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Social Online Dating

Dating apps is…interesting lol I have it a try a few years ago wasn’t for me. However I wouldn’t discourage it. One thing I’d say it can help break out your shell a bit if you are shy talking to people. I think it’s always good to get to know new people. Only a small percent of it come out being a relationship but you never know. I wouldn’t go in with too much high hopes finding something serious though but then again as I said you never know. My thing is take that experience and apply it to yourself whether it works or not.
 
I tried out online dating when I was 19 and had a really negative experience with it. Only got 2 matches in the month I used it, both were girls who only had Tinder profiles to boost their insta. I guess I was too young and, idk, I guess angry (?) for it. Got really frustrated by never getting a match and it fucked over my confidence for a good while

Been thinking about trying it out again. I rarely meet new people and I am only really around people who are 5-10 years older than me, I would prefer having someone who's roughly my age (but I mean, if I met some woman in her 30s who I get along really well, my inner Kakyoin won't say no). I actually look good according to most people around me, like I get compliments regularly for how I look and I suppose it could work if I had some good pics. Idk. Let's see how it will go
 
As a man dating apps really only work if you're extremely good looking or a 'chad' and here's why.

Women are biologically hypergamous and will only want to match someone who they perceive is better or the very least at the same level in terms of attractiveness and overall looks. Jordan Peterson says it well - 'women mate across and up hierarchies, men mate across and down'.

Since dating apps are all about looks as your photos are really the only legit impressions you can give to the opposite sex, unless you're very good looking as a man, you're probably not going to have any success on online dating apps as a man.
 
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Ashaebi said:
Women are biologically hypergamous and will only want to match someone who they perceive is better or the very least at the same level in terms of attractiveness and overall looks. Jordan Peterson says it well - 'women mate across and up hierarchies, men mate across and down'.
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Look I don't know if you're ironic here or not, but seeing the world this way is genuinely extremely damaging to oneself either way.

There is no proof or indication that women are "biologically hypergamous". There is contention among scientists whether humans are naturally mono- or polygamous, but most things indicate that we are, unlike other great apes, monogamous. Jordan Peterson is no way any kind of authority on this, he's a psychologist and a VERY questionable one at that. He has no grasp on biology or sociology, which shows itself due to him almost killing himself by exclusively eating beef for a long while. Even the fact that he uses the word "mate" and "hierarchies", it's human lives, no animal documentary. Jordan Peterson's entire schtick revolves around breaking things down in a way that sounds scientific and legitimate, but at the end it all only serves to predate on men who lack male role models and have them as buyers of your books and listeners to your podcasts. There's a reason why he tries so hard to appear fatherly with the whole "clean up your room" mentality, and the fact that he exclusively covers things that focus on men without role models only makes it clearer

And whilst this is nothing I can prove scientifically, it's something the vast majority of people conclude once people got around different circles of people and facets of society: the absolute majority of women don't have social hierarchy as their most important topic when dating. Obviously it is a factor, but so is for men. In general, having had female friends and talking with them openly has shown me that women really are extremely alike to men, and that connotations about the opposite gender only come up when you try to view them as completely different. When dating, the importance of certain factors are mostly the exact same among most men and women

You seem very cynical but things really aren't this bleak. If you can go with the flow, remain natural, be good at conservation and care for the other person, dating will go well eventually, even with people who might be seen as more attractive or higher on the social ladder. I know just as many couples where the woman looks better and has more cash than the man as the other way around. And whilst this might seem anecdotonal, I am sure that going out, looking around more, meeting new people and "taking off the blinders" will make you see things the same way
 
Ashaebi said:
As a man dating apps really only work if you're extremely good looking or a 'chad' and here's why.

Women are biologically hypergamous and will only want to match someone who they perceive is better or the very least at the same level in terms of attractiveness and overall looks. Jordan Peterson says it well - 'women mate across and up hierarchies, men mate across and down'.

