OM Mashup Megathread

I'm gonna share the STAAABmons team I've had the most success with in the post home meta.

parker cannon (Toxtricity) (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic Spikes
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Venoshock

flash fire (Ferrothorn) @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Horn Leech
- Strength Sap
- Sunsteel Strike
- Swords Dance

:coom: (Kommo-o) (M) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 240 Def / 24 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Protect

activated almonds (Mandibuzz) (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 248 HP / 136 Def / 124 SpD
Bold Nature
- Knock Off
- Roost
- Defog
- Toxic

simpod (Golisopod) (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 56 Def / 204 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- First Impression
- Liquidation

badpult (Dragapult) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Dragon Darts
- Spectral Thief
- Shadow Sneak

This team is built around the hazard core of Tspikes Regen Toxtricity and Rocks Pheal Kommo. The idea here is, Kommo keeps rocks up vs most common hazard removers (Birds, Normals, Umbreon) losing only to Fairies and can brute force through physical psychics due to ID. Tox easily comes in on most fairies and gets tspikes up, helping put pressure on mons that can prevent Ferro/Kommo/Pult from sweeping. Tox also beats most common defoggers (VA birds lose to Kommo) which means those tspikes stay up AND it pressures the other common Poison type (Pex) out. Regenerator means it easily shrugs off chip from the defensive mons that it switches into, staying healthy over the course of the game.
It's sashed so you can stay in on a breaker t1 to get crucial chip on it while regening the hp back later, giving you a free turn of important momentum. Kommo is evd to outspeed Band Darm after a Vcreate, with a good chance to ohko using Body Press (240+ Def Kommo-o Body Press vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Darmanitan: 337-397 (96 - 113.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO).

Mandibuzz shores up the Psychic/Ghost weakness and can also check Melmetal decently well due to Dib giving it two stamina procs. Golisopod can pivot decently well into Keldeo (it's evd to avoid the 2hko from tinted specs secret sword, the rest is dumped into SPDef), as well as serve as a slow pivot to create a voltturn chain vs fatter teams with Toxtricity, letting it heal back up to full if it took too much chip. Ferrothorn is here because I needed a Steel type, it's Triage because that's the best offensive answer to Keldeo and with tspikes support it acts as a legitimate wincon vs fatter teams. Last, like 80% of my teams there's scarf Dragapult to serve as an emergency revenge killer vs setup sweepers as well as an amazing lategame cleaner.

In conclusion, Kommo + Toxtricity is really good rn.

Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8customgame-1069002956
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1069134478
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1067587292
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1067383889
 
Alright, I wasn't going to do this, but The Number Man has basically been begging people to post, and me in particular to complain about Keldeo in STAAABmons, but since my thoughts on Keldeo have been summed up by what others have said, I'm just gonna talk about the thing I have an issue with in Drampa's post/

:ss/terrakion:
Terrakion is now BANNED from STABmons + Almost Any Ability
Terrakion's incredible dual STABs, high Attack state, and good Speed tier, combined with the powerful new moves it learns, including but not limited to Head Smash, High Jump Kick, and priority in Accelerock and Mach Punch, push it over the edge as a broken offensive Pokemon capable of filling many roles.
The few counters to Terrakion tend to be passive and easy to exploit. Pokemon such as Doublade, which is pretty much the definitive hard stop to any Terrakion not running Earthquake in most metagame, cannot reliably switch in to Scrappy Terrakion. Magic Guard sets make chip from various sources difficult to wear it down with, as well as allowing it to spam 150 and 130 BP STABs for free. Dauntless Shield Hippowdon stands out as the best and most reliable single counter to Terrakion, with most others losing to at least one of its used sets.

Terrakion's priority means that revenge killing it, especially Swords Dance sets, is extremely difficult as well, because it can simply delete faster Pokemon that don't resist Accelerock (or sometimes Mach Punch) or have much more bulk than the average Pokemon that outspeeds base 108.

The community has overwhelmingly indicated that it wishes for Terrakion to be banned. Goodbye Porthos.

In other news...
:darmanitan: V-Create is one of the next things we're going to be looking at! The main question, as The Number Man pointed out, is whether Darmanitan or V-Create is the main problem.

V-Create:
There are other Fire-type moves around. None of them are nearly as strong as V-Create, but they also don't have nearly as nasty a drawback. For simplicity, I'm sticking with Fire-type physical moves here, as special Fire types haven't proven to be an issue and abusers can't switch types easily here :3

As I look at these moves I'm looking to see if they would replace V-Create to make an overall broken package IF we banned V-Create. I will do the same with the mons: looking to see if we ban Darmanitan see if there would be other broken Fire types.

Pyro Ball: This is overall the best of the power moves post V-Create.
252 Atk Choice Band Darmanitan Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dauntless Shield Hippowdon in Harsh Sunshine: 199-235 (47.3 - 55.9%) -- 80.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Darmanitan Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Kommo-o in Harsh Sunshine: 192-227 (54.2 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252+ Atk Choice Band Darmanitan Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dauntless Shield Jellicent in Harsh Sunshine: 154-182 (38.1 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Darmanitan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 204-240 (67.1 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery (this matchup isn't effected)
252 Atk Choice Band Darmanitan Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dauntless Shield Avalugg in Harsh Sunshine: 288-342 (73 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Darmanitan Pyro Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados in Harsh Sunshine: 311-366 (93.9 - 110.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (Rock Slide OHKOs)
Flare Blitz: Flare Blitz is mostly good on Magic Guard mons, which Fire types tend to be good at. It's most the same as Pyro Ball, just slightly more accurate and with recoil. It does significantly less damage with Magic Guard and LO but is still a good move.
Fire Lash: A good stallbreaking move. I'm not sure what would prefer to run it though.
Heat Crash: Honestly I don't know if anything can effectively run this, but I thought I'd mention it for completeness' sake. In theory it's a good move on the right abuser. That abuser has to be physical, Fire type, and very heavy. And actually good :blobshrug:


Darmanitan::darmanitan:
Darmanitan is by far the strongest Fire type, just in terms of raw damage output (Flareon sucks). However it's not the only viable one now, with both Cinderace and Centiskorch having valuable roles of their own, and Cinderace arguably being just as good or even better than Darmanitan just by nature of being faster than the majority of the metagame.

Cinderace:
The rabbit outpaces much more than
I'll edit these in later :(


I'm not trying to come to any conclusions, just trying to get the ball rolling. Darmanitan still nails a lot of KOs with Pyro Ball, and doesn't lower its speed to do so. Cinderace KOs a ton with V-Create and does so at a higher speed tier than Darmanitan. I see legitimate arguments for both being the issue, and I haven't even touched on arguments for them not being an issue at all.

The last thing I'll say here is that the abilities I have listed are not comprehensive. You can effectively run Mold Breaker, Tough Claws, Magic Guard, and many other abilities with V-Create abusers. Please don't limit the discussion to Desolate Land V-Create, I was simply using it for power calcs.

:keldeo: Keldeo
Keldeo was recently banned from Almost Any Ability for its ability to nuke walls, particularly with its Tinted Lens sets, practically requiring a double immunity. In STAAAB this problem is magnified by its access to Water Spout and Water Shuriken / Vacuum Wave. However this is a different metagame and we won't be banning it just because AAA did.

There is no alternative to a Keldeo ban (no Water Spout isn't the problem), so the only question I have is: is it problematic enough to ban?

