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OM Mashup
- Thread starter skies
- Start date
- Status
Please no... Shuckle would get 40/250/250 bulk, and it's already one of the best (and it's over the usage threshold in BH).
But Shuckle isn't that great, and most of its sets can be hard-walled by switching in a Magic Bouncer...
EV
Banned deucer.
One way to approach the mashup is to look at both their viability rankings and see if there's any overlap. One can assume that if a Pokemon ranks favorably in both formats, it should be a threat in the new mashup.
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Suspected once in AAA and a top threat in STABmons. It was mentioned already, but Adaptability plus even stronger Water STAB might finally send this pony out to pasture for good.
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Will Heatran go for an offensive approach with Chlorophyll or continue to be a bulky check to physical attackers like it is in STABmons? Levitate or Water Absorb could work depending on what you need to check.
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It's unranked in STABmons, but holds the highest spot in AAA where it became a metagame-defining threat. Can it still hold its own with Poison Heal? Considering how quickly it recovers HP, a Water Spout set might see some use.
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With its bulk and high Attack, Tyranitar is a versatile threat across both OMs. Does it want Intimidate, that way when it mega evolves it takes less damage from physical and special attacks? Adaptability for ridiculously strong Knock Offs and Diamond Storms? Prankster for a quick Dark Void before it transforms and begins to attack in its mega form? I guess we'll find out.
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Magic Guard is a better Rock Head in every way, letting Aerodactyl switch in without fear of Stealth Rock so it can fire off Head Smashes and Brave Birds with reckless abandon. Plus now it can carry a Life Orb without worry of it chipping away at its health, which puts the nail in the coffin of its mega form.
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A bigger threat in AAA than in STABmons by far, does Cresselia have the staying power to check the army of setup Pokemon that are so common in STABmons? Unaware is a cold stop to just about any, while Poison Heal lets it absorb Prankster sleep and other status. Will she turn into a boosting tank with Stored Power? That's anyone's guess right now, but I have a feeling she'll still be very relevant in how the mashup develops.
Houndoom @ Houndoomite
Ability: Drought-->Solar Power
EVs: 252 SpA/ 252 Spe/ 4 Def
Timid Nature
- Solar Beam
- Eruption
- Parting Shot
- Dark Pulse/Fiery Dance/Blue Flare
252 SpA Solar Power Mega Houndoom Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 372-438 (52.8 - 62.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Ability: Drought-->Solar Power
EVs: 252 SpA/ 252 Spe/ 4 Def
Timid Nature
- Solar Beam
- Eruption
- Parting Shot
- Dark Pulse/Fiery Dance/Blue Flare
252 SpA Solar Power Mega Houndoom Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 372-438 (52.8 - 62.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Since The Eevee General bugged me about this, banlists from each meta are mashed as well!
EDIT;
Also, some prelim bans that I'm proposing are:
EDIT;
Also, some prelim bans that I'm proposing are:
- Quick Banning Keldeo
- Suspecting Adaptability
Some metas that would work with BH (and PH by extension), besides Tier Shift, include Metagmiate, Mons Just Mons, Swapmons, Monotype, 350 Cup, 100 Little Cups, Sky Battles, No Ability, LowManaMania, XY Weather Wars, and Slowmons. And that's just glancing at the front page.
Of course, up to you if you want to allow those possible mix-ups or not.
Of course, up to you if you want to allow those possible mix-ups or not.
You thought this meta was too offensive ? Then consider this :
For other Mashups (silly) suggestions :
- Pure Hackmons (I know it's banned) + Camomons : Good luck against Wonder Guard Giratina
- Balanced Hackmons + 1v1 (yes please) :
(I guess people will find a way to counter it other than Spooky Plate Gengar but still)
Shuckle @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce / Unaware / Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Defend Order
- Heal Order / Rest
- Taunt / Encore / Filler
- Infestation / Filler
Unholy bulk, set up, reliable recovery, what else ? Magic Bounce makes Taunt users and phazers taste a bit of their own medicine and prevents Toxic stall, Unaware laughs at all those BD and SS users that think they can kill you, Prankster for quick healing and set up. Rest prevents Toxic stall on non-Bounce sets but I don't expect Toxic to be common in a meta this offensive. Taunt prevents excessive Shell Smashes, phazing or opposing Taunt for the Prankster set. Infestation and Encore are for trapping something that tries to set up on you, especially when running Unaware. Filler can be stupid things like Power Trick or Knock Off, although Shuckle has better things to do.
Hell, it can even run a Water Absorb set to tell Keldeo to take a walk (but it was banned - hopefully).
Also resists the Boomburst spam (watchout for Pixilate and co. tho), and only two weaknesses. Don't. Fuckle. with. Shuckle.
