, Magnet Pull)
Dracozolt (Surge Surfer)
Goodra (Regenerator)
Jellicent (Unaware, Volt Absorb, Poison Heal)
Leafeon (Flash Fire, Poison Heal, Stamina)
Necrozma (Poison Heal, Unaware)
Rotom-Fan (No Guard, Sheer Force)
Rotom-Mow (No Guard, Sheer Force, Triage, Primordial Sea)
Runerigus (Poison Heal)
Seismitoad (Poison Heal, Regenerator)
Toxtricity (Regenerator, Refrigerate, Galvanize, Tough Claws, Electric Surge)

C
Conkeldurr (Magnet Pull, Magic Bounce)
Corsola-Galar (Prankster, Mold Breaker, Magic Bounce)
Drampa (Adaptability, Tinted Lens, Prankster)
Duraludon (Regenerator, Magic Guard)
Gastrodon (Unaware, Poison Heal, Sap Sipper)
Gourgeist (Unaware, Prankster)
Hatterene (Triage)
Heliolisk (Punk Rock, Primordial Sea, Adaptability, Tinted Lens)
Incineroar (Regenrator, Tough Claws, Desolate Land)
Orbeetle (Mold Breaker, Poison Heal, Magic Bounce)
Passimian (Regenerator, Magnet Pul, Tough Claws)
Rhydon (Regenerator)
Rillaboom (Poison Heal)
Shuckle (Mold Breaker, Regenerator)
Vikavolt (Punk Rock)
Virizion (Triage)

EDIT: Shoutouts to Roldski32 for compiling the STAAAB usage stats, it helped us find the right placement for some mons.

 

[Icemaster]

Here's a TS AAA team. Descriptions in the paste.

this thing is broken as we all know. It has been recently nerfed as the PU council quickbanned Silvally-Flying amongst other things but it's still a menace. Other formes such as electric, ground, normal have the capability to go apeshit too I think and we should take a look at Silvally as a whole - all of the formes are proving to be extremely potent. I'd like to see this quickbanned (at least flying and electric.)

MNMTS Tour Code

/tour create gen8mixandmega, elimination, 32, 1
/tour name [Gen 8] Mix and Mega Tier Shift
/tour rules Gen8tiershift, +Eternatus, -Eternatus + Abomasite, -Eternatus + Absolite, -Eternatus + Aerodactylite, -Eternatus + Aggronite, -Eternatus + Alakazite, -Eternatus + Altarianite, -Eternatus + Ampharosite, -Eternatus + Audinite, -Eternatus + Banettite, -Eternatus + Blastoisinite, -Eternatus + Cameruptite, -Eternatus + Charizardite X, -Eternatus + Charizardite Y, -Eternatus + Diancite, -Eternatus + Galladite, -Eternatus + Garchompite, -Eternatus + Gardevoirite, -Eternatus + Glalitite, -Eternatus + Gyaradosite, -Eternatus + Heracronite, -Eternatus + Houndoominite, -Eternatus + Latiasite, -Eternatus + Latiosite, -Eternatus + Lopunnite, -Eternatus + Lucarionite, -Eternatus + Manectite, -Eternatus + Metagrossite, -Eternatus + Mewtwonite X, -Eternatus + Mewtwonite Y, -Eternatus + Pinsirite, -Eternatus + Sablenite, -Eternatus + Salamencite, -Eternatus + Sceptilite, -Eternatus + Scizorite, -Eternatus + Sharpedonite, -Eternatus + Slowbronite, -Eternatus + Steelixite, -Eternatus + Swampertite, -Eternatus + Tyranitarite, -Eternatus + Venusaurite, +Zacian, -Zacian + Abomasite, -Zacian + Absolite, -Zacian + Aerodactylite, -Zacian + Aggronite, -Zacian + Alakazite, -Zacian + Altarianite, -Zacian + Ampharosite, -Zacian + Audinite, -Zacian + Banettite, -Zacian + Blastoisinite, -Zacian + Cameruptite, -Zacian + Charizardite X, -Zacian + Charizardite Y, -Zacian + Diancite, -Zacian + Galladite, -Zacian + Garchompite, -Zacian + Gardevoirite, -Zacian + Glalitite, -Zacian + Gyaradosite, -Zacian + Heracronite, -Zacian + Houndoominite, -Zacian + Latiasite, -Zacian + Latiosite, -Zacian + Lopunnite, -Zacian + Lucarionite, -Zacian + Manectite, -Zacian + Metagrossite, -Zacian + Mewtwonite X, -Zacian + Mewtwonite Y, -Zacian + Pinsirite, -Zacian + Sablenite, -Zacian + Salamencite, -Zacian + Sceptilite, -Zacian + Scizorite, -Zacian + Sharpedonite, -Zacian + Slowbronite, -Zacian + Steelixite, -Zacian + Swampertite, -Zacian + Tyranitarite, -Zacian + Venusaurite, +Zacian + Rusted Sword, +Zacian-Crowned, -Arctovish, -Arctozolt, +Damp Rock, +Heat Rock

 

[InvalidOS]

Here's a TS AAA team. Descriptions in the paste.

this thing is broken as we all know. It has been recently nerfed as the PU council quickbanned Silvally-Flying amongst other things but it's still a menace. Other formes such as electric, ground, normal have the capability to go apeshit too I think and we should take a look at Silvally as a whole - all of the formes are proving to be extremely potent. I'd like to see this quickbanned (at least flying and electric.)

Silvally-Ground is probably the best not broken Silvally form, as an actually decent Defog pivot.

 

[HeatEdgeSword]

For this post, I will be sharing some updated Doubles mashups tour codes and then discussing some of them. STABmons Doubles tour code is up to date and also really long, so this post won't have it.

