ORAS FU Metagame Discussion (old)

[Melons-N-Soda]

Are there any other good Krokorok sets that aren't Scarf?

 

[Halcyon.]

Are there any other good Krokorok sets that aren't Scarf?

Gabite, Fraxure, Rapidash, Sawsbuck, and Seviper are all Scarf Pokemon I have used in the past month or so. There are also the Monkeys which can work with a Scarf although I haven't seen that in a while. Birds like Fearow and Unfeazant also work because of how good of a typing Flying is.

Oh and of course Modest Scarf Glaceon on hail is fun as fuck especially now that it doesn't have to worry about running Timid for Purugly :]

 

[Don Honchkrorleone]

Gabite, Fraxure, Rapidash, Sawsbuck, and Seviper are all Scarf Pokemon I have used in the past month or so. There are also the Monkeys which can work with a Scarf although I haven't seen that in a while. Birds like Fearow and Unfeazant also work because of how good of a typing Flying is.

Oh and of course Modest Scarf Glaceon on hail is fun as fuck especially now that it doesn't have to worry about running Timid for Purugly :]

I think Melons-N-Soda asked if Krokorok can do something else other than Scarf lel. It can be an effective defensive lead with Taunt, SR and Intimidate. Band Krok is also cool on Webs, though I prefer Pluto.

Also this is from me http://puu.sh/dkcot/3dfa2c169e.txt

Fire Spam + Ground spam. If not liking Tentacool, you can use Prinplup. I like Tentacool for Tspikes support and anti-Water (there is a misttake there. Use Acid Spray > Haze).

 

[Politoad]

I think Melons-N-Soda asked if Krokorok can do something else other than Scarf lel. It can be an effective defensive lead with Taunt, SR and Intimidate. Band Krok is also cool on Webs, though I prefer Pluto.

Also this is from me http://puu.sh/dkcot/3dfa2c169e.txt

Fire Spam + Ground spam. If not liking Tentacool, you can use Prinplup. I like Tentacool for Tspikes support and anti-Water (there is a misttake there. Use Acid Spray > Haze).

I find this a definite solid team, though I think Prinplup better as a second check to Ground-types which threaten Rapidash and Simisear. It can set up rocks, and if essential for the former two mons, remove it, and burn opponents with Scald. Also I think EQ > Bulldoze on Gogoat because it can 2HKO Metang. Because if you're running Bulldoze Metang can still Toxic you after switch in which is not appreciated as there are no clerics on this team.

Again, nice team, I'll definitely test it on an alt anytime soon.

 

[Skankovich]

I have a lil set for a really underused mon

ring ring (Chimecho) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 40 SpD / 96 Spe
Timid Nature
- Cosmic Power
- Stored Power
- Recover
- Taunt

Intended as a wincon for bulkier teams, Chimecho has a niche in that it beats all opposing bulky boosters with taunt, setting up on both Clefairy and SubBU Gogoat, while also setting up on Machoke and a whole host of stall mons that rely on status for damage (almost all of them in a tier run by eviolite). Taunt also prevents typical phasing in the form of Roar and Whirlwind (incredibly good moves due to limited hazard removal in this tier btw), which pretty much rules out phasing as a whole since Dragon Tail and Circle Throw are almost non-existent in this tier.

Psychic's weaknesses are more rare than usual in this tier, but Chimecho's mediocre bulk means it can't set up on heavy hitters and struggles with faster setup sweepers. This set is of course completely stopped by dark types, so remove them prior to attempting to sweep, but thats not much of a hassle when there's only handful down here.

Calm Mind is also an option instead of Cosmic Power to become threatening far more quickly, but it's far easier to stop and can't really do anything against offense.

 

[Politoad]

I have a lil set for a really underused mon

ring ring (Chimecho) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 40 SpD / 96 Spe
Timid Nature
- Cosmic Power
- Stored Power
- Recover
- Taunt

Intended as a wincon for bulkier teams, Chimecho has a niche in that it beats all opposing bulky boosters with taunt, setting up on both Clefairy and SubBU Gogoat, while also setting up on Machoke and a whole host of stall mons that rely on status for damage (almost all of them in a tier run by eviolite). Taunt also prevents typical phasing in the form of Roar and Whirlwind (incredibly good moves due to limited hazard removal in this tier btw), which pretty much rules out phasing as a whole since Dragon Tail and Circle Throw are almost non-existent in this tier.