Barring an unforeseen and overwhelming wave of public opinion I plan to initiate a suspect soon (date TBD). Keldeo will be on the ballot, as will some option regarding V-Create / V-Create abusers. Please use the time until the suspect is fully announced to discuss how you'd like to see the Fire-type vote take shape.
Alright, my thoughts on this "debate" on whether Darmanitan or V-create is the broken thing is very simple: its so obviously V-create to anyone who's played the meta. Like V-create was causing problems before Home came out and gave us Darmanitan and Incineroar (which has actually been more successful than Darmanitan, since it has a much harder movepool to wall, and can also setup on those that do wall it) with Cinderace. Meanwhile, Darmanitan has seen hardly any success, especially since it has a hard time breaking past Flash Fire Togekiss without running Stone Miss.

Anyway, to end on a non-ranty note, I'm just gonna include a team that I've seen a decent amount of success with for STAB 'n' Mega.

:lunala: :rotom-heat: :umbreon: :corviknight: :shedinja: :hippowdon:

This team originally was built to try to abuse two of the new additions, Lunala and Kyurem-W. Unfortunately, Kyurem-W sucks, so it got ditched later on. Lunala, on the other hand, has a strong argument for S rank (we'll get that VR out eventually...), and can easily crush unprepared teams with minimal effort. Banettite Rotom-Heat followed up as an amazing answer to Arcanine and Ditto replacement that doesn't just lose momentum. Basically, Prankster Destiny Bond just stops your opponent from just attacking you, whilst Spectral Thief let's you yoink their boosts if they decide to get all passive on you. I then slapped on Mandibuzz, but I eventually just replaced it with Umbreon since Umbreon is far, far less exploitable. Corviknight was basically a filler Pokemon that I slapped on because its Corviknight. Shedinja was mostly just slapped on because I wanted to see if it put in any work in the meta, since no one had really tried it, but my god has it been effective! It feels like no team prepares for Focus Sash Shedinja, so its almost always putting in work. Lastly, Hippowdon is there to give a nice little physical wall for Terrakion/Zeraora/Darmanitan.
 
I'd like to thank Noc for posting as it means I can do this in a separate post. Presenting my unofficial (meaning it's mostly my opinion) STAAAB VR, adjusted with input from Icemaster, Nailah and Noc as well as general comments from users who were on yesterday when I posted the initial version:

Note: Most common abilities are in bold. When no abilities are bolded, there either isnt a most common ability or there isnt enough data yet.
Note 2: I will be editing this to account for metagame shifts after bans and the forum tour.
BANNED
:TERRAKION: Terrakion (Magic Guard, Adaptability, Scrappy, Tinted Lens)
:Keldeo: Keldeo (Tinted Lens, Sheer Force, Poison Heal, Mold Breaker, Adaptability, Regenerator, Primordial Sea, Swift Swim)

S- Rank
:Dragapult: Dragapult (Adaptability, Dazzling, Poison Heal, Regenerator)
:Chandelure: Chandelure (Desolate Land, Turboblaze, Magic Guard, Tinted Lens, Chlorophyll)
:Zeraora: Zeraora (Tough Claws, Sheer Force, Electric Surge, Teravolt, Dazzling)

A+ rank
:Kommo-o: Kommo (Poison Heal, Regenerator, Stamina, Unburden, Triage)
:Noivern: Noivern (Aerilate)
:Ferrothorn: Ferrothorn (Triage, Flash Fire)
:Mandibuzz: Mandibuzz (Stamina, Unaware, Magic Bounce, Dauntless Shield, Intimidate, Soundproof)
:Togekiss: Togekiss (Water Absorb, Flash Fire, Intimidate, Triage, Tinted Lens)
:Tyranitar: Tyranitar (Magic Guard, Regenerator, Hustle)


A rank
:Doublade: Doublade (Regenerator, Flash Fire, Levitate, Unaware)
:Incineroar: Incineroar (Tough Claws, Desolate Land, Regenerator, Prankster)
:Jirachi: Jirachi (Regenerator, Tinted Lens, Magic Bounce)
:Decidueye: Decidueye (Triage)
:Hydreigon: Hydreigon (Poison Heal, Sheer Force, Unburden, Mold Breaker, Mega Launcher)
:Rotom-wash: Rotom W (Regenerator, Sheer Force, Drizzle, Levitate)
:Melmetal: Melmetal (Tinted Lens, Steelworker, Regenerator, Sheer Force, Serene Grace, Steam Engine)
:Corviknight: Corviknight (Stamina, Flash Fire, Volt Absorb, Unaware, Magic Bounce, Dauntless Shield, Intimidate)
:Gyarados: Gyarados (Magic Guard, Primordial Sea, Motor Drive)
:Celebi: Celebi (Triage, Magic Bounce)


A- rank
:Mew: Mew (Mold Breaker, Magic Bounce, Regenerator, Prankster)
:Type Null: Type Null (Stamina, Magic Bounce, Regenerator, Unaware, Dauntless Shield, Intimidate, Flash Fire, Soundproof)
:Rotom-Heat: Rotom H (Magnet Pull, Sheer Force, Desolate Land, No Guard)
:Umbreon: Umbreon (Stamina, Unaware, Magic Bounce, Dauntless Shield, Intimidate, Mummy, Prankster)
:Toxtricity: Toxtricity (Regenerator, Galvanize, Refrigerate, Merciless)
:Snorlax: Snorlax (Poison Heal, Unaware, Magic Bounce)
:Cinderace: Cinderace (Desolate Land, Turboblaze, Magic Guard, Tinted Lens, Chlorophyll, Drought)
:Shuckle: Shuckle (Mold Breaker, Prankster)
:Excadrill: Excadrill (Tinted Lens, Adaptability, Regenerator)
:Sylveon: Sylveon (Unaware, Pixilate, Prankster, Magic Bounce, Intimidate, Poison Heal)
:heliolisk: Heliolisk (Primordial Sea, Drizzle, Adaptability, Tinted Lens)
:Darmanitan: (Desolate Land, Turboblaze, Magic Guard, Tinted Lens, Chlorophyll)

B+ rank
:Primarina: Primarina (Triage, Poison Heal, Regenerator, Adaptability, Tinted Lens)
:Obstagoon: Obstagoon (Guts, Poison Heal, Magnet Pull)
:Cobalion: Cobalion (Regenerator, Flash Fire)
:Lucario: Lucario (Magic Guard, Tinted Lens, Scrappy, Tough Claws, Sheer Force)
:Rotom-Mow: Rotom Mow (Triage, Sheer Force)
:Bisharp: Bisharp (Adaptability, Magic Bounce, Tinted Lens)
:Golisopod: Golisopod (Regenerator, Poison Heal, Triage, Tough Claws, Tinted Lens)
:Polteageist: Polteageist (Dazzling, Psychic Surge, Magic Guard)
:Runerigus: Runerigus (Poison Heal, Regenerator)

:Arcanine: Arcanine (Pixilate, Desolate Land, Turboblaze, Magic Guard)


B rank
:Toxapex: Toxapex (Prankster, Corrosion)
:hippowdon: Hippowdon (Unaware, Magic Bounce, Stamina, Intimidate, Dauntless Shield)
:Grimmsnarl: Grimmsnarl (Regenerator, Poison Heal)
:Escavalier: Escavalier (Triage, Regenerator, Tinted Lens, Steelworker, Flash Fire)
:Rotom-Fan: Rotom Fan (No Guard, Magic Bounce, Sheer Force)
:Avalugg: Avalugg (Stamina, Unaware, Magic Bounce, Dauntless Shield)
:Dhelmise: Dhelmise (Triage)

