TSAAA Team Sample Submission
Lilligant Based Team (idk how to make cool names)
LILLIGANT (pokepast.es)
Lilligant Based Team (idk how to make cool names)
LILLIGANT (pokepast.es)
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Project OM Mashup Megathread
- Thread starter RICEMAN
- Start date
Played a bunch of Gen 7 AG MnM so I'm gonna leave my teams here.
oh yeah right where was i
To no one's surprise, Zygarde is a dominating force in AAA Doubles. It has a large variety of abilities to choose from something offensive such as Adaptability to defensive options such as Poison Heal or Thick Fat all blending very well with its perfect coverage in Thousand Arrows and well-rounded stats. Still, I would hear your thoughts about it first before I take any action.
As for Dragonite and Archeops...
While Archeops boasts impressive power with Magic Guard Head Smash, unlike stuff like the forbidden Urshifu Single Strike or Genesect, Archeops cannot take any hit at all, making it easy prey for being revenge-killed. It also doesn't run Earthquake due to not gaining STAB from it as spread move deals 25% less damage on multiple targets and there's the possibility of Grassy Surge and Levitate, making its coverage less impressive when compared to its Singles counterpart, which consists of Rock Slide, Knock Off and U-turn if you're going for Choice Band. Perhaps something else would better like Technician.
The prevalence of priority immunity abilities such as Psychic Surge and Dazzle doesn't favor Dragonite at all with its reliance on Extreme Speed (I mean you could use Body Slam but still) and is otherwise slow without it. Just like the aforementioned Archeops, it cannot run Earthquake and a generally good way to check Dragonite is Intimidate. Overall, I'm just as unimpressed by it.
To no one's surprise, Zygarde is a dominating force in AAA Doubles. It has a large variety of abilities to choose from something offensive such as Adaptability to defensive options such as Poison Heal or Thick Fat all blending very well with its perfect coverage in Thousand Arrows and well-rounded stats. Still, I would hear your thoughts about it first before I take any action.
As for Dragonite and Archeops...
Yup, I don't think they worth the banhammer treatment at all. Now let me get into detail on why.
While Archeops boasts impressive power with Magic Guard Head Smash, unlike stuff like the forbidden Urshifu Single Strike or Genesect, Archeops cannot take any hit at all, making it easy prey for being revenge-killed. It also doesn't run Earthquake due to not gaining STAB from it as spread move deals 25% less damage on multiple targets and there's the possibility of Grassy Surge and Levitate, making its coverage less impressive when compared to its Singles counterpart, which consists of Rock Slide, Knock Off and U-turn if you're going for Choice Band. Perhaps something else would better like Technician. The prevalence of priority immunity abilities such as Psychic Surge and Dazzle doesn't favor Dragonite at all with its reliance on Extreme Speed (I mean you could use Body Slam but still) and is otherwise slow without it. Just like the aforementioned Archeops, it cannot run Earthquake and a generally good way to check Dragonite is Intimidate. Overall, I'm just as unimpressed by it.Weakness Policy and Rattled have been banned in AAA Doubles! (for now)
One of the main issues regarding Weakness Policy in AAA Doubles is Cresselia, whose bulk and type makes it a perfect candidate for the item with either Stamina or Rattled as its ability. To make matter worse, Cresselia has access to Stored Power, allowing it to snowball with ease. Even if Cresselia's out of the picture, the usual Mew and Necrozma can take its place. Since Weakness Policy doesn't have that many competitive uses otherwise, therefore I believe the best course is to ban Weakness Policy in AAA Doubles.
As for Rattled, I initially thought it would be fine without Beat Up. But with further testing, that is not the case, so it's banned again with the speed mechanic changes in Generation 8. Leaving the only speed boosting ability that can activate multiple times in a turn being Weak Armor that comes with a drawback that its defense being lowered when activated, therefore being more vulnerable to priority attacks or when Trick Room's up.
That being said, I could see that Cresselia might worth potentially banworthy in AAA Doubles.
Also, let's move on to STABmons Doubles.
From my experience, Thundurus Incarnate has proven itself to be one of the most dominating Pokemon in the format with its combination of Oblivion Wing and especially Prankster Tailwind. Now it isn't exactly the only Pokemon with the combination of Prankster and Tailwind in town, that honor goes to Whimsicott, but it did suffer from four moveslot syndromes even worse and doesn't run recovery move too much. Of course, Thundurus could surprise its opponent with Defiant, but focusing on Prankster would be the best course for now and I can definitely see a ban for it in the future depending on Thundurus's future performance. While Tornadus Incarnate has the same combination, its coverage is significantly worse compared to its brother.
One of the main issues regarding Weakness Policy in AAA Doubles is Cresselia, whose bulk and type makes it a perfect candidate for the item with either Stamina or Rattled as its ability. To make matter worse, Cresselia has access to Stored Power, allowing it to snowball with ease. Even if Cresselia's out of the picture, the usual Mew and Necrozma can take its place. Since Weakness Policy doesn't have that many competitive uses otherwise, therefore I believe the best course is to ban Weakness Policy in AAA Doubles.
As for Rattled, I initially thought it would be fine without Beat Up. But with further testing, that is not the case, so it's banned again with the speed mechanic changes in Generation 8. Leaving the only speed boosting ability that can activate multiple times in a turn being Weak Armor that comes with a drawback that its defense being lowered when activated, therefore being more vulnerable to priority attacks or when Trick Room's up.
That being said, I could see that Cresselia might worth potentially banworthy in AAA Doubles.
Also, let's move on to STABmons Doubles.
From my experience, Thundurus Incarnate has proven itself to be one of the most dominating Pokemon in the format with its combination of Oblivion Wing and especially Prankster Tailwind. Now it isn't exactly the only Pokemon with the combination of Prankster and Tailwind in town, that honor goes to Whimsicott, but it did suffer from four moveslot syndromes even worse and doesn't run recovery move too much. Of course, Thundurus could surprise its opponent with Defiant, but focusing on Prankster would be the best course for now and I can definitely see a ban for it in the future depending on Thundurus's future performance. While Tornadus Incarnate has the same combination, its coverage is significantly worse compared to its brother.
Thundurus (M) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Oblivion Wing
- Tailwind
- Protect
You could replace Protect for Roost, but I won't recommend it because of how important Protect can bring to the table, especially regarding Fake Out. If you did so anyway, I suggest having Tsareena in the team due to the fact it's unaffected by Psychic Terrain.
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Oblivion Wing
- Tailwind
- Protect
You could replace Protect for Roost, but I won't recommend it because of how important Protect can bring to the table, especially regarding Fake Out. If you did so anyway, I suggest having Tsareena in the team due to the fact it's unaffected by Psychic Terrain.
The new mashups spotlight is STAB n Mega! January 18th to February 1st.
Code can be found in the repository post but I'll paste it here as well:
Have fun with the spotlight and if you have any sets/teams you'd like to share or any opinions on tiering decisions, feel free to post in this thread!
Code can be found in the repository post but I'll paste it here as well:
Code:
/tour new [Gen 8] Mix and Mega, Elimination
/tour rules STABmons Move Legality, *Acupressure, *Belly Drum, *Bolt Beak, *Boomburst, *Double Iron Bash, *Extreme Speed, *Fishious Rend, *Geomancy, *Lovely Kiss, *Shell Smash, *Shift Gear, *Spore, *Thousand Arrows, *Transform, *V-create, *Wicked Blow, *Mamoswine, *Zygarde-Base, +Urshifu-Base
/tour autostart 10
/tour autodq 4
/tour name [Gen 8] STABmons Mix and Mega
Quick SNM update:
Astral Barrage was restricted in STABmons a while ago. We have decided to implement the restriction in SNM as well. For the foreseeable future, STABmons move restrictions will carry over to SNM, unless explicitly unbanned by the council. Updated code can be found in the repository.
TLDR: Astral Barrage is restricted in SNM.
thanks to Just A Jew for bringing this to my attention
Astral Barrage was restricted in STABmons a while ago. We have decided to implement the restriction in SNM as well. For the foreseeable future, STABmons move restrictions will carry over to SNM, unless explicitly unbanned by the council. Updated code can be found in the repository.
TLDR: Astral Barrage is restricted in SNM.
thanks to Just A Jew for bringing this to my attention
STABmons Doubles announcement: Astral Barrage has been banned with Thundurus Incarnate NOT banned and Diamond Storm remain banned via council voting!
Votes:
Like Glacial Lance, Astral Barrage can hit multiple foes with fantastic neutral coverage. However, Spectrier has proven to be a very notorious user of it, which takes advantage of its hitting multiple foes capability with its Grim Neigh that can be further bolstered by Nasty Plot if it gets the chance to set up through its ally's support, therefore requiring Dark- or Normal-type to withstand against it. For this reason, Astral Barrage got banned with a unanimous vote.
There was a discussion about whether or not Diamond Storm should be unbanned with its mechanic changes implemented where it only triggers the boost once it hits and not on each Pokemon, but after some testing, it was ultimately decided that Diamond Storm is still too strong since, at the end of the day, a defense boost is still a defense boost, therefore it remains banned.
As for Thunduurs-Incarnate, it is decided to take a look upon due to its ability to set up Tailwind with Prankster while having a good offensive stat and Oblivion Wing giving it extra longevity. However, Thundurus remains free by one abstain vote.
Now, feel free to discuss it, any feedback is appreciated.
Votes:
| Astral Barrage | Thundurus-Incarnate | Diamond Storm | |
| HeatEdgeSword | Ban | Ban | Do not unban |
| Roldski32 | Ban | Abstain | Do not unban |
| Ainzcrad | Ban | Do not ban | Do not unban |
| Result | Ban | No ban | No unban |
Like Glacial Lance, Astral Barrage can hit multiple foes with fantastic neutral coverage. However, Spectrier has proven to be a very notorious user of it, which takes advantage of its hitting multiple foes capability with its Grim Neigh that can be further bolstered by Nasty Plot if it gets the chance to set up through its ally's support, therefore requiring Dark- or Normal-type to withstand against it. For this reason, Astral Barrage got banned with a unanimous vote.
There was a discussion about whether or not Diamond Storm should be unbanned with its mechanic changes implemented where it only triggers the boost once it hits and not on each Pokemon, but after some testing, it was ultimately decided that Diamond Storm is still too strong since, at the end of the day, a defense boost is still a defense boost, therefore it remains banned.
As for Thunduurs-Incarnate, it is decided to take a look upon due to its ability to set up Tailwind with Prankster while having a good offensive stat and Oblivion Wing giving it extra longevity. However, Thundurus remains free by one abstain vote.
Now, feel free to discuss it, any feedback is appreciated.
Hey, since I noticed LC Mashups is in the dailies now (Saturday 7PM GMT+1.), which unfortunately I can't join due to timezone issue(that's 2AM GMT+8 in my place, i still sleep). I will going to put all the links to the resources for easier grab to everyone else, and I will be updating most of it later.
LC Mashup Sample Teams
Almost Any Ability Little Cup
What is Almost Any Ability Little Cup?
Pokemon can used almost any ability in a Little Cup format.
Pancham @ Eviolite
Ability: Triage
Level: 5
EVs: 180 Atk / 100 Def / 212 SpD / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Zen Headbutt
- Swords Dance
Ponyta @ Eviolite
Ability: Desolate Land
Level: 5
EVs: 236 SpA / 76 SpD / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Will-O-Wisp
- Morning Sun
Staryu @ Eviolite
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 5
EVs: 156 Def / 116 SpA / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Thunder / Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin / Ice Beam
- Recover
Banlist:
Resources:
- Setpedia
- Role Compedium
Balanced Hackmons Little Cup
What is Balanced Hackmons Little Cup?
Anything that can be hacked in-game and is usable in local battles are allowed, in a Little Cup format
Ruleset and Clauses:
ComaTalk Clause: Sleep Talk can't be run on a Pokemon with the Comatose ability
Dynamax Clause: Dynamaxing is not allowed
Endless Battle Clause: Forcing an endless battle is banned, similar to the rest of PS
Evasion Moves Clause: No moves that can increase Evasion are allowed. This does not include abilities or items that may modify Evasion passively such as Sand Veil or Brightpowder
Sleep Moves Clause: Moves that cause opposing Pokemon to fall asleep are not allowed. This excludes self-inflicted sleep or Comatose
Forme Clause: You may only use one of each forme of a Pokemon on your team. (Example: you can use both Ponyta and Ponyta-Galar on the same team)
Banlist:
Abilities: Arena Trap, Contrary, Gorilla Tactics, Huge Power, Illusion, Innards Out, Intrepid Sword, Libero, Magnet Pull, Moody, Neutralizing Gas, Parental Bond, Protean, Pure Power, Shadow Tag, Stakeout, Water Bubble, Wonder Guard
Resources:
- Setpedia
- Speed Tier
Camomons Little Cup
What is Camomons Little Cup?
Pokemon can change its typing to match their first 2 moves in a Little Cup format.