Since dating apps are all about looks as your photos are really the only legit impressions you can give to the opposite sex, unless you're very good looking as a man, you're probably not going to have any success on online dating apps as a man.
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if only there were some way to look better and give ppl a better impression... perhaps by not telling them you are an incel. studies show that ppl who believe in Jordan Peterson have low-self esteem and poor body image so even though they are normal to above average in terms of attractiveness they have low self-efficacy. thus they continue to fail to find ppl to bang and then blame it on 'biology'.
 
Ashaebi said:
'women mate across and up hierarchies, men mate across and down'
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So basically, women just date 6'0" men and up? Lol jk

Though overall I agree with your last statement when it comes to online dating. First impressions matter A LOT here since that's the only thing that would be helping you. No mutual friends, most likely very different line of work/school, less opportunuties to regularly see each other, etc.

Local Dog said:
I tried out online dating when I was 19 and had a really negative experience with it. Only got 2 matches in the month I used it, both were girls who only had Tinder profiles to boost their insta. I guess I was too young and, idk, I guess angry (?) for it. Got really frustrated by never getting a match and it fucked over my confidence for a good while

Been thinking about trying it out again. I rarely meet new people and I am only really around people who are 5-10 years older than me, I would prefer having someone who's roughly my age (but I mean, if I met some woman in her 30s who I get along really well, my inner Kakyoin won't say no). I actually look good according to most people around me, like I get compliments regularly for how I look and I suppose it could work if I had some good pics. Idk. Let's see how it will go
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Might I suggest you could use some photo filtering apps to make your photos look better? I know they get a lot of negative connotation from guys, but I know women that use those to make their photos look better (and it's super effective!). Just don't filter too much, removing acne and such is fine.

Don't lose hope!
 
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MegaFlareon said:
Might I suggest you could use some photo filtering apps to make your photos look better? I know they get a lot of negative connotation from guys, but I know women that use those to make their photos look better (and it's super effective!). Just don't filter too much, removing acne and such is fine.
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Thanks for the advice but I look alright. No supermodel or something but I get called handsome sometimes (really weird to write this though). I was just never good at taking pictures of myself. Some of my friends are good with the camera, I think I'll ask them to snap some shots after my next barber visit :)
 
MegaFlareon said:
Might I suggest you could use some photo filtering apps to make your photos look better? I know they get a lot of negative connotation from guys, but I know women that use those to make their photos look better (and it's super effective!). Just don't filter too much, removing acne and such is fine.
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please no. There's some argument that you have to because everyone else does, so you have to raise yourself to a certain standard to remain visible in the dating pool, but you're just gonna disappoint whoever is meeting you. So while it might help you get more first dates, you're not gonna get any more second dates, plus wasting everyone's time more.

Besides, it's not difficult to spot filters and if you've applied them to all your photos, that's a huge red flag.
 
Local Dog said:
Thanks for the advice but I look alright. No supermodel or something but I get called handsome sometimes (really weird to write this though). I was just never good at taking pictures of myself. Some of my friends are good with the camera, I think I'll ask them to snap some shots after my next barber visit :)
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yeah get some good photos. And the golden rule is if dating apps are getting to you, log off. You won't get anywhere on them if you're not in a good mood.
 
Ashaebi said:
As a man dating apps really only work if you're extremely good looking or a 'chad' and here's why.

Women are biologically hypergamous and will only want to match someone who they perceive is better or the very least at the same level in terms of attractiveness and overall looks. Jordan Peterson says it well - 'women mate across and up hierarchies, men mate across and down'.

Since dating apps are all about looks as your photos are really the only legit impressions you can give to the opposite sex, unless you're very good looking as a man, you're probably not going to have any success on online dating apps as a man.
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is that why I'm so picky about my men?

Just going to get this out of the way: Jordan Peterson gives incredibly shitty advice and his popularity has more to do with right-wing promotional networks than any actual credibility as a philosopher or as a psychologist. In fact, he's currently facing disciplinary action by a professional organisation for psychologists because he suggested a man should kill himself, and trying to spin it as the "woke mob" being out to get him. He's a sociopathic crackpot and no one should listen to him about anything.

