On The Radar Vol. 2 [See Post #336]

[Linkart567]

To provide a switch in option for G-Darm’s STAB attacks, people have found adequate options in:

Flareon
Jellicent
Seismitoad
G-Corsola
Vaporeon
Lapras
Rotom Heat
Centiskorch
Avalugg
Milotic
Arcanine
Rotom Wash
Gastrodon

https://pastebin.com/JbqdN00a

There, I calculated all of the pokemon you said are a switch-in option agaisnt Darmanitan. Keep in mind the Calc is bugged with Gorilla Tactics, so the +1 attack is necessary to correctly reflect Darm's actual performance. I added Stealth Rocks, as they are usually up and it's not difficult to keep them up in the meta.

The only true switch-in to Darmanitan is Rotom-H, that can run Boots but will lack recovery instead. I run mine with leftovers, since it's usually needed to come into other threats in the meta, such as Cinderace and Corviknight. If it's boots, it will keep getting pelted little by little until something KOs it, and if it's Leftovers, Stealth Rock will keep doing significant damage.

 

[Marzbar]

https://pastebin.com/JbqdN00a

There, I calculated all of the pokemon you said are a switch-in option agaisnt Darmanitan. Keep in mind the Calc is bugged with Gorilla Tactics, so the +1 attack is necessary to correctly reflect Darm's actual performance. I added Stealth Rocks, as they are usually up and it's not difficult to keep them up in the meta.

The only true switch-in to Darmanitan is Rotom-H, that can run Boots but will lack recovery instead. I run mine with leftovers, since it's usually needed to come into other threats in the meta, such as Cinderace and Corviknight. If it's boots, it will keep getting pelted little by little until something KOs it, and if it's Leftovers, Stealth Rock will keep doing significant damage.

Your pastebin document is nice and all but I don’t know why you’re running Earthquake damage calcs for everything. The idea is to switch in to a choice locked stab attack. Your opponent is not going to predict switches 100% of the time and just click Earthquake every turn.

I respectfully bow out of this thread and this argument. I don’t think the relentless hostility towards me or any other non-ban argument on here is warranted or necessary. My post was quite civil and polite and had innocent intentions, and it was gang raped in return. But whatever, enjoy your bans.

 

[BlazeLatias]

Your pastebin document is nice and all but I don’t know why you’re running Earthquake damage calcs for everything. The idea is to switch in to a choice locked stab attack. Your opponent is not going to predict switches 100% of the time and just click Earthquake every turn.

I respectfully bow out of this thread and this argument. I don’t think the relentless hostility towards me or any other non-ban argument on here is warranted or necessary. My post was quite civil and polite and had innocent intentions, and it was gang raped in return. But whatever, enjoy your bans.

I dont really see any aggression outside of your own from what i read.

Earthquake calcs are used because EQ allows darm to break down pretty much all of the bulky water types you listed that switch into darm. The point is that darm can AND WILL click EQ and break past its checks. If it cant it just u-turns out as they switch in and deals chip damage. Again Double banded Darm can break past its usual switch-ins with Earthquake assuming its stab combinations are not enough as is. For the most part EQ is also a very safe move to use especially if the opponents only switch in is a bulky water. Heres the thing though about where you say "the idea is to switch into a choice locked stab" if darms locked into a choice locked stab it just switches out. This also fails to account for darm just clicking EQ on the predicted switch in.

 

[HeartfulKitty]

Your pastebin document is nice and all but I don’t know why you’re running Earthquake damage calcs for everything. The idea is to switch in to a choice locked stab attack. Your opponent is not going to predict switches 100% of the time and just click Earthquake every turn.

I respectfully bow out of this thread and this argument. I don’t think the relentless hostility towards me or any other non-ban argument on here is warranted or necessary. My post was quite civil and polite and had innocent intentions, and it was gang raped in return. But whatever, enjoy your bans.

1) lmao

2) there were literally some icicle crash stats there for things that were neutrally hit by it

3) Earthquake is an option that a lot of people go for due to how nicely it covers potential resists to icicle crash. Sure, one won't predict things like this every time, but enough chip from icicle crash/uturn means that they can pretty freely spam it late game. Or mid to early game, if it's CBCBDARM. The calcs prove that not much can really switch in because earthquake is a pretty easy predict to make, most of the time. Especially if you build your team around taking out relevant resists/flying types for it.

 

[Reuniclus Lover]

I dont really see any aggression outside of your own from what i read.