B- rank
:Goodra: Goodra (Regenerator)
:Duraludon: Duraludon (Magic Guard, Tinted Lens, Regenerator)
:Pangoro: Pangoro (Triage)
:Conkeldurr: Conkeldurr (Triage, Magnet Pull)
:Glaceon: Glaceon (Refrigerate)
:Dracovish: Dracovish (Poison Heal, Swift Swim, Tinted Lens, Mold Breaker)
:Gallade: Gallade (Triage)
:Hatterene: Hatterene (Triage, Water Absorb)
:Froslass: Froslass (Desolate Land, Mold Breaker)
:Kyurem: Kyurem (Poison Heal, Snow Warning, Mold Breaker, Sheer Force, Tinted Lens)
:Gothitelle: Gothitelle (Pranskter)
:Orbeetle: Orbeetle (Magic Bounce, Mold Breaker, Poison Heal)
:Turtonator: Turtonator (Regenerator, Poison Heal)
:Bewear: Bewear (Stamina, Guts, Magnet Pull, Scrappy)

C rank (reserved for niche mons)
:Rotom-Frost: Rotom Frost (Sheer Force, No Guard)
:Gardevoir: Gardevoir (Tinted Lens, Adaptability)
:leafeon: Leafeon (Flash Fire)
:durant: Durant (Tough Claws)
:Weezing-galar: Galar Weezing (Prankster, Sheer Force)
:Corsola-galar: Galar Corsola (Mold Breaker, Magic Bounce, Prankster)
:Venusaur: Venusaur (Triage, Primordial Sea, Desolate Land)
:blastoise: Blastoise (Sheer Force, Mold Breaker, Poison Heal)
:hawlucha: Hawlucha (Magic Guard, Adaptability)
:rotom: Rotom (Desolate Land)

Feel free to comment and suggest changes!

EDIT 1 (3. 3. 2020): Noivern up to A+, Rune up to B+, Celebi down to A, Arcanine up to A-
EDIT 2(13. 3. 2020): Keld banned, Darm to A-due to VC ban, Chandelure and Zeraora to S-, PSea Heliolisk to A- because of Chandelure, Turtonator to B- because of VC ban
 
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Announcement


Octolock is now banned from Balanced Hackmons, and this will affect BH-based Mashups such as Camomons BH. I don't think if this will affect BH Doubles too, but, i'll leave it to you or to someone else.


Darmanitan is now banned from STABmons, and this will affect STABmons-based Mashups. However, this will not immediately affect STAAABmons (unless staff members decides to ban it as well), despite being on the radar of being one of problematic elements. The reasoning behind its ban was mainly Choice Band Sheer Force Pyro Ball 2HKO nearly every switching, to my understanding. In STAAABmons, however, Darmanitan is seen with V-Create alongside abilities such as Desolate Land, Tinted Lens or Mold Breaker. Some stated the move "V-Create" is what makes Darmanitan probematic, to what I've heard. In my perspective, Darmanitan banned from STABmons is not enough to conclude "Darmanitan vs V-Create" ban yet. If the staff member decides to not ban Darmanitan yet just because STABmons did, I'd like to remind to unban Darmanitan everytime STAAABmons tour is made, as Darmanitan is banned by default due to using STABmons as a base.
 

drampa's grandpa

turtonator's gurtonator
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
:keldeo: Keldeo and V-Create / Darmanitan are being suspected in STAAABmons :darmanitan:

We will be holding suspect tours starting Sunday, March 1, in the OM Mashups room.

If a tour has fewer than 8 participants the winner will get reqs. If there are 8 or more participants the winner and the runner up will both get voting reqs. Unlike previous suspects we've run, ONLY the first placer and second placer can obtain reqs, even if they already have them.
None of the suspected elements will be banned during these tours.

The schedule of suspect tours is as follows:

Sunday - 9 PM EST - hosted by drampa's grandpa
Monday - 9 AM EST - Hosted by The Number Man
Tuesday - After the daily (~5:30 PM EST) - Hosted by drampa's grandpa
Wednesday - 2 PM EST - Hosted by ice-master-523
Thursday - 3 PM EST - Hosted by drampa's grandpa
Friday - 9 AM EST - Hosted by drampa's grandpa
Friday - 8 PM EST - Hosted by drampa's grandpa
Saturday - 12 Noon EST - Hosted by ice-master-523
Sunday - 10 AM EST - Hosted by The Number Man
Sunday - After the daily (~5:30 PM EST) - Hosted by GΔCT

Can't make any of these tours? Let us know! We're still working out the details, and hope to schedule a couple more depending on the availability of our staff and the needs of our community. We will post in this thread announcing any new tours that are scheduled.

Now, onto the mons;​
:ss/keldeo: Keldeo has proven to be an indomitable wallbreaker and cleaner in STABmons. Thanks primarily to access to abilities such as Tinted Lens, among others, it is nigh impossible to reliably switch into without a dual immunity. Mold Breaker sets mean Water Absorb and similar abilities aren't reliable, while Primordial Sea can switch into the Desolate Land sets designed to check it. Keldeo has a ton of flexibility in its ability thanks to its amazing dual STABs and the variety of moves that come with them. In this metagame it gains priority as well, meaning that the offensive Pokemon that formerly could check most sets by outspeeding, such as Dragapult, risk getting chipped down into range of priority by hazards rather easily thanks to Keldeo's power.

All is not positive for the little pony however. Dragapult, while vulnerable to Tinted Lens Water Shuriken once chipped, is one of the top threats in the metagame and can easily force most Keldeos out. Keldeo's most powerful move in Water Spout is vulnerable to having its power lessened through any chip, and sets such as Poison Heal that can ignore that lack the raw firepower of offensive abilities. Several of Keldeo's power moves have low accuracy, including Hydro Pump and Focus Blast (used on the Sheer Force set), meaning Keldeo can be unreliable.
:ss/victini: V-Create has always been a somewhat broken move due simply to its outrageous power level. The drawbacks it brings of dropping Speed and Defenses, which frequently forces out the (usually rocks weak) users has done a good job balancing it historically. This combined with the relative lack of broken abusers has kept it from being banned in many iterations of both STABmons and Almost Any Ability. However here, in Gen 8 STAAAB, it's started to cause some problems. The combination of abilities such as Desolate Land, Tinted Lens, and Mold Breaker with V-Create enables the several strong physical Fire types to abuse V-Create to break through almost any wall. There are a number of strong abusers of the move, including Cinderace, Incineroar, and Centiskorch, all of which become potent offensive threats with the simple addition of this move. However...

:darmanitan: The most notable abuser of V-Create is Darmanitan, who has by far the most power out of the physical Fire types. Darmanitan's obscene levels of power and good coverage options make it extremely difficult to switch into, easily achieving KOs against Pokemon such as Toxapex with a simple Desolate Land + Band set.

Despite Darmanitan's high power it has the drawback of having middling speed, especially compared to Cinderace, allowing Pokemon such as Rotom-Wash to EV to outspeed it at -1, or simply use Prankster to Strength Sap back to full health. It is also extremely vulnerable to Stealth Rocks, and while it finds many opportunities to come in versus defensive Pokemon, it tends to be forced out often thanks to the stat drops V-Create brings, meaning if hazards are down it takes a lot of chip.

The questions we are seeking to answer in this suspect are:
Is Keldeo banworthy?
Is one of V-Create or Darmanitan banworthy?
If the answer to the previous question is yes, then which one is the broken element?

We will NOT be banning both Darmanitan and V-Create at the present time. Please do not vote Ban on both, you must pick one or neither.

