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ORAS FU Metagame Discussion (old)
- Thread starter Gary
- Start date
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Yeah Stoutland is the mon I'm most excited about, but I'm fairly certain it will be broken. It can OHKO everything on offense, outside of stuff like Metang and Lairon, which it 2HKOs with the appropriate coverage move. Not to mention all the things that wall it get handily beaten by Hippopotas outside of stuff like Gourgeist-S, which is admittedly very good on balance atm due to it being so fast and checking so many physical attackers.
Lumineon is actually really cool I think. Defog is obviously really nice for the tier, but Storm Drain is a godsend, and U-turn makes it not a complete momentum killer like Prinplup is, so Electabuzz and Gogoat can't just get a free switch every time it comes in. Countering Simipour outside of Sub NP GK sets is also really nice, and makes it a great partner to the aforementioned Hippo/Stoutland core.
Rapidash is a mon I have wanted in this tier ever since I unfortunately discovered it wasn't FU. That speed means it ties with electabuzz, and it's a physical attacker that doesn't get fucked by Gourgeist and Metang, which is always good in my opinion. Banded Flare Blitz hits so hard, letting it break through Spritzee. It even has a chance (although small) to 2HKO Hippo after SR! If you get the Burn, it's guaranteed, so Hippo definitely needs to watch out for that. Drill Run is great for breaking through Lairon and Gigalith, and Wild Charge means you aren't walled by Politoed and Lumineon.
Rampardos is hilarious. Banded, RP, SR, and my favorite set, Mixed, will absolutely destroy things. It breaks through all of Metang (although you get outsped, which SUCKS), Hippo, Spritzee, Quilladin, Gourgeist, and many others. Not to mention, if you hold an Expert Belt, it can fool people into thinking you're Band or Scarf (not the best set, but I might run it), and you can bop them the next turn with a coverage move.
So fucking excited for these drops. They are infinitely more fun than the ones we got last month. I'm also super happy that we got Sawsbuck back, Arbok is broken tho and I want it to go awy again ok ty :x
Lumineon is actually really cool I think. Defog is obviously really nice for the tier, but Storm Drain is a godsend, and U-turn makes it not a complete momentum killer like Prinplup is, so Electabuzz and Gogoat can't just get a free switch every time it comes in. Countering Simipour outside of Sub NP GK sets is also really nice, and makes it a great partner to the aforementioned Hippo/Stoutland core.
Rapidash is a mon I have wanted in this tier ever since I unfortunately discovered it wasn't FU. That speed means it ties with electabuzz, and it's a physical attacker that doesn't get fucked by Gourgeist and Metang, which is always good in my opinion. Banded Flare Blitz hits so hard, letting it break through Spritzee. It even has a chance (although small) to 2HKO Hippo after SR! If you get the Burn, it's guaranteed, so Hippo definitely needs to watch out for that. Drill Run is great for breaking through Lairon and Gigalith, and Wild Charge means you aren't walled by Politoed and Lumineon.
Rampardos is hilarious. Banded, RP, SR, and my favorite set, Mixed, will absolutely destroy things. It breaks through all of Metang (although you get outsped, which SUCKS), Hippo, Spritzee, Quilladin, Gourgeist, and many others. Not to mention, if you hold an Expert Belt, it can fool people into thinking you're Band or Scarf (not the best set, but I might run it), and you can bop them the next turn with a coverage move.
So fucking excited for these drops. They are infinitely more fun than the ones we got last month. I'm also super happy that we got Sawsbuck back, Arbok is broken tho and I want it to go awy again ok ty :x
Well... lemme see...
IMO there will be some discussion... cuz I truly think that some of those pokés will be receiving a lot of love... Sawsbuck and Arbok were already good, but the normal Types that dropped are the strongest things in this whole tier change. Ursaring can be pretty quick or just absurdly strong. Its Facade can clearly rip teams apart, and with SD help it can become pretty much GG against Stall, Stoutland is also pretty much strong, and also bulky and even Purugly can be a threat in a tier where Sticky web and defog are actually pretty common.
Rapidash will also receive some love, since it can be a pretty realiable answer to Sawsbuck, Gourgeist and Simis (it can deal with Simipour if it can manage to get in since: 252 Atk Life Orb Rapidash Wild Charge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Simipour: 309-367 (106.1 - 126.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO) and havin some nice coverage or utility moves like Drill Run, Hypnosis or even Morning Sun. Also Mightyena is going to be a nice tool, just cuz this tier was pretty needing a real Dark Type.
Sadly, I think the short end of the stick will be going to Drifblim and Relicanth... Relicanth isn't bad, but isn't strong enough if it uses a Scarf, it's really slow if it uses a band or a Life Orb, and sometimes a Rock Head-Head Smash can let you down with that accuracy, that miserable special defense and a not so hot defensive typing. finally Drifblim is just underwhelming in a lot of ways, the bulk isn't exactly stellar, and the mix of Power - Speed just reminds me of Glalie, which was not bad but was nothing to write home about. Also, Drifblim doesn't have Physical Ghost or Special Flying moves that can be really useful which again will spell doom to the balloon...
Cya Guys!
IMO there will be some discussion... cuz I truly think that some of those pokés will be receiving a lot of love... Sawsbuck and Arbok were already good, but the normal Types that dropped are the strongest things in this whole tier change. Ursaring can be pretty quick or just absurdly strong. Its Facade can clearly rip teams apart, and with SD help it can become pretty much GG against Stall, Stoutland is also pretty much strong, and also bulky and even Purugly can be a threat in a tier where Sticky web and defog are actually pretty common.
