Project OM Mashup Megathread

[Ainzcrad]

Hey y'all Ainz here, i wanted to post a couple of my favorite AAA ubers team atm to submit for samples. The reason i do this now since there a few mons i am looking at that might be a little too broken for the metagame so i kinda want to see how broken they are. If u have any replays that show off a certain mon that looks a little too broken to u feel free to dm me on Ainzcrad#1034 or ping me in the omm cord with the replay!

Adapt Marshadow Balance
Aerilate Rayquaza Balance
Screens NDM HO

 

[bp scrub]

We did some extensive testing with Scale + Tier Shift today and the results were pretty interesting.

First of all, the stats themselves were inconsistent; there are two different methods for calculating stats with seemingly no reason why which one is chosen over another.

The first method is by first Scaling the stats as done in Scalemons, and then applying the TS boosts on top of that. As an equation, this would just be Scale+TS Stat = originalStat * (600-HP)/(BST-HP) + TS boost.
For example, Igglybuff would have base 127 attack and 63 speed after Scaling, and then 167 attack and 103 speed after TS, which corresponds to 476 raw Attack and 305 raw Speed with 252 evs in each stat and an Adamant nature, as shown in this image:

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The second method is kinda weird; the formula is Scale+TS Stat = (TS Boosted Stat) * (600-HP)/(TS Boosted BST - 2*HP). Basically, its like applying TS boosts first and then Scaling the new stats, except its scaled higher than expected since the HP is subtracted twice in the denominator instead of only once.
For example, Igglybuff has 70 base attack and 55 base speed after TS boosts, with a 410 BST total and 90 HP. The scale factor is the same for each stat and is (600-90)/(410-2*90) in Igglybuff's case, which is a 2.217x multiplier. Applying this to the 70 base attack and 55 base speed yields 155 base attack and 121 base speed, which matches this image:

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Another interesting thing:

The method of calculating stats seems to vary between players.

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The above image came from the same battle where method 2 applied to Igglybuff, but this Tyrogue's stats were calculated using the method 1 (you can verify yourself, 252 evs in both Attack and Speed with an Adamant nature)).

In fact, between Pokemon of a single trainer, the method of calculating stats varies as well; in this GIF, both the Igglybuff and Tyrogue of the first player had stats calculated using the first method, while for the second player, Tyrogue used the first method while Igglybuff used the second method.

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TL;DR: when the Scalemons mod is applied on Tier Shift, there are 2 different methods for calculating stats that seem to be randomly picked for each individual mon of both players.

 

[Young Killer]

TL;DR: when the Scalemons mod is applied on Tier Shift, there are 2 different methods for calculating stats that seem to be randomly picked for each individual mon of both players.

It is important to mention that this did not happen before. With the previous formula all the values were constant.

Is it possible to go back to the previous formula? urkerab

 

[PokaPK]

The new mashups spotlight is STAAAB RU! February 15th to March 1st.

Code can be found in the repository post but I'll paste it here as well:

/tour new [Gen 8] STABmons, Elimination
/tour rules !Obtainable Abilities, -Arena Trap, -Comatose, -Contrary, -Fluffy, -Fur Coat, -Gorilla Tactics, -Huge Power, -Ice Scales, -Illusion, -Imposter, -Innards Out, -Intrepid Sword, -Libero, -Moody, -Neutralizing Gas, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Simple, -Stakeout, -Speed Boost, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, -Shedinja, 2 Ability Clause, *Transform, *No Retreat, *V-create, -Hypnosis, -Sing, -Sleep Powder, +Darmanitan, +Porygon-Z, -Keldeo, -Terrakion, *Wicked Blow, -Zeraora, -Chandelure, -Melmetal, -Electrify, -Volcarona, -Blacephalon, -Dragonite, -Tapu Koko, -Thundurus, -Archeops, -Zygarde, -Regigigas, +Zygarde-10%, -Tinted Lens, *Glacial Lance, -Urshifu, -OU, -UUBL, -UU, -RUBL/tour autostart 7
/tour autodq 4
/tour name [Gen 8] STAAABmons RU

Have fun with the spotlight and if you have any sets/teams you'd like to share or any opinions on tiering decisions, feel free to post in this thread!

 

[urkerab]

The second method is kinda weird; the formula is Scale+TS Stat = (TS Boosted Stat) * (600-HP)/(TS Boosted BST - 2*HP). Basically, its like applying TS boosts first and then Scaling the new stats, except its scaled higher than expected since the HP is subtracted twice in the denominator instead of only once.

This is a bug on my part; I've submitted a fix.