What I can gather from your adoption of his framework however is that you clearly have a low sense of self-worth and use his framework to justify it. Women also do not "mate across and up hierarchies," one of my best friends is a high-profile sex worker making six figures on OnlyFans who married a twig-skinny, balding computer geek, which I have no doubt completely defies "hierarchies" as you and Peterson have conceptualised them. I get told a lot now from women I used to go to high school with that they were too intimidated to ask me out back when I was younger and muscle-bound. A couple of days ago I visited one and came home at 3 in the morning with half a dozen hickeys and bite marks as a memento, "despite" the fact that I've gained a shitload of weight since my assault and COVID and am unemployed. This is all about how you perceive yourself and others when you strike out, and isn't a reflection of your actual worth.

Cyrilesther said:
Hey, I totally get where you're coming from with your concerns about online dating. But for me, it was actually the only way I could meet someone since I work long hours and don't have a lot of free time. I was hesitant at first, but I ended up meeting my current girlfriend on a dating app, and we've been together since December. That being said, I do understand the risks involved, and it's important to be cautious when getting to know someone online. But I think there are ways to mitigate those risks, such as video chatting or meeting in a public place for the first few dates.If you're still hesitant, you might want to check out this video chat service I found at <spam link>. It allows you to talk to people in a safe and secure environment, and it might be a good alternative for those who aren't comfortable with traditional online dating.
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You robot motherfuckers are getting more sophisticated, I'll give you that.
 
2023 update:
tinder got a whole lot worse in the past three years - i quit it for good over a year ago. they're now monetising south east asian women willing to pay for the traveller feature to either learn english or find a rich (by their standards anyway) white dude to marry. i don't know which, and i really don't care. The traveller feature on these apps is 99% monetisation at the expense of anyone looking for some to date (aside from the edge case of someone scouting ahead to somewhere they're planning to travel to).

the apps are all converging, feature-wise. tinder and bumble caved in on letting men sending unsolicited messages, presumably now AI is sophisticated enough to block abusive users at scale. the apps themselves are still pieces of shit - hinge didn't send my messages until the next day when i re-opened the conversation to check if my match had responded. bumble's UI bombards you with notifications telling you to use your compliments and superlikes within 0.00000000000001s of them refilling. they've all adopted a feature where you get this "curated" list of people you can only spend the level 2 likes on (superlikes/roses), which I'm 99.6% sure is just the top 1% of profiles, and is designed to:
1. use them as bait for your money
2. to bombard them with so much choice that they develop decision paralysis and never leave, or force them to spend money on the features that allow them to filter users.
for any jordan peterson subscribers who think it's just men who get the sharp end of the stick - dating apps are a double-ended dildo. pegging is a gender-neutral activity. the female equivalent of superlikes and spotlight is the filter feature.

in keeping consistency with my experience on it however, i did get some pretty interesting stories out of it. one was a girl who had a height requirement in her bio that i didn't meet, which was why i sent a slightly sarcastic message for the sheer hell of it - knowing i wasn't gonna date her. turns out we hit it off immediately so when it to arranging a date i disclosed my height which she turned out to be okay with. the date went nowhere though because we didn't click. the other story was about a girl who was so into me she agreed to go on a date before getting worried she hadn't done any DD on whether i was a deadbeat or not, which she did in a not-so-graceful way. Though when I pointed this out to her and decided not to see her she seemed quite understanding. And this has been a fairly consistent experience imo: whenever a woman acts like a jackass to me on dating apps they generally respond well to someone pointing it out to them, providing you do it with kindness. And it's what's encouraged me to continue to not ghost people

i've become a lot pickier about who i date now. Partly because of covid skewing the risk/reward of meeting someone, partly because I'm too busy to roll the dice on shitty dates, and partly because I have a much better sense of who/what I'm looking for. I've also learned not to try so hard on openers. I strongly suspect that I get likes on hinge due to a strong opener, but then they see the rest of my profile and think "nah". Besides, if I'm having to rehearse a bit to have a conversation i'm essentially catfishing people when they realise im not nearly as funny irl. It's a known problem for me because I spent my formative years online trying to win the approval and lol reacts from strangers on the internet (mostly on this very website), so a disparity between my wit online versus irl has developed

im also happy to say that i did meet someone that i'm seeing on and off on a continuous basis. That will probably stop if/when i enter a monogamous relationship, but honestly I'm just stoked to have made a genuine connection with someone on these infernal apps
 
Started again a month ago. Putting myself back on the online market for the first time in about 7 years. I paid a friend of mine for an afternoon of her time to take some nice photos of me, and I think it paid off! I get a lot more matches now, pushing 1-2 a week.

