OM Mashup Megathread

approved by The Immortal
glue on my hands

art by Bummer :)
Welcome to the OM Mashup Megathread! This thread plays host to a variety of metagames that combine two other metagames. There are three primary types of mash-ups on this thread. First, the standard mashups / variations of Other Metagames, which can be found here. Second,doubles versions of standard Other Metagames, which can be found here. Finally, Little Cup versions of Other Metagames, found here.

Join our Public Room to discuss OM mashups and participate in tours.
Join our Discord for similar discussion on OM mashups! Thanks to Ransei for hosting!
Check out Trashchannel, the showdown server dedicated to hosting mashups maintained by We Wuz Nidokangz

FAQs

Q: How does tiering work for OM Mashups?
A: The primary method of tiering begins with the banlist of the derivative metagames. However most mashups have additional bans.

If the councils of the derivative metas wish to take an active role in tiering that will be at their discretion. If not then any decisions regarding bans / unbans / suspects will be made by the mashups staff, or by whatever council is set up for a particular meta. If you wish to discuss tiering for the specific tiers feel free to do so in this thread!

Q: Will other mashups be added to the list?
A: It's possible. However, any changes to the list are subject to approval by the OM submissions team, so don't expect it to happen overnight. A solid concept and high levels of interest may increase the likelihood of a metagame being accepted as a mashup.

Q: So... what exactly should I do in this thread?
A: What you would do in any other meta's thread; post sets, talk about threats and how to check them, post teams, talk about general impressions, etc. However, here you should take care to quote the posts you are responding to and reference specifically which meta you are talking about to avoid confusion.

Q: What about Tier Shift OMs?
A: Until we have enough tiers for Tier Shift to be a functioning metagame these will have to be put on hold.
 
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OM Mashups

Pokemon can use anything that can be hacked in-game and is usable in local battles and will be the typing of their first two moves.

Clauses:
  • OHKO Clause: A Pokemon may not have the moves Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill, or Sheer Cold in its moveset.
  • Evasion Clause: A Pokemon may not have either Double Team or Minimize in its moveset.
  • Sleep Clause: If a player has already put a Pokemon on his/her opponent's side to sleep and it is still sleeping, another one can't be put to sleep.
Banlist:
Pokemon: Eternatus-Eternamax
Abilities: Arena Trap, Contrary, Gorilla Tactics, Huge Power, Illusion, Innards Out, Libero, Magnet Pull, Moody, Neutralizing Gas, Parental Bond, Protean, Pure Power, Shadow Tag, Stakeout, Water Bubble, Wonder Guard, Comatose + Sleep Talk
Pokemon can use almost any ability and any (non restricted) move of their typing.

Clauses:
  • Species Clause: A player cannot have two Pokemon with the same National Pokédex number on a team.
  • 2 Ability Clause: A player cannot have more than two Pokemon with the same Ability on a team.
  • OHKO Clause: A Pokemon may not have the moves Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill, or Sheer Cold in its moveset.
  • Evasion Clause: A Pokemon may not have either Double Team or Minimize in its moveset.
  • Sleep Clause: If a player has already put a Pokemon on his/her opponent's side to sleep and it is still sleeping, another one can't be put to sleep.
  • Endless Battle Clause: Players cannot intentionally prevent an opponent from being able to end the game without forfeiting.
  • Dynamax Clause: Players cannot use the mechanic known as Dynamaxing.
Banlist:
Pokemon: Ubers, Slaking, Regigigas, Pheromosa, Kartana, Blacephalon, Chandelure, Terrakion, Keldeo, Melmetal, Dragapult, Zeraora, Landorus-I, Calyrex-Shadow, Calyrex-Ice, Kyurem-Black, Tapu Koko, Dragonite, Archeops, Zygarde, Thundurus T, Thundurus I, Genesect, Shedinja, Silvally, Volcarona, Naganadel
Abilities: Arena Trap, Comatose, Contrary, Fluffy, Fur Coat, Gorilla Tactics, Huge Power, Ice Scales, Illusion, Imposter, Intrepid Sword, Innards Out, Libero, Moody, Neutralizing Gas, Parental Bond, Protean, Power Construct, Pure Power, Shadow Tag, Simple, Stakeout, Speed Boost, Water Bubble, Wonder Guard, Tinted Lens
Moves:
RESTRICTED: Acupressure, Belly Drum, Bolt Beak, Double Iron Bash, No Retreat, Fishious Rend, Shell Smash, Shift Gear, Spore, V-Create, Transform, Thousand Arrows, Geomancy, Lovely Kiss, Extreme Speed
BANNED: Baton Pass, Hypnosis, Sing, Grasswhistle, Sleep Powder, Wicked Blow, Electrify
Items: King's Rock, Razor Fang
UNBANS: (from STABmons): Dracovish, Porygon Z
UNRESTRICTED (from STABmons): Astral Barrage

Council:
:kommo-o:The Number Man (Tier Leader)
:Lanturn: manu 11
:Gengar: RICEMAN
:Snorlax: Tmi489
:jirachi: Axgwd
:claydol: Best Gal
Pokemon can use almost any ability and will be the typing of their first two moves.
Clauses:
  • Species Clause: A player cannot have two Pokemon with the same National Pokédex number on a team.
  • 2 Ability Clause: A player cannot have more than two Pokemon with the same Ability on a team.
  • OHKO Clause: A Pokemon may not have the moves Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill, or Sheer Cold in its moveset.
  • Evasion Clause: A Pokemon may not have either Double Team or Minimize in its moveset.
  • Sleep Clause: If a player has already put a Pokemon on his/her opponent's side to sleep and it is still sleeping, another one can't be put to sleep.
  • Endless Battle Clause: Players cannot intentionally prevent an opponent from being able to end the game without forfeiting.
  • Dynamax Clause: Players cannot use the mechanic known as Dynamaxing.

Banlist:
Pokemon: Eternatus, Kyurem-Black, Kyurem-White, Lunala, Marshadow, Mewtwo, Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, Reshiram, Shedinja, Solgaleo, Zacian, Zamazenta, Zekrom
Abilities: Arena Trap, Comatose, Contrary, Fluffy, Fur Coat, Gorilla Tactics, Huge Power, Ice Scales, Illusion, Imposter, Innards Out, Libero, Moody, Parental Bond, Protean, Pure Power, Shadow Tag, Simple, Stakeout, Speed Boost, Water Bubble, Wonder Guard

Council:
Best Gal
Don Vascus
Karl Dude Guy
Pokemon can use any move of their typing and mega evolve with any stone to gain the respective boosts.

Clauses:
  • Species Clause: A player cannot have two Pokemon with the same National Pokédex number on a team.
  • OHKO Clause: A Pokemon may not have the moves Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill, or Sheer Cold in its moveset.
  • Evasion Clause: A Pokemon may not have either Double Team or Minimize in its moveset.
  • Sleep Clause: If a player has already put a Pokemon on his/her opponent's side to sleep and it is still sleeping, another one can't be put to sleep.
  • Endless Battle Clause: Players cannot intentionally prevent an opponent from being able to end the game without forfeiting.
  • Dynamax Clause: Players cannot use the mechanic known as Dynamaxing.

Banlist:
Pokemon*: Gothitelle, Gothorita, Zacian, Ditto
Banned from holding stones: Mix and Mega bans + Chansey, Blissey, Magearna
Items: Beedrillite, Blazikenite, Gengarite, Kangaskhanite, Mawilite, Medichamite, Pidgeotite, King's Rock, Razor Fang
Moves:
BANNED: Electrify, Baton Pass
RESTRICTED: Acupressure, Belly Drum, Bolt Beak, Double Iron Bash, Extreme Speed, Fishious Rend, Shell Smash, Shift Gear, Spore, V-Create, Wicked Blow


*Differs from Mix and Mega banlist in that Eternatus and Lunala are unbanned!
Council:

:Rotom-Heat: NOC Unlucky 13 (Tier Leader)
:Terrakion: The Number Man



Pokemon can learn any move that matches their type, in an Ubers environment. All pokemon that are banned in STABmons are unbanned here.

Clauses: Ubers Clauses

Banlist:
Pokemon:
Items:
Moves:
Acupressure, Belly Drum, Chatter, Geomancy, Shell Smash, Shift Gear, Spore, Thousand Arrows, Extreme Speed
Pokemon can have almost any ability in an Ubers environment. All pokemon that are banned in Almost Any Ability are unbanned here.
Clauses: Ubers Clauses
2 Ability Clause

Banlist:
Pokemon: Shedinja
Abilities: Arena Trap, Comatose, Contrary, Fluffy, Fur Coat, Huge Power, Illusion, Imposter, Innards Out, Parental Bond, Protean, Pure Power, Shadow Tag, Simple, Speed Boost, Stakeout, Water Bubble, Wonder Guard, Intrepid Sword, Gorilla Tactics, Neutralizing Gas


Doubles OMs
Under construction!
Clauses:
Species Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Endless Battle Clause
Banlist:
Pokemon: Eternatus, Shedinja, Zacian, Zamazenta
Abilities: Anger Point, Arena Trap, Comatose, Contrary, Fluffy, Fur Coat, Gorilla Tactics, Huge Power, Illusion, Imposter, Innards Out, Intrepid Sword, Justified, Parental Bond, Protean, Pure Power, Shadow Tag, Simple, Soul Heart, Speed Boost, Stakeout, Water Bubble, Wonder Guard
Clauses:
OHKO Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Endless Battle Clause
Banlist:
Pokemon: Eternatus-Eternamax
Abilities: Arena Trap, Gorilla Tactics, Huge Power, Innards Out, Intrepid Sword, Magnet Pull, Moody, Parental Bond, Protean, Psychic Surge, Pure Power, Shadow Tag, Stakeout, Water Bubble, Wonder Guard, Comatose + Sleep Talk
Clauses:
Species Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Endless Battle Clause
Banlist:
Pokemon: Eternatus, Shedinja, Zacian, Zamazenta
Led by HeatEdgeSword
Clauses:
Species Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Endless Battle Clause
Banlist:
Pokemon: Eternatus, Shedinja, Silvally, Zacian, Zamazenta
Moves: Shell Smash, Shift Gear
Misc:


LC Mashups
Led by Roldski32
Clauses:
Species Clause, Nickname Clause, 2 Ability Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Dynamax Clause, Sleep Clause Mod, Endless Battle Clause
Banlist:
Pokemon: Corsola-Galar, Gastly, Sneasel
Abilities: Comatose, Contrary, Fluffy, Fur Coat, Gorilla Tactics, Huge Power, Ice Scales, Illusion, Imposter, Innards Out, Intrepid Sword, Libero, Moody, Neutralizing Gas, Parental Bond, Protean, Pure Power, Shadow Tag, Simple, Stakeout, Speed Boost, Water Bubble, Wonder Guard
Clauses:
OHKO Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Sleep Clause Mod, Endless Battle Clause
Banlist:
Pokemon: Nothing for now!
Abilities: Comatose + Sleep Talk, Arena Trap, Contrary, Gorilla Tactics, Huge Power, Illusion, Innards Out, Libero, Magnet Pull, Moody, Neutralizing Gas, Parental Bond, Protean, Pure Power, Shadow Tag, Stakeout, Water Bubble, Wonder Guard
Clauses:
Species Clause, Nickname Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Dynamax Clause, Sleep Clause Mod, Endless Battle Clause
Banlist:
Pokemon: Cherubi, Corsola-Galar, Gastly, Sneasel
Abilities: Moody
Clauses:
Species Clause, Nickname Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Dynamax Clause, Sleep Clause Mod, Endless Battle Clause
Banlist:
Pokemon: Corsola-Galar, Cherubi, Gastly, Sneasel
Moves: Acupressure, Belly Drum, Fishious Rend, Shell Smash, Shift Gear, Spore
Abilities: Moody
 
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Mashups Resources
Viability Rankings, Setpedias, Sample Teams, Speed Tiers, and more!
Camomons LC Setpedia
made by Roldski32
Arrokuda [ Water / Fighting ]
Corphish [ Water / Dark ]
Cufant [ Steel / Fighting ]
Cutiefly [ Fighting / Psychic ] [ Fighting / Grass ]
Darumaka-Galar [ Fire / Fighting ]
Dwebble [ Ground / Dark ]
Farfetch'd-Galar [ Fighting / Flying ]
Frillish [ Water / Fighting ] [ Water / Grass ] [ Grass / Poison ]
Mareanie [ Water / Poison ]
Galarian Form
Meowth-Galar [ Steel / Fighting ]
Mudbray [ Ground / Steel ]
Onix [ Rock / Ground ]
Galarian Form
Ponyta-Galar [ Psychic / Fighting ]
Rufflet [ Flying / Fighting ]
Salandit [ Dragon / Fire ]
Scraggy [ Fighting / Poison ]
Shellder [ Water / Rock ]
Shelmet [ Grass / Poison ]
Solosis [ Steel / Ghost ]
Trapinch [ Ground / Bug ] [ Ground / Grass ] [ Ground / Fighting ]
Vullaby [ Dark / Flying ] [ Steel / Flying ]
Vulpix [ Fire / Grass ]
Wynaut [ Ghost / Normal ]
Balanced Hackmons Little Cup Speed Tier
made by Roldski32
Legend: Pokemon / Nature / IVs / EVs / Boost
64 Speed:
:pawniard: Pawniard / Positive / 31 / 236 / +4