Camomons Doubles

/tour new Doubles, elimination
/tour rules [Gen 8] Camomons, !Sleep Clause Mod, +Darmanitan-Galar, +Hydreigon, +Zeraora, +Melmetal, +Kyurem
/tour autostart 10
/tour autodq 4
/tour name [Gen 8] Camomons Doubles

This one will unban Galarian Darmanitan, Hydreigon, Zeraora, and Melmetal as well as removing sleep clause to make it more in line with standard Doubles. Also, Shadow Tag is banned.

AAA Doubles

/tour new Doubles, elimination
/tour rules !Obtainable Abilities, -Anger Point, -Arena Trap, -Comatose, -Contrary, -Fluffy, -Fur Coat, -Gorilla Tactics, -Huge Power, -Ice Scales, -Illusion, -Imposter, -Innards Out, -Intrepid Sword, -Libero, -Moody, -Neutralizing Gas, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Pure Power, -Rattled, -Serene Grace, -Shadow Tag, -Simple, -Soul-Heart, -Stakeout, -Stamina, -Speed Boost, -Wandering Spirit, -Water Bubble, -Water Compaction, -Wonder Guard, -Shedinja, 2 Ability Clause
/tour autostart 10
/tour autodq 4
/tour name [Gen 8] Almost Any Ability Doubles

This will ban any potential cheese strategy such as Rattled due to the revamped speed mechanic now occurring in mid-turn when the changes were made and Stamina due to Body Press. I wouldn't have banned these back in Gen 7. Justified was unbanned as Beat Up is banned in Doubles OU, which is the only way to trigger its attack boosts multiple times in a turn. One flaw with this tour code is that it doesn't allow something like Diggersby to have Huge Power when it is the native user of this ability. Still, Wandering Spirit is banned as a safety measure for preventing any potential loophole abuse.

BH Doubles

/tour new [Gen 8] Doubles Ubers, elimination
/tour rules !Obtainable Abilities, !Obtainable Moves, !Obtainable Misc, Forme Clause, !Species Clause, -Shedinja, -Comatose + Sleep Talk, -Double Iron Bash, -Octolock, -Arena Trap, -Contrary, -Gorilla Tactics, -Huge Power, -Illusion, -Innards Out, -Libero, -Magnet Pull, -Moody, -Neutralizing Gas, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Stakeout, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, -Justified, -Anger Point, -Steam Engine, -Stamina, -Rattled, -Wandering Spirit, -Soul-Heart
/tour autostart 10
/tour autodq 4
/tour name [Gen 8] Balanced Hackmons Doubles

This tour code also bans any potential cheese strategy that I can find. Justified is banned because Doubles Uber doesn't have Beat Up banned. Psychic Surge is unbanned because I don't think it will anything groundbreaking, but feel free to ban it if you disagree.

Moving on to the discussion. I don't have that much experience with AAA Doubles, so I can't comment on it. Won't be discussing STABmons Doubles either as I don't have that anything new to discuss and things are looking good so far aside from Eviolite Type: Null.

Camomons Doubles:
I'm mixed with it. On the one hand, it benefits from being able to change types from Camomons, with Fire/Ground and Fire/Fighting being the best since those gain immunity to burns. However, Galarian Darmanitan still feels clunky to use, having to switch out every time it hits once or twice, and it's still as frail as ever, meaning that if a foe gets a chance, they can and will KO the poor gorilla. I don't know if I should ban it or it will end up with the Deoxys-A situation, a glass cannon that seems horrifying enough to warrant a suspect test that it avoids a ban due to its fragility and falling down as metagame progresses with Incineroar being the best check for Deoxys-A. The best way I can think of to get rid of Galarian Darmanitan is to use Rain team.

They're alright, nothing screams broken about them. Zeraora acts best as a utility attacker with Fake Out and Knock Off. You could use it as an all-out attacker, but I won't recommend it due to several problems it will be facing, mainly getting attack drop from Intimidate and Burn. Nasty Plot Hydreigon seems to work better in Camomon Doubles than in standard Doubles, but due to sweepers tend to functions worse in Doubles compared to Singles, Hydreigon is not going to be too much of a problem anytime soon against a competent team. For the record, I had more success with Water/Grass Gyarados than Hydreigon despite carrying a STAB Heat Wave.

Not sure about Melmetal at all right now. I mean it's Melmetal, it's bound to be good. If you ever faced one, leave your thoughts of it.

No longer being restricted to just Grass/Fairy sure feels good. The only issue is most Whimsicott are stuck being Fairy-type as its most powerful attack is Moonblast.

BH Doubles:
While I didn't play it at all so far, I have seen some battles of it.

I suggest banning Decorate and Weakness Policy. I don't need to describe Decorate as it was just as dumb as it was in STABmons Doubles before the ban, but now everything could have Prankster. Meanwhile, Weakness Policy is at worst in conjunction with Dynamax, making taking most of the super-effective hits less risky. Not sure if Spectral Thief is enough to stop them though.

Fishious Rend and Bolt Beak are less powerful in BH Doubles due to the prevalence of Follow Me. And boy, Follow Me is everywhere.

I think I forgot something, so I might edit this post sooner or later.

 

[Rose]

National Dex Staaab is something that has popped to everyone’s minds by now, and has recently been played quite a bit on PS!

I’m just bringing to life this metagame in this thread by posting my thoughts and some sets of threats returning from last gen.

