ORAS FU Metagame Discussion (old)

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Gary

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Thanks Gary... My observations were made really quickly and I missed some pokes... U_U

By the way... Can I use FU forum to talk a little about TU or FU Underused? I was wanting to do another unofficial tier to try giving any FE poke some viability but it was rejected... T_T
Can we do that in this thread?
See ya!
Nah I would prefer you not to. This is for discussing the FU meta only. We don't get much discussion as is, and having it trail off into something different wouldn't help things much.
 
Isn't Electrode a counter to Chatot since it has Soundproof?
Not that I disagree with it being banned, though.

Still, I must say I'd like the drops. Flareon is pretty awesome, not only because of its offenses but also because a specially defensive set walls a lot of stuff.
 
fml bae buck is gone

Flareon looks cool, sp.def and band looks like both can have their uses (sp.def counters specs sear prety good)
Purugley looks like a cool pilot, since defog is less relevant it might be good to run Thick fat instead, it avoids a 2hko from cunos LO Ice beam, but that about it.
Arbok has always been and still is a potent force in the meta
Gogoat is gay
Dodrio looks like a potent wallbreaking with LO+roost, something like BB/Knock/roost/edge|taunt mabye?
 
I really feel that many of those things that we have win, will probably get again onto PU in the next tier shift... They have been oscilling in between... So... I dunno... I'm particularly interested on Dodrio, Flareon and Arbok... They will be useful for sure...
 

Megazard

The turtle moves
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Yeah, idk how long dodrio is staying. But double edge and brave bird are incompatible as are brave bird and baton pass (you can have double edge/baton pass/drill peck though) so idk about that set Yellow Cheese
 

Gary

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Here are some funny lures I've been trying out these past few days:

or

Electabuzz @ Eviolite / Life Orb
Ability: Vital Spirit / Aftermath
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Magnet Rise

Regardless of Electrode dropping, Electabuzz still manages to reign supreme because of its amazing pivoting abilities + interesting movepool. Although there's nothing stopping you from using the same set up with Electrode itself, considering that they both function very similarly. The real differences is that Buzz is used more for its pivoting + insane momentum grabbing while Electrode is arguably a better all out attacker because of its insane Speed stat. Magnet Rise is a cool move that lets both of them take advantage of a number of Pokemon that they normally have trouble with, such as Vibrava, Gabite, and EQ Metang. Vibrava just practically sits there and does nothing, seeing as how it hardly ever has a reason to run another attacking move bar EQ and U-turn; SpD Vibrava normally eats up HP Ice so it's useful to use it when going up against healthy ones. Gabite will be forced to Outrage, allowing you to switch into something to counter it or bop it with HP Ice more safely. Metang will have to resort to using weak Meteor Mashes or Toxic, which allows them to wear down Metang quicker and take advantage of it. It's the defintion of a filler, but both of these Pokemon have a very expendable fourth moveslot, especially Electrode.


Dodrio @ Salac Berry
Ability: Early Bird
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Return
- Knock Off
- Natural Gift

Dodrio is one of the hardest hitting Pokemon in the metagame, but it has one major problem; it's completely boned by Rock- and Steel-types. Unlike Fearow, it lacks Drill Run which prevents it from being a free switch into Gigalith, Lairon, and Bastiodon. However, with a Salac Berry and Natural Gift, it now has a 100 BP Fighting-type move that can deal massive damage to the aftermentioned Pokemon; enough that later on in the match they'll be too worn down to continually switch into Dodrio. Lairon is OHKOed after its Eviolite has been Knocked Off, while SpD Bastiodon takes upwards of ~80%. Gigalith still eats it up pretty comfortably, but in clutch situations, it can still deal very solid damage to it. It's definitely not a meta changing set or anything, but considering that Dodrio hits hard as fuck and most people depend so much on their Rock-types to deal with Dodrio, Natural Gift is sure to give them a surprise.

Also something that's fun to use is Fearow + Dodrio. Fearow has really cool offensive synergy with Dodrio because with Drill Run, Fearow can 2HKO Bastiodon and Lairon; two prime bird checks, while maiming Gigalith. It also carries U-turn which can give Dodrio many free chances to come in for free and wreck shop. Give it a try.
 

Megazard

The turtle moves
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can confirm natural gift dodrio is amazing for the exact same reason in PU but with different rock types and this makes it stupidly hard to deal with
 

Bummer

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So where do you guys hang? All the old links to servers are now dead, and the #xyfu channel doesn't seem to be that active. There's the general OM room on PS, but that's about as general as it gets. Don't know how involved I can get into this, but you'd do well to be clear on how to get involved with this meta so that newer players don't need to keep it all theoretical. I've constructed a few teams together, so if you see me online on PS just shoot me a message and I'll most likely respond. You'll most likely get an easy victory too!
 