/
Abra @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Level: 5
EVs: 76 Def / 236 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Dazzling Gleam
- Psychic
- Substitute
/
Diglett @ Life Orb
Ability: Arena Trap
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Aerial Ace
- Sucker Punch
- Substitute
Dratini @ Life Orb
Ability: Shed Skin
Level: 5
EVs: 244 Atk / 36 SpA / 196 Spe
Naughty Nature
IVs: 0 HP
- Extreme Speed
- Double-Edge
- Fire Blast
- Brutal Swing
Council:
Roldski32 (Leader)
Banlist:
Resources:
- Setpedia
- Type Compedium
STABmons Little Cup
What is STABmons Little Cup?
Pokemon can learn any (non-restricted) move of their typing in a Little Cup Format
Mudbray @ Eviolite
Ability: Stamina
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 156 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Heavy Slam
- Shore Up
- Stealth Rock
Dreepy @ Life Orb
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Atk / 116 Def / 180 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Dragon Darts
- Shadow Sneak
- Substitute
Vulpix @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drought
Level: 5
EVs: 52 HP / 196 SpA / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Eruption
- Blue Flare
- Energy Ball
- Hypnosis
Banlist:
Resources:
- Setpedia
Mix and Mega Little Cup
WHAT IS MIX AND MEGA LC?
In this metagame, players may only use Pokémon that have not yet evolved, are capable of evolution, and are obtainable at level 5 in-game. These Pokémon can use Mega Stones to gain the stats and abilities of those mega evolutions.
Council:
WMAR (Leader)
Aggrometaile
TrainerGoldAlt
Ruleset :
Smogon-wide clauses
Mega Stone Clause: A limit of one of each Mega Stone may be used.
Banlist:
Resources:
And another thing...
Astral Barrage remains unbanned in LC STABmons!
Reasoning: There's simply no broken abusers of this move in this mashup from what i've seen, its either they have average/middling offensive stats(Dreepy) or slow without a Choice Scarf(Frillish). Frillish and Dreepy were probably your best option for an Astral Barrage user, but they're not Gengar/Blacephalon level of brokenness for me to ban the move yet. In terms of resist, Pawniard and Vullaby are both good, and there's some instances of running both of them together in one team, due to different things they offer; Pawniard is a bulky offensive mon that acts as a Fly-resist, Abra check, and Porygon check into one slot + other things such as a Defog deterrent on Webs HO. Vullaby is... Vullaby, a number 1 Top Tier mon with a over 70%+ usage in LC.
LC Mashup Sample Teams Almost Any Ability Little Cup What is Almost Any Ability Little Cup?
Pokemon can used almost any ability in a Little Cup format.
Pancham @ Eviolite
Ability: Triage
Level: 5
EVs: 180 Atk / 100 Def / 212 SpD / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Zen Headbutt
- Swords Dance
Ponyta @ Eviolite
Ability: Desolate Land
Level: 5
EVs: 236 SpA / 76 SpD / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Will-O-Wisp
- Morning Sun
Staryu @ Eviolite
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 5
EVs: 156 Def / 116 SpA / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Thunder / Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin / Ice Beam
- Recover
Banlist:
Corsola-Galar
Cutiefly
Drifloon
Gastly
Magby
Rufflet
Scraggy
Scyther
Sneasel
Swirlix
Tangela
Vullaby
Vulpix-Alola
Zigzagoon-Base
- Baton Pass
- Sticky Web
- Arena Trap
- Chlorophyll
- Comatose
- Contrary
- Fluffy
- Fur Coat
- Gorilla Tactics
- Huge Power
- Ice Scales
- Illusion
- Imposter
- Innards Out
- Intrepid Sword
- Libero
- Moody
- Neutralizing Gas
- Parental Bond
- Protean
- Pure Power
- Shadow Tag
- Simple
- Stakeout
- Speed Boost
- Unburden
- Water Bubble
- Wonder Guard
Resources:
/tour new [Gen 8] LC, Elimination
/tour rules !Obtainable Abilities, -Arena Trap, -Comatose, -Contrary, -Fluffy, -Fur Coat, -Gorilla Tactics, -Huge Power, -Ice Scales, -Illusion, -Imposter, -Innards Out, -Intrepid Sword, -Libero, -Moody, -Neutralizing Gas, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Simple, -Stakeout, -Speed Boost, -Unburden, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, +Cherubi, +Gothita, +Woobat
/tour autostart 7
/tour autodq 4
/tour name [Gen 8] Almost Any Ability Little Cup
/tour rules !Obtainable Abilities, -Arena Trap, -Comatose, -Contrary, -Fluffy, -Fur Coat, -Gorilla Tactics, -Huge Power, -Ice Scales, -Illusion, -Imposter, -Innards Out, -Intrepid Sword, -Libero, -Moody, -Neutralizing Gas, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Simple, -Stakeout, -Speed Boost, -Unburden, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, +Cherubi, +Gothita, +Woobat
/tour autostart 7
/tour autodq 4
/tour name [Gen 8] Almost Any Ability Little Cup
/challenge [Gen 8] LC @@@ !Obtainable Abilities, -Arena Trap, -Comatose, -Contrary, -Fluffy, -Fur Coat, -Gorilla Tactics, -Huge Power, -Ice Scales, -Illusion, -Imposter, -Innards Out, -Intrepid Sword, -Libero, -Moody, -Neutralizing Gas, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Simple, -Stakeout, -Speed Boost, -Unburden, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, +Cherubi, +Gothita, +Woobat
- Role Compedium
Balanced Hackmons Little Cup What is Balanced Hackmons Little Cup?
Anything that can be hacked in-game and is usable in local battles are allowed, in a Little Cup format
Ruleset and Clauses:
ComaTalk Clause: Sleep Talk can't be run on a Pokemon with the Comatose ability
Dynamax Clause: Dynamaxing is not allowed
Endless Battle Clause: Forcing an endless battle is banned, similar to the rest of PS
Evasion Moves Clause: No moves that can increase Evasion are allowed. This does not include abilities or items that may modify Evasion passively such as Sand Veil or Brightpowder
Sleep Moves Clause: Moves that cause opposing Pokemon to fall asleep are not allowed. This excludes self-inflicted sleep or Comatose
Forme Clause: You may only use one of each forme of a Pokemon on your team. (Example: you can use both Ponyta and Ponyta-Galar on the same team)
Banlist:
- Scyther
- Sneasel
Type: Null
- Baton Pass
- Bolt Beak
- Court Change
- Double Iron Bash
- Shell Smash
- Arena Trap
- Contrary
- Gorilla Tactics
- Huge Power
- Ice Scales
- Illusion
- Innards Out
- Intrepid Sword
- Libero
- Magnet Pull
- Moody
- Neutralizing Gas
- Parental Bond
- Protean
- Pure Power
- Shadow Tag
- Stakeout
- Water Bubble
- Wonder Guard
Resources:
/tour new [Gen 8] LC, Elimination
/tour rules !Obtainable, -Nonexistent, -Past, -Comatose + Sleep Talk, -Arena Trap, -Contrary, -Gorilla Tactics, -Huge Power, -Illusion, -Innards Out, -Intrepid Sword, -Libero, -Magnet Pull, -Moody, -Neutralizing Gas, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Stakeout, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, +Chlorophyll, -Bolt Beak, -Double Iron Bash, -Shell Smash, +Sticky Web, +Cherubi, +Corsola-Galar, +Cutiefly, +Drifloon, +Gastly, +Gothita, +Magby, +Rufflet, +Scraggy, +Swirlix, +Tangela, +Vulpix-Alola, +Woobat, +Zigzagoon-Base, -Type: Null, !Sleep Clause Mod, Sleep Moves Clause
/tour autostart 7
/tour autodq 4
/tour name [Gen 8] Balanced Hackmons Little Cup
/tour rules !Obtainable, -Nonexistent, -Past, -Comatose + Sleep Talk, -Arena Trap, -Contrary, -Gorilla Tactics, -Huge Power, -Illusion, -Innards Out, -Intrepid Sword, -Libero, -Magnet Pull, -Moody, -Neutralizing Gas, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Stakeout, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, +Chlorophyll, -Bolt Beak, -Double Iron Bash, -Shell Smash, +Sticky Web, +Cherubi, +Corsola-Galar, +Cutiefly, +Drifloon, +Gastly, +Gothita, +Magby, +Rufflet, +Scraggy, +Swirlix, +Tangela, +Vulpix-Alola, +Woobat, +Zigzagoon-Base, -Type: Null, !Sleep Clause Mod, Sleep Moves Clause
/tour autostart 7
/tour autodq 4
/tour name [Gen 8] Balanced Hackmons Little Cup
/challenge [Gen 8] LC @@@ !Obtainable, -Nonexistent, -Past, -Comatose + Sleep Talk, -Arena Trap, -Contrary, -Gorilla Tactics, -Huge Power, -Illusion, -Innards Out, -Intrepid Sword, -Libero, -Magnet Pull, -Moody, -Neutralizing Gas, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Stakeout, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, +Chlorophyll, -Bolt Beak, -Double Iron Bash, -Shell Smash, +Sticky Web, +Cherubi, +Corsola-Galar, +Cutiefly, +Drifloon, +Gastly, +Gothita, +Magby, +Rufflet, +Scraggy, +Swirlix, +Tangela, +Vulpix-Alola, +Woobat, +Zigzagoon-Base, -Type: Null, !Sleep Clause Mod, Sleep Moves Clause
- Speed Tier
Camomons Little Cup What is Camomons Little Cup?
Pokemon can change its typing to match their first 2 moves in a Little Cup format.
Abra @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Level: 5
EVs: 76 Def / 236 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Dazzling Gleam
- Psychic
- Substitute
Diglett @ Life Orb
Ability: Arena Trap
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Aerial Ace
- Sucker Punch
- Substitute
Dratini @ Life Orb
Ability: Shed Skin
Level: 5
EVs: 244 Atk / 36 SpA / 196 Spe
Naughty Nature
IVs: 0 HP
- Extreme Speed
- Double-Edge
- Fire Blast
- Brutal Swing
Council:
Roldski32 (Leader)Banlist:
Cherubi ( No Ability )- Corsola-Galar
- Cutiefly
- Drifloon
- Gastly
Gothita- Magby
- Rufflet
- Scraggy
- Scyther
- Sneasel
- Swirlix
- Tangela
- Vullaby
- Vulpix-Alola
Woobat- Zigzagoon-Base
- Baton Pass
- Sticky Web
- Chlorophyll
- Moody
Resources:
/tour new [Gen 8] LC, Elimination
/tour rules Camomons Mod
/tour autostart 7
/tour autodq 4
/tour name [Gen 8] Camomons Little Cup
/tour rules Camomons Mod
/tour autostart 7
/tour autodq 4
/tour name [Gen 8] Camomons Little Cup
/challenge [Gen 8] LC @@@ Camomons Mod
S Tier
Mienfoo [
/
] [
/
]
A+ Tier
Abra [
/
] [
/
]
Diglett [
/
]
Grookey [
/
] [
/
]
Porygon [
/
] [
/
][
/
]
A Tier
Koffing [
/
]
Mareanie [
/
]
Pawniard [
/
]
Staryu [
/
] [
] [
/
]
A- Tier
Carvanha [
/
]
Mudbray [
/
]
Ponyta [
/
] [
/
] [
/
]
Treecko [
/
]
Tyrunt [
/
] [
/
] [
/
] [
/
]
B+ Tier
Dwebble [
/
]
Farfetch'd-Galar [
/
]
Foongus [
/
]
Frillish [
/
]
Magnemite [
/
]
Natu [
/
]
B Tier
Archen [
/
]
Bunnelby [
/
] [
/
]
Charmander [
/
]
Dratini [
]
Onix [
/
] [
/
]
Trapinch [
/
] [
/
]
Vulpix [
/
]
B- Tier
Munchlax [
] [
/
]
Ponyta-Galar [
]
Slowpoke [
/
]
C Tier
Amaura [
/
]
Clauncher [
/
]
Cufant [
/
]
Corphish [
/
]
Meowth-Galar [
/
]
Minccino [
/
]
Omanyte [
/
]
Shellder [
/
]
Spritzee [
/
]
Wynaut [
/
] [
/
]
Mienfoo [
A+ Tier
Abra [
Diglett [
Grookey [
Porygon [
A Tier
Koffing [
Mareanie [
Pawniard [
Staryu [
A- Tier
Carvanha [
Mudbray [
Ponyta [
Treecko [
Tyrunt [
B+ Tier
Dwebble [
Farfetch'd-Galar [
Foongus [
Frillish [
Magnemite [
Natu [
B Tier
Archen [
Bunnelby [
Charmander [
Dratini [
Onix [
Trapinch [
Vulpix [
B- Tier
Munchlax [
Ponyta-Galar [
Slowpoke [
C Tier
Amaura [
Clauncher [
Cufant [
Corphish [
Meowth-Galar [
Minccino [
Omanyte [
Shellder [
Spritzee [
Wynaut [
- Type Compedium
STABmons Little Cup What is STABmons Little Cup?