The bad news is the match quality in my less populated city at my age is pretty poor, and most of my promising prospects are 2 hours away in a number of neighboring cities. Just tempting enough to go on dates and roll the dice, but just inconvenient enough that you kind of start off on the wrong foot already contending with some distance. So that's been a frustrating struggle. This coupled with the fact that i'm less comfortable with dating straight out (as opposed to friends first) or this online stuff in general doesn't make it any easier.

I'm still a fucking weirdo with a lot of painfully niche hobbies, I'm still relatively inexperienced and awkward about actual relationship dynamics, but I've worked on myself a lot. I've got a thriving irl social life, a lot of interesting experiences, and I'm in better shape. I've always been genuine and I've always known what I wanted in a partner. It's just hard to get it.
 
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I've met someone fairly recently online, and it's going surprisingly well. I had a really bad breakup last year and it took some time to get over it. But it's nice to have someone (in my case) who shares a lot of hobbies, interests, and has some like-mindedness. I've never done the online dating thing before, so this is new to me, and I'll probably make some mistakes. But seems to be going well so far?
 
Hardly someone will want a serious compromise with another person to share their life... We got too comfortable on our phones and our needs that sometimes, society is forgettable for us.
 
Advice: if you're looking for an actual relationship and not just a hookup, Hinge is your app, not Tinder or Bumble. I had pretty much identical profiles on Tinder, Hinge, and Bumble, and my "success rate" (getting a match) was much, much higher on Hinge, as opposed to Tinder, which was even much higher than Bumble.

Not going to lie, from a male perspective, Bumble was few and far between when it came to matches. It was kind of disheartening because even when I did get a match the woman rarely messaged me. Tinder I had a lot higher match rate and it led to a decent amount of meetups (not necessarily hookups in all cases), but very few things seemed to stick over the years.

Once I started using Hinge though, I found a lot more success, I think most likely because of being able to send a message along with my like. It definitely makes you stick out more. I never had a go-to "opener" though either, I always would respond to a prompt (not a photo) with a genuine response and it led to a lot of matches, a lot of dates, and eventually, I found my girlfriend on Hinge. Our first date was in July and it's been going real smooth since then. She even knows I'm a Smogon super moderator (gasp) and that didn't turn her off lol. We both came in with the intention of taking it slow and making a genuine connection before getting physical, and I think that helped a lot too.

I think online dating can definitely be a challenge for a lot of people, but really, don't give up hope. Do I think you're probably more likely to meet someone that's right for you "the old-fashioned way?" (i.e. through mutual friends). Probably. But it's really not all doom and gloom like people make it out to be. If you...

1. Use the right app that coincides with your "expectations" from meetups
2. Build a profile/message people in a way that showcases your honest self
3. Try not to take your "match percentage" to heart

I think you'll find the experience much more enjoyable, and hopefully have some success with whatever your goals are.
 
GatoDelFuego said:
holy fucking god did they really gamify dating?????????????????????????
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haha this is not an actual stat that’s displayed (though you can track it through third party sites), I just meant in general if you actually keep track of matches vs. swipes it’s probably going to be disheartening so I wouldn’t recommend it

Oh also never pay for anything on the apps. I don’t have experience with premium features but I can’t imagine they’re worth it
 
I started online dating after 5 years again. I think a fundamental flaw they have is that they force you to stand out with your bio, which under the restrictions of text kinda force you to appear quirky and that, again, makes everyone just seem the same

Also they've gotten REALLY ham with the restrictions on free users. Really want to push you to pay up. There's no longer ways to get premium for free, which makes it extra annoying
 
