OM Mashup Megathread

Introduction to STABmons + Almost Any Ability aka STAAABmons!

STAAABMONS is currently suspect testing Magearna! More info here.

With STAAABmons getting a ladder this month as leader's choice and since we don't get our own thread, I have decided to make a primer on the metagame that will consolidate all resources in one post (this is the thread for STAAABmons discussion!). Found below are the following:
a quick introduction on this metagame's concept, banlist and ruleset (in the spoiler below), a bunch of sample teams that I have compiled from our users' submissions and a VR/Setpedia for the metagame.


Pokemon can use almost any ability and any (non restricted) move of their typing.

Clauses:
  • Species Clause: A player cannot have two Pokemon with the same National Pokédex number on a team.
  • 2 Ability Clause: A player cannot have more than two Pokemon with the same Ability on a team.
  • OHKO Clause: A Pokemon may not have the moves Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill, or Sheer Cold in its moveset.
  • Evasion Clause: A Pokemon may not have either Double Team or Minimize in its moveset.
  • Sleep Clause: If a player has already put a Pokemon on his/her opponent's side to sleep and it is still sleeping, another one can't be put to sleep.
  • Endless Battle Clause: Players cannot intentionally prevent an opponent from being able to end the game without forfeiting.
  • Dynamax Clause: Players cannot use the mechanic known as Dynamaxing.
Banlist:
Pokemon: Ubers, Slaking, Regigigas, Pheromosa, Kartana, Blacephalon, Chandelure, Terrakion, Keldeo, Melmetal, Dragapult, Zeraora, Landorus-I, Calyrex-Shadow, Calyrex-Ice, Kyurem-Black, Tapu Koko, Dragonite, Archeops, Zygarde, Thundurus T, Thundurus I, Genesect, Shedinja, Silvally, Volcarona, Naganadel
Abilities: Arena Trap, Comatose, Contrary, Fluffy, Fur Coat, Gorilla Tactics, Huge Power, Ice Scales, Illusion, Imposter, Intrepid Sword, Innards Out, Libero, Moody, Neutralizing Gas, Parental Bond, Protean, Power Construct, Pure Power, Shadow Tag, Simple, Stakeout, Speed Boost, Water Bubble, Wonder Guard, Tinted Lens
Moves:
RESTRICTED: Acupressure, Belly Drum, Bolt Beak, Double Iron Bash, No Retreat, Fishious Rend, Shell Smash, Shift Gear, Spore, V-Create, Transform, Thousand Arrows, Geomancy, Lovely Kiss, Extreme Speed
BANNED: Baton Pass, Hypnosis, Sing, Grasswhistle, Sleep Powder, Wicked Blow, Electrify
Items: King's Rock, Razor Fang
UNBANS: (from STABmons): Dracovish, Porygon Z
UNRESTRICTED (from STABmons): Astral Barrage

Council:
:kommo-o:The Number Man (Tier Leader)
:Lanturn: manu 11
:Gengar: RICEMAN
:Snorlax: Tmi489
:jirachi: Axgwd
:claydol: Best Gal


1) Sample teams:

Offense:


:jirachi: :cresselia: :hatterene: :stakataka: :victini: :marowak-alola: Trick Room by RICEMAN
The purpose of this team is to click trick room then watch the opponents team drop to your breakers.

Setters:
These are the mons that ensure you get the trick room up.

Jirachi works as your ground type answer as most don't carry another move SE against steel types. This clicks trick room then dips with teleport.

Cressellia is the primary trick room setter. Lead with this as it is fat enough to live any hit. The trick is to cripple any fast attacker by making them always move last.

Hattrene is here to make sure you don't get swept by Triage priority. This can also be used offensively with expanding force or moonblast.

Breakers:
These are the mons that ensure the opponent has no room to even make a move.

Marowak-A is complete powerhouse that almost 2hko's the entire meta. SD is there incase you predict a switch.

Victini is here to just abuse V-Create in the sun. Bolt strike is for flash fire corviknight and photon geyser is for stab + pex. U-turn is for momentum

Stakataka is here as a fallback trick room setter. The balloon is to allow you to get it out on ground types and set a hail mary trick room. Adapt diamond storm does close to 50% on phys def pex but sadly that just eats and recovers up. THATS WHERE WONDER ROOM COMES IN! This move swaps defence and special defence so now u have a spdef stakataka and a weak asf pex that is gonna DROP.
Gyroball is almost always at 150bp since we slow as hell boi.

Now enjoy spamming the STAAAB Ladder
:umbreon: :landorus-therian: :urshifu-rapid-strike: :volcanion: :ferrothorn: :rotom-wash: Rain offense by Atha

:swampert: :buzzwole: :weavile: :magearna: :heatran: :tapu fini: Standard Bulky Offense by Menace17
This is a really bulky team who strictly follow the recipe of a good STAAAB team . Dauntless Shield Swampert to set up rocks , take damage (that he can heal with Shore Up) pivot with Flip Turn and punish switch with PBlades . Weavile , a nuke with queenly majesty so he can come freely on pokes like Triage Buzzwole or Triage Togekiss due to his immunity to OWing, DKiss, DPunch and Leech Life (very useful when you're weak to barely all those moves )and punish them with a Stabed Glacial Lance or lock them with Switcheroo and then set up with Sword Dance . A Magearna Unaware , there is a lot of Set Up sweeper and this thing just wall most of them (MOST not all , don't try to come on a set up Heatran) , with a set up set because that's ironical and he's only check is Unaware Mag , funny isn't it ? A Tapu Fini with Poison Heal , he only have a support role , same as Swampert but on special moves , may need to change it . Heatran Magic Guard with Life Orb and autotomize , with that he can touch a lot of poke and after one Autotomize , even if he's not max speed ,he become really hard to Outspeed by his official check . And the last one , the Prio Abuser , Buzzwole Triage is one of the best poke , good movepool and a stab on two draining move , with his good bulk most of the time you'll have the opportunity to place one Bulk Up and then sweep .

:landorus-therian: :heatran: :stakataka: :weavile: :kyurem: :tapu fini: Gale Wings Lando magpull by Menace17
This team is a counter to the actual STAAAB metagame and i tried to find an answer to every big threat, but this team is weak to Stealth Rocks.
First, the Heatran run magnet pull to trap Magearna and prevent a Healing move with Taunt, autotomize can be changed to an other move more useful like King's Shield but I let it since it's always useful to set up a Pokémon and then try to sweep with. Blue Flare and Earth Power are here to be sure to touch Flash fire and Levitate Magearna, obviously and unfortunately, most Magearna run Volt Switch but you can anticipate that to immediately send an answer like Landorus.
Stakataka, this Pokémon is here to check physical spammer like Glacial Lance Weavile and maybe Victini after one King's Shield (depend of the set but i don't think he can take a lot of V-Create if it's Sun/Band) and set up Stealth Rocks which are kinda underestimate in STAAAB.
My proudest creation : Band Landorus-T with Gale Wings and Dragon Ascent, the creator of this feeling when you don't have anything to check a Pokémon and you see the end coming. This Pokémon is just a monster, with Gale Wings you don't need to invest speed, you just have to click Dragon Ascent and see the opposite team die. Precipice Blade and U-Turn are here to punish/anticipate the opponent answer and destroy it and then let Landorus do the Job.
Weavile is also a classic, due to his new toy call "Glacial Lance" he's a real monster, Queenly Majesty is obviously to counter abomination like Triage Owing Togekiss or Triage Tornadus and the most evil of all, Gale Wing Landorus-T. Switcheroo is to lock the opposite Pokémon on a healing move and then kill with Glacial Lance, Knock off or set up with Sword Dance. The only Pokémon that may be a problem is Buzzwole which is threaten by Landorus.
Kyurem is just Kyurem, Sheer Force is actually a really good set and it can easily pressure when he's behind a Substitute, Roost can be run instead of something but i personally find Substitute better.
And the master piece, Tapu Fini, due to the good typing Tapu Fini resist to a lot of thing and check most of teams weaknesses like Fire and Fight, Defog is probably the most important move on the set, this team and particularly Landorus is very weak to SR that warn him to spam Dragon Ascent. Taunt is here to prevent entry hazarding Fleur Cannon to do some damage (you can put the 8Atk EV on SpA) and you don't care about SpA drop cause you can pivot with Flip Turn.

:Tornadus: :buzzwole: :latios: :landorus-therian: :heatran: :weavile: Sticky Webs by RICEMAN

:inteleon: :garchomp: :latios: :magearna: :corviknight: :urshifu-rapid-strike: Volt Turn by temp

:victini: :weavile: :latios: :noivern: :chansey: :corviknight: Dragmag by Axgwd

Balance:
:weavile: :suicune: :tornadus-therian: :zapdos: :chansey: :magearna: Weavile + Fat setup spam balance by The Number Man

:latios: :zapdos-galar: :corviknight: :chansey: :toxapex: :magearna: Latios + GZap balance by youngsterjoeyv69

:Magearna: :Zapdos: :Tapu Lele: :Dracozolt: :Umbreon: :Steelix: Lele + Zolt Balance by longhiep341:
This team specializes in breaking defensive cores and stall. The combination of Doom Desire/Future Sight + Zapdos-Galar/Dracozolt can break any core since nothing can take both at the same time. Umbreon has Water Absorb since this team can struggle against rain and Psyspam otherwise. Thick Fat is an underrated ability, and Steelix makes great use of it. It can live a Mind Blown from Heatran, as well as tank all the Adaptability/Tinted Lens Glacial Lance that is trending. Protect is to lessen the risk against Tinted Lens Lando-T, which can outpace the whole team with Scarf and threaten the whole team with Tinted Lens Dragon Ascent/Precipice Blades.

https://pokepast.es/e520d162609d1073

2) VR and Setpedia

The first draft of the VR/setpedia can be found here in pokepaste form and in the section below this paragraph. Click on the names of the pokemon in the VR to open up the pokepaste with their sets. For now we only have sets for mons that are ranked A- or higher, but we will likely be adding to this resource throughout the month. This is not meant to be an exhaustive list of all possible sets, merely a starting point for new players.