I don't know how the sim chooses which formula to apply first though. If I can work out how to make it prefer one over the other, which one would you prefer to apply first?

 

[Don Vascus]

This is a bug on my part; I've submitted a fix.

I don't know how the sim chooses which formula to apply first though. If I can work out how to make it prefer one over the other, which one would you prefer to apply first?

ts first but scale uses ts stats and normal bst

yeah, i like overpowered stuff, i think thats part of the appeal of omm

 

[Young Killer]

This is a bug on my part; I've submitted a fix.

I don't know how the sim chooses which formula to apply first though. If I can work out how to make it prefer one over the other, which one would you prefer to apply first?

Hey urkerab after some discussion in OMM we want the mashup as before, If is not possible to back to that, we think Scale first and then apply the TS boost would be better, and it's the easier way to get the stats.

 

[urkerab]

Hey urkerab after some discussion in OMM we want the mashup as before, If is not possible to back to that, we think Scale first and then apply the TS boost would be better, and it's the easier way to get the stats.

Well, the "before" mashup was still random in which mod got applied first... but I think I know how to make Scale apply before Tier Shift. Do you have any opinion on the relative placing of them with 360 Cup, Flipped and Godly Gift or do they not get mashed up enough to make a difference?

 

[Young Killer]

Well, the "before" mashup was still random in which mod got applied first... but I think I know how to make Scale apply before Tier Shift. Do you have any opinion on the relative placing of them with 360 Cup, Flipped and Godly Gift or do they not get mashed up enough to make a difference?

Well, those Mashups aren't common. So, we don't have an opinion about that. You can feel free to make the changes that you're think pertinent without worry about that.

 

[The Number Man]

I was good TL/RO today and built some teams as well as played some games, so im gonna share some quick thoughts.

STAAAB Trial period:
Chandelure hasn't seemed broken honestly, i think its speed tier is a much bigger hindrance in this new meta than it used to be and there's a million dragons threatening to set up and win if you lock into a fire move. Best set is probs TR sash MG. Currently leaning unban.

Having melm is a huge boon defensively, altho i've seen the offensive sets still be obnoxious. I'm not yet 100% on it since i only faced defensive melm today but its probably still too strong since Steelworker hits like a truck. Currently not sure.

MGLO Clangnite feels like the new NR Cobalion, except it trades pivoting for recovery. Insanely hard to deal with after a boost and it easily gets boosts. Status immune Clang dragons in general are very strong, but Dnite also has a bunch of other possible sets, so it might be too strong regardless, currently leaning do not unban/keep banned.

The kekker, im also split on this guy. Has clear counters, but there isnt that many of them. It has a bunch of checks like swampert lando hippo, rune tho, but you're kinda dependent on whether your defensive invest matches koko's offensive invest. If yes, you're good, if not you can drop to a good prediction. Currently not sure.

Also leaning restrict Owing, since its very constraining on builder.

Team: https://pokepast.es/f2d4ff20104e7de6

STAAAB RU
We banned Togekiss and restricted Boomburst + Spout moves, since the overall defensive power is lower here. There might be some more things we need to ban, but for now it seems to be in an ok place.

Here's a set that's been really insane for me, as well as really fun to use.



Zarude @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Horn Leech
- Power Trip
- Jungle Healing

Trip hits insanely hard after bulk + policy and Zarude's bulk + Healing means you can sit on a bunch of stuff til Leech/Trip are strong enough to sweep.

 

[Don Vascus]

Well, the "before" mashup was still random in which mod got applied first... but I think I know how to make Scale apply before Tier Shift. Do you have any opinion on the relative placing of them with 360 Cup, Flipped and Godly Gift or do they not get mashed up enough to make a difference?

There is a discussion about the order and such, but id like to ask if its posible for Godly Gift to gift stats affected by other modifiers such as ts, scale and the such. This would make godly gift mashups much more entretaining because now non uber gods would be viable

 

[urkerab]

There is a discussion about the order and such, but id like to ask if its posible for Godly Gift to gift stats affected by other modifiers such as ts, scale and the such. This would make godly gift mashups much more entretaining because now non uber gods would be viable

Unfortunately the gifted stat itself is always the original stat; the best I can do is to allow it to be affected by other mashups afterwards.