Earthquake calcs are used because EQ allows darm to break down pretty much all of the bulky water types you listed that switch into darm. The point is that darm can AND WILL click EQ and break past its checks. If it cant it just u-turns out as they switch in and deals chip damage. Again Double banded Darm can break past its usual switch-ins with Earthquake assuming its stab combinations are not enough as is. For the most part EQ is also a very safe move to use especially if the opponents only switch in is a bulky water. Heres the thing though about where you say "the idea is to switch into a choice locked stab" if darms locked into a choice locked stab it just switches out. This also fails to account for darm just clicking EQ on the predicted switch in.

I can definitely see it, at first i was confused at why the initial reply was so condescending and hostile, instead of just neutral. Anyways i still don't agree with Mazbars point, or the argument put forth by them.

QB G.Darm.

 

[Sensemaker]

Serious question and all previous posts aside:

Why can’t you just ban the ability Gorilla Tactics?

It directly takes care of the problem and allows Zen Mode variants to be used, which are not a concern. It would be very easy to implement. You’ve already banned Moody.

Because the council has stated that they will be considering Garm as a whole and not just the ability GT. I would agree with the council in this since tiering philosophy, AFAIK, dictates that the best set be considered in tiering decisions.

Moody is different as an ability ban because it was deemed uncompetitive (which I also agree with, due to its RNG-based nature). GT is not uncompetitive but rather it is broken on a Mon with base 140 ATK and a reasonable SPE tier.

 

[Cresselia92]

Because the council has stated that they will be considering Garm as a whole and not just the ability GT. I would agree with the council in this since tiering philosophy, AFAIK, dictates that the best set be considered in tiering decisions.

Actually, they didn’t say such thing. They have gathered both arguments about banning Darmanitan as a whole or just the ability, and will decide what action to take in due time.

…Which I hope it will be soon enough. The thread has made it abundantly clear that Darmanitan is a force to be reckoned with, and that its little flaws like weakness to Stealth Rock and “average” Speed aren’t strong enough cons that remedy to its array of pros and strong points.

I don’t even think a suspect is necessary. A QB sounds like the preferable choice, so that we can move forward with the metagame.

 

[Jordy]

As has been said multiple times now, this is not the thread to discuss whether Gorilla Tactics or Galarian Darmanitan should be banned. The discussion is about whether Galarian Darmanitan is broken and worthy of a suspect test or quick ban. How it will be handled (Gorrila Tactics vs Galarian Darmanitan) is something the council will discuss and take a decision on.

 

[Divine Retribution]

I already addressed your counter argument because I knew you’d throw it at me. If people refuse to put the above mentioned Pokémon on their team to deal with G-Darm, either because they don’t like those Pokémon or because they are too stubborn to change their ways, and therefore they struggle with G-Darm, then that is their problem, not G-Darm’s.

None of the Pokemon you listed are reliable checks to Darm. Every last one is either 2HKO'd cleanly (or flat out OHKO'd in the case of shit like Flareon) by one of the only 4 moves this thing ever carries, or is susceptible to chip and has no reliable recovery. That isn't even bringing up the ever-present possibility of that Darmanitan on the opposing team being Zen Mode and setting up a Belly Drum in your face when you switch out to your "check".

Furthermore, between this and your posts in the Dynamax threads, it's clear you either don't understand our tiering philosophy or don't agree with it. A Pokemon making sub-optimal Pokemon viable purely because they check it is a pretty terrible reason to keep it in the tier (especially when exactly 0 of those sub-optimal trashmons are actually reliable checks), and it honestly seems to me like you just enjoy being contrarian, or are against the concept of bans in their entirety (in which case, hate to tell you, but you might just be in the wrong place). If that's the case, instead of coming up with bullshit about how Flareon being viable means Darmanitan is healthy for the metagame, I would recommend getting badged and posting a discussion in Policy Review about how the tiering philosophy is actually bad, all bans are bad, and we should just make OU AG.

 

[jack44]

I’m a bit shy, so this is the first time I have posted directly instead of lurking, but I wanted to try to contribute to this discussion.

Based on my recent experiences with the meta sans dynamax; I believe that the smaller pokedex is going to naturally lead to any “healthy” meta is going to coalesce around a few controversial offensive Pokémon; and the trick for Smogon is going to be finding the right controversial decision to make.

I personally believe that there are some mons that could keep G Darm in check with priority moves while being generally decent, but I acknowledge that it is far and above the most offensive mon in the tier and may still need banning. I would thus favor having a suspect test to give the meta some more time to develop answers assuming people are willing to do so.