EV

Spending daddy's money with an attitude
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So where do you guys hang? All the old links to servers are now dead, and the #xyfu channel doesn't seem to be that active. There's the general OM room on PS, but that's about as general as it gets. Don't know how involved I can get into this, but you'd do well to be clear on how to get involved with this meta so that newer players don't need to keep it all theoretical. I've constructed a few teams together, so if you see me online on PS just shoot me a message and I'll most likely respond. You'll most likely get an easy victory too!
You can usually find a few FUers in the PU room too.
 

Gary

Can be abrasive at times (no joke)
is a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
So where do you guys hang? All the old links to servers are now dead, and the #xyfu channel doesn't seem to be that active. There's the general OM room on PS, but that's about as general as it gets. Don't know how involved I can get into this, but you'd do well to be clear on how to get involved with this meta so that newer players don't need to keep it all theoretical. I've constructed a few teams together, so if you see me online on PS just shoot me a message and I'll most likely respond. You'll most likely get an easy victory too!
Yea a lot of the servers that used to host FU are now permanently down or just removed it entirely. Like Eevee said just chill in the PU room/OM room and ask for some FU battles you're bound to get some.
 

Gary

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I added Mambo to the council. He's been helping me a lot with testing and shit behind the scenes especially with these new drops, and has shown a great interest in the meta. Besides, we have like barely anyone on the council in the first place atm, and we need someone to fill in the gaps.
 

Gary

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SmashPass has been banned in PU, which means that we have to follow suite and ban it as well. RIP Huntail. Oh well, at least it's still a good sweeper but can no longer pass to fucking Frax or Sage anymore.
 
Meganium is ok on stall here with unique access to reliable recovery, phasing and aromatherapy, however unless you really need Dragon Tail or Aromatherapy (status healers are kinda sparse down here so that's actually a decent niche) then you're probably better off with gogoat as a spdef grass type.
 

Gary

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Meganium is bulky it should be in NU or higher
Bulk doesn't mean everything. I mean look at Dusclops; it's bulkier than many Pokemon found in even the Ubers tier, and yet it's all the way down here as well. Meganium is not only completely outclassed by Gogoat, but in general, there's just not much of a reason to use it. Keeping momentum and having a solid offensive presence are both very important aspects of the FU metagame, which is why stall teams are almost non existent. Meganium meet none of those criteria; its attacking stats aren't terrible but not enough to make much of an impact, and its offensive movepool is practically barren. Also outside of Aromatherapy, Gogoat and Quillden are by far better options for their movepools/versatility.
 

Gary

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I updated a few things recently on the VR but didn't really tell anyone. At this point I realize most people don't really care about the VR enough to discuss them, but now the reason I'm still updating them myself is so that people who are actually trying to keep up with the meta/want to learn the meta can learn why these changes are being made. I honestly don't really care at this point if people agree/disagree with the rankings, seeing how dead the meta is. I try as hard as I can to find people who are still interested to test with me so I can continue to make improvements on the meta if need be if we ever were to get a ladder again or if FU was featured in some tour. And I have a lot of time to dedicate to it because outside of FU, I barely play mons anymore in the first place.

Illumise went to B because Volbeat is PU now and Illumise is like the same thing minus Tail Glow Pass which was barely ever used.

Lairon was bumped to A+ because it's easily one of the most useful offensive pivots in the tier at the moment. Dodrio dropping was a huge pain in the ass for offensive teams because it's so damn hard to switch into, but Lairon completely and puts a full stop to it and makes it its bitch. It's also a great check to SD Rat, non Low Kick Fraxure, Persian, Murkrow, non HP Ground Cuno, Zweilous, and Clefairy. Rock Polish and CB sets are also very strong and still retain the ability to check many physical attackers. Its combination of useful resistances on top of its useful defensive and offensive capabilities makes it one of the best pivots in the tier, which as we all know, are incredibly useful to have in this meta.

Dodrio was added to A+ rank as well. While it's completely hard walled by Lairon, Gigalith, and Bastiodon, it hits so god damn hard and can heavily punish any team that doesn't use at least one of the Pokemon I just listed that there's no way it needs to go any lower IMO. Regardless of how good Lairon and Gigalith are on offense, with just a bit of team support and the ability to overwhelm its checks and counters with partners such as Drill Run Fearow or Low Kick Frax, Dodrio is still one of the hardest hitting mons in the tier and is limited to a very limited pull of checks/counters.

I need to test Flareon more but it seems like a solid A- Pokemon, maybe even A. While it is pretty damn slow and has basically no physical bulk, it's got some really nice special bulk and a CB Flare Blitz coming off of 130 Attack is one of the most powerful attacks in the tier, capable of doing 60% minimum to the likes of Kingler who has solid physical bulk. Flash Fire makes Simisear very wary of spamming Fire Blast, as nothing wants to take a Flash Fire boosted Blitz the following turn. Its solid special bulk allows it to somewhat check Buzz and other weaker special attackers, so it definitely has quite a few opportunities to come in and wreck. I could see a SpD set finding some success on bulkier teams as well.