Rapidash will also receive some love, since it can be a pretty realiable answer to Sawsbuck, Gourgeist and Simis (it can deal with Simipour if it can manage to get in since: 252 Atk Life Orb Rapidash Wild Charge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Simipour: 309-367 (106.1 - 126.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO) and havin some nice coverage or utility moves like Drill Run, Hypnosis or even Morning Sun. Also Mightyena is going to be a nice tool, just cuz this tier was pretty needing a real Dark Type.
Sadly, I think the short end of the stick will be going to Drifblim and Relicanth... Relicanth isn't bad, but isn't strong enough if it uses a Scarf, it's really slow if it uses a band or a Life Orb, and sometimes a Rock Head-Head Smash can let you down with that accuracy, that miserable special defense and a not so hot defensive typing. finally Drifblim is just underwhelming in a lot of ways, the bulk isn't exactly stellar, and the mix of Power - Speed just reminds me of Glalie, which was not bad but was nothing to write home about. Also, Drifblim doesn't have Physical Ghost or Special Flying moves that can be really useful which again will spell doom to the balloon...
Cya Guys!
Okay so we've tested a few of the drops so far and overall I'm very impressed with all of them.
Stoutland is broken, straight up. I'm probably not going to let this thing last much longer in metagame, even if it's only been around for a little bit. All of the Rock and Steel-types that normally counter Normal spam such as Gigalith, Metang, and Lairon are all 2HKOed by a proper coverage move. CB is powerful, but I'm not a huge fan of it simply because if the opponent has something that can switch into Return, it forces a bunch of 50/50s. Life Orb is its best set IMO, because it can switch up moves while still retaining a lot of power. Add to the fact that there are like 2 viable Fighting-types in tier, one of them being weak to Superpower, AND that Hippopotas is actually a really good defensive Pokemon in this tier, it makes it that much easier to just slap Hippo onto a team with Stoutland and turn Stoutland from a middle tier threat to one of the best offensive Pokemon in the metagame. I'll discuss more with my council, but I doubt they'd disagree.
Another Pokemon that I said would probably be broken, Ursaring, has actually turned out to be nothing more than a A rank threat. Quick Feet makes it as fast as Electabuzz, but what really sucks about it is that that first initial turn it's going to be extremely slow, which forces you to run Protect in order to make a bigger impact on offensive teams. If you run Protect, then you have a choice between either running SD two attacks or 3 attacks. Although Facade is a great move to clean with, against balance and bulky offensive teams without SD it can't OHKO a lot of things, nor does it have the ability to break through certain things such as Metang or Gigalith if it chooses to only run Facade + Coverage move. In all honesty, I'd say Raticate is the better option on most offensive teams, because not only does it have a MUCH better speed tier right off the bat, but it can also abuse Guts AND SD without having to give up one or the other. It also has priority in the form of Sucker Punch, as well as U-turn to pivot out of things. However, Ursaring's Guts set is fantastic on Sticky Web though, and it completely rapes offense as long you keep webs up. Purugly is obviously a huge thorn in its side though, as a +2 Fake Out is an easy 2HKO on it, especially with the extra residual damage racking up. All in all, solid Pokemon, but I don't see it being broken any time soon.
Rampardos is another Pokemon I'm definitely keeping an eye on. Although everyone seems to be focusing on the Choiced sets, what you really have to watch out for are the mixed Rock Polish sets. Its Sheer Force ability practically gives it ~95 base SpA, which allows it to abuse its VERY plentiful special movepool to full effect. Fire Blast allows it to 2HKO Metang, while Ice Beam can OHKO Gourgeist and deal heavy damage to Quilladen and Hippo. Rock Slide is also more powerful than Stone Edge factoring in Sheer Force, and it's MUCH more accurate. I also see an offensive Stealth Rock set being very threatening, especially on Sticky Web teams. Scarf sets are still pretty slow, but it gives it that extra speed to abuse its powerful STAB Head Smash as well as its wide variety of coverage moves. Overall, Rampardos seems like it will be one of the most terrifying sweepers in the tier, but it seems a lot more manageable than Stoutland.
Purugly is probably one of my favorite drops personally, other than Arbok coming back. I was a very avid user of Persian, and Purugly is basically an upgraded version of it. We finally have a fast and decently strong Defiant user that can heavily pressure Sticky Web teams as well as punish Defoggers. A +2 Fake Out is extremely threatening, especially against offense, while not much even on balance will be switching into a Return comfortably. Taunt gives it nice utility against defense as well, which makes it useful against nearly all team archetypes.
Stoutland is broken, straight up. I'm probably not going to let this thing last much longer in metagame, even if it's only been around for a little bit. All of the Rock and Steel-types that normally counter Normal spam such as Gigalith, Metang, and Lairon are all 2HKOed by a proper coverage move. CB is powerful, but I'm not a huge fan of it simply because if the opponent has something that can switch into Return, it forces a bunch of 50/50s. Life Orb is its best set IMO, because it can switch up moves while still retaining a lot of power. Add to the fact that there are like 2 viable Fighting-types in tier, one of them being weak to Superpower, AND that Hippopotas is actually a really good defensive Pokemon in this tier, it makes it that much easier to just slap Hippo onto a team with Stoutland and turn Stoutland from a middle tier threat to one of the best offensive Pokemon in the metagame. I'll discuss more with my council, but I doubt they'd disagree.