 

[Gary]

The funny thing is, Flareon and Centiskorch’s viability have absolutely nothing to do with Darm. Their main draw is their ability to take on LO Clef, which is why they almost always run full SpD. They can also somewhat take on Kings + 3 attacks Aegi decently okay and Hat. If you run full phys def on them for the sake of checking Darm, they turn into a shakier LO Clef check while also being extremely unreliable Darm checks too. SpDef Flareon is 2HKOed by a Scarf Crash btw lol, so they don't even need to predict. I can see some merit to running phys def Skorch for Scarf Darm but it still loses to Band and becomes significantly less consistent against the Ghosts/Fairies that it's usually meant to check.

If you're gonna argue against a ban it's usually in your best interest to understand what something does before commenting about it, otherwise it's just going to make you look like you're grasping at straws for the sake of being contrarian.

 

[ShadowMarioGalaxy64]

I’m tired of this thread. I’m honestly sick and tired of this thread and the usual Vicious Cycles that occur within any OU Thread that’s based on the potential ban of a Pokémon.

Don’t get me wrong, y’all, I love seeing the debates and all, but at this point, we’ve been treading the same water for some time and it’s time to drain it. The pro ban arguments have been made, the anti ban “arguments” (I’m sorry, almost every one has been debunked or are considered moot at this point), and the detractors hating Smogon as they usually do, even to the point of believing the council just decides and the vote is useless (you know who you are and you know how stupid your post is, there’s no other way to put it), I’m convinced it’s time to retire the thread.

Oh, but I might as well comment on Darminitan itself, shouldn’t I? Yeah, ban it. I know, adding to the Vicious Cycle, but mostly to not have this post be an observation of the thread and nothing more. Suspect testing would be a waste of time—this thread is basic proof of that. We know what it does, abuses Gorilla Tactics with insane attack and a solid movepool, able to break normal checks with Choice Band (Christ, this almost sounds like a jacked up BW Terrakion), sweeps and pivots with Scarf, and is overall too powerful and restricting in the tier. I was a bit surprised that this was looked at before the Fossil Fish that shall not be named, but this is still a solid step forward towards a healthier metagame.

Oh, and fuck U-Turn on this monster. That move alone allows it to avoid normal checks insanely well while dealing good damage, plus bringing in a check to the switch-in. This is far too autopilot to allow in OU (I know semi Autopilot mons have existed, but none of them as brain dead as this).

Late edit: Yeah, I know this post is more emotional than my normal posts (those old enough to remember when I actually posted back in Gen 6’s meta might remember my normal format, but they’re typically more informative), but year after year since ghosting Gen 5, watching the same shenanigans happen, I’m honestly pretty fed up.

 

[myowngamertag]

Just ban him already lol, 95% of this thread is saying he should go. The other 5% is arguing he's not broken by saying shit like not being able to run Life Orb or that you can "counter" him with some niche mon that has zero use outside of staving off a scarfed Icicle Crash

 

[Empress Mobile]

I don't know how Arcanine, Flareon and Centiskorch even came into discussion. Their only major function is to check the myriad Fairy type attackers in the tier, most importantly LO Clefable. Any attempt to overextend their niche into some sort of mixed wall compromises their ability to perform their primary function while also failing miserably to allow them to put any meaningful long-term pressure on G Darm. Some of the other walls mentioned are decent against Scarf but are easily overwhelmed by the Band sets. The argument isn't that there are no ways to stop G Darm. It's that the entire metagame shouldn't revolve around checks to 3-4 offensive Pokemon.

 

[MastaTraina]

and the detractors hating Smogon as they usually do, even to the point of believing the council just decides and the vote is useless (you know who you are and you know how stupid your post it, there’s no other way to put it), I’m convinced it’s time to retire the thread.

Something needs to be done about Darm. But if people want to see Gorilla Tactics banned instead of banning Darm entirely, why is that option not presented. That type of ban is not unprecedented; however, in this case we are not allowed to consider that action because the “council has already decided”.

 

[Empress Mobile]

Something needs to be done about Darm. But if people want to see Gorilla Tactics banned instead of banning Darm entirely, why is that option not presented. That type of ban is not unprecedented; however, we as a community are not allowed to consider that action because the “council has already decided”.