Local Dog said:
I started online dating after 5 years again. I think a fundamental flaw they have is that they force you to stand out with your bio, which under the restrictions of text kinda force you to appear quirky and that, again, makes everyone just seem the same

Also they've gotten REALLY ham with the restrictions on free users. Really want to push you to pay up. There's no longer ways to get premium for free, which makes it extra annoying
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the fundamental flaw is that there's more money in breadcrumbing users than getting them into long-term relationships

my prediction is that over the next 30 years we're gonna see more government-sponsored dating programs like the marriage app in japan, because governments have the correct incentive - to pair people off so that they have kids and prevent demographic collapse.
 
cookie said:
the fundamental flaw is that there's more money in breadcrumbing users than getting them into long-term relationships
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yeah of course. Same reason why dating advice from non-personal sources are all detrimental

cookie said:
my prediction is that over the next 30 years we're gonna see more government-sponsored dating programs like the marriage app in japan, because governments have the correct incentive - to pair people off so that they have kids and prevent demographic collapse.
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mmh I don't know about that. I think we'll eventually realize that modernity and population growth aren't compatible and start changing systems that demand a growing population

Maybe Hinge is gonna work out. The prompts are just very... quirky and I frankly find that basic quirky girl who loves pumpkin spice latte to be not very attractive
 
cookie said:
the fundamental flaw is that there's more money in breadcrumbing users than getting them into long-term relationships

my prediction is that over the next 30 years we're gonna see more government-sponsored dating programs like the marriage app in japan, because governments have the correct incentive - to pair people off so that they have kids and prevent demographic collapse.
Click to expand...

call me crazy, but I cannot see apps being a solution to the ramifications of globalized industrialisation and income stratification. The issue isn't a lack of couples, the issue is a lack of affordability for having children in the first place.

But yes, apps like Tinder are terrible for forming relationships, it was a crapshoot to begin with but it's not really designed for that original purpose anymore, it's an enterprise dependent on short-term gratification and a sense of dependence on the app to locate partners.
 
I used dating apps the majority of my 20s and a little in my early 30s and have learned quite a bit about both myself and how to best leverage dating apps for successful relationships, casual dating, (and casual sex occasionally). I've also seen them used successfully by others.

I think a lot of you are making this way too complicated and missing the big picture. Going to try to keep this relatively short and number my points, as I tend to talk way too much about this kind of stuff

Dating apps are the epitome of law of large numbers:

1) The swipe/match/chat process is not perfect
2) People aren't perfect
3) You are not perfect
4) Dating is not perfect
5) Your self worth is not defined by acceptance of others. Your self worth is defined by you.

If you cannot accept all of the above, you shouldn't use dating apps.

Perhaps most importantly, if you are not in a good place from a mental health standpoint, I do not recommend using dating apps. This is from my own experience and experience of what I've seen with friends. There is far too much downside from impacts of getting rejected, entering into a codependent relationship off the bat, with your partner having to take on your mental struggles. This isn't to say you can't date if you are dealing with issues mentally, I am recommending staying off them if you are not actively working on yourself and feeling some sort of progress. Take care of yourself. You and your future partner will appreciate it.

All of that said, here's how I would approach dating apps

1) As far as the apps themselves go:

Tinder is the most casual and not as directed towards relationships. This does not mean it's just a "hook up app," as for example my cousin and her partner matched on Tinder in 2013 and are now happily married.

Bumble is geared more towards those serious about relationships. For those not aware, with Bumble the person you match with is the one who sends the first message. As an example, as a straight male, my female match messages first

Hinge is the most organized and you provide the most amount of information about yourself before you match with someone. It weeds out the people lazily using them because they're bored/simply want a hookup and have no intention of dating.

2) I've had the most success in terms of positive interactions, dating, and relationships from Bumble. Download it, and you make a profile

3) Your profile should represent who you honestly are and your best foot forward for a potential match to see. If you are serious about dating, put some in effort into showing a couple pictures of hobbies and pictures of yourself.