S-
Magearna (Flash Fire, Levitate, Regenerator, Magic Guard, Triage, Unaware)

A+
Chansey (Regenerator, Unaware, Magic Bounce)
Latios (Psychic Surge, Dragon's Maw, Adaptability)
Togekiss (Triage)
Landorus-T (Adaptability, Unburden)
Buzzwole (Adaptability, Triage, Dauntless Shield, Flash Fire, Regenerator)
Gengar (Storm Drain, Dazzling, Adaptability, Lightning Rod)
Weavile (Adaptability, Technician, Dazzling)

A
Tapu Fini (Poison Heal, Dauntless Shield, Triage, Regenerator)
Swampert (Intimidate, Regenerator, Dauntless Shield, Poison Heal, Sap Sipper, Primordial Sea)
Corviknight (Flash Fire, Volt Absorb, Regenerator, Magic Bounce, Unaware, etc.)
Victini (Desolate Land, Magnet Pull, Sheer Force, Magic Guard)
Heatran (Magic Guard, Magnet Pull, Desolate Land)
Toxapex (Prankster, Regenerator, Iron Barbs)
Aerodactyl (Magic Guard)

A-
Suicune (Poison Heal)
Spectrier (Adaptability, Dazzling)
Tornadus I + T (Triage)
Zapdos (Magic Bounce, Triage, Intimidate, Dauntless Shield, Delta Stream)
Tyranitar (Regenerator, Bulletproof, Magic Guard)
Kyurem (Adaptability, Sheer Force, Skill Link, Poison Heal)
Urshifu R (Technician, Primordial Sea, Regenerator)
Zapdos G (Magic Guard, Adaptability, Poison Heal)
Garchomp (Technician, Adaptability, Dauntless Shield, Poison Heal, Dazzling)
Mew (Prankster, Magic Bounce, Dauntless Shield)
Mamoswine (Adaptability, Technician, Regenerator)
Barraskewda (Primordial Sea)
Marowak Alola (Desolate Land, Adaptabiliy)

Viable
Urshifu - S (Tough Claws, Guts, Triage, Regenerator)
Glastrier (Adaptability)
Dracovish (Primordial Sea, Dazzling, Adaptability)
Dracozolt (Transistor, Adaptability, Dragon's Maw)
Ferrothorn (Flash Fire, Triage, Dauntless Shield, Mold Breaker)
Snorlax (Poison Heal, Unaware)
Doublade (Flash Fire, Levitate)
Gyarados (Technician, Magic Guard)
Noivern (Aerilate)
Nihilego (Mold Breaker, Regenerator, Water Absorb, Levitate)
Skarm (Flash Fire, Volt Absorb, Magic Guard)
Lele (Psychic Surge)
Bulu (Triage, Poison Heal)
Staka (Levitate, Steelworker, Adaptability)
Salamence (Technician, Triage, Magic Guard, Adaptability)
Cress (Poison Heal, Magic Bounce, Unaware)
Golisopod (Regenerator, Poison Heal, Volt Absorb, Triage)
Rhydon (Regenerator, Water Absorb)
Zarude (Triage, Grassy Surge)
Rhyperior (Water Absorb, Regenerator, Magic Guard, Sap Sipper)

3) Suspects!

While we usually defaulted to quickbans or council votes when it came to tiering decisions, this ladder gives us a good opportunity to run a suspect test. If you guys think there's something that needs attention, feel free to bring it up in this thread. Read the disclaimer at the top of the post first tho!


Edit 4: Updated with VR and setpedia!
Time to make my one nom for the vr


Heliolisk UR -> Viable

Specs Adaptability Boomburst has a high chance of 2hkoing physicaly defensive Celesteela

252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Heliolisk Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 4 SpD Celesteela: 199-235 (50.1 - 59.1%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

This thing still has it. As before, any ground type doesnt want to switch into a boomburst bc all of them get ohko'd by it barring the rare defensive swampert which gets 2hko'd confidently by it. AV mag makes it go :( but it can always volt switch on it and non specially defensive variants get 2hko'd by tbolt. It can make a great partner to mons that hate steel flyings with ff such as victini, or desolate land landorus
 
Ok, so I know I'm smol braining this because I'm just using the same concepts used in other metagames but c'mon...
How the hell has no one made an elemental immunities team on here yet? I pretty much solely run this and u can gimp ppl so easily bc half the mons in this metagame revolve around walling.
Swampert + Sap Sipper
Heatran + Levitate
Gyarados + Volt Absorb
Weavile + Adaptability } Standard
Magearna + Unaware } Standard
Scizor + Flash Fire
And then a Mold breaker Dps like Garchomp. if you don't want to run a standard mon like Weavile/ Magearna.
It's obvious what you're doing, people know what abilities you're running. But they still can't really hurt you unless they themselves send out a mold breaker. Which Weavile/ Magearna can counter.

P.S. Doom Desire is an extremely powerful steel move. unless the opponent runs protect and can time their switches it's really ez to spam debuff moves and stall until it nukes. And if they do keep sending in the same mon to protect then u know you get a free turn when they switch.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The times for the remaining two suspect tours have been decided! Both will take place in the OM Mashups room on PS.

Friday at 4PM GMT+1 - hosted by We Wuz Nidokangz
Sunday at 9PM GMT+1 - hosted by manu 11

A small change regarding reqs. Reqs are given to the winner and in the case of 12+ man tours to the runner up as well. Since a good portion of our regulars already have reqs we decided to let reqs be passed down to the runner up if the winner already has them, regardless of tour size.
 

CringeMeta

formerly We Wuz Nidokangz
After talking in the OM room and with some of the ROs we noticed a pretty glaring issue with the StAAAb banlist: Wicked Blow should not be fully banned in StAAAbmons, this is a complex ban that as a result only nerfs Urshifu (as it's the only Pokemon that naturally learns Wicked Blow) and goes against Smogon's tiering policy. If Urshifu with Wicked Blow is a problem, then ban Urshifu; fully banning Wicked Blow is a not a viable solution to the issue. I hope the council reconsiders their decision here
I feel like I might be missing something here (e.g. if 'complex ban' is being used in a metaphorical sense), but Wicked Blow is clearly not a complex ban; it's a simple ban of one move.

After looking for the specific official tiering rules, the most recent policy framework I could find doesn't seem to say anything in particular for or against banning moves. That said, it's fair to say that there is reputable advice to prefer banning Pokemon rather than moves or other objects. This is, however, not a hard and fast rule, but rather guidance to first at least consider Pokemon bans:-

While I agree we should generally favor banning Pokémon, I don’t think a hard rule should be set. The purpose of tier leaders and councils is to come up with logical solutions to issues raised by the player base, that not only lead to competitively balances tiers, but also tiers with an abundance of play styles and a legitimate looking ban list. The vast majority of the time that will result in the banning of Pokémon. But we shouldn’t handcuff ourselves to that.
What I'm looking for isn't a hard rule, but I am looking for people not to ban abilities without even discussing banning the Pokémon instead, which I still see happening quite often.
Practically speaking, OU banning the move Baton Pass as well as several abilities also seems to evidence this.

In this case, Wicked Blow was not thoughtless banned as a first resort but rather the council considered this situation in detail (e.g. beginning here up to the final decision as explained here).

Since the decision occurred during specific circumstances during DLC1, it's possible that this ban has now coincidentally become unnecessary. However, in retrospect I think this was generally seen as a good decision in the interests of balance, and, without apparent evidence of a specific policy violation, one that I don't think the council should be pressured into revoking in principle (or avoiding consideration of in a similar future situation).
 

CringeMeta

formerly We Wuz Nidokangz
The times for the remaining two suspect tours have been decided! Both will take place in the OM Mashups room on PS.

Friday at 4PM GMT+1 - hosted by We Wuz Nidokangz
Sunday at 9PM GMT+1 - hosted by manu 11

A small change regarding reqs. Reqs are given to the winner and in the case of 12+ man tours to the runner up as well. Since a good portion of our regulars already have reqs we decided to let reqs be passed down to the runner up if the winner already has them, regardless of tour size.
The Friday tour was won by Ka1xo, who notified me that his Smogon account is Just A Jew. There were 11 participants, unfortunately 1 user short of the finalist threshold. Congratulations on suspect reqs, Ka1xo/Just A Jew!

Screen Shot 2020-12-12 at 00.57.13.png


Finals Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8staaabmons-1241663658

 

temp

legacy
is a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Simulator Driver Alumnus
I just wanna spam some Camo ABC ideas, so here you go. Pokemon with S as their's/their prevo's name are solid by default. They get access to a ridiculous amount of utility moves and solid BP offensive moves as well.

:clefable:
1607701259189.png
1607701262875.png


Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Core Enforcer
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Court Change / Knock Off / Thunder Wave

Clefable @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 72 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Core Enforcer
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Calm Mind / Flamethrower


:nidoking:
[
1607701556704.png
1607701564248.png
] • [
1607701577724.png
1607701585414.png
] • [
1607701624456.png
1607701556704.png
] • [
1607701870147.png
1607701585414.png
]

Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower
- Nasty Plot
- Ice Beam

Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Night Daze
- Nasty Plot
- Substitute

Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Nasty Plot
- Substitute

Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Focus Blast
- Night Daze
- Nasty Plot
- Sludge Wave


:rhyperior:
[
1607701998138.png
1607702014761.png
] • [
1607702030054.png
1607702014761.png
]

Rhyperior @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Roost
- Aqua Tail
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic

Rhyperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 244 HP / 12 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Aqua Tail
- Rapid Spin
- Roost


:blacephalon:
[
1607701564248.png
1607702889386.png
] • [
1607701564248.png
1607701556704.png
] • [
1607701556704.png
1607701585414.png
]

Blacephalon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Blue Flare
- Boomburst
- Trick
- Shadow Ball

Blacephalon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 36 Atk / 220 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Blue Flare
- Bolt Strike
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp

Blacephalon @ Choice Band
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bolt Strike
- Knock Off
- Explosion
- Fire Punch


:tornadus-therian:
[
1607701998138.png
1607701556704.png
] • [
1607701585414.png
1607710450906.png
]

Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Thunderbolt
- Nasty Plot
- Heat Wave

Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Knock Off
- Sludge Bomb / Toxic Spikes
- Topsy-Turvy
- Teleport


:toxtricity:
1607701624456.png
1607701870147.png


Toxtricity @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Triple Axel
- Power-Up Punch
- Shift Gear
- Drain Punch


:entei:
[
1607701577724.png
1607702889386.png
] • [
1607701564248.png
1607702889386.png
]

Entei @ Choice Band
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake / Sacred Fire
- Extreme Speed
- Explosion
- Sacred Fire / Earthquake


:suicune:
[
1607701259189.png
1607711984333.png
] • [
1607702014761.png
1607710450906.png
] • [
1607701262875.png
1607710450906.png
] • [
1607701870147.png
1607701998138.png
] • [
1607701577724.png
1607701998138.png
] + whatever you want

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Strange Steam
- Shadow Ball
- Calm Mind
- Shore Up

Suicune @ Black Sludge
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Sludge Bomb
- Calm Mind
- Shore Up

Suicune @ Black Sludge
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spacial Rend
- Sludge Bomb
- Calm Mind
- Shore Up

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Secret Sword
- Air Slash
- Shore Up
- Stealth Rock / Spikes

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scorching Sands
- Air Slash
- Shore Up
- Stealth Rock / Spikes


:sigilyph:
[
1607702030054.png
1607701564248.png
] • [
1607702030054.png
1607701259189.png
] • [
1607702030054.png
1607701262875.png
]

Sigilyph @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steel Beam
- Searing Shot
- Scorching Sands
- Calm Mind / Roost

Sigilyph @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steel Beam
- Strange Steam
- Secret Sword
- Calm Mind / Roost

Sigilyph @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steel Beam
- Spacial Rend
- Searing Shot / Secret Sword
- Calm Mind / Roost


o7 free callous
 
:ss/incineroar: Doubles Mashups Sample Teams :ss/rillaboom:

Another edition of Doubles Mashups Sample Teams for DLC 2. Since building teams for Doubles is much more difficult for newcomers, this sample team section should ease that. More coming soon, be sure to check OM Mashups discord for updates.