Another Pokemon that I said would probably be broken, Ursaring, has actually turned out to be nothing more than a A rank threat. Quick Feet makes it as fast as Electabuzz, but what really sucks about it is that that first initial turn it's going to be extremely slow, which forces you to run Protect in order to make a bigger impact on offensive teams. If you run Protect, then you have a choice between either running SD two attacks or 3 attacks. Although Facade is a great move to clean with, against balance and bulky offensive teams without SD it can't OHKO a lot of things, nor does it have the ability to break through certain things such as Metang or Gigalith if it chooses to only run Facade + Coverage move. In all honesty, I'd say Raticate is the better option on most offensive teams, because not only does it have a MUCH better speed tier right off the bat, but it can also abuse Guts AND SD without having to give up one or the other. It also has priority in the form of Sucker Punch, as well as U-turn to pivot out of things. However, Ursaring's Guts set is fantastic on Sticky Web though, and it completely rapes offense as long you keep webs up. Purugly is obviously a huge thorn in its side though, as a +2 Fake Out is an easy 2HKO on it, especially with the extra residual damage racking up. All in all, solid Pokemon, but I don't see it being broken any time soon.
Rampardos is another Pokemon I'm definitely keeping an eye on. Although everyone seems to be focusing on the Choiced sets, what you really have to watch out for are the mixed Rock Polish sets. Its Sheer Force ability practically gives it ~95 base SpA, which allows it to abuse its VERY plentiful special movepool to full effect. Fire Blast allows it to 2HKO Metang, while Ice Beam can OHKO Gourgeist and deal heavy damage to Quilladen and Hippo. Rock Slide is also more powerful than Stone Edge factoring in Sheer Force, and it's MUCH more accurate. I also see an offensive Stealth Rock set being very threatening, especially on Sticky Web teams. Scarf sets are still pretty slow, but it gives it that extra speed to abuse its powerful STAB Head Smash as well as its wide variety of coverage moves. Overall, Rampardos seems like it will be one of the most terrifying sweepers in the tier, but it seems a lot more manageable than Stoutland.
Purugly is probably one of my favorite drops personally, other than Arbok coming back. I was a very avid user of Persian, and Purugly is basically an upgraded version of it. We finally have a fast and decently strong Defiant user that can heavily pressure Sticky Web teams as well as punish Defoggers. A +2 Fake Out is extremely threatening, especially against offense, while not much even on balance will be switching into a Return comfortably. Taunt gives it nice utility against defense as well, which makes it useful against nearly all team archetypes.
Stoutland learns Play Rough lol
Anyway, I'll be a bit controversial and say that Stoutland is not broken at all. It's very bulky for FU standards, has a very good offensive and support movepool and can run a cool set with Intimidate and Thunder Wave, making it a nice pivot. Defensive Stoutland, given his bulk and Intimidate, can be used to check some dangerous physical attackers such as Rapidash, Arbok, Sawsbuck, Murkrow, Krokorok and more, with only lack of recovery holding it back. And I really want to use this set to see if my theorymon is as viable as I think but the gay (not that there's anything wrong with that) Sand Rush set won't allow me to do it. CB/Silk Scarf Stoutland in sand is ridiculous. Unless you have Quilladin and pysically defensive Wormadam-S, you're toast. Hell, I was using Cloud Nine Golduck to deal with that as a check. CLOUD NINE GOLDUCK, the kind of thing you only use when desperate. Not to mention you can pair Stoutland with a WishPasser like Spritzee to keep it alive. It's so fast in Sandstorm that it even outspeeds freaking CB Ninjask, and it only needs 168 Spe to outspeed Scarf Bambi, letting its remaining EVs to be placed in HP to make it even bulkier. If Stoutland was still with only 80 base Speed, it's be much more manageable, kind of a faster but less powerful Zweilous/Rampardos. That's why instead of banning him, I'd much rather ban Sand Rush. Both Sandshrew and Drillbur are crap with(out) Sand Rush, and Sand Stream Hippopotas is cool to counter eventual Sun/Rain/the underrated asf Hail, and also serves as a pseudo-Light Screen for any Rock-type sweeper like Rampardos, Relicanth or Sand Force Autotomize Gigalith (it's fun cause 252+ Atk Life Orb Sand Force Gigalith Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Quilladin in Sand: 156-185 (47.8 - 56.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage). tl;dr Stoutland is not Gogoat-like broken, only Sand Rush makes it unhealthy for metagame, so banning Sand Rush is the fairest solution.
Minor edit but hail the non-broken lord of FU:
Hippopotas/Stoutland gonna tear it up.
But my blaziken wasn't broken with blaze we should just ban speed boost.
If stoutland's best sets are broken then ban stoutland, don't ban abilities unless they're broken on every pokemon that uses them this is like the most basic smogon tiering philosophy.
This. We're not banning Sand Rush just to keep Stoutland around. If we did that, then we'd be opening up a giant can of rotten worms where we might start banning broken aspects of a Pokemon such as abilities or moves before banning the Pokemon itself. If Sand Rush were broken on multiple Pokemon and was deemed a huge problem for the tier, then banning Sand Rush would be fine. However when Sand Rush is shared by shitty Pokemon such as Sandshrew and Drilburr which aren't even viable with Sand Rush, it just goes to show that Stoutland is the problem, not Sand Rush. Despite the fact of how cool of a Pokemon Stoutland would be minus Sand Rush, I refuse to ban an ability just to keep something around, as that goes against major ban philosophies that I don't want to mess with.
Also here's the new viability ranking thread btw, not everything is ranked though and it's stilll subject to change because of the meta shift.
http://piratepad.net/6CRSpQzHdS
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Stoutland is now banned.