No, seriously, I have no idea if this thing is even viable, but I really love Shuckle in OMs in general. There might be x100 better mons for such a set (Cress comes to mind), however stalling out people with a dumb-looking mon is just extremely fun and rewarding.
For trolling set, Spore + Leech Seed + Toxic Orb + Poison Heal + Substitute Sceptile looks "fun" to abuse once you've KOed the opposing Grass Types. Easily beaten, but annoying once you've weakened your opponent, with hazards up. Nevermind, Gale Wing, Taunt, Magic Guard/Bounce, everything ever destroy it.
Ability: Magic Bounce / Unaware / Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Defend Order
- Heal Order / Rest
- Taunt / Encore / Filler
- Infestation / Filler
Unholy bulk, set up, reliable recovery, what else ? Magic Bounce makes Taunt users and phazers taste a bit of their own medicine and prevents Toxic stall, Unaware laughs at all those BD and SS users that think they can kill you, Prankster for quick healing and set up. Rest prevents Toxic stall on non-Bounce sets but I don't expect Toxic to be common in a meta this offensive. Taunt prevents excessive Shell Smashes, phazing or opposing Taunt for the Prankster set. Infestation and Encore are for trapping something that tries to set up on you, especially when running Unaware. Filler can be stupid things like Power Trick or Knock Off, although Shuckle has better things to do.
Hell, it can even run a Water Absorb set to tell Keldeo to take a walk (but it was banned - hopefully).
Also resists the Boomburst spam (watchout for Pixilate and co. tho), and only two weaknesses. Don't. Fuckle. with. Shuckle.
No, seriously, I have no idea if this thing is even viable, but I really love Shuckle in OMs in general. There might be x100 better mons for such a set (Cress comes to mind), however stalling out people with a dumb-looking mon is just extremely fun and rewarding.
For other Mashups (silly) suggestions :
- Pure Hackmons (I know it's banned) + Camomons : Good luck against Wonder Guard Giratina
- Balanced Hackmons + 1v1 (yes please) :
(I guess people will find a way to counter it other than Spooky Plate Gengar but still)
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OFFENSE: THE META: THE EXPERIENCE
eh
maybe idk
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I'd be alright with this,
sounds super overpowered imo
idk honestly
Really limited
*heart eyes* but this would just be STABmons + No Ability anyways
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Weather would take over, and slowmons would be ok.
But, I'm against it still because it's a complex ban, in a way, so I'd rather keep it simple and keep it limited to 1v1.
Assuming Adaptability doesn't get banned these two will be broken (only powerful if it does get banned)
Pyroar @ Splash Plate/White Herb/Life Orb
Adaptability
Boomburst
Blue Flare
Judgement/Dark Pulse
Shell Smash/filler
Heliolisk @ Splash Plate/White Herb/Life Orb
Adaptability
Boomburst
Thunderbolt
Judgement/Surf
Shell Smash/Filler
Pyroar @ Splash Plate/White Herb/Life Orb
Adaptability
Boomburst
Blue Flare
Judgement/Dark Pulse
Shell Smash/filler
Heliolisk @ Splash Plate/White Herb/Life Orb
Adaptability
Boomburst
Thunderbolt
Judgement/Surf
Shell Smash/Filler
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
Adaptability probably warrants a suspect, but then we will just get tinted lens keldeo w/ water spout, which is obv going to be some broken ass shit, because tbh with spout tinted lens is better than adaptability.
-quickban Keldeo
- Detailed discussion about adaptability
Adaptability is a good ability, but many mons would rather run something else, and I don't think that outside of keldeo adaptability is all THAT broken in comparison to the many other useful abilities. Its certainly good, but I just don't see it being all that broken.
With the offensive power in this meta, I think people are underrestimating how stall in general will fare in this meta, when you can use stuff like unaware cress with heart swap, and prankster anything. To be honest, I think that stall looks very good, and all sweepers absolutely NEED priority or else they will not survive at all in this meta with prankster heart swap and topsy turvy, which will be even more common.
-quickban Keldeo
- Detailed discussion about adaptability
Adaptability is a good ability, but many mons would rather run something else, and I don't think that outside of keldeo adaptability is all THAT broken in comparison to the many other useful abilities. Its certainly good, but I just don't see it being all that broken.
With the offensive power in this meta, I think people are underrestimating how stall in general will fare in this meta, when you can use stuff like unaware cress with heart swap, and prankster anything. To be honest, I think that stall looks very good, and all sweepers absolutely NEED priority or else they will not survive at all in this meta with prankster heart swap and topsy turvy, which will be even more common.
I use Unaware Cress with Heart Swap and Stored Power in BH. Wonder if it'll work as well here.