AAA Doubles (updated 1/1)
Poison Heal Zygarde
:zygarde: :zeraora: :zapdos-galar: :mew: :genesect: :volcarona:
https://pokepast.es/def25ba05ef8cd68

Zygarde seems to pair very well with Poison Heal, so that's what the team has in mind. Zeraora and Mew act as Fake Out Pivot that gives Zygarde some momentum to work with as well as having Intimidate that lowers the foes' attack stat. With Dazzling, Galarian Zapdos can block Fake Out, Triage, and Extreme Speed for itself and Zygarde. I put Genesect more of a test and I do need an offensive Steel-type. Volcarona acts as an alternative win condition in case something goes wrong. Still, there's a lot of stuff in AAA Doubles to keep in mind.

Cursed Room
:Diancie: :necrozma: :amoonguss: :cresselia: :glastrier: :volcanion:
https://pokepast.es/2b42a0de861c879e

Trick Room has gotten worse

Dauntless Shield is easily one of Diancie's best ability as it gives both defensive and offensive pressure with its newly gained Body Press. As usual, Amoonguss is an important component for Trick Room teams with its ability to redirect with Rage Powder, heal with Pollen Puff, and spread Spore if possible. With the return of Cresselia, Necrozma can now run Psychic Surge with Cresselia serving as a broken Trick Room setter. Volcanion pairs well with Diancie as it can direct Urshifu's Surging Strike and Dracovish's Fishious Rend with its Storm Drain, both of these would have been an instant KO to it. I put Glastrier just for testing purposes, so you may replace it with a broken Ferrothorn.

Dracozolt
:dracozolt: :raikou: :genesect: :rillaboom: :dragapult: :zapdos:
https://pokepast.es/318e6eb7ca06c51d
After freeing Dracozolt and Dracovish in AAA Doubles, I decided to test out if they are broken or not within the power level that DLC2 has provided.

They were fine, at least so far. Even without Storm Drain or Lightning Rod, a Grass-type could easily check them along with other stuff like Triage. And as usual, I'm not impressed by Dracoish, so I'm using Dracozolt instead.

Obviously, Dracozolt goes with Raikou, who essentially is a more offensive-oriented Tapu Koko and Dracozolt goes well with Surge Surfer doubling its speed under Electric Terrain, allowing it to take better advantage of Bolt Beak. The team has Genesect and Rillaboom to check opposing Ground-type. Genesect happens to have Mold Breaker in case of Thick Fat users such as Amoonguss or Zygarde. Since Rillaboom does not have Grassy Surge and having Intimidate instead, I opted for Drum Beating for speed control. Dragapult is Dragapult, it hits hard with Sheer Force. I go for Thunderbolt instead of Draco Meteor because it pairs well with Electric Terrain and to avoid being potentially screwed by Misty Terrain.

Zapdos is an interesting one. Supposedly, it acts as an alternative for Dracozolt striking hard with Bolt Beak with its Prankster Tailwind. But Dracozolt usually never last long to take advantage of it and Zapdos instead becoming a solid win-con on its own with Prankster Roost. Prankster is ridiculous in AAA Doubles, I can tell you that. Still, the team suffers from sharing the same weaknesses (Fairy, Ground, and especially Ice), so you may want to replace one Pokemon with another.
 
Last edited:
I think Eviolite/Dauntless Shield Chansey is pretty underrated in the StAAAbmons metagame. With full defense investment, it hits 267 def. That allows it to take physical hits that aren't (band + rain) surging strikes or Choice Banded V-Create in sun - which no defensive mon takes without using its ability, and is better countered with opposing weathers. It is weak to knock off - but isn't taking much damage from it - though that often means an offensive threat from your opponents' team has to take a Glare. On top of that, it has a lot of defensive synergy with Regenvest Magearna, provided that the rest of your team can stop their few checks - and this metagame has a huge focused on countering Magearna sets and other walls, and countering the sets that counter those sets.

Calcs:
252+ Atk Choice Band Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Close Combat vs. +1 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 572-674 (81.3 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - Max attack Banded Urshifu can't KO with its coverage move or under sun, giving you a chance to paralyze it. Effectively walls variants without significant power multipliers like CB, adaptability, etc.

252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Landorus-Therian Precipice Blades vs. +1 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 376-444 (53.4 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - Worst case against Lando-T it can tank the hit and paralyze as well. Choice Band Lando tends to be less of a threat than faster variants, imo, as usually any offensive threat in the metagame can outspeed it and take it out. Without CB, you can completely wall Landorus, status it, and TP out.

On top of that, its improved special defense from eviolite means that it takes special hits slightly better than Blissey, which really only affects some niche sets. Outside of hyper offense matchups where Regenerator Blissey can more easily last throughout a match, I think this set is better for balance teams, and more easily deals with staples like Choiced Glacial Lances from Weavile.
 

anaconja

DUHH PUPLE FOG!!!DUHH BURPLE FROG???PURPLE FROG!!!
is a Tiering Contributor
Now that the Magearna suspect is over I'd like to call to attention some other things that could be next.

:sm/latios:
This mon is pretty crazy, having two incredibly powerful STABs in Dragon Energy/Clanging Scales and Psystrike/Expanding Force for Dragon's Maw and Psychic Surge, respectfully, makes it incredibly hard to switch into defensively. Magearna is an option (though magpullers are on the rise thanks to its prevalence), and I've had to use weird shit like Misty Surge Umbreon or Regenvest Oranguru to reliably come in.

:sm/landorus-therian:
Same story, Precipice Blades + Dragon Ascent + Adaptability leaves only Celesteela/defensive Zapdos/Corviknight/Skarmory as reliable defensive checks. Even then, it has tech in Gravity/Smack Down to nullify Ground immunities. Its sets being mostly choiced should allow for defensive Regenerator pivots to scout it but Choice Band is a hell of a drug (252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Landorus-Therian Precipice Blades vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 278-328 (81 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery). Although its relatively low speed keeps it somewhat in check on the offensive side, it takes advantage of any free switch it gets.

:sm/togekiss::sm/tornadus:

Triage is very hard to deal with for offensive teams because its abusers can easily wipe out a whole team with the longevity of Oblivion Wing and the power of Nasty Plot. It often forces these archetypes to use fat (and passive) walls like Chansey/Blissey to wall it, or a DQM user to revenge it. The latter has significant drawbacks - using DQM means that you miss out on an attack-boosting ability and important 2HKOs and OHKOs, and often serves little to no important purpose if the opponent is not using Triage. On the other hand, Psychic Surge users or sturdy Flying resists like Zapdos and Rotom formes can limit its presence.

:sm/chansey::sm/blissey:
probably not suspectable but i gotta say, godDAMN teleport is a pain in the ass on these mfers, thanks game freak

edit: rip the dream
Urshifu @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Darkest Lariat
- Octolock
- Obstruct

Urshifu @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Jaw Lock
- Power Trip / Drain Punch / Poison Jab
- No Retreat
- Obstruct / Poison Jab
 
Last edited:
Magearna remains legal in STAAABmons!

With that out of the way, we can get to some tiering decisions the council discussed during the Mage suspect, but didn't want to announce until it was finished so as to not influence any votes. TLDR at the bottom.

Astral Barrage and Glacial Lance are now restricted in STAAABmons.
Barrage is a very powerful move that significantly changes calcs compared to Moongeist Beam, which makes checking special ghosts with splashable mons significantly harder than it used to be, requiring dedicated counters instead. For example, AV Magearna, the iconic blanket special check has a chance to be ohkod by +2 adaptability life orb spectrier.

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Spectrier Astral Barrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 322-380 (88.4 - 104.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

Lance is even more powerful. In combination with Adaptability, it lets certain ice types easily 2hko non def invested resists, while breaking physically defensive resists with minimal chip damage.

252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Weavile Glacial Lance vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Magearna: 177-209 (48.6 - 57.4%) -- 50.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Weavile Glacial Lance vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tapu Fini: 177-209 (51.4 - 60.7%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Not even a dedicated physical wall like Dauntless Skarm can stand up to it.

252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Weavile Glacial Lance vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 152-180 (45.5 - 53.8%) -- 44.9% chance to 2HKO

And this is just Weavile, I won't even talk about Mamoswine who is only really walled by Levitate Mage.

Additionally, the council has decided to fix some past tiering decisions.
1) In the past, we hard banned Wicked Blow and kept Urshifu-S legal, but now that we got a ladder and alot more exposure to the metagame this decision turned out to be causing confusion for a good number of players, so we decided to change it. As of now, Urshifu Single Strike is banned from STAAABmons and Wicked Blow is restricted. Urshifu Rapid and Surging strikes will remain legal for now.
2) Landorus-I has been banned in STAAABmons ever since the beginning of DLC 2 - for no real reason, as it's inferior to Lando T in most regards. Therefore, Landorus-I is now unbanned.
3) Not really an oversight just an inconsistency - Darmanitan-Galar is currently banned on the ladder, but this is not intended as it's not on our banlist. So I'd ask our coders to unban it as well when they implement the other changes.

