Challenge One of the hardest Pokemon questions of all time

[LightningLord2]

The Solution:

Solution

It's Ditto. Our opponent has to be a Kecleon with Brick Break, Skill Swap, Feint Attack and Ancientpower. WE can't bring 4 moves, but the opponent can. As we morph into the Pokémon who is capable of SEing everything, we solved this challenge.

 

[Imanalt]

The Solution:

Solution

It's Ditto. Our opponent has to be a Kecleon with Brick Break, Skill Swap, Feint Attack and Ancientpower. WE can't bring 4 moves, but the opponent can. As we morph into the Pokémon who is capable of SEing everything, we solved this challenge.

Again, this is one of many co-operative solutions where, if your opponent does what you want, it can be done. However, if you aren't facing that particular set, it doesnt work, and thus to me at least is clearly not a solution

 

[Antihaxxer]

I'm ... disappointed

 

[LightningLord2]

A non-cooperative opponent shuts down any solution not involving a fast Pokémon or Damp as we might face an Electrode that explodes on the first turn.

 

[Korlashh]

The Solution:

It's Ditto.

It fails to hit vaporeon super-effectively, since vaporeon doesn't have any grass or electric move (hidden powers don't count).

This likely fails for many other pokemon as well. Ditto is not even a co-operative solution.

Edit: And btw, I don't think you can cheat the system by copying an opposing kecleon with 4 moves at your disposal. But who knows what the Japanese community is thinking.

 

[Codraroll]

A non-cooperative opponent shuts down any solution not involving a fast Pokémon or Damp as we might face an Electrode that explodes on the first turn.

Not at all.

There is a middle ground between "Doing everything in its power to help you achieve the SE hit" and "Doing everything in its power to prevent you from doing so". The question states that you should be able to get a SE hit on every Pokémon species, which is not to say the opponent is at lvl. 100 and controlled by a capable opponent knowing your strategy and being hell-bent on disrupting it by tailoring his Pokémon's build to mess things up for you. The way I see it, you're meant to be able to land a hit on a Pokémon of this species without it actively helping you (which would have to be the case for the Ditto solution to work, and even that is screwed up by 'mons such as Metapod or Tynamo), but also without it actively hindering you (such self-KO-ing while you set up).

We're assuming that the opponent holds no item, and it remains ambigous whether or not it has to work for all possible abilities (No Pokémon has Magic Bounce as its only ability, apart from Megas which would require a violation of the "no items" clause). That's the criteria.

And, if we're not having a requirement of by-passing all abilities, the Golduck in the OP would be a correct answer.

 

[hard]

Fissure Steelix vs Hoothoot was quite cooperative, wasn´t it?

But it can´t be a fixed opponent, as you have to hit every Pokemon super effectively, so using Skill Swap Kecleon seems to be one of the more likely choices.

 

[roxanne]

Trick-or-Treat gourgeist with rock smash/focus blast and shadow sneak/any ghost move?

Trick-or-treat adds ghost to enemy typing, which it can then hit for supereffective damage.
Doesn't work on normal type, hence rock smash?

edit: realised the moment I posted this that sableye/spiritomb. >:(

 

[Imanalt]

Fissure Steelix vs Hoothoot was quite cooperative, wasn´t it?

But it can´t be a fixed opponent, as you have to hit every Pokemon super effectively, so using Skill Swap Kecleon seems to be one of the more likely choices.

I explained a couple of pages back why skill swap color change can not work, is there another ability that can work against an uncooperative opponent?

 

[Qazoo306]

It's painful how close everyone is. Skill swap keckleon is the solution, but it isn't skill swap with color change. Every pokemon learns a normal type move. Even magikarp and beldum! So how is this, keckleon with PROTEAN using skill swap. The opponent makes their mon a normal type and keckleon uses any fighting move.

QED (??)

 

[Grey Waves]

It's painful how close everyone is. Skill swap keckleon is the solution, but it isn't skill swap with color change. Every pokemon learns a normal type move. Even magikarp and beldum! So how is this, keckleon with PROTEAN using skill swap. The opponent makes their mon a normal type and keckleon uses any fighting move.