60 Speed
:pawniard: Pawniard / Neutral / 31 / 236 / +4

32 Speed:
:pawniard: Pawniard / Positive / 31 / 236 / +2

30 Speed:
:pawniard: Pawniard / Neutral / 31 / 236 / +2

24 Speed:
:pawniard: Pawniard / Positive / 31 / 236 / +1

22 Speed:
:munchlax: Munchlax / Positive / 31 / 236 / +2

20 Speed:
:diglett: Diglett / Positive / 31 / 236 / 0

19
:cutiefly: Cutiefly / Positive / 31 / 244 / 0
:diglett-alola: Diglett-Alola / Positive / 196 / 0
:Meowth-Alola: Meowth / Positive / 31 / 196 / 0
:ponyta: Ponyta / Positive / 31 / 196 / 0
:wingull: Wingull / Positive / 31 / 236 / 0

18
:dreepy: Dreepy / Positive / 31 / 180 / 0
:gastly: Gastly / Positive / 31 / 196 / 0
:salandit: Salandit / Positive / 31 / 220 / 0
:stunky: Stunky / Positive / 31 / 244 / 0

17
:chinchou: Chinchou / Positive / 31 / 220 / 0
:drifloon: Drifloon / Positive / 31 / 196 / 0
:drilbur: Drilbur / Positive / 31 / 212 / 0
:helioptile: Helioptile / Positive / 31 / 196 / 0
:natu: Natu / Positive / 31 / 196 / 0
:onix: Onix / Positive / 31 / 196 / 0

16
:chinchou: Chinchou / Neutral / 31 / 220 / 0
:farfetch Farfetch'd-Galar / Positive / 31 / 236 / 0
:pawniard: Pawniard / Positive / 31 / 236 / 0
:rufflet: Rufflet / Positive / 31 / 196 / 0
:wailmer: Wailmer / Positive / 31 / 236 / 0

15
:pawniard: Pawniard / Neutral / 31 / 236 / 0
:scraggy: Scraggy / Positive / 31 / 212 / 0
:swirlix: Swirlix / Positive / 31 / 204 / 0
:vullaby: Vullaby / Neutral / 31 / 196 / 0

14
:mareanie: Mareanie / Neutral / 31 / 236 / 0
:pumpkaboo-large: Pumpkaboo-Large / Neutral / 228 / 0
:scraggy: Scraggy / Neutral / 31 / 212 / 0
:swirlix: Swirlix / Neutral / 31 / 204 / 0

13
:cufant: Cufant / Neutral / 31 / 196 / 0
:frillish: Frillish / Neutral / 31 / 196 / 0
:koffing: Koffing / Neutral / 31 / 236 / 0
:pumpkaboo-super: Pumpkaboo-XL / Neutral / 31 / 188 / 0

12
:corsola-galar: Corsola-Galar / Neutral / 31 / 196 / 0
:honedge: Honedge / Neutral / 31 / 212 / 0
:ponyta: Ponyta / Positive / 31 / 196 / -1
:spritzee: Spritzee / Neutral / 31 / 252 / 0

10
:ferroseed: Ferroseed / Neutral / 31 / 196 / 0
:munchlax: Munchlax / Neutral / 31 / 236 / 0

8
:pumpkaboo-large: Pumpkaboo-Large / Negative / 0 / 0 / 0
:pumpkaboo-super: Pumpkaboo-XL / Negative / 0 / 0 / 0

7
:corsola-galar: Corsola-Galar / Negative / 0 / 0 / 0

6
:spritzee: Spritzee / Negative / 0 / 0 / 0
:honedge: Honedge / Negative / 0 / 0 / 0

5
:ferroseed: Ferroseed / Negative / 0 / 0 / 0

4
:munchlax: Munchlax / Negative / 0 / 0 / 0
S Rank
By Newest Oldest Most Competitive Competitor Snafutari


Magearna (Cameruptite, Manectite, Sablenite, Venusaurite)
Toxapex (Banettite, Latiasite, Sablenite)

S- Rank

Arcanine (Altarianite, Pinsirite)

A+ Rank

Dragapult (Absolite, Diancite, Lucarionite, Pinsirite)
Excadrill (Pinsirite, Scizorite)
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane (Leftovers, Life Orb, Weakness Policy)
Umbreon (Audinite, Sablenite)

A Rank

Corviknight (Sablenite, Venusaurite)
Lunala (Heavy-Duty Boots, Leftovers)
Mandibuzz (Sablenite)
Reshiram (Choice Scarf, Leftovers)
Rotom-Heat (Banettite, Charizardite Y, Latiasite)
Terrakion (Aerodactylite, Diancite, Lucarionite, Metagrossite)
Volcarona (Absolite, Cameruptite, Diancite, Lucarionite)
Zamazenta (Aerodactylite)

A- Ranks

Chandelure (Charizardite Y, Houndoominite, Lucarionite)
Chansey (Eviolite)
Cinderace (Lopunnite)
Darmanitan (Lopunnite)
Ferrothorn (Sablenite, Venusaurite)
Gourgeist-Super (Banettite)
Lucario (Altarianite, Lopunnite, Pinsirite)
Mew (Absolite, Diancite, Lopunnite, Manectite, Sablenite)
Rotom-Wash (Absolite, Banettite, Diancite, Latiasite)
Silvally (Absolite, Ampharosite, Gyaradosite)
Urshifu (Aerodactylite)
Vaporeon (Audinite, Pinsirite, Sablenite)

B+ Rank

Eternatus (Life Orb)
Glaceon (Glalitite)
Gyarados (Audinite, Lucarionite, Salamencite)
Hippowdon (Slowbronite, Venusaurite)
Rhyperior (Heracronite, Scizorite)
Runerigus (Banettite, Sablenite, Venusaurite)
Shedinja (Focus Sash, Heavy-Duty Boots, Safety Goggles)

B Rank

Darmanitan-Galar (Choice Band, Choice Scarf, Mewtwonite X)
Dracovish (Sharpedonite, Swampertite)
Dracozolt (Aerodactylite, Metagrossite, Pinsirite)
Jolteon (Charizardite Y, Lucarionite, Pinsirite)
Mantine (Audinite)
Rotom-Fan (Banettite, Cameruptite)
Shuckle (Ampharosite, Gyaradosite)
Sylveon (Sablenite, Venusaurite)

B- Rank

Hydreigon (Absolite, Blastoisinite, Cameruptite, Diancite)
Keldeo (Lucarionite)
Mamoswine (Heracronite, Scizorite)
Pelipper (Damp Rock)
Tyranitar (Aggronite, Gyaradosite, Sablenite)
Weezing-Galar (Ampharosite)
Zekrom (Choice Band, Choice Scarf, Leftovers)

C Rank

Braviary (Lopunnite)
Exeggutor-Alola (Sablenite)
Hatterene (Sablenite)
Orbeetle (Sablenite)
By Newest Oldest Most Competitive Competitor Snafutari
Note: All offensive Pokemon here can run Adaptability, so if a Pokemon is offensive, just assume it can run it. It'd just be kinda bland seeing it on basically half of all the Pokemon here if I listed it every time in my opinion.

S+ Rank

Mew (Intimidate, Magic Bounce, Magic Guard, No Guard, Prankster, Sheer Force, Tough Claws)

S- Rank

Jirachi (Flash Fire, Regenerator, Sheer Force, Tinted Lens)

A+ Rank

Alakazam (Psychic Surge, Sheer Force, Tinted Lens)
Avalugg (Dauntles Shield, Levitate, Unaware)
Dragapult (Poison Heal, Sheer Force, Technician)
Terrakion (Mold Breaker, Tinted Lens, Tough Claws)

A Rank

Chansey (Magic Bounce, Unaware, Sticky Hold)
Gengar (No Guard, Sheer Force)
Marowak-Alola (Magic Guard, Tinted Lens, Tough Claws)
Urshifu (Tinted Lens, Tough Claws)
Volcarona (Magic Guard, No Guard, Sheer Force)

A- Rank

Corsola-Galar (Prankster)
Hatterene (Psychic Terrain, Sheer Force, Tinted Lens)
Kommo-o (Poison Heal, Unburden)
Lucario (Aerilate, Galvanize, Magic Guard, Pixilate, Refrigerate, Scrappy, Sheer Force, Tough Claws)
Magearna (Sheer Force, Tinted Lens, Triage)
Polteageist (Dazzling, Psychic Surge, Queenly Majesty, Unburden)
Toxapex (Magic Bounce, Prankster, Unaware)
Tyranitar (Poison Heal)

B+ Rank

Clefable (Magic Bounce, Poison Heal, Regenerator)
Coalossal (Poison Heal, Regenerator)
Darmanitan-Galar (Magic Guard, Tinted Lens, Tough Claws)
Drifblim (Prankster)
Goodra (Regenerator)
Haxorus (Tough Claws)
Keldeo (Tinted Lens)
Necrozma (Magic Guard, Psychic Surge)
Rhyperior (Poison Heal, Regenerator, Tough Claws)
Wigglytuff (Magic Bounce, Poison Heal, Regenerator)

B Rank

Arcanine (Galvanize, Pixilate, Sheer Force)
Celebi (Intimidate, Magic Bounce)
Cloyster (Unburden)
Darmanitan (Magic Guard, Tinted Lens, Tough Claws)
Dracozolt (Tough Claws)
Drednaw (Magic Guard)
Eiscue (Dazzling, Queenly Majesty, Unburden)
Mantine (Magic Bounce, Unaware)
Mr. Rime (Sheer Force)
Vaporeon (Magic Bounce, Poison Heal, Unaware)

B- Rank

Arctovish (Strong Jaw)
Lycanroc (Tough Claws)
Noivern (Aerilate)
Ribombee (Mold Breaker)
Shuckle (Mold Breaker)
Sirfetch'd (Grassy Surge, Sniper, Tough Claws)
Slowbro (Regenerator)
Slowking (Regenerator)
Turtonator (Poison Heal, Regenerator)

C Rank

Orbeetle (Magic Bounce, Poison Heal)
Scrafty (Magic Guard)
Sample Teams Archive

Webs HO by RICEMAN
:urshifu: :golisopod: :rotom-heat: :noivern: :marowak-alola: :kyurem:
This team is simple:
Step 1: Set up webs with golisopod and u-turn to whatever will eats the opponents team
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Profit
Now to explain the sets:
Urshifu-RS: You have enough speed to outspeed max speed weavile after webs.Use bulk up to get BEEFY then abuse the opponent with technician boosted crits. Aqua jet is there to help pick up some revenge kills.
Golisopod: This is a thicc boye. enough spdef to live a life orb blue flare from modest mglo volcarona and enough def to live brave bird from jolly mglo ninjask. The crabhammer is there to ohko volc, the knock off is for utility, and the u-turn is to safely switch in your next mon.
Rotom-H: This is the damage control for the team. There is enough speed to outspeed weavile after webs, the rest was dumped into spatk and hp. The destiny bond is to help mitigate potential sweeps, the nasty plot is to punish passive play, the volt switch is for momentum, and finally blue flare is for big damage.
Noivern: This is to keep the team from losing to magic bounce on the sticky webs. Defog helps clear the field, taunt stop opposing chansey from just teleporting out, u-turn for momentum, and boomburst for a strong stab option.
Marowak-A: This is the breaker of the team. Almost nothing survives a +2 non resisted hit from this. Max speed to outspeed base 90 speed mons after webs. Swords dance on a switch, then clean up with the two stab options.
Kyurem: This is just a fun set. Hone claws to ensure triple axel never misses. Technician triple axel destroys teams, and ice shard is for revenge killing. Dragon darts over Scale shot as it outdamages scale shot at 4 hits.

Note: This team is very physical based so you will need to watch out for physical walls and the Burn status condition.

Primarina + AloWak balance by Axgwd
:tyranitar: :kommo-o: :volcarona: :mandibuzz: :primarina: :marowak-alola:
This team is a basic balance team with a defensive core of TTar Kommo-o and Mandi while also having alolawak as a breaker and Prim/Volc as setup sweepers and cleaners. TTar with bulletproof absolutely walls Alakazam only being able to be effected by trick, it’s access to spikes and shore up makes it a great pivot that allows it to have longevity along with accelrock to pressure things like Volcorona and Ninjask out. Kommo-o is the physically defensive pivot along with being the rocker of the team, dragon tail paired with hazard spam can quickly cause a lot of residual damage barring magic guard and with the influx of normals and steels, body press is still as great as ever. Volcarona is the first special sweeper here but also a pivot to magearna on the team, desolate land boosts the already strong blue flare to even higher power, and access to solar beam means it can snipe sound proof TTar as well as Bulky waters like Primarina on the switch. Mandi buzz is the defogger as well as another pivot on the physically defensive side. This time being able to check threats like Marowak and additionally provide a nice pivot for other physical mons. Alolan Marowak is the breaker, and actually can find opportunities to switch whether it be through normals or by Ko. The ability for it to sub makes it a very dangerous threat as it allows it to get free SD or launch a very strong stab attack without being risked, it’s dual stabs 1-2HKO a majority of the tier however keep in mind is very vulnerable w/o a sub. Lastly is primarina, who with the influx of Kommo-o and TTar has a lot of nice switchins and also can pose as a threat to a bunch of teams with poison heal + Calm mind.