Just to clarify, we can nominate ANY meta to be mashed, not just one that won OMotM right? Because I really want to slap 6 move metagame (which is basically glorified ou rn, still not that great) onto everything, especially BH (mwahahaha).
Anyways on to the actual meta
Diggersby is banned now, so there goes that.
Sableye/spiritomb see a dramatic drop in usage due to the abundance of magic bounce bellyspeeders. Pretty much all support pokemon must have mold breaker or unaware (unless the opposing pokemon is mold breaker, in which case spiritomb is safe).
Then we have things like gale wings + oblivion wing togekiss to destroy things.
Seems like a pretty fun meta
Anyways on to the actual meta
Diggersby is banned now, so there goes that.
Sableye/spiritomb see a dramatic drop in usage due to the abundance of magic bounce bellyspeeders. Pretty much all support pokemon must have mold breaker or unaware (unless the opposing pokemon is mold breaker, in which case spiritomb is safe).
Then we have things like gale wings + oblivion wing togekiss to destroy things.
Seems like a pretty fun meta
Its not nvm
I was thinking huge power, which is close to the same thing. Diggersby is nothing without huge power
EV
Banned deucer.
parting shot phazes MBers
Normal types with Adaptability and Fake Out/Extremespeed will be really good in STAAABmons.
I had a lot of success using Porygon-Z with that combo in regular stabmons and that only has base 80 atk, so anything more powerful (eg Ursaring, Zangoose, Ambipom, etc) will definitely be worth watching out for.
Also, Gale Wings Landorus-T is like Talonflame on steroids:
252+ Atk Choice Band Landorus-T Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 884-1044 (230.2 - 271.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 596-704 (155.2 - 183.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
With all the priority attacks and strong physical attackers in general, abilities like Iron Barbs, Intimidate, and Flame Body could be very useful.
I had a lot of success using Porygon-Z with that combo in regular stabmons and that only has base 80 atk, so anything more powerful (eg Ursaring, Zangoose, Ambipom, etc) will definitely be worth watching out for.
Also, Gale Wings Landorus-T is like Talonflame on steroids:
252+ Atk Choice Band Landorus-T Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 884-1044 (230.2 - 271.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 596-704 (155.2 - 183.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
With all the priority attacks and strong physical attackers in general, abilities like Iron Barbs, Intimidate, and Flame Body could be very useful.
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EV
Banned deucer.
w0rd makes a good point. While the onslaught of attackers will get even more varied, proper checks and counters will emerge now that they can tailor their abilities appropriately. I see more niche checks/counters, however, so maybe that will make it harder to prepare for a majority of the threats and your defensive Pokemon will have to function in multiple roles, thus putting more pressure on them.
canno
formerly The Reptile
Adaptability on anything gets ridiculous levels of silly. Keldeo is far from the only abuser of the ability - imagine something like Adaptability any Normal-type (except Diggersby for obvious reasons) spamming Extreme Speeds / Boombursts with 2x STAB. Imaging something like Adaptability Lando-T spamming Brave Birds and wrecking shit left an right, along with its Earthquake. I know Gale Wings is probably much more tempting on it, but the power is just, well...just look at this calc
252 Atk Adaptability Landorus-T Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 226-268 (57.3 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
and even
252 Atk Adaptability Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 190-224 (48.2 - 56.8%) -- 37.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
as compared to...
252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 169-201 (42.8 - 51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
oh my. Gale Wings is still a really good ability, but Adaptability is insanely powerful.
252 Atk Adaptability Landorus-T Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 226-268 (57.3 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
and even
252 Atk Adaptability Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 190-224 (48.2 - 56.8%) -- 37.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
as compared to...
252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 169-201 (42.8 - 51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
oh my. Gale Wings is still a really good ability, but Adaptability is insanely powerful.
Well, don't forget that everything has access to Defiant and Competitive (no more Wigglytuff !!!)... Predict wrong and you have a +3 Landorus/Meloetta/anything ready to tear your team to shreds.
And even if you can run Mandibuzz over Sableye for better bulk, not even Prankster will save you when Gale Wing Togekiss uses Geomancy.
Sableye is no longer the safety net it used to be in STABmon...
EV
Banned deucer.
Check out this bad boy.