Here is a what a sample vote will look like:
Code:
Abstain Keldeo
Ban Neither
- Keldeo is a straightforward choice between Ban and Do Not Ban. You may Abstain, as I did in this sample, in which case your vote will not be counted towards the total.
- You have three options for part two. Ban Darmanitan, Ban V-Create, or Ban Neither. Ban Neither MUST beat both other votes combined in order to win overall, as it is in essence a vote for no ban versus a vote for a ban. If Ban Neither receives less than half the votes, then the option of Ban Darmanitan and Ban V-Create with the greater number of votes will win.


We highly recommend posting reasoning with your vote, although it is not technically required. Let us know what you think, and who knows, you may just convince people to your point of view.

You can vote by posting your vote in this thread. Voting will conclude 48 hours after the last suspect tour. Once you've earned the ability to vote, feel free to do so, you don't need to wait for the tours to finish.

Please let me know if you have any questions, if anything is unclear, or if there's anything I can improve upon here. :drampa:
 
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Voting
Ban

Ban V-Create

Keldeo: Keldeo has proven to be a huge threat in STAAAB. It forces a water absorb ghost, a desoland ghost or some immunity to stand a chance of switching into it. It can 2hko resists with AV.
252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Keldeo Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Golisopod: 186-222 (52.5 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
It also has other sets which can catch you of guard, for example poison heal and sheer force.
Overall this mon is just to much for the current STAAAB Meta.

V-Create/Darmanitan: Along with Keldeo V-Create has proven to been powerful since day one with abusers Desoland Cinderace and Flareon. It;s incredily hard switching into a 180 base power move under sun coming off of amazing attack stats. Your best bet for switching into cinderace was physdef toxapex or an immunity.

252 Atk Cinderace V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex in Harsh Sunshine: 108-128 (35.5 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

If Cinderace is banded though, toxapex is easily 2hkoed.

252 Atk Choice Band Cinderace V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex in Harsh Sunshine: 162-192 (53.2 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

Once home dropped Darmanitan pushed desoland V-Create over the edge with its scarfed and notorious banded set.

252 Atk Choice Band Darmanitan V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex in Harsh Sunshine: 186-219 (61.1 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

Nothing could switch in without being immune to it, and even darm could u-turn out to scare the immunity. I have found myself using flash fire hippo as it walls it pretty well. Darmanitan could even run mold breaker sets to break past this.
I do think V-Create is more of a problem than darm is though.

TL;DR: Ban V-create and Keldeo they're way to much and very broken.
 
Great News:
little cup validate.png

"Little Cup" clause now validates whether pokemon are in level 5 or not, in addition to allowing pokemon with evolution and is at first stage. This means we are now getting Mix and Mega LC without telling other players to set their levels to 5.

Here's the Mix and Mega LC tour code.
Note: All LC Ubers are banned from Mega Evolving apart from Vulpix. But a few LC Uber will get retested for allowing Mega Evolutions at them. And some LC Ubers might get potentially get banned as a whole when the metagame progresses, with ones being Corsola-Galar, Sneasel, and Vulpix (or Drought).
 
I was going to drop a huge rant about why to ban Keldeo, but it would be a bit superfluous. Keldeo's oppressive and unbalanced. I know it, you know it, we all know it. It's pretty obvious to anyone that wanders into a STAAAB match that Keldeo is obscenely good. V-Create, I'm slightly less sure about, but not very. I would definitely like to take another look at V-Create once the DLC drops, but that's a few months out, still. I am afraid that with V-Create gone there will be a few problem children, but I suppose offense has had its time to shine in the meta.

Ban Keldeo
Ban V-create
 
Here's the LC Mashup's Sample Teams, was about to post this yesterday, but i ran out of time.
LC Mashups Sample Team

Balanced Hackmon LC
T.B.A

Camomons LC
:dewpider::pawniard::corphish::vullaby::koffing::diglett:
TBA
:mudbray::frillish::vullaby::ponyta::timburr::farfetch
TBA
:shellder::diglett::pawniard::timburr::vullaby::frillish:
TBA

AAA LC
:wingull::krabby::frillish::ferroseed::onix::vullaby:
TBA
:spritzee::ferroseed::vullaby::pancham::onix::ponyta:
This team is built around the usual defensive core of FerroSpritz. Spritzee is the team's WishPasser and it gains a great physical bulk with Dauntless Shield, and has pseudo-Eviolite bulk on the physical side if it lost its item. Covet is used to potentially regained its Eviolite after getting knocked by fighters and Vullaby, by stealing the item from Pawniard, Ferroseed, Mareanie and Ponyta. Ferroseed synergizes well with Spritzee as it greatly appreciate Wish support Spritzee provides and takes advantage of Mareanie, opposing Ferroseed, and Ponyta to switch-in and safely get a heal, and can used them to get a Spike up, removed items or cripple a switch-in with Thunder Wave. Giga Drain is the preferred STAB option to gave Ferroseed some small survivability. Vullaby is the main hazard removal in this team, and the catch to most threats. It can soften walls with its STAB Knock Off, and decently apply offensive pressure with its strong Brave Bird. Pancham is the main priority user to revenge kill weakened threat and the main sweeper. Zen Headbutt is the preferred coverage to punish Croagunk from using Pancham as set-up fodder, as well as hitting other Poison-Types such as Mareanie and Oddish. Onix's main role here is to set-up Stealth Rock and check Vullaby, rather than setting up Dragon Dance most of the time, Magic Guard Head Smash is used to get a OHKO on Vullaby without triggering its Berry Juice from a Dauntless Shield set or a potential Unburden set, and Eviolite is the preferred to reliably check Vullaby. Only set-up Dragon Dance once the opposing team's check is weakened enough or eliminated. Again, just focus on setting up Stealth Rock and check Vullaby first instead of finding an opportunity to sweep. Ponyta is the final member of this team, giving them a speed control, secondary Water switch-in, and a primary check to weathers. It uses Fire Blast and Solar Beam as its STAB and coverage because this team lacks a decently strong special attacker, and Vullaby, Onix, and Pancham covered the physical attacker slot together.

Weaknesses and Tips
:wingull: Primordial Sea Wingull can be a bit annoying to deal with, as it 2HKOes everything on the switch in ( after small prior damage in case of Ferroseed). Keep Ponyta, Ferroseed, Spritzee and Vullaby healthy to keep it in check, the latter 3 are needed in case Ponyta lost the weather war against it. Pressure Wingull with Stealth Rock too. If Wingull is in 35-40% (If its 20 HP) or 36-47% (If its 19 HP health), you can revenge kill it with Triage Drain Punch.

:croagunk: Croagunk can threatened the FerroSpritz core with its STABs and can used them to set-up Nasty Plot. Keep Vullaby healthy, and attempt to lure it in with Pancham and used Zen Headbutt. If Ponyta is still healthy enough, you can only KO it if you Knock Off its Eviolite with Ferroseed or Pancham.