RS Shifu balance by Aloopuriza
:noivern: :corviknight: :stunfisk-galar: :chansey: :golisopod: :urshifu:

Team relies on a 4 pokemon defensive core of chansey/Stunfisk-galar for special side and corviknight/golisopod for physical side. 3 of them having pivot moves to go into the offensive pokemon. Tinted Lens Urshifu allows to bypass type resistances and threatens pokemon that Noivern can't kill with Surging Strikes/Close Combat. Noivern offers speed control and revenge kill potential with Choice Specs Boomburst. The point is basically getting the right check in and pivot away to the appropriate offensive pokemon to either slowly wear down the ennemy with U-turn and the help of hazards of just OHKO things with Boomburst Spec or Surging Strikes/Close Combat Band.

Very Cool Zone VoltTurn with Prankwak by Aloopuriza

Galv Kommo Priospam by TNM

Webs HO by RICEMAN

https://pokepast.es/9d2e89c9d7f6b305

The premise of this team is to get up webs, and then then immediately put constant pressure on the opponent to prevent them from removing it.
Golisopod is the lead and pivot, webs for allowing the rest of the team to shine and minspeed U-turn allows it to tank a hit and get your breaker in immediately.
Noiverns role is to act as speed control + breaker. Specs aerilate boomburst takes care of anything that's not a resist or named Snorlax (or type dull). The focus blast is purely for Tyranitar on a switch in but I'd suggest clicking U-turn for momentum.

Tyranitar has enough speed to outspeed uninvested primarina. Knock off + head smash can ko corviknight on switch in after the stamina boost. Rocks is to take advantage of anything switching out to a resist (cobalion) and sucker punch is good for getting off some revenge damage before ttar bites the dust.

Gengar is just used to come in and hit hard with moongeist beam or sludge wave. The trick can help you cripple any incoming spdef walls (lax/dull) and focus blast is again for ttar.

Rotom heat is the get out of jail free card for this team. Prankster d-bond can ensure you don't get swept immediately. Nasty plot is on there to punish any passive play, blue flare and volt switch are just for stab damage.

Sheer force Life Orb kiss is there to stop an opponent from always clicking dragon darts. It KOs 252hp 4 spdef melmetal from full with heat wave and +2 Moonblast is doing 63-75% to 252hp/spdef+ lax. It also has enough speed to outspeed all non-scarf pults after webs.

No Retreat MGLO Cobalion voltturn by The Number Man

https://pokepast.es/6518f4768719ac38

This team is a fast paced bulky offense that aims to exploit the fairy normal steel cores that people like to put on their balance teams with MGLO cobalion. No retreat cobalion is a very strong wincon, ohkoing a big part of the meta, 2hkoing alot of mons that dont ohko it back such as golisopod and volting out of bad matchups such as rotom heat to put it in range for later. The defensive core of regen pod + regen null is a nice pivot based blanket check core (similar to skarmbliss) that lets you keep momentum or set/remove hazards vs a big portion of the meta. Pheal Gardevoir is the pex abuser because while pex is quite rare, it isnt easy for cobalion to beat so having something that cna come in on it repeatedly is very useful. Knock cripples mons like Null/Lax and any assault vester on the switch, making them easier to beat the next time it comes in. Prankbond Rotom is an emergency button and a decent breaker. It lives one boomburst from Noivern so u can bait it into staying in and kill it with a prankbond, as noivern is pretty tough for the team to switch into otherwise. Last is Dragapult with boots cuz Noivern/Gengar + webs demolishes this team, it's dazzling to check triage mons as well but that might not be necessary. Most of my games end with omniboosted Cobalion winning, so you should usually play the game with that in mind and just try to wear down its checks and get it in a good position.

Ghostspam bulky by WrathoftheLeopard

https://pokepast.es/18a2f8fa39a666e3

I am submitting this team as a sample for the STABmons and Almost Any Ability metagame!
It utilises possibly the two most broken Pokemon in the metagame, Dragapult and Gengar, to effectively utilize Choice items and threaten teams with Adaptability boosted dual STABs.
It also features the prominent defensive Normal-Fairy-Steel core of Snorlax, Primarina and Cobalion which greatly improves this team’s ability to handle opposing Dragapult (pivot into Cobalion to scout the move and set, them switch into the appropriate immunity).

Tinted Melmetal + Double Pheal balance by Icemaster523

https://pokepast.es/b2b549a81a5fc3c4

melmetal goes apeshit and just needs to be safetly pivoted in hence uturn corvid and rotom. rotom heat can go apeshit and provides a rain check while checking triagers with its typing. kommo is a blanket physical wall and rocker, same with corviK and form my hazard combo. both cover each other's weaknesses well. null is a blanket special check and my unaware mon. pheal primarina and kommo works well, it lets u slowly whittle at the enemy team until u crack them, and primarina gives me a general fighting and fire resist.
Jump

Specs Sylveon semistall by Tmi489

https://pokepast.es/733ee0c14559b54d

Lax hardcounters any special attacker who isnt fighting, psystrike, or some of the eruption/spout, and wins after 1 curse a lot of the time
Sylve gets in on a variety of mons like Komoo and Mandi and can be pivoted into then 2kos everything with a great typing
Mandi beats most phys attckers who set up, Gorsola beats the stupid fighting types and rocks (as well as those who break mandi), Pod is there for pivotting, Melm, and spikes, Jira is a scarfer with decent bulk.




MelmGar Balance by manu 11
:golisopod: View attachment 261391 :gengar: :melmetal: :lanturn: :weezing-galar:
The idea behind the team is to tank physical hits with Golisopod and Special hits with Lanturn and U-turn/Volt Switch out to the appropriate pokemon that can take out or threaten the opposing pokemon. Melmetal and Gengar are the 2 breakers. Type Null tanks on both sides and removes hazards. Weezing-G is another physical wall that takes care of dragon type pokemon and also sacrifies itself to take down threats that are too dangerous for the team.

Threats to the team : Physical Fire type like Cinderace and Marowak-Alola. Excadrill can also be threatening as this team has 4 ground weak pokemon.


https://pokepast.es/df469ece898a7e30 Balance by Snafutari
https://pokepast.es/d023ba45785989ef Webs HO by The Number Man


Arcanine Semistall by Snafutari
:arcanine: :magearna: :toxapex: :gourgeist: :umbreon: :vaporeon:
Description can be found in the link.



Wigglybruh Semistall by Snafutari
:wigglytuff: :gourgeist: :toxapex: :magearna: :chansey: :umbreon:
 
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Sample Teams
Almost Any Ability Ubers
:Calyrex-Ice: :Yveltal: :Eternatus: :Lugia: :Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: :Regigigas: by longhiep341
A balance team that revolves around the threats in the meta. Tinted Lens Calyrex-Ice is the cleaner, with Trick Room and potential +2 from Weakness Policy allowing it to 2HKO almost anything. Yveltal counters the prominent Calyrex-Shadow, while Eternatus beats Bulk Up Marshadow, Kyogre's Water Spout and non Mold Breaker GeoXern. Lugia is my form of hazard control since it boasts high speed and better mixed defenses, but Ho-Oh is also good. NDM's spread allows it to outspeed Calyrex-Shadow and Zacian-C at +2, acting as an alternative sweeper while also being a physical wall against Zacian-C. Regigigas helps lessen the pressure for Yveltal, since Specs Tinted Lens Calyrex-Shadow can 2HKO Yveltal after Rock, while also works as a great early game breaker and nuisance with Knock Off.
STABmons + Mix and Mega
Teams by longhiep341

:Braviary: :Blacephalon: :Groudon: :Darmanitan-Galar: :Victini: :Buzzwole:
A sun team with web support. Blacephalon is the main star, with Blue Flare in sun so strong it can even 2HKO Sablenite Blissey. Groudon runs max speed to outpace uninvested Arcanine. Victini is another breaker, with V-Create and Photon Geyser deleting all relevant threats in sun. Darmanitan-Galar is another form of speed control, with Scarf allowing it to outspeed up to fully invested base 166 and below (notable benchmark is Lucarionite Dragapult at 164 base speed). Buzzwole sets Web and also momentum with U-Turn. Braviary is there to punish Defog, while with Altarianite also walls Dragapult and other ghosts.
:Tapu Lele: :Kyurem: :Dragonite: :Rhyperior: :Zeraora: :Arcanine:
A Bulky Offense team with Kyurem and Zeraora as breakers. Zeraora's STABs nail the common Corviknight/Blissey(Chansey)/Toxapex core, while Kyurem can also break plethora of other defensive choices. Arcanine and Dragonite are the Espeed abusers, and Rhyperior is the team's mixed wall. Lele can act as an early game breaker or late game cleaner, but should be used carefully as it can hinder Arcanine and Dragonite's Extremespeed

STABmons + Almost Any Ability
Weavile + Fat setup spam balance by The Number Man

Trick Room by RICEMAN

Latios + GZap balance by youngsterjoeyv69

Rain offense by Atha

Standard Bulky Offense by Menace17
This is a really bulky team who strictly follow the recipe of a good STAAAB team . Dauntless Shield Swampert to set up rocks , take damage (that he can heal with Shore Up) pivot with Flip Turn and punish switch with PBlades . Weavile , a nuke with queenly majesty so he can come freely on pokes like Triage Buzzwole or Triage Togekiss due to his immunity to OWing, DKiss, DPunch and Leech Life (very useful when you're weak to barely all those moves )and punish them with a Stabed Glacial Lance or lock them with Switcheroo and then set up with Sword Dance . A Magearna Unaware , there is a lot of Set Up sweeper and this thing just wall most of them (MOST not all , don't try to come on a set up Heatran) , with a set up set because that's ironical and he's only check is Unaware Mag , funny isn't it ? A Tapu Fini with Poison Heal , he only have a support role , same as Swampert but on special moves , may need to change it . Heatran Magic Guard with Life Orb and autotomize , with that he can touch a lot of poke and after one Autotomize , even if he's not max speed ,he become really hard to Outspeed by his official check . And the last one , the Prio Abuser , Buzzwole Triage is one of the best poke , good movepool and a stab on two draining move , with his good bulk most of the time you'll have the opportunity to place one Bulk Up and then sweep .
Gale Wings Lando magpull by Menace17
This team is a counter to the actual STAAAB metagame and i tried to find an answer to every big threat, but this team is weak to Stealth Rocks.
First, the Heatran run magnet pull to trap Magearna and prevent a Healing move with Taunt, autotomize can be changed to an other move more useful like King's Shield but I let it since it's always useful to set up a Pokémon and then try to sweep with. Blue Flare and Earth Power are here to be sure to touch Flash fire and Levitate Magearna, obviously and unfortunately, most Magearna run Volt Switch but you can anticipate that to immediately send an answer like Landorus.
Stakataka, this Pokémon is here to check physical spammer like Glacial Lance Weavile and maybe Victini after one King's Shield (depend of the set but i don't think he can take a lot of V-Create if it's Sun/Band) and set up Stealth Rocks which are kinda underestimate in STAAAB.
My proudest creation : Band Landorus-T with Gale Wings and Dragon Ascent, the creator of this feeling when you don't have anything to check a Pokémon and you see the end coming. This Pokémon is just a monster, with Gale Wings you don't need to invest speed, you just have to click Dragon Ascent and see the opposite team die. Precipice Blade and U-Turn are here to punish/anticipate the opponent answer and destroy it and then let Landorus do the Job.
Weavile is also a classic, due to his new toy call "Glacial Lance" he's a real monster, Queenly Majesty is obviously to counter abomination like Triage Owing Togekiss or Triage Tornadus and the most evil of all, Gale Wing Landorus-T. Switcheroo is to lock the opposite Pokémon on a healing move and then kill with Glacial Lance, Knock off or set up with Sword Dance. The only Pokémon that may be a problem is Buzzwole which is threaten by Landorus.
Kyurem is just Kyurem, Sheer Force is actually a really good set and it can easily pressure when he's behind a Substitute, Roost can be run instead of something but i personally find Substitute better.
And the master piece, Tapu Fini, due to the good typing Tapu Fini resist to a lot of thing and check most of teams weaknesses like Fire and Fight, Defog is probably the most important move on the set, this team and particularly Landorus is very weak to SR that warn him to spam Dragon Ascent. Taunt is here to prevent entry hazarding Fleur Cannon to do some damage (you can put the 8Atk EV on SpA) and you don't care about SpA drop cause you can pivot with Flip Turn.
Teams by longhiep341:
:Togekiss: :Cloyster: :Victini: :Latios: :Ninjask: :Gengar:
A HO team with Ninjask to set hazards and Latios as the main threat. Dragon Energy from full HP 2HKOs many walls but the blobs, including physically defensive Steel/Flying, Assault Vest Lanturn and Incineroar, among others (still 17.6% to 2HKO against 248 HP/8 SpD), while Psystrike nails the blobs and most Fairies. Trick creates a setup bait for other members. Victini eliminates the Steel mons that can handle Latios (mostly Magearna). Togekiss and Cloyster are late game cleaners. Gengar's slot is a filler, I chose Sash Gengar to improve matchup against offense, you can replace it with whatever you want depending on what you want to beat (Pivot wall to bring others in safely, Water Absorb to ease time against rain, etc)
:Magearna: :Zapdos: :Tapu Lele: :Dracozolt: :Umbreon: :Steelix:
This team specializes in breaking defensive cores and stall. The combination of Doom Desire/Future Sight + Zapdos-Galar/Dracozolt can break any core since nothing can take both at the same time. Umbreon has Water Absorb since this team can struggle against rain and Psyspam otherwise. Thick Fat is an underrated ability, and Steelix makes great use of it. It can live a Mind Blown from Heatran, as well as tank all the Adaptability/Tinted Lens Glacial Lance that is trending. Protect is to lessen the risk against Tinted Lens Lando-T, which can outpace the whole team with Scarf and threaten the whole team with Tinted Lens Dragon Ascent/Precipice Blades.