QED (??)

Firstly, Skill Swap doesn't affect Ghost types. Secondly, not every Pokemon learns a Fighting type move. Thirdly, having your opponent use a move comes under the "cooperative opponent" thing, which is not allowed.

I keep thinking that the answer has got something to do with a Ring Target, but the only way that can be given to the opponent is through Trick or Switcheroo, which uses up a moveslot. Has anyone checked if Basculin gets any new moves come ORAS?

 

[JebusChrist]

Firstly, Skill Swap doesn't affect Ghost types. Secondly, not every Pokemon learns a Fighting type move. Thirdly, having your opponent use a move comes under the "cooperative opponent" thing, which is not allowed.

I keep thinking that the answer has got something to do with a Ring Target, but the only way that can be given to the opponent is through Trick or Switcheroo, which uses up a moveslot. Has anyone checked if Basculin gets any new moves come ORAS?

It is supposed to be possible in the X/Y meta, so no ORAS stuff.

 

[Lady Vader]

Firstly, Skill Swap doesn't affect Ghost types.

Um...yes it does. Ghosts aren't immune to Psychic-types. Also, since problems with Sableye/Spiritomb is of the "can't change Ghost/Dark to pure Dark" variety than "Can't use Skill Swap", even Dark-types aren't immune to it. Certain abilities are immune (Wonder Guard, Stance Change, Multitype), but there is no type-based immunity.

 

[Grey Waves]

Um...yes it does. Ghosts aren't immune to Psychic-types. Also, since problems with Sableye/Spiritomb is of the "can't change Ghost/Dark to pure Dark" variety than "Can't use Skill Swap", even Dark-types aren't immune to it. Certain abilities are immune (Wonder Guard, Stance Change, Multitype), but there is no type-based immunity.

Sorry, I derped and thought it was a Normal-type move.

 

[Qazoo306]

Um...yes it does. Ghosts aren't immune to Psychic-types. Also, since problems with Sableye/Spiritomb is of the "can't change Ghost/Dark to pure Dark" variety than "Can't use Skill Swap", even Dark-types aren't immune to it. Certain abilities are immune (Wonder Guard, Stance Change, Multitype), but there is no type-based immunity.

The only pokemon with wonder guard, the only pokemon with no normal moves, and the only pokemon with stance change do have 1 major thing in common; a weakness to fire. If you add a fire move to that (fire punch or flamethrower) then it does work, right?

 

[roxanne]

The only pokemon with wonder guard, the only pokemon with no normal moves, and the only pokemon with stance change do have 1 major thing in common; a weakness to fire. If you add a fire move to that (fire punch or flamethrower) then it does work, right?

You're restricted to three moves. Currently, your set is skill swap/fighting move/fire move. I suppose it would work, but it requires an opponent co-operating with you to pull it off, which I'm not sure is allowed.
Sound logic, though :)

 

[Imanalt]

The only pokemon with wonder guard, the only pokemon with no normal moves, and the only pokemon with stance change do have 1 major thing in common; a weakness to fire. If you add a fire move to that (fire punch or flamethrower) then it does work, right?

This solution has already been proposed, but its pretty well agreed that a co-operative solution (that is, one that relies on your opponents to make certain moves for it to work) is really against the spirit of the challenge, and is probably not the intended solution

 

[Qazoo306]

This solution has already been proposed, but its pretty well agreed that a co-operative solution (that is, one that relies on your opponents to make certain moves for it to work) is really against the spirit of the challenge, and is probably not the intended solution

Aww :(. I just read through the previous pages, and someone had a point that the example question that person who started the thread put up on page 2 and that solution was cooperative (unless the opponent just really sucked (and if he sucks HYPER BEAM EVERYTHING so normal moves)).

I don't have a solution, but can freeze dry help work in the solution? Soak + freeze dry + some coverage??

Edit: sorry about the double post.

 

[aVocado]

I don't have a solution, but can freeze dry help work in the solution? Soak + freeze dry + some coverage??