Pokemon can learn any (non-restricted) move of their typing in a Little Cup Format
Mudbray @ Eviolite
Ability: Stamina
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 156 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Heavy Slam
- Shore Up
- Stealth Rock
Dreepy @ Life Orb
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Atk / 116 Def / 180 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Dragon Darts
- Shadow Sneak
- Substitute
Vulpix @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drought
Level: 5
EVs: 52 HP / 196 SpA / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Eruption
- Blue Flare
- Energy Ball
- Hypnosis
Banlist:
- Cherubi ( No Ability )
- Corsola-Galar
- Cutiefly
- Drifloon
- Gastly
- Gothita
- Magby
- Porygon
- Rufflet
- Scraggy
- Scyther
- Sneasel
- Swirlix
- Tangela
- Vullaby
- Vulpix-Alola
- Woobat
- Zigzagoon-Base
- Acupressure
- Belly Drum
- Bolt Beak
- Double Iron Bash
- Electrify
- Extreme Speed
- Fishious Rend
- Geomancy
- Glacial Lance
- Lovely Kiss
- Shell Smash
- Shift Gear
- Spore
- Thousand Arrows
- V-Create
- Wicked Blow
- Baton Pass
- Sticky Web
- Chlorophyll
- Moody
Resources:
- Double NR Screens HO/tour new [Gen 8] LC, Elimination
/tour rules STABmons Move Legality, *Acupressure, *Belly Drum, *Bolt Beak, *Double Iron Bash, *Electrify, *Extreme Speed, *Fishious Rend, *Geomancy, *Glacial Lance, *Lovely Kiss, *Shell Smash, *Shift Gear, *Spore, *Thousand Arrows, *V-create, *Wicked Blow, -Porygon
/tour autostart 7
/tour autodq 4
/tour name [Gen 8] STABmons Little Cup
/tour rules STABmons Move Legality, *Acupressure, *Belly Drum, *Bolt Beak, *Double Iron Bash, *Electrify, *Extreme Speed, *Fishious Rend, *Geomancy, *Glacial Lance, *Lovely Kiss, *Shell Smash, *Shift Gear, *Spore, *Thousand Arrows, *V-create, *Wicked Blow, -Porygon
/tour autostart 7
/tour autodq 4
/tour name [Gen 8] STABmons Little Cup
/challenge [Gen 8] LC @@@ STABmons Move Legality, *Acupressure, *Belly Drum, *Bolt Beak, *Double Iron Bash, *Electrify, *Extreme Speed, *Fishious Rend, *Geomancy, *Glacial Lance, *Lovely Kiss, *Shell Smash, *Shift Gear, *Spore, *Thousand Arrows, *V-create, *Wicked Blow, -Porygon
Mix and Mega Little Cup WHAT IS MIX AND MEGA LC?
In this metagame, players may only use Pokémon that have not yet evolved, are capable of evolution, and are obtainable at level 5 in-game. These Pokémon can use Mega Stones to gain the stats and abilities of those mega evolutions.
Council:
WMAR (Leader)AggrometaileTrainerGoldAltRuleset :
Smogon-wide clauses
Mega Stone Clause: A limit of one of each Mega Stone may be used.
Banlist:
- Cherubi ( No Ability )
- Archen
- Corsola-Galar
- Dratini
- Gastly
- Scyther
- Sneasel
- Tangela
- Beedrillite
- Blazikenite
- Gengarite
- Kangaskhanite
- Mawilite
- Medichamite
- Pidgeotite
- Baton Pass
- Electrify
- Chlorophyll
- Moody
Resources:
- Klink Hyper Offense/tour new mnm, elim,,,[Gen 8] Mix and Mega Little Cup
/tour rules Little Cup, -Chlorophyll, +Shadow Tag, *Archen, *Corsola-Galar, *Dratini, *Gastly, *Scyther, *Sneasel, *Tangela,
/tour autodq 10
/tour autostart 5
/tour rules Little Cup, -Chlorophyll, +Shadow Tag, *Archen, *Corsola-Galar, *Dratini, *Gastly, *Scyther, *Sneasel, *Tangela,
/tour autodq 10
/tour autostart 5
/challenge [Gen 8] Mix and Mega @@@ Little Cup, *Archen, *Dratini, *Corsola-Galar, *Gastly, *Scyther, *Sneasel, *Tangela, -Chlorophyll, +Shadow Tag
Astral Barrage remains unbanned in LC STABmons!
Reasoning: There's simply no broken abusers of this move in this mashup from what i've seen, its either they have average/middling offensive stats(Dreepy) or slow without a Choice Scarf(Frillish). Frillish and Dreepy were probably your best option for an Astral Barrage user, but they're not Gengar/Blacephalon level of brokenness for me to ban the move yet. In terms of resist, Pawniard and Vullaby are both good, and there's some instances of running both of them together in one team, due to different things they offer; Pawniard is a bulky offensive mon that acts as a Fly-resist, Abra check, and Porygon check into one slot + other things such as a Defog deterrent on Webs HO. Vullaby is... Vullaby, a number 1 Top Tier mon with a over 70%+ usage in LC.
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Stab N Mega Spotlight ends Monday, Feb 1. Vote for the next one in the voting channel of our discord.
This spotlight will run from Monday, February 1st to Monday, February 15th.
The eligible metas are:
Nat Dex AG Shared Power
CAAAmomons
Camo Stab Inheritance
Voting ends Monday, February 1, 23:59PM GMT+1
This spotlight will run from Monday, February 1st to Monday, February 15th.
The eligible metas are:
Nat Dex AG Shared Power
CAAAmomons
Camo Stab Inheritance
Voting ends Monday, February 1, 23:59PM GMT+1
After some thinking i decided to still post my reasoning on why i voted ban/dnb in the cases,STABmons Doubles announcement: Astral Barrage has been banned with Thundurus Incarnate NOT banned and Diamond Storm remain banned via council voting!
Votes:
Astral Barrage Thundurus-Incarnate Diamond Storm HeatEdgeSword Ban Ban Do not unban Roldski32 Ban Abstain Do not unban Ainzcrad Ban Do not ban Do not unban Result Ban No ban No unban
Like Glacial Lance, Astral Barrage can hit multiple foes with fantastic neutral coverage. However, Spectrier has proven to be a very notorious user of it, which takes advantage of its hitting multiple foes capability with its Grim Neigh that can be further bolstered by Nasty Plot if it gets the chance to set up through its ally's support, therefore requiring Dark- or Normal-type to withstand against it. For this reason, Astral Barrage got banned with a unanimous vote.
There was a discussion about whether or not Diamond Storm should be unbanned with its mechanic changes implemented where it only triggers the boost once it hits and not on each Pokemon, but after some testing, it was ultimately decided that Diamond Storm is still too strong since, at the end of the day, a defense boost is still a defense boost, therefore it remains banned.
As for Thunduurs-Incarnate, it is decided to take a look upon due to its ability to set up Tailwind with Prankster while having a good offensive stat and Oblivion Wing giving it extra longevity. However, Thundurus remains free by one abstain vote.
Now, feel free to discuss it, any feedback is appreciated.
This move in general is super super good in stabmons, being allowed to hit two of the opposing mons with a 90 base power move with STAB and just almost unpunishable is really to overpowered for this metagame. Some may argue that it doesnt have abusers, but it does, mons like spectrier,chandelure, gengar can all cause havoc and go ham.
During the testing games we played it didnt feel broken to me. Yeah it does lose its electric type weakness and has access to oblivion wing and also tbolt/electrowebs (if u wanna cheese for some reason). But it doesnt set out as many other tailwind setters. There also tw setters such as Tornadus-Incarnate which also has prankster, but doesnt have the electric type weakness and no electric move access such as Thundurus. Thundurus losing its electric weakness isnt super huge imo since there almost no electric pokemon who could break it apart.
110 Base Stab move on one opponent and gives u a +2 defensive boost with a 50% chance to get that. This move in general is really really good in doubles since u still do 82,5 base power without stab. Its just to good for stabmons since it still has good abusers like tyranitar and terrakion.
The new mashups spotlight is CAAAmomons! February 1st to February 15th.
Code can be found in the repository post but I'll paste it here as well:
Have fun with the spotlight and if you have any sets/teams you'd like to share or any opinions on tiering decisions, feel free to post in this thread!
Code can be found in the repository post but I'll paste it here as well:
Code:
/tour new [Gen 8] Camomons, Elimination
/tour rules !Obtainable Abilities, -Arena Trap, -Comatose, -Contrary, -Fluffy, -Fur Coat, -Gorilla Tactics, -Huge Power, -Ice Scales, -Illusion, -Imposter, -Innards Out, -Intrepid Sword, -Libero, -Moody, -Neutralizing Gas, -Parental Bond, -Power Construct, -Protean, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Simple, -Stakeout, -Speed Boost, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, -Archeops, -Regigigas, +Darmanitan-Galar, 2 Ability Clause
/tour autostart 10
/tour autodq 4
/tour name [Gen 8] CAAAmomons
I'm bored, so I'm posting Flipped Doubles sets.
Aight that's all I'm gonna do, I fear that if I find another amazing mon I'm gonna get smitten by Satan or something
Volcarona @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Rage Powder
- Tailwind
- U-turn
- Protect
Stats: 100/105/135/65/60/85
Volcarona has a surprising amount of support on its hands. It can use Rage Powder to redirect physical foes to attack it with its 100/135 defenses, 30% chance to burn with Flame Body, and recoil from Rocky Helmet. It can set up Tailwind pretty comfortably against any non-special attackers. It's funny how much of a role reversal Volcarona is for Flipped; from a setup sweeper to a complete support mon.
Amoonguss @ any item
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spore
- Protect
- Seed Bomb
- Stomping Tantrum
Stats: 30/80/85/70/85/114
Just like Volcarona, Amoonguss got a complete role reversal. What was once a bulky redirector is now a super fast sleep spreader. Other than that, not much to write home about; Amoonguss doesn't get a huge physical movepool, which is its higher attack.
Salamence @ any item
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Tailwind
- Roost
- Rock Slide
- Protect
Stats: 100/80/110/80/135/90
What was once a physical sweeper is now a fat Intimidate user, who can also set up Tailwind. Mence doesn't get a huge support movepool outside of Tailwind however, so it uses Roost to heal damage and Rock Slide to flinch foes slower than it.
Tornadus (M) @ any item
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Tailwind
- Taunt
- Knock Off / U-turn
- Hurricane / filler
Stats: 111/80/125/70/115/79
Priority Tailwind and Taunt is always something Tornadus really appreciated, but now it gets that along with being fat. Not much to write home about, but it seems like a good support mon.
Regieleki @ Leftovers
Ability: Transistor
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Electroweb
- Extreme Speed
- Thunder Cage
- Thunder Wave
Stats: 200/50/100/50/100/80
Fat bulky support with speed control, priority, trapping, and paralysis spreading. Huh.
Pheromosa @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Roost
- Foul Play
- Protect
Stats: 151/37/137/37/137/71
Oh
Torkoal @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Eruption
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Solar Beam
Stats: 20/70/85/140/85/70
Good thing this thing doesn't have more health lol
Tangrowth @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Solar Beam
- Sludge Bomb
- Focus Blast
- Protect
Stats: 50/50/110/125/100/100
Fast, bulky, hard-hitting Chlorophyll user. Would be better with more coverage.
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Rage Powder
- Tailwind
- U-turn
- Protect
Stats: 100/105/135/65/60/85
Volcarona has a surprising amount of support on its hands. It can use Rage Powder to redirect physical foes to attack it with its 100/135 defenses, 30% chance to burn with Flame Body, and recoil from Rocky Helmet. It can set up Tailwind pretty comfortably against any non-special attackers. It's funny how much of a role reversal Volcarona is for Flipped; from a setup sweeper to a complete support mon.
Amoonguss @ any item
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spore
- Protect
- Seed Bomb
- Stomping Tantrum
Stats: 30/80/85/70/85/114
Just like Volcarona, Amoonguss got a complete role reversal. What was once a bulky redirector is now a super fast sleep spreader. Other than that, not much to write home about; Amoonguss doesn't get a huge physical movepool, which is its higher attack.
Salamence @ any item
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Tailwind
- Roost
- Rock Slide
- Protect
Stats: 100/80/110/80/135/90
What was once a physical sweeper is now a fat Intimidate user, who can also set up Tailwind. Mence doesn't get a huge support movepool outside of Tailwind however, so it uses Roost to heal damage and Rock Slide to flinch foes slower than it.
Tornadus (M) @ any item
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Tailwind
- Taunt
- Knock Off / U-turn
- Hurricane / filler
Stats: 111/80/125/70/115/79
Priority Tailwind and Taunt is always something Tornadus really appreciated, but now it gets that along with being fat. Not much to write home about, but it seems like a good support mon.