The council has stated multiple times that they haven't made a decision. They shut down discussion on it because there's nothing you could possibly say about it that hasn't been brought up multiple times. If you think you've somehow thought of something that wasn't brought up in the endless back and forth, i'm sure you could PM one of the council members with your thoughts.

 

[DialgaTheTimeLord]

Something needs to be done about Darm. But if people want to see Gorilla Tactics banned instead of banning Darm entirely, why is that option not presented. That type of ban is not unprecedented; however, in this case we are not allowed to consider that action because the “council has already decided”.

The only recent "precedent" is all of three abilities, two being the trapping abilities which were explicitly proven to be broken themselves, while the other was merely the activator for a broken form change for Zygarde, which formes are generally tiered separately. The old Swift Swim and/or Sand Rush ban was 1: years ago and 2: during a time when weather abilities were permanent. If we were testing Zen Darm, we actually would have precedent, as we could argue that Zen Darm activates under the same conditions and therefore could be tiered separately if it was more powerful.

Regardless, the mods have said SEVERAL TIMES to shut up about GT. Stop fucking bringing it up, you're not helping the thread. The mods have been seriously considering locking the thread if it keeps up so just stop. Please.

 

[Mame YO]

Games feel bad whenever this mon is involved. In mirror matches (because you’re crazy not to run Garm as long as he’s available) the game is decided by whoever gets more chances to use their Garm or whoever wins the inevitable speed tie.

Most teams are using at least two checks/counters to this mon and even then you’re basically just hoping you can wear Garm down with SR and good predictions before your team is weakened enough that it sweeps. You’re effectively on a timer whenever this mon is involved.

Obviously even using checks and prediction to slow it down is easier said than done because any decent player is going to build their team around maximizing Garm’s chances to press buttons - and that’s the problem. With enough data you can likely reliably predict the winner of any given match based on how many times they’re able to attack with Garm.

 

[oreofestar]

No harm in locking the thread anyway, pretty much nothing new has been added in days it's very clear 95% of people already agree on what needs to be done with darm.

 

[jack44]

I have been thinking about this nonstop since my first post. I know of multiple Pokémon that can easily win a 1 v 1 against a G Darmanitan. I even believe that some of those have potential to be OU staples.

But after giving it some serious thought; I cannot think of anything really capable of switching into it. So the best case scenario would be that I need to sac a mon every time I want to safely bring in my “counter“. So I wish to retract my previous statement. A ban instead of a suspect may be warranted due to the lack of a counter that can switch into AND reliably wall or faint G Darm.

 

[Kioskate]

I'm in favor of quick banning Darmanitan but I feel like one of it's best counter isn't being talked about enough. On my stall teams I like to use Centiskorch as my Darmanitan answer because using bulky waters just doesn't work when they get worn down by U-Turn and also need to be able to answer Dracovish.

Centiskorch @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire/Flame Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Fire Lash
- Knock Off
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Scarf
252 Atk Darmanitan-Galar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Centiskorch: 130-154 (32.1 - 38.1%) -- 96.3% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Centiskorch: 108-128 (26.7 - 31.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Darmanitan-Galar U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Centiskorch: 38-45 (9.4 - 11.1%) -- possible 9HKO

Band
+1 252 Atk Darmanitan-Galar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Centiskorch: 195-230 (48.2 - 56.9%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Centiskorch: 163-192 (40.3 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 Atk Darmanitan-Galar U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Centiskorch: 57-67 (14.1 - 16.5%) -- possible 7HKO

The main problem with checking Darmanitan is you'll get worn down by U-Turn, which Centiscorch handles better than the other answers. It has access to Flash Fire, so you don't have to worry about the Flare Blitz calcs, however when I pair it with Dugtrio I actually prefer Flame Body. Obviously the chance to burn is nice and if Darmanitan does hit you with a Flare Blitz the recoil will put it into Stone Edge range as well as Centiskorch's Fire Lash if you weren't able to have Stealth Rocks up to do so.

Centiskorch isn't worthless outside of this role either. It counters Excadrill without a Rock move, Physical Aegislash without Head Smash and Leftovers Special sets, Cinderace with Flame Body. It also beats Bisharp, Conkeldurr, Corsola, Ferrothorn, Grimsnarl, Mandibuzz and Mimikyu

If you looked at Jellicent you would see it actually handles Darmanitan better but you lose the ability to kill it back and just sponge the hits until you're eventually weakened and killed. Depending on Jellicent, while a better counter places to much of a restriction on team building. You usually need your water Pokemon to handle Rain, Dracovish, and Cinderace and Darmanitan pairs well with all of these.