Edit: sorry about the double post.

Nothing besides Smeargle learns both.

 

[Qazoo306]

Nothing besides Smeargle learns both.

Ok. It was just a thought

 

[JXDK]

Did the poster say when he would pose the solution?
If not then someone should ask him on twitter xd

 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

I signed up just to post this.

I have been thinking about this puzzle a lot, and have taken a bunch of notes on it. I want to share them with others to see if I overlooked anything, and just to provide a nice overview of possible solutions to the puzzle, why they don't work, and what it would take to make them work. A lot of this information can already be found throughout the thread.

The Puzzle as I Understand It

Find a Pokemon that can hit any Pokemon super effectively by using a combination of three moves (or fewer) in a 1v1 battle.

Any Pokemon is taken to mean any species of Pokemon, using any of its available abilities (this part was clarified by the person who made up the puzzle) and any legal combination of its moves (this part was not, but I would assume it since all possible abilities are to be taken into account).
1v1 is taken to mean that there will not be any other Pokemon in having any effect on the battle. Nothing will change the enemy Pokemon's ability, for example, or set up any terrain effects of weathers or anything else that might change the situation. Pokemon will also not switch out.
The opponent will not be carrying an item, which removes Arceus formes and Mega Pokemon.

From this it already follows that Skill Swap Protean is no solution to the puzzle, as it can't be assumed that a Pokemon will carry a certain type of move.

Below are some routes to solve the puzzle I have looked at, what you need to take into account for them, and some notes on specific unsuccessful solutions I have tried. When I say "hit", I mean super effectively hit.

Soak

You will need to...
-Hit Water immune 'mons
-Hit Magic Bounce 'mons (Xatu, Espeon)
Edit: -Hit Arceus

A few things of note:
Xatu and Espeon can both be hit by Dark and Ghost, so if you can hit all Water immune 'mons in two moves (one of which is Soak), this puzzle is solved by adding a Dark or Ghost move.
There is no type that hits all water immune 'mons by itself, so the above situation is impossible.
Of the Water-immune 'mons, only Cradily, Maractus, Gastrodon, Lanturn, Quagsire, Cactrune, Seismitoad, Parasect, Jynx, Toxicroak and Heliolisk (and their pre-evos, I will leave out this part in the future) cannot be hit by Electric type moves.
Only Mantine, Cacturne, Maractus, Paras, Jynx, Toxicroak, Heliolisk and Cradily cannot be hit by Grass type moves.
Only Cacturne, Maractus, Parasect, Jynx, Toxicroak and Cradily cannot be hit by a combination of Grass and Electric.

If an Electric type move is used as the first attacking move with Soak, Grass coverage will be needed to hit Gastrodon and Seismitoad, as it is their only weakness. As can be seen above, that misses a few water immune mons and Espeon.
If a Grass type move, but no Electric type move is used, Toxicroak and Cradily share no weaknesses, so no single move will cover both of them.
The only other move that hits water super effective is Freeze-Dry, but the combination of Soak and Freeze-Dry is illegal on all Pokemon.

Octillery gets Soak, Entrainment and Charge Beam, which allows it to hit all Water immune mons, but misses out on Espeon (which it could hit with Signal Beam if it wanted to; Perfect SE coverage in 4 moves, Octillery for S rank!). Espeon could Skill Swap away its own Magic Bounce, if "any combination of moves is possible" was not specified, though, so if Protean counts as a solution, this counts as well.

Tricking a Ring Target on Water immune or Magic Bounce 'mons does nothing, since it only affects immunities gained through typing, not immunities gained through abilities.

As far as I can tell, only Skill Swap removes Magic Bounce, and only Mold Breaker and its clones ignore it. Gastro Acid, Simple Beam, Worry Seed and Entrainment are reflected. Only Basculin gets Mold Breaker Soak, but it gets no moves with which it could hit a Water type.

Edit: In addition to everything above, Arceus is unaffacted by Soak because of Multitype. This means that a Soak set that is to solve this Puzzle must include a Fighting type move, which is Arceus only natural weakness. A set of Mold Breaker, Soak, a Grass or Electric Move and a Fighting move fulfills all those criteria in theory, but is illegal on all Pokemon.