Regieleki @ Leftovers
Ability: Transistor
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Electroweb
- Extreme Speed
- Thunder Cage
- Thunder Wave
Stats: 200/50/100/50/100/80
Fat bulky support with speed control, priority, trapping, and paralysis spreading. Huh.
Pheromosa @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Roost
- Foul Play
- Protect
Stats: 151/37/137/37/137/71
Oh
Torkoal @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Eruption
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Solar Beam
Stats: 20/70/85/140/85/70
Good thing this thing doesn't have more health lol
Tangrowth @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Solar Beam
- Sludge Bomb
- Focus Blast
- Protect
Stats: 50/50/110/125/100/100
Fast, bulky, hard-hitting Chlorophyll user. Would be better with more coverage.
Aight that's all I'm gonna do, I fear that if I find another amazing mon I'm gonna get smitten by Satan or something
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In general, it's usually would be better to have Sitrus Berry as the main healing item as most of the Pokemon that holds are have Leech Seed or bulk setup attackers. Although in Volcarona's case, I could suggest going for Heavy-Duty Boots to avoid being demolished by Stealth Rock.
I don't think Pheromosa would be good and the set feels very passive. Heck, I don't remember the last time where a Pokemon run Foul Play in Doubles.
Thunder Wave isn't used in Doubles right now, just rely on Electroweb.
Focus Blast is just not worth using in Doubles because missing is more costly in a more faster-paced format. Similarly, I also do not recommend going for Solar Beam on Tangrowth because that could potentially be screwed by opposing weather setter.
Lastly, I don't see any reason why not to give Tornadus Protect. Actually, why is Salamence only attack being Rock Slide?
Fair enough, I haven't played doubles in a while and kinda forgot how fast paced the meta is.
Pheromosa is pretty much forced to run a passive set because it has abysmal attack stats. Might not be good but oh god it's bulky
That's fair lol, you can replace twave with protect or something
Have you seen Tangrowth's special coverage, or lack thereof? It gets grass moves, Ancient Power, Sludge Bomb, Focus Blast, and...Shock Wave I guess?
You can run Protect over Hurricane; honestly didn't think of Protect in the moment lol. Also, Mence can run whatever over Rock Slide if you want, just thought of Rock Slide for flinching.
Usage stats for OMM Trios totally didn't take way too much time to send it
StAAAB https://pastebin.com/46rUDwpC
TSAAA: https://pastebin.com/x6hCHk5J
STAB'n'Mega: https://pastebin.com/gP3kitbb
S/o to The Number Man for letting me do the stats :)
are you happy now Gal?
StAAAB https://pastebin.com/46rUDwpC
TSAAA: https://pastebin.com/x6hCHk5J
STAB'n'Mega: https://pastebin.com/gP3kitbb
S/o to The Number Man for letting me do the stats :)
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The OMM Trios tour has recently concluded, you can find overall usage stats in the post above mine. This will give us some more insight into how to best balance them as well as develop resources, so now seems to be a good time to announce a couple of small changes to the way this project is going to be managed in the future.
I've been leading mashups for more than half a year now and while I think I've been doing a good job overall, focusing on the big picture often means you lose track of some details in the process. While STAAABmons has been flourishing in gen8 because it has had an active council as well as an active playerbase, some other mashups that were popular in gen7 (such as CAAAMO) haven't been as fortunate in that regard.
It's become clear to me that I can't give every mashup the treatment it deserves, since my attention is already split between leading this project, leading STAAABmons and being council for SNM as well as 3 OMs. This is why I would like to set up a council for as many popular and regularly played mashups as possible. This ensures that they are being handled by users who are invested in them, play them regularly and can focus their attention on them. Official mashups are obviously the priority in this case as they are the trademarks of this room, but if someone wants to officially lead an unofficial mashup that is also a valued contribution.
With that said, I have some announcements:
First, I will be stepping fown from SNM council with Just A Jew and PokaPK taking my place to join the existing council members, Andyboy Catalystic and Chazm. My place on the council was always supposed to be temporary, so I'd like to apologize for taking so long to actually do this.
Second, I am also very happy to announce that PociekMociek and Binacleisthebest have agreed to co-lead TS AAA. They have also both expressed an interest in the metagame, so I expect them to do well.
And finally Just A Jew and Karl Dude Guy are going to co-lead CAAAMO.
These users have all expressed an interest in their respective metagames, so I'm sure they will do a great job balancing them and creating resources.
If anyone else would like to join or form a council for any of the other mashups, message me here on smogon or on discord and we can talk about it.
I've been leading mashups for more than half a year now and while I think I've been doing a good job overall, focusing on the big picture often means you lose track of some details in the process. While STAAABmons has been flourishing in gen8 because it has had an active council as well as an active playerbase, some other mashups that were popular in gen7 (such as CAAAMO) haven't been as fortunate in that regard.
It's become clear to me that I can't give every mashup the treatment it deserves, since my attention is already split between leading this project, leading STAAABmons and being council for SNM as well as 3 OMs. This is why I would like to set up a council for as many popular and regularly played mashups as possible. This ensures that they are being handled by users who are invested in them, play them regularly and can focus their attention on them. Official mashups are obviously the priority in this case as they are the trademarks of this room, but if someone wants to officially lead an unofficial mashup that is also a valued contribution.
With that said, I have some announcements:
First, I will be stepping fown from SNM council with Just A Jew and PokaPK taking my place to join the existing council members, Andyboy Catalystic and Chazm. My place on the council was always supposed to be temporary, so I'd like to apologize for taking so long to actually do this.
Second, I am also very happy to announce that PociekMociek and Binacleisthebest have agreed to co-lead TS AAA. They have also both expressed an interest in the metagame, so I expect them to do well.
And finally Just A Jew and Karl Dude Guy are going to co-lead CAAAMO.
These users have all expressed an interest in their respective metagames, so I'm sure they will do a great job balancing them and creating resources.
If anyone else would like to join or form a council for any of the other mashups, message me here on smogon or on discord and we can talk about it.
Best Gal
once upon a time wont last forever
hi guys its been a bit
wanted to do some very minor reflections on some metagames ive been toying with lately this might be completely nonsense so fair warning
edit: it is somewhat hard to follow in places, as warned :P
i think some other metagames i wanted to go over very briefly are
camo ts - here's a fun team for you guys, it can probably be improved substantially but the basic idea is that claydol is sick, garticuno is really fun with this set and i wanted to capitalize on people wanting to fog on rose/claydol hazards but honestly it doesnt need the boost to go nuts; tyrantrum is the real star of the show though surprisingly, one ddance puts most anything in the tier into a scary position and its able to chomp through most balances with relative ease, you really have to be wary of status though as its worn down quickly but i have faith in trex
caaamo - blacephalon is insanity but i'm super bad at caaamo so my actual input here is beyond minimal. i have a team tho 1
xoxo thats my time
wanted to do some very minor reflections on some metagames ive been toying with lately this might be completely nonsense so fair warning
edit: it is somewhat hard to follow in places, as warned :P
so can we talk about how all over the place those usage stats are for omm trios? well firstly this is a nitpick but mons are grouped together only by their # of appearances, so the actual winrate of those mons is not ordered and so you see like
View attachment 314331
which is a little messy, having regi/rude on top then flame/vap and lastly noiv/mesp seems like standard procedure here- but like i said this is a nitpick and hardly affects the actual discussion, just makes data a little harder to parse at first
the build quality for the tour is all over the place as to be expected from an underexplored metagame being put in a competitive slot; obviously this could not be avoided and i'm not saying that i believe the builders did a poor job, but when nobody knows what the metagame really even is, you end up run over by some wack mon you've either not considered or not encountered
that said, since i've not seen literally every game i can only speak on things i actually have experience with, if i misrepresent a mon we'll just call it discussion sparking controversy and you can call me on it <3
this one is kind of a massive undertaking in and of itself but across the various usages this tour we saw steel electric multiple times as a team's main special tank, due to both doing fantastic vs the ever-looming specs noivern, but not to be underestimated are the physically offensive sets like ghostvally and fairyvally, which are both great and both shockingly absent from basically every game ive seen played. i think this usage stat is actually pretty low maybe just given how insane of a glue silv is, i would expect it to rise in the future, i think regenvest silv-electric is one of the best glue mons rn, and definitely the defining special pivot. shoutouts to silv-dragon as regenvester as well i like it :}
honestly this thing is substantially better than in last gen by sheer virtue of there being other good ass fairy types in the tier finally, like last gen your alternative fairy options were kind of strained esp when it came to actually having a mu vs the ever-present absolgross core, but as i want to touch on in a bit those mons were pretty underrepresented here especially
noivern is a weird mon to bring rn. with elecvally and steelvally being the premiere regenvesters and making it into literal fodder, it struggles to find matchups where it gets nasty. but it does have those matchups nonetheless and i expect it will remain one of the defining forces this generation as long as it doesnt unexpectedly rise a few tiers
has had an incredible time recently, since the poison heal body press set is, honestly, obscenely fat, you pretty much have to hit it specially since most physical mons provide it iron defense opportunities. regirock is the single biggest reason to pack a ghost like palo or something like cresselia that can actually profit off of its presence on the field but regirock is an extremely good pick rn
metagross has been in a weird spot this gen for a few reasons: 1) no pursuit means it doesnt have as many opportunities to make headway vs offensive teams like it used to; you simply aren't going to switch in meta and take their chipped celebi/whatever this gen and those opportunities really defined meta last gen (in part, i'll get to its partner in crime in a little bit,) and 2) metagross lacks z moves, so it struggles to find OHKOs vs the tier's defensive metagame now (think using hustle hone claws + electrium z tpunch vs skarm or a steelium z popping a healthy phealer last gen or something along those lines)
+cc,-pursuit is huge, but the big fundamental thing is that absol is good against a huge swathe of the metagame, including things that should traditionally check it just by virtue of its randomly good coverage, like on god what's a reliable absol counter that doesnt drop to iron tail/cc/play rough/fire blast randomly, and even then absol only really needs to get to +2 on a forced switch to completely erase its counterplay, and because 90% of the time the answer ppl pack is a fairy like aromatisse that just leads back to that absolgross combo from last gen (but this gen there are probably more attractive partners, if you ask me)
you have offensive measures vs absol like first impression goli and triage mons like buzz/croak/whatever else you bring to the table but obviously an offensive measure can't switch in vs absol, like this thing has deceptively good coverage for mons that actually deal w fight/dark coverage, so almost any mon you can think of that can take it on has to do so after a sack or maybe a wigglytuff pivot
legit though, absol is probably the biggest scary thing in the tier, and i think its constraining effect in the builder is actually unreal. the fact that it was brought to only one trios game and actually has a 0% winrate is mind boggling to me, and is imo another side effect of that unexplored tier factor
celebi was brought to two games and ngl, i didnt like dragonillis' esurge variant, i feel like terrain teams as a style struggle to make headway and are kinda mu fishy rn but obv he won so what do i know 
ive been enjoying this mon, its another one of those nice role compressors, i think its typing is obviously really shaky in current metagame though; in a world with no tinted and no prophet (praise be ), i would like it a lot more and also i think np sets have a lot of potential
on the other hand i'm really not a big fan of at all, its jack of all trades thing is neat but it struggles vs so many metagame trends rn, esp the prevalence of absol/zarude
was brought once, currently it rocks a fat 100% winrate as a result because lax is really damn good. yes it invites in a whole bunch of shit but did you know that lax can win games just by existing for long enough? its pretty dope
is a fucking tyrant and while i think tinted lens is the criminal factor in its viability it would still be fantastic without it. if the council doesnt ban tinted (they really should) then lilli is an obvious ban target.
, lilli's fatter but weaker cousin, is also problematic for the same reasons as lilligant: you qd up and become literally unstoppable, and its almost as effective here but honestly tinted is busted so go w lilli for as long as you can, and just start using this instead after 
i think i'm pretty much done here but i wanna touch on
because hot damn that mon is strong and nobody's using it at all, sub+np sheer force life orb or alternatively with dpulse on the set for silv-dragon or druddi or smth but sub is probably more valued here, it naturally outpaces noivern so you can usually scare it out and np or sub, its very risky but a chipped noivern wants to leave
on to what i think is banworthy within the tier: and the ability tinted lens are both fairly constricting factors within the tier, both during a match and in the builder, and should be banned.