@ Life Orb / Tyranitarite
Ability: Sheer Force
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Diamond Storm
- Crunch
- Sucker Punch / Fire Punch
- Dragon Dance / Taunt
A Dark type without Knock Off? I know, I know. Hear me out. Sheer Force Crunch is slightly stronger than the first Knock Off and much stronger than the second. The downside of course if you no longer remove the target's item, but I think the power output is worth it. Diamond Storm is Tyranitar's strongest attack and can easily 2HKO a fully defensive Chansey without any boosts. Sucker Punch is good to have before you get enough Speed boosts and makes it a fantastic revenger. Fire Punch was just subbed for coverage--another move might work better. Dragon Dance might seem counter-intuitive with Unaware and Prankster as two of the more common abilities (probably) but late game it can help clean up especially once you mega evolve. Taunt is extremely viable and can screw over a switch-in Prankster hoping to Topsy, Parting Shot, Dark Void, WOW, etc. Check out Sheer Force's damage output in the calcs below.
Calcs:
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 289-343 (65 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Unaware is dead no matter what, Poison Heal has a chance to Protect and heal out of the 2HKO range, but will be facing immense pressure)
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tyranitar Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Spiritomb: 192-227 (63.1 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (If it's Prankster, Taunt is the best move to use as it comes in)
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tyranitar Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 277-328 (68.5 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal (Needs to be at +1 and good health otherwise will lose from Scald and burns. Scald does 46.3 - 55.1%)
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tyranitar Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 398-468 (93.8 - 110.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (Will probably be Prankster. Stealth Rocks is a guaranteed OHKO)
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tyranitar Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 374-442 (53.1 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Unaware loses. Prankster will Transform and Diamond Storm will do 18.3 - 21.5% to it. Chansey can win if it still has its Eviolite)
This is pure theorymoning, but I'll probably test it out soon.
Ability: Sheer Force
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Diamond Storm
- Crunch
- Sucker Punch / Fire Punch
- Dragon Dance / Taunt
A Dark type without Knock Off? I know, I know. Hear me out. Sheer Force Crunch is slightly stronger than the first Knock Off and much stronger than the second. The downside of course if you no longer remove the target's item, but I think the power output is worth it. Diamond Storm is Tyranitar's strongest attack and can easily 2HKO a fully defensive Chansey without any boosts. Sucker Punch is good to have before you get enough Speed boosts and makes it a fantastic revenger. Fire Punch was just subbed for coverage--another move might work better. Dragon Dance might seem counter-intuitive with Unaware and Prankster as two of the more common abilities (probably) but late game it can help clean up especially once you mega evolve. Taunt is extremely viable and can screw over a switch-in Prankster hoping to Topsy, Parting Shot, Dark Void, WOW, etc. Check out Sheer Force's damage output in the calcs below.
Calcs:
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 289-343 (65 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Unaware is dead no matter what, Poison Heal has a chance to Protect and heal out of the 2HKO range, but will be facing immense pressure)
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tyranitar Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Spiritomb: 192-227 (63.1 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (If it's Prankster, Taunt is the best move to use as it comes in)
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tyranitar Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 277-328 (68.5 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal (Needs to be at +1 and good health otherwise will lose from Scald and burns. Scald does 46.3 - 55.1%)
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tyranitar Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 398-468 (93.8 - 110.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (Will probably be Prankster. Stealth Rocks is a guaranteed OHKO)
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tyranitar Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 374-442 (53.1 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Unaware loses. Prankster will Transform and Diamond Storm will do 18.3 - 21.5% to it. Chansey can win if it still has its Eviolite)
This is pure theorymoning, but I'll probably test it out soon.
Keldeo is now banned.
Still think TS + Metagamiate should be a thing... >:(
Anywho...
@ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard/Flash Fire
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Shift Gear
- Gear Grind
- Megahorn
- Bullet Punch/Superpower/Knock Off
Basically, take Shift Gear Scizor in STABmons and slap a Life Orb on it and give it Magic Guard, need I say more?
I like using this thing on a rain team so the fire weakness is less of a threat, if your really worried about fire than giving it Flash Fire is also an option.
Anywho...
Ability: Magic Guard/Flash Fire
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Shift Gear
- Gear Grind
- Megahorn
- Bullet Punch/Superpower/Knock Off
Basically, take Shift Gear Scizor in STABmons and slap a Life Orb on it and give it Magic Guard, need I say more?
I like using this thing on a rain team so the fire weakness is less of a threat, if your really worried about fire than giving it Flash Fire is also an option.
here's a garchomp set I came up with:
Garchomp @ Garchompite
Ability: Sand Stream->Sand Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dual Chop/dragon claw
- Earthquake/thousand arrows/bonemerang
- Iron Head/iron tail/rock slide/stone edge
stats:357/359/226/176/207/333->357/439/266/248/227/311
a rather simple set that has the potential to be very deadly.
Garchomp @ Garchompite
Ability: Sand Stream->Sand Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dual Chop/dragon claw
- Earthquake/
- Iron Head/iron tail/rock slide/stone edge
stats:357/359/226/176/207/333->357/439/266/248/227/311
a rather simple set that has the potential to be very deadly.
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