Other ORAS Metagame Discussion

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I actually find Starmie less effective in this metagame tbh. Bulky Reflect Type was already a great set in XY OU, but now with all the faster stuff+the fact that Sableye completely and utterly stops it meaning that you'll never get rocks off vs stall it's not nearly as reliable is it was.

I don't see how the faster mons have anything to do with its effectiveness and you're forgetting that Bulky Starmie rapid spins on almost any hazard setter in OU. Mega Sabeleye is a thing, but one mon isn't the end of the world; teammates, bruh

It also beats Keldeo 1v1 which is extremely common right now
 
Scarf Hydreigon has been good for me in dealing with Mega Latias. 252 Spe / 252 SpA, hits it s.e. with three different moves, Draco/Dark Pulse/U-Turn with two being STAB and one being a pivot move. I think Hydreigon definitely has a solid place in this Metagame
 
also idk if anyone mentioned this yet but MAero is ridiculously good. No-one prepares for it at all and it just stomps over so many teams. Checks all of the fast megas and is one of the best answers to MMence there is.
What set is the "best" set for this meta for Mega Aerodactyl, as far as EVs, nature, moveset, that you have found?
 
I would imagine 252 adamant attack, and enough speed to ensure it gets over that 427 benchmark set by the 252+ speed base 145Mons.
Just on a few calcs I'd run.
Aerodactyl-Mega EVs: 244 Atk / 48 Def / 216 Spe Jolly Nature

Enough speed to outspeed positive natured base 145. The defense is for. +1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 191-225 (63.4 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and in return 244 Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Ice Fang vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 308-364 (93 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO or 244 Atk Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 270-318 (81.5 - 96%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
 
I would imagine 252 adamant attack, and enough speed to ensure it gets over that 427 benchmark set by the 252+ speed base 145Mons.
Adamant base 150 speed maxes out at 399 speed. To outspeed Timid Sceptile and Jolly Beedrill you have to run Jolly yourself.

As far as movesets go, the options are pretty much the same. I haven't used Stallbreaker Aero in a while, but I would assume it still plays similarly. Mega Slowbro is a huge threat to it, but regular Slowbro was as well. An increase in unevolved Sableye doesn't help, but once it's Mega evolved it's no threat (I think. I'll run calcs later). Outside of that, Roost+3 attacks, Claws+3 attacks, and Claws+Roost+2 attacks are pretty much the options. Stone Edge and Aerial Ace are still the top two options for offensive moves. Outside of that, EQ hits Diancie and Metagross, and Crunch hits MSlowbro and Metagross, and Mega Lati@s. Everything else from before is more or less the same as far as coverage.
 
Adamant base 150 speed maxes out at 399 speed. To outspeed Timid Sceptile and Jolly Beedrill you have to run Jolly yourself.

As far as movesets go, the options are pretty much the same. I haven't used Stallbreaker Aero in a while, but I would assume it still plays similarly. Mega Slowbro is a huge threat to it, but regular Slowbro was as well. An increase in unevolved Sableye doesn't help, but once it's Mega evolved it's no threat (I think. I'll run calcs later). Outside of that, Roost+3 attacks, Claws+3 attacks, and Claws+Roost+2 attacks are pretty much the options. Stone Edge and Aerial Ace are still the top two options for offensive moves. Outside of that, EQ hits Diancie and Metagross, and Crunch hits MSlowbro and Metagross, and Mega Lati@s. Everything else from before is more or less the same as far as coverage.

Yeah Crunch is probably a good idea in the ORAS metagame as opposed to the XY metagame.
 
Just on a few calcs I'd run.
Aerodactyl-Mega EVs: 244 Atk / 48 Def / 216 Spe Jolly Nature

Enough speed to outspeed positive natured base 145. The defense is for. +1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 191-225 (63.4 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and in return 244 Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Ice Fang vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 308-364 (93 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO or 244 Atk Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 270-318 (81.5 - 96%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Is... is that a successful attempt at a MegaMence counter?
 
Don't send him in until it's mega mence killing time. He's the fastest unboosted Mon in existence, at least competitively. He oughta be in good shape prior to mence hitting the scene to put in the hurt. On the switch in, ice fang #1 hits, he evolves and goes DD, then on his second turn his speed hits you and BAM ice fang kills mega Mence. Then roost up when the opponent sends in the next to die.
 
