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Other ORAS Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter alexwolf
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Guilty myself haha. It's been helpful against a lot of the new megas with so many of them having a Fairy weakness and bonus to it's STAB Hyper Voice ignoring Subs screwing over Megas like Lopunny, Gallade and Sceptile who put one out on a switch as Sylveon comes in.
So true. After my Hydreigon and Metagross core, I've been trying to make a core with mega gallade, Porygon2, and sylveon to cover all new threats. I still want to test it a little more, but so far it covers the metagame really well. Pokemon like Talonflame and mega salamence die to porygon 2, sylveon covers the ever annoying mega salamence and altaria that threaten gallade, and then mega gallade is my sweeper of choice that can take out entire teams one p2 and sylveon take out its checks and counters.
Yeah you dont know what you are talking about, just because you heard some tournament players say gothitelle is bad doesnt mean its bad on the ladder. Many teams at the top of the ladder have gothitelle on them, and its for a reason. Its good. It has the ability to completely beat ferrorthorn,mew, clefable, heatran, cresselia, alomomola, porygon 2, amoongus, venusaur, chansey, skarmory, the list could go on. Not only can it beat these pokemon, but it can do so and end up with full health and its scarf back to do it again. It is just ignorant to say that its a bad set just because it is "deadweight" against offense(if you count beating keldeo deadweight).
The purpose of gothitelle isnt typically to stall break even, I know that when I use it it is mainly to beat stallbreakers, like mew or clefable, but even if those mons arent on the team you bet your ass there will be a ferrothorn or heatran, although Ill give you that it doesnt always beat heatran, but at least it can give it the scarf. But yeah Im done, gothitelle has a very effective role in OU, end of story.
Not bad but I wouldn't risk switching Sylveon in on most Mega Salamences since it usually DDs on switch.
+1 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Sylveon: 343-405 (87 - 102.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Sylveon: 229-270 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
So even if doesn't DD it can just use Return twice before Sylveon can do anything. Switching in will in most cases will just get your poor Sylveon sacked.
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yeah if you actually read my post this wouldn't have been necessary
i literally never said gothitelle is bad, i said that set was bad and a waste of a pokemon, as in, hint hint, gothitelle is a good pokemon but that's a bad set, as you sacrifice much appreciated coverage for the sake of longevity on a mon that doesn't need even need it. i never said gothitelle was bad, i said the trickrest set was, so next time you go on a rant try to have an idea of what exactly the reason is, friendo, or even if there is one. and as for defending the set idk why you're doing that, it isn't good, use trick + 3 attacks
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I'm defending the trick rest set, everything I said still applies
Been using Mega Latios lately and it's actually a lot better than base Latios. Not too afraid of Knock Off as much and no Life Orb recoil + the added bulk really helps. So if your team doesn't really benefit from another Mega which is actually dumb to say with things like Mega Mence around lol than Mega Latios is actually pretty good. Been using Dragon Pulse on it as opposed to Draco Meteor and haven't really missed DM as it helps against things trying to Recover on the DM and things like that. Also DM forces you out after switching which Dragon Pulse doesn't. Haven't used the DD set but I'm curious if it's that viable.
the trick + 3 attacks set can either beat or cripple all of the threats you mentioned in the trickrest set, except the difference is 3 attacks can actually beat all of them whereas trickrest lacks the coverage needed to do so, or at least efficiently. seriously, what does rest do? let you outstall chansey and kill it 1v1, or take 16 turns to drain the pp of mew's knock offs, aka things it shouldn't be doing anyway? against stallmons/stallbreakers, once you've tricked away the specs/scarf, the job is done, and goth has no reason to stay in on something unless it can easily and immediately kill it, as is the case with skarmory and ferrothorn. rest does next to nothing except help the lazy more reliably beat stall mons 1v1 and that's about it. rest on gothitelle makes little sense to me and if anything is counterproductive to its effectiveness.
Trickrest is a ladder gimmick, and it's one that multiple players have used to success.
If you need to get rid of chansey, among some other mons like alomomola, then it will get the job done.
the issue is that it is the most matchup-reliant set in the game. That being said, it can get you up the ladder, because laddering =/= tournament play and ladder tricks, while ineffective in many games, can lead to success on the ladder itself
A crippled chansey can still give latios a bit of hell in terms of chip damage. If you get rid of it completely (typically the main source of special defense on the team, and a mon that is supposed to have huge longevity), then you have free rain for ninja/latios/etc. to come in and dismantle the opposing team. Though very situational, it is a lovely win condition.
If you need to get rid of chansey, among some other mons like alomomola, then it will get the job done.
the issue is that it is the most matchup-reliant set in the game. That being said, it can get you up the ladder, because laddering =/= tournament play and ladder tricks, while ineffective in many games, can lead to success on the ladder itself
A crippled chansey can still give latios a bit of hell in terms of chip damage. If you get rid of it completely (typically the main source of special defense on the team, and a mon that is supposed to have huge longevity), then you have free rain for ninja/latios/etc. to come in and dismantle the opposing team. Though very situational, it is a lovely win condition.
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Now you're acting like I said trick + 3 attacks is bad. All I'm saying is trick rest is being used effectively on the ladder and has the added benefit of being able to kill a stall /stallbreaker and then get it's scarf back(in most cases) and can proceed to do the same thing to another mon. I don't know if it's better or worse, but it definitely doesn't deserve to be called a complete waste of a pokemon.