This should come of no surprise to any of you if you've been playing FU recently and were smart enough to abuse it or unfortunate enough to run into it. With its Speed doubling in Sand, there's absolutely nothing in this metagame that can outspeed it, not even Jolly Ninjask or Scarf Rapidash. This left it with zero reliable checks. It also has amazing coverage, with access to move such as Superpower to hit Rock-types, Crunch to hit Metang and Gourgeist-S, and Play Rough to OHKO Scraggy or to deal very heavy damage to Machoke. Its Attack stat is also high for FU standards, as 110 is nothing to scoff at and rivals that of powerhouses such as Rapidash, Sawsbuck, and Machoke. Priority is also an inneficiant way of dealing with it, because its solid 85/90/90 bulk allowed it to avoid the 2HKO from stuff like Guts Raticate's Quick Attack or the OHKO from a +2 Sucker Punch after rocks. A CB Return 2HKOed pretty much every physical wall that wasn't a Steel-type, such as Quilladen, Spritzee, and Hippopotas, while the former Pokemon are dealt with by Superpower. The only support Stoutland needs to succeed is being paired with Hippo, which on its own is a great Pokemon and is hardly ever a liability in most matches because of its high bulk, access to Stealth Rock, and reliable recovery. As you can see by the replay posted below, Halcyon doesn't even use Smooth Rock on it to maximize Sand turns. Stoutland by itself is already a good Pokemon, so Sand Rush is only a perk that lets it clean up late game, while even without Sand Rush it can wallbreak early game. This allows you to safely run Eviolite on Hippo, keeping it from ever being a liability.
The only reliable way I ever found in dealing with Stoutland was to paralyze it with priority Thunder Wave with Murkrow, but it's so obvious, and the opponent can just switch to something like Electabuzz or Hippo predicting that, losing you a shit ton of momentum and accomplishing nothing. Stoutland just runs through offensive teams with such ease that every time you see it in the team preview, you might as well just forfeit. Balance and bulky offense aren't safe from Stoutland either, because like I said there's basically nothing in this tier that can avoid the 2HKO from one of its moves, and those that can most likely lack recovery or fail to do anything significant back.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pu-190836717
I'm using a standard offensive team while Halcyon is using Stoutland gayness. The amount of pressure it puts on me the whole game is absoutely insane, and it barely even comes in; once to punch a hole, and again to clean up. Half the time I was forced to make riskier plays than I should have in order to try and grab myself some momentum, but as long as he played it safe it was too easy. It doesn't even need to come in to be good, which right there shows you how pressuring and stupid it is.
tl;dr Stoutland is broken because of the insane amount of pressure it puts on every team archetype while nearly making offense a liability, and the combination of its already stellar attributes combined with Sand Rush makes it incredibly broken and unhealthy in the meta.
This should come of no surprise to any of you if you've been playing FU recently and were smart enough to abuse it or unfortunate enough to run into it. With its Speed doubling in Sand, there's absolutely nothing in this metagame that can outspeed it, not even Jolly Ninjask or Scarf Rapidash. This left it with zero reliable checks. It also has amazing coverage, with access to move such as Superpower to hit Rock-types, Crunch to hit Metang and Gourgeist-S, and Play Rough to OHKO Scraggy or to deal very heavy damage to Machoke. Its Attack stat is also high for FU standards, as 110 is nothing to scoff at and rivals that of powerhouses such as Rapidash, Sawsbuck, and Machoke. Priority is also an inneficiant way of dealing with it, because its solid 85/90/90 bulk allowed it to avoid the 2HKO from stuff like Guts Raticate's Quick Attack or the OHKO from a +2 Sucker Punch after rocks. A CB Return 2HKOed pretty much every physical wall that wasn't a Steel-type, such as Quilladen, Spritzee, and Hippopotas, while the former Pokemon are dealt with by Superpower. The only support Stoutland needs to succeed is being paired with Hippo, which on its own is a great Pokemon and is hardly ever a liability in most matches because of its high bulk, access to Stealth Rock, and reliable recovery. As you can see by the replay posted below, Halcyon doesn't even use Smooth Rock on it to maximize Sand turns. Stoutland by itself is already a good Pokemon, so Sand Rush is only a perk that lets it clean up late game, while even without Sand Rush it can wallbreak early game. This allows you to safely run Eviolite on Hippo, keeping it from ever being a liability.
The only reliable way I ever found in dealing with Stoutland was to paralyze it with priority Thunder Wave with Murkrow, but it's so obvious, and the opponent can just switch to something like Electabuzz or Hippo predicting that, losing you a shit ton of momentum and accomplishing nothing. Stoutland just runs through offensive teams with such ease that every time you see it in the team preview, you might as well just forfeit. Balance and bulky offense aren't safe from Stoutland either, because like I said there's basically nothing in this tier that can avoid the 2HKO from one of its moves, and those that can most likely lack recovery or fail to do anything significant back.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pu-190836717
I'm using a standard offensive team while Halcyon is using Stoutland gayness. The amount of pressure it puts on me the whole game is absoutely insane, and it barely even comes in; once to punch a hole, and again to clean up. Half the time I was forced to make riskier plays than I should have in order to try and grab myself some momentum, but as long as he played it safe it was too easy. It doesn't even need to come in to be good, which right there shows you how pressuring and stupid it is.
tl;dr Stoutland is broken because of the insane amount of pressure it puts on every team archetype while nearly making offense a liability, and the combination of its already stellar attributes combined with Sand Rush makes it incredibly broken and unhealthy in the meta.