Psychic's weaknesses are more rare than usual in this tier, but Chimecho's mediocre bulk means it can't set up on heavy hitters and struggles with faster setup sweepers. This set is of course completely stopped by dark types, so remove them prior to attempting to sweep, but thats not much of a hassle when there's only handful down here.

Calm Mind is also an option instead of Cosmic Power to become threatening far more quickly, but it's far easier to stop and can't really do anything against offense.

This thing is unexpectedly good. I have faced against u in the ladder some times and it was threatening. Sadly, this Pokemon is completely walled by Dark-types such as Zweilous and Vullaby like u said. Faster Taunt users such as Krokorok and Fraxure screw it up too.

 

[Don Honchkrorleone]

I find this a definite solid team, though I think Prinplup better as a second check to Ground-types which threaten Rapidash and Simisear. It can set up rocks, and if essential for the former two mons, remove it, and burn opponents with Scald. Also I think EQ > Bulldoze on Gogoat because it can 2HKO Metang. Because if you're running Bulldoze Metang can still Toxic you after switch in which is not appreciated as there are no clerics on this team.

Again, nice team, I'll definitely test it on an alt anytime soon.

Nah lol Bulldoze is to prevent things like Fraxure and Sawsbuck and other things from setting up speed so I can Revenge kill. I don't care for Metang with 4 checks lol. The only change I'd make would be to put Superpower to hit Sawsbuck on the switch. I actually tested Prinplup before, but the Tspikes (and the countering Simipour) are too good to pass out. That's why I also use Icy Wind on Pokemon that generally learn it.

 

[Politoad]

Nah lol Bulldoze is to prevent things like Fraxure and Sawsbuck and other things from setting up speed so I can Revenge kill. I don't care for Metang with 4 checks lol. The only change I'd make would be to put Superpower to hit Sawsbuck on the switch. I actually tested Prinplup before, but the Tspikes (and the countering Simipour) are too good to pass out. That's why I also use Icy Wind on Pokemon that generally learn it.

Thing is, I think, if Fraxure sets up a DD and you Bulldoze it, it still out speed sand KO. iirc Sawsbuck can set up SD, and still out speed after. SubSD Sawsbuck is a complete counter though.

 

[scorpdestroyer]

Thing is, I think, if Fraxure sets up a DD and you Bulldoze it, it still out speed sand KO. iirc Sawsbuck can set up SD, and still out speed after. SubSD Sawsbuck is a complete counter though.

the point is to keep their Speed at +0 so that its teammates can outspeed and KO more easily, not for Gogoat to outspeed and KO

 

[Clarisaxx22]

I have a lil set for a really underused mon

ring ring (Chimecho) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 40 SpD / 96 Spe
Timid Nature
- Cosmic Power
- Stored Power
- Recover
- Taunt

Intended as a wincon for bulkier teams, Chimecho has a niche in that it beats all opposing bulky boosters with taunt, setting up on both Clefairy and SubBU Gogoat, while also setting up on Machoke and a whole host of stall mons that rely on status for damage (almost all of them in a tier run by eviolite). Taunt also prevents typical phasing in the form of Roar and Whirlwind (incredibly good moves due to limited hazard removal in this tier btw), which pretty much rules out phasing as a whole since Dragon Tail and Circle Throw are almost non-existent in this tier.

Psychic's weaknesses are more rare than usual in this tier, but Chimecho's mediocre bulk means it can't set up on heavy hitters and struggles with faster setup sweepers. This set is of course completely stopped by dark types, so remove them prior to attempting to sweep, but thats not much of a hassle when there's only handful down here.

Calm Mind is also an option instead of Cosmic Power to become threatening far more quickly, but it's far easier to stop and can't really do anything against offense.