Having two pokemon that can reliably check it is not enough when we can see how well it performs in every single game. It's just stupid how easy it is to win with Choice Band Darmanitan on a rain team. I do however see an argument that if Dracovish were banned there'd be less heavy team building restrictions making it easier to handle Darmanitan but if Darmanitan is banned Dracovish will become better without every team having scarf Darmanitan to revenge kill it. If Dracovish is currently considered to restrain teambuilding enough to warrant a suspect then I believe it could make sense to suspect it before Darmanitan and if banned evaluate the meta from there.

Having said all that I'm still in favor of quick banning Darmanitan. If Dracovish is suspected first, not banned then Darmanitan is it would lead to having to probably do another suspect of Dracovish. I am against suspecting Darmanitan because it is overwhelmingly obvious that it is broken in the current meta, but if you don't care about time wasted suspecting it it would make more sense to be thorough and start with suspecting Dracovish.

If the mods don't want a discussion on how Dracovish restraining teambuilding makes Darmanitan harder to deal with I'll remove that section and leave this talking about Centiskorch. However if such discussion isn't allowed I really don't see the point of this thread. Darmanitan is easily broken enough that everyone knows it deserves at least a suspect so spending 1-2 weeks deciding if gets suspected or quick banned seems wrong when a suspect test could have just been started right away,

 

[Zapperrix]

I'm in favor of quick banning Darmanitan but I feel like one of it's best counter isn't being talked about enough. On my stall teams I like to use Centiskorch as my Darmanitan answer because using bulky waters just doesn't work when they get worn down by U-Turn and also need to be able to answer Dracovish.

Centiskorch @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire/Flame Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Fire Lash
- Knock Off
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Scarf
252 Atk Darmanitan-Galar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Centiskorch: 130-154 (32.1 - 38.1%) -- 96.3% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Centiskorch: 108-128 (26.7 - 31.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Darmanitan-Galar U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Centiskorch: 38-45 (9.4 - 11.1%) -- possible 9HKO

Band
+1 252 Atk Darmanitan-Galar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Centiskorch: 195-230 (48.2 - 56.9%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Centiskorch: 163-192 (40.3 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 Atk Darmanitan-Galar U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Centiskorch: 57-67 (14.1 - 16.5%) -- possible 7HKO

The main problem with checking Darmanitan is you'll get worn down by U-Turn, which Centiscorch handles better than the other answers. It has access to Flash Fire, so you don't have to worry about the Flare Blitz calcs, however when I pair it with Dugtrio I actually prefer Flame Body. Obviously the chance to burn is nice and if Darmanitan does hit you with a Flare Blitz the recoil will put it into Stone Edge range as well as Centiskorch's Fire Lash if you weren't able to have Stealth Rocks up to do so.

Centiskorch isn't worthless outside of this role either. It counters Excadrill without a Rock move, Physical Aegislash without Head Smash and Leftovers Special sets, Cinderace with Flame Body. It also beats Bisharp, Conkeldurr, Corsola, Ferrothorn, Grimsnarl, Mandibuzz and Mimikyu

If you looked at Jellicent you would see it actually handles Darmanitan better but you lose the ability to kill it back and just sponge the hits until you're eventually weakened and killed. Depending on Jellicent, while a better counter places to much of a restriction on team building. You usually need your water Pokemon to handle Rain, Dracovish, and Cinderace and Darmanitan pairs well with all of these.

Having two pokemon that can reliably check it is not enough when we can see how well it performs in every single game. It's just stupid how easy it is to win with Choice Band Darmanitan on a rain team. I do however see an argument that if Dracovish were banned there'd be less heavy team building restrictions making it easier to handle Darmanitan but if Darmanitan is banned Dracovish will become better without every team having scarf Darmanitan to revenge kill it. If Dracovish is currently considered to restrain teambuilding enough to warrant a suspect then I believe it could make sense to suspect it before Darmanitan and if banned evaluate the meta from there.

Having said all that I'm still in favor of quick banning Darmanitan. If Dracovish is suspected first, not banned then Darmanitan is it would lead to having to probably do another suspect of Dracovish. I am against suspecting Darmanitan because it is overwhelmingly obvious that it is broken in the current meta, but if you don't care about time wasted suspecting it it would make more sense to be thorough and start with suspecting Dracovish.