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We're looking at possibly having some kind of vote within the council on Gogoat and Kingler. Personally I seem to be the only one that thinks the former is very manageable and isn't nearly as restrictive as other Pokemon in the tier such as Buzz, Machoke, and Fraxure, but it's pretty versatile and its defensive sets can live pretty much anything so I can see where they are coming from. Kingler is definitely something we're looking at. Its high physical defense lets it set up on a lot of shit, even LO Rapidash's Wild Charge and some variants of Gogoat. Its Agility sets clean up VERY easily and a Life Orb Crabhammer can still OHKO Eviolite Buzz even with a Jolly nature after rocks. All of the Grass-types in the tier are weak to either X-Scissor or Knock Off, and when carrying a Lum Berry it can set up on Gourgeist which is pretty dumb. Don came up with a Sub Salac SD set that also tears apart offense with little effort. It just seems like a bit too much for the meta, which is why we're thinking of potentially testing it somehow.
This thread is a week without any post, and yet some people were making very good teams :L I'll share some sets I've been using to revive this thread and hopefully spark some interest on newcomers / bored people who want to try a funny metagame where almost everything is useful and versatile.
Arbok @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Coil
- Gunk Shot
- Ice Fang
- Earthquake / Sucker Punch
The monster only known as Arbok returned this month from PU to ravage the tier once more with its threatenning Coil. Although people use two variants (with one of those - SubCoil - only I use), I made this set as a lure for its two most proeminent checks: Krokorok and Gabite. Simply put, bring Arbok in somethng it forces out (Machoke, Clefairy, Gogoat, etc) and set up as they switch into their Ground reptilians. When they come into Arbok expecting to kill it with EQ, they instead get killed instead by Ice Fang. Ice Fang also helps against the rare but still worrisome Drifblim. Shuca's other merits are not be killed by physical scarf Seviper with EQ. This set is more of a lure, so pair it with something that enjoys Krok/Gabite being away such as Rapidash, Fraxure and Swoobat.
Bellossom @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 48 HP / 252 SpA / 208 Spe
Modest Nature
- Sunny Day
- Solar Beam / Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Moonblast
After Sawsbuck came back to the tier, Sun seems very good again (even though it always was). However, Sun was still good with one standalone Sun abuser: The forgotten Bellossom. Although it may not appear, Bellossom has very good stats for FU, with a solid 90 base Special Attack and 75/95/100 bulk. Its speed is mediocre at 50 though, and this set helps with this problem. I forgot right now what those EVs outrun but IIRC Adamant Ninjask was the basis. Solar Beam is very powerful, but Giga Drain is also nice to refill health and if in any case Sun is not up. Hidden Power Fire gets "STAB" on Sunny weather etting Bellossom pass through Steel- and Grass-types such as Metang and Quilladinn, and Moonblast is a neat gift ORAS gave to Bellossom, allowing it to smack the Dragons that used to counter Sun teams and Murkrow. A perfect partner for this set is Drill Run Rapidash due its abiility to check opposite Fire-type Pokemon. Bellossom, can on return, beat Water-types that threaten Rarity and also set up Sun to make Rapidash's Fire STAB even more powerful.
Jumpluff @ nothing
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sleep Powder
- Acrobatics
- Bullet Seed / Seed Bomb
Jumpluff is an interesting Pokemon. Although it's frail and not THAT powerful with 55 Attack, its saving grace lies in its fantastic 110 Speed, with only a very few non-scarfed Pokemon being able to outspeed. Swords Dance is necessary, as is its two STABs, Acrobatics and Bullet Seed/Seed Bomb. Sleep Powder is preferred to cripple a Pokemon right away, but Encore can also be used if wanting to set up on a non-Speed booster sweeper. Tagging Gary2346 as he also used this Jumpluff and can attest it's quite good.
Kingler @ Salac Berry
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Crabhammer
- Flail
Kingler is damn scary, and this set is pretty much gg if your opponent has no Frillish/Gourgeist/Quilladin (although +2 252+ Atk Kingler Flail (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Quilladin: 238-280 (73 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock) or priority. All you need to use this set is set up a sub, SD, then either kill whatever is slower with Crabhammer or set up. If the opponent is faster and you know it'll attack, just set up Substitute to try to activate Salac Berry AND power up Flail to potentially 200 BP, then destroy everything your opponent has. This set works extremely well with the Jumpluff set above, with the latter acting as a mid-game cleaner and Kingler just picks the leftovers. Mixed Murkrow is also a good partner due to its ability to deal with the three main Pokemon that beat this specific Kingler ser. Gary2346 and others think Kingler is broken, but I don't see it being really THAT broken at least now, not on Gogoat and Rampardos' level, and I think Kingler has much more surprises to give to the metagame (Mixed with Ice Beam is also so damn cool).
Machoke @ Eviolite
Ability: Guts
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Low Kick / Low Sweep / Good luck finding another reliable STAB that doesn't fuck your defenses / miss / isn't piss weak
- Knock Off
Machoke doesn't need any foreword nor introduction. Probably the best not broken (unles your're called Halcyon. cause for him it's broken) Pokemon in the tier alongside Kingler, Dash and Buzz. Being a Fighting-type in FU is a blessing, and together with his divine ability(ies) and bulk, Machoke is a very powerful and terrifying creature. RestTalk is the only way of recovery because no Drain Punch for some reason, and it works fairly nice with Guts, allowing Machoke to boost its already high Attack, while also turning Machoke into a handy status absorber. Low Kick is chosen as its STAB since it's the best "reliable" Fighting-type move it has. Low Sweep can be used too for the speed drop, but it's very weak. Knock Off provides the best coverage, and handicaps Pokemon that heavily rely on items. Again, sorry for forgetting about the spread, it outsped something I can't remember now.