Clefairy does it better

EDIT:

Sorry about the one liner, my laptop died

Clefairy has way better bulk to use a stored power set, also has reliable recovery and doesn't give a single fuck to stall cuz it has magic guard, with moves like flamethrower to get past something that would wall it like metang or moonblast for scraggy.

 

[DaGuyWithAFace]

i've been messing around somewhat on the ladder and I gotta say there's plenty of NFE's who do some work. I've used a stall-ish Servine to excellent success, which i love. I'm loving the tier and I gotta say it's cool seeing some LC mons usable outside of LC :) I hope the meta evolves to include more NFE's

 

[Clarisaxx22]

i've been messing around somewhat on the ladder and I gotta say there's plenty of NFE's who do some work. I've used a stall-ish Servine to excellent success, which i love. I'm loving the tier and I gotta say it's cool seeing some LC mons usable outside of LC :) I hope the meta evolves to include more NFE's

To add to this, I've tried out Lileep with great success, using it like it's big brother Cradily.

I've been experimenting with quite a lot, mostly just fails, but Pupitar can run a somewhat ok DDance and Magnemite traps steels but is pretty awful without eviolite or magnet rise. Abra is also good on a scarf/LO set, working much better than Gastly due to its better speed and power

 

[Halcyon.]

i've been messing around somewhat on the ladder and I gotta say there's plenty of NFE's who do some work. I've used a stall-ish Servine to excellent success, which i love. I'm loving the tier and I gotta say it's cool seeing some LC mons usable outside of LC :) I hope the meta evolves to include more NFE's

To add to this, I've tried out Lileep with great success, using it like it's big brother Cradily.

I've been experimenting with quite a lot, mostly just fails, but Pupitar can run a somewhat ok DDance and Magnemite traps steels but is pretty awful without eviolite or magnet rise. Abra is also good on a scarf/LO set, working much better than Gastly due to its better speed and power

Never seen nor used Lileep so I won't comment. Magnemite loses to Metang, which is the only actually relevant steel in the tier. I remember one of the first FU teams I built was with Magnemite + Fraxure. It just didn't work. Abra is incredibly outclassed by Meowstic-F and Grumpig, the former of which is fast and has good coverage and the latter has Thick Fat making it a good offensive CM user for teams weak to Rapidash and Simisear. Pupitar could be ok but I'm not sure what it's setting up on and it's pretty weak even at +1 due to everything having Eviolite or natural bulk.

Remember that just because something is allowed in FU it doesn't necessarily make it viable unfortunately :[ there are still a lot of mons that outclass the NFEs save for a few exceptions (Quilladin, Clefairy, Fraxure, Hippo, etc).

That being said, does anyone know if the Contrary Serperior can be bread to give us Contrary Servine? Cause that could be cool.

 

[sickweare]

Never seen nor used Lileep so I won't comment. Magnemite loses to Metang, which is the only actually relevant steel in the tier. I remember one of the first FU teams I built was with Magnemite + Fraxure. It just didn't work. Abra is incredibly outclassed by Meowstic-F and Grumpig, the former of which is fast and has good coverage and the latter has Thick Fat making it a good offensive CM user for teams weak to Rapidash and Simisear. Pupitar could be ok but I'm not sure what it's setting up on and it's pretty weak even at +1 due to everything having Eviolite or natural bulk.

Remember that just because something is allowed in FU it doesn't necessarily make it viable unfortunately :[ there are still a lot of mons that outclass the NFEs save for a few exceptions (Quilladin, Clefairy, Fraxure, Hippo, etc).

That being said, does anyone know if the Contrary Serperior can be bread to give us Contrary Servine? Cause that could be cool.

I assume it will since every Pokemon capable of breeding can pass down its ability this gen.

 

[SacredGengar]

choice banded slaking is power. that is all.

 

[DaGuyWithAFace]

Never seen nor used Lileep so I won't comment. Magnemite loses to Metang, which is the only actually relevant steel in the tier. I remember one of the first FU teams I built was with Magnemite + Fraxure. It just didn't work. Abra is incredibly outclassed by Meowstic-F and Grumpig, the former of which is fast and has good coverage and the latter has Thick Fat making it a good offensive CM user for teams weak to Rapidash and Simisear. Pupitar could be ok but I'm not sure what it's setting up on and it's pretty weak even at +1 due to everything having Eviolite or natural bulk.