Electrode is not nearly as amazing as I thought it would be, but it's still a very solid Pokemon and has a niche over E-Buzz for its ability to outspeed the entire boosted tier and then some, such as SS Huntail and RP Lairon as well as most Choice Scarf Pokemon. It also gets Taunt, which is one of the best moves in FU and on an offensive Pokemon like Electrode, can give teams a lot of trouble. In general, it is mostly superior to Buzz in a all out offensive role. A seems perfect for it.

Some other small things. Because Prinplup is gone, Tortle moved up to A- because it is easily the most reliable hazard remover in the tier, and its CounterCoat sets are very annoying to deal with. Huntail moved down a rank seeing as how it can no longer pass its SS boosts, but it still remains a very strong sweeper. Metang moved back up to A rank because it's yet another amazing offensive pivot that checks a lot of top tier threats and can get up SR very reliably. Steel-types in general are just very useful at the moment.
 
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Gary

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Fuck my schedule is so god damn wack I might not even be able to sign up for my own damn tier :[ Oh well all the matters to me is that FU is finally getting the love it deserves. Also, make sure to check out the most recent usage stats before making your FU teams, as a lot of past Pokemon that were used on the ladder back in January are now PU, banned, or newcomers to the tier.

Also I'm going to make a long ass post and add it to the OP. It's basically going to be an in depth explanation of the current meta and what's good/bad and shit. This will hopefully help a lot of the obvious newcomers to the tier so they can get a good idea of the meta in order for them to build good teams and shit, so people don't try and use gay ass stall which is unviable as fuck in this tier. I'll post about it when I'm done.

But yeah have fun guys.
 
Is there an actual list of all the pokemon that are in the tier. Because there is no perma ladder on Showdown so that isn't giving me any indicators.

Its just that there are some pokemon that I think would have a solid niche in this tier but can't see whether they are PU or FU.

EDIT: Is it safe to asume anything D-E rank or unlisted on the PU viability rankings is in FU?
 
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Martin

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Just gonna ask this: why isn't Venipede ranked? While it may seem outclassed by Whirlipede (y'know, cause Whirli is the next evo), it is faster than its evo, having enough speed to outpace Taunt Simipour at +1 - allowing it to get a layer of hazards down v.s. it before it gets Taunted (a feat which Whirlipede would need to rely on a double protect for v.s. Simi leads)
 

Gary

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Its just that there are some pokemon that I think would have a solid niche in this tier but can't see whether they are PU or FU.

EDIT: Is it safe to asume anything D-E rank or unlisted on the PU viability rankings is in FU?
There's a threatlist and a Viability ranking thread in the OP.

Just gonna ask this: why isn't Venipede ranked? While it may seem outclassed by Whirlipede (y'know, cause Whirli is the next evo), it is faster than its evo, having enough speed to outpace Taunt Simipour at +1 - allowing it to get a layer of hazards down v.s. it before it gets Taunted (a feat which Whirlipede would need to rely on a double protect for v.s. Simi leads)
If something isn't ranked, than it hasn't been properly tested. Besides while Taunt Simipour may be common in PU, it's not THAT common in FU, so the extra Speed isn't entirely significant.
 
There's a threatlist and a Viability ranking thread in the OP.



If something isn't ranked, than it hasn't been properly tested. Besides while Taunt Simipour may be common in PU, it's not THAT common in FU, so the extra Speed isn't entirely significant.
So everything on the threat list and/or Viability rankings is FU and nothing else? That's hard to believe.
 

Megazard

The turtle moves
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So everything on the threat list and/or Viability rankings is FU and nothing else? That's hard to believe.
He said mons not on there just havent been properly tested, but I very much doubt things not on there have any sort of niche worth using competitively (i.e. Unknown).

About Venipede, the things that it beats that are important in PU that Whirlipede doesn't are Frogadier, Dodrio, the Simis, Kadabra, Jumpluff and Raichu (there are others but they don't prevent spikes with sleep/encore/taunt). Those just aren't in FU, making Whirlipede's extra bulk better.
 

Gary

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So everything on the threat list and/or Viability rankings is FU and nothing else? That's hard to believe.
Unless I forgot something, practically anything that has some competitive worth is on that list. Anything stupid like Magikarp, alphabet soup, and otherwise extremely outclassed Pokemon such as Furret are not included. I don't see a point in including everything if they're not viable anyway.


 

kay

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Nominating Swirlix from Unranked ---> B/B+




Swirlix @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
Happiness: 0
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Play Rough
- Frustration
- Protect


So this thing is actually a very devastating threat in the FU metagame. After a +6 boost it cleanly ohkos every offensive threat in the metagame, and 2hkos all walls in the tier such as Clefairy and Dusclops. After the unburden boost it hits a speedy 394 speed stat. The fairy typing also keeps Fraxure from spamming it's main STAB in outrage, due to Swirlix getting a free belly drum off it. I have found this works best with Memento support, but it's worth the support. This thing can clean late game without any issues once you drop a memento. The only issue are the 3 steel types in FU that give this trouble, but after they have been weakened slurpuff can still clean late game. Protect is also used to dodge Persians Fake Out.

Heres a replay I had to show it off in action - http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pu-235015326
 
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