Arbok @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Coil
- Gunk Shot
- Ice Fang
- Earthquake / Sucker Punch
The monster only known as Arbok returned this month from PU to ravage the tier once more with its threatenning Coil. Although people use two variants (with one of those - SubCoil - only I use), I made this set as a lure for its two most proeminent checks: Krokorok and Gabite. Simply put, bring Arbok in somethng it forces out (Machoke, Clefairy, Gogoat, etc) and set up as they switch into their Ground reptilians. When they come into Arbok expecting to kill it with EQ, they instead get killed instead by Ice Fang. Ice Fang also helps against the rare but still worrisome Drifblim. Shuca's other merits are not be killed by physical scarf Seviper with EQ. This set is more of a lure, so pair it with something that enjoys Krok/Gabite being away such as Rapidash, Fraxure and Swoobat.
Bellossom @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 48 HP / 252 SpA / 208 Spe
Modest Nature
- Sunny Day
- Solar Beam / Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Moonblast
After Sawsbuck came back to the tier, Sun seems very good again (even though it always was). However, Sun was still good with one standalone Sun abuser: The forgotten Bellossom. Although it may not appear, Bellossom has very good stats for FU, with a solid 90 base Special Attack and 75/95/100 bulk. Its speed is mediocre at 50 though, and this set helps with this problem. I forgot right now what those EVs outrun but IIRC Adamant Ninjask was the basis. Solar Beam is very powerful, but Giga Drain is also nice to refill health and if in any case Sun is not up. Hidden Power Fire gets "STAB" on Sunny weather etting Bellossom pass through Steel- and Grass-types such as Metang and Quilladinn, and Moonblast is a neat gift ORAS gave to Bellossom, allowing it to smack the Dragons that used to counter Sun teams and Murkrow. A perfect partner for this set is Drill Run Rapidash due its abiility to check opposite Fire-type Pokemon. Bellossom, can on return, beat Water-types that threaten Rarity and also set up Sun to make Rapidash's Fire STAB even more powerful.
Jumpluff @ nothing
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sleep Powder
- Acrobatics
- Bullet Seed / Seed Bomb
Jumpluff is an interesting Pokemon. Although it's frail and not THAT powerful with 55 Attack, its saving grace lies in its fantastic 110 Speed, with only a very few non-scarfed Pokemon being able to outspeed. Swords Dance is necessary, as is its two STABs, Acrobatics and Bullet Seed/Seed Bomb. Sleep Powder is preferred to cripple a Pokemon right away, but Encore can also be used if wanting to set up on a non-Speed booster sweeper. Tagging Gary2346 as he also used this Jumpluff and can attest it's quite good.
Kingler @ Salac Berry
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Crabhammer
- Flail
Kingler is damn scary, and this set is pretty much gg if your opponent has no Frillish/Gourgeist/Quilladin (although +2 252+ Atk Kingler Flail (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Quilladin: 238-280 (73 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock) or priority. All you need to use this set is set up a sub, SD, then either kill whatever is slower with Crabhammer or set up. If the opponent is faster and you know it'll attack, just set up Substitute to try to activate Salac Berry AND power up Flail to potentially 200 BP, then destroy everything your opponent has. This set works extremely well with the Jumpluff set above, with the latter acting as a mid-game cleaner and Kingler just picks the leftovers. Mixed Murkrow is also a good partner due to its ability to deal with the three main Pokemon that beat this specific Kingler ser. Gary2346 and others think Kingler is broken, but I don't see it being really THAT broken at least now, not on Gogoat and Rampardos' level, and I think Kingler has much more surprises to give to the metagame (Mixed with Ice Beam is also so damn cool).
Machoke @ Eviolite
Ability: Guts
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Low Kick / Low Sweep / Good luck finding another reliable STAB that doesn't fuck your defenses / miss / isn't piss weak
- Knock Off
Machoke doesn't need any foreword nor introduction. Probably the best not broken (unles your're called Halcyon. cause for him it's broken) Pokemon in the tier alongside Kingler, Dash and Buzz. Being a Fighting-type in FU is a blessing, and together with his divine ability(ies) and bulk, Machoke is a very powerful and terrifying creature. RestTalk is the only way of recovery because no Drain Punch for some reason, and it works fairly nice with Guts, allowing Machoke to boost its already high Attack, while also turning Machoke into a handy status absorber. Low Kick is chosen as its STAB since it's the best "reliable" Fighting-type move it has. Low Sweep can be used too for the speed drop, but it's very weak. Knock Off provides the best coverage, and handicaps Pokemon that heavily rely on items. Again, sorry for forgetting about the spread, it outsped something I can't remember now.
I would complete your team using Metang! It can help you to deal with psychic types that can threaten Árbok and Machoke and is also a nice Ice resistor (since Kingler isn't going to resist a lot of ice beams) and it can setup rocks for your team! What do you think?
Oh it's not his team lol he's just showing off good Pokemon.
So FU just won OM of the Month (yay!) and Im hoping that the added exposure will help the metagame develope more to the point where we can actually make real tiering decisions. In that same vein, I personally have been frustrated by the inability of the council to really determine if there is anything broken in the tier outside of the completely obvious stuff like Vigoroth and Stoutland. There just isn't a big enough player base for us to accurately decide what is too good for the tier and what is simply a threat our own teams were unprepared for. However, now that there will (hopefully) be a lot more activity in this tier and this thread, I have to ask: is there anything you, the players, find to be overpowered in FU? I hope you'll take this month to take a look at all your games and determine for yourselves what pokemon, strategies, moves, etc. are too strong for the tier. I personally would like opinions on stuff like Chlorophyll/Swift Swim, Sticky Web, Kingler, Gogoat, Arbok, Rapidash, and Fraxure, which are all things I think are potentially broken. Post here if you have played the tier extensively and have an opinion on what you think is or isn't broken in the tier.