Remember that just because something is allowed in FU it doesn't necessarily make it viable unfortunately :[ there are still a lot of mons that outclass the NFEs save for a few exceptions (Quilladin, Clefairy, Fraxure, Hippo, etc).

That being said, does anyone know if the Contrary Serperior can be bread to give us Contrary Servine? Cause that could be cool.

Yes you can do that indeed, which will be amazing. Contrary Servine i see as possibly an epitome of bulky setup sweeper here, but we'll see it in practice in 6 days.

 

[Yellow Cheese]

with solrock dropping I would like to put out some set i've run in PU to some success (idk if they fit FU but whatever)



Solrock @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Will-O-Wisp
- Morning Sun
- Stone Edge / Zen headbutt

Probably going to be Solrocks base set, pretty bulky as it is barely 3KOed by Gabites Scarf Outrage, speed EVs to outspeed lead krokorok with 4 speed (do they run more?) and burn it.Stone edge is strongest STAB '(and uninvested 95 atk is pretty meh) but Zen hits arbok and machoke much harder and is therefor just as usable.

Solrock @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt / Double edge
- Rock Polish

looks like a decent cleaner. can set up on lots of choice mons thanks to typing+levitate (scarf simisear, Scarf krok not locked into knock off, band rapidash not locked into megahorn etc)
EdgeQuake is always good, Zen hits pretty hard on things that resist Stone miss and are not weak to EQ. Double edge hits krokorok hard if you're into that. Adamant 95 atk is pretty stronk in FU, here are some calcs on bulky shit

252+ Atk Life Orb Solrock Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Metang: 169-200 (52.3 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Solrock Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Electabuzz: 265-312 (97.7 - 115.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Solrock Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kingler: 168-199 (66.6 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Solrock Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Gabite: 142-169 (51.2 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Solrock Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Zweilous: 168-199 (48.2 - 57.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Solrock Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Clefairy: 138-164 (40.1 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (so close)
252+ Atk Life Orb Solrock Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 32 Def Gourgeist-Small: 153-183 (48.7 - 58.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Solrock Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Grumpig: 239-282 (65.6 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery


Edit: sunny day is pretty rad too


Some gimmicks that look fun:

Hide

Solrock @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt
- Explosion

Solrock @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Rock Slide
- Stealth Rock
- Trick Room
- Explosion¨

Solrock @ Choice Band
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Zen Headbutt
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Explosion / Double edge

Solrock @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Morning Sun
- Psyshock
- Earth Power

 

[Politoad]

I'm such a bitch commenting on so much posts

Clefairy does it better

EDIT:

Sorry about the one liner, my laptop died

Clefairy has way better bulk to use a stored power set, also has reliable recovery and doesn't give a single fuck to stall cuz it has magic guard, with moves like flamethrower to get past something that would wall it like metang or moonblast for scraggy.

It doesn't. While it does have access to Magic Guard which is cool, it means that it just is setup bait for things like Gogoat with Bulk Up (which has Max SpD), and for Pokemon such as Arbok. To beat those you must run Taunt which Clefairy does not have, and Toxic is no option either (miss out on a coverage move for Steel-types cannot be afforded, and it hits none of them, assuming Gogoat is Sub Bulk Up)

I feel its also just too slow to set up, and lacking Taunt is the biggest reason to not run it over Chimecho, as Clefairy can't have Unaware to prevent extra damage after set up. Even if it had it, it would easily die to Toxic (it does not outspeed common users such as Metang and Quilladin, and Chimecho does and it can just Taunt them and setup and recover. Clefairy is immune to Dragon Tail but I feel like that's very uncommon in the FU metagame).

 

[SacredGengar]

@ Yellow Cheese i suggest a set like this :
Solrock @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 224 HP / 252 Def / 28 SpD / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Rock Slide
- Morning Sun
- Stealth Rock
- Will-O-Wisp

Its the best set I've ever used in PU for Solrock!