Code:
/tour new [Gen 8] STABmons, Elimination
/tour rules !Obtainable Abilities, -Arena Trap, -Comatose, -Contrary, -Fluffy, -Fur Coat, -Gorilla Tactics, -Huge Power, -Ice Scales, -Illusion, -Imposter, -Innards Out, -Intrepid Sword, -Libero, -Moody, -Neutralizing Gas, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Simple, -Stakeout, -Speed Boost, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, -Shedinja, 2 Ability Clause, *Transform, *No Retreat, *V-create, -Hypnosis, -Sing, -Sleep Powder, +Darmanitan, +Darmanitan-Galar, +Dracovish, +Gengar, +Porygon-Z, -Keldeo, -Terrakion, *Wicked Blow, -Zeraora, -Chandelure, -Melmetal, -Electrify, -Volcarona, -Blacephalon, -Dragonite, -Tapu Koko, -Thundurus, -Archeops, -Zygarde, -Regigigas, +Zygarde-10%, -Tinted Lens, *Glacial Lance, +Landorus, -Urshifu, +Urshifu-Rapid-Strike
/tour autostart 10
/tour autodq 4
/tour name [Gen 8] STABmons + Almost Any Ability

TLDR:
Restrict Astral Barrage, Glacial Lance, Wicked Blow.
Ban Urshifu-Single-Strike
Unban Landorus-I, Darmanitan-Galar

Tagging The Immortal and Kris to implement this.
 
Last edited:
So this thread is kinda death huh, but on that same with the format AAA Ubers. There a few things i personally want to suggest on how to move forward with the format since it had alot of good feedback in terms of people enjoying the tier from what i have heared. So here a couple of things i want to mention rq

:calyrex_shadow:
This mon is clearly broken. Caly forces u to run av regen yveltal which is its only real counter btw. It can run sets from Tinted Lens, Adaptability to even pheal sub disable. But the point i wanna bring over is the fact that it makes building really really stale and even then caly is able to break shit with ez if ur not Overprepping for it like having a yveltal av regen+a scarfer to outspeed this broken ass mon. Like look at this calc:
252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Calyrex-Shadow Astral Barrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Yveltal: 170-202 (37.2 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Its able to 2 hit ko its counter with specs with rocks up, isnt that insane to think about what happens if u switch anything else in? It just dies if u want to argue that if u are able to ohko it with sucker, u cant as easily, the reason for that is one of calys best teammates are psysurgers. Why? Cause it stops things like :marshadow: from revenging u with sneak or yveltal suckering u which u now 2 hit ko with specs when rocks are up.

Another Friend of :calyrex_shadow: is worth mentioning in this post being :urshifu:.
Again its a little to powerful for the meta even if its just one ability making it broken (being sniper). Its still mad busted and just breaks anything u might have for it. :xerneas: ? 252+ Atk Choice Band Sniper Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Xerneas on a critical hit: 180-213 (39.5 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 2 hit ko'd after rocks. Yveltal? 252+ Atk Choice Band Sniper Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Yveltal on a critical hit: 240-283 (52.7 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 2 hit ko'd. There isnt a mon who is able to counter this monster even the best defensive mons in the tier.

:kyogre:
This mon is kinda busted ngl. Being able to two hit ko the likes of av max spdef yveltal: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Yveltal in Heavy Rain: 360-424 (79.1 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Almost 2 hit ko eternatus (spdef): 252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eternatus in Heavy Rain: 183-216 (37.8 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
The only thing that stops this monster is a water absober (which can be anything from :necrozma_dusk_mane: or :groudon: to check it) but that doesnt deny the fact that it goes ham on the metagame

These 3 mons are what i would personally ban and look what happens with the format after imo. And Merry Christmas!
 
:landorus-therian: Give Yourself the Gift of Topping Ladder With These Top 5 SPICY StAAAbmons Lando-T Sets :landorus-therian:

If you like winning in pokemon, then you'll LOVE Landorus-Therian in StAAAbmons! It's a premier offensive threat versus all archetypes with the tools to exploit dedicated checks to it. Here are a few sets to show what I mean.
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Band / Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Dragon Ascent
- U-turn
- Stone Edge
Adaptability Landorus is a set everyone fears. Both Choiced options are viable; Bandorus is a nuke, and Scarf is reliable speed control that's not lacking in damage either, netting a clean 2HKO on max/max Slowbro (and by extension all other non-resists).

Before we even get to the AAA part of StAAAb, Lando is one of the Pokemon that benefits most from the STAB half of the mashup, and Adaptability takes maximum advantage of that. Its 120 BP STAB combination is problematic thanks to the fact that ALL types that resist Ground (Grass, Bug) are hit super effectively by Flying, and vice-versa (Electric, Steel, Rock).

This means that it's not good enough to have separate Ground and Flying resists — you need a Lando resist. As anaconja points out, these are limited to Celesteela/defensive Zapdos/Corviknight/Skarmory, as well as Levitate Steels after accounting for abilities. Stone Edge is an option to deal with Zapdos, as even Max/Max is 2HKOd by Scarfed Lando. As for Steel types?
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Brave Bird
- Weather Ball
- Swords Dance
Sun-boosted Weather Ball takes care of Skarmory and seriously dents Celesteela, Corviknight, and floaty Magearna, cleanly 2HKOing through Leftovers recovery and SpD investment. Unlike most mixed breaker sets, this set is not lacking in utility versus HO thanks to Desolate Land's water-canceling ability, which allows it to switch in versus HO staples like Barraskewda and actively wall one of its most reliable answers in Swampert.

Between these two sets, the argument can be made that Landorus is unreasonably difficult to check. I'd like to show three more Landorus sets that showcase other things Landorus can do.
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Dragon Ascent
- U-turn
- Stone Edge
Band Gale Wings Dragon Ascent is a very strong mixup that destroys offensive and teams that rely on outspeeding Landorus to revenge it. Having to keep Lando at 100% to abuse its ability is a drawback for sure, but priority this strong should never be underestimated, especially when it is impossible to expect or scout for.
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Soft Sand
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Dragon Ascent
- Swords Dance
- Smack Down
As long as trapping is legal, might as well, right?

It feels like cheating to put a MagPull set on a top 5 list, since anything with access to a Ground/Fire/Fighting move can sort of function as a trapper, but Landorus is a premier abuser of the ability. It outspeeds and OHKOs all relevant ground-weak Steels, 1v1s Ferrothorn, and thanks to Smack Down it now beats airborne Steels.
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Dragon Ascent
- Spikes
- Swords Dance / Stealth Rock
Last but not least in the series of "Lando Does It Better," here's a simple spike lead set. Lando forces the opponent to play carefully around it, giving ample opportunities to set up hazards. Mold Breaker bypasses not only Magic Guard but also Levitate, which is very relevant for any Ground type. Focus Sash is an irritating mixup that can surprise a pokemon looking to outspeed and kill.

:landorus-therian:

Let's take a step back. Landorus a Pokemon that can 2HKO all but the most dedicated counters with a Scarf set, but can also abuse the same counters with a different and equally viable mixed LO set. It can cheese with Gale Wings and trap with Magnet Pull, or it can play support with a hazards set. StAAAbmons is a nutty tier, but this is a mon that is nuttier than normal. It is ultra-nutty, and I would go as far as to say that it is broken. I would strongly encourage those in charge of the tier to look into voting on suspecting or banning it.

But, before they do that, be sure to use any of these sets for yourself on ladder. Enjoy!

https://pokepast.es/df63b7c359c9e948
 
Why I think Triage should be restricted in stAAAbmon

Before i get started, i just want to remind that this is just my opinion. I’m not here to tell you what to think and it’s 100% ok to disagree with me. with that out of the way, let’s begin.



When you see triage for the first time, it only seems like a poor-man’s prankster that only applies to recovery move. I’m pretty sure that’s what we all thought the first time we read the triage description. Except that the ability does so much more than that. It gives the same priority level as fake out (which is +3, the highest priority level for an offensive move in the game) to every single draining move. Fake out being +3 is fine since it’s only usable the first turn your pokemon is on the field and it’s a normal type 40 bp move. But in an OM that allows your pokemon to have the ability they want (which are AAA, but triage is much more manageable there, and stAAAbmons), triage becomes problematic. Here’s why:

In OU, triage is restricted to Comfey, a fairy type with 82 SpA and with only draining kiss and giga drain to abuse its ability. In staaab, triage users are quite a bit different. Togekiss is the main one and it might be the most problematic but it is not alone. Buzzwole, magearna, rotom and pretty much any flying type with a good SpA stat are really good abusers. But let’s talk about togekiss in itself since it’s the main one. A fairy-flying type (which is already a very good type both offensively and defensively) with a very excellent bulk of 85/95/115 which makes it bulkier than incineroar and with an excellent SpA of 120 and an ok speed of 80. Looks like a good pokemon but nothing ground breaking until you consider this: it has access to nasty plot, oblivion wing, draining kiss/moonblast, aura sphere/fire blast. You’ve got a pokemon with barely less SpA than hydreigon that can fire a 80bp stab with +3 priority, and it’s not like flying type was a bad offensive type. And did i mention that the move heals the user of ¾ the damage it inflicted? And seeing how much damage +2 togekiss does, this is a lot of hp recovered. The calcs speak from themselves

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Triage Togekiss Oblivion Wing vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Incineroar: 181-214 (46 - 54.4%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO (36.3 - 43% recovered)

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Triage Togekiss Oblivion Wing vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 259-305 (85.1 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO (51.8 - 60.9% recovered)

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Triage Togekiss Oblivion Wing vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 226-266 (34.7 - 40.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 34.7 - 40.8% (45.4 - 53.4% recovered) blissey cannot out damage the oblivion heal with stoss

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Triage Togekiss Oblivion Wing vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Victini: 352-415 (87.1 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

What about stuff that resists flying type?

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Triage Togekiss Oblivion Wing vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Magearna: 156-183 (42.8 - 50.2%) -- 1.6% chance to 2HKO

+0 252+ SpA Life Orb Togekiss Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Magearna: 234-276 (64.2 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Togekiss Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Heatran: 346-408 (89.6 - 105.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock



Sure, those are not some crazy damage calc. They are high but togekiss is far from being a wall breaker. But the problem isn’t that Togekiss is hard to wall (although it’s not an easy task either), the problem is everything that isn’t a wall. Remember that +3 prio is the highest prio level for an offensive move and can only be accessed through fake out and triage. So every pokemon that isn’t triage itself and outspeeds togekiss must take a stab oblivion wings modest life orb in the face before they can do anything to togekiss. So you gotta have something that lives 2 oblivion wings (1 on the switch and 1 before attacking) and that can kill togekiss that is, as said previously, bulkier than incineroar. If your attack doesn’t kill, well you just lost a pokemon and the opposing togekiss will quickly heal back up to full health by decimating the rest of your team.

