ORAS FU Metagame Discussion (old)

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Not really sad that Arbok is gone (again). Almost every team was weak to this fucker because it's strong enough to break fat shit while more offensively orientated teams, the more common ones, had practically no safe switchins and don't exactly appreciate a +1 Sucker Punch either. Pretty much the same story for Simipour, I'm glad they're finally getting the recognition they deserve. Stunfisk looks amazing, can't wait to try it out. Rampardos looks okay but because of its multiple weaknesses it can't do much against offense unless you use Choice Scarf which is still slow. Meowstic is really annoying but nothing special.

It's pretty interesting that the Pokemon which left are all wallbreakers, which probably is related to fatter teams gaining popularity in PU lately. I suppose more bulky builds might be worth a try in FU as well with them gone, as long as Rampardos doesn't become too common.

Also more people should join #FU imo. :]
 
Yeah, kind of glad arbok is gone, it was surprisingly hard to check both offensively and defensively, with decent attack and high BP to break defensive mons and just enough bulk with a good typing to stomach a hit or two from offense.

Stunfisk is great though, I'm excited to use it. Also rampardos was ridiculously underrated last time it was here, I really liked the mixed sets- there was very little that wasn't 1hko'd by either an earth power/earthquake, ice beam or rock slide, and you still had space for rock polish to clean up.
 
Just out of interest, why have you and Mambo (or just you idk) chosen to make these not effect PUPL? Gary2346
 
Here's a few thoughts:

Stunfisk is great, spdef fisk with SR / EP / Discharge / protect or toxic walls stuff like Electabuzz and Electrode while also being one of the more reliable SR users in the tier. I've decided to pair it up with Metang on offensive teams as Metang can check Articuno and Simisage (kinda) which both beat Stunfisk pretty easily. It fits on most balance/semistall/stall teams pretty easily and can even serve as a pivot on offensive teams for Electabuzz/Electrode since offense generally suffers vs those two and could use another viable SR user.

Rampardos is a great wallbreaker with a lot of different sets, including 4 attacks, 3 attacks RP, or sashlead with SR. It is really slow and has a hard time not being revenge killed by pokemon like Krokorok, Gabite or Simisage so it should be fine in the tier, but with the addition of Rampardos, balance and stall has a hard time pulling off any sort of good defensive cores because Rampardos specializes in ripping them apart along with other breakers like Flareon.

I'll have to do more research into meowstic, I never really used it when it was here and I guess the one obvious niche is prankster screens for offensive teams with setup pokemon, luckily we lost Arbok because Meowstic-M with 8 turn screens + Coil Arbok sounds really devastating, lol. There is still plenty of options for setup pokemon like DD fraxure, Agility Kingler, etc so it's got a lot of potential.

I really like losing Arbok, since I personally believed that Arbok was one of the most broken pokemon in the current metagame having the ability to easily setup on defensive teams (especially with SubCoil) and then break through offensive teams with defensive boosts, Sucker Punch and STAB Gunk Shot. Duosion was cool but I never got the chance to use it, it seemed like a nice CM user or even offensive TR user which could be fun to use but I can't really speak on its effectiveness since I never got the chance to use it.

Losing Simipour was bound to happen eventually based on how good it is in PU right now but it's a drastic change for FU. Simipour was the best offensive Water-type we had and was a huge asset to offensive, being able to break through defensive cores easily especially with Taunt and being damn fast to outspeed most of opposing offensive teams, with great coverage with Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, HP Electric/Grass and Knock Off, not to mention Sub + NP + Salac which is a really cool set too. Losing Simipour means offense loses a fast Water-type and the only other fast offensive water type we have is Swanna, because Golduck needs rain to have speed and doesn't serve the same purpose that Simipour does, not to mention with the same effectiveness. Really sad loss but was inevitable, I guess we'll have to see if Golduck/Politoed/Swanna/Lapras usage goes up as it should in the coming months.
 
First of all, fuck Arbok. All my teams are weak to it so I'm glad that it's gonna be leaving.

I personally never really liked using Simipour, mainly because it's ugly, and always preferred Golduck or Politoed as an offensive Water-type. Its rise has been long overdue so I never really saw the merit in building a bunch of teams with it if they would all eventually be scrapped.