Camomons + Almost Any Ability
Semiroom by Snafutari
:marowak-alola: :slowking: :chansey: :avalugg: :mew: :toxapex:

Triage Mag + Mglo Mew bulky offense by The Number Man
:mew: :magearna: :slowbro: :scizor: :mandibuzz: :dragapult:

Break with Pult + one of the two setup mons with assistance from slowbro future sights, use the other setup mon to win.

Pheal Pult tspikes balance by The Number Man
:dragapult: :jirachi: :toxapex: :mew: :mandibuzz: :kommo-o:

Set Tspikes, Poison the opposing ghost normal type, break with Mew then win with Pult.



AAA Doubles (Updated 8/17)
:marowak-alola: :necrozma: :amoonguss: :porygon2: :hatterene: :ferrothorn:
Trick Room
https://pokepast.es/88fe522b8a454420

Guess I should explain the Pokemon's abilities then. Magic Bounce is ridiculous on a Trick Room setter, so that's what I have in mind. I thought Necrozma filled the role as a good balance between offense and defense TR setter quite well, so I give it Magic Bounce. Hatterene has Psychic Surge to grant Expanding Force a power boost and hit multiple foes as well as replacing Misty Terrain and Electric Terrain which would have block Spore. As for others, Marowak has Adaptability to hit harder, Amoonguss cancels its Fire- and Ice-type weakness with Thick Fat, Ferrothorn gets fire immunity from Flash Fire and added to help my matchup against Water-type, Porygon2 has Friend Guard to increases its ally's durability when its active and because I can't think of any other good ability for it.

One big disadvantage the team has is against Urshifu Single Strike who can blow through Necrozma, Marowak, and Hatterene with Wicked Blow and use Close Combat on Porygon2. If you choose to improve Urshifu's matchup a bit, I would suggest replacing Hatterene's Protect or Trick Room with Dazzling Gleam.

:mew: :starmie: :politoed: :keldeo: :amoonguss: :kyurem:
Psyrain
https://pokepast.es/1ded4f6880f0c8c4
The star of this team is Starmie, with Tinted Lens, most of the supposedly resisted Pokemon cannot stand against its Expanding Force with the rain boosting the power for Water-type as well. I also get to run a more offensive spread for Mew with Psychic Surge supporting Expanding Force, so that's neat. Meanwhile, Keldeo has Swift Swim to act as a rain sweeper with Flip Turn to switch out.

And for those who are wondering why I'm using Politoed instead, as they say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", I guess I can use Rotom Wash, but it does have a Ground weakness if not running Levitate, so I backed down. Also because it has no helping hand and you would need to run a Nasty Plot set instead >:/ Kyurem acts as a countermeasure to opposing rain.

:terrakion: :arctozolt: :mew: :cinderace: :excadrill: :zeraora:
Sand
https://pokepast.es/fec553508c865793

Life Orb gang rise up
Not much else to say really. Terrakion sets up Sandstorm through Sand Stream, therefore doubling Artozolt's and Excadrill's Speed with Sand Rush, with the former can pierce through everything with Bolt Beak on everything that's not Prankster, Electric immunity, and Triage. Although I don't know who would want to use Triage. Since Libero's banned, I settled with the next best thing; Magic Guard Cinderace. Now you don't crash and burn when High Jump Kick hits Protect, but its accuracy still leaves a lot to be desired.

:weavile: :urshifu: (water) :mew: :dragapult: :zeraora: :togekiss:
Unseen Gang
https://pokepast.es/d43336efefc82a5e
I built this team to take advantage of Unseen Fists, that's it. I can't think of anything else that can take advantage of Unseen Fists besides Urshifu, so I picked it. Zeraora could work but it mainly acts as a utility attacker.


Update 8/17
STABmons Doubles

:dragapult: :type null::rillaboom: :bouffalant: :mew: :scizor:
Extreme Bouffalant
https://pokepast.es/41f92a0fbe0e9a69

Despite the team's name, it's actually built around with Dragapult in mind, with Type: Null transforming to it once Dragapult pulls off some Dragon Dance boost. I also want to find a good Extreme Speed user not named Greedent, so that where I come up with Bouffalant, who has the added benefit of coming with Sleep Powder immunity in Sap Sipper.

:alakazam: :indeedee::dragapult: :rotom-heat: :urshifu: :escavalier:
Baddy Bad Psyspam
https://pokepast.es/c6626bc3d20b0acf

The whole team is only designed to combat Extreme Speed in mind. Now that Darmanitan Galar has melted (f) and discussing that on Discord, I've replaced it with No Retreat Urshifu and Escavalier who could support it by redirecting moves while it sets up No Retreat and then bow to Rillaboom.

:weezing-galar: :urshifu: :scizor: :volcarona: :type null::dragapult:
Cringe Gas
https://pokepast.es/c25cae6edb04f18e

:kingler: Chansey is gone :crabby:

Anyway, Galarian Weezing greatly benefited from STABmons with Moonlight increasing its longevity and therefore shutting down anything that relies on ability longer. Sadly, the supposed main star of the show, Volcarona, was noticeable worse in STABmons Doubles, at least from my experience since many Pokemon gets better tools to deal with Volcarona, especially Spectral Thief whereas the best Volcarona gets is Fusion Flare and Blue Flare.

:tyranitar: :excadrill: :incineroar: :dragapult: :rotom-mow: :sylveon:
The Other Sand
https://pokepast.es/4f6ed3a9b3802500

It's a sand team, except it can beat Volcarona, sort of. Also, I want to try out V-create Incineroar. Losing speed sucks though. For other options, you could replace Excadrill's Stealth Rock with Rock Slide or Substitute.



Camomons LC
:onix: :trapinch: :abra: :ponyta: :mareanie: :vullaby:by Karl Dude Guy



:farfetchd-galar: :mienfoo::mareanie::mudbray::vullaby::abra:
Camomons LC: Scarf Fetch'd (In Progress) by Roldski32
I wanted to build a team around Scarf Fetch'd once more for post-DLC. 120 BP STAB on both Fighting and Flying alongside Scrappy is still a strong combo, so I tried building around helping Farfetch'd-Galar clean at late-game. Mienfoo weakens Fight-checks through Knock Off and U-turn. Mareanie provides both a Fairy and a Fire resist for this team. Mudbray is the rock setter, Abra check, Electric-check, and secondary Fairy check. Sleep Talk is used here to absorb Foongus' Spore. Vullaby is the hazard removal, and a soft check to Abra and Fighting-types. It helps Farfetch'd-Galar weakening Flying-checks to safely used Brave Bird, and serves as another pivot. Abra is a check to some set-up sweepers thanks to Focus Sash, and the team's offensive Special Attacker. Despite Ghost's ability to avoid Fake Out, Protect is still used here to scout Scarfers and what moves they are locked into.

Tier Shift AAA

Shared Power Anything Goes

If you would like to submit a sample team feel free to contact me here, on PS or on Discord (My handle is the same on all three platforms).
 
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Tour Code Repository
STABmons + Mix and Mega
Camomons + Almost Any Ability
STABmons + Almost Any Ability
Camomons + Balanced Hackmons
AAA Ubers
STABmons Ubers

Almost Any Ability LC
STABmons LC
Camomons LC
Balanced Hackmons LC

Almost Any Ability Doubles
Balanced Hackmons Doubles
Camomons Doubles
STABmons Doubles

Current spotlight: Almost Any Ability + Tier Shift



Would you like to contribute to our tour code? We'd love to have your contributions! Please contact me (The Number Man) either here or on showdown and let me know. Please check out out standards for code posted right below to see what we expect for all of our tours.
  • Must be functional
    • The most obvious, but also extremely important. We cannot make tours using code that has errors that will cause it to fail. This is easily testable using a groupchat.
  • Must be complete
    • It may be tempting to make shortcuts, such as not banning a competitively unviable Pokemon in a long list of Pokemon. However we require all code to adhere to the banlist it is following in order to avoid complex or arbitrary bans.
    • Similarly, if something is banned only in combination with something else, this must be represented in the code. For example, in a STABmons banlist you cannot simply ban Shell Smash, but have to ban Shell Smash on each non-native abuser.
  • Should be as simplified as possible
    • All of our banlists are subject to be edited and changed as the tiers evolve. A banlist that is neat is much easier to edit than one that is all over the place.
      • Keep like with like (move bans with move bans, clauses with clauses, etc.)
      • Do not have redundant bans or clauses
    • Overall this is subjective and how you choose to keep organized is up to you.
All code can and should be tested at least for validator functionality in a groupchat.
 
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Ransei

is a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributor
Other Metas Leader

The Ranshop is making a long overdue return to OM Mashups. This post is a compilation of Official OM Mashup teams I have built for everyone to use in PS battles. Anyone is free to take as many teams as they desire from this post and offer feedback on any flaw each team has so they can be fixed. The objective is to start off with at least three teams per Official OM Mashup, and starting next month, one team will be added for each Official Mashup per month. You can also expect several of these teams to have numerous hefty changes or even the chance of being outright replaced. Expect a complete revamp of the Ranshop as DLCs get released. Any feedback given would hopefully increase the quality of these teams as the months go by. Discord DMs, Pokemon Showdown PMs, and Smogon conversations are the best places to offer feedback, although you are free to publicly do so on this thread, our OM Mashups subroom, or our OM Mashups discord.​

Official OM Mashup Teams: Click on the Pokemon to receive a team.

NOTE: I only have a couple mashup teams for the ranshop as of now as I've had to delete some outdated ones post-home and need some time readjusting LC and Doubles teams to all of the changes made for Gen 8.

Legends of King Arthur's Bulky Offense

Melmetal Trick Room Offense

The DK Recovery Offense

Shards and Darts Offense
This is not a Natdex team

Sparkling Stones Offense

Offense - Nukes in the back

Grounded Dragon Soup Offense

Main part of this post coming soon.
 
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drampa's grandpa

#BlackLivesMatter
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
Glad to see we finally got the thread up! The initial banlists tend to be a little barebones, based on the tiers banlists and what we had last generation. Here's what I think we could see some discussion on.

STAB n Mega: Extreme Speed
Without Blue Orb, Celesteela, Lando-T, and similar physical walls Extreme Speed from Pokemon like Flareon is a lot more deadly this generation. We got a great new user in Obstagoon and kept a ton of the old ones like Snorlax and of course Flareon. Is this move worth restricting to its native (ab)users?

Camomons Doubles: Darmanitan Galar
Big boi banned from Camo and for good reasons. I don't play doubles, so I have no idea if the pain this thing dishes out is banworthy or not, but I think it's worth considering, if not a QB at the start of the metagame.

Almost Any Ability Ubers: Arceus
This generation Arceus can use any ability on any type (borrowing from Silvally mechanics). Is this broken? Overcentralizing? Is it only specific Arceus types and if so which ones?

That's all I have off the top of my head, but as I'm sure many of you have noticed I haven't been the most active player in recent months so please please please bring your comments and thoughts to the table! I want to hear them.

AAA Ubers and STABmons Ubers are national dex but do NOT include Z moves or Megas. All they include are the extra mons. Once we hit June and the new DLC hits we'll take a look at whether we want to change that to just being what's in the game itself, but for now please enjoy using all the extra mons.
Post tons of sets (with which meta they're for) so I can steal them :blobpex:

Finally: the op is still a bit of a WIP but it should be steadily improving. Any criticisms on design are fine but unless they're constructive / rather specific it's not going to get us anywhere because I'm actively working on fixing some of the flaws and inconsistencies.

I'm really glad this thread is up and really looking forward to the rest of gen 8.
 

Icemaster

is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
Ubers Leader
Going to drop some teams I've been using so far:

STAAABmons
:Ferrothorn: :Doublade: :Tyranitar: :Type-Null: :Hydreigon: :Gallade:
Ferrothorn + Doublade + Type:Null is a nice hazard controlling core. Bulletproof on Ferrothorn allows you to beat NP Lucario and Focus Blast Gengar, and Type Null is a good wishpassing blanket check to many mons (including clang-trip Hydreigon which is a huge threat). The idea behind this team was to basically spam slow-turn and wish into Tyranitar which can proceed to clobber nearly every switchin. Gallade offers some speed control and a secondary check to Hydreigon while having a really nice offensive typing allowing it to muscle past ferro/pex/corvi/fat normal cores. Fat normals seem immensely good in general (similar to chansey last gen) especially due to court change.