Forrest's Curse

You will need to...
-Hit Grass plus any existing combination of types
-Hit the Magic Bounce 'mons

Only Trevenant gets this move, so there are a lot fewer possibilities here.

When can a move hit a 'mon after Grass Type is added? Only if the 'mon didn't resist moves Grass is weak to before.
So, any Pokemon without a resist to Fire, Bug, Ice, Poison or Flying gets hit.
Of those types, Trevenant has access to Posion in Poison Jab, Bug in X-Scissor and Ice in Nature Power in the snow.

Steel resist all three of these types, so if you use two of them together with Forrest's Curse, you will not be able to hit any Steel types.
Trevenant gets Ground and Fighting type attacks to hit Steel types.
Neither of those hit Skarmory, so if you want to hit it you have to go with Ice as your other attacking type.

Ice and Fighting gets blocked by Tentacruel among others.
Ice and Ground gets blocked by Surskit among others.

So as far as I can tell, Trevenant can't get perfect coverage in three moves.
Trick-or-Treat

You will need to...
-Hit Ghost plus any existing combination of types
-Hit the Magic Bounce 'mons

Only Gourgeist gets this move.

Already, this seems more promising from the start, as you can hit Espeon and Xatu with the Dark or Ghost move you use to hit everything that Trick-or-Treat works on.

Assuming Ghost is chosen as the first attacking type:
There are two main problems here. You will want to be able to hit Dark and Normal types. Normal types are immune to Ghost type moves, so even after Trick-or-Treat your Ghost attack will not hit them.
Gourgeist gets Fighting type coverage in Focus Blast, which gives unresisted neutral coverage. However, Spiritomb still can't be hit, as it already is Ghost type it's not possible to give it an extra weakness with Trick-or-Treat. I believe a set of Trick-or-Treat, Trick, a Ghost move and a Fighting move with a Ring Target should be able to hit everything.
It would be possible to hit Normal types after Trick-or-Treat by tricking them a Ring Target. But that means that Dark types still can't be hit.

Assuming Dark as the first attacking type:

Now it is necessary to find a way to hit Dark, Fairy and Fighting types. Fighting coverage runs into the same problem as before, Spiritomb still can't be hit.
The only other option to hit Dark types that Gourgeist gets is Nature Power in misty terrain, which is a Fairy move. This comes close to perfect neutral coverage and notably hits Spiritomb, but misses out on Mawile and Klefki, who resist both Dark and Fairy.
Adding a Fire move would, again, provide perfect coverage.

I might be missing something here, but I believe Gourgeist is also unable to hit all 'mons.

Skill Swap Colour Change

You will need to...
-Hit Arceus
-Hit Aegislash
-Hit Shedinja
-Hit Zoroark

Only Kecleon can do this.

The above four Pokemon can't have their Abilities Skill Swapped (although I am unsure if Zoroark can be Skill Swapped after being hit; it makes no difference, however).

Fighting hits Arceus and Zoroark.
Ghost, Fire and Dark hit Aegislash and Shedinja.

As far as I can tell, Fighting will be necessary, since you can't hit Arceus in any other way. This means it is necessary to have another move that can hit Aegislash and Shedinja.
If a Dark type move is used, Spiritomb can't be hit, as it is already Dark type and won't change to pure Dark through Colour Change.
Same for Ghost type moves. Fire hits Spiritomb, but not SE. It can't be exploited with Colour Change and Fighting alone.
A set of Skill Swap, a Dark move, a Fighting move, and a Fire move would be able to hit everything.

Tricking a Ring Target to Ghosts would make it possible for them to be hit by Fighting type moves, but if a moveset of Skill Swap, Trick, Fighting Type move with Ring Target is used, it's still impossible to hit most Pokemon, since Fighting can't exploit Colour Change on its own.
A set of Skill Swap, a Dark move, a Fighting move, and Trick with Ring Target would be able to hit everything, I believe.