Duosion was actually a really cool Pokemon, functioning almost exactly the same as Reuniclus does in higher tiers. It could hit most Pokemon neutrally, sported fantastic bulk (allowing it to eat a Knock Off or two) and possessed one of the best abilities in the game. Nothing can really replace Duosion though so I'll have to rework a couple of teams :(

Although a lot of people are excited about Stunfisk the most, I'm incredibly stoked for Meowstic. Like so much so that I built two teams last month utilizing Meowstic because I had faith it would drop one day. It has great Speed, solid SpAtk, and both forms have really useful Hidden Abilities in Prankster and Competitive. The latter is actually my favorite as it punishes Defog heavily and the only real Rapid Spinner in the tier (Wartortle) is hit quite hard by Energy Ball / Thunderbolt.
Megazard said:
Just out of interest, why have you and Mambo (or just you idk) chosen to make these not effect PUPL? Gary2346
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I actually didn't have any input on this decision, but I actually think that these changes should be included in PUPL because as I mentioned earlier, "fuck Arbok." It'll also give everybody a chance to play around with the new toys in the most competitive environment FU will have for a while.
GrimoireGod said:
Also more people should join #FU imo. :]
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^
 
I love FU... But not having its own ladder even in non-smogon servers just kinda mess with my patience... I would really love to have my own server but guess what? I have to wait two weeks to have internet again because I moved on to another house...

So... If someone wants to help me, I would love to help FU to have its own ladder! :3

Regarding changes, Arbok has been fluctuating between FU and PU for a long time... I hope that freaking snake just make its home at PU instead because it's really disgusting to face in FU...
Simipour is nice and it was kinda expected to have it out... The one that surprises me was Duosion... Heck, Reuniclus have always been a nice poke and of course Duosion was almost as good, but with a boosted Knock Off and PU been absurdly full of Knock Off users I never thought that could happen...

About the drops, all of them should see some usage since they aren't bad at all... Stunfisk has nice type and bulk and Meowstic can help setup sweepers. Rampardos is harder to use but even better than the other two against slow teams... So... Let's keep pushing! (By the way... We have to win Other Metagame of the Month next time...T_T we were really close...)
 
Okay so the reason I don't want to implement the new changes into PUPL is because I feel like an Arbok/Simipourless meta is a pretty huge difference and it could vastly change the way matches are played. I just don't really want to change shift a meta in the middle of a pretty big tournament. I would love to play a meta where I don't have to prepare for two of the bigger threats in the meta AND play a meta where Buzz is easier to handle/Rampardos is back, but god damn that would change things so much. Sorry, but I just really want to keep PUPL how it is for now, but standard matches will be effected by the changes at least so we can test and shit.

However, I might just make the changes into effect after week 3 so they will be in effect week 4, 5, and the finals, I will discuss with the "council" aka Mambo.

Also some changes to viability rankings because of the changes/general updates (subject to change)

Metang A ---> A+
Quillidin A ---> A+
Swanna A- ---> A
Golduck B+ ---> A
Lapras B+ ---> A-
Politoed B+ ---> A-
Rampardos added to A
Stunfisk added to A-
Kingler A+ ---> A
Zweilous A ---> A-
Meowstic-M added to B+
Meowstic-F added to B-

Most of these changes should be self explanatory because if you've been watching PUPL or after the recent meta shift. The only thing I think that needs explaining is Zweilous dropping to A-, which is solely caused by Clefairy's massive influx in usage. Kingler was dropped because as a sweeper, it faces a bit of competition from Huntail, and while it hits very hard and can break a lot of walls/pave through offensive teams, it's a LOT easier to handle than SS Huntail and not THAT much more versatile, so it shouldn't be a higher rank than Huntail atm.
 
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Rises:
Arboks leaving is going to be annoying cause it was one of the things that could reliably take out Clef, altho i get people like to see it leaving cus it kinda was a threat.

Simipour was p good but not going to miss it too much since there are a lot of water replacements like Golduck Politoed etc.

Duosion was a cool guy especially underrated Acid Armor set which destroyed after Darks were taken care of, but didnt have the biggest influence in the tier.

Drops:
I like Rampardos was missing a good offensive stealth rocker not named Gabite, also big Endeavor fan :).

Stunfisk another cool Rocker addition and Electric type check cause we really need those badly lol gonna use this baby a lot.