National Dex AAA Ubers
:Arceus-Dark: :Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: :Mewtwo: :Giratina: :Eternatus: :Xerneas:
I think gen 8 gave many gifts to defensive teams in Heavy Duty Boots and Dauntless Shield, allowing you to much more easily blanket check mons. Shadow Shield + Heavy Duty Boots is pretty powerful as it lets you safetly switch in to literally any hit, and I think it will be used a ton. Dauntless Shield Dusk Mane is a very good physical blanket check and can defeat Zacian. Mewtwo is even better than last gen as its dynamax is very very good (assuming dynamax is not banned), offering it sun, terrain and speedboosts. Nasty Plot is also just broken. Eternatus seems like another very good Sheer Force attacker, especially as literally all defensive mons cannot harm it. Dynamax Geomancy Xerneas is exceptionally powerful, it pretty much doesn't need an ability to boost its damage output so i went for Regenerator so you can more easily setup (you can aggressively do a bunch of doubles until you get into a safe setup opportunity while having high hp.)

CAAAmomons
:Tyranitar: :Corviknight: :Mew: :Toxapex: :Togekiss: :Ferrothorn:
Pretty standard looking fat balance. Mew is the star of the show here. Brave Bird + Flare Blitz is very good coverage, it just does nuclear amounts of damage. I feel Mew will be an S Rank mon, especially when it gets toxic and a healing move from Pokemon Home, as it can pretty much do everything very well with its access to DDance, NPlot, Defog, U-Turn etc.
 

Snafutari

Formerly NOC Unlucky 13
I don't exactly have a lot of teams this gen (losing any way to stop trick kinda made stall unviable in most metas), but I do have one that I want to discuss. Its a team for STAB 'n' Mega, just designed to spam ExtremeSpeed while not losing to opposing ExtremeSpeed spamming teams.


(You can click on the team for the paste)

Scarf Indeedee outspeeds max speed Obstagoon whilst not sacrificing Psychic Surge, allowing you to constantly check the spammers. Ditto throws a wrench into anyone's plans of setup sweeping, which ESpeed adores. Lopunnite Snorlax, Pinsirite Obstagoon, and Altarianite Flareon are the best ESpeeders around. and all of these are setup sweepers. Corviknight is in as a decent pivot that can check some of the ESpeeders.

What beats this team? I guess stall that gets lucky, but I'm pretty sure I'm the only one who plays stall in STAB 'n' Mega, and even the fattest of teams can get worn down easily. The mirror match can be a bit tricky, I guess, if they setup with Flareon, since I'm not certain if Indeedee/Ditto can kill.



Honestly, besides ExtremeSpeed, I think STAB 'n' Mega is in a really good spot at the moment, if it's not just outright the best mashup this gen. Seriously, nothing feels particularly OP, not even Eternatus, which is probably getting banned thanks to MnM, despite it getting Clangorous Soul (which, in all fairness, might need to get addressed, since it can help certain mons just runaway with the game). No particular playstyle is unplayable (unless we keep ExtremeSpeed), and nothing is completely overpowered. Stall, while being very effective, isn't unbreakable, and offense, while also being good, is not unwallable.

So basically I'm saying ban ExtremeSpeed.

One last little bit of cancer I wanna leave on this thread is a meme set. Like I doubt it'll be the best thing ever, but when it does work, it'll be annoying as all hell. I am talking, of course, about Banettite Duskull. I chose Duskull because it has the lowest HP value of all Ghost types with Pain Split, meaning it can do the most damage of all of them, and following that it also has minimum HP. Curse/Pain Split helps Duskull do a solid amount of damage, all with priority thanks to Banettite. Substitute means that Duskull is harder to kill once it switches in, leading to more frustration. The last slot is up to you. Destiny Bond can stop a setup sweeper cold, while Taunt helps it avoid opposing Taunts, making it even more infuriating.
 
I'll follow Icy's lead and drop a couple teams I've been using in assorted metas.

STAAAB
:Dragapult::Golisopod::Kommo-o::Corviknight::Gengar::Lucario:
Regenerator Golisopod is, in my opinion, an excellent defensive choice in the tier, especially on Balance or BO teams that appreciate a reliable Sticky Web setter. Golisopod is in an excellent place, being a physically bulky Pokemon with access to two hazards and one of the slowest pivots in the meta (beaten out only by the unviable Pincurchin and the less reliable Shuckle and Escavalier). Furthermore, it has excellent defensive typing and solid stats, resisting Drain Punch and surviving hits against all of the most threatening Dragons in the meta, able to U-Turn away and deal massive damage to Hydreigon.

Special Lucario is best run with one of three abilities. Adaptability threatens to OHKO or 2HKO frailer Pokemon and can even 2HKO many unresisted walls. Scrappy and Tinted Lens fulfil similar roles, although both are weaker than Adaptability. Scrappy's greatest draw is its ability to net a clean OHKO against Doublade with Aura Sphere or Focus Blast and its ability to pick of weakened Ghosts like Dragapult with Vacuum Wave, but it loses out on unboosted 2HKOs against specially defensive Corviknight and physically defensive Corsola. Tinted Lens allows Lucario to surprise physically defensive Toxapex and most Golisopod variants, and score cleaner 2HKOs against Doublade, but it also has similar issues to Scrappy.

Corviknight, Dragapult, and Gengar are rather straightforward. Corviknight is another slow pivot, the hazard clearer of the time, and fares well against special attackers that don't or can't carry Fire-type moves. With Dragapult and Gengar, you just start pressing buttons and life bars start vanishing.
Octolock Kommo-o is a hard counter to every Toxapex, has acceptable bulk on both sides, and preys on setup sweepers and defensive Pokemon lacking pivot moves.

CAAAMO
:Gengar::Hydreigon::Rillaboom::Cinderace::Gardevoir::Arcanine:
I, uh...I have a lot less to say about this team. Every Pokemon essentially boils down to "hit it 'til it dies." Ghost/Fighting Gengar is absolutely terrifying, especially backed by sleep and boosting, and Normal/Dark Rillaboom is a similarly overwhelming threat against unprepared teams. Rather brainless, but very fun to play!
 
I'm glad we finally got the thread up. Since everyone has been dumping teams I'm gonna do the same. The teams are not perfect so feel free to criticise or just use them as proof of concept.

1) STAAAB:

Swimteleon rain
:heliolisk: :inteleon: :rotom-fan: :ferrothorn: :doublade: :hydreigon:

I like vest hydreigon as it has nice utility moves while providing a secondary resists to "elemental" types along w ferrothorn, which is FF for desolanders. Anchor shot + Grav apple is a nice dual stab combo that can let Ferrothorn cheese past some passive mons that dont see the anchor shot coming. Bounce fantom is a decent stall/balance breaker that can set up on mons like ferrothorn and pex, doublade is a fairy/psychic pivot and Inteleon+Heliolisk are the rain core. Rain boosted specs spout has very few switchins outside of outright immunities so it can sometimes break teams singlehandedly, as well as outspeeding anything offense can throw at you outside of triage mons.

Power Trip Obstagoon Balance
:Obstagoon: :Doublade: :toxapex: :leafeon: :durant: :gardevoir:

This team was built around this weird obstagoon set. I think Power Trip users got some nice new toys this gen, namely speed boosting Rapid spin and Clangorous Soul. This Goon set is supposed to set up on passive mons while also clearing hazards with rapid spin. Knock off is there because you can't just threaten a SE hit (that isn't power trip) on ghosts, you need to actually have something for people who decide to spinblock your Obstagoon. It's possible the EVs should be put into attack, but after a few boosts anything drops to Trip anyway. The rest of the team is just a nice defensive core of Doublade + Pex + Leafeon, Gardevoir as a breaker and durant for speed control and powerful STAB uturns. It's possible Leafeon should run Shed Shell so it can abuse Anchor Shot Ferrothorn as you otherwise run the risk of being trapped.

Triage Mowtom BO
:Rotom-mow: :kommo-o: :excadrill: :dragapult: :toxapex: :corviknight:

Rotom is the best special triage mon we have currently (rip Togekiss). It's paired with octolock+taunt Kommo to eliminate passive mons, TL + Sunsteel Drill to pressure unaware and set rocks and Scarf Pult for nice speed control. The team is backed up by a VA Corvi + prank Pex defensive core.


2) CAAAMO:

Triage Hatt + Pheal Rilla BO
:rillaboom: :cinderace: :hatterene: :mew: :toxapex: :coalossal:
Rilla is basically obstagoon if it had pheal and a better attack stat. It's a pretty nice stallbreaker with SD and taunt for unawares. Ace has a very nice speed tier for revenge killing and hits ridiculously hard for a scarfer with high BP stabs and Desolate Land. Could easily run adaptability as well. Hatterene is great vs offense, with 408 spa life orb boosted triage Giga Drain/Draining Kiss. A decent staaab togekiss approximation. Beats most physical triagers too due to Fairy being SE on Fighting. The rest is just a defensive core that tries to soft check as much as possible. I'm not sure about pex's typing since im used to it being immune to Tox but G/N is really nice defensively.

Dragonspam BO
:coalossal: :cinderace: :dragapult: :kommo-o: :toxapex: :silvally:
Pretty similar team to the one posted above so I won't go in depth other than saying that Dragapult is an insane scarfer (albeit less so than in staaab) that can singlehandedly beat some offense builds. This team doesnt fare that well vs stall though.

Rain
:dragapult: :hydreigon: :inteleon: :corviknight: :mew: :kommo-o:
Basically water spam with dragapult as a rain setter with a nice speed tier. Should have a decent MU vs both offensive teams (inteleon + pult) and fatter teams (hydreigon + kommo). Mew and corvi are just a simple hazard control core. It's honestly possible that Mandibuzz should be ran over Corviknight as it can run the same set (with Steel wing over Iron head) and has better bulk.


3) Stab N Mega

Triple bounce balance
:dragapult: :lucario: :toxapex: :ferrothorn: :rotom-wash: :mandibuzz:
This is one of my earliest teams, before everyone clued into how broken Ditto was and before Espeed was complex banned (at the time we were hardbanning it to not play in Espeed: The metagame), so Lucario is a last minute add, but the slot was always occupied by a fighting type of some sort to pressure Snorlax.

Pseudo Sun offense
:rotom-heat: :chandelure: :rhyperior: :seismitoad: :corviknight: :ditto:

Zapdos spam
:toxtricity: :rotom-fan: :jolteon: :ditto: :hippowdon: :arcanine:
This team features an offensive core of two Electric/Flying mons (PinsToxtri and CamelTom), hence the name Zapdos spam. Basically most of the strongest walls are weak to electric (Pex, birds, Vaporeon), Hippo (or duggy) doesn't do much to Electric/Flying and Umbreon/Sylveon/Snorlax get taunted and eat Bolt Beak to the face from Toxtricity - also, sharing the same stab coverage they pressure each other's checks. Naturally I dont wanna get swept by Ditto copying one of my Zapdos' after a boost, so I improof them with Sceptilite Jolteon (lmao). Ditto and Arcanine can RKill, Hippo is sac fodder with rocks and can be used as setup fodder if it gets impostered and locks a non stone edge move - I should honestly probably replace edge with whirlwind or something. It also helps a bit vs annoying Vcreate spam.

4) Some thoughts:

STAB n Mega: Extreme Speed
Without Blue Orb, Celesteela, Lando-T, and similar physical walls Extreme Speed from Pokemon like Flareon is a lot more deadly this generation. We got a great new user in Obstagoon and kept a ton of the old ones like Snorlax and of course Flareon. Is this move worth restricting to its native (ab)users?
Definitely restrict Espeed imo. We havent found any good blanket checks yet (Avalugg maybe?) so you're forced to either out-espeed your opponent or run Indeede on every team. There are no Unaware or anti-priority stones either. Bonus replay to illustrate the issue. (I didn't play very well but the game snowballed out of control very quickly due to DrumSpeed)

Another issue I'd like to raise is Dragapult in STAAABmons. It's at the top of the usage stats for both AAA and STAB and it gets even better in their mashup. there's probably multiple viable sets, although I've been mostly using Scarf + Adaptability. It's speed tier, defensive typing (resists/is immune to a lot of priority bar Tyranitar) and Spectral thief means it's an insanely good revenge killer. It can also run Band which probably has a very limited amount of safe switchins (Grimmsnarl, Dauntless shield mons that resist/are immune to ghost, Avalugg) along with DD or special sets probably. The main reason I think it's "broken" is I've had scarf sets practically solo offensive builds multiple times. It could just be sample size, so I don't think a quickban is in order - suspecting would probably be best.

Some more STAAAB thoughts as I've played it a bit more than CAAAMO.