If the mods don't want a discussion on how Dracovish restraining teambuilding makes Darmanitan harder to deal with I'll remove that section and leave this talking about Centiskorch. However if such discussion isn't allowed I really don't see the point of this thread. Darmanitan is easily broken enough that everyone knows it deserves at least a suspect so spending 1-2 weeks deciding if gets suspected or quick banned seems wrong when a suspect test could have just been started right away,

Your calcs did not account for the fact that Showdown's Damage Calculator does not include the damage boost from Gorilla Tactics.

Here are more accurate calcs:

Scarf:
+1 252 Atk Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Centiskorch: 103-122 (25.4 - 30.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+1 252 Atk Darmanitan-Galar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Centiskorch: 195-230 (48.2 - 56.9%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Centiskorch: 163-192 (40.3 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 Atk Darmanitan-Galar U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Centiskorch: 57-67 (14.1 - 16.5%) -- possible 7HKO

Band:
+1 252 Atk Choice Band Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Centiskorch: 155-183 (38.3 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 Atk Choice Band Darmanitan-Galar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Centiskorch: 292-344 (72.2 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Choice Band Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Centiskorch: 243-287 (60.1 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Choice Band Darmanitan-Galar U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Centiskorch: 85-100 (21 - 24.7%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

As you can see, Centiskorch is not a counter to Band Darmanitan-G at all; the physically defensive spread makes it a worse Life Orb Clefable check as well.

 

[xray]

Darmanitan-Galar is broken in any way and restricts teambuilding a lot. Therefore I think a Quickban is definitely the best idea. Darm forces you to waste at least like 2 slots to check/counter it per team. And even despite having a decent counter in Rotom-H for example, Darm might just click Banded Rock Slide / Stone Edge and fuck you up or it just uturns out and gains momentum. Darms sheer power thanks to its ability is just insane and not healthy for the metagame. Combined with a good movepool and good overall stats this mon is just broken and definitely shapes the OU metagame in a bad way.

 

[Robot7620]

Darmanitan-Galar is broken in any way and restricts teambuilding a lot. Therefore I think a Quickban is definitely the best idea. Darm forces you to waste at least like 2 slots to check/counter it per team. And even despite having a decent counter in Rotom-H for example, Darm might just click Banded Rock Slide / Stone Edge and fuck you up or it just uturns out and gains momentum. Darms sheer power thanks to its ability is just insane and not healthy for the metagame. Combined with a good movepool and good overall stats this mon is just broken and definitely shapes the OU metagame in a bad way.

It is definitely not on the quickban level.
Quickbans are reserved for blatantly broken pokemon like Gotithelle. While, I may not agree with an ability ban, I can see why it was implemented and it could've been more work to ban Gothorita if it became a problem. Also yes it can run Stone Edge to hit Heattom, but then you lose the ability to hit Pex if you switch out for EQ, Ferrothorn if you switch out for FBlitz, and losing an ability to gain momentum and chip away at would-be counters if you replace U-Turn.
That being said, I want to talk about Band specificaly.
An ability to bluff Scarf is so useful, and I've sent it in against something like, say, Dragapult, bluffing Scarf and dealing like 60% to washttom w/ U-Turn. I personally do think it needs to go, but it's definitely no where as broken as others make it out to be.

 

[volx757]

It is definitely not on the quickban level.
Quickbans are reserved for blatantly broken pokemon like Gotithelle. While, I may not agree with an ability ban, I can see why it was implemented and it could've been more work to ban Gothorita if it became a problem. Also yes it can run Stone Edge to hit Heattom, but then you lose the ability to hit Pex if you switch out for EQ, Ferrothorn if you switch out for FBlitz, and losing an ability to gain momentum and chip away at would-be counters if you replace U-Turn.
That being said, I want to talk about Band specificaly.
An ability to bluff Scarf is so useful, and I've sent it in against something like, say, Dragapult, bluffing Scarf and dealing like 60% to washttom w/ U-Turn. I personally do think it needs to go, but it's definitely no where as broken as others make it out to be.

There's no objective 'level' for an element to be quickbanned. People are calling for a quickban because there have been very, very few arguments made against a ban, and those that have been made have been pretty weak/uninformed. If you are adding in yet another voice saying it should be banned, that just strengthens the argument for a quickban. Council is trying to be extra cautious this gen after some pr complaints piled up, but I don't think galar darm is the right case to move slowly and cautiously on. It really will be a waste of time confirming what is already blatantly clear from this thread, the mon will be banned in a suspect.