View attachment 314331
which is a little messy, having regi/rude on top then flame/vap and lastly noiv/mesp seems like standard procedure here- but like i said this is a nitpick and hardly affects the actual discussion, just makes data a little harder to parse at first
the build quality for the tour is all over the place as to be expected from an underexplored metagame being put in a competitive slot; obviously this could not be avoided and i'm not saying that i believe the builders did a poor job, but when nobody knows what the metagame really even is, you end up run over by some wack mon you've either not considered or not encountered
that said, since i've not seen literally every game i can only speak on things i actually have experience with, if i misrepresent a mon we'll just call it discussion sparking controversy and you can call me on it <3
this one is kind of a massive undertaking in and of itself but across the various usages this tour we saw steel electric multiple times as a team's main special tank, due to both doing fantastic vs the ever-looming specs noivern, but not to be underestimated are the physically offensive sets like ghostvally and fairyvally, which are both great and both shockingly absent from basically every game ive seen played. i think this usage stat is actually pretty low maybe just given how insane of a glue silv is, i would expect it to rise in the future, i think regenvest silv-electric is one of the best glue mons rn, and definitely the defining special pivot. shoutouts to silv-dragon as regenvester as well i like it :} honestly this thing is substantially better than in last gen by sheer virtue of there being other good ass fairy types in the tier finally, like last gen your alternative fairy options were kind of strained esp when it came to actually having a mu vs the ever-present absolgross core, but as i want to touch on in a bit those mons were pretty underrepresented here especially noivern is a weird mon to bring rn. with elecvally and steelvally being the premiere regenvesters and making it into literal fodder, it struggles to find matchups where it gets nasty. but it does have those matchups nonetheless and i expect it will remain one of the defining forces this generation as long as it doesnt unexpectedly rise a few tiers has had an incredible time recently, since the poison heal body press set is, honestly, obscenely fat, you pretty much have to hit it specially since most physical mons provide it iron defense opportunities. regirock is the single biggest reason to pack a ghost like palo or something like cresselia that can actually profit off of its presence on the field but regirock is an extremely good pick rn metagross has been in a weird spot this gen for a few reasons: 1) no pursuit means it doesnt have as many opportunities to make headway vs offensive teams like it used to; you simply aren't going to switch in meta and take their chipped celebi/whatever this gen and those opportunities really defined meta last gen (in part, i'll get to its partner in crime in a little bit,) and 2) metagross lacks z moves, so it struggles to find OHKOs vs the tier's defensive metagame now (think using hustle hone claws + electrium z tpunch vs skarm or a steelium z popping a healthy phealer last gen or something along those lines) +cc,-pursuit is huge, but the big fundamental thing is that absol is good against a huge swathe of the metagame, including things that should traditionally check it just by virtue of its randomly good coverage, like on god what's a reliable absol counter that doesnt drop to iron tail/cc/play rough/fire blast randomly, and even then absol only really needs to get to +2 on a forced switch to completely erase its counterplay, and because 90% of the time the answer ppl pack is a fairy like aromatisse that just leads back to that absolgross combo from last gen (but this gen there are probably more attractive partners, if you ask me)you have offensive measures vs absol like first impression goli and triage mons like buzz/croak/whatever else you bring to the table but obviously an offensive measure can't switch in vs absol, like this thing has deceptively good coverage for mons that actually deal w fight/dark coverage, so almost any mon you can think of that can take it on has to do so after a sack or maybe a wigglytuff pivot
legit though, absol is probably the biggest scary thing in the tier, and i think its constraining effect in the builder is actually unreal. the fact that it was brought to only one trios game and actually has a 0% winrate is mind boggling to me, and is imo another side effect of that unexplored tier factor
celebi was brought to two games and ngl, i didnt like dragonillis' esurge variant, i feel like terrain teams as a style struggle to make headway and are kinda mu fishy rn but obv he won so what do i know ive been enjoying this mon, its another one of those nice role compressors, i think its typing is obviously really shaky in current metagame though; in a world with no tinted and no prophet (praise be ), i would like it a lot more and also i think np sets have a lot of potential on the other hand i'm really not a big fan of at all, its jack of all trades thing is neat but it struggles vs so many metagame trends rn, esp the prevalence of absol/zarude was brought once, currently it rocks a fat 100% winrate as a result because lax is really damn good. yes it invites in a whole bunch of shit but did you know that lax can win games just by existing for long enough? its pretty dope is a fucking tyrant and while i think tinted lens is the criminal factor in its viability it would still be fantastic without it. if the council doesnt ban tinted (they really should) then lilli is an obvious ban target., lilli's fatter but weaker cousin, is also problematic for the same reasons as lilligant: you qd up and become literally unstoppable, and its almost as effective here but honestly tinted is busted so go w lilli for as long as you can, and just start using this instead after i think i'm pretty much done here but i wanna touch on
because hot damn that mon is strong and nobody's using it at all, sub+np sheer force life orb or alternatively with dpulse on the set for silv-dragon or druddi or smth but sub is probably more valued here, it naturally outpaces noivern so you can usually scare it out and np or sub, its very risky but a chipped noivern wants to leaveon to what i think is banworthy within the tier:
and the ability tinted lens are both fairly constricting factors within the tier, both during a match and in the builder, and should be banned.i think some other metagames i wanted to go over very briefly are
camo ts - here's a fun team for you guys, it can probably be improved substantially but the basic idea is that claydol is sick, garticuno is really fun with this set and i wanted to capitalize on people wanting to fog on rose/claydol hazards but honestly it doesnt need the boost to go nuts; tyrantrum is the real star of the show though surprisingly, one ddance puts most anything in the tier into a scary position and its able to chomp through most balances with relative ease, you really have to be wary of status though as its worn down quickly but i have faith in trex
caaamo - blacephalon is insanity but i'm super bad at caaamo so my actual input here is beyond minimal. i have a team tho 1
xoxo thats my time
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During this period: STAAABMons Tours should be set with the command ?starttour gen8staaabtrial for the duration of the period
Once the trial period is over, the council will then examine whether the following things need to happen:
- Latios Ban
- Lando Ban or Dragon Ascent Restrict
- Oblivion Wing and Surging Strikes Restrict
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Okay after the trial, if the council ban Latios, what is the reason the keep Magearna in the metagame ? The main argument to keep that ancient broken pokeball was to keep things like weavile and latios in check, after the ban of astral and glacial, mons like Gengar or Weavile just disappear from the scene, if Latios also get a ban, magearna need a ban too.Following the OMM's Trio Tour, The STAAAB Council has elected to Run a 2 week trial Period for the following mons: Tapu Koko, Dragonite, Melmetal and Chandelure (Meaning they'll be allowed in the standard format). The council has elected to give these mons an opportunity in the meta to see how they affect the meta. After the 2 week trial period, the council will vote again on whether to permanently allow them in the tier or not. Feel free to post your thoughts on them in this thread after testing.STAAABMons Announcement
During this period: STAAABMons Tours should be set with the command ?starttour gen8staaabtrial for the duration of the period
Once the trial period is over, the council will then examine whether the following things need to happen:
That's all for staaab related announcements, and be on the lookout for more down the road. Have fun with the freed mons!
CAAAMOmons Spotlight ends Monday, Feb 15. Vote for the next one in the voting channel of our discord.
This spotlight will run from Monday, February 15th to Monday, March 1st.
The eligible metas are:
STAAAB RU
Nat Dex AG Shared Power
STAB Nature Swap
Voting ends Monday, February 15, 23:59PM GMT+1
This spotlight will run from Monday, February 15th to Monday, March 1st.
The eligible metas are:
STAAAB RU
Nat Dex AG Shared Power
STAB Nature Swap
Voting ends Monday, February 15, 23:59PM GMT+1
Adding to what Ax said, during this trial period we will be holding two STAAABmons trial tours per day, one at 6 PM GMT+1 and the other at 2 AM GMT+1 in order to get as much info as possible on the impact of these pokemon on the metagame. Think of it as sort of a reverse suspect, except there won't be any formal voting.Following the OMM's Trio Tour, The STAAAB Council has elected to Run a 2 week trial Period for the following mons: Tapu Koko, Dragonite, Melmetal and Chandelure (Meaning they'll be allowed in the standard format). The council has elected to give these mons an opportunity in the meta to see how they affect the meta. After the 2 week trial period, the council will vote again on whether to permanently allow them in the tier or not. Feel free to post your thoughts on them in this thread after testing.STAAABMons Announcement
During this period: STAAABMons Tours should be set with the command ?starttour gen8staaabtrial for the duration of the period
Once the trial period is over, the council will then examine whether the following things need to happen:
That's all for staaab related announcements, and be on the lookout for more down the road. Have fun with the freed mons!
This post may be updated with additional info over the course of this trial period.
I know that stAAAbmon isn’t even the OMotM but after a discussion in the OMM room, I figured that perhaps I’d be better writing everything here. Before I begin, I just wanna make something clear: everything I am going to mention is NOT a ban demand, they are merely some things that, from my point of view, may be too strong (but still manageable) and, for some, require restriction or should at least be on a watchlist. With that being said, let’s get started.
#1: Lati-twins
Before I began to play in staaab, i used to play a lot of AAA. There, naganadel just got banned because draco meteor dragon maw was clearly too strong. When I began staaab, the first huge threat that hit me was latios specs dragon maw with dragon energy. This monster of power is no joke. I don’t think that latios vanilla need introduction about his amazing stats and far from bad type. Coupled with psystrike, that Dragon Maw set can be VERY hard to stop. Of course, fairies are free switchins, but I just wanna show some calcs.
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Latios Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Corviknight: 314-369 (78.5 - 92.2%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Latios Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Snorlax: 372-438 (71.1 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Latios Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 349-412 (49.6 - 58.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 271-319 (89.1 - 104.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (remark that here, i consider that prankster pex will gastro acid, removing dmaw, but it still gets blasted)
Of course, as i said before the obvious counterplay is to slap a fairy type is latios’ face and stealth rock can help a lot. But, if we forget that latios can also click psystrike, there are two other lati sets that need to be mentioned. First one being the classic psy terrain expanding force+psystrike. Psychic terrain latios combines a wonderful priority immunity, a very powerful asset in staaab, a nice terrain control, a good speed tier and high damage potential. Of course, it struggles a lot against dark type, but this set was everywhere in December and for good reasons
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psystrike vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Snorlax in Psychic Terrain: 451-532 (86.2 - 101.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psystrike vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey in Psychic Terrain: 423-498 (60.1 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 128+ SpD Heatran in Psychic Terrain: 146-172 (37.8 - 44.5%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
The third and last set I want to talk about is the poison heal clangorous soul+stored power. This set, excellent on latios, but arguably better on latias, was to many regard one of the best set up sweeper in the meta. Poison heal already provides a fantastic passive recovery but the access to recover made it even harder to deal with. If you didn’t have haze or something like chansey unaware, you could very well be in deep trouble. After 1 clangorous soul, latios was only outspeedable by max speed regieleki and was now at +1 SpA with a 120bp stored power. Latios can even use the fact that he didn’t summoned psy terrain to fake a dragon maw set when it switches in, therefore forcing the opponent to switch if its current pokemon cannot live dragon energy. The strength of that set though wasn’t the raw set up sweep like any set up sweeper would, it was that it was incredibly difficult to kill a latias that heals itself and that has multiple boosts in both defenses. The lati-twins having access to aura sphere also made it hard for dark type to wall them. Counterplay did exist though. Prankster pex completely shuts it down with haze and gastro acid and it was the main counter. Foul play from dark types did surprising big damage since the laties would have their not-so-bad attack stat boosted with clangorous soul. The rare but effective topsy turvy would flat out force the switch.
In brief, the lati-twins’ strength didn’t come solely from one set alone but from all the options they had. Latios was a top tier in December staaabmon ladder for good reasons. They were not OP though. Dark and fairies usually could deal with them somewhat easily (if you guessed the right set) but I think they should probably stay on a watchlist.
#2: Inteleon
Oh boy, Inteleon was some scary stuff. We need to keep in mind that water immunities were extremely common in december staaabmon ladder and in tournaments. Part of the reason is that flip turn and surging strikes (I’ll talk about surging strike later in this post) were extremely common. But not only the physical water attackers had access to some nasty stuff. Inteleon proves it. The most common set by far was the same as kyogre: specs water spout with primordial sea. I don’t think I need to detail kyogre’s mighty power, so instead may I explain why I dare compare it to Inteleon. Inteleon trades 25 less SpA and a weavile tier bulk for 30 more speed, giving it a great speed tier of 120, an access to water shuriken for priority and steam eruption/weather ball for when it’s lower in health. You remember what I said about dragon maw latios? Well now imagine that but on a water type version with 5 less SpA and 10 more speed, except that now, you are immuned to fire, you have one of the 3 best climate control ability and instead of fairies being immuned, now it’s water absorb, storm drain, dry skin and desolated land (the latter being itself countered if you switch back in its face if it attempts a fire type attack).