Is... is that a successful attempt at a MegaMence counter?
It's a strong check. It can't come in on +1 Return because it's outsped after a DD. It can switch-in on the DD, but not after. That's also assuming Mence isn't running Dragon moves. I know it's not common right now, but Dragon STAB moves are still out there. Bulky DD Mence sets also survive the confrontation, although not without some damage.

+1 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 191-225 (63.4 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
244 Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Ice Fang vs. 136 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 308-364 (84.3 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It's a good check but by no means a hard counter.
 
It is, but in battle you better be careful to keep that motherfucker healthy

On a more general note (and apologies to anyone who may have mentioned this earlier... tl;dr) with the fact that their are 7 new megas (Pidgeot, Beedrill, Altaria, Sceptile, Lati@s, Salamence) that can be hit SE by a Tough Claws Ice Fang from MegaAero; that you would almost have to be on drugs to NOT use Ice Fang.

Just saying... but yea as someone mentioned earlier, MegaAero is something that not many people take into consideration, however, you need to build a really strong team around him as MegaAero still leaves ALOT to be desired in other aspects. (Primarily paper-thin defenses -.-)
 
Is... is that a successful attempt at a MegaMence counter?

Shaky check at best. It can't switch in because it's outsped by +1 Mence and solidly 2HKO'd by return, even with the defensive investment. Return'll OHKO after rocks on a crit, and has a chance even without one if the Mence has an attack-positive nature. Thrash and Double-Edge just OHKO straight-up after rocks.

Aero isn't going to take DClaw after rocks, or Outrage at all.

Best-case, Aerodactyl can just barely bulk Return even with rocks on the field and OHKO handily with either Stone Edge or Ice Fang, but it's a rather fragile scenario.
 
On a more general note (and apologies to anyone who may have mentioned this earlier... tl;dr) with the fact that their are 7 new megas (Pidgeot, Beedrill, Altaria, Sceptile, Lati@s, Salamence) that can be hit SE by a Tough Claws Ice Fang from MegaAero; that you would almost have to be on drugs to NOT use Ice Fang.

Just saying... but yea as someone mentioned earlier, MegaAero is something that not many people take into consideration, however, you need to build a really strong team around him as MegaAero still leaves ALOT to be desired in other aspects. (Primarily paper-thin defenses -.-)

beedrill aint weak to ice
 
On a more general note (and apologies to anyone who may have mentioned this earlier... tl;dr) with the fact that their are 7 new megas (Pidgeot, Beedrill, Altaria, Sceptile, Lati@s, Salamence) that can be hit SE by a Tough Claws Ice Fang from MegaAero; that you would almost have to be on drugs to NOT use Ice Fang.

Just saying... but yea as someone mentioned earlier, MegaAero is something that not many people take into consideration, however, you need to build a really strong team around him as MegaAero still leaves ALOT to be desired in other aspects. (Primarily paper-thin defenses -.-)
I think the reason people don't consider MegaAero has other reasons:
It lacks reliable offensive moves (mostly good STAB that takes advantage of its ability) which makes people to think twice before wasting a Mega Slot for it.
I mean you have Stone Miss and Elemental Fangs with poor accuracy (low base power is balanced out with Tough Claw) and often rely more on supporting moves and offensively either Earthquake, Aerial Ace or both.
 
About Aero v. Mence, just a note that Rock Tomb+Ice Fang can OHKO virtually every Salamence spread even with 0 attack EVs (252/0 takes minimum of 98.9%.) Rock Tomb obviously lowers speed so you get to move twice; the only way they can avoid losing is they DD when you Rock Tomb but I haven't seen anyone do this.

I used to run of SDef investment to avoid 2HKO from Y-zard by Y-zard isn't very common right now so I have full physical bulk, with 56+ speed to outrun Mega Pinsir before mega evolve (you're also much faster than . 248/204 Aero has a chance to survive even Adamant +1 Outrage, but it has to be at full health. Fortunately I haven't see many of these.

Oh yeah and Aero threatens a large number of the new megas. It's actually pretty good.
 
beedrill aint weak to ice

Still gets its teeth knocked in by either of Aero's stabs (or even just ice fang if there's rocks down), and can't really do daniels even if it does manage to get a hit off.

LOL My bad... but everything Wimblesaurus said was true so thanks mate ^_^

I think the reason people don't consider MegaAero has other reasons:
It lacks reliable offensive moves (mostly good STAB that takes advantage of its ability) which makes people to think twice before wasting a Mega Slot for it.
I mean you have Stone Miss and Elemental Fangs with poor accuracy (low base power is balanced out with Tough Claw) and often rely more on supporting moves and offensively either Earthquake, Aerial Ace or both.