 

[NotSoClutch]

Anyone else try Vibrava? I find it to be quite the interesting little defogger. It isn't affected by sticky web or spikes and it resits stealth rocks. It's speed tier, while not spectacular, is usable in the tier and its bulk is reasonable as well. With u-turn and roost it has some nice utility over other defoggers and it actually has the ability to wall a few threats like Arbok. I feel like it has some use.

 

[Yellow Cheese]

@ Yellow Cheese i suggest a set like this :
Solrock @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 224 HP / 252 Def / 28 SpD / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Rock Slide
- Morning Sun
- Stealth Rock
- Will-O-Wisp

Its the best set I've ever used in PU for Solrock!

What is the spdef for?

 

[Politoad]

Anyone else try Vibrava? I find it to be quite the interesting little defogger. It isn't affected by sticky web or spikes and it resits stealth rocks. It's speed tier, while not spectacular, is usable in the tier and its bulk is reasonable as well. With u-turn and roost it has some nice utility over other defoggers and it actually has the ability to wall a few threats like Arbok. I feel like it has some use.

This thing looks good, has some uses, but sadly, the top tier threats (Gogoat, Ebuzz, Machoke, Fraxure, Gabite, for example) all beat it 1v1 :[

 

[Don Honchkrorleone]

GARBAGE DAY (Delibird) (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Icy Wind
- Rapid Spin
- Destiny Bond​

Do you have problem with Sticky Web Leavanny/Masquerain/etc? Whirlipede troubles you? Need an exemplar hazard control method that won't take out your own? Got the reference? Well, in a test to put stuff in viability piratepad I found a nig that stops hazard teams cold: Enter Delibird. Once a joke pokemon, Delibird is now one of the best leads in FU, and best Spikes lead (fuck Dwebble people use it wrong). Fill the field with Spikes or Icy Wind the obvious switch. Then when you realize Delibird's job is done or you want to take an opp with you, just DB. After trying it, I'm surely going to use more, on more serious teams, especially on those who are wek to Sticky Web.

252 SpA Delibird Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gourgeist-Small: 146-174 (46.4 - 55.4%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery - beats the best spinblocker, who can't really do shit as Delibird fills the field with Spikes.

 

[Gary]

The OP is now updated with an accurate, much more appealing viability ranking thread that will be constatntly updated along with the piratepad. Here' what it looks like:

Viability Rankings

S Rank:Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the FU metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.

S rank

Electabuzz:

Fraxure

Gogoat

Machoke

A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the FU metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be compensated for when compared to their positive traits.

A+ Rank

Arbok

Gabite

Kingler

Krokorok

Murkrow

Rapidash

Sawsbuck

Seviper

Simipour

Zweilous

A Rank

Articuno

Heatmor

Leavanny

Metang

Raticate

Simisage

Simisear

Ursaring

A- Rank

Clefairy

Frogadier

Gourgeist-S

Ninjask

Quilladin

Prinplup

Swanna

Swoobat

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the FU metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential.

B+

Delibird

Fearow

Gigalith

Kriketune

Persian

Spritzee

Wartortle

Whiscash

B Rank

Dwebble

Grumpig

Hippopotas

Klang

Lairon

Lapras

Lumineon

Unfezant

Magcargo

Volbeat

Wormadam-Trash

B- Rank

Ariados

Emolga

Masquerain

Shedinja

Snover

Whirlipede

C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the FU metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon.

C Rank

Carvanha

Lampent

Slowpoke

D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the FU metagame, but are viable enough to justify their use on select teams. These Pokemon are either usable but have no real niche, or are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it.

D Rank

Marill

Monferno

Dont discuss the ranking thread here. All ranking discussion needs to be done in the piratepad.

 

[Yellow Cheese]

After a little use I think solrock fits somewthing like B+ or MABYE A- but Im not completly sure. It has proved pretty decent to me and has always been able to hold its weight in the team. Its also pretty amazing on Sun teams thanks to levitate and SR.