 

[HeatEdgeSword]

Seems like there's no much discussion about Shared Power here, so I might as well start one :S More specifically, Shared Power Doubles and how it interacts with abilities.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesou-1285414137
On Turn 6, Raichu managed to have Flash Fire but that is not the case for Celesteela. Despite what I initially assumed in this replay, I was incorrect about it. As in Turn 12, Nuzzle was redirected to Clefable by its Lightning Rod.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesou-1285420889
In this replay, Clefable doesn't have Levitate shared from Cresselia on Turn 2. However, Intimidate and Beast Boost are consistently shared throughout the entire battle. Furthermore, Celesteela's Leech Seed doesn't have priority from Grimmsnarl's Prankster as evidence by Psychic Terrain not blocking it.

I'm not sure what was causing the inconsistency on sharing abilities in Shared Power when it's Doubles and I'm not sure if that problem is here when Shared Power is not the base, so if anyone figured that out, that would be much appreciated.

 

[CringeMeta]

Seems like there's no much discussion about Shared Power here, so I might as well start one :S More specifically, Shared Power Doubles and how it interacts with abilities.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesou-1285414137
On Turn 6, Raichu managed to have Flash Fire but that is not the case for Celesteela. Despite what I initially assumed in this replay, I was incorrect about it. As in Turn 12, Nuzzle was redirected to Clefable by its Lightning Rod.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesou-1285420889
In this replay, Clefable doesn't have Levitate shared from Cresselia on Turn 2. However, Intimidate and Beast Boost are consistently shared throughout the entire battle. Furthermore, Celesteela's Leech Seed doesn't have priority from Grimmsnarl's Prankster as evidence by Psychic Terrain not blocking it.

I'm not sure what was causing the inconsistency on sharing abilities in Shared Power when it's Doubles and I'm not sure if that problem is here when Shared Power is not the base, so if anyone figured that out, that would be much appreciated.

At the time a Pokemon switches in, Shared Power generates a list of bonus abilities belonging to allied Pokemon that have previously switched in (with the exceptions of the unstable Mirror Armor and Trace) and gives them to the new Pokemon. In Singles, I don't think there is any way for an active Pokemon's set of abilities to become 'stagnant' and differ from what a regenerated ability pool would give them, but with multiple Pokemon active at the same time in Doubles this can happen often.

In Battle 1, I think this why Celesteela doesn't have Flash Fire on Turn 6, because its ability pool was generated in the middle of Turn 2, before Heatran had ever switched in. However, when Clefable re-enters on Turn 10, Raichu had already been active, allowing it to receive Lightning Rod.

Although there aren't very clear examples of the following in this battle, it's worth noting that this kind of stagnation should apply even when multiple Pokemon on the same side switch-in during a single turn as these are discrete events, meaning that e.g. most likely Grimsnarl never had Magic Guard/Unaware(?) the first time it came out, because Clefable switched in after it. Another subtle example could be if a Pokemon somehow changed its base ability during a battle, e.g. through Mega Evolution - if its ally switched in after it became active but before it Mega Evolved, it should keep the pre-Mega ability.

Up until this point, while things are perhaps unintuitive it seems like everything is behaving correctly (even though that might be somewhat unfair to even expect of quite an extreme mashup like this). Unfortunately, Battle 2 is a bit more complex.

In Battle 2, we should be able to understand why Celesteela never got Prankster from Grimsnarl, since its bonus ability pool was generated back during Turn 3. But stagnation can't explain why Clefable seemed not to get Levitate, because Cresselia was the first Pokemon on its side to become active.

Unfortunately, there are a few abilities that for some reason aren't fully effective when Shared Power is added on to a different base format, with Levitate being probably the most noticeable example. In this case, Clefable probably did actually 'have' Levitate, but it didn't activate for this reason.

This was previously an infamous behaviour in Randbtas Mayhem, but several users stated that this issue was reported as fixed (even though, again, it's perhaps unfair to expect it to support this kind of usage in the first place) so I didn't pay attention to it recently. However, after watching these battles, I retested it myself today on main and I can confirm that Levitate still isn't effective in this situation, regardless of whether the base format is Doubles or not.

I'm not sure why Levitate behaves so differently to other type immunity abilities, though - perhaps it's related to 'groundedness' being a more complex general concept affecting hazards, Gravity, etc, or possibly it's somehow related to Levitate lacking an added effect such as Lightning Rod's SpA boost or Water Absorb's HP recovery...?

 

[urkerab]

Unfortunately, there are a few abilities that for some reason aren't fully effective when Shared Power is added on to a different base format, with Levitate being probably the most noticeable example.

Most abilities trigger on events generated as part of a move. For instance, there's an event called TryHit which is used by abilities such as Bulletproof to make the user immune to certain classes of move.

Indeed Shared Power's power sharing also runs from events (the switch in events), which is why it can be mashed up.