I agree with those points... but that still doesn't excuse you as a team builder from simply ignoring this guy either... don't get me wrong... I've seen random sh!t win against very well-built teams but concepts like TR teams vs. losing to one mon like MegaAero are two different things entirely.
 
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On a more general note (and apologies to anyone who may have mentioned this earlier... tl;dr) with the fact that their are 7 new megas (Pidgeot, Beedrill, Altaria, Sceptile, Lati@s, Salamence) that can be hit SE by a Tough Claws Ice Fang from MegaAero; that you would almost have to be on drugs to NOT use Ice Fang.

Just saying... but yea as someone mentioned earlier, MegaAero is something that not many people take into consideration, however, you need to build a really strong team around him as MegaAero still leaves ALOT to be desired in other aspects. (Primarily paper-thin defenses -.-)
Do you realize that out of these six megas(Beedrill isn't weak to Ice) three of them are weak to one of your STAB? And that Altaria and Latias are bulky enough to shrug off Ice Fang with little conseguences?
I'm honestly not a fan of Ice Fang on Aerodactyl, it actually hits so little other than Garchomp(Landorus and Gliscor take a fuckton from Aqua Tail). Aqua Tail also hits Hippowdon as well as most targets of Earthquake(Heatran, Tyranitar, Excadrill, Terrakion, Camerupt etc.), while if you are concerned about the twins Crunch does more to them on top of actually being able to do something to Slowbro(still only a 3hko at best though) as well as Mew.
 
Do you realize that out of these six megas(Beedrill isn't weak to Ice) three of them are weak to one of your STAB? And that Altaria and Latias are bulky enough to shrug off Ice Fang with little conseguences?
I'm honestly not a fan of Ice Fang on Aerodactyl, it actually hits so little other than Garchomp(Landorus and Gliscor take a fuckton from Aqua Tail). Aqua Tail also hits Hippowdon as well as most targets of Earthquake(Heatran, Tyranitar, Excadrill, Terrakion, Camerupt etc.), while if you are concerned about the twins Crunch does more to them on top of actually being able to do something to Slowbro(still only a 3hko at best though) as well as Mew.

Not to go on a tangent... but MegaBro is so FRIGGIN' bulky that its damn near illegal... but all of MegaAero's best moves with the exception of Aerial Ace suffer from possibly missing (as Aqua Tail has 90 accuracy as well) but as mertyville mentioned, MegaAero's moves are limited with respect to what takes advantage of tough claws... which really sucks...

It would've been really nice if Game Freak gave the Elemental Fangs a buff of 5-10 BP... one can only dream...
 
On a more general note (and apologies to anyone who may have mentioned this earlier... tl;dr) with the fact that their are 7 new megas (Pidgeot, Beedrill, Altaria, Sceptile, Lati@s, Salamence) that can be hit SE by a Tough Claws Ice Fang from MegaAero; that you would almost have to be on drugs to NOT use Ice Fang.
STABs hit Mence, Beedrill, Sceptile and Pidgeot super effetctively, so you're not going to be using Ice Fang against those anyway. Heck, even against Mega Altaria, Hone Claws Aero only leaves 10% on the table using Stone Edge over Ice Fang. STAB Stone Edge comes close enough damage-wise, and after Hone Claws the accuracy difference doesn't mean much. If I need to hit the Lati@s Megas, you might as well run Crunch, that hits them for more damage while allowing you to hit Slowbro and Metagross as well. It's moves aren't limited by what can take advantage of Tough Claw either. Stone Edge and Earthquake are both perfectly useable on Mega Aero, and they don't get the boost. Hone Claws is also a great move for Aero because it patches the accuracy on every move perfectly after one boost. 4 attacks Mega Aero really isn't that good tbh. I really only run Hone Claws+3 attacks and Hone Claws+Roost+2 attacks, and accuracy isn't really an issue on those sets.
 
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STABs hit Mence, Beedrill, Sceptile and Pidgeot super effetctively, so you're not going to be using Ice Fang against those anyway. Heck, even against Mega Altaria, Hone Claws Aero only leaves 10% on the table. STAB Stone Edge comes close enough damage-wise, and after Hone Claws the accuracy difference doesn't mean much. If I need to hit the Lati@s Megas, you might as well run Crunch, that hits them for more damage while allowing you to hit Slowbro and Metagross as well. It's moves aren't limited by what can take advantage of Tough Claw either. Stone Edge and Earthquake are both perfectly useable on Mega Aero, and they don't get the boost. Tough Claws is also a great move for Aero because it patches the accuracy on every move perfectly after one boost.