Previous Gen Bans:
Archeops, Blacephalon, Dragonite, Hoopa-Unbound, Kartana, Keldeo, Komala, Kyurem-Black, Regigigas, Shedinja, Silvally, Slaking, Tapu Koko, Terrakion, Thundurus

A new gen, another ban reset. Obviously threats that are banned this gen already should stay banished from the tier - Keldeo, Kyurem-Black, Silvally, Shedinja and Terrakion.

There are obviously a few quickban targets that we have been playing without that should be instantly banished:


Staying true to last gen’s rulseset these pokemon will be unbanned, for now...
Genesect, Landorus, Naganadel, Aerodactyl

Watchlist: Thousand Arrows, Thundurus-Therian, Hoopa-Unbound, Blacephalon, Tapu Koko, Heatran

Some other thoughts and sets!

Triage Togekiss!

Togekiss @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Moonblast / Draining Kiss
- Oblivion Wing
- Flamethrower / Aura Sphere

With the re-addition of Onlivion Wing, the absolute menace returns. Checks and counters: Chansey, Heatran, Flash Fire Steels, Dazzling Pokemon

Magic Guard Heatran! (Courtesy of SydneyFunnelWeb)

Heatran @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe or 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest / Mild Nature
- Steel Beam
- Mind Blown
- Earth Power
- Magma Storm / Stealth Rock / Taunt

With the new move Steel Beam, Heatran has access to two powerful STAB moves with no downsides, and Ground-type coverage to hit Fire-types. Checks and counters: Flash Fire Celesteela/ Corviknight, Chansey (drops to V-create), Mantine, Suicune
Yes this set is busted.
Edit: V-create is banned never mind.

Hoopa-Unbound the unwallable breaker

Hoopa-Unbound @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Hyperspace Fury
- Photon Geyser
- Fire Punch
- Drain Punch

Set name is self explanatory.
Checks and counters: Grimmsnarl? Please quickban?

I’m basically just Gengar

Blacephalon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Moongeist Beam
- Hidden Power Ground
- Trick

Powerful wallbreaker that is able to cripple its would-be checks by tricking them Choice Specs.
Checks and counters: Assault Vest Tyranitar, Flash Fire Normal / Dark-types.
Don’t even get me started on the Desolate Land Eruption set.

Sflo Koko

Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bolt Strike
- Play Rough
- U-turn
- Filler

Think Zeraora but stronger and without Close Combat.
Checks and counters: Rotom Heat, Ferrothorn, Venusaur.

Z Lando-T

Landorus-Therian @ Flynium Z
Ability: Adaptability
- Stealth Rock
- Swords Dance
- Thousand Arrows
- Dragon Ascent

These two moves have neutral coverage for everything, and the z move allows it to OHKO walls such as Mega Slowbro.
Checks and counters: Thousand Arrows is busted

Dazzlescarf: the series


Dragapult / Kartana / Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sunsteel Strike / Dragon Darts
- Spectral Thief / Power Whip / Thousand Arrows
- Shadow Sneak / Knock Off / Stone Edge
- U-turn / Sacred Sword / Precipice Blades


That’s all for now!

 

[The Number Man]

National Dex Staaab is something that has popped to everyone’s minds by now, and has recently been played quite a bit on PS!

I’m just bringing to life this metagame in this thread by posting my thoughts and some sets of threats returning from last gen.

Previous Gen Bans:
Archeops, Blacephalon, Dragonite, Hoopa-Unbound, Kartana, Keldeo, Komala, Kyurem-Black, Regigigas, Shedinja, Silvally, Slaking, Tapu Koko, Terrakion, Thundurus

A new gen, another ban reset. Obviously threats that are banned this gen already should stay banished from the tier - Keldeo, Kyurem-Black, Silvally, Shedinja and Terrakion.

There are obviously a few quickban targets to instantly banish:


Staying true to last gen’s rulseset these pokemon will be unbanned, for now...
Genesect, Landorus, Naganadel, Aerodactyl

Watchlist: Thousand Arrows, Thundurus-Therian, Hoopa-Unbound, Blacephalon, Tapu Koko, Heatran

Thanks for posting this and working on the code (which unfort is too long for showdown)!

I'm gonna share my thoughts on the banlist. Obviously last gens bans should be carried forward. Most of the things that were banned this gen should go too, although i could see chandelure (mega tyranitar with pursuit+shore up) and zeraora (shore up means ground types can afford to run sap sipper, tapu bulu tanks it pretty easily) making a comeback. I'm not sure about blace and koko, but hoopa and thundy-T/I should definitely be banned. Thundy was the premier triage abuser and nothing has really changed to make it easier to handle, if anything triage is even more powerful since psychic surge was nerfed. Hoopa on the other hand is pretty much unwallable with Hustle Band Hyperspace and again, no new fat fairies have been introduced that make walling it easier.
Heatran is fine, it was practically unused last gen and while it got a new toy in steelbeam for the MG set i don't think its overbearing. Thousand Arrows needs to be banned ASAP (i honestly don't know why its even being considered as healthy seeing as arrows has been banned in STABmons and derivative metas for a while now), Garchomp has no business running Clang/DD + shore up + arrows + filler guts sets and sweeping after one or two boosts.

https://pastebin.com/ymQc9Z21 this link contains the Natdex STAAABmons code that includes the past gens stabmons move legality cause (ie, ttar can use shore up) when set on http://trashchannel.psim.us/, courtesy of Nido/Cringemeta.

EDIT: updated the pastebin link since previous one had vish banned

 

[drampa's grandpa]

National Dex Staaab is something that has popped to everyone’s minds by now, and has recently been played quite a bit on PS!

I’m just bringing to life this metagame in this thread by posting my thoughts and some sets of threats returning from last gen.