252 SpA Choice Specs Inteleon Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Tapu Fini in Heavy Rain: 203-239 (59 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Inteleon Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex in Heavy Rain: 197-232 (64.8 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Inteleon Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey in Heavy Rain: 412-486 (57.7 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Inteleon Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 56 HP / 200 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Heavy Rain: 286-337 (43.6 - 51.4%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO
That is by extremely far the most common set. But alternatives exist. Here's a little story: in mid December, I was saying that water immunities were more or less mandatory for almost any fat, semi-stall and stall due to the plethora of strong water sweepers in the meta. Many told me I exagerated and it really wasn't that bad. When the magearna suspect test began, I had an idea: make a brand new account and see how high in the ladder I can reach running water spam. If I don't go that far, I either it's because I'm bad, or the team is bad, or the water immunes are indeed pehaps too common. If I reach high ladder, that means my claim is just false and the amount of water immunities is fine. Well, the results were unexpected. I reached #7 of the ladder as MSAS emile blue, but almost every match were about whether or not I correctly dealt with the opponent water immunity or chansey. Of course, desolate land match up were a nightmare since I ran a rain water spam.
My point is that in this said team, I didn't even run the standard sets. I ran more somewhat "gimmicky" sets. My Inteleon was specs mega launcher with origin pulse. Imagine the same Inteleon as before, but now, with rain support, it's stab power is now no longer dependant on it's hp and now has 16 pp. Sure, now it needed rain assistance and the move "only" had 85% accuracy, but it had now 556 effective power instead of a (variable) 506 for the water spout set. You remember how Inteleon water spout only had 8% chance to 2HKO chansey assuming the inteleon was full health? Well now it changes.
252 SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Inteleon Origin Pulse vs. 56 HP / 200 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Heavy Rain: 313-370 (47.7 - 56.4%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO
Of course, now I can also miss. But from my experience, the fact that you don’t have to worry as much about the hazard and that you have 8 more pp makes up for it. The prim sea is better in most teams, but on a rain team, mega launcher is just nuts. And about the kyogre comparison, here is kyogre’s damage on the same chansey:
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 56 HP / 200 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Rain: 325-384 (49.6 - 58.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
#3: Water Urshifu and Surging Strikes
Note:here, when I’m talking of Urshifu, I mean the rapid strike version.
This is the main purpose of this post. Urshifu’s offensive potential in vanilla is already something. A very nice stab combo, 130 attack, a nice speed tier of 97, great physical bulk and okay special bulk with 100/100/60. But enters staaabmon that allows it to run storm throw and either technician or sniper. Now, storm throw is a 135 bp fighting stab that ignores stat changes such as intimidate or dauntless shield. And Surging Strikes… 168.75 bp with the same traits as storm throw, except that now, it hits thrice. So not only you ignore stat changes, but also sturdy, focus sash and clones are no longer really a problem. Add a choice band and you put to shame Hoopa-Unbound choice band as as wall breaker.
252 Atk Choice Band Technician Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Surging Strikes (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight on a critical hit: 306-363 (76.5 - 90.7%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 213-252 (53.2 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Add a choice scarf and you outspeed everything but deoxys-speed and regieleki and you still hit harder than Mega-Heracross.
252 Atk Choice Band Technician Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Storm Throw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth on a critical hit: 205-243 (50.7 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Heracross-Mega Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 174-205 (43 - 50.7%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO
The Urshifu I used on my team was either scarf technician or band swift swim to surprise overconfident scarf users on the other team. In both case, surging strike damage under rain was just mighty. But where as for Inteleon or Latios, the sets where unique to them, surging strike is open for every physical water type attackers and to many regards, surging strike is a bigger problem for the metagame than water spout or dragon energy. Surging Strike makes sturdy and focus sash far less reliable as they would be in other metagames. Hyper Offense becomes much harder to run (not impossible by any mean, just much harder) since suicide leads are kinda screwed by Surging Strike. Barraskewda band primordial sea loves it and really is no joke. Gyarados brave bird surging strike MGLO is excellent at dealing with water type running rocky helmet. And here, I need to take about Tapu Fini. Fini regen rocky helmet is used primarily to counter surging strike. Sure it helps with other contact moves like U-turn, but let’s be honest, if surging strike was restricted, Fini would run good old poison heal the vast majority of the time. When a super top tier like Tapu Fini drops his standard set to counter one move and that alternative set become pretty much as popular as the standard one, maybe there is a problem.
So that’s it. I just wanted to share my opinion. I don’t want people to take me for what I’m not so I just wanna say: I’m no pro of stAAAbmons. I finished December month as #1 of the ladder but players like 23Gz and Motherlove are much better than me. I’m just a talented guy who tried an omm for the first time and was good at this particular one, but I’m no pro. This is just my opinion and I may very well be wrong and that’s fine. I just want to know, if I’m not right, WHY am I wrong. That’s it. Sincerely,
-Overwatched72, aka emile red
P.S: Here’s the pokepaste link for the water spam (the team is bad, but apparently it still works) https://pokepast.es/a07705be109860ba
#1: Lati-twins
Before I began to play in staaab, i used to play a lot of AAA. There, naganadel just got banned because draco meteor dragon maw was clearly too strong. When I began staaab, the first huge threat that hit me was latios specs dragon maw with dragon energy. This monster of power is no joke. I don’t think that latios vanilla need introduction about his amazing stats and far from bad type. Coupled with psystrike, that Dragon Maw set can be VERY hard to stop. Of course, fairies are free switchins, but I just wanna show some calcs.
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Latios Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Corviknight: 314-369 (78.5 - 92.2%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Latios Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Snorlax: 372-438 (71.1 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Latios Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 349-412 (49.6 - 58.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 271-319 (89.1 - 104.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (remark that here, i consider that prankster pex will gastro acid, removing dmaw, but it still gets blasted)
Of course, as i said before the obvious counterplay is to slap a fairy type is latios’ face and stealth rock can help a lot. But, if we forget that latios can also click psystrike, there are two other lati sets that need to be mentioned. First one being the classic psy terrain expanding force+psystrike. Psychic terrain latios combines a wonderful priority immunity, a very powerful asset in staaab, a nice terrain control, a good speed tier and high damage potential. Of course, it struggles a lot against dark type, but this set was everywhere in December and for good reasons
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psystrike vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Snorlax in Psychic Terrain: 451-532 (86.2 - 101.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psystrike vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey in Psychic Terrain: 423-498 (60.1 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 128+ SpD Heatran in Psychic Terrain: 146-172 (37.8 - 44.5%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
The third and last set I want to talk about is the poison heal clangorous soul+stored power. This set, excellent on latios, but arguably better on latias, was to many regard one of the best set up sweeper in the meta. Poison heal already provides a fantastic passive recovery but the access to recover made it even harder to deal with. If you didn’t have haze or something like chansey unaware, you could very well be in deep trouble. After 1 clangorous soul, latios was only outspeedable by max speed regieleki and was now at +1 SpA with a 120bp stored power. Latios can even use the fact that he didn’t summoned psy terrain to fake a dragon maw set when it switches in, therefore forcing the opponent to switch if its current pokemon cannot live dragon energy. The strength of that set though wasn’t the raw set up sweep like any set up sweeper would, it was that it was incredibly difficult to kill a latias that heals itself and that has multiple boosts in both defenses. The lati-twins having access to aura sphere also made it hard for dark type to wall them. Counterplay did exist though. Prankster pex completely shuts it down with haze and gastro acid and it was the main counter. Foul play from dark types did surprising big damage since the laties would have their not-so-bad attack stat boosted with clangorous soul. The rare but effective topsy turvy would flat out force the switch.
In brief, the lati-twins’ strength didn’t come solely from one set alone but from all the options they had. Latios was a top tier in December staaabmon ladder for good reasons. They were not OP though. Dark and fairies usually could deal with them somewhat easily (if you guessed the right set) but I think they should probably stay on a watchlist.
#2: Inteleon
Oh boy, Inteleon was some scary stuff. We need to keep in mind that water immunities were extremely common in december staaabmon ladder and in tournaments. Part of the reason is that flip turn and surging strikes (I’ll talk about surging strike later in this post) were extremely common. But not only the physical water attackers had access to some nasty stuff. Inteleon proves it. The most common set by far was the same as kyogre: specs water spout with primordial sea. I don’t think I need to detail kyogre’s mighty power, so instead may I explain why I dare compare it to Inteleon. Inteleon trades 25 less SpA and a weavile tier bulk for 30 more speed, giving it a great speed tier of 120, an access to water shuriken for priority and steam eruption/weather ball for when it’s lower in health. You remember what I said about dragon maw latios? Well now imagine that but on a water type version with 5 less SpA and 10 more speed, except that now, you are immuned to fire, you have one of the 3 best climate control ability and instead of fairies being immuned, now it’s water absorb, storm drain, dry skin and desolated land (the latter being itself countered if you switch back in its face if it attempts a fire type attack).
252 SpA Choice Specs Inteleon Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Tapu Fini in Heavy Rain: 203-239 (59 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Inteleon Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex in Heavy Rain: 197-232 (64.8 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Inteleon Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey in Heavy Rain: 412-486 (57.7 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Inteleon Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 56 HP / 200 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Heavy Rain: 286-337 (43.6 - 51.4%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO
That is by extremely far the most common set. But alternatives exist. Here's a little story: in mid December, I was saying that water immunities were more or less mandatory for almost any fat, semi-stall and stall due to the plethora of strong water sweepers in the meta. Many told me I exagerated and it really wasn't that bad. When the magearna suspect test began, I had an idea: make a brand new account and see how high in the ladder I can reach running water spam. If I don't go that far, I either it's because I'm bad, or the team is bad, or the water immunes are indeed pehaps too common. If I reach high ladder, that means my claim is just false and the amount of water immunities is fine. Well, the results were unexpected. I reached #7 of the ladder as MSAS emile blue, but almost every match were about whether or not I correctly dealt with the opponent water immunity or chansey. Of course, desolate land match up were a nightmare since I ran a rain water spam.
My point is that in this said team, I didn't even run the standard sets. I ran more somewhat "gimmicky" sets. My Inteleon was specs mega launcher with origin pulse. Imagine the same Inteleon as before, but now, with rain support, it's stab power is now no longer dependant on it's hp and now has 16 pp. Sure, now it needed rain assistance and the move "only" had 85% accuracy, but it had now 556 effective power instead of a (variable) 506 for the water spout set. You remember how Inteleon water spout only had 8% chance to 2HKO chansey assuming the inteleon was full health? Well now it changes.
252 SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Inteleon Origin Pulse vs. 56 HP / 200 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Heavy Rain: 313-370 (47.7 - 56.4%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO
Of course, now I can also miss. But from my experience, the fact that you don’t have to worry as much about the hazard and that you have 8 more pp makes up for it. The prim sea is better in most teams, but on a rain team, mega launcher is just nuts. And about the kyogre comparison, here is kyogre’s damage on the same chansey:
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 56 HP / 200 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Rain: 325-384 (49.6 - 58.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
#3: Water Urshifu and Surging Strikes
Note:here, when I’m talking of Urshifu, I mean the rapid strike version.
This is the main purpose of this post. Urshifu’s offensive potential in vanilla is already something. A very nice stab combo, 130 attack, a nice speed tier of 97, great physical bulk and okay special bulk with 100/100/60. But enters staaabmon that allows it to run storm throw and either technician or sniper. Now, storm throw is a 135 bp fighting stab that ignores stat changes such as intimidate or dauntless shield. And Surging Strikes… 168.75 bp with the same traits as storm throw, except that now, it hits thrice. So not only you ignore stat changes, but also sturdy, focus sash and clones are no longer really a problem. Add a choice band and you put to shame Hoopa-Unbound choice band as as wall breaker.
252 Atk Choice Band Technician Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Surging Strikes (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight on a critical hit: 306-363 (76.5 - 90.7%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 213-252 (53.2 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Add a choice scarf and you outspeed everything but deoxys-speed and regieleki and you still hit harder than Mega-Heracross.
252 Atk Choice Band Technician Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Storm Throw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth on a critical hit: 205-243 (50.7 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Heracross-Mega Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 174-205 (43 - 50.7%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO
The Urshifu I used on my team was either scarf technician or band swift swim to surprise overconfident scarf users on the other team. In both case, surging strike damage under rain was just mighty. But where as for Inteleon or Latios, the sets where unique to them, surging strike is open for every physical water type attackers and to many regards, surging strike is a bigger problem for the metagame than water spout or dragon energy. Surging Strike makes sturdy and focus sash far less reliable as they would be in other metagames. Hyper Offense becomes much harder to run (not impossible by any mean, just much harder) since suicide leads are kinda screwed by Surging Strike. Barraskewda band primordial sea loves it and really is no joke. Gyarados brave bird surging strike MGLO is excellent at dealing with water type running rocky helmet. And here, I need to take about Tapu Fini. Fini regen rocky helmet is used primarily to counter surging strike. Sure it helps with other contact moves like U-turn, but let’s be honest, if surging strike was restricted, Fini would run good old poison heal the vast majority of the time. When a super top tier like Tapu Fini drops his standard set to counter one move and that alternative set become pretty much as popular as the standard one, maybe there is a problem.