On the mega Latios note, it seems pretty lack luster. Especially with mega latias being borderline broken. It certainly isn't bad, but seems completely out classed by mega mence and metagross. Maybe even by altaria
Mega Latias, compared to Gross at least, has the bulk as her main usage point, whereas it's more a bonus for Metagross.
The latter uses it to either find set up chances or to shrug off weak coverage moves while sweeping/wallbreaking.
Latias's bulk is used for the purpose of outright tanking or walling, if not CM set up and such. Metagross would still be effective, just less so, if it didn't get the bulk boost. Mega Latias would have no niche compared to Latios, her base self, etc. without that ridiculous bulk.
Oh since we're talking about mega latias again I think I shud requote myself:
"http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/orasou-179790314
+6 0 SpA Mega Latias Stored Power (260 BP) vs. +6 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 408-480 (103.5 - 121.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
So cm mega latias beats cm clefable 1v1....
That crit at the end didn't even make the slightest difference...."
Yeah this thing is disgustingly good.
As far as mega latios goes: it's better than the LO set, but not better enough (if that makes sense) to warrant wasting ur megaslot.
"http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/orasou-179790314
+6 0 SpA Mega Latias Stored Power (260 BP) vs. +6 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 408-480 (103.5 - 121.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
So cm mega latias beats cm clefable 1v1....
That crit at the end didn't even make the slightest difference...."
Yeah this thing is disgustingly good.
As far as mega latios goes: it's better than the LO set, but not better enough (if that makes sense) to warrant wasting ur megaslot.
Which is why you have support. That's all mLatias needs to be successful as a stored power user.
Everything is dead weight until you get rid of the things that beat it. Thats why you run things that are capable of beating those things.
Oh I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying that's what I don't like about the set and you still have to deal with hyper offense and setting up enough before they kill you which is another thing to keep in mind. Stored Power Mega Latias does great against slower paced teams and drizzle teams though.
Not to the extent of Stored Power Latias.
Also dark types are basically just tyranitar bisharp greninja which only sometimes runs dark pulse and if doesn't will change its type letting you beat it. All of which are easy to wear down.
Also the occasional megados, Crawdaunt, and weavile.
Only real problem is mega sabeleye
Well if we're talking about dark types, ttar needs crunch in order to actually stop mlatias (otherwise it sets up on ttar, effortlessly) So just burn/toxic it and cm away
After a few Calm Minds ninja isn't anything to worry about either.
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. +2 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 117-140 (32.2 - 38.5%) -- 94.9% chance to 3HKO
So u truly only have to worry about mega sableye, mandibuzz, weavile, megados, crawdaunt and bisharp. So just carry a clefable and that's already half covered, carry a keldeo/chesnaught and you're done.
After a few Calm Minds ninja isn't anything to worry about either.
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. +2 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 117-140 (32.2 - 38.5%) -- 94.9% chance to 3HKO
So u truly only have to worry about mega sableye, mandibuzz, weavile, megados, crawdaunt and bisharp. So just carry a clefable and that's already half covered, carry a keldeo/chesnaught and you're done.
The point Gloating is trying to make (which I've heard several others make before) is that if Mega Latias can't find a window to set-up, it literally can't do anything. Sure, it can set-up on a lot of things, but it can't set-up on everything as easily as some make it sound. Not to mention it does have several legitimate strong checks outside of "just some Dark types." Other, non-Dark type checks include SD Mega Scizor, Azumarill, Mega Altaria, Mega Metagross, and Perish Song Celebi. Psychic isn't exactly a great attacking type either. Mega Latias honestly sounds like a broken theorymon that is just really, really good in practice.
It doesn't matter that Psychic is not a great attacking type. Even resists are 2HKO'd after a few Calm Minds.
ParaFlinch Jirachi can also be bad news for Mega Latias. It's gonna take a lot of CMs to overcome that 100/100 4x Psychic resist and Jirachi is way more likely to gimp you in this process. Meta Megagross may also be a problem if it gets an Attack boost from Meteor Mash. Agility versions also have the benefit of flinching with Iron Head.
Seconding on Trick+3 attacks = ideal set for Gothitelle
I even used Specs+HP Ground to beat heatran and Magnezone, Psychic still beats shit like Keldeo and Quag and weakens like Conkeldurr, Clefable (after tricking scarf), Sylveon, some random megas, etc. etc. and Thunderbolt hits Skarm and Azu really hard. Ofc Trick/HP Ground/Thunderbolt/Psychic doesn't beat Ferrothorn, but, depending on my team's need, I usually switch HP ground and HP fire around, HP Fire is equally good, getting rid of Ferrothorn and still being able to weaken Magnezone.
I even used Specs+HP Ground to beat heatran and Magnezone, Psychic still beats shit like Keldeo and Quag and weakens like Conkeldurr, Clefable (after tricking scarf), Sylveon, some random megas, etc. etc. and Thunderbolt hits Skarm and Azu really hard. Ofc Trick/HP Ground/Thunderbolt/Psychic doesn't beat Ferrothorn, but, depending on my team's need, I usually switch HP ground and HP fire around, HP Fire is equally good, getting rid of Ferrothorn and still being able to weaken Magnezone.
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