Previous Gen Bans:
Archeops, Blacephalon, Dragonite, Hoopa-Unbound, Kartana, Keldeo, Komala, Kyurem-Black, Regigigas, Shedinja, Silvally, Slaking, Tapu Koko, Terrakion, Thundurus

A new gen, another ban reset. Obviously threats that are banned this gen already should stay banished from the tier - Keldeo, Kyurem-Black, Silvally, Shedinja and Terrakion.

There are obviously a few quickban targets to instantly banish:


Staying true to last gen’s rulseset these pokemon will be unbanned, for now...
Genesect, Landorus, Naganadel, Aerodactyl

Watchlist: Thousand Arrows, Thundurus-Therian, Hoopa-Unbound, Blacephalon, Tapu Koko, Heatran

Some other thoughts and sets!

Triage Togekiss!

Togekiss @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
-Nasty Plot
-Moonblast / Draining Kiss
-Oblivion Wing
-Flamethrower / Aura Sphere

With the re-addition of Onlivion Wing, the absolute menace returns. Checks and counters: Chansey, Heatran, Flash Fire Steels, Dazzling Pokemon

Magic Guard Heatran! (Courtesy of SydneyFunnelWeb)

Heatran @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe or 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest / Mild Nature
-Steel Beam
-Mind Blown
-Earth Power
-V-create / Stealth Rock / Taunt

With the new move Steel Beam, Heatran has access to two powerful STAB moves with no downsides, and Ground-type coverage to hit Fire-types. Checks and counters: Flash Fire Celesteela/ Corviknight, Chansey (drops to V-create), Mantine, Suicune
Yes this set is busted.

Hoopa-Unbound the unwallable breaker

Hoopa-Unbound @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Hyperspace Fury
-Photon Geyser
-Fire Punch
-Drain Punch

Set name is self explanatory.
Checks and counters: Grimmsnarl? Wait why isn’t this quickbanned?

I’m basically just Gengar

Blacephalon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
-Fire Blast
-Moongeist Beam
-Hidden Power Ground
-Trick

Powerful wallbreaker that is able to cripple its would-be checks by tricking them Choice Specs.
Checks and counters: Assault Vest Tyranitar, Flash Fire Normal / Dark-types.

Sflo Koko

Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Bolt Strike
-Play Rough
-U-turn
-Filler

Think Zeraora but stronger and without Close Combat.
Checks and counters: Rotom Heat, Ferrothorn, Venusaur.

Z Lando-T

Landorus-Therian @ Flynium Z
Ability: Adaptability
-Stealth Rock
-Swords Dance
-Thousand Arrows
-Dragon Ascent

These two moves have neutral coverage for everything, and the z move allows it to OHKO walls such as Mega Slowbro.
Checks and counters: Thousand Arrows is busted

That’s all for now!

Looks like this is gonna be a new (unofficial) popular mashup!

Banlist:
Pokemon: Arceus, Archeops, Blastoise-Mega, Darkrai, Deoxys-Attack, Deoxys-Base, Deoxys-Speed, Dialga, Dragonite, Eternatus, Gengar-Mega, Giratina, Groudon, Ho-Oh, Hoopa-Unbound, Kangaskhan-Mega, Kartana, Keldeo, Kyogre, Kyurem-Black, Kyurem-White, Lucario-Mega, Lugia, Lunala, Marshadow, Mewtwo, Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, Palkia, Pheromosa, Rayquaza, Regigigas, Reshiram, Salamence-Mega, Shaymin-Sky, Shedinja, Silvally, Slaking, Solgaleo, Terrakion, Thundurus-Therian, Xerneas, Yveltal, Zacian, Zamazenta, Zekrom, Zygarde-Base

Moves: Acupressure, Belly Drum, Bolt Beak, Double Iron Bash, Electrify, Extreme Speed, Fishious Rend, Geomancy, Shell Smash, Shift Gear, Spore, Thousand Arrows

Abilities: Arena Trap, Comatose, Contrary, Fluffy, Fur Coat, Gorilla Tactics, Huge Power, Ice Scales, Illusion, Imposter, Innards Out, Intrepid Sword, Libero, Moody, Neutralizing Gas, Parental Bond, Protean, Pure Power, Shadow Tag, Simple, Stakeout, Speed Boost, Water Bubble, Wonder Guard

Explanations

Most move bans are ported over directly from STABmons. None of them are particularly up for dispute. If you want to try arguing for Extreme Speed go ahead, but all the others are dumb. Ability bans are directly from AAA, as all abilities are usable there.

-Geomancy is banned because it gives every Fairy type a quick and easy set up move to extreme power at the cost of an item slot.
-Thousand Arrows is banned because it is simply too spammable on various strong Ground types. Pokemon such as Excadrill and Garchomp can easily either set up or abuse Choice items and almost everything will be hit at least neutrally, leaving HP Ice Tangrowth and Ice Punch Buzzwole as your answers to these mons.

-Landorus-Base was removed from the banlist as without Sheer Force being special it loses quite a bit of its potency. I don't feel that it will be metashaking as it hasn't proven so for several generations and nothing much has changed.
-Blastoise-Mega remains banned because Origin Pulse + Shell Smash is broken af.[
-Thundurus-Therian with Nasty Plot + Oblivion Wing is broken. Mostly with Triage, but that's not the ONLY set. The other one is also likely broken, but that goes on the watchlist because it's a little less so lol.
-Hoopa-U breaks everything. Barring... I'm not actually sure. Shedinja lol (woops Photon'd). Between Hustle, Adapt, Mega Launcher, and Tinted Lens, it has literally 0 switchins thanks to Gunk Shot hitting Fairies and Fighting coverage.
-Dragonite gets Aerilate Extreme Speed. Nothing more to be said.