Guessing you mean Hone Claws... but otherwise agree with this as well. Really like Rock Tomb as a move on MegaAero too... ^_^
 
Here are a couple of mons which are pretty anti-meta right now.


empoleon.gif


Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Scald
- Defog
- Roar

With Greninja being one of the most threatening mons in OU thanks to gunk shot move tutor in ORAS, Empoleon becomes one of the best defensive checks for it. Thanks to its typing and very good special bulk, it's reliably able to take any hit from Greninja, the most threatening move from it being grass knot which does 27-32%. Seeing as grass knot is sub optimal at the moment anyway, Empoleon shouldn't have anything to worry about when facing it. Emp can also check with a number of the new threats including cm mega latias, cm slowbro, diancie, sub dd salamence and a few others.

spiritomb.gif

Spiritomb @ Leftovers
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Foul Play
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
- Pursuit / Filler

Physically defensive spiritomb is a really nice check to sub dd salamence, gengar, mega latias and a load of physical attackers in general. With its infiltrator ability, tomb can easily pick sub dd salamence off with a will-o wisp or with a foul play after taking any one hit. Many of the core using mega latias focus on using fighting types to pressure dark types but by virtue of tomb's ghost typing, it can stay as a check for mega latias without having to be worried about getting nailed by a fighting move. With gengar being one of the most powerful mons at the moment, the fact that the most gar can do is hit tomb for neutral damage is really nice as well and nailing it with a pursuit is really really easy. There are also a number of powerful physical attackers at the moment which tomb can blast with a STAB foul play such as gallade, scarf landorus t, swampert, beedrill etc. I'm not saying tomb is a fantastic mon but i think it has a couple of good niches within the oras metagame.
 
Here are a couple of mons which are pretty anti-meta right now.


empoleon.gif


Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Scald
- Defog
- Roar

With Greninja being one of the most threatening mons in OU thanks to gunk shot move tutor in ORAS, Empoleon becomes one of the best defensive checks for it. Thanks to its typing and very good special bulk, it's reliably able to take any hit from Greninja, the most threatening move from it being grass knot which does 27-32%. Seeing as grass knot is sub optimal at the moment anyway, Empoleon shouldn't have anything to worry about when facing it. Emp can also check with a number of the new threats including cm mega latias, cm slowbro, diancie, sub dd salamence and a few others.

spiritomb.gif

Spiritomb @ Leftovers
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Foul Play
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
- Pursuit / Filler

Physically defensive spiritomb is a really nice check to sub dd salamence, gengar, mega latias and a load of physical attackers in general. With its infiltrator ability, tomb can easily pick sub dd salamence off with a will-o wisp or with a foul play after taking any one hit. Many of the core using mega latias focus on using fighting types to pressure dark types but by virtue of tomb's ghost typing, it can stay as a check for mega latias without having to be worried about getting nailed by a fighting move. With gengar being one of the most powerful mons at the moment, the fact that the most gar can do is hit tomb for neutral damage is really nice as well and nailing it with a pursuit is really really easy. There are also a number of powerful physical attackers at the moment which tomb can blast with a STAB foul play such as gallade, scarf landorus t, swampert, beedrill etc. I'm not saying tomb is a fantastic mon but i think it has a couple of good niches within the oras metagame.
Low Kick 2HKOs Empoleon.
 
Do you realize that out of these six megas(Beedrill isn't weak to Ice) three of them are weak to one of your STAB? And that Altaria and Latias are bulky enough to shrug off Ice Fang with little conseguences?
I'm honestly not a fan of Ice Fang on Aerodactyl, it actually hits so little other than Garchomp(Landorus and Gliscor take a fuckton from Aqua Tail). Aqua Tail also hits Hippowdon as well as most targets of Earthquake(Heatran, Tyranitar, Excadrill, Terrakion, Camerupt etc.), while if you are concerned about the twins Crunch does more to them on top of actually being able to do something to Slowbro(still only a 3hko at best though) as well as Mew.

Only physically defensive altaria's. Offensive variants can't shrug off an ice fang for shit, not even bulky offensive variants can.

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Ice Fang vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Altaria: 194-230 (66.6 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And if the altaria is running max HP

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Altaria: 194-230 (54.8 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
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