I like pussy just not this one.
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Find it kinda weird that Clef didnt rise since its so amazing in PU o well maybe next month he. Will be looking forward to this meta :)

Also Gary2346 put me on council (BAN ME PLEASE)
 
Basically any decently strong Steel- or Poison-type Pokemon, preferably physically based because Calm Mind is annoying, works as long as it is not crippled too much by Thunder Wave. Some Fire-types such as Choice Band Flareon work as well, and if you have a Knock Off user than Clefairy is obviously also much easier to deal with. Especially Klang is nice because it uses Clefairy as complete setup fodder and doesn't care about Thunder Wave at all because of RestTalk and doesn't get worn down by entry hazards either (bulky Gear Grind, Shift Gear, Rest, Sleep Talk).
 
Rennyjesus said:
We all wish that... :s
By thw way... Which things would you recommend me to reliably check or counter Clefairy easily? Maybe besides Seviper and Metang... I want something new but I don't wanna be destroyed by that freaking pixie...
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I'm not very good, but I looked at the calcs for Seviper. Seviper's Sludge Bomb with 252 Special Attack EVs either 2HKOs, or 44% chance to 2HKO, depending if Clefairy is physically or speciallly defensive.
 
PlatinumBlad3 said:
I'm not very good, but I looked at the calcs for Seviper. Seviper's Sludge Bomb with 252 Special Attack EVs either 2HKOs, or 44% chance to 2HKO, depending if Clefairy is physically or speciallly defensive.
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Most Vipers tend to be running Life Orb:

252+ SpA Life Orb Seviper Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 76+ SpD Eviolite Clefairy: 289-343 (84 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That's the most efficient Clefairy spread. The only other spread you should ever run on Clef are more physically defensive ones, or else Fraxure is going to be more of a bitch to deal with. It's true that Arbok was a very cool check to Clefairy that could be slapped on a lot of teams, but there's still plenty of things that can take it on; Lairon, Seviper, LO Simisage, Nasty Plot Simisear, SD Cate, Metang, Flareon, Klang, and QD Butterfree (underrated as fuck and uses it as complete set up fodder with Sleep Powder). Knock Off in general really hurts Clef.

So yeah Clef is still a cheeky bastard but Arbok was by no means the only way of dealing with it.
 
Okay so this may seem like extremely random and out of the blue, but FU is now moving to the PU subforum. We've discussed this with the OM staff, and we decided that FU would fit better in a subforum where a majority of its players reside and how FU is basically PU but with a usage cutoff. I hope this will help silence the shitty drama that always follows FU, especially when OMotM rolls around, so now there shouldn't be any "voting wars" going on anymore.

And on a personal level, I just want to get the fuck out of here. Nothing against the OM community, but ever since I started FU I've always felt like it split the community in half and it caused a lot of issues in the past. Between my fellow buddies and I receiving death threats and FU players often getting lesser treatment in the lobby just because we're not considered "real OM players", I've just had an overall very poor experience with this subforum, and as much as I tried to ignore it, shit always seemed to just come back to me. I hope that us moving will eliminate all these issues and we can all enjoy our own metagames without having to worry about FU and the rest of the OM community clashing again.

Farewell, and I'll see you fellow FU players in the PU subforum!
 
Gary2346 said:
Okay so this may seem like extremely random and out of the blue, but FU is now moving to the PU subforum. We've discussed this with the OM staff, and we decided that FU would fit better in a subforum where a majority of its players reside and how FU is basically PU but with a usage cutoff. I hope this will help silence the shitty drama that always follows FU, especially when OMotM rolls around, so now there shouldn't be any "voting wars" going on anymore.

And on a personal level, I just want to get the fuck out of here. Nothing against the OM community, but ever since I started FU I've always felt like it split the community in half and it caused a lot of issues in the past. Between my fellow buddies and I receiving death threats and FU players often getting lesser treatment in the lobby just because we're not considered "real OM players", I've just had an overall very poor experience with this subforum, and as much as I tried to ignore it, shit always seemed to just come back to me. I hope that us moving will eliminate all these issues and we can all enjoy our own metagames without having to worry about FU and the rest of the OM community clashing again.

Farewell, and I'll see you fellow FU players in the PU subforum!
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qyook
 
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