:doublade: :Excadrill: :Kommo-O: :Hydreigon:
Doublade is really good, especially against Power Trip dark types with no other Dark STAB. Most games it got at least one kill and was a very nice pivot. Buffed rapid spin, multi attack and court change make Normal types even better than before. Drill appreciates the spin buff a lot as it can run SD + Spin + Sunsteel on tinted lens sets and just snowball into a sweep sometimes. Octolock + Taunt PHeal mons like Kommo-O and Clangorous Soul + Taunt + Power Trip Pheal Hydreigon are very good at abusing passive mons. The best response to both of these strats are fat fairies which have been relatively underused in the games I've seen so far. Hydreigon especially can snowball out of control really quickly, especially Taunt sets as they prevent Prankster Pex (the usual blanket setup check on balance teams) from stalling you out and turn it into sac fodder.

That's all for now, would love to hear everyone else's opinion on Dragapult in STAAAB.

EDIT: Updated Hydreigon spread to maxspd so it can live 2 Specs spouts from Inteleon under rain.

EDIT 2: Added SNM teams.
 
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Best Gal

once upon a time wont last forever
gal reporting in to get axgwd to stop bullying me

I don't have any teams yet because I keep scrapping them halfway through or cobbling random stuff together that doesn't function, so here's other stuff instead:

no pinch binch (Pangoro) @ Chople Berry
Ability: Mirror Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- No Retreat
- Power Trip
- Drain Punch/Mach Punch
- Sucker Punch/Bulk Up

The idea here is that Mirror Armor prevents stat reduction meaning you can get a strong Power Trip and not have to worry about things like Sticky Web or Intimidate. You could probably run a faster variant to avoid getting outpaced and Spectral Thief'd but Dragapult will always outpace you even at +1, so I run Sucker Punch over Bulk Up in most cases unless I am confident I can kill Dragapult (and the hefty HP invest to try and get around being slapped up while setting up a No Retreat). Drain Punch is better than Mach Punch in most cases but sometimes you get scared of being beaten up by a random band breaker and wanna have priority. That's fine too :p

Chople Berry is to try and prevent getting revenged by Triage Drain Punch; I haven't calced anything so it might still kill from like 50% ish but I doubt it. Probably use this set on Screens :L

Dragapult @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Dragon Darts
- U-turn
- Shadow Sneak
- Hydro Pump/Spectral Thief

I saw this set a while back in AAA and totally plundered it; Dragon Darts is upsettingly powerful with Technician boost and Shadow Sneak allows you to get some incredibly cheeky kills. You hit just barely weaker than a Banded Scizor Bullet Punch (the most comparable mon imo, thanks to Technician only being given to dumb mons otherwise) and you constantly threaten to pivot out with U-Turn. Initially I ran Hydro Pump to hit Excadrill but honestly it's barely even worth it since some of them run Water Absorb anyways and you want to be pivoting out on Excadrill anyways. Besides that, Toxapex and Corviknight are the premiere switchins on Dragapult, neither of which even feel a Hydro Pump; just click U-Turn or Darts and be done with it.

Dragapult has too many viable sets to know what is coming at preview, and even aside from that can bust through mons that check it with the correct coverage options. It feels really centralizing in STAAAB, I think I'd lean even towards quickbanning.

Speaking of quickbanning


coldsteel (Durant) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Tinted Lens
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 160
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- First Impression
- Double Iron Bash
- Stone Edge

Initially I was running a pretty hot Gorilla Tactics Band set but then Gorilla Tactics got banned and I just changed the ability+item.

Changing from Band to Scarf made it almost worth it 100% of the time to click Double Iron Bash. The flinch chance is majorly tempting with this set.

But, like, if I'm going for flinch, why not make it easier?

serene grace (Durant) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double Iron Bash
- First Impression
- U-turn
- Rock Slide

So I made this bullshit and started winning games off of flinch chance, none of which I saved because I'm a doofus.

tl;dr get double iron bash out of my sight please good lord it's uncompetitive

that's it for official content because I've been underperforming gen 8 so far

I already posted this a few places, but for sake of ease-of-use, here are the OM UU tour codes for January 2020. I'm gonna try and keep up with this monthly, I may just update this post as needed.

https://pastebin.com/2xL3VnQ6

--tba: some stuff for those metas--
 
AAA LC

Due to changes in AAA, where the banned Ability is restricted across all pokemon, even on native users. Diglett, Trapinch, Wynaut and Gothita are now unable to used Arena Trap(on the former 2) and Shadow Tag (on the latter 2).


Cutiefly @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Level: 5
EVs: 236 SpA / 244 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 19 HP
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Bug Buzz / Sticky Web
- U-turn / Sticky Web

Sheer Force Life Orb grants Cutiefly immediate power to hit pokemon hard, even without Quiver Dance. This power also allows Cutiefly to forced a switch and set-up Webs, and it is already fast (2nd fastest unboosted pokemon) that it will almost always goes first.


Dauntless Shield will be a great addition in this generation. The ability grants a +1 Defense boost just on the switch-in.

Balanced Hackmons LC

Ponyta @ Eviolite
Ability: Desolate Land
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 236 Atk / 236 Def / 236 SpA / 236 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Knock Off
- Close Combat
- filler
With the reduced amount of 19 and 20 Speeders (dropping from 21 to only 8), Ponyta is going to benefit a lot in terms of Speed Tier. Though, V-Create still has drawback in reducing its Speed to the point slower pokemon like Mareanie can outspeed Ponyta after a Speed drop, even something like Spritzee can speed tie with it. 116 HP EVs is used instead of 196 HP EVs to reduced Stealth Rock damage.

Dreepy @ Ghost Memory
Ability: Normalize
Level: 5
EVs: 212 HP / 196 Atk / 196 Def / 196 SpA / 196 SpD / 180 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Close Combat
- Entrainment
- Shift Gear
The Normalize sweeper. Unfortunately, it is so frail that it has hard time to switch in safely, and a stray Knock Off (one of best moves in Little Cup) can heavily damage it.

Camomons LC
Glad we get another LC Mashups here

Fighting
/
Flying

Farfetch'd-Galar @ Choice Scarf / Eviolite
Ability: Scrappy
Level: 5
EVs: 20 HP / 236 Atk / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Brave Bird
- Knock Off
- Defog / Swords Dance

This would potentially get banned, Fighting/Flying are near unresisted combination, and combined with 95 Attack stat and high powered STAB between Close Combat and Brave Bird, this pokemon can nuke most things. Scrappy also invalidates Ghost-typing.
STABmons LC

Extreme Speed is going to be on my watchlist.

Losing Barrier hurts its ability to stay in against other physical attackers after it traps something, and the additional boost for Stored Power. Charm still exist, and with the removal of Pursuit, its still banworthy.


Losing Shore Up hurts its longevity (still no news whether or not Palossand is in the DLC).


Dreepy @ Life Orb
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Atk / 116 Def / 180 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Dragon Darts
- Shadow Sneak
- Substitute
Ghost/Dragon are close to unresisted STAB combination, which is only resisted by Pawniard. Dreepy is fast(3rd fastest pokemon),given with the limited 19 and 20 Speeder. Clear Body is used over Infiltrator to avoid stat drop from Sticky Web. In addition, Spectral Thief and Dragon Dart can bypass Substitute. Dreepy has a rather average Attack stat, and couple with its dual STAB hitting very little for super-effective damage(one reason why Dragon-types aren't good in LC), it finds itself reliant of the raw power of its STAB moves and Life Orb to alleviate this. Choice Scarf works to outspeed faster boosted pokemon such as Onix, Quiver Dance users(except Cutiefly) and Impish Shellder or Focus Sash to guaranteed survived a hit and steal a boost, but Dreepy loses notable KOs or 2HKOs that Life Orb provides.

It seems we're missing Mix and Mega LC... but I have one problematic thing that needs to be addressed from it after Pokemon Home is released:

Vulpix has Drought in its base forme, which allowed it to equipped Heat Rock to further extend the sun duration. It also gained access to Memento, which supports Chlorophyll users to set-up Growth. Charizardite Y also grants any user access to Drought upon Mega Evolving, which is used as secondary setter in case Vulpix was KOed. Between Solarbeam and Weather Ball (and Sludge Bomb in Bulbasaur's case), it hits a lot of things for at least neutral damage. Both Cherubi and Bulbasaur are capable of outspeeding every fastest Megas with sun up, including fast Diancite users. Both Eviolite set and Life Orb set are handled somewhat differently, and Eviolite sets are still able to KO a majority of pokemon after a Growth boost, while being able to survived strong priority. Then there's Houndoominite, which grants users a Special Attack boost under sun. Depending on the user, both Houndoominite and Chlorophyll have nearly different answers to each other. Their combined offensive prowess might forces teams to pack multiple answers to each abuser, which is further worsen by the removal of Blue Orb in this generation. Would be defensive answers would find themselves get overwhelmed by their repeated attacks.

Anyways, LC Mashup resources coming soon.
 
Before I begin, I will declare a quickban on Fishious Rend in STABmon Doubles. The reasoning is the same as what got it banned in regular STABmon; there's a sizable amount of Water-type physical attacker abusing it at its fullest with Gyarados and Seismitoad having Power Whip to OHKO Gastrodon which would have redirect Fishious Rend otherwise. I'm also not going to make Octillery good, vish vish. Since I didn't have any Double Mashup tournament, I will be covering any potential threat instead.

Potential threats in STABmon Doubles:

:whimsicott: :grimmsnarl: :hatterene:
Decorate
Decorate is definitely on my top list, it's essential a Swagger that doesn't require Misty Terrain that also can support Special Attacker. Whimsicott and Grimmsnarl both have Prankster to use Decorate first before the ally does and providing speed control through Tailwind and Thunder Wave (respectively). Grimmsnarl also has Fake Out to provide momentum and can set up Reflect or/and Light Screen. Meanwhile, Hatterene acts more as a Decorate user for Trick Room team and could run all status moves without worrying about Taunt thanks to Magic Bounce. Follow Me and Rage Powder can counter this move, but not everyone's going to run redirection move and redirector are skewed towards the defensive side. For now, it's best for me to see it in action or some discussion of it first before banning Decorate.

(Side note: Dark-type ally are affected by Prankster and Psychic Terrain)

:snorlax: :greedent:
Belly Drum
I am conflicted on this one, on the one hand, there doesn't seem any non-native user that can take advantage of Belly Drum. But if they managed to pull it off, you're going to have a bad time since Extreme Speed is legal. With how good Belly Drum is, it's bound to have extensive support. Alternatively, I could do something with Extreme Speed instead. Let me know what you think by discussing it.

:togedemaru: :boltund: :dracozolt: (:zeraora:)
Bolt Beak
In all honesty, I would rather ban it before Zeraora is released. While the current users of Bolt Beak seem unimpressive so far, the speed changes now applying in mid-turn rather at the start of the turn makes it easier to have its power doubled. Also, most Rhyperior prefer Solid Rock over Lightning Rod leaves us with... Togedemaru.

:whimsicott: :rotom-wash: :ludicolo: :tsareena: :rillaboom:
Spore
With the lack of a good Electric and Misty Surge user, Spore is going to be more dangerous this time around with the lack of Sleep Clause in Doubles. The good news is we can always go back and grab a Gen 6 relic that is Safety Google. I will see if that ended up being a practical way to block Spore or not in action.

Though once the Tapu is released, I will unban Spore if it ends up being banned.

Other threatening stuff:
Clangorous Soul: Every Dragon can greatly benefit from it, but it doesn't seem too overwhelming so far despite stuff like Hydreigon with it and Power Trip sounds horrifying
Spectral Thief: Steal boosts from Dynamax

Stuff that's not considered banworthy:
:darmanitan-galar: While it's an amazing offensive threat, it's easily revenge-killed there and it's not going run Ice Shard.
No Retreat: seems too risky to be worth using for now
Quash: please use prankster thunder wave instead, it's better since you can mind your own business afterward

Potential threats in AAA Doubles:

Steam Engine, Rattled, and Weak Armor
Those abilities are on my top list with the speed mechanic changes. Slap Weakness Policy on them, have the ally to use moves they're weak to and witness them wreaking havoc. The sooner I can get them banned, the better.

Stamina
While Stamina was all but ignored in Generation 7, the introduction of Body Press makes this ability a legitimate ability for cheese.

Wandering Spirit
Have a Diggersby use U-turn on the user, GG!
 
One thing I forgot to mention earlier when talking about STAAABmons.
Looking at the code, I noticed that neither Extremespeed nor Double Iron Bash are restricted (or banned I guess). I've been manually banning them as I don't think unrestricted Espeed and DIB make for a healthy metagame, but I think we should reach an official decision on this regardless. Afaik DIB + Serene Grace equals 80% flinch chance which is very uncompetitive (Spin + DIB serene grace drill, Scarf serene grace Durant among other options), whereas unrestricted Espeed means you can use things like Scrappy Drumspeed Snorlax (which can't even be prankhazed since Espeed is higher priority). Anyway I think restricting these moves to their native users would be the best way to go forward.
 
Camomons LC Setpedia is now here. While it is still in progress, feel free to contribute by posting sets( or other sets of the existing pokemon below). Click the typing inside the bracket to see the set.