And this is only for togekiss. Rotom logic is the same but just more unpredictable with much more coverage options and good flexibility on the type with just less base SpA. AAA players already know the power of triage buzzwole. Triage by its nature renders irrelevent the speed and is faster than other priority moves. Ignoring the speed of the opposing pokemon is far from being unheard of: Trick Room does just that and other prio moves completely skip that step. But trick room still let’s priority moves intact and other prios are just 40 bp except for sucker punch (that fails if it gets outprio’d) and extreme speed, which is restricted.
But surely there must be counter-options to triage, you may say and indeed they exist.

-Dazzling/Queenly Majesty users are straight up immuned any priority moves.
-Psychic Terrain immunes every grounded pokemon to priority, but only lasts 5 turns.
-Liquid Ooze, effective at punishing triage but doesn’t immune the user to it and it’s gimmicky.
-Walls
-Using triage yourself, but this is not an argument. We could say the same of Galar Darmanitan if it was unbanned in OU.

If counter-options exist, triage is all fair and balanced, right? Not exactly. Dazzling is common on Weavile but since glacial lance ban, it’s not that popular anymore and other users aren’t really frequent. Psychic terrain is very common on the ever-present latios but it is about the only user with the rare alakazam and metagross. Liquid Ooze is a gimmick and walls are walls. So, if indeed counter-options there are, they are not really common apart from latios and walls in general.
Triage offers terrific speed/prio control while healing its user and the simple fact that it is legit allows for crazy bluff to happen. You never know if the opposing tapu fini has draining kiss, if moltres has oblivion, if kommo-o has drain punch. If you are low in health or weak to a potential triage move, even if you outspeed or use a prio, you may lose the very exchange you should have won. Sure, pokemon is a game of risk/reward, and many games have been lost due to a missed stone edge or a critical hit. But Triage isn’t random like crits and misses. Any given player can use the simple fact that the ability is legal to its advantage without even using it on its team.



It’s for all those reasons that I think Triage is too powerful and therefore may deserve to be suspected, restricted or, at least, watched in stAAAbmons.



P.S: During the past months, I acquired a good amount of knowledge on staaab and managed to reach top 10 of the ladder with 2 different accounts (MSAS emile blue, which has dropped out of it when i’m writing this, and Emile red, which is atm first of the ladder). I don’t think I’m the best and I have still a lot to learn, but I think I’m probably one of the best. So perhaps I’m not quite right on everything, but I highly doubt that I’m wrong.
 
Last edited:
Why I think Triage should be restricted in stAAAbmon

Before i get started, i just want to remind that this is just my opinion. I’m not here to tell you what to think and it’s 100% ok to disagree with me. with that out of the way, let’s begin.



When you see triage for the first time, it only seems like a poor-man’s prankster that only applies to recovery move. I’m pretty sure that’s what we all thought the first time we read the triage description. Except that the ability does so much more than that. It gives the same priority level as fake out (which is +3, the highest priority level for an offensive move in the game) to every single draining move. Fake out being +3 is fine since it’s only usable the first turn your pokemon is on the field and it’s a normal type 40 bp move. But in an OM that allows your pokemon to have the ability they want (which are AAA, but triage is much more manageable there, and stAAAbmons), triage becomes problematic. Here’s why:

In OU, triage is restricted to Comfey, a fairy type with 82 SpA and with only draining kiss and giga drain to abuse its ability. In staaab, triage users are quite a bit different. Togekiss is the main one and it might be the most problematic but it is not alone. Buzzwole, magearna, rotom and pretty much any flying type with a good SpA stat are really good abusers. But let’s talk about togekiss in itself since it’s the main one. A fairy-flying type (which is already a very good type both offensively and defensively) with a very excellent bulk of 85/95/115 which makes it bulkier than incineroar and with an excellent SpA of 120 and an ok speed of 80. Looks like a good pokemon but nothing ground breaking until you consider this: it has access to nasty plot, oblivion wing, draining kiss/moonblast, aura sphere/fire blast. You’ve got a pokemon with barely less SpA than hydreigon that can fire a 80bp stab with +3 priority, and it’s not like flying type was a bad offensive type. And did i mention that the move heals the user of ¾ the damage it inflicted? And seeing how much damage +2 togekiss does, this is a lot of hp recovered. The calcs speak from themselves

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Triage Togekiss Oblivion Wing vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Incineroar: 181-214 (46 - 54.4%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO (36.3 - 43% recovered)

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Triage Togekiss Oblivion Wing vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 259-305 (85.1 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
(51.8 - 60.9% recovered)

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Triage Togekiss Oblivion Wing vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 226-266 (34.7 - 40.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 34.7 - 40.8% (45.4 - 53.4% recovered) blissey cannot out damage the oblivion heal with stoss

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Triage Togekiss Oblivion Wing vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Victini: 352-415 (87.1 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

What about stuff that resists flying type?

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Triage Togekiss Oblivion Wing vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Magearna: 156-183 (42.8 - 50.2%) -- 1.6% chance to 2HKO

+0 252+ SpA Life Orb Togekiss Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Magearna: 234-276 (64.2 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Togekiss Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Heatran: 346-408 (89.6 - 105.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock



Sure, those are not some crazy damage calc. They are high but togekiss is far from being a wall breaker. But the problem isn’t that Togekiss is hard to wall (although it’s not an easy task either), the problem is everything that isn’t a wall. Remember that +3 prio is the highest prio level for an offensive move and can only be accessed through fake out and triage. So every pokemon that isn’t triage itself and outspeeds togekiss must take a stab oblivion wings modest life orb in the face before they can do anything to togekiss. So you gotta have something that lives 2 oblivion wings (1 on the switch and 1 before attacking) and that can kill togekiss that is, as said previously, bulkier than incineroar. If your attack doesn’t kill, well you just lost a pokemon and the opposing togekiss will quickly heal back up to full health by decimating the rest of your team.

And this is only for togekiss. Rotom logic is the same but just more unpredictable with much more coverage options and good flexibility on the type with just less base SpA. AAA players already know the power of triage buzzwole. Triage by its nature renders irrelevent the speed and is faster than other priority moves. Ignoring the speed of the opposing pokemon is far from being unheard of: Trick Room does just that and other prio moves completely skip that step. But trick room still let’s priority moves intact and other prios are just 40 bp except for sucker punch (that fails if it gets outprio’d) and extreme speed, which is restricted.
But surely there must be counter-options to triage, you may say and indeed they exist.

-Dazzling/Queenly Majesty users are straight up immuned any priority moves.
-Psychic Terrain immunes every grounded pokemon to priority, but only lasts 5 turns.
-Liquid Ooze, effective at punishing triage but doesn’t immune the user to it and it’s gimmicky.
-Walls
-Using triage yourself, but this is not an argument. We could say the same of Galar Darmanitan if it was unbanned in OU.

If counter-options exist, triage is all fair and balanced, right? Not exactly. Dazzling is common on Weavile but since glacial lance ban, it’s not that popular anymore and other users aren’t really frequent. Psychic terrain is very common on the ever-present latios but it is about the only user with the rare alakazam and metagross. Liquid Ooze is a gimmick and walls are walls. So, if indeed counter-options there are, they are not really common apart from latios and walls in general.
Triage offers terrific speed/prio control while healing its user and the simple fact that it is legit allows for crazy bluff to happen. You never know if the opposing tapu fini has draining kiss, if moltres has oblivion, if kommo-o has drain punch. If you are low in health or weak to a potential triage move, even if you outspeed or use a prio. Sure, pokemon is a game of risk/reward, and many games have been lost due to a missed stone edge or a critical hit. But Triage isn’t random like crits and misses. Any given player can use the simple fact that the ability is legal to its advantage without even using it on its team.



It’s for all those reasons that I think Triage is too powerful and therefore may deserve to be suspected, restricted or, at least, watched in stAAAbmons.



P.S: During the past months, I acquired a good amount of knowledge on staaab and managed to reach top 10 of the ladder with 2 different accounts (MSAS emile blue, which has dropped out of it when i’m writing this, and Emile red, which is atm #10). I don’t think I’m the best and far from that, but I think I’m probably one of the best. So perhaps I’m not quite right on everything, but I highly doubt that I’m wrong.
Now that the Magearna suspect is over I'd like to call to attention some other things that could be next.

:sm/latios:
This mon is pretty crazy, having two incredibly powerful STABs in Dragon Energy/Clanging Scales and Psystrike/Expanding Force for Dragon's Maw and Psychic Surge, respectfully, makes it incredibly hard to switch into defensively. Magearna is an option (though magpullers are on the rise thanks to its prevalence), and I've had to use weird shit like Misty Surge Umbreon or Regenvest Oranguru to reliably come in.

:sm/landorus-therian:
Same story, Precipice Blades + Dragon Ascent + Adaptability leaves only Celesteela/defensive Zapdos/Corviknight/Skarmory as reliable defensive checks. Even then, it has tech in Gravity/Smack Down to nullify Ground immunities. Its sets being mostly choiced should allow for defensive Regenerator pivots to scout it but Choice Band is a hell of a drug (252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Landorus-Therian Precipice Blades vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 278-328 (81 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery). Although its relatively low speed keeps it somewhat in check on the offensive side, it takes advantage of any free switch it gets.

:sm/togekiss::sm/tornadus:

Triage is very hard to deal with for offensive teams because its abusers can easily wipe out a whole team with the longevity of Oblivion Wing and the power of Nasty Plot. It often forces these archetypes to use fat (and passive) walls like Chansey/Blissey to wall it, or a DQM user to revenge it. The latter has significant drawbacks - using DQM means that you miss out on an attack-boosting ability and important 2HKOs and OHKOs, and often serves little to no important purpose if the opponent is not using Triage. On the other hand, Psychic Surge users or sturdy Flying resists like Zapdos and Rotom formes can limit its presence.

:sm/chansey::sm/blissey:
probably not suspectable but i gotta say, godDAMN teleport is a pain in the ass on these mfers, thanks game freak

edit: rip the dream
Urshifu @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Darkest Lariat
- Octolock
- Obstruct

Urshifu @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Jaw Lock
- Power Trip / Drain Punch / Poison Jab
- No Retreat
- Obstruct / Poison Jab
As promised, my more detailed response and my reply to anaconja's post:

1) Triage

This ability has been a mainstay in all AAA-esque formats since its introduction in gen7 and i think its a very important element of the metagame, which is why I don't want to just ban Triage. In STAAAB specifically, the addition of Oblivion Wing changes Triage abusers to primarily special flying type mons, which is pretty much the opposite of AAA where Horn Leech, Leech Life and Drain Punch are the most common Triagable moves.