Watchlist:
Naganadel - This was unbanned here, as it was last generation. It has gained a new tool in Clangorous Soul, but whether it will effectively use it time will tell.
Genesect - Also unbanned last generation. Steel Beam may prove usable on it, but I doubt it will have any lasting impact on its overall brokeness. We will watch it either way.
Tapu Koko - Bolt Strike is an absurdly good STAB for it. This thing is tough but not impossible to wall, and has an excellent Speed tier to boot. Eyes are being kept on top of it or something like that.
Zeraora - Zeraora, while too much in regular STAAAB, receives some more couterplay here, with Pokemon like Tangrowth making a reappearance.
Chandelure - Chansey is back baby! Also stuff like Tapu Fini, Nihilego, Sand Stream Rhydon, and some others. May be broken. Or not.
Thundurus-Incarnate - While it's (big? little?) sibling got the quickboot, Incarnate forme is on the watchlist. This will likely be our new best Triage abuser, and is also a pretty neat mixed attacker and wallbreaker. It is extremely potent, so use it.

Let me know if I missed anything obvious or if you disagree with any of these starting bans!
If the STAAAB council is interested they can tier this metagame as well, I just thought I'd give us an official starting place all written down in one place.

EDIT: I forgot Kartana lmao that is SUPER banned

 

[Rose]

Hi everyone! Short post, just wanted to share a shortened version of the Natdex StAAAbmons code for PS! It re-adds only the relevant snapped moves for the viable Pokemon (I might have missed some, if so please let me know). https://pastebin.com/UynNY51K

Banlist but with sprites because why not

 

[Roldski32]

So its 2nd week for spotlight, and there's little post about it in here despite having decent plays in the room. So, i'm posting one set.

Stats: 45 HP / 125 Atk / 110 Def / 80 SpA / 80 SpD / 100 Spe
Pawniard @ Eviolite
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance

Announcement

Rufflet is now banned from Little Cup, and this will affect LC-based Mashups. This is a very late announcement, as I had to post the STAAABmons Usage Stat first during the time the ban was announced. I've already updated the setpedias a few days after the ban.

In other news... I am currently planning on making a Role Compedium for LC AAA, and i'm going to post this when i finished it.

 

[Nakeeb]

smh we need more variety on this megathread, all it is is just staaab, dw imma put an end to this

 

[The Number Man]

STAAAB Announcement (You ain't derailing the conversation away from STAAAB on my watch Nakeeb!!!)

Both Tmi489 and RICEMAN have joined the STAAAB council. The current council is:
- icemaster
- manu
- best gal
- tmi
- riceman
- me

With the official formation of the council comes our first tiering decision. Kyurem is banned (with a unanimous vote) from STABmons + Almost Any Ability!

I have talked about this mon already, but I'll summarise again quickly. SFLO Kyurem has amazing coverage meaning that practically nothing can switch into it while being deceptively hard to kill itself. The only mon that can safely switch in and never get 2hkod is AV Escavalier, but the issue with that is that Esca doesnt really check any other common special attackers except Gengar, meaning that it's a dead slot a lot of the time. Kyurem 2hkos the normals with Focus Blast and can run Icicle Crash for Sylveon/Snorlax or Flash Cannon/Iron Head for Sylveon specifically. There's also Clangorous Soul sets that can be backbreaking if unexpected (If kyurem clicks Soul on a protect from Lax it's pretty much over). It's not the best vs offensive teams, but its Uber statline gives it more than enough bulk to live a neutral hit from pretty much any non Specs/Band + Adapt boosted attack - for example, SFLO Gengar falls just short of ohkoing with Sludge Wave. What this means is that Kyurem will find a way to take at least one kill every game, while having the ability to singlehandedly dismantle most fatter teams in the metagame.

https://pastebin.com/qYAiu5ya tour code that reflects the ban, tagging drampa's grandpa to update the post with codes.

We will be suspect testing Tinted Lens in the near future, exact details will be announced once the suspect starts.

 

[Snafutari]

So Lunala was recently banned in Base Mix 'n' Mega. However, considering that it is much more manageable in STAB 'n' Mega and wasn't really showing signs of being broken, the council has decided that we will simply be pretending that this ban never happened.