Camomons LC Setpedia
:abra: Abra [ Psychic / Fighting ] [ Psychic / Ghost ]
:amaura: Amaura [ Ice / Ground ]
:anorith: Anorith [ Ghost / Dark ]
:archen: Archen [ Ground / Flying ]
:arrokuda: Arrokuda [ Water / Fighting ]
:bunnelby: Bunnelby [ = / = ]
:carvanha: Carvanha [ Water / Psychic ]
:clauncher: Clauncher [ = / = ]
:corphish: Corphish [ Water / Dark ]
:cufant: Cufant [ Steel / Fighting ]
:darumaka: Darumaka(Galar) [ Fire / Fighting ]
:diglett: Diglett [ Ground / Flying ]
:dratini: Dratini [ Normal / Dragon ] [ Normal / Fire ]
:dwebble: Dwebble [ = / = ] [ Rock / Ground ] [ Ground / Bug ]
:elekid: Elekid [ Electric / Psychic ]
Farfetch'd-Galar [ Fighting / Flying ]
:ferroseed: Ferroseed [ = / = ] [ Grass / Steel ]
:frillish: Frillish [ Water / Fighting ] [ Water / Grass ] [ Grass / Poison ]
:grookey: Grookey [ Grass / Fighting ]
:inkay: Inkay [ = / = ]
:koffing: Koffing [ Poison / Electric ]
:lileep: Lileep [ Grass / Poison ]
:magby: Magby [ Fire / Fighting ]
:mareanie: Mareanie [ Water / Poison ]
:meowth-galar: Meowth-Galar [ Steel / Fighting ]
:mienfoo: Mienfoo [ Fighting / Bug ] [ Fighting / Flying ]
:mudbray: Mudbray [ Ground / Steel ]
:omanyte: Omanyte [ Water / Ground ]
:onix: Onix [ Rock / Ground ] [ Ground / Fighting ] [ Fighting / Steel ]
:pawniard: Pawniard [ = / = ]
:ponyta: Ponyta [ Fire / Ground ] [ Fire / Fighting ] [ Fighting / Ground ]
:ponyta-galar: Ponyta-Galar [ Psychic / Fighting ]
:porygon: Porygon [ Electric / Ice ] [ Ghost / Electric ] [ Ghost / Dark ]
:salandit: Salandit [ Dragon / Fire ]
:sandygast: Sandygast [ Grass / Poison ]
:scraggy: Scraggy [ Fighting / Poison ]
:shellder: Shellder [ Water / Rock ]
:shellos: Shellos [ Water / Ground ] [ Water / Poison ]
:slowpoke: Slowpoke [ = / = ] [ = / = ] [ = / = ]
:spritzee: Spritzee [ = / = ] [ = / = ] [ = / = ]
:staryu: Staryu [ Water / Electric ] [ Water / Fighting ]
:timburr: Timburr [ = ] [ = / = ] [ Normal / Fighting ]
:trapinch: Trapinch [ Ground / Bug ] [ Ground / Fighting ] [ Ground / Grass ]
:trubbish: Trubbish [ Fighting / Poison ]
:tyrunt: Tyrunt [ Psychic / Fighting ] [ Fighting / Fighting ] [ Fighting / Ground ]
:vullaby: Vullaby [ Dark / Flying ] [ Steel / Flying ]
:vulpix: Vulpix [ Fire / Grass ]
:wynaut: Wynaut [ Ghost / Normal ] [ Psychic / Fighting ]
:zigzagoon: Zigzagoon [ Normal / Dark ]
 
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drampa's grandpa

#BlackLivesMatter
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
The first spotlight of Generation 8 is STABmons + Mix and Mega!
This spotlight will run from today (Janurary 15) until the new one begins on February 15. Please use this time to focus on and discuss the metagame in depth. We hope to develop some resources in this time, and in addition we will hopefully be able to develop the banlist to balance out the metagame, to which end...

We are now strongly considering QUICKBANNING Extreme Speed in STAB n Mega.
Reasoning for why it is so oppressive has been given in this thread. If you have any reasoning why it should remain please give it now. At the end of the day tomorrow it will be quickbanned unless there are significant high quality arguments presented in this thread as to why it should not be.

In other news...

Double Iron Bash is now QUICKBANNED from STAAABmons. Double Iron Bash is completely uncompetitive and does nothing to improve the metagame. The flinch chance, occasionally compounded by Serene Grace, takes the game out of the hands of either player and puts it into the hands of the RNG, which is completely undesirable. While other strong Steel attacks remain in the metagame, they lack the signature flinch rate that makes Double Iron Bash's counterplay so notoriously luck-based on anything that cannot move first.

We are considering a SUSPECT or QUICKBAN of Extreme Speed in STAAABmons. This is rather preliminary, but it has become apparent that many of the tools that were available for dealing with espeed last generation STAAAB have been either nerfed or removed. Please let us know all your thoughts.

Note that these bans would not apply to Pokemon that get the moves naturally.

The code for Camomons BH has been updated! (Check it out if you want). Essentially the new changes should make Darmanitan-Galar-Zen and the Crowned formes of Zacian and Zamazenta both work as they should.
Thanks to We Wuz Nidokangz for writing that up and walking me through why it wasn't as broken as I thought.

tl;dr
Our first spotlight is STABmons + Mix and Mega

Extreme Speed is being discussed for a quickban in STABmons + Mix and Mega
Double Iron Bash is quickbanned in Stabmons + Almost Any Ability
Extreme Speed is being discussed for either a quickban or a suspect in STABmons + Almost Any Ability

Camomons BH should be fixed! Thanks We Wuz Nidokangz
 

Snafutari

Formerly NOC Unlucky 13
For ExtremeSpeed's ban in STAB 'n' Mega...I was going to write a lengthy satire of people who advocate for ExtremeSpeed to stay, whilst explaining that it absolutely shouldn't be legal, but...

[13:24:56] %New Old Competitor: time to write a satirical post for espeed in SnM
[13:25:11] +sobbel: if u write an antiban post
[13:25:13] #Ransei: smh i'm not liking your post
[13:25:14] +sobbel: i wont delete it
[13:25:17] +sobbel: ill delete u
[13:25:36] #Ransei: D:

A little bit later...

[13:27:02] %New Old Competitor: also sobbel would you do that even if I make sure to make it obvious I'm making fun of people who want it to stick around, and even say "/s" at the end?
sobbel has lost the match 1 - 4 against The Number Man.
[13:27:20] +sobbel: ig we'll see >:)
[13:27:47] %New Old Competitor: monkaS


Warning: I get incredibly angry here. Like, stupidly angry about things in a Mongolian dog-fighting simulator.

That said, there is something I wanna get off my chest about ExtremeSpeed. If you've spent any time in the chat while I'm around, you'll know that I like stall. Its what I do, I'm basically the resident staller. As such, it can be inferred that I'm not a huge fan of offense (also evidenced by the fact that I will advocate that Eternatus can come back in STAB 'n' Mega), and really don't give a rats ass what happens to it. So when I realized that it was broken, I decided that I should use it, just so that people would become aware to just how big of a problem it is to keep around. The very first tour I used ExtremeSpeed spam in, I made it to the finals with almost no effort, and only lost because my opponent ran Indeedee+Ditto since they knew ExtremeSpeed was legal. Since then, I built a team that both spammed ExtremeSpeed and still had ways of dealing with opposing ExtremeSpeed. I never lost a single game with it. And to be frank, I'm keeping it around in case someone makes the incredibly stupid mistake of making a STAB 'n' Mega tour with it legal, because holy fuck is it broken, and there is no way it can ever be not broken. Even if we ban the 3 best ExtremeSpeeders (Flareon, Obstagoon, and Snorlax), more will just come and fill in their roles so we would never notice their absence. Like, fucking Snorlax was enough to end games on its own (see the replays I'll leave if you are unconvinced), and not even with any serious effort put into it. Like all you gotta do is lead Corviknight, Mega and use U-turn, swap into the appropriate ExtremeSpeeder, setup whilst mega-ing, click one button, and you win. It isn't any fun at all to use or to fight, and that's what really gets me pissed. ExtremeSpeed, because of how broken it is, made me feel obligated to take my favorite metagame, and play it in a way that actively made people, including myself, not have fun. What makes this even worse, though, is that there was a fucking poll in the main chat that asked if we should quickban it right then or let it stay legal until we got our thread, and for some dumbfuck reason, everyone voted for it to stay. Those are the people I'm pissed the most at. Like, we could've had a healthy format around a month or 2 ago, but you had to ruin everyone's fun, because you voted about something that was broken in a metagame you never played. Seriously guys, don't vote in a poll about stuff in a meta you haven't played. Like, I wanted to play around with a silly Duskull set for around a month now, but fucking ExtremeSpeed says no, and your vote prevented that.




Anyway, how about a more pleasant conversation involving the best mashup?

To start with, I'm of the opinion that Eternatus can likely come back. Offensive Eternatus was easy to wall, though offense couldn't just let it get a free Clangorous Soul (another move that probably should be put on the watchlist). Defensive Eternatus didn't exactly do much for the metagame, besides being a pretty decent check to rain (something Mantine did much better for stall), and I guess checking Lopunnite Cinderace (something Toxapex does incredibly well anyway). I'm having a hard time trying to figure out a specific niche Eternatus has to itself, since it generally has to compete for a slot with plenty of other Pokemon that have more utility to offer. I'd have to say that we should probably unsuspect it.

Another thing to keep in mind is how electric weak most stall teams are; Mantine, Toxapex, and Corviknight are absolutely stall staples, and all of which are weak to Electric types. As such, if you have any real trouble with them, I'd advise that you pick up some sort of Electric powerhouse. Jolteon immediately comes to mind, but there are plenty of other undiscovered gems that can likely do the same thing. Vikavolt can likely do something like this, and has an incredibly strong matchup against stall with Quiver Dance. Not sure what stone it'd use, but I'm really surprised its not used much.

Another Pokemon I feel is kinda slept on (because I personally slept on it) is Alcremie. It naturally learns Recover+Aromatherapy. It kinda has a hard time dealing with setup (aside from Encore, which can be cool, I guess), and it has limited new gains, pretty much just gaining Moonblast and Strange Stream, but perhaps it can see some actual play here in STAB 'n' Mega. I honestly don't have much to say about it, just that it might have potential.

One thing I want to talk about is a Pokemon I've heard a certain Moderator: Silvally. I'm honestly not sure how I feel about this coming back, but being restricted from using stones. Like sure, it gets every move in the game, but on the other hand, 95 BST all the way around is kinda meh here. I can definitely see it going either way, but I'd be okay with a suspect test (if we are willing to do this kinda suspect, since I can imagine it being a nightmare to code).

While I believe Indeedee will be much worse without ExtremeSpeed in the format, it does have potential. STAB Boomburst+Psystrike/Photon Geyser is kinda crazy. Oh wait, its Normal type is its secondary STAB, meaning it can run Altarianite to have incredible Fairy/Psychic STAB coverage. Definitely something we should at least keep an eye on, since it does appear to be a frightening with its great STABs. Also, it has access to all the cool utility moves that Normal gives access to, which is quite useful (Perish Song seems particularly interesting to help force more swaps).


I've got nothing else to talk about right now, I just need to get some sleep to prep for a new season of STAB 'n' Mega Spotlight, so...yeah, I suck at closing out these long rants about STAB 'n' Mega.
 
With the reduced amount of pokemon currently, including some of notable pokemon in the past generation, made me feel STAB n Mega is different when it comes to building the team. Though, time will come for me to get used to it. Here's one set I randomly think:


Dragapult @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moongeist Beam
- Dynamax Cannon
- Fire Blast
- U-turn

Also, I'm gonna delay the LC Mashup Resources a little bit, as I'm going to try focusing more on contributing the Spotlight.
But I'm going to tell the upcoming resources such as:
  • Balanced Hackmons Little Cup Speed Tier
  • Balanced Hackmons Little Cup Setpedia
  • AAA LC Setpedia
  • STABmons LC Setpedia
  • Balanced Hackmons Little Cup (Small)Guide
  • LC Mashup Sample Team
As well as more thoughts on pokemon in certain LC Mashups.

Edit: Forgot to mentioned Sample Teams for LC Mashups, my LC teambuilder is filled like half-lc mashups, and the rest were regular ones i used :/
 
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drampa's grandpa

#BlackLivesMatter
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
We are now strongly considering QUICKBANNING Extreme Speed in STAB n Mega.
Reasoning for why it is so oppressive has been given in this thread. If you have any reasoning why it should remain please give it now. At the end of the day tomorrow it will be quickbanned unless there are significant high quality arguments presented in this thread as to why it should not be.
A little late but

Extreme Speed is now BANNED from non-native users in STABmons + Mix and Mega
Tour code will be updated shortly
 
Balanced Hackmons Little Cup Speed Tier is now here. Will update this to include more pokemon later.