So that’s it. I just wanted to share my opinion. I don’t want people to take me for what I’m not so I just wanna say: I’m no pro of stAAAbmons. I finished December month as #1 of the ladder but players like 23Gz and Motherlove are much better than me. I’m just a talented guy who tried an omm for the first time and was good at this particular one, but I’m no pro. This is just my opinion and I may very well be wrong and that’s fine. I just want to know, if I’m not right, WHY am I wrong. That’s it. Sincerely,
-Overwatched72, aka emile red
P.S: Here’s the pokepaste link for the water spam (the team is bad, but apparently it still works) https://pokepast.es/a07705be109860ba
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FYI the superior chansey set is 0/252/252+ as shown by 1760 usage stats.
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Latios Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey: 256-303 (39.9 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
psystrike still hurts (even beats a somewhat chipped AV magearna) but regensey at least scouts move.
I consider Inteleon a gimmick set and Urshifu-R in of itself not great. The speed of skewda is too good to pass up (which you do mention).
If you use a water type to clean up after chansey/wab/dland dies then good on you
Regen (helmet) is also pretty good outside of surging strikes especially to complement Chansey (and stab gives Fini flip turn too!).
Still, either a water immune or chansfini/pex (for standard) are required to wall water sweepers. And yes council will be looking at both Latios and Surging after the trial period of unbans.
As the TSAAA Council, we have decided Absol, Bellossom and the ability Tinted Lens are too broken to keep in the meta. In consequence these 3 will be BANNED from TSAAA.
Thoughts of the council members:
The code is now PR'd into TNM's repository but just in case here it is:
And just to not leave it as a banpost here is the council's VR:
S TIER:
Silvally-Steel (Regenerator)
Silvally-Electric (Regenerator)
A+ TIER:
Zarude (Grassy Surge, Tough Claws, Desolate Land)
Noivern (Aerilate)
A TIER:
Kyurem (Sheer Force)
Braviary (Magic Guard, Guts)
Talonflame (Magic Guard)
Regirock (Poison Heal, Regenerator)
Golisopod (Regenerator)
Aromatisse (Triage,Dauntless Shield,Unaware)
Silvally-Ghost (Tough Claws)
Passimian (Tough Claws)
Sneasel (Technician, Adaptability, Magic Guard, Tough Claws, Skill Link)
Marowak (Sticky Hold, Adaptability)
A- TIER:
Guzzlord (Regenerator)
Metagross (Steelworker, Hustle)
Avalugg (Dauntless Shield, Magic Guard, Unaware)
Lilligant (Adaptability, Grassy Surge)
Lanturn (Regenerator)
Pangoro (Triage)
B+ TIER:
Lucario (Magic Guard, Adaptability)
Vaporeon (Poison Heal, Regenerator, Primordial Sea)
Gastrodon (Dauntless Shield,Poison Heal,Regenerator,Unaware,Sap Sipper, Magic Bounce)
Kadabra (Psychic Surge)
Celebi (Magic Bounce, Triage)
Xurkitree (Electric Surge, Transistor)
Flygon (Dauntless Shield)
Salazzle (Desolate Land, Adaptability)
Victini (Desolate Land)
Chandelure (Desolate Land, Adaptability)
Roserade (Adaptability, Desolate Land)
B TIER:
Escavalier (Regenerator, Tough Claws)
Wigglytuff (Dauntless Shield, Regenerator)
Decidueye (Grassy Surge , Magic Bounce)
Togekiss (Dauntless Shield)
Vileplume (Regenerator, Magic Bounce)
Palossand (Dauntless Shield, Thick Fat)
Jolteon (Electric Surge, Refrigerate)
Raikou (Electric Surge, Drizzle)
Toxicroak (Adaptability, No Guard, Merciless)
B- TIER:
Buzzwole (Dauntless Shield, Regenerator)
Stakataka (Steelworker, Guts)
Frosmoth (Magic Guard, Primordial Sea)
Blissey (Unaware)
Mantine (Volt Absorb)
Goodra (Regenerator)
C+ TIER:
Nihilego (Adaptability)
Glastrier (Galvanize,Adaptability)
Skarmory (Dauntless Shield)
C TIER:
Sylveon (Poison Heal, Unaware)
Drapion (Mold Breaker)
Seismitoad (Regenerator, Poison Heal)
Glalie (Refrigerate)
Zygarde-10% (Adaptability)
C- TIER:
Vespiquen (Magic Guard)
Weezing (Prankster)
Weezing-Galar (Prankster)
Thoughts of the council members:
Absol's impossible to check with dark + fight + mixed coverage + prio, and 2HKOs can 2HKO everything with one of its moves.
Bellossom needs extra attention to halt its sweep, and you can easily lose the game turn 1 w/o one of its few checks. in the case of a Sap Sipper pokemon or AV Guzzlord, the Bellossom check is often useless vs. any other threat. And in a meta where pokemon are able to have upwards of 170 attacking stats, pure bulk is rarely enough to function as a wall, meaning that resistances define most counterplay. TL easily breaks through would-be resists, making some pokemon unwallable in most cases.
Bellossom needs extra attention to halt its sweep, and you can easily lose the game turn 1 w/o one of its few checks. in the case of a Sap Sipper pokemon or AV Guzzlord, the Bellossom check is often useless vs. any other threat. And in a meta where pokemon are able to have upwards of 170 attacking stats, pure bulk is rarely enough to function as a wall, meaning that resistances define most counterplay. TL easily breaks through would-be resists, making some pokemon unwallable in most cases.
Absol has way too large of an offensive presence forcing First Impression from Regen!Golisopod on everything or it breaks through seemingly sturdy checks like Dauntless!Aromatisse, Regirock, Buzzwole or Skarmory with its immense slew of coverage options.
Bellossom thanks to Strength Sap has stupidly large survivability, thanks to QD has ways of breaking common spdef walls like Regen!Silvally-Electric and uses MBounce to abuse mons trying to toxic it to wittle it down or Tinted Lens to break more niche spdef walls like Regen!Guzzlord not even mentioning immediate support thanks to Sleep Powder.
Tinted Lens has proven itself unhealthy time and time again and it did so as well in TSAAA with mons such as Liligant, Kyurem, Metagross or Gallade able to break common defensive cores that would try to use their typing to their advantage
Bellossom thanks to Strength Sap has stupidly large survivability, thanks to QD has ways of breaking common spdef walls like Regen!Silvally-Electric and uses MBounce to abuse mons trying to toxic it to wittle it down or Tinted Lens to break more niche spdef walls like Regen!Guzzlord not even mentioning immediate support thanks to Sleep Powder.
Tinted Lens has proven itself unhealthy time and time again and it did so as well in TSAAA with mons such as Liligant, Kyurem, Metagross or Gallade able to break common defensive cores that would try to use their typing to their advantage
Absol is one in which i haven't got much experience with, however from community reception, it appears that banning it was the right choice. A lot of people have expressed their issues with it and how it offers so much power for such little cost. Abstain. Bellossom is problematic in a few ways. My biggest issue with it is the bulk it has + the access to strength sap. This allows it to tank any neutral physical hit and just heal it back up while reducing attackers effectiveness. Pair this with quiver dance and it is just too hard to take out. It's low risk, high reward. The only things that really stop bellossom are regenvest silvally, guzzlord, resist with good spdef, or a sap sipper mon. Pro-Ban. Tinted Lens. My god i am surprised this was allowed for this long. It is an ability that guarantees you to hit the entire meta neutrally. This turns 2hkos into ohkos once boosted. Tinted is balanced in regular play by the fact it is given to a few mons, but in TS, the bar for power is raised so high. This means that this can be heavily abused and can lead to what was seen in STAAAAB in which tinted was the go to for just tearing through common checks. Pro-Ban.
TBA
Code:
/tour rules !Obtainable Abilities, -Arena Trap, -Comatose, -Contrary, -Fluffy, -Fur Coat, -Gorilla Tactics, -Huge Power, -Ice Scales, -Illusion, -Imposter, -Innards Out, -Intrepid Sword, -Libero, -Moody, -Neutralizing Gas, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Simple, -Speed Boost, -Stakeout, -Tinted Lens, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, 2 Ability Clause, -Light Ball, -Absol, -Archeops, -Arctovish, -Bellossom, -Shedinja, -RegigigasS TIER:
Silvally-Steel (Regenerator) Silvally-Electric (Regenerator)A+ TIER:
Zarude (Grassy Surge, Tough Claws, Desolate Land) Noivern (Aerilate)A TIER:
Kyurem (Sheer Force) Braviary (Magic Guard, Guts) Talonflame (Magic Guard) Regirock (Poison Heal, Regenerator) Golisopod (Regenerator) Aromatisse (Triage,Dauntless Shield,Unaware) Silvally-Ghost (Tough Claws) Passimian (Tough Claws) Sneasel (Technician, Adaptability, Magic Guard, Tough Claws, Skill Link) Marowak (Sticky Hold, Adaptability)A- TIER:
Guzzlord (Regenerator) Metagross (Steelworker, Hustle) Avalugg (Dauntless Shield, Magic Guard, Unaware) Lilligant (Adaptability, Grassy Surge) Lanturn (Regenerator) Pangoro (Triage)B+ TIER:
Lucario (Magic Guard, Adaptability) Vaporeon (Poison Heal, Regenerator, Primordial Sea) Gastrodon (Dauntless Shield,Poison Heal,Regenerator,Unaware,Sap Sipper, Magic Bounce) Kadabra (Psychic Surge) Celebi (Magic Bounce, Triage) Xurkitree (Electric Surge, Transistor) Flygon (Dauntless Shield) Salazzle (Desolate Land, Adaptability) Victini (Desolate Land) Chandelure (Desolate Land, Adaptability) Roserade (Adaptability, Desolate Land)B TIER:
Escavalier (Regenerator, Tough Claws) Wigglytuff (Dauntless Shield, Regenerator) Decidueye (Grassy Surge , Magic Bounce) Togekiss (Dauntless Shield) Vileplume (Regenerator, Magic Bounce) Palossand (Dauntless Shield, Thick Fat) Jolteon (Electric Surge, Refrigerate) Raikou (Electric Surge, Drizzle) Toxicroak (Adaptability, No Guard, Merciless)B- TIER:
Buzzwole (Dauntless Shield, Regenerator) Stakataka (Steelworker, Guts) Frosmoth (Magic Guard, Primordial Sea) Blissey (Unaware) Mantine (Volt Absorb) Goodra (Regenerator)C+ TIER:
Nihilego (Adaptability) Glastrier (Galvanize,Adaptability) Skarmory (Dauntless Shield)C TIER:
Sylveon (Poison Heal, Unaware) Drapion (Mold Breaker) Seismitoad (Regenerator, Poison Heal) Glalie (Refrigerate) Zygarde-10% (Adaptability)C- TIER:
Vespiquen (Magic Guard) Weezing (Prankster) Weezing-Galar (Prankster)
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Best Gal
once upon a time wont last forever
FINALLY, they tanned binted lens :D
i have some ability additions to suggest as well as a few personal assertions about mon placements but this is a great start on the VR, i think silvallys are definitely the king rn
here are some tsaaa cores, a team, and observations ive been making lately (with staaab stuff at the bottom of the post, stay tuned if you're more into that)
-=-
caaamo stuff!