The New Code

/tour new Gen 8 Mix and Mega, elimination
/tour rules STABmons Move Legality, -Ditto, -Bewear + Belly Drum, -Braviary + Belly Drum, -Bunnelby + Belly Drum, -Cinccino + Belly Drum, -Diggersby + Belly Drum, -Ditto + Belly -Drum, -Drampa + Belly Drum, -Dubwool + Belly Drum, -Eevee + Belly Drum, -Heliolisk + Belly Drum, -Helioptile + Belly Drum, -Hoothoot + Belly Drum, -Indeedee + Belly Drum, -Linoone-Galar + Belly Drum, -Meowth + Belly Drum, -Minccino + Belly Drum, -Noctowl + Belly Drum, -Obstagoon + Belly Drum, -Oranguru + Belly Drum, -Persian + Belly Drum, -Pidove + Belly Drum, -Rufflet + Belly Drum, -Silvally + Belly Drum, -Stufful + Belly Drum, -Tranquill + Belly Drum, -Type: Null + Belly Drum, -Unfezant + Belly Drum, -Wooloo + Belly Drum, -Zigzagoon-Galar + Belly Drum, -Vaporeon + Belly Drum, -Jolteon + Belly Drum, -Flareon + Belly Drum, -Espeon + Belly Drum, -Umbreon + Belly Drum, -Leafeon + Belly Drum, -Glaceon + Belly Drum, -Sylveon + Belly Drum, -Bewear + Acupressure, -Braviary + Acupressure, -Bunnelby + Acupressure, -Cinccino + Acupressure, -Diggersby + Acupressure, -Ditto + Acupressure, -Drampa + Acupressure, -Dubwool + Acupressure, -Eevee + Acupressure, -Greedent + Acupressure, -Heliolisk + Acupressure, -Helioptile + Acupressure, -Hoothoot + Acupressure, -Indeedee + Acupressure, -Linoone-Galar + Acupressure, -Meowth + Acupressure, -Minccino + Acupressure, -Munchlax + Acupressure, -Noctowl + Acupressure, -Obstagoon + Acupressure, -Oranguru + Acupressure, -Persian + Acupressure, -Pidove + Acupressure, -Rufflet + Acupressure, -Silvally + Acupressure, -Skwovet + Acupressure, -Snorlax + Acupressure, -Stufful + Acupressure, -Tranquill + Acupressure, -Type: Null + Acupressure, -Unfezant + Acupressure, -Wooloo + Acupressure, -Zigzagoon-Galar + Acupressure, -Vaporeon + Acupressure, -Jolteon + Acupressure, -Flareon + Acupressure, -Espeon + Acupressure, -Umbreon + Acupressure, -Leafeon + Acupressure, -Glaceon + Acupressure, -Sylveon + Acupressure, -Bewear + Shell Smash, -Braviary + Shell Smash, -Bunnelby + Shell Smash, -Cinccino + Shell Smash, -Diggersby + Shell Smash, -Ditto + Shell Smash, -Drampa + Shell Smash, -Dubwool + Shell Smash, -Eevee + Shell Smash, -Greedent + Shell Smash, -Heliolisk + Shell Smash, -Helioptile + Shell Smash, -Hoothoot + Shell Smash, -Indeedee + Shell Smash, -Linoone-Galar + Shell Smash, -Meowth + Shell Smash, -Minccino + Shell Smash, -Munchlax + Shell Smash, -Noctowl + Shell Smash, -Obstagoon + Shell Smash, -Oranguru + Shell Smash, -Persian + Shell Smash, -Pidove + Shell Smash, -Rufflet + Shell Smash, -Silvally + Shell Smash, -Skwovet + Shell Smash, -Snorlax + Shell Smash, -Stufful + Shell Smash, -Tranquill + Shell Smash, -Type: Null + Shell Smash, -Unfezant + Shell Smash, -Wooloo + Shell Smash, -Zigzagoon-Galar + Shell Smash, -Vaporeon + Shell Smash, -Jolteon + Shell Smash, -Flareon + Shell Smash, -Espeon + Shell Smash, -Umbreon + Shell Smash, -Leafeon + Shell Smash, -Glaceon + Shell Smash, -Sylveon + Shell Smash, -Araquanid + Fishious Rend, -Arrokuda + Fishious Rend, -Barbaracle + Fishious Rend, -Barboach + Fishious Rend, -Barraskewda + Fishious Rend, -Basculin + Fishious Rend, -Binacle + Fishious Rend, -Blastoise + Fishious Rend, -Brionne + Fishious Rend, -Chewtle + Fishious Rend, -Chinchou + Fishious Rend, -Cloyster + Fishious Rend, -Corphish + Fishious Rend, -Corsola + Fishious Rend, -Cramorant + Fishious Rend, -Crawdaunt + Fishious Rend, -Dewpider + Fishious Rend, -Drednaw + Fishious Rend, -Drizzile + Fishious Rend, -Feebas + Fishious Rend, -Frillish + Fishious Rend, -Gastrodon + Fishious Rend, -Goldeen + Fishious Rend, -Golisopod + Fishious Rend, -Gyarados + Fishious Rend, -Inteleon + Fishious Rend, -Jellicent + Fishious Rend, -Keldeo + Fishious Rend, -Kingler + Fishious Rend, -Krabby + Fishious Rend, -Lanturn + Fishious Rend, -Lapras + Fishious Rend, -Lombre + Fishious Rend, -Lotad + Fishious Rend, -Ludicolo + Fishious Rend, -Magikarp + Fishious Rend, -Mantine + Fishious Rend, -Mantyke + Fishious Rend, -Mareanie + Fishious Rend, -Milotic + Fishious Rend, -Octillery + Fishious Rend, -Palpitoad + Fishious Rend, -Pelipper + Fishious Rend, -Popplio + Fishious Rend, -Primarina + Fishious Rend, -Pyukumuku + Fishious Rend, -Quagsire + Fishious Rend, -Qwilfish + Fishious Rend, -Remoraid + Fishious Rend, -Rotom + Fishious Rend, -Seaking + Fishious Rend, -Seismitoad + Fishious Rend, -Shellder + Fishious Rend, -Shellos + Fishious Rend, -Silvally + Fishious Rend, -Sobble + Fishious Rend, -Squirtle + Fishious Rend, -Toxapex + Fishious Rend, -Tympole + Fishious Rend, -Vaporeon + Fishious Rend, -Wailmer + Fishious Rend, -Wailord + Fishious Rend, -Wartortle + Fishious Rend, -Whiscash + Fishious Rend, -Wimpod + Fishious Rend, -Wingull + Fishious Rend, -Wishiwashi + Fishious Rend, -Wooper + Fishious Rend, -Aegislash + Shift Gear, -Bisharp + Shift Gear, -Bronzong + Shift Gear, -Bronzor + Shift Gear, -Cobalion + Shift Gear, -Copperajah + Shift Gear, -Corviknight + Shift Gear, -Cufant + Shift Gear, -Doublade + Shift Gear, -Duraludon + Shift Gear, -Durant + Shift Gear, -Escavalier + Shift Gear, -Excadrill + Shift Gear, -Ferroseed + Shift Gear, -Ferrothorn + Shift Gear, -Honedge + Shift Gear, -Jirachi + Shift Gear, -Lucario + Shift Gear, -Mawile + Shift Gear, -Melmetal + Shift Gear, -Meltan + Shift Gear, -Meowth-Galar + Shift Gear, -Necrozma + Shift Gear, -Pawniard + Shift Gear, -Perrserker + Shift Gear, -Silvally + Shift Gear, -Solgaleo + Shift Gear, -Steelix + Shift Gear, -Stunfisk-Galar + Shift Gear, -Togedemaru + Shift Gear, -Zacian-Crowned + Shift Gear, -Zamazenta-Crowned + Shift Gear, -Abomasnow + Spore, -Appletun + Spore, -Applin + Spore, -Bellossom + Spore, -Bounsweet + Spore, -Budew + Spore, -Bulbasaur + Spore, -Celebi + Spore, -Cherrim + Spore, -Cherubi + Spore, -Cottonee + Spore, -Dartrix + Spore, -Decidueye + Spore, -Dhelmise + Spore, -Eldegoss + Spore, -Ferroseed + Spore, -Ferrothorn + Spore, -Flapple + Spore, -Gloom + Spore, -Gossifleur + Spore, -Gourgeist + Spore, -Grookey + Spore, -Ivysaur + Spore, -Leafeon + Spore, -Lombre + Spore, -Lotad + Spore, -Ludicolo + Spore, -Maractus + Spore, -Nuzleaf + Spore, -Oddish + Spore, -Phantump + Spore, -Pumpkaboo + Spore, -Rillaboom + Spore, -Roselia + Spore, -Roserade + Spore, -Rotom + Spore, -Rowlet + Spore, -Seedot + Spore, -Shiftry + Spore, -Silvally + Spore, -Snover + Spore, -Steenee + Spore, -Thwackey + Spore, -Trevenant + Spore, -Tsareena + Spore, -Venusaur + Spore, -Vileplume + Spore, -Virizion + Spore, -Whimsicott + Spore, -Bewear + Extreme Speed, -Braviary + Extreme Speed, -Bunnelby + Extreme Speed, -Cinccino + Extreme Speed, -Diggersby + Extreme Speed, -Ditto + Extreme Speed, -Drampa + Extreme Speed, -Dubwool + Extreme Speed, -Eevee + Extreme Speed, -Greedent + Extreme Speed, -Heliolisk + Extreme Speed, -Helioptile + Extreme Speed, -Hoothoot + Extreme Speed, -Indeedee + Extreme Speed, -Linoone-Galar + Extreme Speed, -Meowth + Extreme Speed, -Minccino + Extreme Speed, -Munchlax + Extreme Speed, -Noctowl + Extreme Speed, -Obstagoon + Extreme Speed, -Oranguru + Extreme Speed, -Persian + Extreme Speed, -Pidove + Extreme Speed, -Rufflet + Extreme Speed, -Silvally + Extreme Speed, -Skwovet + Extreme Speed, -Snorlax + Extreme Speed, -Stufful + Extreme Speed, -Tranquill + Extreme Speed, -Type: Null + Extreme Speed, -Unfezant + Extreme Speed, -Wooloo + Extreme Speed, -Zigzagoon-Galar + Extreme Speed, -Flareon + Extreme Speed, -Glaceon + Extreme Speed, -Jolteon + Extreme Speed, -Leafeon + Extreme Speed, -Vaporeon + Extreme Speed, -Umbreon + Extreme Speed, -Espeon + Extreme Speed, -Sylveon + Extreme Speed, -Aegislash + Double Iron Bash, -Bisharp + Double Iron Bash, -Bronzong + Double Iron Bash, -Bronzor + Double Iron Bash, -Cobalion + Double Iron Bash, -Copperajah + Double Iron Bash, -Corviknight + Double Iron Bash, -Cufant + Double Iron Bash, -Diglett-Alola + Double Iron Bash, -Doublade + Double Iron Bash, -Dugtrio-Alola + Double Iron Bash, -Duraludon + Double Iron Bash, -Durant + Double Iron Bash, -Escavalier + Double Iron Bash, -Excadrill + Double Iron Bash, -Ferroseed + Double Iron Bash, -Ferrothorn + Double Iron Bash, -Honedge + Double Iron Bash, -Jirachi + Double Iron Bash, -Klang + Double Iron Bash, -Klink + Double Iron Bash, -Klinklang + Double Iron Bash, -Lucario + Double Iron Bash, -Mawile + Double Iron Bash, -Meltan + Double Iron Bash, -Meowth-Galar + Double Iron Bash, -Necrozma + Double Iron Bash, -Pawniard + Double Iron Bash, -Perrserker + Double Iron Bash, -Silvally + Double Iron Bash, -Solgaleo + Double Iron Bash, -Steelix + Double Iron Bash, -Stunfisk-Galar + Double Iron Bash, -Togedemaru + Double Iron Bash, -Zacian + Double Iron Bash, -Zamazenta + Double Iron Bash, -Boltund + Bolt Beak, -Charjabug + Bolt Beak, -Chinchou + Bolt Beak, -Electrike + Bolt Beak, -Galvantula + Bolt Beak, -Heliolisk + Bolt Beak, -Helioptile + Bolt Beak, -Jolteon + Bolt Beak, -Joltik + Bolt Beak, -Lanturn + Bolt Beak, -Manectric + Bolt Beak, -Morpeko + Bolt Beak, -Pichu + Bolt Beak, -Pikachu + Bolt Beak, -Pincurchin + Bolt Beak, -Raichu + Bolt Beak, -Rotom + Bolt Beak, -Silvally + Bolt Beak, -Stunfisk + Bolt Beak, -Togedemaru + Bolt Beak, -Toxel + Bolt Beak, -Toxtricity + Bolt Beak, -Vikavolt + Bolt Beak, -Yamper + Bolt Beak, -Zekrom + Bolt Beak, -Zeraora + Bolt Beak, +Eternatus, -Eternatus + Abomasite, -Eternatus + Absolite, -Eternatus + Aerodactylite, -Eternatus + Aggronite, -Eternatus + Alakazite, -Eternatus + Altarianite, -Eternatus + Ampharosite, -Eternatus + Audinite, -Eternatus + Banettite, -Eternatus + Blastoisinite, -Eternatus + Cameruptite, -Eternatus + Charizardite X, -Eternatus + Charizardite Y, -Eternatus + Diancite, -Eternatus + Galladite, -Eternatus + Garchompite, -Eternatus + Gardevoirite, -Eternatus + Glalitite, -Eternatus + Gyaradosite, -Eternatus + Heracronite, -Eternatus + Houndoominite, -Eternatus + Latiasite, -Eternatus + Latiosite, -Eternatus + Lopunnite, -Eternatus + Lucarionite, -Eternatus + Manectite, -Eternatus + Metagrossite, -Eternatus + Mewtwonite X, -Eternatus + Mewtwonite Y, -Eternatus + Pinsirite, -Eternatus + Sablenite, -Eternatus + Salamencite, -Eternatus + Sceptilite, -Eternatus + Scizorite, -Eternatus + Sharpedonite, -Eternatus + Slowbronite, -Eternatus + Steelixite, -Eternatus + Swampertite, -Eternatus + Tyranitarite, -Eternatus + Venusaurite, +Lunala, -Lunala + Abomasite, -Lunala + Absolite, -Lunala + Aerodactylite, -Lunala + Aggronite, -Lunala + Alakazite, -Lunala + Altarianite, -Lunala + Ampharosite, -Lunala + Audinite, -Lunala + Banettite, -Lunala + Blastoisinite, -Lunala + Cameruptite, -Lunala + Charizardite X, -Lunala + Charizardite Y, -Lunala + Diancite, -Lunala + Galladite, -Lunala + Garchompite, -Lunala + Gardevoirite, -Lunala + Glalitite, -Lunala + Gyaradosite, -Lunala + Heracronite, -Lunala + Houndoominite, -Lunala + Latiasite, -Lunala + Latiosite, -Lunala + Lopunnite, -Lunala + Lucarionite, -Lunala + Manectite, -Lunala + Metagrossite, -Lunala + Mewtwonite X, -Lunala + Mewtwonite Y, -Lunala + Pinsirite, -Lunala + Sablenite, -Lunala + Salamencite, -Lunala + Sceptilite, -Lunala + Scizorite, -Lunala + Sharpedonite, -Lunala + Slowbronite, -Lunala + Steelixite, -Lunala + Swampertite, -Lunala + Tyranitarite, -Lunala + Venusaurite
/tour autostart 10
/tour autodq 4
/tour name [Gen 8] STABmons Mix and Mega