Since Owingers beat users of all three of the above moves based on typing, they aren't as common as in AAA. Additionally, you don't really have to prep for HL, LL, DP defensively - as long as you have an Oblivion Winger on your team you're safe from being swept by those. So really it's only Oblivion Wing triage that could be argued to be problematic.

2) Oblivion Wing (+ Triage)

First of all, I'm going to elaborate on my tiering philosophy in STAAAB (and I think the council, for the most part, agrees with me). Ever since I started leading the meta, my goal has been to ensure two things:

1) STAAABmons should be distinct enough from AAA (and to a lesser extent STABmons) to warrant playing
2) It's ok if the meta is not perfectly balanced, but it must be balanced enough that people enjoy themselves when playing it

It's not always easy to fulfill both requirements, as the things that make it distinct from AAA are usually combinations offered by the supercharged offensive moves offered by STABmons or utility sets made possible by the addition of hazards, removal, recovery and various status moves. The former is usually the issue - Primal Weather/Dmaw + Specs Erupt/Spout/Dragon Energy, Dragon Ascent/Surging Strikes/Moongeist/Sunsteel + Adapt etc. But despite that, I think we've been doing an ok job so far.

STAAAB more closely resembles AAA than STABmons because ability substitutions (more) fundamentally change a mon's role, as opposed to STAB move additions which often just give mons an upgrade - letting them fulfill their role better. With that in mind, we can look at STAAAB as AAA base with STAB mechanics added on. Looking at it that way, it's easy to see that most of the added power that pushes mons into broken territory comes from powerful STAB moves being added. This leads us to an issue however - if we ban all (or most of) the moves that differentiate STAAAB from AAA we are in danger of just reverting STAAAB into AAA + a few utility moves, which is imo a very bad idea, as at that point there really is no reason to play STAAAB anymore - just play AAA. This is why STAAAB will always be a bit less balanced than AAA, even if all the same mons are banned. We hope to counterbalance that by letting people use strategies and combinations that aren't possible in standalone AAA or STAB. Some of these combinations are the following:

- MGLO + Head Smash/Mind Blown and to a lesser extent Brave Bird/Flare Blitz/Steel Beam
- the already mentioned primal weather
- Triage + Oblivion Wing
- Specs Moongeist + *insert ability*
- Psysurge Eforce on the good psychics
- Doom Desire on regenvest steels
- Surging Strikes + Technician/Psea
- Gale Wings + Dragon Ascent
- various utility moves letting defensive mons tech a non recovery ability
- etc.

These are the things that define STAAAB, which is why I'm very hesitant to remove any of them without being completely sure that they are format warping to a ridiculous extent.
This is what happened with Wicked blow for example - it invalidated a massive portion of the splashable counterplay and really made games unplayable so it had to go. Same goes (imo) for Glacial Lance and Astral, as they pressured blanket checks too hard when combined w Adaptability.

You do, however, bring up a good point that the banning of Glance means Dazzling Weavile is much less powerful than before, which means that Triage + Owing should be looked at a bit more closely. At the same time though, I do believe there's good counterplay for it. Psysurge is very strong and splashable since Chansey is the premier special wall and spd pivot + Psysurge will never lose to triage. SPD rotoms with spectral thief should also beat Owingers, as does FF magearna and most specially bulky unawares for the most part. Most owingers other than Togekiss are also checked by Tyranitar. Other Rock types work too.

3) Latios

I do agree that Latios is pretty crazy. Luckily its speed tier isnt the greatest contextually so it's relatively easy to force out, but there's no doubt that it pressures teams without Magearna incredibly hard. Tyranitar is another good soft check and most steels should do a decent enough job, but that doesn't mean its not ridiculously powerful. Altho honestly, with the amount of priority in the meta i find it had to actually use non Psysurge Latios and when i do use Psysurge, I always regret not being able to run priority on my team. So while it is quite splashable, you do lose out on Triage/Gale Wings and have to secure speed control in some other way.

4) Landorus

I agree with everything you said and not even levitate steels/flying resistant birds are really safe since you can tech gravity on it. I could definitely see a Lando-T ban down the line and then an evaluation on whether Lando-I is strong enough to also warrant banning.

Hopefully this post offers some insight into our approach to balancing this metagame.
 
Last edited:
Now that dazz Weavile's spot is on thin ice (get it?) for an anti triage mon, i think that some theorymoning is due

Heliolisk @ Choice Specs/Choice Scarf/Heavy-Duty Boots/Life Orb
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Boomburst
- Surf/Grass Knot/Rapid Spin/Dark Pulse/Recover/ a lot more

Xurkitree @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Energy Ball
- Dazzling Gleam

I believe in dazz electrics. Dazz mons werent breaking any walls even with sd and I think that a pivoting move is great for mons meant to force out other mons. The two main options are Xurkitree and Heliolisk both with their pros and cons.

Xurk has instant power but it is requiered to run scarf to threaten the mons it needs to and it cant do anything to electric inmunities, which is an issue given that Landorus I has just been unbanned, while Helio has a lot more freedom with its item slot and last moveslot unlike Xurk that has them set in stone, as well as being able to threaten grounds and non steel electric inmunities with bburst, and can even opt to run U-Turn over Volt Switch if you are willing to give away actually chipping mons for not getting volt blocked. The proble with it that its stats arent the best: 109 Spa can make it feel weak at times , urging you to run LO or Specs, and its speed tier is weird and most importantly it gets outsped by both Tornadus forms, meaning it can get ko'd by the ocational focus blast or a boosted heat wave, urging you to run scarf

Both Jolteon and Regieleki have the same issue: they need abilities to actually have some sort of coverage. From the two I'd run specs dazz jolt but unboosted xurk hits a close spa as specs jolt, and xurk hits a lot of important speed tiers with scarf that jolt doesnt, so its kinda outclassed
 
In regards to SnM (Stabmons+Mix and Mega for any newcomers) i personally think one of my favourite overall mons to use Necrozma-Dusk Mane has been overlooked quite a substantial amount due to all the new releases and everyone wanting to try new mons with different stones out, this absolute behemoth of a pokemon can take hits just as good as many other defensive mons can and also dish out the same amount of damage that most offensive mons can too.

Its versatility can be extremely helpful when teambuilding and for giving a solid backbone to almost any play-style, that being stall (my preference), balance, bulky offence and even hyper offence. Its coverage and movepool options are drastically better than most other defensive mons due to its original movepool and the addition of ghost stab from necrozma dawn wings.


Here are 4 personal sets ive crafted for each type of team.
stall (Necrozma-Dusk-Mane) @ Rocky Helmet / Leftovers
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Toxic
- Morning Sun
- Teleport
- Stealth Rock

balance (Necrozma-Dusk-Mane) @ Rocky Helmet / Leftovers
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spectral Thief
- Morning Sun
- Teleport
- Doom Desire / Sunsteel Strike

BO (Necrozma-Dusk-Mane) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Atk / 60 Def
Impish Nature
- Poltergeist
- Morning Sun
- Earthquake
- Sunsteel Strike

HO (Necrozma-Dusk-Mane) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Sunsteel Strike
- Earthquake
- Poltergeist
Overall this mon is stupidly good on most teams and i think it needs more usage over other things due to its frankly insane bulk+prism armor and its vast movepool supporting any type of set you want for it
 

Ransei

is a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributor
Other Metas Leader
Hey. It's been a while since I last posted here. Today, I come with what is the last major announcement post I'm making as a leader in OM Mashups. I am stepping down from the OM Mashups Co-Leader position; not that this matters very much at this point. I'll explain further down the line of this post.

I'm impressed with how far this community has gotten. You've all been killing it. I never foresaw the amount of success we've peaked up to and it's amazing. We've had about 43 pages worth of posts as of current, above 60 users in the public subroom, a couple successful month ladders, and continuous ongoing trends made for everyone to feel more welcomed in our community. It couldn't have been done without you all. We've had an active, dedicated playerbase since the beginning who've all led to us reaching many big milestones. I remember hoping we'd get a hidden subroom and hit 50 users one day and thought that was the most it could go. I could not appreciate you all enough.

I am going to be honest. From late 2017 to early 2018, I was at a low point on Smogon and PS. As a person who was just a long-time roommod in Other Metas and Anything Goes, I really disliked all of the available standard OM formats I used to enjoy back in Gen 6. I felt they all introduced or changed moves, items, and battle mechanics in ways that almost entirely worsened the quality and even competitiveness of nearly every format in the gen, and none of the OM format leaders were able to adjust to these changes in order to improve their metagame's gameplay quality. This was something I've eventually noticed to even be spreading into official tiers such as OU and Ubers, as everyone wanted as much of Gen 7 in as they could; even in its worst aspects. I singled myself to only playing Anything Goes at one point, which eventually felt like self-torture. It got to the point where I ended up desperately searching for some Gen 7 ladder format to really enjoy and started looking outside of OM formats. Doubles OU and Doubles Ubers were good options for my personal taste but I never wanted to get too deep into the formats as that would've abandoned all I had done in Other Metas. Other Metas was where I began and remained throughout my entire tenure on Smogon and Pokemon Showdown. It was and is essentially my home. In the beginning I felt I never needed anywhere else to go but only to places in which OM formats could be expanded. I felt this even with my all-time favorite format having been shut down and removed from receiving any sort of recognition in OM for three years. Despite this, I eventually ended up feeling lost. I felt I could no longer fit in with the community. I made contributions, but could not see myself getting anything off them, nor could find a reason to continue. On the first half of April 2018 I tried getting into Ubers. Eventually it got bland and I quit playing the metagame. After having done so, I spent a couple of days wondering on how I was going to progress. I didn't know where I was going, but I wanted to start over from scratch and search for a place where I could find a format to fully immerse myself in and partake in a community for. In hindsight, this was likely going to be either UU or Doubles. By April 21st 2018, I had fully made a plan to step down from my OM Roomstaff and submission QC positions. It included an exact date, which would have been on my 4th-year PS anniversary. Nobody knew of this as I kept it a secret. All I was doing at this point was waiting.