-=-
now for the staaab stuff!
thats all for now xoxo looking forward to seeing where the metas go from here, stab camo stuff will come soon ish but i only have one team thats in a satisfying place so i need more time
i have some ability additions to suggest as well as a few personal assertions about mon placements but this is a great start on the VR, i think silvallys are definitely the king rn
here are some tsaaa cores, a team, and observations ive been making lately (with staaab stuff at the bottom of the post, stay tuned if you're more into that)
I want to highlight a favorite core of mine for dealing with the exceptionally annoying tinted lens mons while supplementing the check to tinted (team at bottom pls keep reading):
The Immortal (Snorlax) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 236 HP / 16 Atk / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Careful Nature
- Facade
- Yawn
- Earthquake
- Protect
Togekiss @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Dauntless Shield
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Wish
- Protect
- Air Slash
EVs are probably very unoptimized in regards to snorlax but i originally made them to be able to handily 1v1 both lilligant and noivern, while scaring out things with yawn on the switch that could be used to gain poison heal turns. its not perfect but my god the amount of teams that fold to lax is incredible
togekiss is there to sponge hits from things like absol, while providing wish support in instances where lax and the rest of your team is just too chipped. it helps to have a regenerator mon to passively gain hp back while going between the three of these mons, i mostly use silvally steel on this team in order to alleviate pressure from rocks and steels on kiss, although you mostly just fucking lose to cb meta with tinted so LOL just hit it with broken triage ig
kyurem is a huge balance shredder and buzzwole is such an insane anti-offense tool, i think its still good even with absol/bello gone and should be prepped for more convincingly in the future
lastly celebi was for rocks and its a damn good mon at beating most other rockers, be careful of certain rockers like skarmory, and maybe consider swapping drain for psychic if the mu vs vern/flame/skarm becomes too troubling
here are some replays with the team:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8tiershift-1280515938 vs fabwooloous
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8tiershift-1281631272 vs Carbink Dioxide
definitely a favorite team of mine to use, but it'll have to change/go into retirement now that absol and tinted are gone :)
The Immortal (Snorlax) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 236 HP / 16 Atk / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Careful Nature
- Facade
- Yawn
- Earthquake
- Protect
Togekiss @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Dauntless Shield
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Wish
- Protect
- Air Slash
EVs are probably very unoptimized in regards to snorlax but i originally made them to be able to handily 1v1 both lilligant and noivern, while scaring out things with yawn on the switch that could be used to gain poison heal turns. its not perfect but my god the amount of teams that fold to lax is incredible
togekiss is there to sponge hits from things like absol, while providing wish support in instances where lax and the rest of your team is just too chipped. it helps to have a regenerator mon to passively gain hp back while going between the three of these mons, i mostly use silvally steel on this team in order to alleviate pressure from rocks and steels on kiss, although you mostly just fucking lose to cb meta with tinted so LOL just hit it with broken triage ig
kyurem is a huge balance shredder and buzzwole is such an insane anti-offense tool, i think its still good even with absol/bello gone and should be prepped for more convincingly in the future
lastly celebi was for rocks and its a damn good mon at beating most other rockers, be careful of certain rockers like skarmory, and maybe consider swapping drain for psychic if the mu vs vern/flame/skarm becomes too troubling
here are some replays with the team:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8tiershift-1280515938 vs fabwooloous
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8tiershift-1281631272 vs Carbink Dioxide
definitely a favorite team of mine to use, but it'll have to change/go into retirement now that absol and tinted are gone :)
so i'll start with the obsolete stuff: triagers and offensive/defensive checks i toyed with for absol
Toxicroak @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Poison Jab
Buzzwole @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Rock Slide
- Bulk Up
- Leech Life
so obviously with absol its biggest check is just the fact that it loses to triage leech life and drain punch since there are two mons that can resist both stabs and still fire these off. this isnt groundbreaking but i'll revisit buzzwole in a minute
Silvally-Fighting @ Fighting Memory
Ability: Dauntless Shield
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Defog
- U-turn
- Rest
- Multi-Attack
i thought it was pretty neat how silvally fighting and silvally fairy can both beat absol since their memory doesnt get knocked off, even if they're dauntless shield- silv fight is obviously super shoddy haha and so is silv fairy just because of a lack of recovery but when you're dealing with absol any defensive check is gonna be asking for too much for the whole package lol
ok so we know absol was basically impossible to check defensively, thats why it was banned- so why bring any of this up?
because over the course of the last few days of building and playing tsaaa, friends, i have fallen in love- in love with muscles
and then i saw some slander i just couldnt stand for...
well i'm here to tell you mister placuwuszek that buzzwole is actually quite solid and very worth building teams around(!)
basically, buzzwole's counterplay is fairly linear by nature - swap in a physdef mon that wont lose to it 1v1, like aromatisse, or swap in a mon that can stomach a triage hit and ohko it like noivern
the mons on the vr that defensively check buzzwole: golisopod (loses to rock slide), aromatisse (loses to pjab), togekiss (loses to rock slide, pjab), palossand, buzzwole itself (loses to dwb coverage), skarmory (but needs brave bird otherwise is setup fodder), sylveon (loses to pjab), vespiquen (loses to rock slide), and the weezings
technically weez and palo can be hit by shit buzz has but i wouldnt run it mostly, lariat maybe but i wouldnt run eq just because you get walled harder by flyings then
mons that can offensively check buzz are fucking everywhere, i wont be exhaustive but most of them cant get in safely vs buzz or risk being 2hko'd by leech life especially, the super safe ones are like togekiss, chandelure, salazzle, and kadabra (i'll take ppls word for it, since ive yet to see a kadabra this whole time) and just about none of them want to take a slide to the face but the real thing is that all of them are sensitive to racking up damage from hazards, which i find frequently drives them into leech range without having to read the slide anyways....this is to say, triage buzz is a great mon, dont knock it til you try it
---
vr additions and suggestions:
regenerator should be added to marowak, and maybe to passimian as well,
poison heal should be added to aromatisse,
sheer force should be added to salazzle,
flash fire and triage should be added to escavalier,
triage should be added to buzzwole,
primordial sea should probably be added to mantine but maybe not idk,
nihilego should get regenerator for sure,
vespiquen should have prankster (destiny bond!)
imo, regirock is an A+ mon, skarm is very underrated here, and mons like sneasel are overrated, but the meta is underexplored so i wont press too hard; after all, we dont even have half of the silvally forms on here, and ones like fight/fairy/ground/flying/dragon are undoubtedly viable and deserving of a vr spot haha
Toxicroak @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Poison Jab
Buzzwole @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Rock Slide
- Bulk Up
- Leech Life
so obviously with absol its biggest check is just the fact that it loses to triage leech life and drain punch since there are two mons that can resist both stabs and still fire these off. this isnt groundbreaking but i'll revisit buzzwole in a minute
Silvally-Fighting @ Fighting Memory
Ability: Dauntless Shield
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Defog
- U-turn
- Rest
- Multi-Attack
i thought it was pretty neat how silvally fighting and silvally fairy can both beat absol since their memory doesnt get knocked off, even if they're dauntless shield- silv fight is obviously super shoddy haha and so is silv fairy just because of a lack of recovery but when you're dealing with absol any defensive check is gonna be asking for too much for the whole package lol
ok so we know absol was basically impossible to check defensively, thats why it was banned- so why bring any of this up?
because over the course of the last few days of building and playing tsaaa, friends, i have fallen in love- in love with muscles
and then i saw some slander i just couldnt stand for...
well i'm here to tell you mister placuwuszek that buzzwole is actually quite solid and very worth building teams around(!)
basically, buzzwole's counterplay is fairly linear by nature - swap in a physdef mon that wont lose to it 1v1, like aromatisse, or swap in a mon that can stomach a triage hit and ohko it like noivern
the mons on the vr that defensively check buzzwole: golisopod (loses to rock slide), aromatisse (loses to pjab), togekiss (loses to rock slide, pjab), palossand, buzzwole itself (loses to dwb coverage), skarmory (but needs brave bird otherwise is setup fodder), sylveon (loses to pjab), vespiquen (loses to rock slide), and the weezings
technically weez and palo can be hit by shit buzz has but i wouldnt run it mostly, lariat maybe but i wouldnt run eq just because you get walled harder by flyings then
mons that can offensively check buzz are fucking everywhere, i wont be exhaustive but most of them cant get in safely vs buzz or risk being 2hko'd by leech life especially, the super safe ones are like togekiss, chandelure, salazzle, and kadabra (i'll take ppls word for it, since ive yet to see a kadabra this whole time) and just about none of them want to take a slide to the face but the real thing is that all of them are sensitive to racking up damage from hazards, which i find frequently drives them into leech range without having to read the slide anyways....this is to say, triage buzz is a great mon, dont knock it til you try it
---
vr additions and suggestions:
regenerator should be added to marowak, and maybe to passimian as well,
poison heal should be added to aromatisse,
sheer force should be added to salazzle,
flash fire and triage should be added to escavalier,
triage should be added to buzzwole,
primordial sea should probably be added to mantine but maybe not idk,
nihilego should get regenerator for sure,
vespiquen should have prankster (destiny bond!)
imo, regirock is an A+ mon, skarm is very underrated here, and mons like sneasel are overrated, but the meta is underexplored so i wont press too hard; after all, we dont even have half of the silvally forms on here, and ones like fight/fairy/ground/flying/dragon are undoubtedly viable and deserving of a vr spot haha
-=-
caaamo stuff!
there's no good way of saying this but the gimmicks never cease with me, the idea with these is that you're able to switch in on a slower mon and guaranteed force them out after a turn, there are ways around this and its not invincible but its surprisingly consistent as a strategy; ive only used the gengar in a match so far but its possible with a surprising amt of mons and several of them have actual niches
basically i came up with the durant first and sent it to karl dude guy who suggested i use gengar instead, as it is more capable of pressuring threats.i think durant is still fine; entrainment allows it to hit multiple things with the normalization before leaving, which is nice! its not better than any of the other mons, most likely. zam can normalize something (best speed tier of any of the skill swap mons legal aside from ribom, which lacks a ghost move) and then nasty plot on their switch out. one of the real beauties of this set is that they cannot pivot out on it aside from teleport, which affords you the setup turn. azelf is able to get a free pivot off on most mons but it means you have to be selective about targets, they might slow pivot on you if you switch to a diff mon prematurely
anyways this is all some rather abstract stuff so here's an actual team with the gengar set, i will edit in some replays for it but i apparently havent saved any :P
basically i came up with the durant first and sent it to karl dude guy who suggested i use gengar instead, as it is more capable of pressuring threats.i think durant is still fine; entrainment allows it to hit multiple things with the normalization before leaving, which is nice! its not better than any of the other mons, most likely. zam can normalize something (best speed tier of any of the skill swap mons legal aside from ribom, which lacks a ghost move) and then nasty plot on their switch out. one of the real beauties of this set is that they cannot pivot out on it aside from teleport, which affords you the setup turn. azelf is able to get a free pivot off on most mons but it means you have to be selective about targets, they might slow pivot on you if you switch to a diff mon prematurely
anyways this is all some rather abstract stuff so here's an actual team with the gengar set, i will edit in some replays for it but i apparently havent saved any :P
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now for the staaab stuff!
Aegislash @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Anchor Shot
- Metal Burst
- Shadow Sneak
Melmetal @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Metal Burst
- Double Iron Bash
- Earthquake
- Bullet Punch
regenvest metal burst is really fun but it only works on people, like, once or twice. its really annoying dont get me wrong but you get set up on a lot and so it can only really clinch things for you vs any given player a couple times before they cotton onto the mindgames you're playing
i have a team featuring the melmetal here but the melm set definitely needs a bit of EV love here because i think it only needs enough attack to threaten out the steels of the tier and especially pex, you're not worried about levimage at all which is an enormous plus but yeah, fun stuff, not super great, azelf is there for speed control and to be a pivot which latios, the stronger + better typed mon for the slot, cannot do without teleport which is certainly...rough. zarude makes sure you can actually use melm and dnite priority if need be, + zarude is solid af and provides passive reward for melmetal tho maybe that makes running a diff ground move worth...not an optimized team since i'm not super into staaab these days but i digress
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i have one more team, this one being for non-trial staaab, features the most demonic gengar set hahaha
Gengar @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Curse
- Encore
- Night Shade
- Toxic Spikes
ok so regengar isnt the best mon ever. you have to bluff pretty hard to get it to work but basically you're able to pressure all kinds of silly switches with curse/encore and toxic spikes helps you benefit from them. you lose so hard vs magic bounce tho hahaha, your best mu is vs stuff like body press corviknight, but you're able to shock a lot of people just from how weird it is
i must credit tnm for giving me the idea with his ancient regen tspikes toxtricity set from pre-dlc, thats what inspired the set, again i have no replays for this but i promise it actually does stuff and i will edit some in later
btw normalize gengar probably works amazingly in this meta too
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Anchor Shot
- Metal Burst
- Shadow Sneak
Melmetal @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Metal Burst
- Double Iron Bash
- Earthquake
- Bullet Punch
regenvest metal burst is really fun but it only works on people, like, once or twice. its really annoying dont get me wrong but you get set up on a lot and so it can only really clinch things for you vs any given player a couple times before they cotton onto the mindgames you're playing
i have a team featuring the melmetal here but the melm set definitely needs a bit of EV love here because i think it only needs enough attack to threaten out the steels of the tier and especially pex, you're not worried about levimage at all which is an enormous plus but yeah, fun stuff, not super great, azelf is there for speed control and to be a pivot which latios, the stronger + better typed mon for the slot, cannot do without teleport which is certainly...rough. zarude makes sure you can actually use melm and dnite priority if need be, + zarude is solid af and provides passive reward for melmetal tho maybe that makes running a diff ground move worth...not an optimized team since i'm not super into staaab these days but i digress
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i have one more team, this one being for non-trial staaab, features the most demonic gengar set hahaha
Gengar @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Curse
- Encore
- Night Shade
- Toxic Spikes
ok so regengar isnt the best mon ever. you have to bluff pretty hard to get it to work but basically you're able to pressure all kinds of silly switches with curse/encore and toxic spikes helps you benefit from them. you lose so hard vs magic bounce tho hahaha, your best mu is vs stuff like body press corviknight, but you're able to shock a lot of people just from how weird it is
i must credit tnm for giving me the idea with his ancient regen tspikes toxtricity set from pre-dlc, thats what inspired the set, again i have no replays for this but i promise it actually does stuff and i will edit some in later
btw normalize gengar probably works amazingly in this meta too
thats all for now xoxo looking forward to seeing where the metas go from here, stab camo stuff will come soon ish but i only have one team thats in a satisfying place so i need more time