With that said, thank you for making this the OMotM and welcome to FU! n_n
With that said, thank you for making this the OMotM and welcome to FU! n_n
Yeah as Halcyon said thanks so much for making this OM of the month, and I'm astounded by the sheer amount of support we got! Anyways, once the ladder goes up, hopefully this thread will be a lot more active with discussion and what not, and maybe in the near future we can potentially get a suspect test going for some controversial Pokemon or even moves, such as Gogoat, Machoke, Sticky Web, and Kingler.
Remember that there is a link to a piratepad where you can see the editable viability ranking thread which is constantly changing, but there's also a text version in the OP as well which I'll make sure to update more frequently. Hopefully soon we may be able to make an entire thread dedicated to ranking FU Pokemon, but for now do it within the piratepad. Feel free to contribute to it, but please ask around first and don't just start adding and removing shit without asking. If you have any questions feel free to contact either me or one of the council members.
Ranking thread: http://piratepad.net/6CRSpQzHdS
Remember that there is a link to a piratepad where you can see the editable viability ranking thread which is constantly changing, but there's also a text version in the OP as well which I'll make sure to update more frequently. Hopefully soon we may be able to make an entire thread dedicated to ranking FU Pokemon, but for now do it within the piratepad. Feel free to contribute to it, but please ask around first and don't just start adding and removing shit without asking. If you have any questions feel free to contact either me or one of the council members.
Ranking thread: http://piratepad.net/6CRSpQzHdS
Definitely excited for the ladder, and I've been using a bulky-ish Lumineon, which does miracles:
Lumineon Leftovers
Bold/Impish/Calm
Ability: Storm Drain
252 HP/80 Def/8 SpA/168 SpD
Moves:
-Scald
-Defog
-U-turn
-Toxic/Protect/Substitute
Scald: STAB + nifty 30% chance to burn
Defog: gets all the crap off the field
U-turn: Builds momentum for your next Pokemon, great for when you need to GTFO
Toxic: For anything that can't be burned or for bulky stuff like Spritzee,
This works pretty good for me, Scald > toxic when you need to get rid of machoke
Lumineon Leftovers
Bold/Impish/Calm
Ability: Storm Drain
252 HP/80 Def/8 SpA/168 SpD
Moves:
-Scald
-Defog
-U-turn
-Toxic/Protect/Substitute
Scald: STAB + nifty 30% chance to burn
Defog: gets all the crap off the field
U-turn: Builds momentum for your next Pokemon, great for when you need to GTFO
Toxic: For anything that can't be burned or for bulky stuff like Spritzee,
This works pretty good for me, Scald > toxic when you need to get rid of machoke
Looking at spinners again, I'm thinking that Staryu and Phanpy may be the only decent ones. Staryu is the only FU spinner with recovery other than Bergmite (SR weak w/ poor defensive typing and lowish firepower) and can basically act as a generic bulky Water with Scald + Toxic + Recover + Rapid Spin. Its bulk with Eviolite is actually decent, but a Knock Off renders it somewhat frail. Still one of the better spinner choices in FU.
Staryu @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic
Phanpy has the best bulk of the FU spinners thanks to its high HP stat and its Ground typing gives it a Stealth Rock resistance and good synergy with Toxic since EQ hits non-Flying and levitating Poison and Steel types. Toxic + Knock Off help deal with spinblockers, though Gourgeist-Small and Large don't take too much from Knock Off because of their high Defense (Toxic and the lack of Leftovers after Knock Off certain help to wear them down, however). It's not too strong thanks to its 60 base Attack, but Earthquake at least has high BP and Toxic helps to wear opposing Pokemon down throughout the match.
Phanpy @ Eviolite
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Knock Off
Defoggers definitely outclass the poor selection of spinners on teams that aren't hazard reliant, but I still look forward to testing the above when the ladder goes up next month/year.
EDIT: Wow, too stupid to see that Rapid Spin was illegal in the teambuilder for Phanpy. -_- Oh well.
Staryu @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic
Phanpy has the best bulk of the FU spinners thanks to its high HP stat and its Ground typing gives it a Stealth Rock resistance and good synergy with Toxic since EQ hits non-Flying and levitating Poison and Steel types. Toxic + Knock Off help deal with spinblockers, though Gourgeist-Small and Large don't take too much from Knock Off because of their high Defense (Toxic and the lack of Leftovers after Knock Off certain help to wear them down, however). It's not too strong thanks to its 60 base Attack, but Earthquake at least has high BP and Toxic helps to wear opposing Pokemon down throughout the match.
Phanpy @ Eviolite
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Knock Off
Defoggers definitely outclass the poor selection of spinners on teams that aren't hazard reliant, but I still look forward to testing the above when the ladder goes up next month/year.
EDIT: Wow, too stupid to see that Rapid Spin was illegal in the teambuilder for Phanpy. -_- Oh well.