Three weeks later, on my 18th birthday, I got hit with a surprise. I was told by drampa's grandpa to look into OM Submissions. What I saw was a shed of new light. There it was; the OM Mashups Megathread. OM Mashups originated in 2014 but at the time, it only had a small list of formats and a lack of activity. drampa's grandpa was actively searching around in the closed OM forums looking for any concept he thought could be revived. From it he found OM Mashups! The Megathread in submissions had a bigger list of formats to start off with, including old ones I enjoyed in the distant past; ones that have not been available for discussion or play in years, and formats I have never seen before, but looked enjoyable. However, what stood out the most was the return of my favorite format; the format I spent years obsessing on and talking about in the OM community and the format of which brought me over to Other Metagames in the first place. Pure Hackmons was back and it was accepted! This not only became the format that brought me over, but now the format that kept me in. I immediately shut down the entire plan I had of stepping down and saw a new hope for opportunities in Other Metagames! From that point on instead of waiting until my 4th PS anniversary to leave, I waited very eagerly for the Megathread to be released. After some time of the thread being worked on and a few weeks of waiting, the Megathread was finally released! I sprung into action right away and did everything I could to give Pure Hackmons a great start in revival. I also tried to dig into a mix of other OM Mashups. 10 days after the Megathread was released I was thinking:
  • All of these formats required custom rulesets and were part of a vastly unique category of OMs.
  • The OM room was not keen on using custom rulesets in its room tournaments.
  • OM Mashups would not be able to fit in with regular OM topics very well as they were an incredibly new breed of formats that have just been introduced to the community.
  • They would not receive much attention from the main room as OM permaladder formats and OMotM/LCotM formats would overlap OM Mashup discussion.
After having these thoughts in my mind I, very suddenly, created the first groupchat for OM Mashups. I wanted to give Pure Hackmons and all other OM Mashups a definite home. They needed a place where they could thrive in custom banlist tours and be well-discussed in chatroom conversions. The OM Mashups groupchat left a whole new world of opportunities and not long after creating it I started to create all sorts of different tour rulesets. This was a world where we could build rulesets that made the metagame more fitting and enjoyable, without the pressure of standing as major formats and having to go through weeks of discussion before something finally looked into and banned. I wanted to get the development of every official Mashup kicking and introduce newer ones to the table. drampa's grandpa significantly helped in this regard and took over many of the unclaimed official mashups out there. From there, all we needed was an active playerbase. A discord server was also created to help accommodate the community.

Surprisingly, Mashups got attention real quickly from the groupchat and we've managed to get dedicated users who refused to let the groupchat die off. Throughout the course of months the groupchat would consistently stay up for at least a week and exceed that very frequently. Sometimes it even lasted a full month! Roldski32 and CringeMeta were our OGs who kept the groupchat alive during Showdown's most dead hours each day! CringeMeta also helped us out significantly by implementing a bot, creating a side server, and making it easier to use many of our tour rulesets while Roldski frequently makes some of the highest quality posts on the Megathread. As time passed we've only grown bigger and lasted longer as a groupchat. After several months of complimenting its activity we finally managed to turn Mashups into a full-fledged subroom of Other Metagames! However, in the case of drampa and I, our activity in Mashups started to drift away. drampa got busier with irl overall. I have a somewhat different story.

On December 25th 2018, I was promoted to Global Driver on Showdown. Because I've had a lot of experience staffing public rooms and side servers in the past, I really found care in the PS community, and Showdown was pretty much my life for the past several years, being a part of the main server's global staff team was something I was extremely fond of. I had an enormous burning fire in my heart to go all out and become as great of a staff member as I could be. Admittedly it was even overboard at some point as in the beginning. This noticeably affected my overall activity in all the public rooms I was in. A couple months later I got Global Mod then realized I left everything else in the dust for a bit so I tried taking steps to slow down. I then realized I was quickly becoming less and less involved in OM Mashups. This was what led me to create the Ranshop team project, as it was a way for me to feel like I was still actively engaging in the mashups community. Throughout the following months, my activity in mashups was still increasingly fading away and I continued to have the ever-growing passion to get rid of bad users and keep Showdown's community safe. I wanted to keep learning how to handle horrible cases on Showdown, as they come ever so often and they ruin someone else's online experiences on PS. During this time period was also when a couple roomauth stepped down from their positions. The combination of RO activity loss and lack of roomauth due to a couple of them stepping down caused the OM Mashups subroom go grow stagnant

Although we came across a point of stagnation I've noticed there were three particular users livening up the room and its activity. They were icemaster, Best Gal, and The Number Man. I started lurking behind the shadows a bit and noticed how they were becoming mashups' new carriers. A couple months later they got promoted to well-deserving roomdriver positions and carried the community much further than I could've expected from anyone. The subroom's stagnation was completely removed and we started growing significantly to the point where were still hitting room usercount records. They made connections with the Tours Plaza community and started numerous trends regarding ranshop and Absol. All of this led to people gaining an overall higher interest in OM Mashup formats. Their impact still greatly affects OM Mashups to this day and because of their leadership, OM Mashups is doing as great as it is today. All of you have definitely helped as well. You've helped build mashups into how it is now little by little and created a well-known project within Other Metas instead of another dead thread :heart:.

In late 2019 Pure Hackmons became a regular OM and moved into the general OM room. Contrary to popular belief, this did not affect my activity in OM Mashups. I was already so deep in the shadows at this point to where I was mostly just around to make announcements, give input to policy decisions, and offer help to anyone in the room when needed. In 2020 I've reached a point where I realized it's been impossible for me to get as involved in playing, tiering, and building mashups as I used to be back when I was Global Voice.

I gave my trust to the roomstaff team to help continue to run OM Mashups smoothly and what turned out was an incredibly solid team. Also, drampa's grandpa stepped down from OM Mashups Leader and The Number Man was appointed as the new OM Mashups leader several months ago. He has been running the show quite smoothly so far. My activity however, was not any different. For a while, it's been reduced to behind the scenes policy input and The Number Man has pretty much been leading by himself. I still held the OM Mashups Co-Leadership position, but I no longer had any real use of it. This post was made to clarify that there is now a new open-slot for the OM Mashups Co-Leadership position for if ever or whenever the time is right for someone to work alongside The Number Man.

I'll still be around in Mashups doing the same things I usually do. There is no real change here. It's just that those things weren't fit enough for Mashups leadership and I should clarify that someone else can take that spot in the future :blobthumbsup:.
Whenever I get the opportunity to, I may also try to build and play some of the formats occasionally just to see how they've grown. Thanks for your understanding. Happy new year everyone.
 
With STAAABMons having now official usage stats thanks to the ladder, we can use the data to create the STAAAB UU Format!

Official Usage Stats

Going by the ~4.5% cutoff that the standard tiers operate on, There would be 35 mons that would reach the threshold of "OU", while all the other mons would be UU.

+ ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +
| 1 | Magearna | 25.71926% | 25728 | 25.719% | 20588 | 26.908% |
| 2 | Heatran | 22.54733% | 22555 | 22.547% | 17254 | 22.551% |
| 3 | Latios | 21.78259% | 21790 | 21.783% | 15420 | 20.154% |
| 4 | Landorus-Therian | 21.40572% | 21413 | 21.406% | 16474 | 21.531% |
| 5 | Garchomp | 21.39373% | 21401 | 21.394% | 15509 | 20.270% |
| 6 | Weavile | 21.27077% | 21278 | 21.271% | 16191 | 21.162% |
| 7 | Tapu Fini | 16.94324% | 16949 | 16.943% | 13699 | 17.905% |
| 8 | Buzzwole | 16.92225% | 16928 | 16.922% | 12850 | 16.795% |
| 9 | Zapdos | 15.58070% | 15586 | 15.581% | 12229 | 15.983% |
| 10 | Ferrothorn | 15.57171% | 15577 | 15.572% | 13168 | 17.211% |
| 11 | Urshifu-Rapid-Strike | 12.12688% | 12131 | 12.127% | 9638 | 12.597% |
| 12 | Swampert | 12.04890% | 12053 | 12.049% | 10189 | 13.317% |
| 13 | Regieleki | 9.71570% | 9719 | 9.716% | 7587 | 9.916% |
| 14 | Chansey | 9.70170% | 9705 | 9.702% | 7708 | 10.074% |
| 15 | Barraskewda | 9.69370% | 9697 | 9.694% | 7885 | 10.306% |
| 16 | Togekiss | 9.05092% | 9054 | 9.051% | 6649 | 8.690% |
| 17 | Gengar | 8.68405% | 8687 | 8.684% | 6427 | 8.400% |
| 18 | Corviknight | 7.78035% | 7783 | 7.780% | 6499 | 8.494% |
| 19 | Cresselia | 7.77636% | 7779 | 7.776% | 6578 | 8.597% |
| 20 | Victini | 7.76436% | 7767 | 7.764% | 6032 | 7.884% |
| 21 | Blissey | 7.47946% | 7482 | 7.479% | 5763 | 7.532% |
| 22 | Spectrier | 6.97563% | 6978 | 6.976% | 5125 | 6.698% |
| 23 | Toxapex | 6.85667% | 6859 | 6.857% | 5534 | 7.233% |
| 24 | Celesteela | 6.62175% | 6624 | 6.622% | 5350 | 6.992% |
| 25 | Tyranitar | 6.35884% | 6361 | 6.359% | 4976 | 6.504% |
| 26 | Moltres | 5.95498% | 5957 | 5.955% | 4574 | 5.978% |
| 27 | Kyurem | 5.31419% | 5316 | 5.314% | 3765 | 4.921% |
| 28 | Gyarados | 5.11926% | 5121 | 5.119% | 3798 | 4.964% |
| 29 | Hydreigon | 5.06928% | 5071 | 5.069% | 3659 | 4.782% |
| 30 | Excadrill | 5.06528% | 5067 | 5.065% | 3904 | 5.103% |
| 31 | Tapu Bulu | 5.03029% | 5032 | 5.030% | 3668 | 4.794% |
| 32 | Rotom-Heat | 4.89933% | 4901 | 4.899% | 3711 | 4.850% |
| 33 | Rotom-Wash | 4.79337% | 4795 | 4.793% | 3845 | 5.025% |
| 34 | Volcanion | 4.72239% | 4724 | 4.722% | 3522 | 4.603% |
| 35 | Xurkitree | 4.51646% | 4518 | 4.516% | 3277 | 4.283% |

With the usage stats in mind, here would be the code for STAAAB UU!