If you don't have any relatively current pictures of yourself, ask someone to take one of you doing your favorite hobby, or with a pet you're close with.

The same goes for what to write in your profile. Make it concise and say a few things about yourself. Your first impression shouldn't be anything more complicated than that.

when I moved to Indiana, mine was something like:

---

TX -> IN

Lover of all things outdoors, trying new restaurants, and binge watching new shows. Music enthusiast.

I drink and I know things.

---

In my profile, I quickly showed the potential match I just moved and some things I'm into. I also made a GOT reference since I was into the show and it'd be a great talking point.

That's it. Simple and enough for a potential match to get a glimpse of who you are.

4) I have to actually complete a pre-work hiring written assessment thing so going to hurry this up and will edit later on lmao

My view is conversations should be leveraged to write maybe 5-10 messages back and forth before meeting in person (if you're in the same town)

This seems quick I know, but it is literally 10x easier to evaluate if you and a potential partner would be a match if you interact in person. Typing on an app with random pictures and a paragraph of yourself can only do so much

Example of how things should ideally go. I'm doing this from a straight male perspective looking for a girl, as that is my experience and do not want to speak for ones I am not well versed in.

- Match with girl
- Girl messages "hey how are you" or something to the effect
- Respond with something more than "just chillin wbu." Maybe like "hey I'm doing well, just walked the dog and about to make dinner. what are you up to?"
- You've now given potential topics to talk about. Go with the flow on the convo.
- If convo is going well, ask for number
- Say hey it's x, how are you?
- Ask if they want to go on date, and you'd be free x day and y day.
- Go on date
- Placeholder for me to write a few more things about post-daye

5) Example of timing for efficiency, getting better feel for each other, and not scaring girl off with wanting to immediately go on date

Sunday PM: Girl matches and says hey how are you
Monday AM: Your response
Monday PM: Her response
Tuesday AM: you
Tuesday PM: her
Wed: same
Thurs AM: ask for her number, as it's easier to talk that way
Thurs PM: she gives it
Thurs PM: text after and say hey it's x, what are you up to?
Friday sometime: she responds
Friday sometime: "hey would you want to grab coffee at x place? haven't been but looks cool. I'd be free either tues or wed evening next week if either works for you"

Cool. Now you're going on a date with someone that would be a great fit. When you go on your date....

...will continue at somepoint

6) Now, let's pretend you're in a good spot mentally, financially you're good or at least you have a plan, and you're ready to do everything discussed.

Realistically, you're going to get rejected and told they just weren't into you. You're going to do the same thing. It happens, and a byproduct of finding a good match. Seems like the odds just aren't in my favor.

The odds are not in your favor...for a single date.

What I am about to say I feel so strongly about I think, when possible, this should be the approach to dating if mentally healthy yada yada yada

What if you treated dating as a college course or legitimate work you have to invest time in for the desired outcome? Might sound dumb, but if it's something you're serious about, put some effort into expecting something to appear out of thing air.

What if you followed my suggestions and positioned yourself to go on one date every 2 weeks?

What if you did that for a year?

You would have been on 26 dates with girls that 1) seemed cool from profile 2) had good back and forth messages and 3) liked enough to go on a date. I understand 26 seems like a lot and obviously is just a simplistic example we don't need to slice and dice, but what are the odds that one of 26 in person dates wouldn't lead to something more?

Depending on where you are and your schedule, I find it hard to believe you couldn't make once every 2 weeks work on average. Again, if you treat it like work, then you've put yourself in a better position for finding a good match.

----------------------------------------------------------

Dating apps have helped me

- Get into 3 serious relationships that were a positive experience for much of them
- Have a new best friend that I keep up with and talking about our dating lives
- Do fun things like go to concerts, play tennis, or smoke with while listening to Radiohead - In Rainbows

All of this to say: you are awesome so put yourself in a position to show an awesome person that you're awesome. go on awesome dates, marry this awesome person, and be awesome together

My OCD is going to make me clean a lot of this up.

Lemme know if you have any questions in this thread or shoot me a DM with any dating questions at al!!
 
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