I know this is a much shorter post than my last one. There's just less I needed to say about with this unban.

 

[ElgyemSoul]

In light of recent staaab changes, I would be remiss to keep this hidden god of the metagame secret for so long, so I'll now reveal to the world of true greatness.

Behold - PHeal Whiscash

big fish (Whiscash) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Spikes
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam / Scald

Now I know what you're thinking- "But Reinfreude/Dasocks, Whiscash is garbage" and normally you'd be right. However, being considered terrible has a mental effect on the opponent- they will do whatever it takes not to lose to this, because nobody wants to lose to Whiscash.

Furthermore, this thing is actually a pretty good physdef tank. It takes little damage from those pesky desoland Cinderaces and Heatoms while being able to dish out more than enough to put them out of commission. But fire isn't the only thing big fish can handle-

252 Atk Adaptability Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Whiscash: 180-216 (42.5 - 51%) -- approx. 3HKO after Poison Heal

That's right. This big fella is Pult Check #147, and considering most pults run dazzling nowadays, you're free to ice beam or scald the problem mon away, or get up a free spike, the most influential hazard in the game.

If you're still not convinced, here is a prime showcase of big fish's capabilities (sorry binpin)

All in all, Whiscash is an ultra-viable anti-meta threat that everyone should acknowledge.

Okay but seriously, would it hurt to have a bit more variety in staaab teams? I've seen entire tours that have consisted of the same 8-12 mons and it's really sad

friendly reminder that melm and tinted are broken

 

[Icemaster]

I'm not the TS AAA leader but damn we all know that Silvally-Flying and Electric are hella broken like nothing else and lots of Silvally types can do the same things (just change the -ate and memory for SD sets or change the primary typing for special sets) and so I'm banning Silvally in all the tours I set. Also Eviolite isn't broken so it shouldn't be banned. We can retest weaker formes in the future.

Tour Code

/tour new gen8tiershift, elim, 32, 1
/tour rules !Obtainable Abilities, -Arena Trap, -Comatose, -Contrary, -Fluffy, -Fur Coat, -Gorilla Tactics, -Huge Power, -Ice Scales, -Illusion, -Imposter, -Innards Out, -Intrepid Sword, -Libero, -Moody, -Neutralizing Gas, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Simple, -Stakeout, -Speed Boost, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, -Shedinja, -Arctovish, 2 Ability Clause, -Silvally, -Light Ball
/tour autostart 10
/tour autodq 4
/tour name [Gen 8] Tier Shift AAA

drampa's grandpa implement as main tour code if you agree