/tour new [Gen 8] STABmons, Elimination
/tour rules !Obtainable Abilities, -Arena Trap, -Comatose, -Contrary, -Fluffy, -Fur Coat, -Gorilla Tactics, -Huge Power, -Ice Scales, -Illusion, -Imposter, -Innards Out, -Intrepid Sword, -Libero, -Moody, -Neutralizing Gas, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Simple, -Stakeout, -Speed Boost, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, -Shedinja, 2 Ability Clause, *Transform, *No Retreat, *V-create, -Hypnosis, -Sing, -Sleep Powder, +Darmanitan, +Darmanitan-Galar, +Dracovish,+Porygon-Z, -Keldeo, -Terrakion, *Wicked Blow, -Zeraora, -Chandelure, -Melmetal, -Electrify, -Volcarona, -Blacephalon, -Dragonite, -Tapu Koko, -Thundurus, -Archeops, -Zygarde, -Regigigas, +Zygarde-10%, -Tinted Lens, *Glacial Lance, -Urshifu, +Mamoswine, -Magearna, -Heatran, -Latios, -Landorus-Therian, -Garchomp, -Weavile, -Tapu Fini, -Buzzwole, -Zapdos, -Ferrothorn, -Swampert, -Regieleki, -Chansey, -Barraskewda, -Togekiss, -Corviknight, -Cresselia, -Victini, -Blissey, -Spectrier, -Toxapex, -Celesteela, -Tyranitar, -Moltres, -Kyurem, -Gyarados, -Hydreigon, -Excadrill, -Tapu Bulu, -Rotom-Heat, -Rotom-Wash, -Volcanion, -Xurkitree
/tour autostart 10
/tour autodq 4
/tour name [Gen 8] STAAABmons UU

if there's enough interest, we can have some bans and maybe have a council down the line, but for right now this is just more of a fun and experimental tier with some mons like Noivern, Zapdos-Galar and Latias looking to be very good. Hope people have fun creating teams and playing!

PS: Thanks Ransei for all the work you did in the OMM Community and help shaping it the way it is now :heart:
 
Last edited:
SNM has been kind of dead this dlc but i wanted to point out some ban/test worthy things

1) Dragapult
With dlc 2 introducing astral barrage mixed dragapult has little to no switchins, the only really reliable switchins being mons like audinite/altarianite normal types, i feel like having to have a specific type of mon just to deal with one threat is ban/test worthy as if you dont have that specific type pairing then your team is 2hko'ed (if its mixed pult). Mons like corv and blissey that can actually live 2 hits are set up fodder if dragapult is also having ddance(unless blissey has twave/glare)

2) Mamoswine
Dlc 2 was a God send for this mon with it bringing glacial lance, a reliable ice stab thats 130 bp with no drawbacks. Precipice blades which you could honestly switch with eq if you dislike the 85% accuracy and shore up. This mon is a pain to deal with requiring something like latiosite/latiasite magearna and corviknight to count as a reliable switchin

EDIT: while writing this post i noticed that mamo was banned so enjoy my outdated rant

Another edit: s/o to shion cause i forgot corviknight

Also thank you ransei for all the work, it wouldnt be the way it is now if you didnt lend a helping hand :blobnom:
 
StAAAb UU Theorymon/Potential Threatlist
Roughly in order of threat and potential bannability.

:Rotom-Fan: Triage :Pangoro:
Rotom-Fan @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spa / 4 SpD
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Oblivion Wing
- Blue Flare
- Thunderbolt / Hydro Pump / Roost
- Nasty Plot

Pangoro @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Gunk Shot
- Swords Dance

Other Options: :Escavalier: :Rotom-Mow: :Conkeldurr::kommo-o:
+3 priority with actual bp op. Controlled by Psysurge and mayybe dazzling, but that's really it.

:Latias: Psychic Surge :Alakazam:
Alakazam @ Choice Specs
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Expanding Force
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Trick

Latias (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Expanding Force
- Dragon Energy / Draco Meteor
- Mystical Fire
- Trick

Other Options: :Espeon: :Tapu Lele: :Mew:
As we've seen from Latios, Psychic Surge (+Expanding Force) is extremely strong; Alakazam was dominating in DLC1 StAAAb too. Darks like Grimmsnarl, Umbreon, and Incin can wall them (former required for Latias), or Regenvest Steels like Jirachi or Magnezone. Ban order: Latias, then if still problematic Psychic Surge. (Expanding Force is native to most non Latias abusers)

:Salazzle: Eruption / Water Spout :Inteleon:
Inteleon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Water Spout
- Ice Beam
- Water Shuriken
- U-turn

Salazzle (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Eruption
- Sludge Wave
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp

Salazzle (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blue Flare
- Sludge Wave
- Encore / Sub
- Nasty Plot

Other Options: :Latias: :Kyurem:
Click obscene weather boosted stab, and win. Salazzle can also run SFLO Nasty Plot; Blue Flare isn't much weaker. Snorlax with opposing Rocks, various Dragons such as defensive Latias and Goodra, and waters like Milotic can try, as well as immunity ability mons like Rhydon.

:Noivern: Boomburst :Sylveon:
Noivern @ Choice Specs
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Boomburst
- Clanging Scales
- Switcheroo
- U-turn

Sylveon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Mystical Fire
- Court Change
- Recover

Other Options: :Porygon-Z: :Glaceon::porygon2:
(Were) really good mons in StAAAb OU that just aren't used that much. Regenvest Steels, Rocks like Nihilego and Diancie, and Snorlax can beat these. They beat more standard resists like Skarm easily.

:Metagross: Steelworker :Stakataka:
Metagross @ Choice Band
Ability: Steelworker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Bullet Punch
- Earthquake
- Trick

Stakataka @ Choice Band
Ability: Steelworker / Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Diamond Storm
- Heat Crash
- Earthquake / Bullet Punch / Body Press
Again, click stab, and win. Pretty fat, good type, too. Bulky Waters work in walling, and out offensing because these mons are slow (but also buky).

:Boltund: Transistor :Electivire: / :Jolteon: Electric Surge :Rotom-Mow:
Boltund @ Choice Band
Ability: Transistor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bolt Strike
- Roar

Electivire @ Choice Band
Ability: Transistor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Bolt Strike
- Ice Punch
- Flamethrower
- Earthquake

Jolteon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rising Voltage
- Hyper Voice
- Toxic
- Volt Switch

Rotom-Mow @ Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rising Voltage
- Energy Ball / Leaf Storm
- Coverage / Trick
- Volt Switch
Again, its a "click stab' that you have to hella watchout for. Boltund can also run Refrigerate Double Edge. Boltund and Jolteon both have great speed tiers, too. Ground types like Hippo and Rune wall these, with Refrigerate / PSea Jolteon / Rotom all overall weaker.

:Kyurem: Ice Types :Mamoswine:
Kyurem @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Triple Axel
- Dragon Darts
- Roost
- Dragon Dance

Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Triple Axel
- Bonemerang
- Ice Shard
- Stealth Rock

Other Options: :Glastrier: :Sneasel:| Skill Link, Adaptability
Weavile is prefered in StAAAb OU, but these mons would still put in work there. Mamoswine was a menace in pre-DLC too. Skarmory walls, and maybe bulky waters like Suicune, but that's about it. (Thick Fat too??)

:Aerodactyl: Magic Guard Cleaners:Ninjask:
Aerodactyl @ Life Orb / Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Head Smash
- Earthquake
- Brave Bird / Accelerock
- Hone Claws / Accelerock / Stealth Rock

Ninjask @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Brave Bird
- Precipice Blades
- U-turn

Other Option: :Talonflame:
Ninjask especially is really fast and can really jank stuff up - getting Ground from its prevo. Aero/Talonflame are slower but have a superior offensive typing (and Head Smash for Aero!). Despite their low attack stat, they can clean really easily.

:Suicune: Waters :Primarina:
Suicune @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Extrasensory / Roar / Flip Turn
- Protect

Primarina @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Moonblast
- Steam Eruption
- Energy Ball
- Flip Turn

Primarina can run Pheal, Triage, or Dauntshield too.
Bulky waters. Suicune was projected to be really big in plain StAAAb, but it just wasn't. Primarina was queen of DLC1 StAAAb UU, but new strong attackers threaten it.

:snorlax: The Lax :snorlax:
Snorlax @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Facade
- Earthquake
- Curse
- Recover / Protect

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Earthquake
- Curse
- Recover
With both Blissey and Chansey out of the picture, Snorlax is (probably) the best blanket special wall. It still takes scary calcs from all sorts of steroid-infused attacks in this meta, such as 2KOs from Specs Eruption/Water Spout unless they've been chipped beforehand.
Type:Null exists, too.

:Nihilego: Off-shoot Regenvesters :Incineroar:
Nihilego @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Mild Nature
- Sludge Wave
- Power Gem
- Thunderbolt
- Knock Off

Incineroar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Sucker Punch / Close Combat / Pyro Ball
- Knock Off
- Fire Lash / Pyro Ball
- U-turn

Incin can run max SpD as well. Nihil can be a rocker if it exchanges vest.
Both wall Fairy and Fire, with Nihilego walling Noivern/Sylveon/PZ, and Incin, Latias (kinda), along with having U-Turn and Priority.
 
Last edited:
First of all, I'd like to thank Ransei for his contributions to this project. I wish you the best of luck in your future projects!

Second, 2 tiering announcements:


AAA Ubers has banned Urshifu-Single-Strike due to the relative impossibility of switching into Sniper boosted Wicked Blow and Calyrex Shadow because it pretty much forced AV Yveltal onto every team.

STAB n Mega has banned Mamoswine and Zygarde from holding stones. Mamoswine was already a menace in DLC 1 with the Scizorite Axel + Bonemerang set which lacked switchins apart from Venusaurite Corviknight and Latiasite Water types or Steelix, but it now gained a new tool in Glacial Lance that has none of the drawbacks of Axel while hitting just as hard. The issues Mamo was causing even without Axel made us decide to ban it in favor of restricting Lance. As for Zygarde, it's already a very strong pokemon in MnM but we believe that Shore Up and Spikes push it over the edge. Note that Power Construct Zygarde is still legal (without stones of course).

Third, we are moving the dailies 2 hours later, from 5PM GMT+1 to 7PM GMT+1.
In addition, the daily playoffs series is temporarily canceled, we will just be awarding room prize winner to the user with the highest score on the leaderboard that doesn't already have a rank in the room. The leaderboard will still reset every two weeks - coinciding with our spotlight changes.

And last but not least, Tier Shift AAA is now an official mashup!
It's replacing Camomons BH which has been pretty dead this gen. This doesn't mean that Camo BH cant be played, we are just recognizing the popularity of TS AAA and moving it up to official status. Expect further news about the official/unofficial split soon.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 3, Guests: 0)

Top