:mareanie: Iron Defense Mareanie can be annoying to break through when it got a boost up, especially when Pancham get burned by Scald, Ferroseed is weakened, and Ponyta can't break it with this investment. Cripple Mareanie with Ferroseed's Thunder Wave and hope it paralyzed. You can changed Ponyta's spread to 76 Def / 236 SpA / 196 Spe so Fire Blast can 2HKO Mareanie after it gets Knocked by Pancham or Spritzee. Scout properly what ability Mareanie is running however, as Volt Absorb sets are immune to Ferroseed's Thunder Wave and Prankster variant can PP Stall Ponyta's Fire Blast, and Solar Beam doesn't reliably 2HKO Mareanie.
STABmons LC
:dwebble::pawniard::dreepy::bunnelby::woobat::dewpider:
TBA
:ponyta::trapinch::ferroseed::onix::mareanie::vullaby:
TBA

Mix and Mega LC
:vulpix::bulbasaur::cherubi::ponyta::onix::vullaby:
This is a team built around abusing sun with dual Chlorophyll + Houndoominite Ponyta. Vulpix is the main setter with Drought as its base ability and can hold Heat Rock to further extend sun duration. Bulbasaur is the breaker with triple STAB boosted by Life Orb, Sleep Powder is used to potentially crippled Ponyta or anything bulky, as well as avoiding Sucker Punch from Pawniard. Cherubi is the sweeper, with Eviolite giving it decent set-up opportunity, as well as surviving otherwise powerful priority such as Lucarionite Pawniard's Sucker Punch, Pinsirite Farfetch'd-Galar's Quick Attack, Life Orb Sneasel's Ice Shard, and Altarianite Zigzagoon's Extreme Speed. Houndoominite Ponyta is beast with sun up, as it is capable of 2HKOing even bulkier resist such as Mareanie. Flash Fire is used to prevent opposing Ponyta to taking advantage of using your sun. The remaining EV is put into HP in order to survived Lucarionite Pawniard's Sucker Punch and Sneasel's Throat Chop after rocks. Onix is the rock setter, and its Flying-resistance is needed to prevent Chlorophyll from getting plucked by birds. Lucarionite gives Onix a decent damage output and a speed tier above Pinsirite Farfetch'd-Galar. Vullaby is the defogger to removed webs, which is a nuisance to Chlorophyll users, as well as the emergency setter if Vulpix is down.

Weaknesses and Tips
:cutiefly: As i said above, Sticky Web is annoying for this team, as Chlorophyll users are going to be slowed down a lot, to the point they get outsped by 19 Speeders and above such as Charizardite Ponyta, Sneasel, Diancite user, even with sun up. Try finding opportunity to get a Defog off and you'll be fine.

Tyranitarite can be a little bit annoying, as it removes sun. This team already has 2 sun setter, and +2 Cherubi can still sweep even when sun is not up thanks to Giga Drain.

:zigzagoon::sneasel::pawniard::farfetch Priority users can posed a threat, but Cherubi can surprise kill Sneasel and Lucarionite Pawniard by surviving their priority thanks to Eviolite. Onix handles Flying-mon like Pinsirite Zigzagoon or Farfetch'd-Galar.
:ferroseed::mareanie::corsola-galar::zigzagoon::cutiefly::sneasel:
TBA

Click on the pokemon above the description to see and import the team. BH LC will be added soon, as well as the team's description. This Sample Team also supports Mix and Mega LC, despite not being labeled as official. Any suggestions will be appreciated and posting your team might be added here as well. Feel free to ask questions regarding the teams and help improving them.
 
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Abstain for Keldeo
Ban V-create

Explaination
So V-create is simply "overkill". I just looked at Dylanronpa calcs
252 Atk Cinderace V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex in Harsh Sunshine: 108-128 (35.5 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Cinderace V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex in Harsh Sunshine: 162-192 (53.2 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
and it's clear that V create doesn't have his place in this meta. I think V create is more a problem than Darmanitan, because there is so much fire type that could take advantage of this move, so ban darmanitan won't help.
I didn't play a lot of matchs, but I have looked some replays of final suspect, and this was absurd with V create too.
 
Ban V-Create
Ban Keldeo


V-Create is just too strong. Personally, I'd like to not have to run a counter to a single move on every team. The sooner this is gone, the sooner we finally get that sixth team slot. Pyro Ball is much easier to handle, so I don't think Darm needs a hit.

As for Keldeo, while I've only seen it be useless, I've witnessed firsthand just how strong tinted eruption / psea spout is, and with keldeo's stats, I could definitely see how it's an issue. 'Course personally, I'd rather ban Tinted Lens since that's the main source of all life's problems, and other Keldeo sets are nowhere near as threatening, but deleting one of the main abusers wouldn't hurt anybody. free Ice Scales
 
I've had enough time to deliberate on my votes.

BAN Keldeo
BAN VCreate


My reasoning:

First of all, Keldeo. It's a very MU based mon - it's either useless because you run into a mon that's immune to water/fight or it takes a kill whenever it comes in. There's obviously other sets than tinted specs, but those are way less problematic and much more easy to check defensively. I'd honestly be very reluctant to use Keldeo as the way I like to build teams only leaves 1 slot for a strong breaker and having that mon be blanked in 50% or more of games is not where I wanna be. With all that said, the reason I think Keldeo is problematic for the metagame and therefore banworthy is the fact that it puts immense pressure on teambuilding - you are basically forced to blank Keldeo during teambuilding as otherwise the following happens:
  • If you don't have a good switchin to it (that is, water absorb/desolate land ghost type) you are either forced into a sac war (assuming you have a similarly strong breaker that actually forces keldeo out - TCLO zeraora, and bandpult are the only mons that come to mind) or you have to outplay, sometimes many turns in a row to set up a position where your setup sweeper or lategame cleaner can win before Keldeo deletes your team with 6 water spouts.
Second, Darm vs Vcreate. Similarly to Keldeo, Vcreate also puts immense pressure on teambuilding. Flash Fire is often the only thing that really checks it, and when ppl start running unsets like FF togekiss to check Darm you know something is up. Personally, I think VCreate isn't at Keld levels of brokenness - mostly because i put Pheal Kommo on every team as a decent soft check to Vcreate mons - but it's very close. I'd honestly like to keep an eye on the metagame post VCreate bans as we don't want defensive cores to be literally unbreakable, just not as paperthin as they are right now.
 
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Ainzcrad

formerly boyn
So we susp keld and vcreate i vote to BAN keld and BAN vcreate. The fact that keld only has two safe switch ins being decidueye,celebi which still take a million from specs sea is kinda insane. Also the fact that chandelure pdon ability is able to switch in but you can just switch back into keldeo makes it way to broken. Vcreate just 180 base stab is facking insane and way to unhealthy in this metagame tnx to stabmons.
 

drampa's grandpa

turtonator's gurtonator
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
With that, all of our suspect tours are over!

I will be combining all of the suspect tour posts into this post in order to both have everything in one place and to keep the thread neat (sorry about your likes tour runners:pirate:) and I will be beginning the process of counting. This post will be updated as I work on this process, however everyone who earned the right to vote still has the opportunity to if they have not already.

Voting will close in 48 hours. Results may be announced before then IF we reach the minimum threshold for a guaranteed result, which is, again, 50%+1 required for a ban. Even in this case, which is rather likely given how the votes look at a glance, we would still love to hear from everyone who earned reqs to get their thoughts and a complete picture of the vote.

KELDEO AND V-CREATE ARE BANNED FROM STAAABMONS
We don't yet have all the votes so we don't know the final results but currently we're sitting on a 90.9090...% ban percentage for Keldeo and a 100% ban percentage for V-Create (yes it was all V-Create, no Darmanitan, as you can see below. Y'all can say I told you so Drampa :3).