Balanced Hackmons Little Cup Speed Tier
Legend: Pokemon / Nature / IVs / EVs / Boost

22 Speed:
:munchlax: Munchlax / Positive / 31 / 236 / +2

20 Speed:
:diglett: Diglett / Positive / 31 / 236 / 0

19
:abra: Abra / Positive / 31 / 196 / 0
:cutiefly: Cutiefly / Positive / 31 / 244 / 0
:diglett-alola: Diglett-Alola / Positive / 196 / 0
:meowth-alola: Meowth / Positive / 31 / 196 / 0
:ponyta: Ponyta / Positive / 31 / 196 / 0
:ponyta-galar: Ponyta-Galar / Positive / 31 / 196 / 0
:staryu: Staryu / Positive / 31 / 236 / 0
:wingull: Wingull / Positive / 31 / 236 / 0

18
:dreepy: Dreepy / Positive / 31 / 180 / 0
:gastly: Gastly / Positive / 31 / 196 / 0
:salandit: Salandit / Positive / 31 / 220 / 0
:stunky: Stunky / Positive / 31 / 244 / 0

17
:chinchou: Chinchou / Positive / 31 / 220 / 0
:drifloon: Drifloon / Positive / 31 / 196 / 0
:drilbur: Drilbur / Positive / 31 / 212 / 0
:helioptile: Helioptile / Positive / 31 / 196 / 0
:mienfoo: Mienfoo / Positive / 31 / 236 / 0
:natu: Natu / Positive / 31 / 196 / 0
:onix: Onix / Positive / 31 / 196 / 0

16
:chinchou: Chinchou / Neutral / 31 / 220 / 0
:farfetch Farfetch'd-Galar / Positive / 31 / 236 / 0
:larvesta: Larvesta / Positive / 31 / 196 / 0
:mime jr.: Mime Jr. / Positive / 31 / 196 / 0
:pawniard: Pawniard / Positive / 31 / 236 / 0
:rufflet: Rufflet / Positive / 31 / 196 / 0
:vullaby: Vullaby / Positive / 31 / 196 / 0
:wailmer: Wailmer / Positive / 31 / 236 / 0

15
:pawniard: Pawniard / Neutral / 31 / 236 / 0
:scraggy: Scraggy / Positive / 31 / 212 / 0
:swirlix: Swirlix / Positive / 31 / 204 / 0
:tangela: Tangela / Neutral / 31 / 196 / 0
:vullaby: Vullaby / Neutral / 31 / 196 / 0

14
:krabby: Krabby / Neutral / 31 / 236 / 0
:mareanie: Mareanie / Neutral / 31 / 236 / 0
:mudbray: Mudbray / Neutral / 31 / 236 / 0
:pumpkaboo-large: Pumpkaboo-Large / Neutral / 228 / 0
:scraggy: Scraggy / Neutral / 31 / 212 / 0
:swirlix: Swirlix / Neutral / 31 / 204 / 0

13
:cufant: Cufant / Neutral / 31 / 196 / 0
:frillish: Frillish / Neutral / 31 / 196 / 0
:koffing: Koffing / Neutral / 31 / 236 / 0
:porygon: Porygon / Neutral / 31 / 196 / 0
:pumpkaboo-super: Pumpkaboo-XL / Neutral / 31 / 188 / 0
:shellos: Shellos / Neutral / 31 / 244 / 0

12
:corsola-galar: Corsola-Galar / Neutral / 31 / 196 / 0
:hippopotas: Hippopotas / Neutral / 31 / 180 / 0
:honedge: Honedge / Neutral / 31 / 212 / 0
:ponyta: Ponyta / Positive / 31 / 196 / -1
:spritzee: Spritzee / Neutral / 31 / 252 / 0

11
:morelull: Morelull / Neutral / 31 / 236 / 0

10
:ferroseed: Ferroseed / Neutral / 31 / 196 / 0
:munchlax: Munchlax / Neutral / 31 / 236 / 0

8
:pumpkaboo-large: Pumpkaboo-Large / Negative / 0 / 0 / 0
:pumpkaboo-super: Pumpkaboo-XL / Negative / 0 / 0 / 0

7
:corsola-galar: Corsola-Galar / Negative / 0 / 0 / 0

6
:spritzee: Spritzee / Negative / 0 / 0 / 0
:honedge: Honedge / Negative / 0 / 0 / 0

5
:ferroseed: Ferroseed / Negative / 0 / 0 / 0

4
:munchlax: Munchlax / Negative / 0 / 0 / 0

Moving on to the spotlight:


Silvally @ Altarianite
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Blue Flare
- Strength Sap
- Quiver Dance
It appears that Silvally holding a Mega Stone is legal from STAB n Mega's tour code and is not listed on the banlist, was this intentional?
 
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Snafutari

Formerly NOC Unlucky 13
Just one of the best SnM stall teams I've made doop-do-dooooo

Corviknight is kinda a staple not just on stall, but on pretty much every team; Sablenite makes it one of the slowest pivots in the meta (only slower pivot is Orbeetle/Hatterene with Teleport), while its phenomenal type and great stats make it an excellent start to any battle. Spite is ran to help pp stall annoying moves, like Stealth Rock. I EVed it so that it can survive Diancite Dragapults modest Fire Blast (you'll notice that I may have overprepared for Dragapult with this team). Next up is Aggronite Snorlax, the best Snorlax set right now. Again, EVed to hard counter Dragapult, and I found out later it can hard counter Charizardite Y Chandelure before mega evolving, and Darkest Lariat allows you to threaten both of them. With that, the last in the nigh unbreakable core is Banettite Toxapex, one of the best anti-setup Pokemon in the current metagame with Prankster Haze. For those who haven't played STAB 'n' Mega, you may see Poison Fang and wonder "why?" Well, the answer is that Magic Bounce is incredibly common, and Toxic would simply bounce back, while Poison Fang not only allows you to Toxic things through Taunts, but also let you Toxic bouncers. Audinite Umbreon is probably the hardest counter to Dragapult just because of its type, though it can check a fair few things anyway (Psychics don't worry you too much as long as Umbreon is around). Rotom-Wash is easily the best Pokemon in the meta, besides Ditto (spoiler alert, the last Pokemon), with its obscene movepool and one of the best types in the game. Roost is used over Strength Sap because Magic Bounce is annoying, and Spectral Thief is used over Haze because Taunt is also annoying. Lastly, Ditto is used because Ditto is broken.

Key weakness in this team's armor are physically offense setup sweeping Electric types, though its not like those are super common yet, and most of the time Rotom-Wash and Ditto are enough to handle them when they show up. Also, if your opponent shows up with Ditto, prepare for a long AF game. Not kidding, Ditto+a solid core can lead to some incredibly long matches unless someone fucks up, even potentially hitting the turn limit. Excadrill can be very tough to deal with; While Rotom-Wash wins easily after it Mega Evolves, it can't do so until after it gives up Mold Breaker. General RNG can lose you the game as well, so be lucky and you shouldn't lose many games with this.


Just some other notes on STAB 'n' Mega:
  • Double Iron Bash is completely unrestricted. Why the fuck is it not at least restricted? Seriously, why? It makes dealing with Excadrill an absolute nightmare, since right when you're in a dominant position, oops, you get flinched! I understand that most of us just ban it from the tours we make, but something that causes this much RNG should never be tolerated anywhere.
  • Ditto is kinda busted right now. Remember what I said about stall fighting Ditto can potentially reach the turn limit? That's best case scenario. Worst case scenario offense has to make itself play less effectively to be able to play around Ditto. The problem is that Ditto is the best revenge killer in the meta right now, and it still has a strong match up against stall, due to having basically infinite PP.
  • Kinda a hot take with this one, but Eternatus can probably come back and not make that huge of an impact on the meta. Most I see it doing is bringing Rotom-Wash down a tier from S rank, at best. At worst, it'll have no impact on the metagame at all. Between Excadrill and Rhyperior, Eternatus' defensive utility is kinda limited, while Toxapex does literally everything it can do defensively, but better. Again, the only thing that Eternatus has that Toxapex doesn't is the ability to beat Rotom-Wash, but Rotom-Wash can simply run Ice Beam on offensive sets and just laugh.
  • At least currently, Silvally seems kinda...underwhelming. Sure, it can run every move in the game, and that is scary indeed. Sure, it also has good stats for any mega stone, but that's where the problem starts; it can't be any type but Normal if it holds a mega stone, and its stats are just decent with non-Normal types. It almost certainly will have a niche, don't get me wrong, but it just hasn't found one yet. I will probably be proven wrong about Silvally being underwhelming later on, but it seems like it can keep its stones for the time being.
 
I've played quite a bit of SNM over the weekend so I can actually share some of my impressions on the current meta.

1) First of all Ditto, which Noc already mentioned by I wanna elaborate on why I think it's such a big deal:
- The meta is lacking in revenge killing options as there are not many ubers that could hold a scarf and Espeed has recently been restricted, leaving Ditto as the most obvious and also most universally useful revenge killer. Not to mention it insulates you against stall, but pack some powerful breakers if you don't wanna play 200 turn games.
- The meta walls are very powerful and very hard to dent with unboosted mons (mostly because there are no ubers that could hold choice items and score 2hkos), which is why setup based wallbreakers are extremely important if you want offensive pressure. However if your wallbreaker can effectively break down the opposing team, chances are it can put a big dent into yours as well, which makes opposing ditto very dangerous and a natural response to all the powerful setup threats.
TL:DR on Ditto being broken: No revengekillers, a lot of setup sweepers; hence Ditto is S+ rank.
I have honestly not seen a Dittoless team win in a while. I was testing a new team that was packing a lot of firepower but my mons were slow which left me vulnerable to fast mons like Cinderace in lategame scenarios, but adding Ditto fixed that easily.

2) Silvally, which both Noc and Roldski mentioned. Is it an oversight or is it being able to hold megastone intended? Either way I don't see offensive silvally sets getting much traction in the meta while Ditto is a part of it, unless we figure out how to improof it, so I honestly don't think keeping it unbanned is an issue rn.

3) Eternatus and Zacian. Both were banned in MnM but I think we could retest them to see how they impact the metagame, since it's quite a bit higher in power level than base MnM.

4) Rotom-Wash and other forms. While Washtom (another S tier mon) is easily the best of the bunch, I'd say most of the forms are viable. The sets are very customizable, both in the stone it holds and the moves it runs. I've had Absolite Washtom w Nasty Plot actually 6-0 due to perfect coverage vs a team without Snorlax - which is really the only mon that can wall it with any measure of success. It puts ridiculous pressure on everyone's favorite defensive cores (ferropex and corvipex) with its offensive sets and can be a great pivot with its utility/defensive sets due to access to Sap, Defog, Aromatherapy and Spectral Thief among other things.

5) Speaking of rotom forms, I've also had success with Char Y Heattom as part of a two-mon Sun core together with Houndoominite Chandelure. Rotom hits hard as is, as well as pivoting into Chandy, which can pretty much 2hko anything under Sun (even Spdef Thick Fat Lax premega, so maybe its time to run Venusaurite Lax or sth). This strat became infinitely more viable now that Blue Orb isnt a thing anymore.

6) I'd also like to mention Rhyperior. The first set I used was Lucarionite Rocks SD Head Smash EQ which easily ohkos Corviknight after an SD and basically puts a lot of pressure on any defensive mon really, letting you keep up rocks or score a kill on defoggers. I then saw Icemaster use Scizorite with Rockblast, Bonerush SD and Accelerock and i think this set has a lot of potential - the only thing I changed was ditching Rock Blast for Smack Down. Heracronite for skill link is also viable.

7) A team featuring the Sun core of Heattom + Candle as well as Rhyperior:
:rotom-heat: :chandelure: :rhyperior: :seismitoad: :corviknight: :ditto:

Seismitoad is a way to improof my Chandy as well as guaranteeing rocks vs Mbounce. Corvi is pretty self explanatory although I should probably make it Sablenite (had a different Sablenite user prior to adding Ditto). The other mons I already talked about.

To summarise, Ditto might be broken and we should suspect it or something, Silvally has been underwhelming and I think we could also retest Etern and Zacian.
 
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Stab n Mega:
Gyarados @ Audinite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Roost
- Thunder Wave / Power Whip / Something Else
- Taunt

I don't know if this is just a meme or not but gonna post it. Defensive Gyarados has advantages over Toxapex/Milotic/other waters - most notably a Ground immunity and Intimidate pre-mega. It can check physical Dragapult, V-Create users like Arcanine and Cinderace, and Mamoswine(?). Taunt allows Gyarados to eventually wear down other walls - including defensive Rotom (who does around 40% post-mega with Volt Switch). Scald hits Rhyperior harder post-mega and gives that sweet burn chance, though Gyara is a shaky check to it. Mayyybe DD Gyarados will be a better/more useful set, especially if Dragapult goes. -os/-asite pex might be straight up better but you got TAUNT
Gyarados @ Altarianite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Liquidation
- Body Slam
- Roost

You could definitely optimize the speed tiers here, just don't feel like it right now. You beat a lot of stuff that's faster than you like Dragapult and Cinderace anyway. Loses to common stuff like Rotom and Corviknight. You could also try Gyaradosite EQ since rotom's so good.

Stab Ubers + National Mons:
Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Clangorous Soul
- Dragon Darts
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
(assuming dexit'd mons have their gen 8 compatable moves from gen 7)
completely fun, completely balanced
especially if you have shore up and thousand arrows in natdex ou rules
Clangorous Soul as a whole might be completely unfair considering the amount of Uber dragons available, some with actually good recovery.
 
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