It is important to note that it is not necessary to hit Spiritomb super effectively, only be able to hit it at all and make it change type.
However, to solve this puzzle, the type used to hit Spiritomb must either be SE against fighting, have Fighting be SE against it, or be SE against itself, since there are only two moves left after using Skill Swap.

SE against itself
Ghost was already discussed.
Kecleon does not get Dragon moves.

SE against Fighting
Flying and Psychic can't hit Aegislash.
Kecleon does not get Fairy moves.

Fighting SE against
Dark was already discussed.
Normal, Ice, Rock and Steel can't hit Aegislash.

So there is no possible type that hits all 'mons we need to hit together with a Fighting move.

So where does that leave us?
I believe that Skill Swap Colour Change is proven not to work, by exhaustion. No set of Skill Swap, Fighting Move, Second Attacking Move hits all four 'mons above and Spiritomb. It might be possible if Fighting is not needed after all, somehow.

I also think Forrest's Curse is proven not to work, since Trevenant just does not have the movepool to do it. If there is a combination of two attacking types that gets perfect neutral coverage, and hits all Grass type super effectively, that combination would solve the puzzle, I believe, but Trevenant does not get it if it exists.

In a similar way, Trick-or-Treat does not seem to work. A type combination that gets perfect neutral coverage in two attacks and hits all Ghost types super effectively would make this work, like Scrappy Fighting/Ghost.

At this point, Soak seems like the best bet, if there is a way to remove Magic Bounce that a Pokemon with Soak gets.
Basculin comes so close, but falls just short.

There is also the possibility that I missed another way to make it possible to hit enemies super effectively, but I can't at the moment see any way other than to change the opponents typing, for which I believe I exhausted all options.

 

[Mulan15262]

One problem with Soak/Entrainment/grass move Octillery is that Soak and Entrainment are both blocked by Multitype. Other than that one exception, Octillery can hit all pokemon for SE damage.

 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

One problem with Soak/Entrainment/grass move Octillery is that Soak and Entrainment are both blocked by Multitype. Other than that one exception, Octillery can hit all pokemon for SE damage.

Every Soak user (so, also Octillery) is blocked by Magic Bounce, unless they have Mold Breaker (or Skill Swap).
However, it is correct that Soak is blocked by Multitype as well; I did not previously take this into account. So now a set to solve this puzzle that uses Soak also needs to have a Fighting move for Arceus. As far as I can tell, Mold Breaker Soak, an Electric or Grass move, as well as a Fighting move would work, but no Pokemon gets all these things.

I also realized that if Soak, but no way to remove abilities is used, Sap Sipper and the abilities that give Electric immunity are still problems. This is not important, however, as for a Soak set to work at all, it is necessary to have a way to remove Magic Bounce, and by extension all other removable abilities.

I am still not sure if Forrest's Curse and Trick-or-Treat can affect a 'mon with Multitype. I don't believe it matters, however, as I already explained above why I don't think Forrest's Curse or Trick-or-Treat are likely to solve the puzzle, anyway.

 

[Mulan15262]

Every Soak user (so, also Octillery) is blocked by Magic Bounce, unless they have Mold Breaker (or Skill Swap).
However, it is correct that Soak is blocked by Multitype as well; I did not previously take this into account. So now a set to solve this puzzle that uses Soak also needs to have a Fighting move for Arceus. As far as I can tell, Mold Breaker Soak, an Electric or Grass move, as well as a Fighting move would work, but no Pokemon gets all these things.

I also realized that if Soak, but no way to remove abilities is used, Sap Sipper and the abilities that give Electric immunity are still problems. This is not important, however, as for a Soak set to work at all, it is necessary to have a way to remove Magic Bounce, and by extension all other removable abilities.

I am still not sure if Forrest's Curse and Trick-or-Treat can affect a 'mon with Multitype. I don't believe it matters, however, as I already explained above why I don't think Forrest's Curse or Trick-or-Treat are likely to solve the puzzle, anyway.

Octillery would not be blocked by Magic Bounce because it can get rid of Magic Bounce with Entrainment before using Soak.