The votes:
KELDEO
BAN: 10
DO NOT BAN: 1
ABSTAIN: 1

DARMANITAN / V-CREATE
BAN DARMANITAN: 0
BAN V-CREATE: 12
NO BAN: 0
Eternal Psycho - Ban Keldeo, Ban V-Create
Dylanronpa - Ban Keldeo, Ban V-Create
The Number Man - Ban Keldeo, Ban V-Create
ice-master-523 - Ban Keldeo, Ban V-Create
Binacleisthebest - Ban Keldeo, Ban V-Create
ElgyemSoul - Ban Keldeo, Ban V-Create
HGgamer - Abstain Keldeo, Ban V-Create
Capstone - Ban Keldeo, Ban V-Create
Derpeddeath - Do Not Ban Keldeo, Ban V-Create
Tmi489 - Ban Keldeo, Ban V-Create
madheadedghostie -
boyn - Ban Keldeo, Ban V-Create
WrathoftheLeopard - Ban Keldeo Ban V-Create


How do you think this will effect the metagame? Do you think anything will arise as the next broken threat with these offensive titans gone? Will stall be good? TOO good? Let us know what you think! Personally I have my eye on Melmetal; the removal of two potent offensive checks might enable it to spam Double Iron Bash too freely and flinch its way through all would-be switchins.
View attachment 225759
Congratulations to Eternal Psycho for winning our first suspect tour!
As there were more than 8 people participating, both of our finalists, Eternal Psycho and Dylanronpa earn voting reqs.
Here is the finals replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1072021459

As Eternal Psycho does not have a Smogon account I'm posting his vote for him.
View attachment 225760

We had a good turnout for our first tour, and I hope we see similar or even better in future ones!

In further news...
Our Sunday, March 8th suspect tour has been scheduled. It will be hosted by GΔCT AKA Best Gal (ha I managed to tag you this time) after the 5 PM daily in the the OM room.

I received a question as to whether it was allowable to vote both Ban Darmanitan and Ban V-Create. The answer to this is no. Suspecting complimentary elements of a metagame is bad policy in general unless it is being done, as it is here, to determine which to ban. In addition it leads to issues with counting the votes unless I do them completely separately, which can still create problems with splitting the vote.

The tl;dr is: We will be banning one or the other or neither of our fire-type friends, so vote accordingly.
View attachment 225846
The second suspect tour has just concluded! We had 8 people join, with me and ice-master-523 eventually facing off in the finals - giving us both reqs.
Finals replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1072206089

I haven't completely made up my mind on my votes yet, so I'm gonna wait a while before voting.
View attachment 226124
Congratulations to Eternal Psycho on winning the third suspect tour!
As they already have reqs and fewer than 8 people joined, nobody new earned reqs from this tour.
Here is the replay for the finals: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1073084387


Congratulations to ice-master-523 for getting reqs (lol). As I already had reqs and there's fewer than 8 people, nobody new got reqs =(

My vote is BAN V-Create. While Darmanitan is pretty broken, there are other abusers which are alright like arcanine and cinderace ig. But the main worry (other than Darmanitan) is Incineroar which is just insanely good; even on the rank of Darmanitan - it has access to Swords Dance, Knock Off (which KOs every relevant FFire at +2), Sucker Punch. This would easily fill the void left by Darmanitan. Banning only Darmanitan would just change the focus to Incineroar - which may be even better (seeing as it isn't just a one move pony + u turn)

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Incineroar V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Kommo-o: 316-373 (89.2 - 105.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery. Desolate Land gets the OHKO.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Incineroar Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 385-455 (96.2 - 113.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Incineroar Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 330-390 (93.7 - 110.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Incineroar Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 294-348 (96.7 - 114.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
Things faster than it are just getting OHKOed by sucker punch unless they resist.

My vote is BAN Keldeo - its pretty unbearable without like Desolate Land chandy or water absorb togekiss. Oftentimes you lose a mon each time this comes in. By far the most threatening set has been Tinted Lens & Specs imo.

Speaking of which I feel Chandelure could be on the radar for a ban too, it comes in on almost every defensive mon and can just pick up a KO and leave, rinse and repeat as seen in this replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1073540600
View attachment 226328
The latest suspect tour has concluded, with The Number Man once again coming out on top. As he already had reqs he did not earn them again.

We are discussing the possibility of opening up voting to all finalists by default. Whether that would apply retroactively or simply to all future tours is still up in the air. However the past three tours (AKA, more than half of them) haven't given new people voting reqs, which is not ideal.

We will make up our minds soon and keep you informed.
View attachment 226423
Congratulations to Capstone for winning our latest suspect tour and to both them and Derpeddeath for gaining voting reqs!
Finals replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1074529600
I realize I've triple posted once the suspect is over im going to delete a ton of posts and compile the important stuff into a megapost.
View attachment 226547
TNM and Icemaster523 got reqs, but they already had them
Finals: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1075155815
View attachment 226619
The penultimate suspect tour has just finished, with Nailah vs Ainzcrad in the finals. SInce Nailah already has reqs only Ainzcrad (boyn) gets them.
View attachment 226679

Final suspect tour for STAAAB was held. Dylanronpa already had reqs and WrathoftheLeopard just left his votes in the Showdown room chat:
View attachment 226681

uwu
 
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I'm looking for council members for STABmon Doubles to ban any banworthy moves or Pokemon (though that's low priority now). If you would like to join, PM me on Smogon Forum or Discord, do note that I will consider your knowledge with the metagame first before I can decide. It's also recommended to show me at least one replay, but not necessary.
 
I'm currently using a data on my phone as I got an internet connection lost. Anyways

Announcement


Vulpix-Alola is now banned from Little Cup, and this will affect LC based mashups such as Camomons LC.

The STAAABmons forum tour has been made. If you haven't joined yet and wanted to try it, then go for it.

I'm not used to type here on mobile yet, so i can't link :/

I am currently preparing a long post about LC AAA's Vullaby, so expect me posting it.

Edit: Added the Vulpix-Alola ban link, the STAAAB tour's link is in the next post
 
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LC AAA Presents:
Vullaby is a versatile threat in LC AAA, as it is able to run a variety of sets thanks to its greatest traits: Offensively, a close to unresisted STAB combination between Brave Bird and Knock Off or Air Slash and Dark Pulse allows it to hit anything hard for at least neutral damage despite its average offensive stat. Defensively, a solid bulk and access to Roost. Its great stats all-around are also makes Vullaby able to do this. So in this post, I will explain most of its set it can run.


Vullaby (F) @ Berry Juice
Ability: Dauntless Shield
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 236 Atk / 156 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Defog / Rock Smash

This is what I think, should be its main set (arguably the best one among its other set) and it is designed for one thing: Role Compression. It is a wallbreaker, slow pivot, hazard removal, and the most important is its ability to soft check numerous threats, granting it huge amount of utility, both defensively and offensively. This set fits on majority of teams as a general blanket check to many dangerous threats, including Triage Pancham, Choice Scarf Farfetch'd-Galar, Psychic Surge Ponyta-Galar, opposing Vullaby and many more. The EV Spread can be costumizable depending on what the team wants. Here's the notable benchmarks for Vullaby and its other sets that also uses Berry Juice(inspired from one post from Gen7 LC):
24 HP (36 HP EVs):
- consume Berry Juice after switching into rocks twice (this only applies to exactly 24 HP)
- takes 1 extra HP damage from rocks