Unfortunately Levitate is more complicated as it affects the user's groundedness. As such, the isGrounded function explicitly checks for the Levitate ability.

Now this of course would normally break Shared Power, so it replaces the ability checking function with one that also checks for shared powers. However this doesn't work when Shared Power is mashed up. (Cloud Nine is another ability directly affected in this way.)

(Of course, if you're that desperate to play true Shared Power doubles, you could always persuade a side server to host it...)

 

[fabwooloo]

STAB and Mega update:
Stab and mega has been inactive for some time but heres an attempt to revive it with a VR
(the VR will be updated if any changes are made, that or a new post will be made)
if you have any recommendations then please let us know!

Sword Shield SNM Viability Ranking (2/20/2021)

S RANK
(altarianite, salamencite, pinsirite)

A+ RANK
(latiasite, slowbronite)
(metronome, life orb)
(venusaurite, sablenite, manectite)
(sablenite, ampharosite)
(lucarionite, aerodactylite, metagrossite, absolite)
(manectite, latiasite, cameruptite)
(tyranitarite)
(lucarionite, absolite, houndoominite)
(lucarionite, blastoisinite)
(banettite, gyaradosite, latiasite, sablenite)
(heavy duty boots, leftovers)
(leftovers, lum berry)
(absolite, lucarionite, aerodactylite)
(aerodactylite, lucarionite, metagrossite, diancite)

A- RANK
(sablenite)
(absolite, diancite, lucarionite)
(aerodactylite, lucarionite)
(lucarionite, scizorite)
(gyaradosite, lucarionite)
(aggronite, lopunnite, lucarionite)
(sablenite, aggronite)
(heavy duty boots)
(scizorite, lucarionite, cameruptite)
(charizarditeY, houndoominite, absolite, cameruptite)
(sablenite, aggronite)
(leftovers, rocky helmet)

B RANK
(eviolite)
(scizorite, glalitite, heracronite)
(tyranitarite, pinsirite, heracronite)
(leftovers)
(sablenite, venusaurite)
(aerodactylite, pinsirite, lopunnite)
(lopunnite, aerodactylite)
(glalitite)
(glalitite, lucarionite, scizorite)
(diancite, lucarionite)
(ampharosite, audinite)

 

[Binacle Pinnacle]

Some quick thoughts on the 4 free STAAAB mons, gonna be 5 words long because mobile

100% stay banned on Koko, MGLO sets are near impossible to punish, and mixed hits nearly all standard Pokémon in the metagame. Those that it doesn’t hit are just u-turn fodder, since Koko is invulnerable to hazards and helmet. The fact that bolt strike had to be restricted for Koko to even resemble being bearable at all should be proof enough that it’s broken imo.

Can’t say anything about this since I’ve played it maybe 2 times. Abstain.

Less one-sided than Koko for me, but still definitely a stay ban. Banded steelworker/tough claws sets get in way too easily for how powerful it is with its rocks resistances and bulk. Regenerator sets have even more longevity, making it near unkillable if played correctly. Corrosion simply poisons its would-be checks and bashes everything else, leaving most teams unable to handle other threats late game. Magic Guard avoids spikes and helm damage entirely, while allowing it to boost its power with LO without sacrificing longevity. I could be convinced otherwise, but melm’s considerable variety in powerful sets is something I believe is too much for STAAAB atm.

Nothing worth much discussion here, this mon has 1 set that destroys everything that isn’t specifically made to beat it, though it does have issues coming in compared to DLC1, thanks to the higher speed tiers. This combined with hazards give it a terrible mu vs. offense, but it can tear through bulkier, slower builds with ease. I can’t get a truly accurate take on chandy since Koko has completely warped the meta, and by extension speed tiers. Abstain, but leaning towards stay banned.

As for base STAAAB, I believe surging strikes, magearna, landorus-t, oblivion wing, and latios (dragon’s maw/dragon energy?) warrant a test.

 

[HeatEdgeSword]

Melmetal remains banned in STABmons Doubles

For those who are surprised by this sudden announcement, let me explain it further. Unfortunately, I made a poll about it and the votes of freeing Melmetal turned out to be the highest. To balance things off, I've decided to hold some STABmons Doubles tournaments with Melmetal allowed. Problem is, while it can be said to most OM Mashups, STABmons Doubles is a different beast compared to regular STABmons, and Memetal turned out to be just as overmelming. If you know what makes Melmetal steellar, feel free to skip it.

explanations

• It's incredibly versatile, being able to run numerous sets.
• Melmetal greatly benefits from speed control, either acting as a good component or check to Trick Room with its amazing bulk and even Tailwind can assist it.
• Rocky Helmet isn't used outside of Gen 6 where Mega Kangaskhan roams around.
• While they didn't see any usage, Rotom's movepool is too cramped for recovery anyway without taking away utility or attack. You could ditch Protect for Roost, but that's not going to be efficient in the long run. Plus battles aren't one-sided and Melmetal runs Body Press in Doubles.