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Yeah spinning is not the way to go when trying to remove hazards in FU. We may not have much, but Swanna is a pretty good defogger that actually has an offensive presence (fuck what you say Don) and can fit pretty well on offense. Prinplup is arguably the most reliable defogger in the tier, as it is able to tank hits very well from shit like Rapidash and Gabite then proceed to set up or remove rocks. Lumineon is pretty garbage, but it's still better than Staryu and Drilburr, and with access to U-turn it at least gains much needed momentum as well as checking certain Water-types reasonably well. Here's the only spinner I would ever use in FU:
Wartortle @ Eviolite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic
- Haze / Foresight / other fillers
Wartortle is slightly bulkier than Prinplup on both sides which is pretty cool, and it doesn't have to worry about giving Purugly a free +2 or being prevented from spinning by Taunt. There's only one good Ghost-type in the tier at the moment which is Gourgeist-S, so Foresight isn't really a requirement at the moment, but still nice to have. Haze is also really cool because it isn't complete set up fodder like Prinplup is. It also learns other cool moves such as Seismic Toss, Counter, Mirror Coat, etc, so it's slightly less predictable too. I'd still use Prinplup most of the time just because its ability to remove hazards AND set up rocks is extremely beneficial for a lot of teams, but with Purugly being such a dangerous threat these days and Taunt being a pretty common move, Wartortle is a very solid option on some teams.
Wartortle @ Eviolite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic
- Haze / Foresight / other fillers
Wartortle is slightly bulkier than Prinplup on both sides which is pretty cool, and it doesn't have to worry about giving Purugly a free +2 or being prevented from spinning by Taunt. There's only one good Ghost-type in the tier at the moment which is Gourgeist-S, so Foresight isn't really a requirement at the moment, but still nice to have. Haze is also really cool because it isn't complete set up fodder like Prinplup is. It also learns other cool moves such as Seismic Toss, Counter, Mirror Coat, etc, so it's slightly less predictable too. I'd still use Prinplup most of the time just because its ability to remove hazards AND set up rocks is extremely beneficial for a lot of teams, but with Purugly being such a dangerous threat these days and Taunt being a pretty common move, Wartortle is a very solid option on some teams.
First of all
Second, for FU hazard control options we have nothing really spectacular really. Every defogger except Prinplup is shit and every spinnr is subpar, fitting only on specific kinds of teams. I'll post a bit which I used and were not THAT bad, but hazard control in FU is really REALLY hard. I'll post more detailed tomorrow because New Year and I'm tired, but this is what I used so far:
Anorith @ Eviolite
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Blast / X-Scissor
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock / Swords Dance / X-Scissor
Tentacool @ Eviolite
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def or SpD / 8 SpD or Def
Bold or Calm Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Rest / Toxic Spikes / Acid Spray / Knock Off
- Rest / Toxic Spikes / Acid Spray / Knock Off
Wartortle @ Eviolite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Haze
- Foresight / Scald
- Seismic Toss / Scald
Interested to test: Baltoy; Kabuto; Pineco. They probably suck though, like Sandshrew and Drillbur. Delibird is a lead.
Prinplup @ Eviolite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Defog
- Scald
- Toxic / Ice Beam
- Stealth Rock
Vibrava @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- U-turn
- Bulldoze / Earthquake
Vullaby @ Eviolite
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Foul Play
- Whirlwind / Knock Off
Noctowl @ Leftovers
Ability: Insomnia / Tinted Lens
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- Air Slash / Night Shade
- Toxic / Reflect
Interested in: Drifblim (?)
Also there are Swanna and Lumineon but I'd rather run no control than those. Things like Articuno ( Halcyon. used it) and Dustox also get it
Second, for FU hazard control options we have nothing really spectacular really. Every defogger except Prinplup is shit and every spinnr is subpar, fitting only on specific kinds of teams. I'll post a bit which I used and were not THAT bad, but hazard control in FU is really REALLY hard. I'll post more detailed tomorrow because New Year and I'm tired, but this is what I used so far:
Anorith @ Eviolite
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Blast / X-Scissor
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock / Swords Dance / X-Scissor
Tentacool @ Eviolite
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def or SpD / 8 SpD or Def
Bold or Calm Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Rest / Toxic Spikes / Acid Spray / Knock Off
- Rest / Toxic Spikes / Acid Spray / Knock Off
Wartortle @ Eviolite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Haze
- Foresight / Scald
- Seismic Toss / Scald
Interested to test: Baltoy; Kabuto; Pineco. They probably suck though, like Sandshrew and Drillbur. Delibird is a lead.
Prinplup @ Eviolite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Defog
- Scald
- Toxic / Ice Beam
- Stealth Rock
Vibrava @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- U-turn
- Bulldoze / Earthquake
Vullaby @ Eviolite
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Foul Play
- Whirlwind / Knock Off
Noctowl @ Leftovers
Ability: Insomnia / Tinted Lens
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- Air Slash / Night Shade
- Toxic / Reflect
Interested in: Drifblim (?)
Also there are Swanna and Lumineon but I'd rather run no control than those. Things like Articuno ( Halcyon. used it) and Dustox also get it
nice +1 252+ Atk Machoke Dynamic Punch vs. 252 HP / 252 + Def Eviolite Bronzor: 118-141 (37.1 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO, this is if you dont count reflect, i hope bronzor get more used in this new OM
>hear about PU coming out
>"Yes! My bro Dunsparce can finally tear some shit up!"
>it's garb still
>hear about FU
M-Maybe this time he'll have a chance to shine? His ParaFlinch skills are p-pretty useful, right?
>"Yes! My bro Dunsparce can finally tear some shit up!"
>it's garb still
>hear about FU
M-Maybe this time he'll have a chance to shine? His ParaFlinch skills are p-pretty useful, right?
- Status