25 HP (116 HP EVs):
- survives +2 Triage Pancham's Drain Punch from full
- survives Adaptability Croagunk's Focus Blast from full
- survives (18 Atk) Adaptability Pawniard's Iron Head after rocks
- survives Defensive Spritzee's Moonblast from full
- survives Defensive Chinchou's Thunderbolt from full
- survives Adaptability Diglett-Alola's Iron Head after rocks

combined with Dauntless Shield Ability:
- survives opposing Adaptability Vullaby's Brave Bird after rocks
- survives Tough Claws Rufflet Brave Bird after rocks
- survives +2 Triage Pancham's Drain Punch after rocks
- survives Sheer Force Life Orb Ponyta-Galar's Play Rough from full
- survives Life Orb Psychic Surge Ponyta-Galar's Play Rough after rocks
- survives Jolly Choice Scarf Tough Claws Farfetch'd-Galar's Close Combat after rocks
- survives (18 Atk) +2 Adaptability Pawniard's Iron Head from full
- survives +6 Zigzagoon's Extreme Speed from full
- survives Desolate Land Ponyta's Flare Blitz from full
- survives Darumaka's sun-boosted Flare Blitz from full

combined with 15 Defense (76 Def EVs):
- survives Life Orb Psychic Surge Ponyta-Galar's Play Rough from full
- survives Tough Claws Rufflet's Brave Bird from full
- survives Jolly Choice Scarf Tough Claws Farfetch'd-Galar's Close Combat from full
- survives Jolly Choice Scarf Adaptability Scraggy's High Jump Kick from full
- takes less damage from Hippopotas' Rock Slide

combined with 15 Def (76 Def EVs) and Dauntless Shield Ability:
- survives (17 Atk)+1 Adamant Scraggy's High Jump Kick from full
- survives Desolate Land Ponyta's Flare Blitz after rocks
- survives Eviolite Onix's Head Smash from full
- takes less damage from Hippopotas' Rock Slide

combined with 14 Special Defense (76 SpD EVs):
- survives Defensive Chinchou's Volt Switch after rocks

combined with 15 Special Defense (156 SpD EVs):
- survives Desolate Land Ponyta's Fire Blast from full
- survives Life Orb Ponyta-Galar's Dazzling Gleam after rock
13 Atk (76 Atk)
- better damage roll against frailer pokemon

combined with Adaptability
-- reliably 2HKOes knocked Dauntless Shield Spritzee and Hippopotas after rocks.

14 Atk (156 Atk)
- better damage roll against everything, including bulkier ones
- reliably 2HKOes knocked non-Dauntless Shield Spritzee and Hippopotas after rocks.
- OHKOes Pawniard with Knock Off followed by Rock Smash after rocks.

15 Atk (236 Atk)
- greater damage roll against everthing
- 2HKOes knocked non-Dauntless Shield Spritzee from full

combined with Adaptabilty
- OHKOes offensive Chinchou after rocks
- reliably 2HKOes knocked Dauntless Shield Spritzee and Hippopotas from full

16 Atk (236 Atk with Attack+ Nature)
- best possible damage output against everything
- OHKOes Pancham and Timburr from full
- 2HKOes Eviolite Mareanie

combined with Adaptability
- OHKOes Choice Scarf Chinchou
combined with 25 HP (116 HP EVs):
- survives +2 Triage Pancham's Drain Punch from full
- survives Adaptability Croagunk's Focus Blast from full
- survives (18 Atk) Adaptability Pawniard's Iron Head after rocks
- survives Defensive Spritzee's Moonblast from full
- survives Defensive Chinchou's Thunderbolt from full
- survives Adaptability Diglett-Alola's Iron Head after rocks

combined with 25 HP (116 HP EVs) and Dauntless Shield Ability:
- survives opposing Adaptability Vullaby's Brave Bird after rocks
- survives Tough Claws Rufflet Brave Bird after rocks
- survives +2 Triage Pancham's Drain Punch after rocks
- survives Sheer Force Life Orb Ponyta-Galar's Play Rough from full
- survives Life Orb Psychic Surge Ponyta-Galar's Play Rough after rocks
- survives Jolly Choice Scarf Tough Claws Farfetch'd-Galar's Close Combat after rocks
- survives (18 Atk) +2 Adaptability Pawniard's Iron Head from full
- survives +6 Zigzagoon's Extreme Speed from full
- survives Desolate Land Ponyta's Flare Blitz from full
- survives Darumaka's sun-boosted Flare Blitz from full

15 Defense (76 Def EVs):
- survives +2 Triage Pancham's Drain Punch from full
- survives Tough Claws Rufflet's Brave Bird from full
- takes less damage from Hippopotas' Rock Slide

combined with 25 HP (116 HP EVs):
- survives Life Orb Psychic Surge Ponyta-Galar's Play Rough from full
- survives Jolly Choice Scarf Tough Claws Farfetch'd-Galar's Close Combat from full
- survives Jolly Choice Scarf Adaptability Scraggy's High Jump Kick from full

combined with 25 HP (116 HP EVs) and Dauntless Shield Ability:
- survives (17 Atk)+1 Adamant Scraggy's High Jump Kick from full
- survives Desolate Land Ponyta's Flare Blitz after rocks
- survives Eviolite Onix's Head Smash from full
- takes less damage from Hippopotas' Rock Slide

16 Defense
combined with 25 HP (116 HP EVs) and Dauntless Shield Ability:
- survives Berry Juice Darumaka's sun-boosted Flare Blitz after rocks
- survives Adamant Life Orb Krabby's rain-boosted Crabhammer from full
14 Special Defense (76 SpD EVs)
- survives Adaptability Croagunk's Focus Blast from full
- survives Modest Sheer Force Life Orb Vullaby's Air Slash from full

combined with 25 HP (116 HP EVs)
- survives Defensive Chinchou's Volt Switch after rocks

15 Special Defense (156 SpD EVs)
combined with 25 HP (116 HP EVs)
- survives Desolate Land Ponyta's Fire Blast from full
- survives Life Orb Ponyta-Galar's Dazzling Gleam after rock
13 Speed
- outspeeds Croagunk and opposing uninvestment Vullaby
- outspeeds entire unboosted pokemon after a Speed Drop from Sticky Web bar Diglett

15 Speed
- outspeeds pokemon running 14 Speed such as defensive Chinchou, unboosted Krabby and Nasty Plot Vullaby.
- outspeeds 14 Speed Scarfers after a Speed drop from Webs
- ties with opposing Adamant or Modest Vullaby

16 Speed
- ties with Pawniard, Eviolite Farfetch'd-Galar and max Speed Vullaby
- outspeeds 15 Speed Scarfers after a Speed drop from Webs
- outspeeds opposing Adamant or Modest Vullaby
In this set's case, according to the benchmarks, 236 Atk and Adamant grants Vullaby the best possible damage output against almost everything, with the notable one being the 75% chance to OHKO Pancham and Timburr. 116 HP in conjunction with Dauntless Shield grants Vullaby the ability to tank a lot of powerful physical attacks, and 156 SpD lets Vullaby to take on Ponyta-Galar better. Another EV Spread includes 116 HP / 236 Atk / 76 Def / 36 Spe, in which Vullaby can start tanking Ponyta's sun-boosted Flare Blitz after Stealth Rock as well as +1 Scraggy's High Jump Kick and Eviolite Onix's Head Smash from full, and an extra Speed to outspeed Croagunk and opposing uninvested Vullaby. 116 HP / 236 Atk / 116 Def is another variants that let Vullaby survive Swift Swin Krabby's Crabhammer under rain from full. 116 HP / 156 Atk / 76 Def / 156 SpD is another spread that covers most of the threat that it checks, at the cost of some damage output. Lastly, a fast spread of 116 HP / 156 Atk / 196 Spe and Jolly Nature forfeits Vullaby's ability as a slow pivot to be as fast as possible, notably Speed tie with Pawniard, Swords Dance Farfetch'd-Galar and opposing Vullaby, and in some cases, get a fast Defog off, at the cost of another damage output. Avoid switching in into Knock Off as Berry Juice is its only method of recovery, but if it consumes the item, it has much easier to switch into the move thanks to Defense boost from Dauntless Shield and Dark-resistant. The reasoning behind using Berry Juice in this set is allowing Vullaby to instantly restored its HP without wasting a turn to used Roost, and even allowing Vullaby to forgo the move in favor of Defog. The immediate heal also aids Vullaby from avoiding certain KOs or 2HKOs, and makes Brave Bird's recoil less detrimental. While running a slowest variants by using a Brave Nature and 0 Speed IVs can help Vullaby bring its teammates more safely, it isn't recommended to used such EV spread as it forces a tie against Spritzee, or unable to deal heavy damage against Parting Shot Pancham before it pivots out, which is unnecessary.