The lesson of the day is sometimes don't listen to the poll

Speaking of that, I would like to see what else is banworthy in Doubles Mashup.

 

[PokaPK]

STAAAB RU Spotlight ends Monday, Mar 1. Vote for the next one in the voting channel of our discord.
This spotlight will run from Monday, March 1st to Monday, March 15th.
The eligible metas are:

Nat Dex AG Shared Power

STAB Godly Gift

Camomons Inheritance

Voting ends Monday, March 1, @ 23:59PM GMT+1

 

[ssss@defrrvdd]

natdex shared power

 

[PokaPK]

natdex shared power

Hey, voting on our discord is the only way for your vote to be counted. Thanks!

 

[Tranquility]

STAAABMons Announcement

​

The STAAAB Trial Period is now Over and the council has voted on the 4 tested mons, after some discussion and voting The STAAAB Council has elected to Unban Dragonite, while keeping Chandelure, Melmetal and Tapu-Koko Banned.

Pokemon	TNM	Manu 11	TMI	Riceman	Ax	Result
	DNB	Ban	Ban	Ban	Ban	Banned
	Ban	Ban	Abstain	Ban	DNB	Banned
	DNB	Ban	Ban	DNB	Ban	Banned
	Abstain	DNB	DNB	DNB	Ban	Unbanned

​

In Addition, the STAAAB Council will be voting on Lando T/I, Oblivion Wing, Surging Strikes, and Latios/Expanding Force later this week. Feel free to post your thoughts on any of those in the thread or on discord! Until then, have a good one y'all.

 

[RICEMAN]

The new mashups spotlight is Camo Inheritance!!!
This will run from March 1st to March 16th

Tour can be set with ?starttour camoinheritance

Be sure to build and enjoy the spotlight!!!
Feel free to share your teams and thoughts on this mashup in the thread

 

[HeatEdgeSword]

Almost Any Ability Doubles will be suspect testing Cresselia!

Cresselia first starts its history off in AAA Doubles by leading Weakness Policy's ban. Despite not having Weakness Policy, Cresselia proved itself to be a force to be reckoned with its Stored Power set with its excellent bulk and having a recovery move in Moonlight allowing it to set up multiple times, with Dauntless Shield always grants Cresselia a Defense boost whenever it enters and Terrain Seed can boost either of its defense further. Furthermore, other abilities such as Magic Bounce and Poison Heal works wonders for Cresselia with Sun abilities or Triage further increasing its longevity. Cresselia may also opt for a more supportive role with the same efficiency. For these qualities, it is decided to suspect test Cresselia.

Why suspect test Cresselia instead of quick-banning it?

Good question. This is done to encourage more activity for AAA Doubles as well as potentially find ways to counteract Cresselia. Dark-types do seem like a good answer to it with their immunity to Stored Power as well being Super-Effective against it. Powerful Ghost-types such as Dragapult and Spectrier can threaten it as well. Finally, Steel-types resisted both Stored Power and Ice Beam. That being said, those may fall flat in practice due to Cresselia's bulk.

What's the requirement to vote?

You will need to join at least 2 suspect tournaments as well as winning 1 suspect tournament with a screenshot as proof.

The suspect test will last for 2 weeks (Tuesday, 16th March). Let me know if there's anything wrong with those conditions.

Also, I will preset several Cresselia teams for this suspect test.

Teams

Magic Bounce Calm Mind
https://pokepast.es/634de190e47c0cb5


Dauntless Shield Calm Mind
https://pokepast.es/0c1ca03f909de4f4


Cursed Room
https://pokepast.es/2b42a0de861c879e

 

[The Number Man]

I've got some very important news. My reign of terror as the sole dictator of OM Mashups is finally over. I have opressed many of you in my time, but for those that enjoyed my leadership, don't be alarmed - I am NOT stepping down. Something much better has happened - PokaPK has agreed to join me as Mashups Leader!
He has been a vital part of the OM Mashups room ever since he joined. It started with the creation of the hugely popular Randbtas Mayhem format and continued with stellar performance as roomauth. Please give him a warm welcome, I am certain he will help us push OMM to even greater heights!