Vullaby (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 76 Def / 196 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Defog / Rock Smash

Vullaby is also a great Choice Scarf user. Thanks to the aforementioned close to unresisted STAB combination, Vullaby is a great abuser of Adaptability, which grant it greater damage output that can overwhelmed its defensive checks, even Eviolite Pawniard starts getting 2HKOed by Brave Bird after it lost its item via Knock Off.


Vullaby (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 76 Def / 196 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Defog / Rock Smash

This is a wallbreaker set that uses Magic Guard to negate its Stealth Rock weakness, and recoil damage Brave Bird and Life Orb. Adamant grants it more damage while Jolly gives it 16 Speed, which is going to be good given with the removal of some 17-20 Speeder from past gen such as Abra, Gastly, Mienfoo, Elekid, Doduo and Staryu. This set deals about nearly the same damage as Adaptability, in addition, it avoids getting locked into one move. This set lacks defensive investment, and thus, the opportunity to switch-in is mininal compared to other sets unless its a weak resisted hit, Knock Off should be avoided as much as possible as it needs Life Orb to deal more damage, especially against most Dauntless Shield users.


Vullaby (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Level: 5
EVs: 76 Def / 236 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Air Slash
- Heat Wave
- Nasty Plot

With Abra and Gastly gone, Vullaby is a solid option as a special attacker. Sheer Force + Life Orb grants it strong immediate power to patched up its middling Special Attack stat and the average Base Power of Dark Pulse and Air Slash, and it can be further boosted by Nasty Plot. This set can also lure most Dauntless Shield user and deal notable damage, 2HKOing most of them after Stealth Rock. At +2, it is able to deal heavy damage against bulkier pokemon, notably OHKOing Eviolite Mareanie, Hippopotas and defensive Chinchou after a layer of Spikes. This set is used purely as an offensive attacker and lacks the utility that Knock Off provides. Finding opportunities to set up Nasty Plot is sometimes difficult in this set due to lack of defense investment and Eviolite or Berry Juice.


Vullaby (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Dauntless Shield / Stamina / Unaware / Volt Absorb / Delta Stream / Regenerator / Magic Bounce
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 76 Atk / 76 Def / 236 SpD
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Knock Off
- Roost
- U-turn / Defog

This is a defensive set that utilizes its solid defensive stat and access to recovery move. Most defensive abilities can be used such as Regenerator, Unaware, Delta Stream and Volt Absorb. Due to investing more on bulk, this Vullaby doesn't hit as hard as its offensive set, and this is its most passive set by far.


Vullaby (F) @ Berry Juice / Eviolite
Ability: Unburden / Chlorophyll / Surge Surfer
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 236 SpA / 116 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Air Slash
- Heat Wave
- Nasty Plot

This is a set-up sweeper set that uses some speed boosting abilities, with the common one being Unburden + Berry Juice variant. 14 Speed allows Vullaby to outspeed almost any Choice Scarf users after a Speed Boost from its ability. It should be note that unlike Sheer Force set, this one lacks damage output unboosted and struggles breaking through most defensive pokemon at +2, and thus require some support in order to get a sweep.

There are still some few other sets that Vullaby can run, such as ScarfRegen and Bulky Attacker(Eviolite).

How to handle Vullaby?
Due to its plethora of sets, Vullaby can be difficult to check on the preview until it has revealed its set, let alone countering all its set.
However, there are still some ways to deal with Vullaby:

Defensive sets (notably most Eviolite Roost set) tend to be lacking in damage output while Offensive set (Magic Guard + Life Orb, Scarf, most Special Attacking set) often lacks some of its defensive utility or longevity. Offensive Pokemon that are faster and have super-effective move such as Chinchou and Cutiefly are the one of best ways to put Vullaby in check.

Stealth Rock limits Vullaby's switch-in opportunity, due to cutting its HP into quarter. EvioRoost sets forces to recover the damage,
and Berry Juice set relied on being at full health in order to take a hit against most threats that it soft checks. While it is used as a Defogger, a few rock setter are able to beat or threaten Vullaby, with notable ones being Onix and Pawniard. Onix can forced Vullaby to switch out due to potential Head Smash, and Pawniard can be tricky to prevent it from setting up hazard by other pokemon due to powerful Adaptability Knock Off is or it might be a Swords Dance sweeper.

Berry Juice sets are vulnerable to Knock Off, as it is the set's only source of recovery. In addition, it is unable to punish users from using the move due to lack of Speed Boost Weak Armor provides. This mean is has to be careful about switching in on pokemon carrying said move, with ones being Ferroseed, Pancham, Scraggy and others until it has consumed the item.

On to the specific Pokemon:

Not only Onix possesses a titanic physical bulk, but it is also faster than unboosted Vullaby. It is able to check most physical variants, threatens Vullaby with Rock-STAB and can set-up Stealth Rock. However, Sheer Force set can deal a lot of damage against Onix due to its poor special bulk. Dauntless Shield Berry Juice can take a Rock Blast from Onix in some cases. It also lacks recovery move to check Vullaby in the long run.


Dauntless Shield Spritzee's bulk allows it to avoid a 2HKO from Brave Bird and threatens to KO offensive variants with Moonblast. Though, after its Eviolite got removed, it is forced to recover the majority of the time unless it is able to retrieved one via Covet. Adaptability and Magic Guard + Life Orb can still overwhelmed Spritzee with Brave Bird after it lost its Eviolite.


Pawniard is the only pokemon that resist both Vullaby's STAB. It can threaten Defensive and Berry Juice sets to removed their items with Knock Off, and can set-up hazard or Swords Dance. However, it is prone to its coverage move such as Rock Smash or Heat Wave. Like Onix, Pawniard lacks recovery move.


Regenerator Chinchou is another check that can do its defensive job better due to lack of trappers in this generation. However, Volt Switch doesn't OHKO even offensive Vullaby from full due to the set's passiveness. It can still get overwhelmed by Knock Off, and Sheer Force set can deal noticeable amount of damage.

There are some few techs that are used mostly against some Vullaby sets such as:


Pancham @ Eviolite
Ability: Triage
Level: 5
EVs: 60 HP / 180 Atk / 180 Def / 52 SpD / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Thunder Punch / Gunk Shot
- Swords Dance

This Pancham set uses 15 Defense mostly to avoid getting OHKOed by Vullaby's Brave Bird, provided it isn't Adaptability or Magic Guard Life Orb. It came from what they called "15 Def Fighter" in LC, where some Mienfoo and Timburr sets run 15 Def to avoid a OHKO from Vullaby's Brave Bird after rocks in Gen7.
 
Announcement:

Hydreigon is now banned from Camomons, and this will affect Camomons-based Mashup such as CAAAmomons.

The new "Forme Clause" is now
implemented in Balanced Hackmons, and this will affect BH-based Mashups such as Camomons BH. Here's a description about the Forme Clause:

" Forme Clause: You may only use one of each forme of a mon on your team. "

Example: You can't used 2 Rotom-Wash on the same team (similar to Species Clause), but you can used both Rotom-Wash and Rotom-Heat on the same team.


Even if the pokemon has only one forme, you can't used more than one of it on the same team.
Example:
-You can't used 2 Zekrom on the same team.
-You can't used 2 Munchlax on the same team.

I've tested this on groupchat and you can put Forme Clause in the tour code to have a Forme Clause effect.
 

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